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Unread 03-11-2012, 03:38 AM   #1
anabolic1979
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Default On suboxone/subutex 6 years.. Having issues

Hi I dont want to write a ton so I'll keep it short.. I'm a 32 year old man and unfortunately have been on bupe for 6 years now. I started on suboxone to detox fron oxys because I was told that it will be easy and painless to come off. For the first year or so I only needed 2 mg a day and honestly I should have been tapered off by my doc at the time but I didn't know better. I was being told to stay on it and he raised my dose over the corse of the next 3 years till I was taking 16-24mg a day. The suboxone was making me very sick and after having to switch doctors was put on subutex. It made a big difference and I felt a lot better and was able to get back down to 8mg on my own despite the new doc prescribing 32mg daily. Well ive been wanting off for a long time and tried before and it was a nightmare that seemed to never end. A few months ago I noticed a strong urge to take more than I ever needed or wanted to take. I end up taking the whole 32mg a day sometimes 40mg(the script calls for 4 a day and 1 as needed) even though it does nothing for me that I notice anyway. Now I'm caught in this cycle and need to get back on track and lower my dose. I'm afraid that my long term high doses have left me needing these doses. I don't feel my doses like I used to in previous years. So it's not like im getting anything out of the higher dose. Anyone have any advice or thoughts on why I'm compelled to take that extra dose all of a sudden these past few months? Also I did go from name brand suboxone to name brand subutex than had to go on the generic tex not soon after the problem began..
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Unread 03-11-2012, 08:03 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi anabolic1979, sorry to hear that you're having problems with increasing your dose. Is there something going on in your life that is making you feel compelled to try to self-medicate?

Most people reduce their dose as time goes on in their recovery. A couple of things that might be helpful. With Suboxone, there is a ceiling effect which means that after a certain point (thought to average 8 to 12 mg) taking more than needed doesn't do anything except increase any side effects or cause new ones, like lethargy, depression, bad constipation to name a few. And if you're paying cash, it's a colossal waste of money.

At the right dose - the lowest that stops cravings and withdrawals - you're really not supposed to 'feel' anything. Could it be you're trying to get whatever you felt before back and that's why you're taking more?

Have you done anything in addition to taking the medication - counseling or groups, etc. Taking the medication alone isn't considered treatment.

My opinion is that it's rather irresponsible for your doctor to prescribing 32mg and 1 extra as needed. Especially after you only needing 2mg a day.

Think about not taking that extra 1 and formulate a plan to taper down. You also have to find out why you're compelled to take more than you need.

I hope this is helpful. Let us know.

Nancy
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Unread 03-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #3
gotoffmdone
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Nacy has hit on something. Your addiction is talking to you and even though it is the little man dressed in red with horns on one shoulder telling you that if one or two Subutexes is ok, three or four has to be better. On the other shoulder is the the antithesis of the voice that promted you to post this and ose the question.

Just the fact you did post this, IMO, indicates the answer lies in your question itself. Taking more Sub though who are not getting anything out of it, means Sub is working as intended. But its your addictive nature to anything opiate wise that makes you feel more is best, and that use to be the case. But Sub has put an end to that.

I will be the first to admit it would be nice to get that warm fuzzy energetic opiate feeling taking a drug like Sub that you could get every day but then chances are you would not be taking a drug with the celing effect of Sub. And at its cost you may eventually have to sell all you possessions and maybe even your soul just to maintain. And we all know what a horrible existence that can be. Thats why they came up with Sub in the first place.

I am bad about telling myself I should have stopped this or that long ago. But I go all the way back to that very first couple of hydrocodone tabs my mom had way before Sub came out. I wish I had not taken those pills just to see what they would do and in insight I wish they had made me feel like hell or made me sick. I wish I had not gone to the very first for 28 days(that particular rehab) or that I had gotten on Methadone.

All you can do not is reclalibrate yourself and your dose and get back to the levels you were at. Another thing about getting your Sub dose so high for no good and valid reasoning, is that it will make tapering off of it, if that's the route you want to go, last longer. And impatience in trying to get off of it too fast will just set you up. You my never get off of Sub entirely and even though they may not say it, I believe lots of people are and have been ready to come off of Sub but are scared too because of the stories they have head. You hear ten success stories and one bad one will seem to override those ten good ones. I plead guilty to saying how difficult a time I had trying to get off of Sub twice. But my experience was just that. I am getting closer just preparing myself better. Some people may have to stay on Sub forever but i for one don't believe that is an inevitability for anyone.

