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Unread 08-15-2010, 06:21 PM   #1
Phoenix Love
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Default Fatigue, Reduction and Cravings

I've been on suboxone for three mos now. I started at 24 mg and fluctuate between 2-3 mg now. My question is about fatigue. Everything I've understood about fatigue points to too much medication and as a result I've continually reduced. Upon each reduction I've felt no withdrawal symptoms. I keep reducing simply because I can't afford to sleep from 4 pm to 9 am daily and if I sit down I fall asleep. Otherwise I'm feeling pretty good.
The ONLY time I crave my doc is when I'm feeling on top of the world...I've discovered I am a perfectionist and expect that I SHOULD feel good all of the time. I want to use when I feel good to preserve the feeling...I know I'm an addict...sick...right? I'm addressing this in therapy. In the meantime I keep reducing my dose due to fatigue. The doc says he's never experienced anyone like me and I seriously can't imagine I'm an anomaly.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 07:58 PM   #2
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HI...I get fatigued ALL the time on my subs, regardless the dose. Your not alone, I promise. I am going to ask my doctor if there may be something he can prescribe me to help me stay awake. I hate being so tired, but do enjoy not being on my doc anymore. I have been on subs over two months, and although I have stabilized on my dose, I am always tired. I hope this helps you know your not alone and any questions, please ask. We are here to help you.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 08:16 PM   #3
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I've always craved sporadically when feeling my best, on or off sub....allowing fear thoughts to control my actions. It's something I'm dealing with in therapy. Instead of just believing my stressful thoughts as truth, I've learned to question them. I've found without exception that when I believe things that stress me out I'm buying into lies that limit my growth and potential. I DO NOT want to go back to using any substance as a means to support bad thinking and there is no healthy reason to use. I intend to emerge from this cocoon as a butterfly! I'm content to be on sub as long as it takes at whatever dose. My addict thinking tells me that there is no sense taking my doc when it will not have the desired effect. Then I do a reality check and realize that sober reality is the desired effect. The subs are doing their job. I'm just wondering about my rapid dosage reduction and why my body adjusts so quickly...it's probably a good thing. In the meantime I'll reduce as needed because I can't be a parent and be completely asleep (worse than I ever was with my doc) while my small child is at large.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 08:53 PM   #4
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I get tired too! It is a side effect and it says it on the bottle! heheh But I know what you mean by reduction.. it should help. I'm on 12mg and scared of reduction but today I only took 8mg and I don't feel I need that extra 4mg.. I even forgot. I do miss being on top of the world and I think the exact same way!!!!! "My addict thinking tells me that there is no sense taking my doc when it will not have the desired effect. Then I do a reality check and realize that sober reality is the desired effect. The subs are doing their job." And indeed, I have a 7 month old.. no time to be tired!!!!!!!!!! If the reduction is going good for you that's awesome! And I'm mucho glad you're going to therapy.. I am too

Julie, I don't know if it's a good idea to get prescribed something for staying awake. It could be similar to a speed type drug and you "could" get addicted to that. What do you think?? Not to go against it or anything but just a thought. Be careful A long time ago, this girl gave me this Nuvigil stuff that keeps her awake.. and I took a lot (obviously) and I was grinding my teeth and wide awake all night and half the day. It also says on most of that stuff if you have addictive behavior you shouldn't be prescribed it. Speed was never my thing anyways I just wanted to be awake... never touched it again.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 09:07 PM   #5
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I don't want anything that is "supposed" to keep me awake. I was given Ritalin in my early 20's do deal with adhd and college. Although I went from F's to A's it made me lethargic and void of personality. I traded focus for spontaneity and creativity. After a few months I discovered that if I sat in the back of the class and bounced up and down I could focus and get A's without drugs. Success and a personality!! I have two undergrad and a master's degree that I earned while bouncing and 100% substance free. Long story short, I don't have any desire to take drugs to counteract side-effects of drugs unless I feel like it would enhance my quality of life. So far therapy and dosage reduction are working. I was just honestly wondering if I was as odd (only as far as rapid reduction..lol) as my doctor made me out to be.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 09:10 PM   #6
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Thanks for the advice regarding my asking about something to keep me awake. I didn't really give that any thought and the last thing I need is something else to become addicted to. Makes sense. Hopefully in time the fatigue will lesson. I sure hope so!! I think I will just leave it alone for now. Thanks again. Peace.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 09:11 PM   #7
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Phoenix Love,
No I was talking to Julnjer! She mentioned something about that in her post that she wanted to ask her doctor about it. That's great that Ritalin helped you.
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Unread 08-15-2010, 09:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julnjer View Post
Thanks for the advice regarding my asking about something to keep me awake. I didn't really give that any thought and the last thing I need is something else to become addicted to. Makes sense. Hopefully in time the fatigue will lesson. I sure hope so!! I think I will just leave it alone for now. Thanks again. Peace.
Yes, they were telling me it might not be a smart idea phoenixlove....and they're right!!! JNJ
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:39 PM   #9
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I apologize for the response to something not directed at me and thank you for bringing it to my attention. This past couple of weeks I've been consciously noticing when I react or respond to something in my life based on a thought that isn't true. This was another perfect example. I love it!! I had NO idea how often I spend time reacting to or explaining things (trying to make others understand) because I misunderstood. Life is cool!
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Unread 08-16-2010, 01:22 PM   #10
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HI Phoenixlove: Yes, life is cool and don't worry about it. I have responded many times to what I thought was directed to me!! lol! And you can respond to any posts, directed to you or not. Your opinion and advice is always welcome!!!! Peace and love to you. JNJ
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Unread 08-16-2010, 01:43 PM   #11
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No problem! It was a misunderstanding but I'm glad you shared that with us about the Ritalin. That is really awesome it helped you! How amazing that you could go from F's to A's but the side effects don't seem all to great How are you feeling Phoenix? And you Julie?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 01:52 PM   #12
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Phoenix,

