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Unread 02-05-2016, 02:55 PM   #1
Mama2
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Posts: 3
Exclamation Anxiety and nodding

Hello, I started Subutex 4 months ago for opiate use for 2 years. I have fibromyalgia, joint pain, epstein barr, and foot pain. I had several surgeries and 2 painful foot surgeries with long recoveries. I became dependent on oxycodone and dosage wasn't helping so I started to take more here and there. I was precribed 10 mg 4 x a day and taking 20-30 mg 5-6x a day. I was running put every month. I am a professional and mom and couldn't deal 20th withdrawal so I found kratom for when I had no more. It was a horrible cycle and my life became about having meds. I felt like a million bucks and energetic when on the meds...but cranky and depressed and in a ton of pain off the meds. I finally found a pain management doctor that would help me stop this and treat my pain. I was so embarrassed that I told nobody and still haven't told anyone. The PM Doc put me on Subutex (suboxone gave me a headache the first week) . I am given a script for 2-2mg pills to take 3x a day. I take 1 1/2 in morning and as the day goes on it seems to build up so I only take 1 the other 2 x. I take 6 1/2 mg a day. If I am resting, I nod off and feel extremely sedated...I can barely move. I also get light headed at times. I don't like that. I still sometimes wish for the pain relief and burst of energy from the oxy ...which I thoughtwould be gone. Also, I started having panic attacks while on oxy and still get them. Never had them. Could they be caused by subs or any opiate? I am now mad that I also have to ween off these. I feel trapped because it kind of works for some pain and keeps withdrawal away as long as I take it...but I went from one dependent med to another and when I get off these ....the longer I am on subs the harder the ween in I heard! I don't feel free. I am so so scared to take any benzo or antidepressant or anything with subs in fear of dying. Subs and benzo can be too much for the respiratory system. I also lately have been shirt of breath...running out of breath when talking and having to take deep breaths...is Subutex causing breathing problems? I am 47...I hate to see how I feel at 70. I have 2 small children. I want to be healthy for them. Tired of pain....tired of side effects....tired of dependemce....but I feel trapped
...due to withdrawal and pain. Please...any help with answers will do. When AND How To Decide To Get off....and what about panic attacks and side effects and breathing drowsy issues. I feel like I rely on this med also now to "feel good" to deal with life.
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Unread 02-05-2016, 05:23 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Mama2, welcome. Sorry to hear you're having all of those problems. A couple of easier things first. The length of time doesn't have a bearing in how difficult it is to taper off. It's all in how you taper. And if you do the work necessary while taking the medication - such as fix anything that was damaged during active addiction - finances, relationships, etc. Get help for underlying conditions, such as depression and anxiety. This is a good thread to read:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=23809

If you are nodding off and feel extremely sedated, chances are that your dose is too high. You're correct in it builds up because buprenorphine has an average half life of around 37 hours. You could try cutting your dose down more, but because of that long half-life, it might take a few days to notice a difference. And if you still don't, you could try to reduce even more.

The analgesic properties of bupe generally last 4 to 6 hours. But it doesn't help everyone for pain. That's kind of hit or miss. But for the people who get pain relief, they take small doses 1 to 2 mg, every 4 to 6 hours.

There are people who are prescribed benzos with buprenorphine. It becomes an issue when people take large amounts of benzos, and often along with other respiratory depressants such as alcohol. That's where the fear comes in. But people who take benzos responsibly generally don't have issues.

There shouldn't be a problem with SSRIs or wellbutrin and bupe. Those are very commonly prescribed together. If you are fearful, talk with your pharmacist.

Have you ever been treated for the panic attacks before? It could be something that developed while taking the opiates and are just continuing. Are you seeing a therapist? That might be helpful to see one who can help with anxiety.

I hope some of this was helpful.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 02-05-2016, 06:17 PM   #3
Sam Bailey
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Hello Mama,

You present a lot of information in this first post. Not a bad thing. A good thing, actually---but maybe a smidgen too much to cover in one easy reply.

So, how about we take this in smaller portions? I'll start and, I'm certain, a batch of other members will come along and offer their own thoughts, ideas and advice.

First, Sub Is likely the most unusual medication you've ever stumbled across. It was sure a mini-puzzle to me when I first discovered it.

"Less is more" is one of the clichés you may have heard. It's true, Sub is an especially potent med, though that does NOT mean that taking more of it will necessarily increase its effectiveness. Yeah, counterintuitive, I know.

Point being, for you, for now: you may be taking too much per day. You might try taking, instead of 6.5 mgs per day, say 2-3 mgs per day. Perhaps better effectiveness, with far less sedation.

Also, you may find those other complaints far less severe. In fact, they may disappear altogether, from the panic attacks to the light headedness. Et al.

Lastly (for now), you say
Quote:
"I am now mad that I also have to ween off these..."
Now? After just 4 months, you "have" to taper OFF this medication that has kept you away from the dope that was ruining your life?

WTH!

