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Unread 01-13-2015, 01:58 PM   #1
Runner
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Default Things I learned from my taper...

I'm on week 5 of jumping off suboxone and I've never found a thread about things that can help the taper process. I'm putting this out there to help anyone trying to get off subs. Please anyone that is off add whatever you like also to help others. This process doesn't have to be painful. I had very few withdrawl symptoms until I got under 2mgs.

1- I didn't get off suboxone over night. For me, I tapered a little over a year. I worked a program(a great sub program with a psychiatrist). I changed every single addictive behavior first. I was on subs for close to 2 years and a half years. That allowed me replace all addict behaviors/mentality with healthy ones.

2- GO SLOW! I can not say this enough. I would normally drop by 25 percent of my dosage. Sometimes less. This is YOUR taper, you go at your own pace. You didn't become an addict over night and you aren't going to have a successful taper over night. Patience is the key and listening to your body.

3- EXERCISE!!!! If you can't exercise enough to produce a sweat due to health reasons then WALK. Walk at least 20 minutes 3 times a week to start if that's all you can do. Roll your damn wheel chair around the track, grab some light weights. For me, I started running and have completed several marathons. I know everyone can't run a marathon but people YOU HAVE TO MOVE! It's gonna make you feel better I promise. It forces your brain to make the endorphins that your body is lacking! Weather it is yoga, Pilates, running, walking, you have to do something!

4- Not all drops are going to feel the same. I had some drops of 25 percent of my dose and I was fine minimal side effects then some it would take me a month to feel ok. Hence #2. Don't drop your dosage again until you feel like you can handle it and have stabilized. I normally knew I was stable when my sleep returned.

5- UNDER 2 MGS. for me this is where it got tuff. When I dropped under 1mg it got even harder. I myself, tapered down to .125. Stayed there for about a month then started skipping days and then jumped. I had anxiety pretty bad from about day 6 to 10 after my jump but I now know some of the reasons that caused which gets me to # 6.

6- CAFFEINE. OK I'm a huge coffee drinker and part of the reason for my sleeplessness and restless leg syndrome towards the end had a lot to do with my caffeine intake. Once you jump I would either one, ditch it for at least a good week or 2, just have one drink of caffinated beverages in the morning. I became super sensitive to caffeine.

7- SUPPLEMENTS- I think vitamins have been a huge part of my feeling well also. Get some vitamins and take them upon rising in the morning!!!! People can suffer from some sorts of depression from being vitamin deffiecent.

8- SUPPLEMENTS FOR SLEEP. I'm gonna be honest here. I had months of shitty sleep. I lived in melatonin and Valarium root. They helped me tremendously. Valarium root also can help take the edge off things when you are super grouchy or having anxiety. Get some. I didn't turn to BENZOS like lots of people as I was scared I would like them too much.

9- Post here and post often. It helps. I found tremendous support from the members here. Especially NANCY. she's an Angel and honestly I don't know how she keeps up.


10- IT CAN BE DONE! Your brain has a lot to do with how you feel. Lots of times when I would sit around and think things were bad it would make them bad. CHANGE YOUR THINKING. don't let that little piece of orange bullshit kick your ass. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE. Like I said I'm 5 weeks clean and each week gets better and better!!!!
Oxox

Last edited by Runner; 01-13-2015 at 02:09 PM.. Reason: Typos
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Unread 01-13-2015, 02:55 PM   #2
Jojo679
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Your awesome runner! What vitamins/supplements should I get to prepare for jump. I am currently taking one multivitamin , fish oil , and probiotics.plus valerian to help with sleep. If you don't suggest it ,do you have any experience with dlpa supplement? thanks a lot! I have felt more informed and better about jumping reading Eliza's and your experience.
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Unread 01-13-2015, 04:29 PM   #3
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Default Things I learned from my taper...

Runner, ...thanks so much for that post. ive read others in other places an Moving and going slowly is the key in all of them.
Yours just stood out to me today. congrats....max
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Unread 01-13-2015, 05:10 PM   #4
Eliza12
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Hey Nancy,

Can we maybe take Runners's post and make it a Sticky in the tapering section? This is great, concise info that would benefit many. Great job Runner!

Best
Elizabeth
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Unread 01-13-2015, 06:19 PM   #5
NancyB
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Wow, what a great thread Runner! Thanks so much for starting it and I hope people add in what helped them.

