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Unread 12-05-2008, 10:45 AM   #1
Bart
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Default 6 months 32-4mg Help!!!!

I am new to this site and think I may be in trouble. I came off 180-200 mg a day of methadaone that I was on for a while with bad back pain. (first 3 weeks of transition was HELL because the subutex wasnt strong enough to equal the mg of Methadone I took). The place that helped off of methadone and on to subutex was in Texas and charged me an arm and a leg to stay in program. Its been six months now and I need to go for a visit from Az to keep it going. To far for me.
Question! I went from 32 mg to 4 mg in that 6 months. I now have 60 2mg tabs left and really worried that it wont be enough to tapper myself to freedom. It seemed that when I tried to go to 3mg a couple weeks ago I went through WDs enough to keep me down and back to 4mg. Do I have enough to reduce to nothing? If I have enough, what would be the best recipe for me that is reasonable.

Thank You, I look forward to as much insight as possible.

Bart

Last edited by Bart; 12-05-2008 at 10:51 AM.. Reason: Wasnt clear on myself changing over to subutex in begining paragraph
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Unread 12-05-2008, 12:45 PM   #2
bobbyxx
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bart,

what i did is go .25 mg at a time, in 7-10 day blocks..

im down to .50 and i have to say that i barely felt the drop.

take it slow and you can do it!

try going to 3.50 on your next drop and keep .25 for later in the day just in case. sometimes even the smallest amount can carry you thru!


good luck




-rob
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Unread 12-05-2008, 01:29 PM   #3
NancyB
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Hi Bart and welcome. Here's a thread with people's tapering experiences:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=16678

It's hard to predict if what you have will be enough to taper down and off comfortably, as everyone is different. If you find that it's not enough, please have a back-up plan.

You might want to see what the availability of physicians in your new area is by using either the locator: www.naabt.org/local or the Patient/Physician Matching System:
https://www.naabt.org/patient_doctor/patient_login.cfm

bobbyxx's plan just might work for you. Have you tried going from 4 to 3.75 or 3.5 since going to 3mg wasn't working?

Keep us posted.

Best wishes,
Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 12-06-2008, 02:49 AM   #4
joshfarc
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Bart, I know you can do it! Good luck with this! Go slow, and be patient, but also try to plan ahead since you are running out of the suboxone. You say you have 60, 2mg pills........you might have to rush the taper a little bit, but I don;t think it should be to drastic.

I was on 16mg for 2 years. I have been tapering as well, and after going from 6mg to 4mg over about 2 weeks, I have now gone from 4mg to 3mg for about 8 or 9 days and it's been completely fine. I would suggest you get down to 2mg as soon as possible, and then go slow from there.

Here is a hypothetical type of taper for you, and don't take this as exact science. Listen to your body, but try to push yourself, while staying busy in your taper(I mostly say this because you are running out of suboxone. If you can manage to get another prescription you could take all the time in the world).

You have 60/2mg pills
  • Start taking 3mg a day for 10days(15pills)
  • Take 2mg for another 10days(10pills)
  • Take 1.5mg for 10 days(7.5pills)
  • Take 1mg for 10 days (5pills)
  • take .75mg for 10 days (appx: 4pills)
  • take .5mg for 20 days (5pills)
  • take .25mg for 20 days (2.5pills)
  • drop off (with 10 pills of your 60 left)

Now this is just an "off the top of my head" type of suggestion I quickly typed up(i like math ). As you can see, and as i have read and heard, the tapering from 2mg and lower is usually the toughest. I have felt no problem going from 4mg to 3mg, and didn't even stabilize long on 4mg. Sure, you might have some minor problems(sleeping, bowels, etc), but I bet you will be very glad you pushed yourself initially to get down to 2-1mg.

If anyone wants to modify my little "plan" please do. I just think Bart, that 60pills is still enough to taper, but push yourself when you wake up tomorrow to start! The quicker you get to 1mg and under, the longer and more patient you can be tapering all the way off. Notice that you could spend an entire month taking .5mg a day and only really using 7-8pills.

Just stay busy, realize you can do it and will do it. Know people are here to talk to, and people are in similar situations(though I still have a local sub doctor I am planning to taper off quicker than that plan). Lastly, if you can, get another prescription of suboxone if possible, if not know that a taper is very doable.

