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Unread 08-29-2013, 04:31 AM   #101
theswan
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The Bronx has a few decent neighborhoods. Riverdale is a section that has some of the most wealthy people in New York. There are of course many run down areas with high crime but that has always been where poor people have to live.
I live upstate most of the time and it is kinda rural with villages and towns. Poughkeepsie is the biggest city with 35 thousand. I also live with my wife in NYC which is of course huge. We live in a really good area of the Upper west side on Central park west. My wife has been there 37 years and the rent is stabilized. That and she got a great rent because her dad knew the landlord from Austria where he was from.
One brother lives in Yonkers near the Bronx but their hospitals are not as good as the Bronx which is part of NYC, My older brother lives further North and across the river (Hudson)

I am happy to report both are well. Alan (older) just has a chronic cough with no mass's (tumors) so he was put on a medication. (as long as I know him which is all my life he always had a cough) Billy it turns out had to have surgery. The day before the surgery, he lost all feeling in his legs and his hands were numb. Seems he has "spinal stenosis" the day of the surgery he was able to stand up and he has all feeling back in his hands! I am very happy.

My news is not as good. I have sleep apnea and it seems it is very bad. The technician could not give me details but he seemed worried and wanted me to see my doctor ASAP. The woke me to put on a mask because my oxygen dropped off. I was feeling horrible and when the mask went on, I felt worse because of severe anxiety. They tried a nasal mask but I breathe mostly from the mouth (with allergy season even more so)

My doctor has to await the test results before he can order a CPAP and I pray I can get used to it. Meantime I prop up the bed and am trying hard to lose weight.
My pain doctor told me to not take the bupe late in the day if it turns out I have OSA
I am scared now that I may have to get off the bupe or at least cut back a whole lot. Bupe can slow breathing which is the worse thing for me.

So, another self imposed disease. My being overweight and my taking bupe have pretty much been the reason.
I had the test Friday and believe it or not just realized I must get off or at least reduce the bupenorphine.
I take 6 a day so today it will be 5 then 4 in a couple of days. The other drops will be slower but maybe I can get down to 3 a day (I mean 6 milligrams at 2mg each)

More to come. I am awake because the apnea has caused anxiety now for a couple of weeks and it is bad tonight. Not real anxiety but choking and suffocating from lack of oxygen makes me feel like when I have anxiety

Auugh! So sick of being sick

Glen
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Unread 08-29-2013, 05:14 AM   #102
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Hi Glen I am sitting at a computer in the day centre I work and it's 10 o'clock am here now. My, you were awake early given you only typed this a few hours ago.

Sorry you are having problems with your sleep. I must admit that I don't really know much about this type of problem but anxiety connected with breathing problems can be very scary (I've experienced panic attacks). Are you able to practice any relaxation techniques such as body/muscle relaxation and breathing excersise's? I know that this practice has helped some.

Glad things seem better for your brothers.

Are you finding that the dose of bup you take adequately controls your pain? You may well find that, should you lower your dose over time, you get the same level of pain control. The reason I say this is because now that I am on the equivalent of 300mcg 4 times a day, (I usually take it just once or twice a day though but I've experimented with splitting the dose) I really can feel the painkilling effect and even a dose of 400mcg (.4mg) I can feel. Almost like a strong dose of codeine or something like that. But it still takes around 2 hours to take effect as this stuff seems to do. I remember long ago reading about the fact that 'less is more' of bup. and can really see that this is true now. So don't give up cos you may well find that you can control your pain with as little as ,say, .4 for four or five times a day. Keep us informed.

Oh and with regard to asking about the 'Bronx' I hope you didn't think I was making judgements. It's just that I've never had the opportunity of asking these things before and now I can in our 'global community'. Very glad to be able to too! Yeah, just like London, Manchester and other towns here we have segments of poorer people such as on our housing estates (I think you call them projects over there). Then almost next door we have the rich and middle class neighborhoods. In the little south eastern town I reside we have very wealthy people in plush houses next to housing projects where theft and drugs are rife . It's a strange world we live in .

Speak soon and keep us all updated mate.

Leo
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Unread 08-29-2013, 07:14 AM   #103
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Hi Glen, good to hear that your brothers are both fine.

I'm sorry to hear about your sleep study results. As Leo mentioned, do you think you could see if 1mg instead of 2mg works as well? Did you have the breathing/sleep issues before when you stopped taking bupe?

My mom has sleep apnea, when she first got it, she thought she would never get used to the mask, but she adjusted well. She's been using it for a few years now and it really is amazing how much better she feels. So hopefully the same will be for you. Fingers crossed.

Let us know what you find out when you have time.

Nancy
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Unread 08-29-2013, 11:08 PM   #104
theswan
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Thanks Leo and Nancy

No, Leo making a judgement was not at all on my mind. I like to find out about other places too. Sad to say but the world is becoming homogenized. I google mapped Berlin because my mom in law was going there to receive an award and when I went to "street level guess what was there?--A "Subway sandwich" shop! Egads we have them all over New York! I guess the whole world will become one big mall! lol

As far as my anxiety, it has little to do with stress. In fact, my life is about as stress free as can be! Other then dealing with pain and weight issues, life is easy for me and I am a grateful person. No, this anxiety s from lack of oxygen. True after a while I am having a little fear about starting my nights sleep but that is because that is when I lose the oxygen supply. In other words I feel sleepy and well then once I fall into a sleep state, my throat becomes obstructed and my brain awakens me with a start! The feeling is like suffocating. Really, really sucks!