Elizabeth - too funny!! ss I started reading Runners first paragraph, the first thing I thought of was to sticky it! Great minds...

Can't wait for more people to post what helped them.

Thanks again Runner. Not only for this thread, but for letting us be on your journey and the hope and help you've given to so many others.

Nancy


Added: It is now stuck!
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Last edited by NancyB; 01-13-2015 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: Making it a sticky
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Unread 01-13-2015, 08:56 PM   #6
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Jojo,
I take a multi plus, b-6, b-12, d, zinc, biotin, fish oil, DHA, l-tyrosine (which made me anxious too when I first jumped), e, magnesium for restless legs(helps a lot for me). I think that might be it....
Have no experience with the dlpa.

Thank you everyone for the kind words.
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Unread 01-14-2015, 03:07 PM   #7
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Default great job

Congrats on the big achievement well done God bless
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Unread 01-14-2015, 05:19 PM   #8
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Awesome! Runner this is great. So many people read and do not post.

I SO agree with the exercise. As a fitness instructor, it is my job. BUT any kind of movement helps. I think the worst thing is sitting in once place for too long. It helps me get out of 'my head' too.

I didn't have the luxury of a long, slow taper this time. I didn't cut down hardly at all and found myself at a place where I jumped from 2-4mg everyday for 2 years - to nothing. I was probably closer to 4mg everyday because I am not very patient nor was I very good at cutting the pills - it was much easier with the films to cut.

I had exactly 2 nights of restless legs, insomnia, and it sucked. Those 2 nights were about 4 days apart, between days 3 and 7 of completely quitting sub. That is all. I guess it's been almost a month now, 3 weeks I guess. I am FINE.

Hyland's restless legs helps. I take a sublingual B-12 everyday. I exercise about 6 days a week and I eat regular meals. I think the fear/anxiety/panic, etc that goes along with sub reduction/taper/jump is real, but it isn't more powerful than the person. It is important that drug seeking behaviors are handled. Sub does not magically cure someone but it is a great tool as part of a program.

Nancy is amazing, isn't she? I've been around here for about 7 years and she has been a HUGE part of my recovery. I am so grateful for her! Jenm
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Unread 05-06-2015, 06:06 PM   #9
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Congratulations. I cant wait for that day to come
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Unread 05-07-2015, 11:43 PM   #10
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Wow! I have been on Suboxone for 8 years!! I am so ready to come off this monster!
In my many years on this med, I have run into so many pill pushers... You have to find a Dr that is willing to work with you and who supports your taper. I am about to start this process now that I have settled into a place and won't be moving anytime soon.
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Unread 05-10-2015, 06:38 PM   #11
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Thanks for all of the great advice, you are a real inspiration. i have missed appointments due to unforeseen work circumstances and missed a week or so of meds at a time. It is a very terrible feeling. I can not wait until all of this is behind me and I am finally sub. free and FEEL OK.
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Unread 06-18-2015, 10:25 PM   #12
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hey guys, thanks for all the info.when i first went on these things never thought it would be so dam hard to get off.kicking herion only took about a week then start feeling better,but you guys know the w/ds.so i don't think i have to explain.they are really intense but you live,probably kicked over 20 times,sometimes cold turkey do to being in jail,which comes with this terrible habit.how many times can you go buy stuff without getting caught,the cops are all around the drug areas but when you are sick you don't give a s--t.well this time i thought i'd try these suboxone(the wonder drug)it truely was in the beginning,kept me off the streets and the drugs for over 2 years.but now that i have been trying to get off it sucks and after reading all these posts,i am very scared.like runner said 2mg no problem,it's when you start to get below that.i've been on 1mg for a few weeks and was wondering why my sleep was getting harder.i suffer from isomnia,and thought the switching of my medication was the reason.i was on benzo's and finally got off them after years of them,so i started taking unisom and melatonin and am getting by,but now i'm tapering down to .5 tomorrow for i guess about 1 month,them down to .25 for a month.i originally thought i would be fine to jump off of 1mg.but after reading all these VERY HELPFUL POSTS,I'M TAPERING TO .5mg THEN TO .25mg.I have no choice i moved to Florida and only have a few SUB Films left.I guess it was time anyway things always happen for a reason.fresh start .don't know anybody,so no old friends running into.i just wish i new about these subs before hand.hope my taper and jump will not be so bad.
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Unread 06-24-2015, 11:27 AM   #13
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6 months plus sub free now, hang tough guys it can be done if you want it bad enough. You will actually feel better with the crap out of your system. I promise. 😄
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Unread 07-28-2015, 10:54 PM   #14
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I found this post super helpful (Thank You Runner!) and now that I've been off suboxone (bupes) for 13-14 days I wanted to add and underline a few things that have been helpful to me:

