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Unread 04-20-2009, 08:53 AM   #1
toboat777
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Good Morning It has been getting a little bit harder fo me each day. I have not been feeling good since about last wed, i am getting mad at myself i have many projects i can do while i am waiting to go back to work but i cant seem to get the energy to do them. I know when i was taking norco i sure could do them. I have felt great the last 3 weeks more less its been about 27 days on sub. Yesterday i bumped back up to 24 mg,s to see if it would give me a boost i was trying to stay at 20 mg,s its that damn! feeling of more is better haunting me !!! I have read other post with people feeling the same so i know i am not alone. I am going to try to stay busy all day today and not take an afternoon nap. I guess i am going to need some advice ! Here is my med intake schedual 8mg,s am. 8mgs noon. 8mgs late afternoon and not allways at that exact time ??? I am
also on 300mg,s of wellbutran a day taking that in the morning.??? I apreciate your sugestions. Tony
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Unread 04-20-2009, 09:20 AM   #2
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Hi Tony, one of the most common signs that it could be time to try a dose reduction is being tired. When people start getting that lethargic feeling, a reduction in dose usually helps. Just remember because of the halflife, the reduction might not be noticed for a couple/three days. You might want to think about going back to 20 or even try 16.
You might also think about not taking it 3 times a day. That puts too much emphasis on the Suboxone and emulates the behavior of dosing throughout the day as when in active addiction. You might think about going to twice a day at first and then get it down to once a day.

I hope that helps!

: )
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Unread 04-20-2009, 10:23 AM   #3
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Hi Tony,

Yes, I do agree with Nancy about the "tiredness" being from too high a dose. Really, give it a try to lower it down and stabilize on the lower dose. If you have been at 20 then 16 doesn't sound unreasonable at this point. You will have to give it a few days before you decide that the dose is right or not because of the long half life. But, imo, increasing your dose only makes the matters worse. It is very hard to get the concept of "less is more" but it is very true with suboxone. Also, the fact that you don't have your work projects going right now gives you more time to dwell on the idea that you are not feeling well. Idle time can often lead to thoughts we shouldn't be having! Again, I agree with Nancy and will say stop taking the medication 3 times a day. Perhaps one in the early am when you first get up and the second one by noon, ideally you should try taking all 16 at one time and then just be done with your medicine for the day. Also remember that any dose adjustment down will not be felt for a few days.

You have been doing great with your attitude-and I sure am not happy to hear that you are having a little rough time right now. But, as Ohio Mike always says, there are solutions out there we just have to work through things and find them. Don't be concerned about ALL the things you want to get done, just make a list and decide to do one or two things today. Keeping our mind active on other things helps us get over ourselves a little bit. I know you are going to get through this because you are a strong man and very determined to get it right! I am so glad you posted about this rather than just brooding about it. It is always better to get our thoughts and feelings out in the open so we can get input from others. Thank you for that! Now, go do some dishes and make that list! Best wishes-you are going to be just fine.

Nan
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Unread 04-20-2009, 10:51 AM   #4
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Hi Tony

I have to agree about a dose reduction. It seems to not make sense but it may really help. Anyway, bupe has that "ceiling" effect and more may just be a waste.

I have begun to take my sub twice a day. I'd like to do it once but am concerned about my pain issues. The doctor orders are for three times a day. I am just sick of the whole "melting" issue and wish I could just pop em' in my mouth in the morning and forget about them all day.

Maybe if you force yourself to get started on the projects the energy may come. My best wishs and prayers are behind you and I thank you for all the kindness you have offered me.

Glen
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Unread 04-20-2009, 11:42 AM   #5
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Hello All Thank,s for your replys Nancy I know you have metioned this before but do i take a deep breath and say ok i know what to do because Nancy has talked about this before (NO I Don,t ) I just bull head up and do it my way. . I am sorry to have left chat early because of my feeling crappy i got off at about the time you were wrapping up with Mom.B and i felt so bad for her i felt she needed the floor i am a minor
issue in comperison . Thank You again Nancy B. your the best.

Nan i have took in all you have said as well and i will refer back to these posts when i am feeling crappy you know i cant express my isues at chat because for one i am so damn slow at typing second i tend to freeze up there and i am so wraped up in every ones isues i tend to forget how i am feeling i got to work on that i am about as fast of a typer as i am doing dishes lol. But yes Nan i will get back on track here i have no thoughts of relaps just need a tune up and Glen as always i thank you for your support as well . i better submit this as i often run out of time & loose all my post again Thanks to all . Tony
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Unread 04-20-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
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Hi Tony

I hope the day goes better and you adjust the dose as you need to. Less is really more-I believe this and am tapering myself.

Glen
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Unread 04-20-2009, 03:28 PM   #7
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Hang in there Tony. Everyone has good days and bad. Ive had a couple of crappy days myself lately but I pull through them. Sounds like you have a very caring wife to talk to as well as all of us here. I have to agree about the once a day dosing. It gets you to forget about taking pills throughout the day. Just take it and forget it. And as far as the amount, only you know whats good for you. Less is better IMO. I started out at 32mg a day and am at 12 now 7 months later. I could have started at 24mg and I had a pretty bad oxycontin habit. Well, thats all I have for now. Good luck. D
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Unread 04-20-2009, 04:55 PM   #8
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Hay Tony,

Congratulations on feeling like poop. This is a wonderful sign that your recovery is working.

