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Unread 10-27-2008, 03:26 PM   #51
nove23
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Thanks Jerry -Iam very much so confused . Mostly with how I should be feeling.I want to get mad and just hurt him as much as he has hurt me. But that won't matter to him at all. He has hurt me over and over and I don't understand why.does he not love me any more at all?Does he not know that if I had not loved him I would not have stayed. Iam I not normal or Iam I the one who is crazy? Iam so lonely and he has someone -he has no bills I have them all -he has freedom and I have a 5 year old.He has a girl and Iam alone. Maybe I am crazy.......Thanks for listening Tina
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Unread 10-27-2008, 11:09 PM   #52
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Hi Tina,

I agree with what Jerry said- you have been betrayed and it is incredibly painful. You ask when will the hurt go away? I do not think anyone has the answer to that , as with any loss, sometimes it is said that people go through a grieving process : denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance. this is not to say you will go through each step, or even in a certain order, this is just one of many theories about loss and grief.
I was curious why he will not have any involvement with your child and how did you end up with the bills? Is this your son or grandchild you refer to? I looked back at older posts and was not sure, either way it is a child , who it seems he has turned his back on. I am sure you hurt for your child as much if not more than yourself.

Have you ever heard of or know of divorce group that meets in your area? I know someone who attended one and it helped her immensely. Maybe you are not even at that point yet, but just as with Al anon - having that support, not dealing with this alone, hearing how others have handled it may help you through this.
Also, I know someone in a similar situation as yours and she immediately started seeing a counselor and eventually began an anti- depressant, as she met the clinical criteria of what is called situational depression. I am in no way trying to suggest or diagnose you - just sharing in general what route she took.

I do not know if any of this helps, I wish the pain would go away and I can sit here and talk about growing through the pain, learning about yourself, but I am Sure that is not what you want to hear right now. ; )
I hope at least venting about it gives you some relief and you know there is someone here to "cyber " listen. Hang in there , you are not crazy, you are just trying to make it through a painful time !
Please take care yourself and give that child a big hug - I know a hug from my little one makes everything better, for a while at least. Take care , Carly
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Unread 10-28-2008, 12:48 AM   #53
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Hi Tina , I am " confused in Ca. " and lately I have been monitering your words and responses . My mother always used to explain the bizarre and unexplainable actions of other people as " they're mentally disturbed " She put that label on so many people that i began to think that she had a screw loose !
The thing is , there is a certain amount of dysfuction that some people have that is out of what we call " normal " . The real challenge is accepting certain facts and one of them is that there are somethings that we simply cannot change or even alter while not resorting to blaming ourselves .
Now how silly is that ? To blame ourselves for something that we have no control over ?
Positive thoughts my dear and confidence in your own self ....... you will carry thru and learn to welcome this as a learning experience that you can employ for the rest of your life .
God bless you Tina , be strong for yourself and the others who love you so .
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Unread 10-28-2008, 02:37 PM   #54
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Dear Carly , the child in this picture is my grandson that we have custody of him for the rest of his life. He has some problems. I don't know why he won't have anything to do with him. When he left he walked out from our business, home everything. He does'nt want to help out with anything.Iam a Navy wife and know how to make things work. But it's hell when you know your husband is with another woman and not with you after all these years of being there for him. And rasing another child. Bruce your mom was right I think there is something really wrong with him. But I can't let him rent space in my head any more. I will always love this man but not what he has done to me and our kids.Thank you both for being here for me . I hate to wine about him or my problems but it hurts still even after being apart for two years.My little one gives big hugs and kisses and I know he means it. God bless you both, Tina
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Unread 10-29-2008, 10:28 AM   #55
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Nove23~

Wow... reading down this thread had really made me think and also I feel like a lot of the things you've been going through I too have felt.

While you were married to your husband for 37 years... i was only engaged to mine for 5 before I walked away. Despite the difference in time, the feelings of love and caring and wanting to be there for the person are the same and that's what makes leaving SO HARD!! You want nothing more than for things to be "perfect like they used to be" but no matter what you do you can't make them that way.

I too like you have my good days and my bad days... days where i ask myself why did I put up with so much.. and day's where I ask myself was all of this really my fault like he said it was... but I think thats normal. It's only been 4 months for me... but it seems like everyday gets easier. I am surrounding myself with positive people and starting to remember that I am important.

A friend said to me "Remember Alicia... You are #1 and don't let anyone make you feel like your not. If they do they shouldn't be a part of your life". While that sounds kind of silly and at the time sounded selfish to me (since Im so used to giving and not focusing on me) I think its an important thing to keep in mind. These days Im doing my best to focus on the things in life that make me happy and trying to smile more!

I know that this isn't easy... but I remind myself that the HARD PART is over.. I've left and now I need to work on putting this all behind me. The pleading phone calls have pretty much stopped and so have the ones telling me how horrible and uncaring I am. When I get the urge to call him (which isn't as much as it used to be) I call a friend or try to occupy myself with something else.

Nove.... like I've probably said 100 times this isn't easy... but you are a STRONG person... and you CAN do this!!

~Alicia
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:33 PM   #56
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HI All,

Nove, Please do not ever feel like you are whining, this is your forum, a safe place to vent - when you post, you are actually helping others who read about your experineces and in turn they do not feel so alone !

I agree with Leasha - you are one strong lady to have taken the responsibilty for everything. Please remember that.
I do believe that when a child is involved, one tends to hurt for the child's loss as much, if not more than your own. A child is defenseless, an innocent in all of this and I hope he is handling this as well as can be expected. Do you have someone to guide you about how to handle what he may be going through?
When you say you alone in this, do you not have other family/friends to lean on and to give you a break? I am sure you need time for you? I know what a handful a 5 year old can be but at the same time a joy , a reason to push forward to provide them a happy, healthy life. Hang in there Nove!