- KEEPING BUSY (I’m not working full-time right now so this is HUGE for me and still a struggle, but if you're in a similar work situation or non-work situation I should say, it would be REALLY good to plan to go somewhere with lots of support (family, friends, health retreat, enroll in classes) anything that will keep your mind off of the bupes + jump).

- EXERCISE (this can be tough with the energy situation, but work though the lethargy because this will make you feel so much better)

- HYDROTHERAPY!!! (this is HUGE help for me with the aches).
WHAT IT IS: Hot & Cold SHOWERS or if you have access to a Hot Tub & Pool (I think this works even better).
HOW IT WORKS: START in HOT (shower or hot tub) for 5mins, then TURN to COLD (or jump in a pool) for 30-60 seconds (you want at least a 30 degree difference- aim for 58 degrees. It's hard at first, so if you're able to control the temperature you can work your way down to 58 - It might seem intolerable at first but after doing it a couple of times your body adjusts AND you WILL FEEL the BENEFITS!). REPEAT 3 TIMES (after your 1st HOT treatment @ 5mins, move to 3mins on hot for the next two) and END on COLD (this part is very important!)
WHY IT WORKS: When your body is WARM your blood vessels are open, then when you turn to COLD they constrict, DRAWING OUT all of the toxins TOXINS. The process gets your blood circulation going, BOOST your IMMUNE system (its GREAT to do if you have a cold too), speeds up metabolism and other really good things.

- Drinking LOTS of WATER (detox)

- Listening to CLASSICAL MUSIC throughout the day
(helps with the depression + strengthening your frontal lobe that you need for GOOD decision making)

- USING your HANDS: Putting a Puzzle together, Crafting, Cooking, Cleaning
(this is still sometimes tough for me as I'm still struggling with super LOW energy, but I know it helps so I'm trying to work through it)

- EATING HEALTHY (Greens, Grains & Beans!!! flush that stuff out and get your body the nutrients it needs!)

- EARLY to BED, EARLY to RISE
(this was also tough for me as I have always considered myself an evening person HOWEVER one of the toughest parts for me in getting off the Bupes was the gnarly depression and there are mad studies out there on how just making this little change can actually fight depression. Also, with the way melatonin spikes in your body, the hours before midnight REALLY are worth TWICE as much. So if your having a hard time with sleep getting to bed early/hours before midnight can really help how you feel the following day)

-CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) working with your thoughts. This has REALLY helped me working through the aches and lethargy. This type of therapy is meant to work in only 8-12 sessions and is ALL about retraining your irrational automatic thoughts to rational ones. I didn’t think this was going to work, but it really did help me. If you can’t find a CBT therapist near you, go on Amazon and check out the following (easy to read books) “SOS Help for Emotions” by Lynn Clark and “Telling Yourself the Truth” by William Backus

-Vitamins + OTC: l-tyrosine (for energy and focus) my doctor actually has me on a dose of 2-3,000mg 3Xs a day right now, but I’ve heard it makes some people jumpy so start with 500-1,000mg daily and see how you feel first. Melatonin, Valerian root or Benadryl (for sleep). Turmeric and Aleve (for pain) I use "Turmeric Supreme Pain" by Gaia 1-3Xs daily (their "Turmeric Supreme Pain PM" is also a great option for sleep)