Nancy, I too have my fingers crossed. I hate the mask but as they say is the 'goldstandard' of care for OSA so I pray I'll get used to it.

Now the waiting stinks because number one, nothing can be done until we get the official report and that takes up to two weeks! Number two: once we have the report, it takes who knows how long until insurance allows it!

Geeze! it is times like this universal healthcare for all seems so important. This really needs to be in the hands of a doctor not a claims adjuster.

Well anyway, I will try bed soon so wish me luck.

Glen
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Unread 09-01-2013, 08:09 AM   #105
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Hello Glen. I quickly went through your thread to catch up a little and read about your sleep apnea. I have a friend who has that, and he too needs to lose weight, and it is caused from that. I also watched that show "extreme weight loss makeover " and a guy on there had it and they recorded him sleeping and he only breathed like twice every minute...it was scary. Once he lost all the weight, he didnt need the machine anymore.
So.... have you tried any types of weight loss groups? What about weight watchers ? I know you cant get intense exercise, but it all boils down to calories in vs. calories out (as Im sure you know) so as long as you count the calories and eat good food, you should lose weight.
Have you ever tried meloxicam or voltarin? I just got voltarin from the doctor and its the best anti inflammitory I have ever taken. It really works good. Maybe as you lower your bupe dose you can add one of those and it will help your pain.

well, just wanted to say hello. take care!
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Unread 09-02-2013, 05:34 AM   #106
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I know and have know for years that I must have sleep apnea. The weird part is how fast it got really bad. (well maybe not that fast because in January or Feb. I found out about my Afib which is related to OSA) But the lack of sleep along with "sleep panic" came about quickly.
Sucks because it is after all self inflicted and that brings me to tears. I have been anywhere from 250 in my football playing days to as high as 340 for a while. I average about 275. A week ago I was 300.5 and today, 288
Not only does it cause the OSA but it makes all of my pain worse and must have caused me to be diabetic. This hurts because it comes down to addiction and while able to defeat alcohol/drugs and tobacco, food holds it's grip on me.

I was in WW last year with my wife-she is still on it and has lost well over 100 pounds! Her diabetes is pretty much gone and she no longer has joint pains. Knowing this gives me hope and I may join again. not to be a cop out but right now my apnea is so bad, everyday parts of living are a chore and counting points is not going to be easy nor do I have a "will" to do it right now. I am however making changes like no food after 8pm and cutting down on sweets. I have 3 yogurt and berry shakes a day with stevia in them and a sensible meal at around 5pm. the weight is coming off unless like Saturday night, I get into the sweets.
Wow Voltaren, that was like magic for me in 1988. my knees felt like I'd never walk well again. I played 7 volleyball games in a row after years of inactivity (except drinking, 1988 was my first year of sobriety after coming to AA in November of '87) I read Mickey Mantle swore by it for his knees so I asked my doctor. wow and wow! It cured my knees 100% however, after that, it never worked again for some reason.
Now i can not take NSAID's like these mentioned because I'm on blood thinners.

The good news is there is hope and there are things to be done. I therefore sally forth with hope.

Glen
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Unread 09-02-2013, 08:19 AM   #107
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Hello. I asked my doctor if it was ok to take voltarin long term and he said yes...but Im not on blood thinners. I dont take it every single day, well pretty close though. Its 50mg 3x a day. Anyways, thats great your wife lost 100 lbs! wow!
I understand food is an addiction just like any other substance. As a matter of fact, food was my first addiction, at age 15, but the opposite way....lack of food was my choice. I was anorexic from 15-17. Then at 19 tried cocaine and it all went to hell from there.
Anyhow, Im here with you on your journey, and hope you get it all figured out. Shoot, Ivew known you for quite a while now Glen!
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Unread 09-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #108
theswan
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Thank you Deanna

Yeah it is kind weird how we seem to all know each other here in cyberland! I mean heck for all you know I could be a female Eskimo sitting in an igloo (where the heck I get my WFi is the mystery!)
No realy, it is nice to know there are people we may never met who do care about our lives.

Again I slept at my wifes place (I should really just say "our" place in NYC) and had no issues to speak of as to sleep apnea. So the key for me is to invest in an adjustable bed (expensive though)
Any further issues with body image or anorexia? My heart goes out to anyone with this issue. I feel it is all related to a soul sickness, a deep pain we are not even aware of hence we need a higher power to relieve it. When I started suboxone in 2008 my unit where the clinical trial was at three subtypes of trial patients on diffrent regimins. Us pain patients on opiates, depressives and anorexic's. They were such pretty young ladies in so much pain. We all got along well even though we had different diagnosis's.

Sorry for taking so long, with my brother having chemo/radaition and the other being rehabbed for stenosis (along with my sleep apnea) I have been sidetracked.

God bless and I hope I come back and write more often

Glen
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Unread 09-24-2013, 05:43 AM   #109
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I watched the 'Karen Carpenter story' film the other night at mom's. So sad and such an angelic voice, still to be heard on our radio's a lot to this day.

