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Unread 06-01-2016, 10:36 PM   #1
Soccermom
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Default Tapering Help Please I need all I can get

Hi to all,

I really want to taper slowly off of 8/2 mg strips of suboxone and I would like to do it very slowly in hopes that I can do this without it interuppting my work and my day to day responsibilities - my question is that possible if I do it over a period of dropping slowly and staying on those lower dose months at a time?
I dropped to from 8mg to 6mg 8 days ago and I had been feeling okay until today and now I have this really weird foggy feeling , I feel very on edge and also impatient. I am snapping at everyone.
Here is my question my youngest son is home from college and my plan and hope was that I would stay at the 6mg dose until he went back to school then I could go down to 4mg after he goes back in the fall and so on and so forth. Am I going to settle into to this dose without a great physical disturbance or will my body just stay out of whack for months trying to get used to the lower dose? If that's the case then I think I should start when he is back in school. He is my youngest and I don't know that he will be home that many more summers. He might be doing internships and not even home so I don't want to ruin this summer by starting this only to find I am going to be miserable even lowering the dose by a little.
Please if anyone could share advice or stories of tapering slowly and its effect and also if I should wait and start this when my son goes back to school and I will be alone.
Thank you so much in advance!!!!!!!
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Unread 06-02-2016, 07:03 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, I'm going to post the link to a thread of yours from last year about tapering that might be helpful.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=30053

As for feeling foggy and on edge and snapping at everyone, it may not have anything to do with the reduction. Most people, if they're going to notice a reduction, notice it a couple/three days later because of the halflife. Could there be another reason, like not sleeping well, getting sick, etc., or just having a bad day. On the other hand, for some people, they start feeling like that when their dose is too high and they're ready for a reduction. How are you feeling today?

In general, you have to do what it right for you. If you're already thinking that tapering now isn't a good idea, then wait. A couple of months isn't really going to make a difference. Or it could be a good time to reduce because you'll be busy and not thinking about it. The beauty about tapering is that if a reduction doesn't work, then you can go back up a little. I realize this is an old thread, but I think the advice in it still rings true. http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=16077

I hope that helps!

Nancy
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Unread 06-05-2016, 09:31 PM   #3
Soccermom
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Default What Results have People Had Alternating

Today not such a good day I keep getting these periods of being extremely flushed . I noticed that a few days after going down on my dose from 8mg to 6mg. Is that something anyone else has had experience with or just me?

I also wondered what kind of results I would get if I tried to go every other day going from 6 mg to 4 mg. So one day I went with 6 mg then the next 4 mg and so on and son on until I went strictly down to 4. Has anyone done it that way?

Thanks for your help......
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Unread 06-06-2016, 06:28 AM   #4
NancyB
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Hi again, there are some people who found alternating to work really well - especially at those 'odd' number doses. You'd essentially be at 5mg by alternating and that could be a better way to go than from 6 to 4mg.

I'm hoping someone chimes in about being flushed.

Nancy
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Unread 06-25-2016, 05:14 AM   #5
Leo
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Hi Soccermom

Flushing, sweating, dripping wet in bed at night etc is a given state in opioid withdrawal to all people of the world. You are not alone. This will subside over time and this can be a different time period and severity as we are all a bit different.

My main advice would be that, whatever dose you have dropped to, ensure you don't then go up or down (apart from the alternating thing Nancy mentions which can be done cos of the half life) in dose. Keep the dose and have faith, your body will recover. I personally found the sweats and flushes to be one of the final things to disappear in opiate taper/withdrawal. The mind can 'tell' you all sorts of silly things and can even prolong the physical phase of withdraw. I just told myself 'ok, so it's shit. But I will accept it as it's not painful but just rather annoying. If you flush in front of people you can just make something up like a touch of flu etc.

All you need with this problem is to keep in reality cos there can be far more very painful and distressing symptoms to mind and body with other opioids in withdrawal as I am sure you know. Remind yourself of this. It's just rather annoying. But it wont hurt or kill you hon.