wayne

Last edited by gotoffmdone; 03-11-2012 at 09:14 AM..
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Unread 03-13-2012, 01:46 AM   #4
anabolic1979
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Thanks for the responses.. I'm sure there is a problem with expecting to get a feeling from the subs that I got for the previous 5 years or so. It was never like I was getting high but I always knew I took it because I felt relieved and yea a mood boost. I could lower my dose and it never bothered me as long as I took 4mg a day or so I was content. Now I never feel content... I always feel like its not working and sometimes I start to have wd symptoms later at night even though I took 16mg of roxanne subutex at 2pm. I know I shouldn't need this much and don't want to have to take a high dose at all I just want to feel comfortable again. I was doing well on the name brand subutex and only needed 8mg max and I was doing better than ever since starting on these meds. Than I had to switch to generics and it has been a decline in effectiveness since. I tried the teva brand and had better results but I can't find it anywhere and others won't order it because it's more expensive. But I absolutely need to get this under control ASAP because it's causing me a lot of problems. I don't have insurance anymore so I'm paying for these extra pills I shouldnt need and I'm getting married April 15th and my girl only found out about my meds recently so I'm under pressure from her now to ger off them. Today I took 8 mg this morning then 8mg at 5pm I thought I was gonna make it but about an hour ago I started to feel uncomfortable and took 4mg and I feel a bit better now. I guess it's better than taking 40mg... But I want to get stabilized at 16mg for a bit than slowly tapper over the next 6 months and hopefully try to get off again. I never thought I would want nothing more than to feel normal again!
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Unread 03-13-2012, 07:27 AM   #5
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Hi anabolic1979, have you tried either of these tips to see if you can get better absorption?

-No caffeine or nicotine for at least 30 minutes before taking your Suboxone – both may constrict the blood vessels that the medication is absorbed through.
-Right before taking it, rinse your mouth out with as warm water as possible – this may dilate the blood vessels for better absorption.

Do you qualify for the free meds program for brandname Suboxone or did you have problems taking Suboxone?
http://www.needymeds.org/drug_list.t...&name=Suboxone

There is another generic maker called Hi-Tech and a couple of people have said they work better than Roxanne. Maybe you can get a pharmacy to order those to try them.

When you said yesterday you started to feel uncomfortable and took 4mg, can you better explain uncomfortable? Was it withdrawals?

Sorry for the all the questions.

Nancy
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Unread 03-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #6
anabolic1979
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Hey nancy, yes I've researched absorption of bupe and ways to maximize it. I am on a couple other meds vyvanse and Xanax. I take the vyvanse for ADD and the Xanax I only take when needed because I have anxiety attacks. The vyvanse I only take 30 mg daily but I'm not sure if it affects the subutex absorption and I know Xanax would have the opposite effect. I m trying to take the least of all meds possible though. Back to bupe I tried mouth wash with alcohol, warm water, drying out my mouth before, ect... Honestly the mouthwash before worked a bit but stopped rapidly. The warm water does work a bit if I have access to it when I'm gonna take my dose. I did try the high tech arrow brand a couple times when target pharm gave them to me and I didn't realize till it was too late.. They are so small but very concentrated and seem to have a lot less fillers. The problem I had was they dissolved very fast and I needed to take more tabs to get the same amount in my system. That was a bad time because I ran out. I liked the name brand but that's not an option anymore. I was on suboxone for almost 5 years and after a few months they started maked me I'll. Suboxone was a nightmare the longer I was on it the more sick, depressed and awful I became. When I went on subutex it was Roxanne the first month and I went through a mental withdrawal of some kind but after that I felt a lot better than on suboxone. The problem was I felt like the generic subs were weaker than suboxone so I switched to the name brand tex and had 4 months that's we're great on those. My insurance at the time decided they wouldn't cover the name brand anymore so I have been having issues since. I reaserched things and had target order the teva brand a while back and got those for 2 weeks and they worked very well.. I was excited and thought things were sorted out but target pharm then told me they were not allowed to order teva anymore when I went back for my refill. So I have just been getting roxanne since cause every pharmacy seems to carry that brand.i lost my insurance last month so I'm not covered till April 15th and I contacted teva about locating a pharmacy who carrys their brand. But I know they cost more so I will have to wait and hopefully find a pharmacy that will order teva for me. Maybe that will help a bit and until then I'm trying to cut down. Today I have taken 16mg and I feel ok right now.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 07:11 AM   #7
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Hi anabolic1979, when you said the longer you were on Suboxone, the more sick, depressed and awful you became. You could explain that more? You said that the doctor kept raising your dose and I wonder if that could have been the problem. As mentioned before, oftentimes with Suboxone, too high of a dose can cause people to feel lethargic, depressed, anxious and some other things and those symptoms go with a dose reduction. Sorry for asking again, but maybe the doctor should have tried lowering the Suboxone instead of raising it before.

