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Unread 07-29-2008, 02:33 PM   #1
saturnmarie10
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Anyone gain weight on this stuff? I am and its not my imagination. I work out and still run, but if I eat anything, it goes right to my hips. Vain and shallow you say, well thats the way it is. Been thin all my life and want to stay there. Any thoughts? Saturn

Hang in there Tommy and fight like a tiger. Play Rocky's theme when you are working out........
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Unread 07-29-2008, 03:29 PM   #2
kitty77
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my dr told me its because we start to eat more regularly/often. When most of us were using we didnt eat as
much or often/ healthy.are u eating healthy foods? Are u eating large amounts of food(portions)? Are u not moving around?- wait, no u said u were exercising.do u just feel bloated?(I know that constipation can make us get bloated to the point our pants won't fit, but that's only a temporary problem.) did u recently pass a certain age? There was a study that said something like every decade after 30 our metabolism slows down by 10%. So at age 40, it slows down 10% more & so on. That may be playing a role.
of course I have read different posts on this site & others claiming sub made them gain weight. Especially women. When I asked my dr he said that no drug slows your metabolism its just that different drugs make people act differently . He said some make people more lethargic therefore they dont excercise & eat more causing them to gain weight. Sub helps regain normal lives,1 part of which is eating more normally.not sure if that helps but that's just what I heard. PLs let us know how youre doing though. Stay positive!
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Unread 07-29-2008, 04:09 PM   #3
OhioMike
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Well Saturn, for me it was just the opposite. My first 24 months in recovery I lost 60 lbs.

However, since thanksgiving or so, I have put some back on, though not nearly close to where I was prior to entering treatment. Now, as I work through some health issues, I am starting to slowly drop again.

I know this to be true, my 60 lb. reduction was a direct result of recovery. Though I contribute it to the recovery process in general, not just Suboxone. My recent weight gain is a combination of getting too comfortable, age and my health issues limiting me.

During my active addiction with vicodin it was not the vicodin which drove my weight from my normal 225 - 230 up to and just over 300 lbs. but, addiction as a whole. The entire process. With that said, I know many where just the opposite took place, they lost a great deal of weight during active addiction, in this case mostly to pain killers.

So to correct these things (even if they are triggered by just one thing) IMO we need to look at our daily life as a whole and make life changes to correct whatever problems we experience weight gain or loss included.

and there is always the sweets deal with recovery. Be it an extra soda per day, maybe a extra teaspoon of sugar here and there or that extra baked good or candy! Sweets and recovery go hand in hand often times and also often times we do or change little things without much notice.

Nevertheless, I'm sure if you approach this as an opportunity to make healthy life changes in general to combat it, not only will you succeed but, you will be making good changes across the board in a lot of areas.

OMike
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Unread 07-29-2008, 04:22 PM   #4
flier1
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I also lost about 50 pounds, but I was a fast food person because I was always out looking for pills I always ate out too. But since on Sub I do eat healthier lots of fruit and veggies and if I eat out it is salads now so I changed my eating habits allot and I also do Walk Away The Pounds Video, being that I hate walking outside cause it is so hot out now I do the video it is a 5 mile walk that you do in front of the TV, LOVE IT..

Helen
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Unread 07-29-2008, 07:34 PM   #5
Annie
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If you don't mind posting this for the world to see, how old are you?
If you have been doing the same work-out routine for a long time, your body can become very used to it (too efficient) and you no longer burn the calories that you used to . You need to mix it up.
Do you lift weights or do other exercises to add muscle? As we all get older our muscle mass decreases and we burn less calories just sitting. (I used to be an exercise fanatic/addict ~ ask me just about anything about it I will be more than happy to see if I can help)
I guess what Im getting at is, I agree that your wt gain is not directly due to the sub but indirectly related in that eating/activity habits usually change after starting treatment. For me, I started exercising more but also got back my appetite ( I never really increased my DOC so was like always in w/D) so I stayed about the same. Good luck!
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Unread 07-29-2008, 07:39 PM   #6
OhioMike
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"As we all get older our muscle mass decreases and we burn less calories just sitting"


hahaha Yeah, the damn stuff sinks and then turns to gel.