Leasha, I am glad to hear you are working on putting this behind you and not falling into any traps he may set for you. Keep looking ahead and smiling : )

Hi Bruce, good feedback! I agree some things we just need to accept about others, easier said than done,but in time hopefully we can achieve this. And yes - Positive thoughts ! Thanks for sharing .

Hope everyone is having a nice day and take good care all , Carly
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Unread 10-29-2008, 04:01 PM   #57
nove23
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Dear Carly--Thanks to you and all for the words of hope and happiness. Yes I know Iam alot better off with out him. It's hard not to think about what could of been. Come to find out my son's wife left him yesterday for another guy. My son is just like me he does'nt drink but his wife did. I really believe he married his father. My husband called last night after he left my son's house and ask me not to call my daughter -in-law. I told him I had no plains of it. Iam not going to make her feel like my mother in law made me. I hate all this that's going on.But its not my business I will be there if he needs me. Boy I think I need a Al-anon meeting tonight. I almost ask my husband how can you go over there and tell him anything after what you did. BUT I did'nt.Maybe I don't love him any more. Maybe I never did. I really don't know . I think I just may be nuts..... Thanks for listening Tina
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Unread 10-29-2008, 10:56 PM   #58
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Hi nov - Did you make it to a meeting ? You are not nuts ! Far from it. Though I know when there is a lot of drama around or even in my life - I sometimes feel like I took crazy pills ! : ) Like stop the madness!
It seems to me you are dealing with a lot, I am sorry to hear about your son's marriage. And good for you for setting boundaries and refraining from letting your husband get to you yesterday !
Hang in there nov! Take care, Carly
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Unread 11-05-2008, 05:50 PM   #59
nove23
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Carly-Thanks for listening to me.It's been like reliving what happen to me with my son. and his dad has no feeling about it except move on. Can you believe that? I guess I should he is a alcoholic. Nothing he does makes any since. Things feel funny right now to me because I don't really miss him any more or feel like I love him. When I went to the hospital after he had his heart attack and he said I was'nt his wife that really hurt. But come to find out she did'nt go with him either her car was broke down and she did'nt have a way to go. But the feeling of him telling people at AA that I came up there making a ass out of myself was not true. And she told them I called and wanted to be friends. Not in this life time. I really just wish he would wake up and be some one but I know that may not ever happen. the hoildays are comming and I'am afraid I won't make it thru them. Is this ok to feel like Iam? Thanks for letting me share. Tina
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Unread 11-09-2008, 03:07 AM   #60
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Hi nove - I hope all is going well with you and your meetings are helping.
How is your son handling things ? I can see why what he is dealing with feels very familiar to you since it is a similar situation.
Do you think your son would be interested in Al Anon -(even though she has left) it may help him understand and give him support since his Dad is an alcoholic and now his wife may have alcohol related issues ? Just a thought.
I am curious - please do not feel obligated to answer, but you mentioned AA several times, I was guessing maybe your Al Anon group and his AA meetings meet at the same clubhouse which is why you run into his friends. Just curious.

Anyway, I hope you have had a nice weekend and all is well. Hang in there and take care, : ) Carly
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Unread 11-12-2008, 02:42 PM   #61
nove23
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Hi Carly Thanks for listening to me. No my friends are also AA people--they have been very nice to me since he left. They tell me not to go back. Iam doing better than I was before. My son is doing fine --one day at a time. I've ask him to go to Al-anon but he is not ready. But I will be there for him when he is ready. Iam doing alot better than I was . Had to tell myself he is not going to change. I can't think that this man will ever be normal.I have to get that stinking thinking out of my head. But I am going more for my meetings than ever before because I NEED it for ME. I will be ok with god's help and all the great friends I have met in Al-anon. Thanks for being here for me. Tina
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Unread 11-13-2008, 05:26 PM   #62
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Hi Tina,
You do sound great - and glad that you have the support and care of people in the rooms, I am so happy things are looking up for you ! : ) I hope it keeps on getting better ! take care, Carly
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Last edited by CarlyO; 11-13-2008 at 05:26 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 11-15-2008, 11:25 AM   #63
nove23
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Hi Carly-- Well I think I have fallen once again, and just wonder how many more times Iam going to. My husband came to work yesterday and told me if I loved him I would not say hately things to him. He knows he messed up but that I keep throwing it in his face. And he also told me that I was always cutting him down when we where married making him feel bad. I ask him if that warranty him to cheat on me not just once but all are marrage. I take owner ship of calling him names when he was drinking or had been out all night and I don't konw if he is dead or alive. Then he told me I just want him dead. I told him that was not true I just wish the man I knew would come back in his body.He did tell me that he does not want to be with me any more and that I never listen to him. It has to be my way or no way. I told him he was not going to control me any more . I was taking my life over for the first time in my life. Why is he still blaming me for everything? And that I should not blame his girl friend that it's his fault. She is also in AA and married so two of a kind flock together.Does he really hate me as much as he showes? Why do I let him get to me???? I gues it is over for us he does'nt want to work things out he said he is trying to live a better life but I have seen not signs of it. When I saw him his eyes where all blood shot just like when he drank. HELP!!!!!!
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Unread 11-17-2008, 10:01 PM   #64
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Hi Tina,
I am sorry I have not gotten back to you, I have been in bed with the flu -Tina and anyone reading this please get your flu shots asap ! I wish I had.