How did the 16mg work for you yesterday?

Nancy
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Unread 03-14-2012, 04:08 PM   #8
anabolic1979
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I tried being on a low dose of suboxone also and I felt awful.. Stomach problems, felt foggy headed,depressed.. I did ok on 16mg yesterday so I don't know whats going on.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 04:44 PM   #9
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Hi again, thanks for explaining that. I was just trying to figure out if you could try to get the brandname Suboxone free.

I'm glad that 16 worked yesterday, hopefully it will again today.

Nancy
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Unread 03-14-2012, 10:02 PM   #10
anabolic1979
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I only took 12mg today and I feel ok indeed to cut down fast if I can't get insurance coverage back when I get married then I have no choice but to take no more than 8 mg a day. Then figure out how I'm gonna pay for my doc visits... Very frustrated
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Unread 03-18-2012, 03:09 AM   #11
anabolic1979
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I'm feeling pretty crummy right now so I felt like posting... I have been on 8 mg a day the past couple days. I'm also coming off of klonopin so even though I tapered off slow and I never took a lot I think it's causing some discomfort. I've been just soo depressed and felling run down and nasal congestion(not sure what it's from exactly) but its causing me to hyperventilate a lot. I'm getting married in a month and my girl is frustrated with me because of this and i can't help it.. I don't blame her and I'm just scared and confused. I'm not sure this is from my lowering my subutex dose too fast or I have some other issue. It's not a like a full blown wd and I've never felt discomfort on 8 mg or more in the past but I was taking high doses longer this time so if anyone can let me know what they think I would appreciate it I'm getting nervous as hell! Thanks
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Unread 03-18-2012, 07:26 AM   #12
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Hi anabolic1979, sorry you're feeling crummy. It's hard to say why you're feeling like you are. Do you think you could be getting a cold? If it's from from reducing your dose, try to hang in there and you'll probably start feeling better once you stabilize there. Are you keeping busy, able to exercise at all? That will help get your natural endorphins going and help you feel better physically and mentally.

If the depression continues, please think about seeing someone. You might need an anti-depressant to help you out.

Let us know how you're doing when you have a chance.

Nancy
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Unread 03-18-2012, 10:13 AM   #13
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Hello anabolic1979, I just want to remind you to slow down now-I hear some "panic" in your voice about being off of everything. With most medications one can run into difficulties when discontinuing them improperly. So, take your time and do it all properly-gauging how you feel after tapering to a STABLE dose and being on it for at least a week, better if it is at least a couple of weeks at the same dose.

You say on the 13th you took 16mg, on the 14th 12 mg, and then for the past few days you have taken 8 mg. I don't know if you have a cold or anything else that will explain your feeling the way you do right now, but I do know that the suboxone doses you have taken this past week very well could have you feeling pretty poorly by now.

I do understand the reasoning behind why you want to discontinue your medications. But I want to remind you that you may be in for lots more problems, in many different ways, if you do not do a slow, proper taper off. Respect any medication the dr has prescribed and understand what it has done in regulating your system-then you might see why just stopping, or drastically cutting down, might cause problems.

Have you discussed any of this with your g/f? If you guys are getting married soon bring her onboard. I sure hope she doesn't say, just get off everything right now. Lots of people need medications for lots of reasons. If you were taking insulin for diabetes would you want to get off of it too?

It seems too many people seem to think some of the medications for addiction/or for anxiety are just not necessary. Those people are not doctors.

I guess what I am saying, in a nutshell finally is, don't taper too fast. Allow your body to adjust to a lower dose. With the half-life of suboxone being approx 36 hrs you have no idea of how you are doing on a lower dose as you have changed it so many times in the last week. I don't know about benzos except that it is dangerous to taper too fast and it can be deadly to just stop taking them all at once. So since you are "working" with both kinds of medications it is more important for you to slow down and work with your dr on this tapering off thing. Some things in our lives can be rushed, but this is not one of them.

I hope that this will help you settle down a little bit about the whole process. Yes, your impending marriage is very important, but your health comes first.

I hope you are feeling better today.

nan
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Unread 03-18-2012, 12:38 PM   #14
fishersnana
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Default Been on Suboxone for 5+ years!