Hope to here from you!
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Unread 12-06-2008, 12:14 PM   #5
Bart
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Josh, Thanks for going out of your way to do some math for me. That was exactly what I was looking for. The kinda cool thing is that I keep my meds in the gun safe, and when I went in there yesterday, I found two weekly pill boxes that had 10 1/2 2mg tabs in it which leaves me with 70. What a relief that was. You know as well as I do the fear that grips our hearts when we have to face withdrawl. We most of the time will go to just about any measure to not face it. But I dont want to go that route again. I spent 3 weeks of absoloute misery withdrawling from methadone when I started the subutex before it began to work. That was a long long time to suffer, but nothing compared to what I would have faced without it. I promised myself I wouldn't put myself in that position again.

When I noticed that there wasn't much reply or a formula that I could maybe look at, I began to worry. I went to a NA meeting {for the first time in 25 years} last night looking for some sort of support and felt completly out of place and with no answer. I live in a small town and seemed as though 90 percent of the people in there were teens coming off crystal meth. So when I got up this morning and saw you have replied with an idea. I felt relived. Thanks to Bobby and Nancy also who made the effort to help.

I do have a question though. What does everyone mean when they say "Have a back up plan"?

Please keep this thread going so I have something to come back to. I really do need the support. I have been struggling this last week and y wife who is a great support, just doesn't really understand.

Have a great day all. I look forward to your replies

Bart
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Unread 12-06-2008, 01:09 PM   #6
NancyB
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Hi Bart, by a back-up plan, it means just in case you need more time than the 70 pills will give you. It might help just to see if there are doctors in the area who are accepting patients. Sometimes just knowing that there are options makes it go better because there's not undue pressure on make it work.

It seems that when people are more relaxed and positive about tapering, it goes better. Keeping busy, exercising, eating well and vitamins, especially B and B-12 also seems to help.

Keep posting!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 12-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #7
joshfarc
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Glad to help Bart.

I'm glad you came up on an extra 10 or so pills too, that should help even more with a "cushion", and can give you more time to taper, if necessary. Nancy is pretty much spot on about a "back-up plan", as usual. Having that knowledge of either a close doctor or extra pills can be the cushion that keeps you from worrying and might actually speed up your taper...it's weird how our minds work.

Once I knew that I had excess suboxone(I have tons), I tapered really fast compared to my original plan. I am probably months a head of the original plan that me and my doctor thought out(it was a very slow plan, which is fine). Just know that I'm doing exactly what you are, tapering from about 3mg for me right now, after 2 years of 16mg dosing.

Be confident, keep your mind busy, try to still have good eating habits, and exercise whenever you can(it's very beneficial, and something I should do more of). I take a chewable B complex and regular multi-vitamin as well, and a vegetable supplement, and I think this might help my body....but I just enjoy acting healthy! I just dropped from 4 to 3mg and it was pretty dang smooth for me, so I know you can do it! Tapering is not an art to be feared anymore Bart! Don't fear withdrawals, because they are so minimal they are hard to notice. Confront the taper and be glad you are pursuing this goal of tapering off with a plan(i know this helps me).

Bart, I would suggest you try and get to the online chats on this website, since you are a new member and tapering. They are on Tuesdays/Thursdays/Sundays, all around 7:30pm eastern time. Plus, we're always on the forums, so if anytime you feel lousy, get to a meeting, call someone, or come on this site and post.

I'm not just helping you....you actually help me as well. Knowing another person is at a very similar position in their subooxne recovery/taper is comforting for some reason.
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Unread 12-07-2008, 04:37 PM   #8
Smith
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Hi Bart

Josh's lttle taper seems fine with me. I agree drop fast in the begining and slowly at the end.

The question that is realy inportant, is are you stoping bupe for the right reason? are you an opioid misuser aka addict? If so, I wouldn't worry about coming off bupe instead I would fallow the route of finding a regular doctor who can prescripe you bupe that is closer and cheaper. Then once you have a new doctor. Work on recovery, If not NA or AA, then something else. Geting free of bupe without WD is great, unless you have the diease of Substance Misuse Disorder SMD. Because then once free, you will just go find another source of opioids or other drugs, or gamble, spend money, over eat what ever. So it's not actually a solution.