As Nancy has said itÂ’s time to reduce your dose not go up. Your body is telling you that itÂ’s need less to feel good. ThatÂ’s how suboxone works.

Please discuss this with your doctor. You are being treated for an illness and your doctor must be made aware of how you are feeling. Your dose will continue to change as time goes on. ( I am a stickler for doctors care)

DonÂ’t be mad at yourself be proud. In 27 short days your body is healing Tony. You are sleeping well you are eating well, your anxiety has gone away because you are not chasing pills. This is a milestone for you to celebrate.

DonÂ’t be frightened of lowering. Remember I started at 24mgs, I went to 16mgs with no problem. If you choose to go to 16mgs give it 3 or 4 days. You can always re- adjust your dose.

I am so happy for you Tony. I understand what a great thing this is. (See ya in chat)
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Unread 04-20-2009, 08:01 PM   #9
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Hello Deanna & Cally Thank you for your kind support.

I believe i had kinda got out in left field i was so busy having fun here posting support and chats ect, I had found that I had gotten myself into a pinch if that makes sense so i am taking everyones (IMO) and run with it. Also shame on me i have yet to start counciling / Tharapy as well i need to get on it !!!. So again thank you and we will talk soon. Tony
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Unread 04-25-2009, 08:14 AM   #10
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Tony, I think you hit the nail on the head. I did the same thing when I first started here, trying to help others with their problems and forgetting about working on myself. While I think there is a learning experience from helping others, we have to focus on "#1" also. Ive been bad about seeing my counselor lately myself. Havent been there for a couple months. You definately need to get yourself one, Tony. I experienced the "honeymoon phase" with suboxone, meaning at first everything was sooooo great, and I thought it was gonna be an easy ride. Now that Ive gotten 7 months behind me, I see that this is going to be a life long issue that I have to keep in check. Some days, I think about getting high, and thank God I have the suboxone to help me. This tells me I am no where near ready. Ill get better though, recovery takes time. I was in active addiction for 8 years, it doesnt go away in 7 months. Take care, Deanna
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Unread 04-25-2009, 08:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanna View Post
Tony, I think you hit the nail on the head. I did the same thing when I first started here, trying to help others with their problems and forgetting about working on myself. While I think there is a learning experience from helping others, we have to focus on "#1" also. Ive been bad about seeing my counselor lately myself. Havent been there for a couple months. You definately need to get yourself one, Tony. I experienced the "honeymoon phase" with suboxone, meaning at first everything was sooooo great, and I thought it was gonna be an easy ride. Now that Ive gotten 7 months behind me, I see that this is going to be a life long issue that I have to keep in check. Some days, I think about getting high, and thank God I have the suboxone to help me. This tells me I am no where near ready. Ill get better though, recovery takes time. I was in active addiction for 8 years, it doesnt go away in 7 months. Take care, Deanna
Replying to this post Deanna im chasing you today here we are missing each other by minutes, Lol you know i was on vics for 8 years as well i do not understand the information failure it was very hard to get on a recovery plan and we have good insurance i believe that in patient clinics are concerned about sub!! I think they dont want to loose the business with sub being an out patient program. I do not blame them though no one wants to suffer with no business.

Its funny about a week after i got started on sub a impatient clinic opened it is the only one in our area with in 70 miles and they said they were booked. Tony
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Unread 04-25-2009, 09:06 AM   #12
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Hey! I live in Ohio and here we have in patient clinics that offer suboxone. I chose the oupatient route. I dont think I could stay somewhere for a period of time, due to work, family etc. I just need to get my butt back to the counselors more regularly!! Its a long road Tony. Thank God we have Addiction Survivors to help us walk it!!! Have a great day! D
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Unread 05-01-2009, 10:57 PM   #13
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Hey Tony, i know you posted about the jerking since this post, but i wondered how you were doing... I am hoping this finds you feeling better! Hang in there I find your posts very helpful & inspiring, i know you can do this & i am sure if you follow the advice of those with lots of time you will do well. I cant say too much cuz im not sure-i feel like crap every few days, cant decide if its the medicine or coming off of it. But based on what everyone is saying to you i am thinking maybe im the same way, maybe im on way too much, maybe thats why i feel crappy every few days-but i keep dropping, as best i can. Time will tell, anyway, hope this post finds you fabulous!
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Unread 05-01-2009, 11:50 PM   #14
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Hi Sideny 69 Sorry I missed you
Yes I posted about this there are a coulple of things it could be i am going
with the sub side effect as it has slowed recently.
Have you experienced this if so you will find that it is common im not
saying you should not look into it for me i think back to when i was dumping tablets down my throat and it seemed i did not care then and all of a sudden im concerned go figure.

So Sideny what do you meen you are not feeling well time to time
are you lowering your doses ?
I learned that i should not try to go to fast slow down and enjoy the ride
so to speak. I started at 24mgs I never went higher now i am on a 20mg
diet lol .
When I went down to 16 after around 2+ weeks i was not feeling well it
had been about 3 days when i started to feel bad so most here felt i
should go back to 20mgs and so i am going to stay a little longer now i
learned of a person here that has been on 24mgs for gosh i believe 7
months its not my plan but everyone is different.