I can completely relate to what you are saying. I switched from Suboxone to generic Subutex. It took an act of congress but I finally got my Psychiatrist to change me over! It has been three months now and I feel much better! I no longer fret over the possibility that I may be on sub for the rest of my life! I was diagnosed with Epilepsy 6 months ago. No one has an answer as to how I acquired it at the age of 49! Doctors say it is unlikely my use of opiates is the cause. I used Loratab 10mg 30 a day for almost 2years. My husband is a pharmacist. I will just leave that subject alone! Because of the Epilepsy the topic of tapering off the Sub is not being considered. I have a Grand Mal seizure every time i miss a dose or am late taking it. I am on a high dose of seizure meds so the Sub gives me back the energy the seizure meds take away.
Good luck and thanks for posting your concerns! I dont know anyone that has been on Bupe as long as I have! So now I know I am not alone! Thanks again!
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Unread 03-18-2012, 02:16 PM   #15
anabolic1979
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I had a bad cold a few weeks ago and this nasal thing kinda started after that so I'm thinking it's a sinus infection and anxiety making me hyperventilate.. I misplaced some of my subutex script this refill so I kinda had no choice but to taper till I get my refill tuesday when I'll have the money for my refill. I've just never had wd's since I've been taking suboxone and now subutex as long as I took 8 mg a day so I've been freaked out as to why I've felt so sickly and depressed. It's my own fault I guess because I took such a high dose for this past year consistently. I've always taken less for stretches of time and I didn't do that. Well I feel crappy for an hour than ok for 15 min and it's like that all day.. I only have 1 8mg subutex left and it's Sunday 2 pm and can't get my refill filled till Tuesday morn hopefully. Unless they left me buy a few tomorrow to get my though? Do they allow that? I've never had to do it in my years of filling scripts so I don't know. It's refillable tomorrow technically but I won't have the money for the whole script till Tuesday. The klonopin was used for sleep but I also take Xanax for anxiety during the day if I need it. I think I prob should be on 16 to 24 mg a day and then slowly taper from there when I get my script. I'll take 16 mg and wait to see how I feel and go from there till I'm comfortable like induction than go from there. I always felt better on a lower dose in the past so I hope I didn't do any damage to my receptors that's what I'm really concerned about that would cause bupe to become less effective. Thanks for responding I appreciate it
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Unread 03-29-2012, 11:52 PM   #16
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I figured I would post since it has been a couple weeks. I've been doing better since I got my refill and have been taking 24mg daily consistantly. I have had to up my dose of Xanax because of the stopping of my klonopin and even though I take less than prescribed I would prefer to not take it everyday. I still have anxiety attacks or at least that's what I think the hyperventilating is about.. I really messed up and took too much subutex at once for too long and I think my tolerance got to be out of control. This Tuesday should be my last appt with my sub doctor without insurance coverage that I will have to deal with as I still don't have the money and it so stressful. I have my wedding coming up on April 15th and I'm unemployed , trying to stay sane and get my meds without pissing my fiancée off by not having money for all the bills on time. She really gets on me about the meds when I don't have money and doesn't understand how stressed I get when I'm down to my last few subutex and I don't have all the money to fill the script. She makes me feel like I'm a scum bag for needing these meds and Im alone praying I come up with the money so I don't run out and end up in the ER! I just venting..
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Unread 03-30-2012, 07:15 AM   #17
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Hi anabolic1979, does your fiancee understand addiction and why the medication is important to you right now? Have you found out anything more about you being covered under her insurance and if it covers the medication? You should also check with your doctor to see if your appointments will be covered after that or if you'll need to submit the receipts from your visits for reimbursement.

It might also be time to look into some therapy as taking the medication alone and doing nothing else is not treatment. Then you may be able to taper successfully.

Let us know how things are going. Also let us know if you'd like us to post some links for your fiancee to read so she can understand addiction and addiction treatment.