Best wishes

Leo

Last edited by Leo; 06-25-2016 at 05:21 AM..
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Unread 07-28-2016, 10:43 PM   #6
Soccermom
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Thanks I have really been depressed lately even going from 8 -6 which I feel is really no giant leap. I also feel like heck if I feel really depressed on 6 then I might as well go to 4. I don't have any interest in things, I don't really want to talk to anyone, I just feel blah and I try to keep busy but then you just run out of things to do and it is so hard when you aren't interested in the things you used to be interested in and you don't want to talk to anyone. Plus now my kids are all off to college so that's hard too. I am definitely in a funk but why not be in the funk on 4 right? Thanks for answering me sometimes I feel like I am the only one out here going through this at the present time. Nancy is always the person I can count on .....I see a lot of older posts . WHICH I SO APPRECIATE THE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE but it's very hard....THANK YOU SO MUCH
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Unread 07-29-2016, 05:02 AM   #7
Sam Bailey
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Hi Soccermom,

I understand the blues, I really do. Depression can overwhelm a person. It can, quite literally, break you down. It's a weight that seems impossible to get out from under. It's a darkness.

Thing is, when we ALLOW this darkness to dominate us, we become even less able to break free from it.

One then asks, ok---if we "allow" it, how then can we "dis-allow" it? Apologies for that awkward phrasing, but it's really quite simple, the answer, I mean.

Simple, not always easy.

Soccermom? You must take the reins back, you must reclaim your life and begin (again) driving it, instead of allowing that "dark life" to drive you.

HOW?

In my opinion, the best way to break out of a depression is to stop ISOLATING. We all did it. It was, often, our default comfort zones. That's gotta now stop.

To be replaced with Meetings. Before you say,, meetings are not for me, JUST STOP. It IS the answer You MUST make it work. True, there are many less than good ones (being charitable), but there are others than can literary save your life. In Support Groups. you'll be around real people who either know what your going through, or are going through it themselves---right damn now, just like you!

Please Soccermom, help yourself. Just take that first step into the rooms.

You'll feel the energy and the expectations immediately. People there are on a journey. Join them.

best,

sam
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Unread 07-29-2016, 06:51 AM   #8
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, please do think about going to 4mg. Between the depression and the constipation, that might help a lot. Both of those symptoms are signs that the dose could be too high. And with that long halflife, it could take a few days to notice anything.

Take a look at your pupils in regular light. If they're small, then that's another reason to seriously think about a reduction.

You're also entering a new chapter in your life with an empty nest. Can you find something to fill that? If you don't want to go to meetings as Sam suggested, maybe there are classes on something that you are interested in that will rekindled that interest. Like my town has 'continuing education' classes with a lot of things from languages to making pottery, painting, etc., different fitness classes, writing... You'd be doing something that might bring back that interest and you'd be among people with the same interests.

If the depression continues, please think about counseling. Doesn't have to be addiction counseling, it could be life counseling as you're in this new, I would assume a lot quiet around the house, chapter.

But give a reduction serious thought. If it's not that, you can always go back up a little.

Take good care of you most importantly.

Nancy
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Unread 07-29-2016, 04:09 PM   #9
theswan
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Hello and welcome. Opiates can dull feelings (Duh-do the kids still say Duh?) Point is we can mask a multitude of feelings and even clinical depression. The drug takes all our energy as well so we dont think as much about our physical, mental and spiritual health.

I point this out because many here have blamed the reduction or even the induction to bupe for their woes. Not at all saying you are doing this just a FYI for all who read the posts.

Give it time and do what you can to address any health issues be it talking it out or whatever works best for you. Example, talk therapy can alter the brains chemistry as much as a antidepressent medication but often both can work faster and do have greater benefit. By no means am I suggesting you do either just another point of FYI. People can get quite upset at any thing that smacks of advice or suggestion. From my years in a twelve step program I found it better to share what worked for oneself then tell someone what ought to work for them.

I hope you do better and I can have hopeyou will as I've seen a lot of positive go on here.