Ok...disclaimer time!! I AM IN NO WAY OFFERING MEDICAL ADVICE ONLY MY EXPERIENCE!.....lol! Ok now that that's out of the way.

Somewhere among some of my first couple of weeks in this forum, I, in a very lon-winded fashion I'm sure, explained the nightmare I have gone through trying to find the right medications.

I have the great fortune to b one of those .0001% of the population people as far as not only my brain chemistry deficit but my metabolization rate of medication is off the charts.

I also have an add dx and took stimulants years ago that also made me fatigued. And I too crave my DOC when I am feeling on an emotional high. So, what my md finally tried with the sub to address the lethargy was adding vyvanse which is a newer add med that has some of the same anti-abuse fundamentals as suboxone. Its long-acting and only activates once metabolized by the liver.

I am completely in agreement with the apprehension to add another med with abuse risks. However, I just wanted to share that to give you some hope in addition to what the other ladies advice that even if it is something you really don't want to risk, there are so many options out there its aalmost endless!..that was one of my best run-on sentences to date!

Are there any more details you could share to shed a little more light on your chemical makeup history??? I would love to help in any way I can.

We have lots of experience on this forum and I think you will know what feels "right" and "comfortable" to consider.

You have so much support, u can't imagine!

May God bless you with discernment and peace.

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Unread 08-16-2010, 02:17 PM   #13
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I am feeling much better MissSurvivor, thank you for asking. The prozac is doing wonders for me. Although I am tired much of the time, it beats being nuts!! LOL!!!

Seriously, it is helping me. Calming me down and my mind isn't racing all over the place. Chances are I have some type of chemical imbalance, I assume. I hope you are doing well and once again, thanks for asking!!
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Unread 08-16-2010, 02:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Love View Post
I've been on suboxone for three mos now. I started at 24 mg and fluctuate between 2-3 mg now. My question is about fatigue. Everything I've understood about fatigue points to too much medication and as a result I've continually reduced. Upon each reduction I've felt no withdrawal symptoms. I keep reducing simply because I can't afford to sleep from 4 pm to 9 am daily and if I sit down I fall asleep. Otherwise I'm feeling pretty good.
The ONLY time I crave my doc is when I'm feeling on top of the world...I've discovered I am a perfectionist and expect that I SHOULD feel good all of the time. I want to use when I feel good to preserve the feeling...I know I'm an addict...sick...right? I'm addressing this in therapy. In the meantime I keep reducing my dose due to fatigue. The doc says he's never experienced anyone like me and I seriously can't imagine I'm an anomaly.
Hi,
I get very tired around this time every day. I'm on 16mg and take both tablets in the morning and I feel fine, I do not crave my DOC, hell, I never even think about it any more. What I do forget to do is take my sub sometimes until about noon when it finally hits me that "duhhhh I forgot". In my case the fatigue is from never stopping. The idea of sub is that you do not have cravings for your DOC. Three months is a short time, and reducing your dose? Just a suggestion, but speak with your doctor about this because if your still craving, then your dose should be adjusted properly. Doing it on you own could cause you problems but this is only my opinion I am not an expert but your doctor is. Getting this disease into remission and not craving is what it's all about. I'm coming up on one year in a few weeks and I feel fine on my dose, do not have to adjust it, BUT your body must level out on the proper dose. There is no low dose, no high dose, just the RIGHT dose. Your doctor should guide you with this if he is indeed knowledgeable about the workings of sub. It only took me about a month of side effects, etc, then after that it has been smooth sailing. And that's what Suboxene does, it eliminates the cravings for your DOC so that you can function in a normal (whatever normal is) manner. If your craving that euphoria, the sub is not working properly for you. And jumping around with your dose should only be done with your doctors advice IN MY OPINION ONLY. I want to make that clear because I don't want to offend you or anyone else for that matter.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 03:17 PM   #15
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Hi Phoenix Love, when you say you fluctuate between 2 and 3mgs, is it on a regular schedule, like alternating 2mg and 3mg every other day? Sometimes fluctuating the dose can cause instability in the levels of the medication in your system so that some days it might be at too high of a dose - the long halflife adds to it - and that could be what's contributing to your being tired.