Nancy
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Unread 03-31-2012, 03:49 AM   #18
anabolic1979
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I had her look into the insurance and since she gets it through her employer I guess she can just add me after we're married and just change to a family plan. I'm pretty sure they cover the subutex... I'm kinda gonna have to wait and hope nothing goes wrong with that. As far as the doctors visit, it's a wacky place! The way it works for patients like me at this time ( who are perfect patents with no dirty tests and no issues) and have been there a long time have 2 options. The first is come one time a month and pay $175 cash and get a months worth of meds or you can use insurance ( if u have it) and pay ur specialist co pay but u have to come every week! And you only get a weeks meds a time... So needless to say no one does the weekly one. They change their policies everyone I go! It's a joke.. I don't even see a doctor half the time anymore. They just fax my script upstairs to their own pharmacy that they try to force us to use to make more money. I get angry because at Walmart 60 8 mg subutex were only $170 with AAA discount and their pharmacy is $216 for the same. My girl situation is complicated because her ex bf who she was with before we meet was a heroin addict and put her through a lot stealing from her, pawning her stuff, relapsing all the time, lying, so when I finally told her I was on subutex she just lumped me in with him... It's frustrating because I didn't want her to judge me and treat me different. It's not just her most people don't understand why I get so stressed now that I'm without insurance and I'm almost out with not enough money to pay the doc and fill my script. Ill get deathly I'll fast! If I run out... So Im overwhelmed now! I have 4 tex left till Tuesday. I only have enough for the doc appt. I owe her 300 for last months bills. She is telling me she needs money for all this crap that is not my responsibility now. I told her that after the wedding I would step up the amount I pay for because she knows I only get unemployment and have to pay full price for everything... But I don't have it... I'm getting a headache ahhhh. I have no choice I need my subutex! But I'm gonna get yelled at and put down when I tell her I have to wy for it..
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Unread 03-31-2012, 01:36 PM   #19
Alaycia718
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I am on Subutex with no insurance and I only pick up 3-4 days worth of pills at a time and have been since I started, Ive never picked up my whole script at once. It actually helps cause no matter what if I only have 3-4 days worth I wont over take them, not saying I will but its just kind of a security blanket thing. My pharmacy gives me no problems though doing it the way I do so if you dont have money for the whole script, I dont see why you couldnt only pick up what you have money for. Ive used 3 different pharmacys since ive started and none of them have given me any issues about it. Good Luck, and really try that at the pharmacy, you being so stressed probably is adding to your bad feelings and making it worse for you.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 01:32 AM   #20
anabolic1979
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Yea I prob could just buy enough for a few days then come back... I've just never had to before so it never occurred to me I guess. I knew a lot of others did it and I guess I thought it was an annoyance to the pharmacy so I try not to rock the boat. I'll have to just buy what I can afford. I'm having so many problems and these meds issues are making it a lot worse. I'm thinking a lot of my anxiety and depression is coming from the vyvanse I take and the fluctuating subutex dosage I've been trying to stabilize now. I came off of klonopin, lowered my subutex dose and had to change my vyvanse dose all at the same time a few weeks ago. Not a great idea! I might have to go back on klonopin, Im doing good on the subutex though! I've been consistant on 16-24mg a day but I need to lower the vyvanse dose cause it's causing a nasty crash.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:07 AM   #21
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Hi anabolic1979, did you taper down and off of the klonopin? If you're consistent at 16 - 24mg a day of bupe, think about taking 20mg every day. That might help also since you you're going up and down 8mg and that's a big variance.

It's too bad your fiancee is lumping you in with her ex bf. Is this all the time, or could it be she's stressed from all the wedding planning?

Nancy
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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by anabolic1979 View Post
Hi I dont want to write a ton so I'll keep it short.. I'm a 32 year old man and unfortunately have been on bupe for 6 years now. I started on suboxone to detox fron oxys because I was told that it will be easy and painless to come off. For the first year or so I only needed 2 mg a day and honestly I should have been tapered off by my doc at the time but I didn't know better. I was being told to stay on it and he raised my dose over the corse of the next 3 years till I was taking 16-24mg a day. The suboxone was making me very sick and after having to switch doctors was put on subutex. It made a big difference and I felt a lot better and was able to get back down to 8mg on my own despite the new doc prescribing 32mg daily. Well ive been wanting off for a long time and tried before and it was a nightmare that seemed to never end. A few months ago I noticed a strong urge to take more than I ever needed or wanted to take. I end up taking the whole 32mg a day sometimes 40mg(the script calls for 4 a day and 1 as needed) even though it does nothing for me that I notice anyway. Now I'm caught in this cycle and need to get back on track and lower my dose. I'm afraid that my long term high doses have left me needing these doses. I don't feel my doses like I used to in previous years. So it's not like im getting anything out of the higher dose. Anyone have any advice or thoughts on why I'm compelled to take that extra dose all of a sudden these past few months? Also I did go from name brand suboxone to name brand subutex than had to go on the generic tex not soon after the problem began..