Glen
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Unread 07-29-2016, 10:42 PM   #10
Soccermom
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Default Thanks your support is more than i could ask for

First wow,THANKS FOR ALL YOUR ADVICE! I am humbled by it! I am never offended at any advice so keep it coming. I really am or used to be, I should say, a very easy going, funny individual who really saw and still does see the good in most things and the Suboxone saved me at a time that was crucial in my life. It allowed me to be "normal" but now I am not normal anymore and it's time to move to another chapter without this medicine I have to be able to do it without it and I think I can. But I am ALL ABOUT having a support system and unfortunately not many people in my circle know anything about this so that's the hard part and I can't really tell them because it is nothing that anyone understands. I really don't think anyone ever intends to become addicted I think it just happens - of course by decisions we have made but sometimes by the time you are able to see through the fog you don't know how you got there.
How would I go about finding meetings that I might find helpful is there a website per state that lists classes things like that...I did just sign up with a personal trainer once my son goes back to college in August so that is a step I just PRAY that my body will be able to handle exercising if it is hurting. Thanks to all of you for all your thoughts they are all SO HELPFUL.......
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Unread 07-30-2016, 03:07 AM   #11
Sam Bailey
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Hey Soccermom!

There are several Support Group Organizations. Some good, others a rip-off. IMO.

The Support Group that works for me is AA (there's also NA, Narcotics Anonymous and a CA, Cocaine Anonymous).

AA though seems to cover every substance. And boy, those groups are everywhere. AA, I mean. I live in Los Angeles and there's an AA clubhouse/meeting hall/church basement on nearly every corner. Not literally, though it seems like that.

Simply look on-line for Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), your city. No matter WHERE you live, you will be able to find an AA group.

The only requirement for joining AA is a "desire to stop drinking." Or "using." Not "stopped drinking." Or "using."

It's a good place and I definitely encourage you to go to a meeting as soon as you can. Almost certainly you'll find someone who has experienced exactly what you're experiencing.

Now understand, you might have to go to a few different meetings. Not EVERY one of them is great. Some groups are just better than others.

Find a group where you really feel comfortable.

And then walk in, sit down, listen and when you see someone who seems to be having a good life, do what they do.

Best to you, Soccermom.

sam
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Unread 07-30-2016, 07:42 AM   #12
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, here are some links to different support groups:

Celebrate Recovery
Christian-based recovery meetings.
http://www.celebraterecovery.com/

LifeRing
A non-religious self-help recovery organization for individuals who seek group support to achieve abstinence from alcohol and other addictive drugs.
http://lifering.org/

Smart Recovery
Self Management and Recovery Training. Based on ever-evolving scientific knowledge.
http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Secular Organizations for Sobriety
Self-empowerment approach to recovery.
http://www.cfiwest.org/sos/index.htm

Women for Sobriety
Peer support for helping women overcome alcohol dependence and other addictions.
http://www.womenforsobriety.org/

AA
http://www.aa.org/

NA
https://www.na.org/

Some people in some groups are not medication-assisted treatment friendly, so think about is NOT telling anyone you're a bupe patient until you get to know people and even then, if you want to tell people. It's really no one's business but yours, your doctor and anyone you want to tell.

The personal trainer is a fabulous idea! Good for you! For classes like in my town, they send out a listing of them or you can contact your town/city hall and ask if they have anything like that. If you like arts and crafts-type things, Michael's Crafts has in-store painting, cake decorating and classes like that. It could be another facet to add to the personal training and support group meetings. Kind of like mix-n-match.
https://classes.michaels.com/OnlineC...sit=firstVisit

Keep posting too!

Nancy
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Unread 08-09-2016, 02:15 PM   #13
theswan
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As stated, it depends where you live as to the availability of meetings. Larger cities of course are chock full of all manner of meetings. I got sober (I am an alcoholic) in AA and while have been to NA meetings, much prefer my beloved AA (I don't think I'm breaking the anonyminty tradition) by saying I'm in AA but if so, oh well it is not that hard and fast a "rule" in fact there are really no rules just suggestions.

I have strayed away from meetings but am still in touch with the fellowship via my friends being mostly in the fellowship and I still chat with my sponsor now and again.
I've been in recovery since 1987 and was first going in 1978 but did not stop drinking until 1987.

Just be careful in either fellowship about sharing suboxone use. There are way too many people who judge and they are by the way, off the mark but that's another story. My rule of thumb is to share if it were to help another and keep it to yourself and maybe those close to you otherwise.

Or avail yourself to any other means but just do not go it alone.