Unless you have some sound reason WHY you have to stop taking Subutex so soon, please consider NOT stopping. At least not after JUST 4 months.

See Mama, there is a whole lot more to recovery from opiate addiction/dependence than merely ending one's use of opiates. WHY we took opiates in the first place needs to be determined. If for pain, ok---but then why did we continue with them once the pain had ended?

Why, we wonder, is there such a raw, gaping hole in our gut that we believe filling it with drugs will help heal our misery and heartpain?

These questions, when asked, always lead to more questions. Recovery is determining the questions and then finding the answers, without using dope or booze to "help" in any way, since both dope and booze is always a lie.

The use of Sub gives use the opportunity to answer some of these questions without having to deal with the insanity of "scoring" enough opiates to keep us from being sick. It gives us a chance to talk to a therapist...and to join a Support Group where you can meet, eyeball to eyeball, other women and men who are in the exact place you are, or HAVE been where you are, and can tell you how THEY managed to recover their lives.

Active addiction is an awful place, full of constant noise and chaos. Chatter and racket and madness, it's everywhere we turn.

I mean, really, who of us can think clearly in that kind of atmosphere?

Clarity is you friend, Mama. Seek it out, please. Don't give up before the miracle happens. Yeah, that's a Program cliché. But hell, it's totally true.

best,

sam
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Unread 02-05-2016, 08:15 PM   #4
morphing
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Hey Momma,

You've received advice and guidance from two of the best people available. The only thing I can say is I agree, your dose is probably too high. I was started at 20mg per day (2-1/2 strips per day), and quickly reduced that to 6mg per day. I feel much better now.

Please keep us posted!
Morphing
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Unread 02-06-2016, 08:44 AM   #5
Mama2
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Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Bailey View Post
Hello Mama,

You present a lot of information in this first post. Not a bad thing. A good thing, actually---but maybe a smidgen too much to cover in one easy reply.

So, how about we take this in smaller portions? I'll start and, I'm certain, a batch of other members will come along and offer their own thoughts, ideas and advice.

First, Sub Is likely the most unusual medication you've ever stumbled across. It was sure a mini-puzzle to me when I first discovered it.

"Less is more" is one of the clichés you may have heard. It's true, Sub is an especially potent med, though that does NOT mean that taking more of it will necessarily increase its effectiveness. Yeah, counterintuitive, I know.

Point being, for you, for now: you may be taking too much per day. You might try taking, instead of 6.5 mgs per day, say 2-3 mgs per day. Perhaps better effectiveness, with far less sedation.

Also, you may find those other complaints far less severe. In fact, they may disappear altogether, from the panic attacks to the light headedness. Et al.

Lastly (for now), you say Now? After just 4 months, you "have" to taper OFF this medication that has kept you away from the dope that was ruining your life?

WTH!

Unless you have some sound reason WHY you have to stop taking Subutex so soon, please consider NOT stopping. At least not after JUST 4 months.

See Mama, there is a whole lot more to recovery from opiate addiction/dependence than merely ending one's use of opiates. WHY we took opiates in the first place needs to be determined. If for pain, ok---but then why did we continue with them once the pain had ended?

Why, we wonder, is there such a raw, gaping hole in our gut that we believe filling it with drugs will help heal our misery and heartpain?

These questions, when asked, always lead to more questions. Recovery is determining the questions and then finding the answers, without using dope or booze to "help" in any way, since both dope and booze is always a lie.

The use of Sub gives use the opportunity to answer some of these questions without having to deal with the insanity of "scoring" enough opiates to keep us from being sick. It gives us a chance to talk to a therapist...and to join a Support Group where you can meet, eyeball to eyeball, other women and men who are in the exact place you are, or HAVE been where you are, and can tell you how THEY managed to recover their lives.

Active addiction is an awful place, full of constant noise and chaos. Chatter and racket and madness, it's everywhere we turn.

I mean, really, who of us can think clearly in that kind of atmosphere?

Clarity is you friend, Mama. Seek it out, please. Don't give up before the miracle happens. Yeah, that's a Program cliché. But hell, it's totally true.

best,

sam
Hi Sam and thank you. This is the first time I have ever admitted and seen in writing that I had a problem. I took the opiates for pain...always did...but it became more than that...it was for pain ...energy. ..a way to cope with people and situations and to make me happy . You are 100% right Sam. I am actually in the process of finding a counselor where I will admit what taking opiates became . I HAVE to address the issues that caused me to take more for purposes other than pain. I can't believe I am at this place. I was never like this. I convinced myself it was OK because it was precribed...but then I was getting some when I ran out from a friend. That was when I realized I needed to stop. My doctor does not know. ..they just knew I wanted off the opiates. I am scared Sam, that is why I want to get off subs soon. I am scared of the withdrawal and weening...I heard it is harder and worse than plain opiates. I have read on other pages people saying the sooner you get off subs the better. I even though of switching back to opiates and then stopping and weaning off opiates after 2 weeks. But you say to stay on them until I deal with my issues ....that makes sense. I never worry about pills qnymore...in fact I have too many I don't take. Thank you for your advice. This is a hard pill to swallow. ...pun intended.
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Unread 02-06-2016, 08:58 AM   #6
Mama2
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Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi Mama2, welcome. Sorry to hear you're having all of those problems. A couple of easier things first. The length of time doesn't have a bearing in how difficult it is to taper off. It's all in how you taper. And if you do the work necessary while taking the medication - such as fix anything that was damaged during active addiction - finances, relationships, etc. Get help for underlying conditions, such as depression and anxiety. This is a good thread to read:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=23809