But more importantly you feel ok for a day or two then you start to
feel bad dont be shy let people know that this is going on you shouldent
feel like this recovery is hard as it is along with everyday stress we deal
with am i right ?
It just makes me sad if folks arent doing well i tend to do this but i enjoy
helping if i can some feel i should not feel like this but i would feel worse
if i sat here and said nothing.

I am going on & on so i will stop but Sydeny dont let your self go to
this level start by asking Nancy B. or OhioMike they are full of info,
for you as well as all the wonderfull support you may recieve here.

OK Keep us up on how you are doing and figure this one out.

Tony
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Unread 05-02-2009, 12:05 AM   #15
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Hey There Again Sidney
I do not meen to be nosey but i jumped over to see your start date
i see that you and i started at the exact same time not by the hour
but the day. (lol)
Thats cool i just caught a little of you and Nan,s post i am going back and read it if you are talking to Nan well i am not going to worry about it for now. Nan is a Wonderfull Person Diane my wife & I Love Nan.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 12:22 AM   #16
sidney69
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Tony, you are not being nosey. Yes Nan & Nancy are fabulous, (I dont realy know OhioMike,) but all his posts ive read are great. I am at a point i cant really tell if i depressed because i suffer from depression, if im on too much suboxone & thats why i feel bad or if im tapering too fast. Ive been talking with everyone & trying to slow down tapering to see. I have a day or two i feel great & am like yeah life is going good again & then caaaabammmm it goes to hell again. Maybe just my dopamine receptors are fully working yet. I just worry the sub is increasing my depression since i have read on these sites that if you are taking too much sub you will feel bad, but also if you taper too fast you will feel bad. So i am trying to just slow down & keep busy. Im also trying to do some stuff just for me (got a fabulous pedi yesterday ) Anyway, im glad you got your meds refilled & hope you & Dianne have a great weekend!
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Unread 05-02-2009, 12:43 AM   #17
toboat777
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Hey Sidney

Well i am having a ball tonight just our three cat and i Diane is on a
girls out weekend she so much deserves after putting up with me this
last week and yes the scare i had with my running out of sub it was the
last thing i would have thought would happen Lol Not !!!!! but it is like what i had experienced finding a happy medium get level and stay a while.
Sidney is it your plan to taper and jump soon alot of people prefer to go
this route as they are just tired of the pill no matter what kind. ????
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Unread 05-02-2009, 12:54 AM   #18
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Im sorry Sidney I reread my post that first part was confusing i
meant to tell you that i am at alevel were it is working for me i will
also share that i take wellbutren for depresion i was taking 300 mg per
day by my reguler doc, but i dropped down to 200 mgs over a week ago
because i was experiancing great anxiety since this 100mg drop my anxiety has stoped ?
I only take the sub & the wellbut that is all no other meds.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 12:58 AM   #19
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No i have jumped one time a long time ago off bup when i was taking off the streets. it was horrible, i was so tired i couldnt wipe my nose, bone tired. I am going to continue to taper. I am going to sorta "play with" doing 3 day tapers, or when im feeling really bad stretch it out 4,5,6 or even 7 days on that dose. i plan to drop a dose at a time, 6X3days, 5X3days, 4X3days, 3X3days, 2X3 days, 1X3days, .75X3 days, .50X3days, .25 X 3days & then .25 every other day for a few days, then if i have to, .25 every 2 days & so on. I want to be really careful. Just still struggling with the mood swings. I have depression & have been treated for years with wellbutrin. It really feels like all the dopamine in my brain is just gone completely & it tosses a little out now & then but is kaput... again, i am open to folks ideas & if i start feeling uncomfortable/unbearable physical w/d at any point then ill stay an extra day on that dose. I feel pretty good about my taper plan, just worried about my mood. I have really bad dark thoughts several times a day & i struggle to do my job (horribly stressful-but thank God i have it) & struggle to be a good parent & wife & friend. I know folks get sick of hearing "i dont feel good" or "im just sad". Im sick of feeling it-they gotta be sick of hearing it, or seeing it. I am so afraid they are just all going to get sick of it one day & bolt. hell i wasnt this depressed using. dont misunderstand that, i have no desire to use (& am so greatful for that!) just really depressed & lonely. & have a back issue so some chronic pain (but it is getting better treating with the sub X3 per day (smaller doses). Anyway, i hope your wife has a great time & you too, enjoy your "guy time" to watch sports & fish & all that "manly stuff' LOL thanks for your support. Its cool we are real close to the same date in sobriety-i took my last hydrocodones on March 23rd! Halleluih
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Unread 05-02-2009, 01:14 AM   #20
toboat777
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Ya Cool About our quit dates and i understand for the most part how
you must be wondering how you may get back to a happy time im
sure it is hard to figure out the blessing to sub as you know that if you feel bad you can allways take a mg or two to feel better.
My wife has told me she loves me more now most of the time but there are moments even now that i get testy and just teasing says she wished i was back on vices.
It is hard to be happy no matter what these days with the economy and
all other things we deal with Sidney i know you are not the only one not happy out there.
I may sound all peachy but i have issues as well dont get me wrong.