OK so you got pulled into his negativity, it happens, the best thing you can do is learn how to either avoid it or learn how to draw a boundary and say no we will not do this.
imo- He seems to need, or feels that it is acceptable to dredge up the past and blame you, I keep thinking what purpose does that serve?
Is there a way to not have any contact with him for a period of time, just until you become stronger ?

You slipped, pick yourself up, learn from it and keep moving forward, soon the good days will far outweigh the bad ones , it will happen - you are almost to the other side , you have come so far ! : )

Hang in there Tina, I hope all is going well, take care , Carly
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Unread 11-18-2008, 07:56 PM   #65
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Hi Tina

It's been a bit of time since we've corresponded and it saddens me that he still has this hold over you. It seems to me that he doesn't even want the hold he has and it's you that can't move on. He is telling you to move on but you won't or can't find a way to accept this.

Realize that he's going to spin this any way to make you look like the bad guy. That's the way it works whether it's true or not. He has made his decision with or without you.

You have so much hurt and I understand that. Hurt this deep manifests itself in anger and you are angry inside. You should be. What do you do with this anger?? YOU need to find an outlet that sets him free and in turn, it sets you free. Perhaps you need to just forgive him?? That may not sound like it makes any sense but when you let go of the anger and pain, you let him go. When you let HIM go, you let loose of the anger and pain.

I hate to see you suffer and hope, as always, that happier days are in front of you.

SLynn
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Unread 11-20-2008, 03:07 AM   #66
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Hi Tina,
Slynn had great feedback for you, many good ideas that will allow you to move past the hurt. I hope things are going better these past few days, yes?

I have been meaning to ask you how is your grandson doing, I will bet he is he getting excited about the holidays? I am sure having him there with you keeps you on your toes, but a joy at the same time.
Take care Tina, Carly
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Unread 11-21-2008, 10:12 AM   #67
nove23
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SLynn and Carly thanks for being in this wonderful place. You all told me from the begaining it would be a day to day thing with lots of up's and downs. You where right. But I hope there is going to be more good days than bad. I know this man will never be trustworthy. Because he does'nt feel like he has done anything wrong. But he will answer to that one day. I do have hope that my life is going to be better with or with out him. That I know how I have lived my life and have nothing to be ashamed about. It's hard for the hoildays but I will make it thru it. It is so hard to believe that we can let some one run our lives.I have heard so many woman that are out on there own now because they do'nt want some one telling them what to do. I know I still love this person and sure I always will. But not like he is. And I can't control him so it's up to me to take care of myself. Tina
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Unread 11-22-2008, 02:25 AM   #68
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HI Tina,

You will make it to the other side, keep pushing forward. Take the Focus off of Him and onto you, even your grandson, & others in your life.
Holidays can be rough for many people, they are not my favorite but now that I have my child, I make an effort to be enthusiastic and do things to make it fun.
You also have that precious child - make it fun for him, stay busy, go to your meetings, vent here.
Like Slynn said find an outlet for yourself. Learn to nurture and take care of yourself, especially since you have the responsibility of your grandson ( How is he doing? )

You can do this if you want it, do the work and you will reap the rewards : )
Have a great weekend Tina, take care, Carly
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Unread 11-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #69
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Hi Tina,

Just checking in with you - I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving and all is going well.
Take care, Carly : )
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Unread 12-02-2008, 09:22 AM   #70
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Hi Carly,

All is well here going to my meetings and doing alot of reading . I went to church this last sunday and the father most have known that my heart was very heavy. He talked about we can only worry about ourselves and no one else. I cryed all the way home and I know that what is going to be is going to be. My son is now going through the thing his wife left for someone who wants to drink and have fun. He is beside himself. All I can tell him is one day at a time. His father told him to move on and fine some one else. Just like a Alcoholic. My husband told me our son was hurting and I told him no fooling I remember how it feels when your spouce leaves you for some one else.
My hole family is falling apart. I just have to move on and take what ever comes. I was told at a meeting to turn the sound off and watch the picture.And he has'nt changed just moved on like always. But thank God for my meetings at least Iam able to talk to people with the same problem and look at it with open eyes instead of rose colored ones. I want to make my life better and not depend on my husband. He even told me one day to lean on myself not a man.What was that all about? Oh well Iam doing ok can only take it one day at a time and move on. Thanks for leting me share. Hope you had a nice thanksgiving. Tina
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Unread 12-02-2008, 03:26 PM   #71
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Hi Nove23,

If your husband told you to depend on yourself and not on a man, as an insult, then it is most likely a projected reflection of his own feelings of inadequateness. If he felt good about himself then he wouldn't feel the need to put you down.

We do need to rely on eachother to a degree, but ultimately it's up to you to decide what you want to incorporate into your life and what you need to let bounce off. Feed yourself with good, healthy information and over time you will maintain a good, healthy sense of self and lifestyle. Other people's problems have a way of inadvertently becoming your own if a certain level of self-actualization isn't achieved first. He is not your problem anymore. You have everything to gain because you have a mind of your own and a life to lead now that he's out of the picture. I think he's a little envious because he can't escape himself and that manifests as anger. Blow it off, it's not truth.

You are a courageous, capable, and outstanding woman. Let go so you can spread your wings and soar a little higher!!
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Unread 12-02-2008, 04:21 PM   #72
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Thanks Idolcrush,
It is so hard to let go of something you have had for 38 years. I know he is just saying things to make me mad and I am trying to just over look it. As they said at a al-anon meeting turn the sound off and watch the picture. And his is not good. I really feel like I have let him take my life away and I now have to find it again so I can move on. Iam just not sure if I want him in my life or not??????? One thing about this group I like is every one is up beat and makes you feel good. Thanks for making me feel good today. Tina
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Unread 12-02-2008, 10:22 PM   #73
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Hi Tina!