Sorry, I know this is a serious topic, but, I have to chuckle at myself some, just to avoid getting frustrated about it.

Good points Annie!

OMike
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Unread 07-30-2008, 11:31 AM   #7
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Gained 50 lbs, but was very thin while on pain pills. I'm closer to normal now when compared to when I was using.
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Unread 07-30-2008, 04:55 PM   #8
dakotagreen_eyes
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Hey everyone, it's just Crystal again. I am 25 years old myself. I remember before I started my addiction I was 240lbs and I was 20 years old. I was not on anything back then. I lost alot of weight and got down to 149. I am also 5'6. Then, I started taking pills and got out of hand when I was about 23 (I did them in between but not everyday, until I hit 23).I currently weigh 238 lbs. I am very depressed about my weight, but now that today is the 2nd day of Suboxone, maybe it will help me. Back then when I lost all the weight, I did it natural, no pain pills, uppers, downers, NOTHING! Now, for the past year I have always said to myself, if I score today, I am going to the gym and etc.I even bought a membership for 650.00, did not use one day of it. Pretty sad.And plus, I have not been working so that doesnt help. So, I guess we will just see. I figure, I have to take one day at a time. But, I really can not afford to gain anymore weight.Maybe after a few weeks of being on this, I will start going on short walks or something. We will see. In the mean time, God Bless,
Crystal
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Unread 07-30-2008, 04:59 PM   #9
Mike
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Crystal,
Now that you are starting something new (the sub) its a good time to make other changes in your routine. How a bout adding a mile walk everyday? Get up 30 minutes earlier everyday and start your day with a walk, the change alone will help and the exercise, although not much will also help you set the new pace.
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Unread 07-30-2008, 05:16 PM   #10
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Hi saturn..I have gained also since I started sub. I know why though. When I was taking my DOC I wouldn't eat cuz I felt that with a empty stomach my vicadin would work better. So I only ate at night and starved myself during the day. I always carried M&M's in my purse so that if I got a little hungery I would eat a couple of them.

Now that I am on the Suboxone, I know that it isn't absorbed through my stomach and I eat all day. I also get MAJOR cravings at night for sweets. I will be eating at night and falling asleep while I am eating! I will argue with my hubby that I am not asleep and keep eating. I have never done that before. Also my oldest son has caught me up in the middle of the night eating and I am still asleep. Sleep eating?

I just know that I have to do something to change it or I will gain back all the weight I lost over the past 2 years! I know that while I am on Suboxone I have to make changes, but not eating unhealthy foods. I believe that we need to make the changes on Sub and that includes our eating habits.

Good Luck
Michelle
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Unread 07-31-2008, 02:34 PM   #11
saturnmarie10
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Thanks all and also t you McMotley. Its weird. I too have unusual cravings for sweets, chocolates, whatever. Never did with my DOC. Also eat from 9pm on. Don't have to eat anything during the day but at night I am munch heaven. Any of you out there on subutex. Just switched over, feels the same. Don't know why all of us are not on it and don;t know why the literature states that you stary with subutex and switch over to suboxone. Anyone know???
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Unread 07-31-2008, 03:56 PM   #12
dakotagreen_eyes
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Hey Mike, good to hear from ya. Yes, that sounds like a very good idea! I think what I am going to do, is worry about my appt tomorrow with my doc, get set on a dose(because right now I am taking two 8mg/2mg pills everyday), so, once I get set on that, I will start my day and life adeventure with a walk. You are so right! By the way Mike, can you please tell me what dose I am actually taking..I do not understand the 8mg/2mg I guess. But thanks so much for the help, and I look foward from hearing back from ya! By the way, how is your sucess? Hang in there, YOUR DOING GREAAATTT!God Bless,
Crystal
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Unread 07-31-2008, 04:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mcmotley