A comment Karen's psychiatrist made about her anorexia on the film struck me; He said that people with this illness can feel that what they eat and how much is all they can control in their lives. It struck me because I have become friendly with an anorexic girl of 25 (who seems to have the body mass of a twelve year old). When I asked her why she does not eat more than a strawbury for breakfast and wouldn't she rather have some toast, she put her hand up and said "no no no, that's something in life I can control".

Payers go out for all with this dreadful illness!

Leo
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Unread 09-24-2013, 07:02 AM   #110
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Hi Glen, keeping you and your brothers in my thoughts.

I hope you're not neglecting your own health - take care of yourself, ok?

Nancy
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Unread 09-29-2013, 06:40 AM   #111
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Thanks Nancy and thanks Leo

I admire my wife's ability to stick to her eating plan although she has gone a little too far. Her plan is to get below her goal which she has already reached. How far below I am not sure but she is 131 now and at 5 foot 7 she looks kinda gaunt to me.
I know she gets a feeling of power weighing herself and she is always asking if she looks skinny. We both share addictive personalities and I understand where she is coming from.
My lack of control is getting to hurt me a lot. Each day I start out trying to eat right and each day so far have failed.

The sleep issue is still with me (I got up at 5am after going to bed here upstate at nearly 2am) I am falling asleep for "seconds" as I sit here and awake with a "start" and feel suffocated. I will try to sleep again when the sun rises. Seems the daylight gives me comfort.
I do have good news and that is my niece, Sarah who just had her 4th girl (Baby Catherine named after her greatgrand ma who died a couple of years ago) has asked me to be the godfather. I am Sarah's godfather and this will make Catherine my 3rd godchild and I feel wonderful about this.
Oh yeah another good thing that happened this month was the 3rd and last niece has gotten married and it was a wonderful wedding (well to be honest, the kids today seemed to have gotten away from standards like the "Alley cat, Electric slide" and "Bride cuts the cake" rituals. Yeah I know they are silly yet they for some reason are held dearly in my heart. By the way, my wife looked wonderful in a wine colored slinky long dress. I had a tan suit we just bought with a wine colored tie and I look kinda like a cross between colonel Sanders and smokey the bear!

Billy is better and has walked around the block under the eye of his physical therapest. I called Alan who was in his first week of chemo/radiation and he was so far doing well but he has been through this and says the first week nothing feels bad yet. Later he may "dry" up a little and have hair loss and nasusea.
Sarah send all family members a poem she wrote about the boredom her father (Alan) must go through and asked us all to send in lottery "scratch off" tickets to help fight the boredom. Alan loves scratching these tickets and will do these before opening any gifts he gets on birthdays etc. I'll send him a bunch.

My pain has been bad and I have calf pain now like a charley horse that never goes away. I bought some cheap sneakers and this may be the cause. I'll wear better footwear for a time to see.

I am worried about a think called I believe "hyperanagesia" or something like that. The bupe is not working well and I have begun to take more then prescribed and this is never a good sign in fact, I think I need to cut back. Cutting back may actually have the opposite effect as one may think. So, today, I go down one pill and then will go down two pills to four a day.
My concern is my body has gotten used to the medication and secondly, the major issues going on has caused me to self medicate my stress with subutex.

I know I should tell the doctor when I see him in 12 days but fear he will start to wean me off altogether. I'll see how I do on my own and really do not think it will be an issue. The only bad thing is all I can take now to augment the sub is tylenol due to the blood thinners I take. Never thought I'd miss my ibuprofen.

Anyway, I'm off to google hyperalgesia!

God bless

Glen
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Unread 09-29-2013, 07:50 AM   #112
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Hi Glen, I hope your wife isn't becoming obsessed with losing weight - do you think she's becoming anorexic? Does she recognize that she may have lost too much weight?

Have you ever used one of those calorie counting sites to log everything? This one is pretty popular and I believe it has an 'app' for a smart phone:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/
Do you think logging everything will help because then you can actually see what you're eating and when and then perhaps make changes?

Congratulations on being the Godfather to baby Catherine. That is really special. They didn't do the cake cutting at the wedding - was there a cake or did they something else instead?

Glad your brother Billy is up and walking. How many weeks of chemo will Alan be undergoing?

I'm glad you recognize that you're medicating your stress with the buprenorphine. That should make it a little easier to question yourself before taking more bupe. As for the hyperalgesia, it sounds like rebound pain and reducing your dose may indeed help as you're thinking. Here's an older thread about rebound pain:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=22530

Let us know if reducing your dose helps with the pain. Get some sleep!

Nancy
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Unread 09-30-2013, 05:12 AM   #113
theswan
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I reduced by one yesterday so time will tell.

Sadly I awoke in a panic from lack of oxygen and am suffering a bit. Knowing I will feel better as I oxygenate helps. I felt like a dose of bupe would help but looked at my pupils and they were very small and knew then that a dose would not help and may indeed hurt.
My wife who gets up at 4-5am anyway, awoke 15 minutes ago and is in a full blown anxiety attack partly because she went on a binge after breaking the 130 pound mark. She wants me to be a cryig shoulder and I feel like getting dressed and sitting in the park to get away from her. Auugh two people having a panic at 5am is not my idea of fun.