Sidney am i keeping you up ? if you need to go i understand i am in
cal still a bit early here.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 11:03 AM   #21
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Hi Tony

Sorry to hear about your current trounles. I'm busy driving upstate for one reason or another, Today it's for the Derby and to hang out with friends.

I am not fitting in down here in the city and wonder if a move back will help me. My fiancee is great to me but the stress of city life is too much.

I may give it a year to be sure.

Hope you get your dose right. I'm still working on it.

Glen
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Unread 05-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #22
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Good Morning Glen

It is good to hear from you i was on for a great while last night as my
wife is with her freind on the pacific coast enjoying some girly time.
You know its funny i was thinking about you lastnight and told my self
i have not heard from Glen and so i went to your posts and had seen you
were on earlyer that day and was happy to hear you are doing ok.

Yes Glen regaurding your thoughts of moving out of the city they say
geograghicol changes can help a person how i would hope this be the
case for you Glen but i am troubled by the thought of your girl friend
not making the change if you decide to move foward with this i will hope
that this will all work out for you.

Yes over the last 6 weeks i have had two majors with my recovery
i look at that as not being to bad but with the right state of mind i
will continue to not let this happen if i can help it.
Oh i want to share somthing i was down town yesterday and thier
is a Union Pacific steam engine on tour here with all the cars it is
a huge engine with six driving wheels and 8 travelers wow what a
site it is leaving for portola ca. today and for 1000.00 you can ride
up the cayon 80 miles to much $ for me but i did buy a hat Lol.

Thanks Glen for coming by and giving support i have some work
to do with this recovery stuff taking it a day at a time.

Tony
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Unread 05-02-2009, 11:55 PM   #23
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$1000 dollar ride anywhere in this economy is crrazy in my opinion, ive been reading my fav trash mags & seeing Madonna has 13 bathrooms & someone else has 3 waterfalls & still another has 25 car garage & i think, what th f***!>!?!?! lol, I hope you are still doing ok Tony, with your wife on girly time-as a gurl i promise you she will SO appreciate you giving her that time w/o hassle. I wish i was on gurly time right now my hubby & kids are drivn me nuts, but ill be out on business week after n ext, so that is a blessing. It is all what it is supposed to be i suppose-im honestly probably bitchier than i was when i was high- but hell im more real & im not blowing our family savings on dope & im not doing stupid crap while high, so all in all, i guess it is OK that i am somewhat down, or irritable, if that is what it has to be for a bit. Just went to a 2dolla movie with fam & going to bed. Was fun, enjoyed it, tired of the fam time, but overall it was a pleasant evening & my goal is to remember & focus on what a blessing this is as some folks dont have the luxury, i should be greatful. that helps i suppose, to reframe it like that, im so damn lucky io didnt lose my fam over my addiction & im really greatful that God didnt find it necessary to punish me like that- i think he gives us what we can handle, or tests us or punishes us in different ways- for me, it is all mentally, others have physical issues, others fam issues & so on. We all pay a price for our addiction. I got off on a rant, im sorry- enjoy your time alone & realize that your wife is enjoying her "gurly time" (us gurls really really need to take care of ourselves to be better wives/moms)- she will be greatful & happy when she returns. I hope you are doing well-i will talk to you tomorrow-Gn hope all is well this night
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Unread 05-03-2009, 01:38 AM   #24
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Thank You Sidney
Oh yes it is important for us to have some special time and injoy ourselfs
we donot come from any wealth my father was a shoe cobbler so that will pretty much say it.

Ya what is that 1000 dollars to ride a train owned by one of the largest rail systems in the world hell they aught to pay us money to ride it lol
and were i live that may be all they earn in a month ! its way out of line.

For Diane this was a lucky break her friend had booked this place a year ago paid for it then so she did not want to loose the room so i gave them
the money to go.
Now this is a story her friend works for the city with my wife and her husband is a building contractor as i am as well so we are both in the same situalation we are just staying busy enough to keep afloat but for them it is a bit different they can spend $ new caddilacs trucks tractors
last year 3 trips out of the country and atleast 4 in country now right now
they were fighting over the mortgage pmt, befor her and diane left.
I got a call from Diane my wife and she asked if i would call him with the
phone number to give him were they are staying just in case.

I called him and his reply was well" i will take it but im not calling her!!!
I felt like saying well i dont really give a rat's a%% if you do or not i was
just helping my wife out as it sounds as if she got caught in the middle.
Any way i know they are having a nice time she text me earlyer to say
so and i am happy they are.

Boy I was getting pretty gossipy there wasnt i lol.
But in Re: to you to Sidney i hope you will soon get your free time to
enjoy you so deserve it so keep this in mind and try to plan somthing
nice for yourself.
We need to treat ourselfs or reward ourselfs for our achievments this
is good for us not to feel guilty of our shortcommings.