I'm glad you felt better today. It's too bad we all haven't known eachother for 38 years so we could have felt good every day! Part of the reason why it's so hard to let go is because your mind has created so much association with your husband, having known him for SO long. A lot of the attachment you feel towards him is based on the length of memory the mind has stored about this man. The good and the bad. I think you, like a lot of us, are a romantic to be able hold on to the good times and wish for their return. It is one of your qualities to be able to have hope for the future. It means that after all these years you are still able to see beauty in the world and that needs to be acknowledged. It's unfortunate that your husband can't see the world that way, but that's his issue. So the next time you have to speak to him and get caught up in the emotional turmoil he is projecting, just say to yourself, "Thank you God for allowing me to continue to grow and love." You are on the right path and will be able to look back someday with compassion for the person you once were, and love for the person you are and continue to be.

Best,
Natalie
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Unread 12-02-2008, 10:25 PM   #74
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Hi Tina,
I am glad you have your meetings and church for support, I think we do need others, just as I am sure you will be there for others in their time of need. Wow- it sounds like your son is dealing with a lot, I hope he is handling it all ok.
Idolcrush gave you some great feedback, keep pushing forward, and take care : ) Carly
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Unread 12-02-2008, 10:27 PM   #75
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Hey Idolcrush aka Natalie : ) - we were posting at the same time! Hope all is going well ! Carly
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Unread 12-02-2008, 10:35 PM   #76
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LOL, I noticed that too! =D Thanks for your post, BTW. Got through another day, SWEET!! I hope all is well for you too!!
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Unread 12-03-2008, 04:06 PM   #77
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Hi girls !!! We are having way to much fun. Iam going to be fine if I make it thru the xmas stuff. Well Iam glad to know that everyone is doing good . I just have days I want to know why he left and why would he since I stayed with him thru thick and thin???
But may be he does'nt know--Oh well I just have to move on for me and Dylon. As for my son it's very hard because he lived with his dad's drinking that he said he would not put up with that. And what did he do but married a person just like his dad. I just tell him one day at a time. Just remember she has the isom. I sure wish we had known each other for a long time to . Or better than that to bad we are'nt closer so we could have a real meeting together. Boy what a meeting!!!Well back to work will check in tommorrow . Take care Tina
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Unread 12-03-2008, 06:37 PM   #78
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Hello Tina

How nice to come back and find you in higher spirits and making light of things with others. That's an awesome sign! I can't recall the last time I saw humor in any of your posts and I love it.

Life is hard and adding the complication of alcoholism is just so frustrating. You mention that your son grew up with alcoholism and made poor choices as an adult.........when you look at Dylan just remember that you are changing his future by removing that from his life. At least to a degree.

My thoughts are with you and your son.

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Unread 12-04-2008, 01:11 AM   #79
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Hi Tina,

I wish we could all understand why the people we love, leave on such bad terms. Maybe it would be easier if they could tell us the reason. I think deep down they don't want to hurt us. They haven't matured enough to handle things any better and that's sad. And we're left to make sense of things which is doesn't seem fair but..we are stronger than that and are therefore, UNPUTDOWNABLE!! =D So for today, we let them be.
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Unread 12-04-2008, 11:24 PM   #80
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Hi all - Go Miss Natalie - making it on your own and such wise words : )

I loved what Slynn said about changing the future for Dylon, that is so true !

Why do they leave on bad terms..... You know it is said that an alcoholic/addict stops maturing when they start drinking, I personally believe this to be true as I could not cope with life, relationships at all , even once I put the substances down and was in recovery. I had to learn it through counseling and I chose to attend meetings , AA
I had walked away from so many people in my life, if it became uncomfortable otr interfered with my agenda - A hasty Goodbye, was all I could handle and it was painful I would just take something and make it go away. Ah, But, it lingers somewhere in the subconscious because I was in a world of pain when I stopped misusing drugs/alcohol and started feeling feelings/emotions !
Now, it is progress not perfection, life stuff still throws me for a loop many times, but I just have to keep working on myself. I do not know if that helps you understand why your Exs are behaving this way, maybe they just do not know any other way?
Does it make it right or hurt you any less absolutely NOT, your feelings are real ! That is why the ammends are built into certain programs and even in counseling - at some point and time, the A has to be accountable and deal with the past in order to live a healthy life.

Anyway- on a lighter note - Miss Tina - are you being Santa this year ? I will bet you have your hands full with your grandson yes? Natalie is this your baby's first Christmas ? Can you believe it is just a mere 20 days away ? Yikes !
Hope you all are doing well - take care - Carly
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Unread 12-05-2008, 09:26 AM   #81
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Carly,