IVE BEEN ON SUN FOR 8 YRS COME JULY,,AND IVE HAD 4 DOCTORS,,PUT EM ALL TOGETHER AND MAYBE THEY MIGHT KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT IT AS YOU OR ME!
but what i wanted to say is ive been on sub and then my next doctor put me on tex and raised it from 16 to 24mgs. Well,,seeins that you are postin here then i figure you now have more knowledge about sub than you did before,,its sorry,,but its a fact that you and most dont get the right info from your doctor!,,But thats not surprising seeins how all they gotta do is watch a vidio for 30 minutes,,and i doubt any were takin notes,,probably takin a nap is more likely.
anyway,,in those 8 yrs i went to many differant doses tryin to find that good feeling i had in the begining,,but to no avail,!,,but thats ok,,now ive learned that evn after goimn with high doses for awhile ,,and i came to my senses i had no problem at all goin back down, Its mostly a mental thing treating sub like it was other opiates,,you could take 4 pills and feel no differant than takin just one. So you'll be ok,,i went back down to 16 and a week later went straight down to 8 mgs and felt no change or any bad feelings,,now im just goin with 4 to 6 mgs and feel fine,,but im not tryin to get lower cause im not tryin to detox off of sub,,just tellin ya that takin higher doses makes no difference and i wish doctors would begin to understand sub a little better,,at 4 to 6 mgs ,,i have absolutely no cravings and it still blocks other opiates,,i know,,ive tried it,,the only way it would work is if you quit sub for about 4 days,,but most likely sometime in that 4 days the person gets it together and takes the sub instead,
So dont trip,,if your on 24 mgs?,,you can go right down to 16mgs in one move,,and after you think about it ,,if ya wanna go to 8 mgs,,well,,you can just go straight down to that w/o any problems!,,but hry,,what do i know,,ive only been on sub almost 8 yrs and have tried high and low doses and those in between.
TATTOO TOMMY
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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi anabolic1979, did you taper down and off of the klonopin? If you're consistent at 16 - 24mg a day of bupe, think about taking 20mg every day. That might help also since you you're going up and down 8mg and that's a big variance.

It's too bad your fiancee is lumping you in with her ex bf. Is this all the time, or could it be she's stressed from all the wedding planning?

Nancy
hey baby girl!,,,,

how ya doin?,,i know you may not agree with the post i just made because of the big jumps w/o a taper,,and you may be right,,but as far as big jumps DOWN,,i really had no problem at all,,yea,,kinda suprised me too,,but i went down from 24,,to 16 to 8 mgs in 3 short jumps and felt not a bit of difference!
take care
TT
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Unread 04-05-2012, 07:36 AM   #24
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Hey Tommy! I think most people can go from 24 to 16 to 12 or 8 pretty easily - we've seen that alot. I was thinking that anabolic needed to get stabilized on one dose and the go from there. Plus he switched from the brand name to the generic and it seems like he wasn't getting the same absorption and needed more.

So I do agree with you, from the higher doses, most people can usually make big jumps down to 8 and maybe 4 and the have to slow it down from there.

Hope you and your family - especially your little granddaughter - are well!