I am contiplating going to church tomorrow or not as i can do alot
around the house here to. It wont hurt to miss a day.
Ok i am going to bed so i will talk to you all tomorrow be it early
or at chat you are going to enjoy chat Sidney it is a addiction that is
good for us. Lol Good Night
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Unread 05-03-2009, 12:12 PM   #25
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Hey Tony

Thanks for the support you give. I happen to be a train buff and even had an HO set a few years back. I like steam but perfer old electric and diesel trains of the 30's to 50's. I take a train upstate called 'Metro-north" It is an 80 mile trip that costs me only $ 11.50 round trip as I get disabled half fare. I got in to the city at 12.50 AM but the darn subway was so slow, it took me until 2am to get home. The NYC subway does major repairs on weekends so I had to switch trains to get home. That and the late hour made a 20 minute ride over an hour.

I do not think I'll make a move until I live here a year. I feel that is a fair time to make a good decision. I am also depressed and that predates me moving here so the move is not the cause. Fact remains that I feel better as I go upstate.
We were together over two years with me "commuting" to the city and I feel that could work again. Another thing is the bed. I am a big man and it is a full bed. Two grown folks just do not fit. Her bed is an expensive contraption that she loves but is much too thin for me. If we get a better, bigger bed, maybe I'll be feeling better. As it stands. she now sleeps in the living room. That is very kind of her as she knows that pain my back has been in. With her next to me, I must sleep on one side and that 'kills" my sciatica.

Anyway, time will tell. At least I have an option.

Be well Tony

Glen
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Unread 05-03-2009, 06:28 PM   #26
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Hello Glen
How are you my friend sounds like a trying day for you with the trip on the
rails and all. Its sounds that you are putting a lot of thought into the moving away out of the city.
Again by all that has happened and what you have told me i sure dont blame you it would be nice to go were it is a bit quiter i have never lived in a big city when i have gone to say sanfracisco i think wow this is a big
change in lifestyle here.

I have just been parked here on the pc most of the weekend but did get
some paper work done as well it is nice to get organized to start your work week out good. I am going to the sub Dr. in the morning for my 30
day fill then head to work right after the at 4:00 I have my first counciling
and i am looking foward to it start talking about this addiction and understand it more.

Well if your up for it thers chat in a bit maybe you will want to come on
if not i will chat with you here ok Glen have a nice sunday afternoon.

Tony.
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Unread 05-12-2009, 11:51 AM   #27
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Hello All,

I've been around for awhile now but do not get 'PC' time' like I used to due to having kids around now 24/7. I started reading this thread based on the subject but I don't have the time to read every post - so, I'm going to throw a few points out here and hope its helpful to someone (and still relevant to this thread).

I've been on Suboxone now for almost 3 years. I started at 8mg x 3 a day. Waaaay too much ! I slowly tapered down to 1/2mg a day at one point. That got a little dicey as I was open to start up with the old DOC. So I got myself to the regimen I've been on for I think about a year now (don't quote me on the date part here). I split a 2mg pill and take a half (1mg) x 4 times a day. I STILL have lethargy issues BUT only when I have built up a little too much in my system. I can tell I have by this lethargy. The good news is the only thing I have to do to reverse the lethargy is to delay my next mornings dose for awhile. I notice then that the energy comes back. the thing is I'm never sure if its 'artificial' eg., the Sub causing the felling or what but, it does work for me. Another point I'd like to make is that my sleep patterns have changed over the years. I was one that HAD to get between 8 and 9 hours sleep a night to feel 'right' the next morning. Any more or any less always had a big effect on how my day went. I can get extremely crabby on 5 or 6 hours and not be able to handle much more than the most basic tasks - and, don't interrupt my train of thought when I'm feeling this
way ! This always caused me relationship problems - at home and at work.. Since on Sub I stay up often until 2:30am. Last night I was up until 4am and only got 5 hours sleep.Whats happening, IMHO, is that if I build up a bit to much Sub in y system I get insomnia. If I take a little less I wake up after 4 or 5 hours cause my body is letting me know it. Yes, I lose track sometimes and wind up taking an extra dose (1mg) maybe 2 extra. I know this is 'not the way' but hey, my memory ain't what it used to be.
Whats my point ? Well, I think no matter what your current dose is, the same can happen with the 'lethargy'. It depends on what your system has become used to. I'm guessing that the higher dose you are on, the more pronounced it will be but, in general, the same problem. I've finally realized my lack of ambition, the muscle pains here and there etc., are probably related to my body not getting the rest it needs. I always hated wasting 8 - 9 hours sleeping and envied those that could get by on 6 or so. Now I can get by on 6 or less but find that I just stay at home and do 'whatever'. I put off going out to visit or shop until I absolutely have no choice. I'm content but also, more than likely, TIRED - physically. My mind though can go into overdrive at times and I'm up doing things at 2am ! Some serious discipline is what I need, I know this. Since retiring I don't have those 'ques' that I once had - like when to shower and get dressed, having no other option but to leave for work etc. Still, I'm 1,000 times better off than when I was using - there is no doubt about this. Nothing is perfect. There are some side effects to this med. After 3 years now, whenever I get to thinking 'was I better off without this junk in my system ?' all I have to do is sit back and really recall what life was like before Sub. I wouldn't trade it away for anything, This med. has been my savior. It has also worked a miracle in the 'depression', SAD, anxiety attack life I was leading - self medicating the whole way. OK, enough of my 'thoughts'. I hope something here has been of some use to someone here.
One last point (or question). Anyone know if theres any progress in having this med. classified as useful in treating depression etc., ? I remember a year or two ago there was a gentleman pursuing this. I can't remember what site though I had read this on.
I'd LOVE to see the 'stigma' of 'addict/addiction' removed. I have never once had a relapse since day one. I have zero interest in abusing prescribed or illegal drugs. I know, I'm on one now blah, blah, blah. However this med doesn't fit the definition IIRC of standard opiates. One does not build a 'tolerance'. I'm amazed that no matter the dose I've yet to ever 'need' more because I've become 'tolerant' to the current dose.
The opposite has been true. After minor adjustments I've been able to go from 8mg x 3 per day to this current dose - and I've been taking it daily for close to 3 years ! I've seriously never been more happier/content in my life (since childhood at least).
Well - there it is. Wish I could participate more but I'd never trade away not having my kids around to be able to do so. Hope this is understandable, Take care all. Dang it - almost forgot. Anyone know if this med will finally go 'generic' ?? Something about after 10 years other companies can also start manufacturing this drug ? I'd LOVE to know there was at least one other company making this med. - this economy and all. I can't imagine having to go back to life the way it was w/o Sub. Now I'm done ...
still awake ? LOL !! Take care and be well....
ps - I have no idea why the 'breaks' above, occur. When I 'preview' I see them but there is no way to adjust what I originally typed so as to correct them.
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Unread 05-15-2009, 04:58 PM   #28
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I am really worried about my "blue" down feelings right now. I am hoping this is temp, very very temp. I want my life back. The first few days/week or sub were great, the last two have been hard. Is depression something people go through a lot taking this medication subutex?
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Unread 05-15-2009, 07:46 PM   #29
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Hi Tony,cljames and Ironman

