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Unread 01-30-2010, 12:36 AM   #1
riseup
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Question Anyone else been injecting subutex for a few years? try getting off yet?

Hey,
First time in this forum and on this site for this purpose...

i've been on subutex (buprenorphine only) for over 5 years and when i started i was still using heroin and eventually after a year on it was able to stop using dope, BUT i had a really REALLY hard time getting away from using needles. So, the way that I stopped a $300/day heroin habit was to inject my subutex (it was prescribed and still is)... This has kept me off heroin for 5 years now, but I can't wear short sleeve shirts, shorts, skirts, or tank-tops without covering up my arms and hands whenever I go out of my house. I''ve never gotten high by shooting my medication so it's not that kind of situation.

Anyone else in this situation or been in this situation where you've been injecting subutex/buprenorphine for over a year???

I want to stop injecting it, and have tried for years but simply cannot. It IS keeping me from using dope and being homeless and living on the street again, so its helpful in that respect...

I'm just curious what people out there have to say, and if anyone else has the same problem, or had the same problem for a while... I asked a doctor that doesn't know me or my situation about shooting subutex and he said that when i take it orally it doesn't do the same thing (which is true and i wondered why) in my brain because my brain and body has learned how the chemicals are taken in (intravenously) and won't respond as well to chemicals that are absorbed via other methods...

Has anyone heard of this before? Any doctors who can comment on this statement?
Thanks in advance!
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Unread 01-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #2
azande
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yes, me. i am so in the shit, vein wise. yet cant stop i hate doing it but have done for nearly five years. dont have time to answer fully atm.
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Unread 01-30-2010, 07:47 AM   #3
NancyB
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Hi riseup, welcome. This is a thread from last November with someone having the same problem. I think it will be of interest to both you and azande:

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=22969

The buprenorphine should do the same thing in your brain – stop cravings and withdrawals – no matter the mode of administration. The thing is, injecting it is a faster way that it gets to the brain and there's no loss of absorption as with sublingual. With sublingual, no one gets 100% absorption, so if you've tried the same amount sublingually that you've been injecting, it won't be working the same. Here's something on sublingual absorption I found a while ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
From the "Pharmacokinetics of the combination tablet of buprenorphine and naloxone"
Drug and Alcohol Dependence 70 (2003) S39-S47
C. Nora Chang, Richard L. Hawks
Division of Treatment Research and Development, National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Received 19 December 2002; accepted 4 February 2003

Page S43
"The relative bioavailability was reported to be 50% (range of 11-82%) in a single dose study..."

It went up to 64% in a multiple dose study, citing that the patient may have learned to hold the table under the tongue better.

Nancy
Could it be that you're more likely addicted to the needle? That's not uncommon. Have you gone to therapy at all? Oftentimes CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is really helpful for addiction disorders.

I hope this helpful. Let us know how you both are doing.

Nancy
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Unread 02-15-2010, 08:51 PM   #4
kiwigirl
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Default Can't stop

yeah I know what you r saying coz I'm the same and if u gonna do it like that u absolutely have to use a pill wheel filter.I get them from local needle exchange costs $1.00 but I flush mine and reuse(not recommended by health professionals)but hey injecting heroin in dirty toilets ain't recommended either.
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Unread 11-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #5
NewfoundHope
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Default IV subutex

Quote:
Originally Posted by riseup View Post
Hey,
First time in this forum and on this site for this purpose...

i've been on subutex (buprenorphine only) for over 5 years and when i started i was still using heroin and eventually after a year on it was able to stop using dope, BUT i had a really REALLY hard time getting away from using needles. So, the way that I stopped a $300/day heroin habit was to inject my subutex (it was prescribed and still is)... This has kept me off heroin for 5 years now, but I can't wear short sleeve shirts, shorts, skirts, or tank-tops without covering up my arms and hands whenever I go out of my house. I''ve never gotten high by shooting my medication so it's not that kind of situation.

Anyone else in this situation or been in this situation where you've been injecting subutex/buprenorphine for over a year???

I want to stop injecting it, and have tried for years but simply cannot. It IS keeping me from using dope and being homeless and living on the street again, so its helpful in that respect...

I'm just curious what people out there have to say, and if anyone else has the same problem, or had the same problem for a while... I asked a doctor that doesn't know me or my situation about shooting subutex and he said that when i take it orally it doesn't do the same thing (which is true and i wondered why) in my brain because my brain and body has learned how the chemicals are taken in (intravenously) and won't respond as well to chemicals that are absorbed via other methods...

Has anyone heard of this before? Any doctors who can comment on this statement?
Thanks in advance!
I just decided yesterday that I was finished with injecting my prescribed subutex. Your post is 2 years old but I'm responding to this particular post for everyone else having the same issues.

I was a full blown IV heroin addict for about 2 years but then of course went for suboxone once I was ready to leave heroin behind. I remember feeling really good, like almost completely normal just popping a sub or 2 under my tongue and even after I went to a rehab which got me off of the heroin and subs, I went back to suboxone- I was too scared to go back to heroin but not brave enough to not have NOTHING at all. Then i found out you could inject these and so naturally I thought it was a perfect combo- I'm not dong the heroin but I still get to keep my needle.....oh joy.....
2 years have gone past and I ended up being more fond of Subutex about 6 months ago so I sought out a Dr. And starting injecting subutex daily instead of suboxone.