This must have been ESP. I thought about you this am thinking I wish I could really sit down and talk with you because you have been there. I have been doing alot of reading in my al-anon books ever time I get down I read over and over about this isam. I have been told over and over that when he stop drinking he would have the mind of the age he started. I have also heard the first two years there brain is mush and the next three they are trying to figure out what to do with it. I tryed to help him with counseling but I was the one with the problem not him. Carly this is a unfair question but Iam going to ask is there any chance he will come back to us? Is his living with another alcoholic because it's easyer not to face what he has done? I know that I will be okk no matter what. And Dylon will grow up in a loving home . I know my husband loves him but I just don't understand why he won't come see him. This has been a bad year for us and hopefully it will get better. Thanks for asking about my son he is doing better, you know they don't want anyone to know they are hurting. I have been helping him fix up his house, so that has help us both. Some times I get scared because Iam not crying any more about him. That it's almost like I know Iam ok just have some days when you want some one to say it will be ok. I have another question should I send my mother in law a card for christmas even thou she said I am not her daughter in law any more that my husband's girlfriend is? Questions -questions and Iam not crying !!!!!I really feel great does that sound bad? Yes Iam going to be Santa-I've also decided that if he get Dylon anything that I will give it back --if he can't give him time once a week Dylon does'nt need him. Is that wrong? Ok enough questions Iam at work so I better get started. You guys are great.Natalie keep talking to me. And give that baby a kiss from us. Tina
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Unread 12-05-2008, 01:40 PM   #82
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Aww, Tina, you're so sweet. I'll definitely give my little a guy a kiss from ya'll. If he had a nickel for every kiss I gave him all day, he would be a very wealthy toddler. He's learning to kiss back now which is so cute!

I understand what you said about the 'not crying' thing. I haven't cried since I left my ex (almost 2 months ago)..maybe a tear here and there, but no crying. It's weird too because I would love to release the feelings that I know are there under the surface, but for some reason, I just can't do it. It's really easy to cry when I see someone do a good deed for another. And it's the time of year when you see that more and more so I feel really silly when I'm leaving Walmart and start crying in my car because a nice person put my cart back for me or something like that!

Your Al-Anon book sounds really interesting. Recovery seems like such a long process. I hope with all my being that our A's will learn how to love themselves and love us better. We have to be that which we want to create. Meaning, if we want to create healthy relationships, we have to work on being healthy ourselves. If we want a stable family environment, we have to be stable in our family environment. If we want others to 'come back to us', we have to never abandon ourselves. One of my thoughts is that I don't want to leave my ex. I want to be here for him but can't because he needs to be left to himself right now..AND, he may not even like me anymore. But we can be there for them in our prayers or meditation. They will feel it. Send them all the things you want to feel from them: gratitude, love, growth, stability, compassion, friendship. And the universe will respond over time. =) It's true with negative emotions also. If we wish them harm for all the terrible things they've done, we will only injure ourselves. As the saying goes, "Don't get even, get even better." So send a Christmas card to that bitter old woman. She cannot steal your grace and it sounds like she could use some kindness. And have a blast playing Santa this year. I'd even wear a fake beard and stuff a pillow in my shirt! Most importantly, continue to engage yourself in the world. It's a wonderfully exciting place.

Best,
Nat

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Unread 12-05-2008, 01:55 PM   #83
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Carly,

You described things so well in your last post. Since I've known my ex, all I've gotten are "Hasty goodbyes." I had this man's child and am raising him on my own. I want to know that I mean more to him than his quick exit. He once said that I am the best thing that ever happened to him; that I am the girl of his dreams. Maybe he will feel that again someday. Anyway, thank you for sharing that. It helped =)

It's baby's second christmas this year (he was born in October last year). I don't have any extra money this year but I have a fake christmas tree for us to decorate and maybe will wrap some of his old toys so we can tear them open and make a mess on Christmas Day! At this age I can still get away with it
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Unread 12-05-2008, 02:55 PM   #84
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Hi Tina,

I am glad you feel good, you deserve to be Happy !!
About your questions- here goes DISCLAIMER : this is just my opinion, not advising or anything and I am referring to AA because your x is involved with it - there are MANY other treatment options out there that work for people so please anyone who may read this - do not think I am saying AA is the only way. People use various support avenues many are listed in the links on this site and some people can just stop, they have had enough.

It sounds like your Ex. has moved on and like you say some days it hurts. Re: your questions, in my experiences,people I have known, it is suggested in the big book that if you are single , you NOT get involved in any new relationships for at least a year of working - really working on your recovery. Why you ask?
Because sometimes those relationships can be unhealthy replacements for the alcohol.
Example , some people put down the bottle but other addictions may crop up- gambling , sex, food addictions, to name a few. In my exp in the rooms, if someone is already married/ long term committed , then they suggest both people get counseling/help during the first year/longer and that the spouse of the A. attend Al Anon as well. Unless to do so would be harmful to the person or their recovery,or physically harmful, like domestic violence. But these are mere suggestions, there is no hard and fast rule.
If he was blaming you for HIS problems when you were in counseling - then what can you do Tina? You know you did not stick a gun to his head and force him to drink. The blame game will only get an A. so far before it starts backfiring - imo.

Tina ,I do not know why he will not have anything to do with Dylon. Can your son take Dylon to visit him, would he agree to that ? Maybe the GF does not you and your X together ?
Maybe he has his hands full with recovery , meetings etc? Have you considered how difficult it may be for your X and the new GF to maintain a solid recovery ? Being involved with another person who is also dealing with Alcohol issues is sometimes very TOUGH, it is doable but it takes a lot of work. What happens if one relapses ? Sometimes they relapse together, many things can happen, all I am saying is it takes a lot of vigilance. It may be fun at first to have someone to lean on, but in the long haul it takes a huge committment. Maybe they have it- only time will tell. Didn't someone here suggest forgiving him, that it would free you from the resentments? The word resentment means "the re-living of past painful experiences " .
You have worked so hard to get him out of your system would you want to open up all of those old wounds by wondering if ,in time, he will come back to you. YOU will be OK. Here is a scenario - I will bet one day ,when you have moved on and perhaps dating again, ; ) it may get his attention, but by then you may be thinking what was I thinking ? Why did I ever waste one tear on him ? I have seen that one played out many times.
Like Slynn said - you have a chance to teach Dylon how to live a healthy life, show him all of the love you can. I believe there is a reason Dylon in in your life !
My friend , the one I share about here - who has an Ex who is an active A./addict , has nothing to do with their daughter and it affects the daughter in so many ways. One night out of the blue she says why doesn't my Daddy love me, was it something I did ? WOW ! She is only 7 years old and feels such an adult reaction. My friend ,has to work very hard to raise her with healthy self -esteem and assure her this is NOT her fault. But so unfair that children have to suffer the consequences, they are truly innocent in all of this.