Hi saturn..I have gained also since I started sub. I know why though. When I was taking my DOC I wouldn't eat cuz I felt that with a empty stomach my vicadin would work better. So I only ate at night and starved myself during the day.
I had a little laugh at this. When I was taking 40-50 norcos every day, I was very worried about my liver. The maximum daily recommended dose of Acetaminophen(Tylenol) is 4G. So taking Norco (325mg tylenol in each), the max daily dose would be 12 tablets. So this was basically the only thing that worried me and kept me from taking even more than I did. At one point, I would even filter out the the tylenol using cold water. All this so that I could take as little as possible to get my fix. Having an empty stomach was the best way to maximize the absorption.

Now I realize how very stupid all of this was. But back to the point, I did the very exact thing. I would not eat a single thing all day, nothing! Then at night after I had taken my last dose for the night I would gorge myself and feel sick. How stupid can I be! Eventually I didn't even notice it and I wasn't even hungry until night. I lost tons of weight and I was down to 173 lbs. and I'm 6'3! Before that I worked out every day and was in such good shape. I weighed 215, all muscle weight! Anyway good luck and give it a little while for your body to adjust.
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Unread 07-31-2008, 04:13 PM   #14
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Crystal, the 8/2 means that there is 8mg of buprenorphine and 2mg of naloxone in the pill. So you're taking 16mg a day. Here's information about the naloxone:
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#64

Think about keeping a journal of when you take your bupe and how you feel. That will help in finding the right dose.

Nancy
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Unread 07-31-2008, 05:19 PM   #15
dakotagreen_eyes
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Hey thanks bunches Nancy. I kinda figured that's what it was, but wasn't to sure. So, thank you again very much. Maybe for me, it might be a little to much. But then again like I said, I don't want to not get enough either. I will always say, I would rather feel like puking and sleepy all the time rather then go back to that junk! But, if I could find a happy medium, that would be alot better for me I think.lol. From the other posts, it seems like I am having the normal side effects from this medicine though. But, I will def start keeping a journal to write how I feel and so forth.I am sure the doctor would like to know, and maybe just by me telling him the truth on how I feel, he could find the right dose. But, again I am very scared to be on such a small dose, that I will have withdrawls. I don't want those I just want to make sure that I address the dr, correctly about this.Thanks again. God Bless,
Crystal
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Unread 07-31-2008, 09:22 PM   #16
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food is a issue for me too. I eat alot at one sitting and will snack thoughout the nite. even wake up in the middle of the night to eat. I try not to wake my partner. Not because I dont wont to interupt his sleep, well not mainly anyhow. mainly I dont want him to know that im doing it. so strange Im kinka hiding how much I eat. And that means that If i dont watch out im gonna be addicted to food. its really starting to bother me. IM 5'11 and wiegh 185. I know thats not too bad at all. but ive gained 15 pounds in the 3 months since on sub. I usually get alot of exercise at work but its been slow at the hotel and have only been working 2-3 days a week. I know that i need to start eating better quality foods more fruits and vegs.but All I really want is sweets and carbs. I wonder if it is just me replaceing food for my DOC. sometims I eat just because Im bored.. Or is the sub actually increacing my apitite. any thoughts anyone? have a good one-SHAWN
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Unread 07-31-2008, 11:16 PM   #17
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as far as the eating thing, every junkie ive ever known had a huge craving for sugary foods. U name it! Not sure if its opiates in general, I have heard of ppl cutting h with sugar. I have also seen many ppl coming off drugs & in recovery that now eat ALL of the time. They're no longer high all day & dont know what to do, they have an appetite,& food makes them feel good, so they eat! Sugary foods make us feel good cause they give us that sugar high/then crash & we get kinda sleepy.
the best way not to gain weight, IMO, would be to stop eating 2 hrs before bed. Do not eat in the middle of the night( I know this is hard, I used to go & eat a whole cake, kind of in a zombie like state.) u just have to ask yourself , are u really hungry?(your first answer will be YES! Then u have to ask yourself again & really think about it. Am i really hungery? Or do i just think i am cause ive gotten in this habit of eating every night.Once I did that I realized I was never really hungry, it was just a feel good bad habit I'd gotten in to) it was hard at first, but once u get used to it, & if u eat alot of little things through out the day(hi protein,good fats,good carbs,whole grains-loose that wonder bread & fake wheat ppl! U will wake up & u can have a big breakfast!u really just have to work on the eating at night thing. All of that food just sits in your body & then turns to fat.especially empty calorie foods.
and for sugary foods(which our bodies can't really burn & so its usually just empty calories)- if u can work on slowly cutting out sugary foods, by the time u stop eating them, you'll feel better,& u will loose weight! I thought it was all crap until I tried it 1day. I couldnt believe it but I actually lost weight!! I was shocked! The first five days were really hard cause I craved something sweet SO BADLY!! After a while, when I saw a donut by the coffee machine, I didnteven want it. The thought of it made me sick.(& the time I did have a bite of 1, I felt awful/sick after) I couldn't believe it! The cravings for sugar went away after I stopped eating it!! is a very addictive thing. I was a sugar-a-holic.
now I eat things that use artificial sweeteners.(yes I know they have chemicals instead of real sugar, but I'd rather eat sucralose & be thin) if u can make it past those first few days of craving sugar, you'll be fine. Good luck! And,@ night if u must put something in your mouth, maybe have some low cal juice to drink, maybe a BITE or 2 of dried fruit & almonds. But after a while, I stopped waking up at night.
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Unread 07-31-2008, 11:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kitty77