I'm still at 10mg and may get to 8mg soon. It is just a pain having to take it for pain at least three times a day. I wish it came in 1mg tablets. the sub is not made even it 2mg tabs.

Depression is normal in recovery from drugs, The opioids mask the symptoms and in my case made me too worried about staying "well" and out of pain to worry about depression. Hell,I was depressed because of my dependance!

Sadly I still battle depression. A drug called provigil helped a lot but I think I need to up the dose to 200mg from 100mg. I hate asking the doctor as he is an addictionologist and any time I ask for "more" a light goes off. I hate that but what the heck can I do?!

Actually he started me on 200mg and I stopped taking it the first time because I had a bad effect from AD withdrawal that I blamed on the provigil (wrongly)

Anyway, maybe a change to welbutrin as an adjunct may help. It made me jittery the first and second time I took it but I was on massive amountsof opioids that can skew things.

Have a good weekend and I'll try as well.This too shall pass!
Glen
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Unread 05-15-2009, 10:22 PM   #30
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Hello Glen

Re: Your upping your dose i dont believe the doctor would object as the
anty's loose there effect over time of use. I was bumped up to 300 as he
felt i was not recieving enough.
But like you say Glen they were giving me the jitters with sub as well as hydro's would so i reduced back to 200 as my sub doctor felt i should.
So again it could be you need to go up (IMO) i am the same way about
asking my doctor anything like this as i have a fear of him denying me.

Have a nice weekend Glen talk with you soon Tony
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Unread 05-16-2009, 12:21 PM   #31
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Hi Tony

I'm leaving to catch a train upstate but wanted to say hello. My doctor may up the dose unless he agrees to the welbutrin trial, I may try a week or two if not too jittery from it,

Enjoy the day

Glen
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Unread 05-18-2009, 11:30 PM   #32
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Tony, How goes it? Havent talked to you later, hoping you are doing well, had trouble figuring which place you were posting-found this thread
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Unread 05-19-2009, 12:31 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney69 View Post
Tony, How goes it? Havent talked to you later, hoping you are doing well, had trouble figuring which place you were posting-found this thread
Hello Sidney i just came in for the evening to see everyone here how are you long no time no chat are you doing ok with everything ? all is good here it has been hot working average is 100to104 degrees i am having a little trouble staying hydrated
the sub sucks it out of you Lol.
Are you going to be here posting for a few days I know you stay very busy let me know and i will follow up with how you are doing hope to hear back when you get time. Tony.
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Unread 05-19-2009, 02:34 AM   #34
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Hello All - I've been away for the past week - no PC privacy. Hope all are doing well ?
What is this Provigil you speak of ? I know, I can Google it but more to the point: If its not a commonly abused med, why would you feel nervous about asking to up the dose ? That reads back snarky yo me but I don't mean it this way LOL !! I'm just curious - I thought I knew all the commonly abused meds and this one sounds alien to me - unless its the 'generic' name/thing. Man, it gets old having to worry about asking for a med. for fear of being treated like a liar. I HATE that !! I've been in serious pain, dripping blood all over the ER floor and nervous about asking for the obvious ! I wouldn't even mind if the doctor came straight out and said "I think you are trying to...blah, blah, blah" . Its the judgemental looking down the nose BS that gets me. Why do those in the medical community think its ok to pass judgement in this one area ?? I'm sure there are a lot of patients seen with far more 'evil' personal 'attributes' then a psych./phys. addiction to a med. but they wouldn't think of commenting on these or look down their noses at them. I bet Bernie Madoff was given the royal treatment at his appointments !!
'It hurts right here doc, reall bad ....'
'Well, we can't have that now can we Mr Madoff ? I'm going to write you this script .here..."