Best to you

Glen
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Unread 08-11-2016, 07:14 PM   #14
Soccermom
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I know I have been posting under the side effects category but felt like it would be good to give an update over here. I went to my first Celebrate Recovery meeting on Tuesday and it is a very small group just women and I am not going to share with anyone that I am on Suboxone I think that's what you all said - I didn't have to divulge that - I hope that's right because I would rather not. I also have signed up to start with a personal trainer next Monday and Thursday for 90 minutes I hope that's not too long but that's what her program is so I am going to give it a try. This will be the first time since breaking my ankle and getting it all healed that I have tried and doing it while trying to come off of suboxone could I have picked a harder time. Probably not but I am so ready for this....My son's go back to school the beginning of next week and as always that makes me feel empty but I CAN DO THIS!!!!! Hopefully with anyone on here that is willing to comment - I will take anything even just a one word post like "GO"..............
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Unread 08-12-2016, 06:48 AM   #15
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Hi Soccermom. I love all the things you're starting! You absolutely do not have to tell anyone you're bupe patient. It's a medication that is prescribed to you for a medical condition and it's no one's business except for yours, your doctor and whomever you want to tell.

Actually, I think you picked the perfect time to get involved in everything you're doing, especially the exercise. It will get your endorphins going, fill that void with your son going back to school, and hopefully help you keep your mind off of your taper. The less you think about it, the better.

I know you can do this. Ready, set, GO!

Nancy
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Unread 08-12-2016, 11:28 AM   #16
Sam Bailey
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Hey SoccerMom!

Yes, this IS the perfect time to dive into your recovery. Delighted to hear that you're going to CR. Group Support is essential to our recoveries, IMO.

It really is not anyone's business whether or not you share the Sub part of your life and recovery. In fact, as noted by others, for now it's probably NOT a good idea at all to share that part. Ignorance still reigns supreme in some places.

Later on, as you're further into your recovery, you may change your mind. Until then? Keep it to yourself.

That 90 minute exercise program is NOT too much. The more you exercise, the better you will feel---and the better your body will recover! Yeah, you might be a little sore and tender for a while, but that won't stay with you too long. Once your body acclimates, you'll be just fine.

Remember, recovery is more than just getting your body to recover. It's our minds that are usually the bigger problem, the greater challenge. You will, I'm certain, go though lots of emotional ups and downs. Do not forget that you are pointed in the right direction...so even if one day feels crappy, the next day will likely be better...maybe even great.

As long as you're making the right choices, you are getting better. Continue making those good decisions and soon, before you even know it, you'll be enjoying your life, and your family, more than you have in years!

best,

sam
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Unread 08-15-2016, 03:46 PM   #17
Soccermom
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So I started at 4 mg today and I DO NOT WANT THIS TO GET IN MY HEAD. I know there are going to be no side effects from this for a few days but I am starting to feel depressed and edgy. I do start with the trainer this afternoon so that is good and I also just dropped my son at school so the sadness is very much from that. I am really down and to add insult to injury the constipation is reacting to absolutely nothing. Warmed prune juice, miralax , fiber one- I AM AT MY WITS END. That is why I hate that in order to do this without really being miserable you have to taper.......Thanks for being here so I have someone to talk to!!!!
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Unread 08-16-2016, 05:58 AM   #18
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I have been at that same point Soccer mom. My son lives with his Mom majority of the time and every time he goes back there is a void and I feel lost. The others are correct that doing things and keeping active will make a world of a difference in both your mind and body. Keep it up!
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Unread 08-16-2016, 06:33 AM   #19
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, how did your training session go - hoping it was more enjoyable than torturous. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the reduction helps your constipation. Also, as we've seen over the years, depression can be a sign of too high of a dose. I'm thinking positively for you that going to 4mg along with the personal training and CR meetings maybe some of the depression will lift too.

Keep us updated on how you're doing!