About the possible gift for Dylon- my friend rec'd gifts from the X - in laws ,who also have never taken time to call their grandchild. After much thought and counseling, she gave the gift to her daughter, in her daughter's mind that meant they DID love her and thought about her. My friend had a lot of emotions about it but felt she did the right thing. This is just my opinion, take the gift, I know what you are saying , if he cannot spend time with Dylon is he trying to buy his love? Anytime you can bite the bullet and take the higher road - I say do it, you are being the bigger person.
A Christmas Card to the in -laws , if it would make you feel good then do it, you have no control over how they react, that is their issue - maybe just a simple Happy Holidays and leave it at that. You may blow their minds with it, but it shows you can put the past behind you. Do they have anything to do with Dylon? Just curious about that.

Anyway- I do not mind answering questions, I just have to clarify this is my experience not trying to advise or counsel in a professional manner. You ask if our brains are mush the first year - mine was like pancake batter the first few months, I had done a lot of damage to myself and the reality of what I had done to others without the mind-numbing substances was very raw and painful. To this day- relationships are sometimes difficult, I cannot say I always do the right thing because I don't but I still attend counseling for various reasons and I have good friends who are my sanity and sounding boards when I get in a crazy place. Ok, now that I have written this novel I need to spell check it.

I am glad you are feeling good these days - YOU will be OK , in my humble opinion : ) Take care, Carly

Hi Idol Crush - I just saw your post, I hope you are having a good day, I will check back in later - at least it is Friday ! : ) Carly
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Unread 12-05-2008, 03:43 PM   #85
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Carly
Loved the book Well I heard alot of what you said and your right I had as heard for the first year not to get involved with some one else. Well he did'nt move her in until one year but she was with him all the time before that so maybe that was his year to him. Iam sure it is hard with the two of them having the same problem.I don't know and really it's not my problem any more. But I will always care. Do you think he knows how much I do care about him or has he really lost everything about his life? As for letting my son take him to see his dad--no way my son won't get in it. And I should not have to ask him to. I so much would love to know what he is thinking but I guess that will never happen anytime soon.I do thank you for being very honest with mw about it. I think I will be ok not sure about him. Dylon knows who he is we have lots of pictures out . So I want him to remember who he is.Life is really a short place to be now so maybe one day he will see things in it's ture place. Sorry I've go to stop will write latter. Tina
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Unread 12-05-2008, 09:53 PM   #86
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Tina

As I said before, I think you've come so very far. You may not feel it every day but I can certainly see it.

You can't control him. You can't understand him. You can't spend your life waiting for him to come around.

His decision making is based on a brain that's damaged from years of abuse. The decisions aren't rational and for us to expect them to be is our own downfall.

You've done such a good job at picking yourself up and making the most of your days. I hope you can reflect on how far you've come vs. what you perceive you have lost.

Thoughtfully,

SLynn
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Unread 12-06-2008, 10:55 AM   #87
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SLynn

Thanks I was so upset yesterday that I could not even finish posting. I am very upset with myself that I could even think this man is wroth anything for all that he has done to me and the kids. I called my oldest daughter yesterday and told her I was thinking about taking her day back and she got so mad at me she almost hung up. She told me she loved her dad because he was her dad but he was a big --- hole who only thinks of himself. She said she would be very disapointed if I took him back . Both my daughters say that. My son says why would I want some one who does'nt want me. My fear is spending the rest of my life alone. We or I should say I did things hoping we would have a good golden years. I've had many people tell me that I have come along way with out him and should be glad. I just don't understand some one that had everything going to just get up and walk away.And it 's my fault because I put him down.What about all he did to me. And what are friends think about him living with another women.This man has turned my hole life upside down. Is he doing this to really hurt me or does he just not know what he is doing any more??? I know I can't control him and don't want to I just hope he will some day understand what he has lost. When I talked to him I told him that he made all the decisions with out asking me how I felt. He tells me he know he mess the marriage up but did'nt know how to do the right things to make it work. And tells me he is living a great life now. What was life with me just hell? I think I could have handled him dieing better. I know that is bad to say but true. I hate when I get down like this and I know I have great friends and they don't understand why I have any feelings for him at all. I wish I did'nt. Any way Iam having a noght out with the girls tonight going to dinner and a play at the church. So it will be good to get together with my friends. Thanks for letting me share withyou how I was feeling. As my son says it is what it is. Hugs Tina
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Unread 12-07-2008, 06:44 PM   #88
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Hi Tina,

This is a process, getting over him, you are grieving, some days are good and some are crappy. But soon, the good days will outweigh the bad .

Absolutely I believe what you are saying about it would have been easier to see him .... than with someone else. I think many people feel that way at first, because it hurts and it stings, but you have no idea what kind of relationship they truly have, don't assume it is a bed of roses.

Your friends say you have come so far and are better off , your daughter was upset at the thought of you getting back with him, maybe becasue she knows how he is- listen to them, believe them, until you can believe it for yourself, everyday 24/7.