I can personally say that I've never asked for a pain med. that wasn't appropriate for the symptoms I described to the doctor. Honest.

(Hope y'all have a sense of humor !)
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Unread 05-19-2009, 03:03 AM   #35
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Thumbs down Provigil

To Whom it May Concern:


Provigil is a medication prescribed for patients with sleep disorders. It helps them with energy. It can be addictive, like a form of speed. If anyone who has a past of alcohol and drug should tell their doctor of their past.
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Unread 05-19-2009, 03:20 PM   #36
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Hello all

The doctor who perscribed it to me is a psych with added degree of "addictionologist" he knows all about my history and still perscribed the provigil. I feel no need to misuse it but at 6 foot and ha;f inch at 276 pounds, I think the dose can go up since I'm at the lowest. He actually started me at 200mg but I went down because I thought it had caused my awul feeling that turned out to be serotonin syndrome or the like from AD changes. So, he restarts me at the lower dose.

I admit I have more energy and feel better but heck I'm so down anything near "normal" feels good.

Im scared I'm doomed to feel down the rest of my life as its been over two years of depression. I have a few good hours a day and enjoy my saturdays upstate but all in all I'm as low as whale dung lol

My sleep by the way id why he perscribed the provigil. I had insomnia and then stayed in bed until 1-2 PM each day. the provigil helped greatly with that although the insomnia is still there a little.

Sad thing is the things I liked to do no longer seem worth the effort and sex was right out! My goodness I would never have thought that. I was always as horney as a two peckered owl lol

Anyway I enjoy coming here as I feel I'm not alone and I have the added issue of the suboxone and pain issues.

Be well my friends

Glen
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Unread 05-19-2009, 11:02 PM   #37
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Tony, i will be back & forth-posting under tapers. Give me a shout~!!! Glen Im really sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly & i hope that you continue to talk to your doctor. Sometimes it takes a while for the meds to kick in. I was taking AD's & they had to switch them around & i think the last week or two they got straight-now i feel better, much better, so hang in there & keep trying- it will happen-wish you the best
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Unread 05-20-2009, 12:13 AM   #38
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Hi Sidney
Sorry i missed you i will look for your thread and catch up with you soon
and i want to mention that you sound great and your taper is going well ?
Talk with you soon Tony.
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Unread 05-20-2009, 01:37 PM   #39
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I hope you're feeling better soon. Have you always taken Wellbutrin in the AM? I take my antidep. (Effoxor) at night.
Are you tired -- or feeling down? Do you drink caffeine at all? Maybe a pick-me-up?
I know when I took codeine (which also contained caffeine), I would nap in the daytime before going to work (even after a full nights sleep). Now I am awake all day (no naps), but do get tired at nite earlier than I used to.
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Unread 05-20-2009, 11:19 PM   #40
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Hello Fresh 2009

I beleive you are refering to Glen ?
But I also take wellbutrin I take 2 100mg per day it was to be used to help with a smoking habbit i have but i have not stopped smoking as i wish to hold that up untill i get a handle on opioid addiction but i have had success with wellbutrin and nic, patches so i feel i can do it again as soon
i will be in counciling quiting smoking is one of my goals.

But i do feel i need to take on one habbit at a time it seems that when i was younger i had the strength to take on more than one habbit and just
quit them again this will be a question for my therapist.

Thank you Fresh2009 for who ever you were refering to. Tony
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Unread 05-23-2009, 10:18 AM   #41
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Hi Tony - I thought your post was the first one about not feeling well and taking Wellbutrin in the AM? (((
Good Morning It has been getting a little bit harder fo me each day. I have not been feeling good since about last wed, i am getting mad at myself i have many projects i can do while i am waiting to go back to work but i cant seem to get the energy to do them. I know when i was taking norco i sure could do them. I have felt great the last 3 weeks more less its been about 27 days on sub. Yesterday i bumped back up to 24 mg,s to see if it would give me a boost i was trying to stay at 20 mg,s its that damn! feeling of more is better haunting me !!! I have read other post with people feeling the same so i know i am not alone. I am going to try to stay busy all day today and not take an afternoon nap. I guess i am going to need some advice ! Here is my med intake schedual 8mg,s am. 8mgs noon. 8mgs late afternoon and not allways at that exact time ??? I am
also on 300mg,s of wellbutran a day taking that in the morning.??? I apreciate your sugestions. Tony)))
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Unread 05-23-2009, 10:23 AM   #42
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My advice would be to take all of the sub at once in the morning. This way you are not thinking about it all day. You want drug taking to become less and less part of your daily routine, like it was. Sub lasts for days so you don't need to take more frequently than once per day.
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Unread 05-23-2009, 11:05 AM   #43
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Good Morning Fresh2009 & Mike