Nancy
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Unread 08-17-2016, 03:34 PM   #20
Soccermom
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Default Day 3 I think

So today is my 3rd day at 4mg and I am a little anxious which I was not expecting and depressed. Luckily I have another training session tonight which will help and I had the Celebrate Recovery meeting yesterday. I am worried about the weekend because it will probably be a lot of trying to keep myself occupied and you know what it is like when you have too much time to think. I am trying to remember the vitamins that you all said were good to take.
I am still depressed but I AM NOT QUITTING I THOUGHT TODAY just go back up to 6 and alternate days and I thought NO. I CAN DO THIS
Did anyone else have that jittery feeling going from 6 to 4? I am going to keep going. Thanks to all who are just reading and thanks to those for the encouragement I will take all I can get..

HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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Unread 08-19-2016, 06:14 AM   #21
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, how is day 5 at 4mg? Are the training sessions helping? I would imagine it's difficult to decipher if the depression/anxiety is from the reduction or from the changes in your life with your son gone to school.

Are there any other meetings you can attend this weekend? Any friends you can call up and plan dinner, lunch or even grab a coffee with?

You are right, YOU CAN AND WILL DO THIS!!! Be gentle with yourself, ok?

Nancy
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Unread 08-21-2016, 11:24 AM   #22
Soccermom
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Default Day 7

I have been so elated the past few days thinking that I had a couple of jittery days but had settled in at 4 and then today hit me. I woke up very early and could not go back to sleep. I feel like I have had 3 cups of coffee and I have not had any and yet at the same time I feel blah. I have read before that days 7 - 9 can be hard is that true? I was so relieved yesterday because I really felt no different at 4 than I had at 8 and then at 6. I thought okay another hurdle that I have crossed and I keep thinking that everyone says this is the easy part it's the lower doses that are the hard part.
Then I think to myself how the heck did I even get here at all. If only.........

Thanks for listening.............
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Unread 08-22-2016, 07:00 AM   #23
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, I've honestly never heard of people having trouble on days 7 to 9 when reducing - unless they didn't reduce enough and they needed another reduction. One thing you can look at is your pupils in regular light. Are they normal, big or small?

Were you able to keep yourself busy during the weekend? Hope so!

Nancy
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Unread 08-23-2016, 03:56 PM   #24
Soccermom
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Default Help trying to keep it at 4 but.......

I am so anxious ever since Sunday . Lot's of anxiety and I wondered could anyone say anything about that I am doing everything I can to stay busy and active but everyday around 1 I feel like I am going to crawl out of my skin. Is this part of it and will it level out do you think?
Anyone 's opinion would really be appreciated.
Thanks for listening............
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Unread 08-25-2016, 06:57 AM   #25
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, another thing to think about is maybe the bupe isn't causing the anxiety, but actually helped mask some anxiety. Or is there something going on around 1:00 that triggers feelings of anxiety? Years ago, we had a member who after starting bupe only got cravings around 7pm. After examining that time period, he realized that it was around the time he it would be after supper and cleaning up that he would sit down and take his former drug of choice. So subconsciously, he was still 'waiting' for that time to take it. He switched up his routine for that time and the cravings stopped pretty much immediately. Maybe that's something to try?

Nancy
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Unread 08-25-2016, 10:14 PM   #26
Soccermom
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Default Day 11 I tihnk

I am feeling better I really poured over- Runner- I think that's who it was and took him up on the" really cut out the caffeine" because that on top of the anxiousness your body has getting used to the dose can put you over the top and that has helped tremendously. I am continuing to work out so that's good too. It has been a little harder than I thought not unbearable and somedays just getting through work and making myself exercise were enough and I didn't want to talk to anyone be around anyone but those days were few . Overall it was harder than going to 6 from 8 but not going to kid myself I think 2 will be a challenge. I am going to stay at 4 for a little while and just take my time. But I feel so much better knowing I have gotten down to 4. Thanks again for your help.......
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Unread 08-26-2016, 06:31 AM   #27
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, glad you're feeling better. Yes it was Runner who had to cut the caffeine, and I think there were a few others who did that too and it helped. You can really ease yourself to 2 by alternating 4 and 2, for a while first so you're averaging 3mg. But do it when you're ready.

Very proud of you for continuing to exercise even though you didn't feel like it. How are you sleeping?

Nancy
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Unread 08-30-2016, 02:34 PM   #28
NancyB
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Hi Soccermom, just checking in to see how you're doing!

Nancy
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