She has calmed down and I feel horrible that I was not able to help but after begging her to look at the positives and not dwell on how horrible her life is due to her eating disorder, she just got deeper and deeper into how horrible her life is and I felt life I was about to explode-thank God she is feeling a little better as I am as well.
My anxiety is however, due to lack of oxygen and lucky for me, it gets better as I breathe and repay any oxygen debt or whatever the process is. I hope I get back to sleep. One fear that makes it hard is a person worries about trying to sleep only to awaken in a worse state due to choaking down as the airway gets closed.

Anyway I cannot concentrate with all that is going on. Bad time for a dual panic! Auugh.

Gotta at least smile at the irony ( I cam down to get comfort and sleep now I want to jump on an early train and escape)

Glen
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Unread 09-30-2013, 06:10 AM   #114
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Morning Glen from the UK.

When you said in a recent post; "My lack of control is getting to hurt me a lot. Each day I start out trying to eat right and each day so far have failed." I kind of smiled in a ironic kind of way. I too do that kind of thing. Currently it's with alcohol. I'm not drinking dangerously or really heavily, just around a couple of cans a day. But it's just that I tell myself that I wont have them 'today' but always seem to fail. I don't dwell on it cos I'm no alcoholic but my mum does the same thing with food in the evenings (she too is calorie counting). She says to herself that she wont eat more than she needs in the evenings, but always does.

It seems that us humans really have trouble avoiding our 'forbidden fruit' !

Best wishes
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Unread 10-01-2013, 04:28 AM   #115
theswan
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Hi

Yes it really stinks. I have had this battle with eating for a lifetime and I have paid a dear price. Just about every problem my health has is a direct result of it. (Diabetes, knee problems, sleep apnea and increased back and body pain)
I do not want to complain because things can always be worse. My brother beat cancer 16 years ago and a now has lung cancer, people are unable to walk (while I must use a cane and am limited, I still can walk) All this and the fact that I have many gifts such as a wonderful wife, family and friends make it hard to dwell on the poor me's. Still it seems such a simple "fix" and some days I desire to just have a semi-fast just to get started. I also have two things going against me due to the sleep apnea and this really sucks: One is my body produces too little "leptin" which tells the brain the body is full and two: Too much "Ghrelin" a hormone that informs the brain to eat!
How sleep apnea does this neat trick is beyond me! Fact is I for years could at least get started on a diet and today, I seem unable to get past day one,

Well anyway, I took 4 subutex today (2mg) and really can not tell if my pain level dropped but time will tell and I believe all in all that the dropping of dosage will be of benefit all around

Glen
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Unread 10-01-2013, 11:09 PM   #116
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Pain level is up but my sugar level is also up. Maybe the high sugar leads to the sleep apnea (OSA) Obstructive sleep apnea shortened. I had a rather sleepless night and am back upstate hoping I'll get some sleep tonight.

I have half a mind to take some NSAID my wife has mexocam or something like that. It is supposed to be less prone to causing bleeding issues. I'll ask the doctor this week but do not see the cardiologist until next month and the primary may throw that ball into his court (I am on warfarin a blood thinner)

Cut back on the subutex but did take 6 today because my pain was so bad and second, I was up pretty much 24 hours so there was extra time in the day to be hurting.

We have choir practice tomorrow that is why i'm back up here. I have been missing out "unofficial" 10 am 'Gig's at Mass because I have been staying up too late and have been unable to be up or if I am up, I'm too sleepy to be of any use. I really really hate the OSA how it effects the things I love doing.

Otherwise, I'm doing ok as is my wife. She actually has her voice coach coming in 6 hours a day to assist her in doing her housework and "papers" (because of severe issues with OCD personality disorder she has a very, very hard time doing tasks at the same time she will not delegate this to me because of the control issue part of her disorder) I'll just give a normal day to illustrate how tough this is on her. (She gets up at 4:30am pretty much every day and has a bathroom routine that takes a couple of hours. then e-mail and getting her ducks in a row can take another few-bottom line, it can take her 7 hours just to be ready and able to go out to do chores but most days she is stuck home) This breaks my heart and I wish there was some medication or therapy that works but she has tried so many things. We both believe that because she misused diet pills for years (she is off them many years now) her once brilliant skills at detail work has gone 180 degrees in the other direction and she not only has a hard time getting through tasks but avoids them as well.

Anyway this is not really the place to get into her issues except as it relates to my own I suppose.

Tomorrow is a new day and I'll sally forth in good cheer in hopes of turning things around

Glen
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Unread 10-02-2013, 07:21 AM   #117
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Hi Glen, I saw in Wayne's thread you were up early this morning. Hopefully you will be able to get back to sleep so you can get to choir practice today.

How is it working for your wife having that help during the day? Do you think it might help her to get into some type of routine that might help in the long run?

When do you see the doctor this week? If he's going to throw that question into your cardiologist's court, think about asking him to contact him asap so you don't have to wait another month to find something out.

Hope you're sleeping now.

Nancy
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Unread 10-02-2013, 11:41 PM   #118
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Having her voice coach as a mentor helps so far.

Let me explain that I have offered many solutions but she is too stuck in her OCD to accept changes. I offered to take care of paying the bills. She would not even consider it. There are box's under the piano and on the couch that contains clothes and other items. Stuff has been building up ala "hoarders" but not quite that bad. I offered to take stuff to my place and fill some of my closets but she is fearful of not having her stuff nearby. My wife has serious issues of losing things. If I ever pick her her clothing from the tailor for example, I have to promise to hold onto it a certain way so that it can not be taken from my hands by some criminal.
she is very possessive but she is by no means cheap-she just puts high value on her stuff. She buys in such bulk that many things lose their usable dates such as some cosmetics that seperate and some food stuff.