I definitely have a longer road ahead, but again I think i've made it past the hardest part (I HOPE!).
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Unread 10-12-2015, 09:13 PM   #15
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This is great advise! I have been having a hard time tapering down. Everything in the post( for the most part) is what I have been doing. keeping busy being the main one! It's such a mental deal!
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Unread 11-14-2015, 11:03 PM   #16
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It's really good to have this information to prepare to taper, everyone situation is different so reading all of this is very helpful.
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Unread 11-17-2015, 12:00 AM   #17
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Thanks for the advice. Im going to give the exercise and cutting out caffeine a shot since Ive been stuck on the same dose for a while now
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Unread 02-03-2016, 06:44 PM   #18
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A big Thank You to Nancy, who told me to check "Runner's" post on tapering. After 6 1/2 years on Sub (now Zubsolv), with the suggestion from the nurse practitioner that I might "want to start cutting down", and my husband's anger that he's having to pay for my office visits out-of-pocket, though insurance pays for my prescription, and now the new police of bi-monthly urine tests ($100.00 each), I am sure this is The Time. I am frightened.....frightened as hell. But reading all the things I can do to help myself to kick this medication (and I thought getting off pain meds was bad!), if I am careful and mindful of what I do, I can be truly clean! Years ago, I did try N/A and was told in no uncertain terms (I shouldn't have opened my big mouth) that I was not welcome b/c I was still "dirty". That hurt..... But this site has been amazingly helpful. And I also realize I should not be expected to be off Zubsolv in one month! Just hope husband realizes this, too. Love to all of you!
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Unread 02-03-2016, 07:15 PM   #19
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Hey Jekmimi,

First, we'll all scared. Everyone of is who's faced the necessity of tapering down, then off, of any pain med, Zubsolv and/or Sub included, has been pretty much terrified about what lay in store for us.

The FEAR, Jekmimi, is always far, far worse that the reality.

Hundreds/thousands of successfully tapered people can attest to this truth. YOU can be the next. As the Nike slogan goes, "Just Do It!" You really will be both proud of yourself and...best of all, you'll not be addicted to/dependent upon ANY kind of drug!

However, your comment about your NA experience is alarming. You state that they you told that you were NOT welcome because you were still "dirty," apparently on Bup.

Jekmimi? Find another NA clubhouse. What they told you was absolute and utter bullshyte! Moreover, it was, without doubt, completely contrary to the most basic NA/AA tenant.

NOBDY is "not welcome because he/she is "dirty." Nobody!!! What a freaking CROCK! I cannot tell you how many men and women I've seen in those rooms who were totally wasted. Myself included!

And unless they were disruptive to the meeting, they were AS WELCOME as any person with 30 years sobriety.

In fact, it is written, for Gawd's sake, that the ONLY requirement for membership in NA/AA is the DESIRE to stop drinking/using.

Holy cripes that pisses me off! Ha!

I mean, if everybody was already "clean" in those meetings, what in hades are those meetings for? What value do they have if no person is struggling?

Bullshyte, Jekmimi, utter bullshyte. That's what that is!

NA/AA can be a lifesaver. Please don't stop looking for a good one. It might, just saying, it might save YOUR life.

best,

sam
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Unread 06-07-2016, 10:41 AM   #20
lahopeful
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Thanks for your insight. I am now trying to taper off myself and unfortunately am not having a very easy time doing it. Its good to know others are successfully doing this everyday and I will continue to strive for the day I am no longer dependant.
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Unread 06-20-2016, 10:30 PM   #21
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Tapering is for sure scary.. I have a close friend that tapered down to nothing in less than a year. He was an addict for over 5 years, so it shows us that it can be done!! Good luck to you and all of us in this process!!
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Unread 07-12-2016, 11:56 AM   #22
Rd08221963
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Smile Thanks for your valuable life changing remarks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I'm on week 5 of jumping off suboxone and I've never found a thread about things that can help the taper process. I'm putting this out there to help anyone trying to get off subs. Please anyone that is off add whatever you like also to help others. This process doesn't have to be painful. I had very few withdrawl symptoms until I got under 2mgs.

Thanks so much for your valuable input. I met with my doctor yesterday and discussed my plan to get off this suboxone. I am nervous but will make it through this I have tried just stopping and made it to day ten but got to where I could not go to work so had to go back to the suboxone, which that was before I did some research and found out as the docile I am now seeing tells me that your brain has to get accustomed to the levels of intake of the suboxone. Same thing I guess if you are trying to quit smoking now I am not saying that quitting smoking is as painful as getting off suboxone. Again thanks for all your encouragement.


1- I didn't get off suboxone over night. For me, I tapered a little over a year. I worked a program(a great sub program with a psychiatrist). I changed every single addictive behavior first. I was on subs for close to 2 years and a half years. That allowed me replace all addict behaviors/mentality with healthy ones.

2- GO SLOW! I can not say this enough. I would normally drop by 25 percent of my dosage. Sometimes less. This is YOUR taper, you go at your own pace. You didn't become an addict over night and you aren't going to have a successful taper over night. Patience is the key and listening to your body.