Being alone for the rest of your life ? hmm - OK Miss Tina, you do not know what great things are in store for you, I believe this 100% !! You gotta have some faith. Maybe just take it one day at a time, until you feel strong and confident. Then watch out ... here she is ; )
Some of the best relationships I have ever seen, are between people that met each other later, after their children were grown or after divorces , bad relationships...
I ask them what is their secret , I want what you have and they say - wisdom, compassion, understanding, patience, that they had been through bad relationships, divorces and knew what they did NOT want so this time around they knew what they wanted in a partner.
I believe when you least expect it - it will happen, but imo - you need to be over him, he is baggage that you do not need to carry around with you, it will just weigh you down.
You are growing everyday and if one day you want to be in a relationship think how healthier it will be because of what you have learned about yourself. Please do not ever settle for less you are worth having someone who truly loves you and treats you well.

I believe what Slynn said- all of it esp the part about others can see it - you just need to believe yourself.

I hope today was a better day for you, stay strong - hang in there and take care , Carly
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Unread 12-08-2008, 04:44 PM   #89
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Hi Tina - are you ok ? Hope you are having a great day !

Hi Natalie - hope all is going well with you too.

Carly : )
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Unread 12-08-2008, 06:08 PM   #90
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Hi Carly,

All is well. Thanks for checking in. Am still needing this site for support and am feeling relieved that I'm not right in the middle of my ex's addiction, feeling confused and scared about everything. I miss his good qualities and miss him but that's to be expected. =)

I hope we are all well today,
Natalie
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Unread 12-08-2008, 10:42 PM   #91
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Hi Tina

You have so much hurt, anger and resentment for your ex it's going to be hard to get past it without forgiving him and letting him go. YOU are the one suffering and the one who is left to pick up the pieces and it's understandable that you'd feel this way. HE has made his choice and he chose the alcohol life.

How could it not make you feel like a failure as a woman or wife that he chose someone other than you? It's enormously painful. But you'll never move past it if you don't accept and forgive him. These steps aren't easy and it takes time.....lots and lots of time. But once you've decided this is your choice it will allow you to move forward.

Again, you've come so far and I'm proud of you. Recognize the next steps and do what you can't to implement them. JMO...

SLynn
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Unread 12-10-2008, 02:28 AM   #92
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Hi Natalie,

Things have been super busy but I wanted to post a quick hello and so glad to get an update from you : ) Hang in there, it will get better. : ) Take care, Carly
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Unread 12-10-2008, 10:27 AM   #93
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Hi All

Well I've had some bad days they are going to foreclose on my business and my husband said he does not owe me a dam thing. But this will past to because everything is in his name. I've tryed my best to keep this place going after he walked out. And you know I really thought he was going to come back. But I should have known better. It's always about him, he does'nt care about anyone just himself. He is a dead monkey Iam dragging around and it's time to place it in a hole. I've only been thinking about my own needs and not my kids, the things he has done should be out there first not my feelings. My kids should should and will be first. My sponser is really upset with me because I always talk the word of a man and she and I don't know why. I guess "I" gave my husband that power. Not any more it's time to take my life back in my hands. I will be dam if he will hurt my feelings any more. He told me I did not want him to get solber. Ha-ha He did'nt want to get sober. This is one of the reasons he left. oh well !! Good bye to trash and now it's time for me to live a life I had no control over. But now I do.
I want my kids to look up at me and know I did the right thing. And they will be proud of me. I have to pray to God to let me forgive him and move on. He will get his pay back one day. I love this sight I feel like no one is looking down at me just because I keep falling backwards. You all help me stand back up and move on again.I want to feel and look better and no one can do it for me but me.Like Nat said I will miss he good qualities..... what are they?You know I really feel like a weight has been lefted off of me. I better get started Iam at work and done nothing. Take care thanks for listening. Love and hugs Tina
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Unread 12-10-2008, 12:12 PM   #94
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Tina

I think this is a good direction you are going in. You need to regain some self-respect and then you'll gain the respect of your family again...is that what I'm hearing from you?

Finding value in yourself will be a huge benefit. Your 'man' doesn't make who you are.

I'm sorry to hear about your business loss.

SLynn
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Unread 12-10-2008, 12:45 PM   #95
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Thanks, I still have a few months to get things going in the right road. That's if I really want to. Yes Iam changing my out look on life. I have to have self respect and I don't think I ever had any. But Iam now.There will be no mud slinging but I will make sure I get what I have work so hard for.If his feelings get hurt so be it. He did'nt think about mine.Everyone knows what kind of person Iam and what he is. So that's all that matters. Iam going to be great, not everyday but it's one day at a time. Love and hugs Tina
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Unread 12-10-2008, 01:45 PM   #96
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Hi Tina! I'm gonna rant, here it goes...

How typical it is that your husband would respond with losing the business with, "I don't owe you a damn thing." It really is all about him and he has no caring feeling for his family which speaks mountains of his bankrupt mentality. He is not just a broken man but he is toxic. My ex has responded to legal obligations with me in the past by saying the same thing. We signed a lease together and he told the landlord that he's "washed his hands of the situation" and threatened the landlord that he would sue him if he contacted him again. What a loser! The LANDLORD has all the legal rights here. I just got lucky because the landlord liked me and said he would take no legal action for us breaking the lease. It was because of ME that we didn't have to suffer the ramifications of my ex's ignorance and foul temper. Your husband has it coming to him. His day is coming when he will have to start carrying the burden of his past actions. And even though it will be dealing with the loss of the 'business' and not the loss of his family, he will feel quite stressed and made to be accountable for something. In fact, I would serve him with the divorce papers at the same time, if you're ready to move on. Don't let him try to scare you with making it seem like it's YOUR problem. He's denying any role in your life because he knows how bad he screwed up and can't bring himself to acknowledge that. He said you "didn't want him to stop drinking"?! WHATEV!! That is called transference and projection at its best. He was talking to himself..HE didn't want to stop drinking, then blames it on you. And he tells you this because he knows you will just take it. He knows you are sensitive and he knows how to get to you. Pure manipulation. He still wants to punish you and make you suffer for standing up for yourself. He's like a cantankerous little monkey and it's time to say, "Hey little monkey, I'm gonna leave you on the side of the road now, right where I found you; good luck!!"