Gosh Fresh this all sounds so familar to me i am dealing with the very same
issues the only difference is i have pain and for me it helps to take my sub
through the day as well i should ask though do you deal with pain as well ? Like Mike said its best to take it in the morning to cut out the habbit of dosing like you were with your (DOC) Fresh i do not like to
give advice about peoples dose mg's i just got a email from a close friend
here on the forum in reguards to dosing correctly and how to solve our
situation. No offense to Mike here as i know he is very well up on these
situations and can do the same but i would like to contact my person and
have him help you as well as i feel he has the plan for us.
I am going to Email him now and ask if he can get this to you it will be
posted here on the forum for you i cant tell you how soon but just keep
your eyes open for it. Lol

Tony
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Unread 05-23-2009, 01:32 PM   #44
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Yep Fresh, more is less with Suboxone and that can be hard to get use to, but, this is where we have to let ourselves trust the science!

Taking your daily dose all in the morning is the ideal way and after we get use to that, I think we kind of amaze ourselves at how freeing it is.

Fresh, if you are feeling sluggish on Sub that is normally a sign that your dose is too high. You stated that you went back up to 24mg looking for it to 'pick you up' well IMO that is the wrong reason to ever increase our dose. We do not want a pick up from Sub, we simply wish to feel normal.

If your not having problems with depression or other issues, then chances are even 20mg was too much for you, if it made you feel sluggish or tired. Also keep in mind that other things can come into play as well. General health issues. With men testosterone can effect energy levels and so on.

Only you know how you feel, you know yourself best, but, if you are feeling tired or drained from the Sub, then you have to learn to trust the 'less is more' deal and lower your dose to see if that helps. Keep in mind it can take a few days to really feel the effects from any dose reduction and we don't want to reduce too much too fast. And as always discuss everything with your doctor.

Note: If I were you and this is merely my opinion, I would take 8mg in the AM and then another 8mg no later than 4pm each day and leave it at that. See how you feel in about four days or so, focusing on the dose reduction and feeling normal at first. After that, if you feel better, then work on taking it once per day. As that is the best way to dose for addiction healing.


Mike
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Unread 05-23-2009, 02:25 PM   #45
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By the way Fresh, you mentioned taking 300mg of Wellbutrin per day. Maybe someone else can jump in here, but, I don't know if that could be playing into this or not. It may not be a factor at all. Again, check with your doctor.

Mike
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Unread 05-23-2009, 02:28 PM   #46
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LOL ...... sorry and I meant to also mention the following!

On melting your Sub, if you want to get the absolute most out of each dose, then this is the trick, 30 min. prior do not eat, drink or smoke anything except for water! Right before taking your dose rinse your mouth out with Tap water, as hot as you can stand it, without being uncomfortable. After you feel the Sub has completely melted, wait another 3 min. before swallowing or spitting saliva. Now for the next 15 min do not eat, drink or smoke anything, not even water and you will get the absolute most out of each dose. It also helps if you are taking a full Sub tablet (8mg) to split it in half and place half on each side of your mouth.

Why do people like me suggest this? LOL ........... well not only does it save money, because you will need less Sub, but, it lets you know that you are doing all you can to take the least amount possible and in our minds that is a huge victory because we were always so use to wanting more and more and more!

OK, I'm done for now! lol
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Unread 05-23-2009, 02:30 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioMike View Post
By the way Fresh, you mentioned taking 300mg of Wellbutrin per day. Maybe someone else can jump in here, but, I don't know if that could be playing into this or not. It may not be a factor at all. Again, check with your doctor.

Mike
You Know Mike you may be right i was at 300 mgs and
experiancing anxiety as 2 weeks ago i only take 2oomgs and my
doctor agreed with this and he wants me off it completly and this is
my sub docter im speaking about.
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Unread 05-23-2009, 02:33 PM   #48
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Thank You OMike for helping us out with this and taking your time on this special weekend.

Tony.
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Unread 05-23-2009, 05:40 PM   #49
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I don't know much about Welbutrin as I only took it for a short time, a very long time ago, to see if I could stop smoking. My experience was that it made me very nervous and I had to stop taking it. But, that was me, I know others who do well on it, so I think she needs to speak to her doctor.

Mike
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:42 AM   #50
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Wellbutron, as Tony Soprano put it so well, makes my head feel like it's filled up with Ginger Ale! Had to stop. Went to 100mg Zoloft and felt great. Main thing to remember is different ant's have different effects of different people.

I'm on 225mg of Effexor now, but feel as though I need more or perhaps switch over to generic Zoloft.

Has Anyone had personal experience tapering of benzos? That would be Xanax, Valium, etc. My Dr. has taken me down 1mg from 4 to 3 over two months and I feel very out of sorts. I would prefer a slower taper. (4mg a day for 9 years)

I went in for Sub treatment (had been taking 300 to 500mg of Hydrocodone a day for 9.5 years) and now she's started tapering my Xanax. Any thoughts? Am I being a whiney baby, is she taking it too fast? I'd appreciate any input from anyone with first hand experience. Thanks you for the web sights Nancy. There just don't seem to be any active members. Thanks, and let me take a moment to thank out troops in Iraq. I dearly love the troops..but just as strongly despise the War and George W. Bush who started it.
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