If you are nodding off and feel extremely sedated, chances are that your dose is too high. You're correct in it builds up because buprenorphine has an average half life of around 37 hours. You could try cutting your dose down more, but because of that long half-life, it might take a few days to notice a difference. And if you still don't, you could try to reduce even more.

The analgesic properties of bupe generally last 4 to 6 hours. But it doesn't help everyone for pain. That's kind of hit or miss. But for the people who get pain relief, they take small doses 1 to 2 mg, every 4 to 6 hours.

There are people who are prescribed benzos with buprenorphine. It becomes an issue when people take large amounts of benzos, and often along with other respiratory depressants such as alcohol. That's where the fear comes in. But people who take benzos responsibly generally don't have issues.

There shouldn't be a problem with SSRIs or wellbutrin and bupe. Those are very commonly prescribed together. If you are fearful, talk with your pharmacist.

Have you ever been treated for the panic attacks before? It could be something that developed while taking the opiates and are just continuing. Are you seeing a therapist? That might be helpful to see one who can help with anxiety.

I hope some of this was helpful.

Nancy
Hi Nancy, that was awesome advice too! I have not seen a therapist or anyone about my issues yet or treated for anxiety. Anxiety started last April whIle still on opiates. My pain doctor gave me klonopin for now. I haven't taken any because I was scsred. They are 1mg each. If I take less of the subs and half the benzo maybe I will start like that. I need to fix all those issues first before weening. I realize that now after reading these posts. I ruined our finances...a whole host of problems. The finance situation is way better now and we are on a budget. This week...I will find a counselor. I need to see a psychiatrist but not sure if I want to be precribed antidepressants and a meds for panic attacks. The rheumatologist wants to put me on ssri for my fibromyalgia pain. I tried some and they make me like a zombie...I hate it. I also have a job that I need to be alert and cognitivly there for. I can't afford to let a med "work" for 2 weeks to a month while being a zombie. But, I will go to counsleing. The subs do help with pain...but not as much as oxy did. Thank you again.
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Unread 02-08-2016, 05:45 AM   #7
NancyB
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Hi Mama2, I'm so glad it was helpful! Which SSRIs made you really drowsy if you don't mind my asking - please never feel obligated to answer anything you don't feel comfortable answering - no offense will be taken. Reason I ask is that there have been people here over the years who got some relief with Cymbalta for fibromyalgia and anxiety. If that's not one you've tried, maybe that could be discussed with your doctor. There are also others who have / are taking Buspar for anxiety instead of a benzo and that has helped them. I wonder if it would make a difference if instead of starting out with the whole dose of the SSRI, if you gradually got there. I know with some meds, they say to start at X amount and then increase to adjust to it. Cymbalta is one of those: http://www.drugs.com/dosage/cymbalta.html
"Administer CYMBALTA at a total dose of 40 mg/day (given as 20 mg twice daily) to 60 mg/day (given either once daily or as 30 mg twice daily). For some patients, it may be desirable to start at 30 mg once daily for 1 week, to allow patients to adjust to the medication before increasing to 60 mg once daily."

Just a thought from things I've seen work for others over the years here.

Do you know of a psychiatrist or can you get referrals? Just remember, you are hiring him/her to work with you, so if you're not comfortable, find another one.

Let us know how you're doing when you have time!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 04-14-2016, 10:48 AM   #8
bjh86
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Posts: 14
Default sleepy w/ anxiety

I've had a lot of anxiety but it's hard to say whether it's the med causing the problem or if that's just me Now. I take celexa and it helps with my anxiety without making me a sleepy mess..when I have to sit at my desk and do things on the computer after taking my sub I get very sleepy and my eyes cross. I wish it gave u energy. Or.there was something u could take without getting jittery
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Unread 06-28-2016, 09:16 AM   #9
bayoubrad
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Posts: 3
Default Bayoubrad

I'm dealing with the same issue. Not sure if it's a side effect of the med, or if it's a side effect from my stressful job. I have to be careful not to swallow any juices from the film or I get a bad stomach ache.
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Unread 06-28-2016, 09:30 AM   #10
NancyB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoubrad View Post
I'm dealing with the same issue. Not sure if it's a side effect of the med, or if it's a side effect from my stressful job. I have to be careful not to swallow any juices from the film or I get a bad stomach ache.
Hi bayoubrad, what dose are you currently taking and for how long have you been at that dose? Sometimes lethargy and even anxiety can be a signal to try a dose reduction.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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