All of this is hearbreaking for both of us. By the way, she has a routine but the main issue is one of elimination. I cannot go into details except to say diet pills and laxatives have severely altered her life and she can no longer eliminate in the usual way. (This limits us going anywhere because she has to insist on seeing the bathroom of the motels first)

So, she has a routine but gets lost in details.

I'll can in to see my doctor in the morning as they had no regular appointments but keep open a same day slot for the ill.

Glen
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Unread 10-03-2013, 07:07 AM   #119
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Hi Glen, that is really heartbreaking to hear how difficult it is for you two. Hopefully her voice coach will be able to continue to help her each day.

Please let us know if you could get that same-day opening at the doctor. Fingers crossed.

Nancy
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Unread 10-04-2013, 03:47 AM   #120
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Sorry that I am complaining a lot lately but my sleep apnea is keeping me from a good nights sleep. I am up now at 3am and even fear trying to sleep. I have gone down to the city because of the adjustable bed but woke up after 4 hours sleep (happy to get that)
My wife's issues of course impact my life but she has God in her life and is usually accepting of her lot in life. Today at 10am her voice coach will give a lesson and then afterwards will help with her house/paperwork so I will not be able to sleep past 10am or at least very well.
I actually do not feel bad now that I have taken in a lot of oxygen althought I awoke with low oxygen anxiety (sleep panic)
I see my bupe doctor next Friday and have shortened my supply of subutex. One reason has been taking them at weird hours out of habit, in other words rather then checking that it has been 4 hours since my last dose, I'll take it "whenever" I awaken. I of course did not take one now due to my having to stretch out my remaining pills. It looks like instead of six a day I'll have but 2-3 a day (4mg-6mg)
I also know I have been under a great deal of stress and a dose of bupe seems to help relieve anxiety. Anyway this is not the first time and I am concerned and must pay attention. As I have been cutting my dose the past few days, I suppose I will not have the added stress of beginning to have WD symptoms (that would suck at this juncture)
At say 6mg for two days then 4mg for 4 days (next Friday I get a new prescription hence 7 days) will this dose be enough to keep WD at bay?

As I said, I am concerned althought not as concerned as I am over my OSA issue and lack of sleep. Owing to my addictive nature it of course scares me that I have placed myself in this position but again. In a way it may work out as a help to reduce as it has to help with my night breathing therefore also with the OSA.

Auugh! I have come so far and have such blessings in my life and it sucks to have such a treatable condition take control.

I swa the doctor and he was ok prescribing Celebrex but the co-pay was $35 and my other script was $15 and I just cannot afford it right now considering it may not even work and the risk of bleeding it may cause. I had a sonogram to rule out DVT as the cause which was my concern. That new pain in ny calf stinks but takes a second seat compared to my sleep apnea right now.

Let me go back to sleep althought I wish it were light out. Daylight comforts me as weird as it sounds

Thanks Nancy and all for listening to me

Glen
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Unread 10-04-2013, 08:31 AM   #121
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Up again and got a total of 7 hours some decent other, not so good sleep. I can tell by how soaked my pillow is.

My feet have been "Flintstone" swollen and this is a side effect of the afib drug I take. I have read a possible connection between sleep apnea and cardizem. Maybe my heart drug is making this OSA worse. I may ask to go back to the beta blockers. Hard to get my shoes on and I feel like I am walking on pillows! lol

Not really funny but ya gotta laugh

Glen
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Unread 10-04-2013, 09:04 AM   #122
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Hi Glen, glad you were able to get back to sleep. What's going on with the sleep apnea - will you be getting a CPAP? I looked back in the thread and couldn't find anything about it.

Can you take an over-the-counter diuretic to see if that will help with your feet?

As for cutting down on the -tex. I think your plan looks good and I don't think you'll have any withdrawals from cutting back 2mg. Another thing you could do if you're a little fearful of that is to take 4mg today, 6mg tomorrow, 4mg, 6mg, and then 4 until you go back to your doctor next week instead of 6, 6, then 4. Just another thought.

Don't blame you for not trying the Celebrex right now - that risk of bleeding doesn't sound worth it - especially with everything else going on.

Keep us posted on how you're doing.

Nancy
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Unread 10-06-2013, 12:38 AM   #123
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My heart doctor was called about the swollen feet. He said it was not from the calcium channel blocker but I talked him into changing it back to a beta blocker. I an on "Metroprolol" my second day but by accident I took both in the morning.

I messed up on my dose as I said but it is worse then I thought unless I hid some which I have done before sorta like an alcoholic hiding bottles around the house so he always has enough. I have just 7 pills and 5 days to go!!

For two days I have been at 4 pills a day and will go to 2 tomorrow then one each day so that is 4mg then 2mgX4 days Think I'll be ok? I think so if for nothing else, the long half life should carry the day (I hope)
In a way it may be a good thing because I wanted to reduce because of the apnea and now I have no choice and will see how my pain issue will be.
Funny but the calf muscle that hurt so bad is 70% healed weird I thought. Anyway just 2 1/2 hours of sleep in my upstae bed and tonight I am back in NYC with the "good" bed.