Only you can decide, but if you have SMD, the goal IMO would be to make you bupe last until you can get a new doctor closer and for less money. I'd look for one that is like ~or<$100 a visit, and what ever for the script. You can save a lot of money by cutting the 8mg pills up. I used to uses a pill cutter, but now just use a exact-o-knife. You can get 2 mg easy, one mg is a little harder, but can be done with practice. If you have SMD once there at 1to2 mg a day, you can worry about then using the 2 mg tablets. The rest of the way, and it would be a long way off. Have you looked at this http://www.na.org/pdf/litfiles/us_english/IP/EN3107.pdf, do you use opioids in spite of negative consequences? It something for you to decide. People with SMD will often feel if they could just get off the opioid they would be fine. Not true. For example I was abstinent for several years, but sick as hell, and just didn't know it. One friend died, who had asked me for help, right before. Since I had no recovery, only abstinence I could not help him, I didn't know how, or what to do. Bupe was even just coming on the market at that time, he could of use it and lived. I was one of just a few friends he had left, so who else would he turn to?

Anyway just think about it and find out for your self, so you can make the right choices. If you for sure do not have SMD, tapering off using a plan like Joshes should be a breeze.

Either way I would find a doctor soon, just in case. Use Nancy's links.

Good luck and where here how ever it turns out.

Keep us updated, many of us do care.

Smith
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Unread 12-07-2008, 06:02 PM   #9
nursejoan
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Hi I started on 8 mg a day in june of 2006 and increased to 32 mg aday over a couple months.I have only gotten down to 16 mg a day it has taken over 2 years but I have not had any problems decreasing my dose. each time i went down 2 mg and stayed that way for several months. I have never noticed any change.I think your decrease may have been to fast but everybody is different and for some that may be o.k.. It also took me several months to get my dose up to 32 mg each time i went to my doc they increased it because i was still haveing cravings.at 32 mg i found i was no longer craving any other drugs. I am on ibruprophen for my pain.the ibruprophen works great now but it never helped when i was takeing 40 or more narcotic pills a day.I hope you find out what works for you and do not give up.Best wishes,gAIL
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Unread 12-07-2008, 06:18 PM   #10
flier1
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I started out at 16mgs back 2 yrs ago, when I would feel myself not being my self like I was sleepy, no energy I would decrease my usage by 2mgs and now I am at 1mg every other day and holding there I take my time I will know when I am ready my body tells me it is just my mind that I need the help with and I am getting that by one on one counseling , hang in there you can do this.

Helen
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Unread 12-07-2008, 10:35 PM   #11
theswan
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Hi Bart

I'm dropping too. I am now at 14mg from 16mg but it only day two. I am lucky to have more then enough. I am not too sure why but I have extra pills. I have a feeling I may have forgotten to take a dose here and there. that is good news for me.

I believe you do have enough by the quick math I did so don't worry but indeed a back-up is wise. just to ease the mind if nothing else.

Glen
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Unread 12-07-2008, 11:07 PM   #12
Bart
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Thanks everyone. I stepped down to 3.75 mg yesterday and was gonna see how it turns out for me in the next few days.

A little history is I started on pain meds 10-12 years ago sor my back pain that is still with me. I did abuse it once in a while and at the last 3-4 years my doc put me on the methadone sarting at 50 mg. BIG MISTAKE. The last year of my pain ordeal I began to use more and found myself needing more. you all know the story. Well crap! You wouldnt believe who moved in next door. Someone who was prescribed 280 mg a day. OMG I thought that was nutz. She was only taking 50mg and fed me the rest. I was screwed at the end from Feb to April when 18-20 wasnt cutting the pain issue anymore. What the heck was I gonna do? Well I found Subutex. Been almost 7 months now since ive touched pain meds. Except for Subutex. I found myself scared to drop my dose due to fear of Wds. I do consider myself an addict and am in a type of NA at a church near my house called Sober Recovery.

Man you all are great. I look forward to turning on my puter and reading all your posts and expeiances. Thanks alot..

Swan, Flier And Mom. We will make it. I firmly believe we need the support of others though. i look forward to getting to know ya all.

Bart
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Unread 12-08-2008, 09:05 PM   #13
Sub-Zero
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Hi Bart 32-4mgs is only about 1/2 way 4-0mgs affects many more brain receptors see this thread about the last bit of taper.http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...highlight=2mgs

Withdrawal is a symptom of brain adaptations, so if your brain hasn't had enough time or conditioning to adapt back those symptoms of withdrawal will come back when you taper, and last for months. If you were able to change the brain while in treatment, you'll still have some withdrawal for a few days after you stop but then you'll be fine. I was on sub for years made many changes in my life and tapered very slowly, so when i stopped I didn't even miss a day of work. If the withdrawal is too strong it's a sign you are tapering too fast. Good luck.
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