All addicts are different, but we all know that this addiction is all about the needle. The subutex when used correctly is easy to get off of but when you start injecting it, it's a whole different ball-game.
I read a forum yesterday about a guy who lost his arm after a year of injecting subutex..l read about people who have no circulation in their arms. I know that needle is hard to put down but yesterday for some reason....I just prayed to god for strength....took my kit- spoons everything and threw them out of the window of my car into some random woods. I also removed all of my back-up equipment and threw them out. So now today (my first day without injecting) I am taking my subutex under my tongue little bits At a time. You can take the whole dose at one time but it's better this way because when I crave the needle I just break a little bit off a pill and stick it under my tongue, this way I'm surviving my cravings and not taking more than I should. I FEEEL SOOOO GOOOOD TODAY.

I was having heart issues circulation issues, headaches, nausea everyday from injecting. Now today I do not feel sick, I feel exactly the same as if I injected my medicine but better because I'm not experiencing those scary side effects. I looked at myself in the mirror yesterday and laughed at how stupid this is and now I just need strength to continue on this path.

My advice:
-Read the forums on the bad effects of IV subutex.
-think about losing a limb or having no circulation deep vein thrombosis, etc. It will eventually happen.
-know that you will not feel withdraw if you switch from IV to taking it under your tongue.
-think about actually letting someone see and touch your arms or legs, etc without shame.
-TAKE EVERY PEICE OF EQUIPTMENT AND THROW IT AWAY IN A PLACE THAT YOU CANNOT RETRIEVE IT.
-pray for strength- try taking it normally for just one day to know how it feels.

I FEEL SO AMAZING TODAY AND IT WAS SO SURREAL TO THROW MY EQUIPTMENT OUT THE WINDOW. I pray for anyone going through this. It's tough but in the end-your health and happiness should always win the battle,

Good luck to you all-

Kelly

-
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Unread 11-07-2012, 11:07 AM   #6
alanw
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First off Kelly, amazing story or recovery, I for one am so proud you stopped.


As Nancy pointed out you get 100% of the meds via needle and more like 70% under the tongue, if you take it up your nose you get 90%, and if you plug it you get almost 100%, if you already take your full daily dose via needle then you can't substitute with more meds under your tongue to compensate the loss of meds during r.o.a, internasaly/plugging will get more of the medecine to you. Not recommending this but suggesting it, I don't want anyone to go threw wd or run out short and be in pain!

Maybe if you can talk to your doc and see if you can get a dosage increase for the time being? or maybe just take 2mg under the tongue till you feel relief and try and stay as low as possible.

Like Kelly did, I suggest getting your rigs, spoons and whatever else out of your house ASAP! I just recently quit weed and I got all mt pipes and stuff out and that helped tremendously, just think of the damage your doing to your body, sub has soooo much fillers we don't even consider, even if you filter it!

You all have the power and we all believe in you!

Alan w
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Unread 11-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #7
ItsMole
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Congrats Kelly, sounds like you are taking steps towards making sure you stay on the right track.

I know this thread is old, but I have known some buddies in the past who took IV subutex. One of them who couldn't seem to stop for about 2 years finally found a way out. It seems like a simple solution, but he got honest with his prescribing doctor and explained that he wanted to stop and use the medication properly. He worked with the doctor and came up with the solution.

It seems like an incredibly simple fix, but his doctor just switched his medication from subutex to suboxone and raised his daily dose for the first few months due to the different absorption percentages of IV and sublingual. By switching to Suboxone, it removed the opportunity to use IV due to the nalaxone. My buddy knew if he was to inject the suboxone, the nalaxone would easily throw him in to unpleasant wd. Also, he found that taking something like 12mg sublingual worked for him to eliminate wd and cravings the same way that 8mg IV subutex.

So, if you are struggling with IV abuse of subutex, what I can suggest is to be honest with your doctor. Most doctors that I know of are usually accepting and willing to help when honest with them. (I am sure there are some out there who are not as accepting, you should know your doctor well enough to determine). Talk with your doctor and ask to be switched from the subutex which can be IV over to suboxone...still buprenorphine just with the nalaxone added to prevent IV use. You may need to talk with the doctor about temporarily raising the dosage due to the absorption not being a full 100%, but if a higher dose stops IV abuse, that is a good trade off.

Good luck to anyone struggling and hope this helps.
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Unread 06-15-2013, 11:06 PM   #8
cagedbird
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i know this is an old thread but i think it is some what misleading as injecting suboxone with the naxolone, will actually not throw you into withdrawals as the naxalone is basically inert,
its really a scare tactic by the pharmas to deter iv/i.m use of the drug
injecting suboxone is in no way different to injecting subutex, not that i suggest doing this, i just wanted to clear up this very common myth.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 06:42 PM   #9
Sub-Zero
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At low doses of Suboxone the naloxone can add to the withdrawal that the bupe causes in those people who are physically dependent on opioids other than bupe. At low doses of bupe there are plenty of open receptors for the naloxone to attach to and dislodge a full agonist opioid. At high doses all of the receptors are occupied with bupe and since the naloxone has a lower affinity, it can't dislodge the bupe or attach to any receptors so nothing happens.

The question is why would anybody shoot buprenorphine in the first place? If you want to get high why not shoot heroin? Bupe costs more, does less, can put you into withdrawal if you're using other opioids too, and it blocks opiates, its pointless to shoot.
Sub
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Unread 06-18-2013, 07:38 PM   #10
julie48
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Amen sub!!! Shooting subs is addictive behavior and as I said in cagebirds thread, those shooting bupe are one of the reason there is so much BS going around about it. We want to be treated with a medication that helps our disease. Well, shooting it just tells the Docs, DEA and whoever their fears are founded, when with the majority of us they are not!!! Ugh!!!! Julie
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