Nancy
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Unread 04-07-2012, 03:01 AM   #25
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thats the problem ive been having.. for years i could take high doses, low doses and fluctuate with no problem as long as i took 4-8mg a day usually. I dont know why but all of a sudden i cant drop below 16mg a day now or i feel awful! Maybe its that im on generic subutex now and prior i was on suboxone or maybe its something else like i dont workout anymore.. I dont know... i hate not knowing exactly why im having this happen now. I need to know why or im just going to obsess over it thats just the way i am. as far as my fiance she just doesnt understand opiate addiction. She doesnt get how sick im going to become when i do come off subs and thinks i like or want to stay on them.. i dont want to be on them! i would give anything to be opiate free and feel normal again. im so jealous of people who are not opiate addicts im so sick of this. if i knew what i know now i never wpould have touched subs except for maybe a super short low dose taper. the doctor told me to take 24mg of sub a day and i was only taking maybe a couple oxy 80's a week. it was way way too much sub!! 2mg was too much at that time and he told me yea wd's will be nothing. yea right! lying jerks
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Unread 04-07-2012, 08:10 AM   #26
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Hi. I think Ive read most of your posts, so Im just going to give you my humble opinion on the whole dealio.
I feel like alot of the troubles you are having stem from the ADD. I have a close friend who has that and she gets very fixated on things. (She also takes vyvanse) People with attention deficit usually have tons of thoughts running in their heads all the time, and its hard to focus. And when you have a girlfriend freaking you out all the time, that cant help.
So, this is what I would do....get your medication right for the ADD - it is a narcotic stimulant, so as you know, it may affect how you feel when taking suboxone also. Second, as others have mentioned, I would educate your girlfriend on addiction- I know you said her ex has an addict, but she just doesnt understand that it is a brain disorder.- just like the ADD is. Its not something you can turn on and off like a water faucet. And No one wants to be on medication usually, but if it gives you a better quality of life, then thats whats important right? And if she doesnt understand that, then I would reconsider marrying her - just saying. Seriously, if someone didnt have my back on all that, I couldnt trust them. She is supposed to be marrying you for YOU- the good, the bad, sickness and in health ,for richer or for poorer.... and from what Ive read, it sounds like its her way or the highway. Is that what you want for the rest of your life? or until you divorce?
And then with the suboxone, all you can do is start slowly tapering back down. In your post you mentioned you wish you would have done a short low dose taper....well, put that behind you cause chances are high you would have went back to self medicating with OxyContin. Now you need to move forward and do whats right for you. Take your time, and try to quit worrying about what could have been.
And dont let your girlfriend control you!!!!!
Ok, Im done ranting. I hope you take my post into consideration in thinking all this stuff through. Again, only my opinion, and I wish you the best of luck
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Unread 04-08-2012, 01:04 AM   #27
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Your not going to like this but I'll suggest it anyways. I dont think this ks entirely whats going on but i think it may be adding to whats going on. I'm tapering now and I was on 12 mg,
I'm a huge baby about withdrawals. I kept telling my therapist who was an addict too, that I couldn't get last the 24 hour mark without taking subs. I said my legs start to hurt and and I get so anxious and I feel like I'm in withdrawals. I keep asking him why I'm havin withdrawals, I'm on a very low dose I should be able to make OT longer. Well he said next time you feel like your are in withdrawals distract yourself, if you can distract yourself and forget about the withdrawals then they are in your head. If you keep feeling leg pain and anxiety an hourly later then they may be legit. So the next time it happened I distracted myself and managed to make it 48 hours without sub. I had to distract myself several times. So my therapist basically said that our bodies are actually feeling the withdrawals it's not a figment of our imagination in that way however we aren't really withdrawing in that our bodies may not actually need meds. He said that because we are programmed to be Watching for these symptoms and we are waiting to take that next dose that our bodies can sometimes get confused and make us feel symptoms that we are obsessing about: I'm not saying you are imaging all of this but you are obsessing about it so this could be some of your problem.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 09:48 PM   #28
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hey.. its been a week since i got married. i was added to her insurance last week so that was a relief but im still taking 24mg a day of subutex usually. i had gotten used to taking my whole dose at once and i decided to try splitting it up into smaller doses and i hope to get down to 8mg by june. im unemployed now as i mentioned and i am not used to idle time i was working 6 days a week 2-10pm for 8 years for a mall maintenance dept and would walk and be active all night... now im isolated and not moving as much and i have all this time to think about crap.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 07:37 AM   #29
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Hi anabolic1979, why are you splitting it up into smaller doses? That can be reminiscent of active addiction - dosing throughout the day and thinking about it throughout the day. Instead, you might want to try reducing your dose 2mg at a time, taking it all at once as you have been.

Have you thought about volunteering somewhere while you're looking for work? Idle time can be very detrimental, as you, because you can overthink things. What about volunteering at a nursing home visiting patients who don't have anyone visiting - that would make both them and you feel good. Or a soup kitchen to name a couple of places.

Congratulations on your marriage!

Nancy
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Unread 04-25-2012, 12:49 AM   #30
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i figured that taking 8mg 2x a day would cause less of a spike in my levels of the drug and lower my tolerance faster. rather than taking 24 or whatever mg at one time and overloading my body... it seems like when i started taking lager doses at one time my tolerance seemed to get out of control. granted i was taking 32-40mg at a time back then but back when i had no real issues i would either take small amounts like 2-4mg as needed like in the morning and if i felt i needed more at night i might take 2mg more. then for the longest time during my treatment when i was on suboxone maybe 3 years or so i took eaither 4mg or 8mg once a day and that was that... i didnt want or need more, i was content taking the lowest amount i could and didnt think about it ever sometimes i would not remember i needed my dose till i started to get sick and i would be like ohhh yea i forgot to take my suboxone. im just stumped as to why i need so much more now when for years and years i went up and down but always could go down in dose to 4mg with no problems at all. it seems like the problem started when i went on subutex and had to take generics. i know people will say it no different but i truly believe its not the same. yea i dont have all the side effects from the suboxone making me sick in other ways but i always feel like i need more and dont get that content feeling and i could go about my day without thinking about this stuff! the name brand subutex was good and i didnt need much as i would feel like i was good with 8mg and thats all.. with roxanne i take my dose and i feel like i didnt even take it almost i dont know how to explain it. i wish thier was an option here for me to get a high quality name brand product. the teva was good but i only had it for a 2 week span. i need to find a pharmacy that cares and will listen to me and order me the teva brand if i want it. thats not asking alot is it? i get alot of scripts and im loyal when i find a pharmacy that i like. i just got insurance so what should i do to find that brand? its driving me insane and im not going to be able to rest till i find it. any help nancy or anyone please next week im going back to the doctor and im gonna ask for the scripts instead of them using their own pharmacy which they try to always do! they only carry roxanne and wont be ordering anything special. then if there is anyway to narrow down my search instead of cold calling every pharmacy in the state it would be awsome thanks
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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:57 AM   #31
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Hi anabolic1979, some people don't seem to be absorbing the Roxanne brand as well as the name brand or TEVA or Hi-Tech brands. That said, I think it's a good idea to get your own prescription and find a pharmacy that either of the other two brands. Here's the contact info for TEVA, maybe they could help:
http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx?pageid=3469