Saturn, the reason they start people out on s-utex, then switch to s-oxone is because at first I believe they're worried about relapse, so the tex doesn't have the naloxone. The naloxone is what will make u sick if u do any opiates. So in the beginning until u are stabilized, they keep us on the s-utex.
Hi, I just wanted to clear this part up. The naloxone won't make you sick if you take other opioids. It could cause precipitated withdrawals if someone injects suboxone. Otherwise it's clinically insignificant.

Some doctors will start their patients on -tex just to make sure that there's no reaction to the buprenorphine. It's the bupe that stops withdrawals and cravings and blocks other opioids from reaching the receptors.

If someone took opiods while taking bupe, it would be blocked, therefore the person wouldn't get sick, but wouldn't get any effect from the opioids.

Hope that helps.

Nancy
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Unread 08-01-2008, 10:58 AM   #19
kitty77
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gosh guys! I'm really sorry for giving out misleading/confusing info on the naloxone. I'm glad I did put " I believe", but I guess I shouldve put IMO, or in this case, IM(Dr's)O. I guess he told me that about the s-oxone to warn me about thinking I may be able to shoot it.(although I wouldn't. Although some ppl may) it wouldve been nice if he filled me in completely instead of saying "if youre thinking of trying to get high on it, dont! It'll just make u really sick cause of the naloxone"

So, once again, I apologize,& I'm going to edit it out of my post. Thanks Nancy. Sorry guys.
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Unread 08-01-2008, 12:04 PM   #20
OhioMike
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Quote:
quote:as far as the eating thing, every junkie ive ever known had a huge craving for sugary foods. U name it! Not sure if its opiates in general, I have heard of ppl cutting h with sugar. I have also seen many ppl coming off drugs & in recovery that now eat ALL of the time. They're no longer high all day & dont know what to do, they have an appetite,& food makes them feel good, so they eat! Sugary foods make us feel good cause they give us that sugar high/then crash & we get kinda sleepy.
Kitty is right and it is not limited to opiates. Alcoholics do the same thing! lol

Pass the candy bowl.