That's great that you recognize why and when you crave and you're working on that in therapy. I would guess that just knowing that helps you feel better in that you're searching for the reasons why.

Let us know how you're doing when you get a minute.

Nancy
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Unread 08-16-2010, 03:19 PM   #16
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I'm with you guys, I'm tired all the time, but when I lower my dose, I react negatively. The Nuvigil gave me a nasty headache and a nasty crash afterward...I'd rather be tired than experience 4 hours of euphoria and super productivity with that nasty crash afterwards.
JMO, Best to all.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 04:17 PM   #17
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I alternate days 2 mg then 3 mg. It goes for 7 days then I drop to 2 mg consistently. It may seem odd but it has made dosage reduction effortless as far as withdrawal symptoms. While on Sub I've only experienced them one time and realized I had forgotten to take any for 40 hours! Isn't it great that I can actually forget to take medication?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 04:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKEYES View Post
Hi,
I get very tired around this time every day. I'm on 16mg and take both tablets in the morning and I feel fine, I do not crave my DOC, hell, I never even think about it any more. What I do forget to do is take my sub sometimes until about noon when it finally hits me that "duhhhh I forgot". In my case the fatigue is from never stopping. The idea of sub is that you do not have cravings for your DOC. Three months is a short time, and reducing your dose? Just a suggestion, but speak with your doctor about this because if your still craving, then your dose should be adjusted properly. Doing it on you own could cause you problems but this is only my opinion I am not an expert but your doctor is. Getting this disease into remission and not craving is what it's all about. I'm coming up on one year in a few weeks and I feel fine on my dose, do not have to adjust it, BUT your body must level out on the proper dose. There is no low dose, no high dose, just the RIGHT dose. Your doctor should guide you with this if he is indeed knowledgeable about the workings of sub. It only took me about a month of side effects, etc, then after that it has been smooth sailing. And that's what Suboxene does, it eliminates the cravings for your DOC so that you can function in a normal (whatever normal is) manner. If your craving that euphoria, the sub is not working properly for you. And jumping around with your dose should only be done with your doctors advice IN MY OPINION ONLY. I want to make that clear because I don't want to offend you or anyone else for that matter.
Thank you for your input. I understand your concerns and you make extremely good points. I am reducing under the supervision of the doctor and with the further input of a therapist. The cool thing is that everyone in the doctor's office, including the doctor is in recovery. They all understand the life of an addict.
As I said before, I am content to be on Suboxone at whatever dose for as long as it takes. My first commitment is to my recovery. Even on the highest doses, 24 mg, there was an occasional emotional craving. The thought enters my mind and leaves without being given energy. This tells me I am smart to be in therapy. The sub has put the "pause" button on the addiction so I don't live in fear of withdrawals or obsessed with cravings. It provides the platform for me to deal with the beliefs, fears and thinking errors that got me here to begin with. I am on my second day of consistently taking 2 mg and have minimal fatigue. I am on my third day in a row of feeling emotionally fabulous. As my doctor said, "Everyone reacts differently to Suboxone and although there are similarities, everyone's path to recovery is unique to them. The goal is to use the support you have and find a healthy and stable balance." Thank you everyone who has responded for being part of my support system and part of my recovery.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 09:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Julnjer View Post
I am feeling much better MissSurvivor, thank you for asking. The prozac is doing wonders for me. Although I am tired much of the time, it beats being nuts!! LOL!!!

Seriously, it is helping me. Calming me down and my mind isn't racing all over the place. Chances are I have some type of chemical imbalance, I assume. I hope you are doing well and once again, thanks for asking!!

That's great to hear Julie! Definitely better than being NUTS! you're so awesome you make me laugh.

Phoenix,
I'm so glad you have a psych and therapist who are recovering addicts. My therapist is a recovering alcoholic and it's so cool to talk to him every week and he understands me and doesn't judge me. He actually gives me examples of his past in active addiction in our conversations. He says us recovering addicts make sense to him and he feels so comfortable with us. I really with your reduction goes well and if it doesn't you can always go back up!
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Unread 08-16-2010, 10:10 PM   #20
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LOL!! Thanks Danielle. I just posted to you on another thread telling ya the same thing!! Better to be tired than nuts!!!! I am glad I make ya laugh, it good for the soul. And YOU make me smile!!! And THAT is good for the soul too!! Thanks friend!! JNJ
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Unread 08-17-2010, 03:47 PM   #21
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Just wanted to let you guys know what a big help and inspiration you all are. I can't wait until I'm down to 2mg! It seems like it will be forever. I'm not so great at waiting...lol.
Today was my second try at taking 20mg. Of course I don't feel a difference yet, but I'm not as tired and I'm much more focused!!
Thanks for all your support!
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