You may notice that I'm pretty peeved. Yesterday I went to check the mail in hopes that I would have a child support check and of course there wasn't anything in the p.o. box. I was so mad because I feel like a victim and I hate feeling that way! When I spoke with my best friend she asked if I feel like a 'victim' or do I feel 'powerless'. I told her it feels like the same thing and that I feel both. My ex has said those exact words when I asked for the child support check. It was humuliating enough to have to ask but then he said, "I don't owe you anything and if you want a handout then just ask." I said, "Ok, can I have my 'handout' please?" He still didn't give it after I bowed down to his almighty power and THATS why I feel powerless, even today because today I still need his financial support to help pay for our son. He knows this and doesn't bend. I feel like I'm getting spit on everytime I go check the mail then have to walk away and try to figure out how to make ends meet this month. After everything he's done I'm still being affected by this nasty little monkey and I resent it. My friend was happy that I was finally angry about it. Somewhere along the line I decided that it wasn't okay to be really mad when someone has done something horrible to me. Maybe it was because my mom was an abusive alcoholic. I loved her but she hurt me..bad. And getting mad at her only got me more abuse and further pushed my love for her aside. I love my ex very much. He is the father of our son. If he needed my help to get him sober I would absolutely be there. But I'm no fool and I will not play victim to his continued abuse and manipulation. I'm finding ways to support myself and our son and in the end I will be even better yet. I've been afraid of getting angry at him because I'm afraid I will lose him once and for all. And I vacillate between wanting to hang in there and truely moving on. But the more time that passes, the more crap I have to swallow and I know that I DON'T DESERVE THIS. You don't either, my dear Tina. And neither does our family. Do what it takes to empower yourself and I will too and someday we will be free of the dead weight we've been holding on to. And then we will see that love doesn't and isn't suppose to hurt.

"Water is powerful. It can put out fire and cut through stone. And when it is trapped, it will make a new path for itself." We will make a difference in our lives.

Love,
Nat
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Unread 12-10-2008, 02:58 PM   #97
CarlyO
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Hi Tina,

Wow, as if the holidays were not stressful enough ! Tina I am sorry about the bussiness, I am sure you poured your blood, sweat and tears into it esp after he left. Will you get anything from it ? Peace of mind at least ?
I am glad you all share because you never know who is reading and just not posting, because they are not used to the whole forum gig, but are going through similar experiences and your words are helping them, I am sure of that.
I can honestly say that there are only a few people I know that are NOT having financial issues, it is affecting everyone, they best thing we can do is support one another, I wish things were different, but this is yet another storm to weather. I know that does not help much, but Tina you sound like such a fighter, tap into your inner Ali or de la Hoya and keep pushing through this- Like Nat's last great quote about water being trapped and makes a new path for itself.

I wish I had words of wisdom, all I can say is that I hope you are having a better day today. Take care of yourself , Carly
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Unread 12-10-2008, 03:16 PM   #98
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Hi Natalie, I like that last quote, a lot.

No you do not deserve any of this,neither does your sweet child. Maybe as time passes, you will feel less of a pull to him because unless he gets help, it will be like stepping back in time, the same situation, the same everythng you VS. the alcohol/drugs.
I can see why you are peeved and vent away if you need to.
Non payment of child support at Christmas no less. He cannot just Ignore a court order to pay, they will catch up with him and garnish his wages. I think trying to do it one on one without the help of the court may not get you anything.
Have you contacted your local support office? Do they know where he works? By law, at least here, the employer could actually get into trouble for not taking the court ordered payments out of his pay check and sending them to the Child Support office.
I could not remember if you had gone to court over this, I think you did, I say keep calling and telling your worker you have not received payment. The squeaky wheel usually gets the oil first.

I hope he will come through with some $$ by Christmas, or at least maybe your clients are in the Christmas spirit and tip you very well. Either way, hang in there. Hope you are doing well today, take care, Carly
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Unread 12-11-2008, 09:44 AM   #99
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Nat and Carly

You guys are great. I really like the words to make me take back my life. Iam a fighter and will not let this take me down. I will have better days because I know I did everything I could to save this marriage but if there is only one working at it nothing will happen. Got to run this am lots a jobs to do today and it is going to rain all day. I will write later . Thanks you two. With love Tina
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Unread 12-12-2008, 12:07 PM   #100
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Hi Nat,
Thanks for all the good up beat. Your right love should not hurt. Well it's ok he has to deal with what he has done to everyone. Iam going on because God has told me to and Dylon needs me and so do my kids.Life is going to bring me and you both good things . We are very good people and thats what we have to remember . They are the sick ones and we can't change that Only they can and in there own time.I still catch myself thinking about him but know there is no reason to. It's over and that's it. But I will be ok no matter what. And you are strong and that's what matters. Not only for you but your little one.

Thank goodness we have this sight to come to and vent. That's what keep me going. Han g in there we will be ok. love and hugs Tina
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