I think recovery is the perfect time for us to put many things in order and that includes health in general.

OMike
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Unread 08-01-2008, 12:15 PM   #21
kitty77
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so true mike! I think alot of us, including myself at first, thought this would be a miracle pill where u take it and everything is perfect! What ppl including myself have to see is that bupe is like a bridge for us to cross over into recoveryland. And that's the place where we get to rebuild our lives, families, friendships, & bodies!
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Unread 08-01-2008, 03:22 PM   #22
saturnmarie10
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Thanks Nancy, that explains the tex first, but nothing explains the inching up of lbs. I've cut out sweets, substituing fruit, cut way back on amounts, not having an occasional glass of wine and still having problems with the scale. Next thing is to cut down after 8pm and have nothing. It is difficult since most of my eating takes place after 5pm and I do like crackers for a snack or cereal. But these are life long habits and I haven't gained. I wondering if the bupe attracts Sodium and you have water weight retentsion or does it slow down the metabolism. Any thoughts........
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Unread 08-01-2008, 07:23 PM   #23
kitty77
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I have a question , are u measuring this by a scale? Or those favorite jeans that used to fit like a glove?cause if youre just using a scale, water weight can add alot of weight, so can constipation! It can give u false results. The best way to tell is if u just try on those snug pants & if all of a sudden u can't get them above your thighs, let alone buttoned, you'll know that you've gained weight.
are u on a high dose of sub? This is only something ive seen with other opiates before, so I can't speak for sub, but ive seen women in the past that were on WAY to high of a dose of their opiate DOC, & because it made them so lethargic & unmotivated, they would just sit there & eat,& gained ALOT of weight. Ppl can't sit there eating all night long, never moving except for the bathroom & kitchen.now in no way am I telling u to change your dose if u feel its right for u, I'm just trying to figure this one out because its also something I dont want to be worrying about in the future. & I think most women feel this way about weight, medication,& their bodies.
I would try to cut out eating later into the evening just to see if it makes a difference. Also eating breakfast helps to jump start your metabolism in the am. PLs let me know what your dr says & if u figure anything out.
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Unread 08-01-2008, 07:33 PM   #24
kitty77
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I have no idea how old u are. Do u think it could have anything to do with menopause? And did this only begin after u started taking sub? How long after u started sub? Or how long before? Have u done anything different than normal in the last few months? Stay strong & positive!
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Unread 08-01-2008, 08:33 PM   #25
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I started gaining weight, lots, the last 6months taking norcos. I went from a size 0-3 to a size7-9 and it is quite depressing as I'm cleaning out my closets while packing for my move. Really depressing. Those last 6months I started eating lots of comfort foods and sugar. I would walk to the store and buy a bag of candy bars and chips and demolish them all in the same night.
I've been on Sub 2 months and haven't seen a change either way. I haven't gotten my good eating habits back yet so I hope that I will be able to lose, at least some of the weight I put on. I'm not craving sugar like I was, but once you start eating badly it can be hard to get back to the good stuff. I used to eat lots of veggies and snack on fruits. Right now I still am comfort eating, eating to fill my emotions. I'm trying to get back to healthy. It really is a habit thing. I used to have no taste for bad foods. Once you start eating healthy all the time, like kitty said, you really have no desire to eat the bad stuff. or when you do it's not a free for all. At least that's how it is for me.
Personally i don't notice Sub. having an effect on my weight. I have a tendency to eat my mental issues away, or to sooth them and since I'm still dealing with depression and anxiety I'm eating too much.
Edit: I do have a question. Does anyone know if constipation can have an effect on weight? Not in terms of being a few extra pounds b/c of it, but does it actually mean that you are processing or ur metabolism is different? I don't know enough about physiology to know. It would seem to me that it can't since food is digested before in the stomach. I don't know how much goes on after the stomach and if anything that goes on could affect weight. If anyone knows more about this please chime in! Thanx
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Unread 08-02-2008, 02:26 AM   #26
kitty77
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as far as I know, once it reaches your intestines its considered waste by your body. And its just weighting(tee hee) to leave. I know the extra waste will add pounds on the scale, but never heard of it slowing the metabolism.
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Unread 08-02-2008, 02:40 PM   #27
saturnmarie10
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I have been on sub for 22 days now (consistent) I started back in February but could not tolerate the drug and came off, went back to DOC and then tried again. Until I got the 2nd epi and was pain free, the sub was not working for me. With your classification system, not mine I was not an addict but physically dependent on the drug Vicodin. I stayed within the parameters of the doctor's RX, but felt a need for more as my body grew tolerant to it. I started gaining weight in April and its been going up since. I normally weigh 135 lbs. I am 5'6inches tall with a small frame. I can fluctuate and do about 4 lbs. My weight has spiked to 146 and that is a lot for me. This was through the month of July. i started working out again since I had no pain and the weight has not come down. There are days when I eat fewer then 1000 calories and the scale still does not go down. Scale and clothes match. I am normally a size 6 to 8 now A 10, HARD squeeze to an 8. Very sorry to be complaining, but you guys are the only ones I can express my thoughts to. I believe the sub binds to Na in the body and produces water weight that you don't get rid of. I can't test my theory for obvious reasons. Does anyone know how long we are to be on this drug or is it individualized. Nancy, I believe your medical doctors should get much more training then the 8 hours because the several that I ran into didn't know----.
I'm keeping the faith and staying on. Can't afford a new wardrobe. Working 2 jobs now...........
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Unread 08-02-2008, 03:13 PM   #28
OhioMike
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Saturn,