And for Hi-Tech: http://www.hitechpharm.com/contact/

If they can't help, then you'll have to call each pharmacy around you. I would ask to speak with the pharmacy manager instead of just anyone who answers the phone there.

If you feel better taking 8mg 2x a day, then give it a try. I was thinking you meant taking it many times throughout the day, which would emulate active addiction.

Let us know how it goes.

Nancy
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Unread 05-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #32
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I am not doctor/professional/etc.......but in my opinion I believe your problems are a combination of trying to adjust or completely come off all your medications. Are the doctors tapering you off the benzo's or are you doing yourself? Like stated above, coming off benzo's can be very difficult and even deadly. I use to have problems, or so I thought with trying to taper my dose,under my doctors care and it turned out all those anxiety ridden thoughts feelings were mostly in my head (caused by my over thinking). When I finally realized this things went allot better. Also remember we as addict's seem to want it now. When I was in active addiction I wanted it now and I find that same attitude creeping into my life in certain situations and have to remind myself to slow down and take a step back. I don't know if any of this makes any sense but hopefully 1 person can take something from this and it helps.

Good Luck!
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Unread 05-13-2012, 02:03 AM   #33
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no i just want to get a medication that works properly... im very frustrated by this whole subutex generic market! its absolutely a frigin nightmare for me as has been since i had to stop the name brand subutex last year. roxanne just doesnt get rid of my cravings and i end up taking tons for no good reason, the little tiny hi tech brand are little better but again i need twice the dose compared to name brand. the only one that was even in the ball park was teva!!! And i got it once... it ALWAYS! on back order always... i dont know why but it is. i called them the other day and now there saying mid june maybe. come on now whats wrong. i actually just went on my wifes insurance and i called a walgreens just on a hunch and bamm they had teva in stock! man i was so happy. i want got my script and went all the way back to walgeens literally skipping into the store i was so happy to finally find them after all the bull crap. i run to the counter had the girl my script and im thinking YES i called earlier they def have it, my script is legible and my insurance covers subutex as i looked it up online before hand. so she looks at the script and i get that ugh drug addict look im sure alot mof u have seen before like im wasting their time and the um let me check im not sure we have it in stock... but i called so i said oh i called earlier and i was told u had it and you had the brand ive been looking for. then i handed her my insurance card and was still in lala land about how perfect this was going for me today! she looks at the card and replies OH WE DONT ACCEPT THAT PLAN HERE ANYMORE. i almost flipped my lid. your kidding right??? its blue cross blue shield of new england... oh we stopped participating in thier program the first of the year she says. oh my god i wanted to scream i was so angry. i was in total shock i couldnt accept this... it overwhelmed me completely my mood switched like a light switch. i actually made her give me a price as i was actually contemplating just buying them. they wanted $375 for 68 teva 8mg subutex generics... way more than other places and i didnt have the cash so i went to a rite aid down the street and they had u guessed it roxanne! they were the only pharmacy in that area with anything in stock so i used them. well i talk with the girls at the rite aid told them i prefer teva asked them if they could order it and they said they dont do that blah blah we get these(meaning roxanne) so i said well ok i have a refill in 2 weeks so roxanne will be fine. well yesterday i go to get my refill and this girl plops a bag pulls out bottle and starts the these pills look different than the ones you..... whoa whoa whoa wait a minute if its the little tiny tabs i dont want them!!! she looked at me like i was wasting her time. same old pharmacy bull its getting real old fast. i said i was here 2 weeks ago was told u had roxanne in stock and if i knew u were going to give me some other pills i would have gone elsewhere! i had her call a few other places but she was visably angry i wouldnt just take the pills she was giving me and like it. well i ended up taking them only because i was out and didnt have time to wait. im just soooo fed up with these subutex generics it puts so much stress on me. i want a brand that works like the name brand or close! thats all i frigin want omg
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