Had a good time last night as we went to the racetrack and my brother who had surgery wanted to go so we picked him up (he lives a mile away but the track is near 70 miles away from me.)

Just give me some good news about going from 8mg to 4mg then 2mg i so few days please!

Not too worried but maybe I should be?

Glen
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Unread 10-06-2013, 06:53 AM   #124
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Hi Glen, that's good to hear that your brother is feeling well enough to go out. Did you win anything at the track?

In my opinion, you might have a harder time with the pain than with withdrawals reducing like that. Think about cutting the 2mg pills in half and spreading that out during the day. It might help your pain a little more?

I have my fingers crossed.

Nancy
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Unread 10-06-2013, 07:27 AM   #125
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Hello Nancy.

We won about $50 each (the guy I usually pool money with, brother made about $20) In the long run, we like 90% of bettors lose but we go for the fun as much as for a chance to win.
Yes my brothers progress is excellent and I also got a "call back" from my brother Alan who while raspy voiced and going bald, said he feels good and is doing ok. He has a month and a half to go until the round of chemo/radiation is done.

Excellent idea about cutting the subutex. They are the Teva brand which I rarely get (I think it is Teva but since I see someone else has posted about a back order of this brand, maybe Teva was the one I had been getting for this is only the second or third time I got these long oval shaped one's that are easier to cut) I thought about that and gotta admit I had mixed feelings. What came to me was "sure if I cut down the pills I'll have a better chance of having pain control; But...The pain control will be a lot less so maybe it is better to get a greater deal of relief albeit in a lesser time frame!"
Auuugh, that seems like flawed thinking and I had better take a look at my motives. So, yes today maybe instead of dosing twice with 2mg, maybe I'll mke it 4 times with half a pill. That or I'll try to stretch 2mg and therefore have more for the next few days.
Anyway, I agree the pain issue trumps fear of WD due to a rapid withdrawal. As my brothers are both seeming to recover, my stress level ought to improve. I see the specialist for my OSA on the 17th and she has helped many says my doctor plus my doctors office is currently looking into getting the test results (second sleep study that I could not complete because I could not wear the mask) and trying to get the CPAP which I believe I can and will get used to usig it at home.
My doctor and/or the sleep center dropped the ball and had not followed up on obtaining/sending the second test result or lack of but my doctors office is looking into it.

My wife now wants to have a two day getaway to Maine to enjoy the foilage and that made my mood improve because she wanted to put it off because we spent so much on the wedding (clothing and gift) Driving while we leave her OCD behind is prehaps the most fun thing we do!

Glen
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Unread 10-07-2013, 04:58 AM   #126
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Darn it!

Awoke at 4am then fell asleep on my back which is the worse thing. I awoke at 4:17am gulping air like a fish out of water.

Some good news has to do with my swollen feet. They have gotten better since I switched back to a beta blocker and 4 pounds came off overnight in bloat weight. Funny that the doctor said the cardizem should not be causing this but it seems it did. My family doctor blamed it as well as it being on the list of side effects at 8% of people getting edema.

Not sure if it is good or bad but my pulse ever since I've had afib seems so weak.

Took 2mg X 2 yesterday and today will take 2mg only and may cut it in two or three pieces. Pain was ok and I used tylenol to help. I suppose if it gets bad I can take some prilosec before taking maybe 200mg of motrin. Tuesday is my half dose day of blood thinner so that should be a good day to try it if need be. I can just take the pain for a few days if I have to with partial relief from the bupe I have left.

I can if I must take an extra one day becase I have 5 left and have Monday-Thursday to worry about as I get a new prescription filled Friday by noon (would be sooner except for the "pre-auth" they often but not always require)
I just like having a pill for that day in case they do not have it in stock etc.

Anyway, I hope I learned my lesson and then again, things with my brothers have settled down and that lowers my stress and pain levels.

Glen

Last edited by theswan; 10-07-2013 at 04:58 AM.. Reason: speeling
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Unread 10-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #127
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Hi Glen, sounds like a fun day at the races either way - but a little better with an extra $50 when you left. Hopefully with your brothers doing better, that will help with your anxiety. And the getaway to Maine will be a nice change too. When will you be going?

That is really good news about the swelling going down in your feel and losing the bloat weight! Another less thing to worry about for you.

Can you call the pharmacy ahead of time just to make sure they'll have the -tex there for you on Friday? Then you can scratch that off of your list to be concerned about.

Hope you could get back to sleep.

Nancy
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Unread 10-07-2013, 05:29 PM   #128
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Thanks you read my mind. I know one pharmacist by name-Neal and I handed him a request for "Subutex 2mg sublingual tab Generic Buprenorphine"
One 2mg tab Q4hrs Prn-pain #180 tabs"
I told him I may not be in the city on Wed or thurs so here is my usual request (I do this each month)
He said he'd order it right then. He is a nice guy who speaks to me in Yiddish from time to time. He knows I do not know a lot of the sayings but he will explain it to me. He had thought I was Jewish because my wife was born Jewish (so by connection of marriage that makes me Jewish??!! lol)
He is a really nice guy but not the owner. The owner is Indian or Pakistani and also a nice guy. I gave them a good online rating on one of those services like Yelp or the like.