3- EXERCISE!!!! If you can't exercise enough to produce a sweat due to health reasons then WALK. Walk at least 20 minutes 3 times a week to start if that's all you can do. Roll your damn wheel chair around the track, grab some light weights. For me, I started running and have completed several marathons. I know everyone can't run a marathon but people YOU HAVE TO MOVE! It's gonna make you feel better I promise. It forces your brain to make the endorphins that your body is lacking! Weather it is yoga, Pilates, running, walking, you have to do something!

4- Not all drops are going to feel the same. I had some drops of 25 percent of my dose and I was fine minimal side effects then some it would take me a month to feel ok. Hence #2. Don't drop your dosage again until you feel like you can handle it and have stabilized. I normally knew I was stable when my sleep returned.

5- UNDER 2 MGS. for me this is where it got tuff. When I dropped under 1mg it got even harder. I myself, tapered down to .125. Stayed there for about a month then started skipping days and then jumped. I had anxiety pretty bad from about day 6 to 10 after my jump but I now know some of the reasons that caused which gets me to # 6.

6- CAFFEINE. OK I'm a huge coffee drinker and part of the reason for my sleeplessness and restless leg syndrome towards the end had a lot to do with my caffeine intake. Once you jump I would either one, ditch it for at least a good week or 2, just have one drink of caffinated beverages in the morning. I became super sensitive to caffeine.

7- SUPPLEMENTS- I think vitamins have been a huge part of my feeling well also. Get some vitamins and take them upon rising in the morning!!!! People can suffer from some sorts of depression from being vitamin deffiecent.

8- SUPPLEMENTS FOR SLEEP. I'm gonna be honest here. I had months of shitty sleep. I lived in melatonin and Valarium root. They helped me tremendously. Valarium root also can help take the edge off things when you are super grouchy or having anxiety. Get some. I didn't turn to BENZOS like lots of people as I was scared I would like them too much.

9- Post here and post often. It helps. I found tremendous support from the members here. Especially NANCY. she's an Angel and honestly I don't know how she keeps up.


10- IT CAN BE DONE! Your brain has a lot to do with how you feel. Lots of times when I would sit around and think things were bad it would make them bad. CHANGE YOUR THINKING. don't let that little piece of orange bullshit kick your ass. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE. Like I said I'm 5 weeks clean and each week gets better and better!!!!
Oxox
Thanks so much for your valuable input. I met with my doctor yesterday and discussed my plan to get off this suboxone. I am nervous but will make it through this I have tried just stopping and made it to day ten but got to where I could not go to work so had to go back to the suboxone, which that was before I did some research and found out as the docile I am now seeing tells me that your brain has to get accustomed to the levels of intake of the suboxone. Same thing I guess if you are trying to quit smoking now I am not saying that quitting smoking is as painful as getting off suboxone. Again thanks for all your encouragement.
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Unread 07-28-2016, 11:02 PM   #23
Soccermom
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I am trying to do this too please keep us updated on your progress......
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Unread 08-11-2016, 08:48 PM   #24
freetobe
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so there is life be on subs! your right Nancy you have to want to do it...like some have said you need to exercise i can't seem to do it i sweat profusely and it actually hurts when i do! has anyone experienced this? please post a comment to me if so i was thinking yoga may be a start because i do have alot of body aches all over the place
i think you Nancy for your suggestions on getting around the site i need to get on here and talk more that will be the only way for me to taper when im ready its just not today!
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Unread 08-12-2016, 06:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freetobe View Post
so there is life be on subs! your right Nancy you have to want to do it...like some have said you need to exercise i can't seem to do it i sweat profusely and it actually hurts when i do! has anyone experienced this? please post a comment to me if so i was thinking yoga may be a start because i do have alot of body aches all over the place
i think you Nancy for your suggestions on getting around the site i need to get on here and talk more that will be the only way for me to taper when im ready its just not today!
Hi freetobe, what dose are you taking and for how long have you been at that dose? For some sweating is dose-related and for others, not so much. As for the pain, have you had a check-up? Sometimes when people go from full agonists to bupe, it uncovers pain that was masked by the full agonists. Maybe starting with yoga or just walking would be beneficial - a way to ease yourself back into exercising? Just a couple of thoughts that came to mind.

Nancy
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