To begin with, the doctors are not NAABT doctors. However, I agree with you 110% much more training is needed. I would like to comment on the water weight deal. I experienced a direct connection between water weight and circulation issues with my heavy use of vicodin and IMO when I tested a few claims about Sub going into the high dose range, I think it effected water retention. However I would like to point out a few things. First, I have vein issues in my lower legs. Second, I don't not believe that this is a possible problem for many, but, a few. Maybe you and I being in that group. And finally since the vicodin added to my problems, I am assuming that it is a opiate deal in general with my system and not any specific drug or medication.

I also have to be realistic in the fact that it may not have anything to do with the medication. When I change my diet, my problems get better or clear up. When I change my activities, the same. So at least for me, there seems to be more than one variable. With an opiate only possibly playing a role.

I don't know if this helps or not, but, that is what I have and do experience. Personally I would seek out someone who could address an entire host of possibilities and review your entire system. That has helped me the most.

OMike
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Unread 08-02-2008, 03:30 PM   #29
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Hi saturnmarie, I totally agree that there are doctors who need more than an eight-hour training class. As Mike said, the doctors are not from naabt. The certification is done through different medical organizations, but overseen by CSAT (the Federal Government's Center for Substance Abuse Treatment). Here's more information on that.

http://www.naabt.org/providers.cfm#pc

The length of time someone stays on bupe treatment should be between the individual and their physician. Some people can be successful with a short-term treatment (7 days is the shortest I've seen), others continue for years (8 is the longest I've seen). One should be ready both physically and psychologically to live medication free before tapering off.

Hope that's somewhat helpful.

Nancy
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Unread 08-02-2008, 06:01 PM   #30
calico_tabbycat
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I've developed some serious sugar cravings since being on this for a week. (Bup 4mg) I get up in the middle of the night and eat cookies, and I don't even feel guilty. I need to stop, somehow, because I already am enlarging...I've never craved so much sugar or even had such an appetite before. On the codeine, I just had no appetite, ever, and didn't crave anything in particular. Now I am hungry quite often and I crave specific things like cookies and cheese and yogurt. I've been trying to stick to watermelon, it's sweet and very good, without being bad for me.
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