As per Maine. I'd lie to after the 20th which for us would be that Monday or Tuesday. We do not work so week days work out better. The key will be the foilage cover at the time. We went too early last time and had little color 4 years ago. They are North of us but where we go is coastal and it does not get as cold. In fact Poughkeepsie temp is usually right about the same as Maine (we go south of Portland some 17 miles and North of Kennebunkport by a few. We stop at Kennebunkport because a trolley place is there with running trollies and about 200 in their collection called "seashore museum" I know you have one up their in Branford because I have been there as few times as well. I love trains and anything like trains!)

I slept a decent amount and will try tonight upstate. I have to see the blood thinner clinic tomorrow.

Glen
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Unread 10-09-2013, 10:51 PM   #129
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In NYC and got some sleep. My doctor says he awaits hearing from the sleep specialist I see the 17th to se what she recommends. Down to about 1 3/4mg tomorrow only have maybe 1 1/2mg left until Friday but that should get me through. I plan on taking 4 a day and start to save up like I did last time.

Glen
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Unread 10-10-2013, 07:17 AM   #130
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Hi Glen, glad you got some sleep. Where is the sleep doctor, in the city? Are you doing ok on your reduced dose - is there much difference in the pain relief on 1mg-ish versus 2mg?

That's great that your pharmacy is so accommodating. Especially with some horror stories we hear about ignorant pharmacists/techs. Jewish by marriage. lol!

How's the foliage Poughkeepsie way? It's sporadic around here. I have a feeling we're not going to have the masses of colors. Some trees already turned. Some went from green to brown and then right off the trees. But there have been some brilliant oranges on a few maples around here. Hopefully it's better up in Maine. You'll probably be much better off going during the week than the weekend - too many 'leaf peepers' make the trek during the weekend.

Nancy
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Unread 10-12-2013, 04:49 AM   #131
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We always go weekdays because we can!

My pain was not too controlled and I have to say I had the start of WD's. Very happy to have gotten my prescription filled today. My wife wants me to give her 15 a month so we can start to stockpile. She suggests I take 6 each other day and 5 each other day which will leave me 15 extra. She was sad to see me begin to suffer WD
What happened was I took my last dose of about 1 1/4mg Thursday at 11am at 11:30 PM I awoke drenched in a cold sweat with chills. I took a hot bath and felt better but also had a vague "anxiety" feeling (not a true panic more like hypervigilant feeling and irritated.) I went to the doctor at 8 45am and got the news at around 9:50am that I needed a "pre-auth" which I kinda expected but still was not happy and was starting to sweat again. I speed dialed my worker an explained I was in NYC but did not want to spend the whole day awaiting a pre auth and would she please look for the "template" in the Fax box and foreward it to the nurse so she could approve it and send it back to "Expresscripts" who provides for workers comp. She was so nice and put me on hold then came back to say she had gotten the fax (fast acting because the pharmacist had just processed it not ten minuets before) and she said in an hour ask then to try putting the script through again. I went home (NYC home) and changed my clothes because I wet right through them with sweat then an hour to the minute I went back and volia! it was ready. Wow! fast work I must say. I quickly took a dose and felt better a few minutes later.

Not at all happy with the WD and it was partly due to me taking a big cut as much as it was from my several hour gap from my last dose (11am to 11pm)

well that's the story now to try and sleep up here!

Glen
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Unread 10-12-2013, 06:48 AM   #132
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Hi Glen, if you can do that alternating like your wife suggested, that would be great so you don't suffer through that again. Or, if taking 1mg helped, you could try that every 4 hours instead of 2mg. Then you'd have a bit more for those days when the pain was worse. I'm just glad that that woman worked with you so quickly!

You better get up north! They said on the radio this morning that peak leaf peeping up north is this weekend. Still sporadic at best in central Connecticut though.

Hope you were able to sleep!

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Unread 10-15-2013, 04:27 AM   #133
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Not doing well as I did not sleep well two nights.

After my withdrawal like sweats, the next day I had to throw up and was full of sweat even with the subutex.

See the sleep doctor Thursday and I pray she has some suggestions

Feeling terrible

Glen
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Unread 10-15-2013, 07:02 AM   #134
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Hi Glen, do you think you have some kind of virus - the sweating and vomiting? I hope you can get some answers Thursday. You need sleep!

Fingers crossed.

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Unread 10-16-2013, 03:04 AM   #135
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I have thought about the virus part.

What I thought was WD may not have been because I took all 6 pills the next day and threw up after sweating profusly. That would be a good thing in this case because It will go away lol

At wife's and up at 3am feeling a bit down. Got about 4 hours

Glen
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Unread 10-16-2013, 07:25 AM   #136
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Hi Glen, have you thrown up again? Was there any correlation between when you did and taking the bupe? Just wondering out loud that if taking 6 pills after cutting back had anything to do with it.

Were you able to get back to sleep?

Nancy
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Unread 10-17-2013, 04:47 AM   #137
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Glen.

In my experience. When I've messed with doses and gone into withdrawal, even taking my usual dose again can take a few days to bring about stability again. Give it time mate and keep to regular doseing from now on and you'll probably find yourself feeling much better in a couple more days.

God Bless

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Unread 10-18-2013, 01:06 AM   #138
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Yeah maybe. I'm doing ok now and I do think I may have been under a virus. Saw the sleep doctor and she was very nice and told me about options. She will order the CPAP for me and I must come in to do a desensitivation program to get used to the mask. i took a mask home to try and get used to it

Real tired now so off to bed and sleep I hope

Glen
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Unread 10-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #139
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I got 4 hours straight and a couple more so 6 total (sleep)

My diet attempts are not doing well but each day is a new one and I do try. Not to make an excuse but to show how tough it is has to do with the sleep apnea. The lack of oxygen causes the release of a hormone that makes one hungry and inhibits leptein that makes one feel full. So I am hungry and never feel full! That really sucks!
I had a decent size meal and was very hungry as I finished and felt I could eat it all over again.

Oh well, just keep breathing I say

Glen
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Unread 10-19-2013, 04:53 AM   #140
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Best wishes Glen. Have a great weekend mate. Are you starting to find some stability now you've settled back on a regular dose? I find if I mess around it can take a few days for my body to settle again..
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Unread 10-20-2013, 12:32 AM   #141
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My sleep doctor is in Rheinbeck and that is 22 miles North. She was so nice and offered a lot of hope. I liked how she got right on the ball and made an appointment for me on the 31st (Halloween, I told that "wow that is a good day to try on a mask")

Anyway, I am getting used to the non working mask.

I am still taking the subutex kinda willy nilly and I really need to set a schedule and stick to it-so that is my current vow!

I will become a Godfather tomorrow for baby Catherine (my godchild's 4th daughter) Then Monday off to Maine. Sleep sucks but I take what I can get and have even napped which I could never do

Glen sleepy now and can hardly see the keys off to beddy bye
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Unread 10-20-2013, 07:34 AM   #142
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Hi Glen, hahaha - good day to try on a mask! Love it. I'm glad you liked the doctor and that she seems very proactive. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the real mask helps you immensely.

Have a great day today and a fun time in Maine. The leaves around here started to change all of a sudden it seems. Some are blazingly beautiful. Others, not so much -kind of turn brown and fall off.

Hope you got more sleep!

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Unread 10-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #143
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We have a lot of color but also a lot of green almost 50/50 problem last year, the leaves fell when they were green and it never go much better.

Going tomorrow to Maine

Glen
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Unread 10-21-2013, 07:03 AM   #144
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I hope you and your wife have a nice getaway Glen!

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Unread 10-25-2013, 08:03 AM   #145
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Well we had a few decent days but did not getaway. We went for drives instead. My wife was too stressed out and in hindsight, it was best for me too. My apnea has gotten bad and I think the bupe is another problem.

I for some reason am feeling like crap when I take the subutex. I cut down but still feel tired and kinda drugged.

The insurance denied the clinic so they sent a medically need letter. so now I wait (sigh)

I have been real irriatble and it is in large part due to lack of sleep

Gotta go

Glen
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Unread 10-26-2013, 07:43 AM   #146
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Hi Glen, glad you had some decent days anyways.

Do you feel like crap all the time - or is at some point after you take the -tex?

I hope you can get that insurance/clinic thing straightened out fast.

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Unread 10-27-2013, 12:04 AM   #147
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Hi Nancy

I think I need to step back before I write and think about my current situation. No, it is not too much subutex. It is as usual, lack of sleep due to being choked down. I have an "oxygen debt" that I can actually feel. Some early awakenings, I sit at the side of the bed gasping in air. I get up and go outside, walk around etc and eventually feel normal again.
The good news is I'll eventually be doing better with the apnea as I am slowly getting used to the mask and the doctor ordered that already (CPAP home machine) the other good news is number one, I do not have anxiety or at least a "real" anxiety, it is lack of sleep and oxygen and number two, there is a good chance I will recover.

Weight loss is slow but I am doing better.

Saw "Captain Phillips" and really enjoyed it. I knew the ending because it was news and a true story yet still was excited by the movie

Glen
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Unread 10-27-2013, 07:30 AM   #148
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Hi Glen, I'm glad that you don't have anxiety and the doctor ordered the CPAP. I really think that's going to make a huge difference for you. Fingers crossed anyways.

That's great that you're doing better at weight loss - slow is better than nothing, right?

Hope you have a good day!

Nancy
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Unread 10-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #149
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Weight loss had been the key for years because simply said, 90% of my health problems are either caused by being from 240 to 340 pounds most of my adult life. One can argue that my spondlylolithesis and car accident had nothing directly to do with weight but indirectly the weight makes it a lot worse.
The sleep apnea and afib caused by the apnea are a direct problem caused by excess weight as is my cholesterol (under very good control with a statin callled Zocor) and type II diabetes.

Really sad and it hurts to think I did this to myself but if everyone took a look at themselves they'd see their lifestyle had a thing or two to do with their current health issues be it stress induced/drug induced or diet and/or smoking induced, it has a lot to do with lifestyle.

Auuugh! well at least there is hope and still a good humor about it all.

Glen
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Unread 11-13-2013, 02:50 AM   #150
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Nancy, maybe you or Tim can look into this. My sleep apnea is upon me again after being "not so bad for a few days" I Googled "Bupe and sleep apnea" and a doctor Junig wrote that smaller amounts of subutex worked like regular mu opiates and as far as sleep apnea, it was better to take 8-16mg then less then 8mg a day

I think this doctor may have written here before as his "subzone" site seems familiar.
To be honest when I was running out and took 4-6mg a day, I felt better as far as the sleep apnea was concerned.

Let me know of any "facts" on this please.

Glen (up early feeling crappy OSA related)
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