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Unread 05-27-2014, 02:01 PM   #251
nan
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Michael, Thinking of you and hoping you are ok. Why not let us in-talk to us.

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Unread 05-27-2014, 04:39 PM   #252
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Michael, We don't just care about you when you are sober. We care about you no matter what state you are in. Isolation does not help.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 01:27 AM   #253
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Hello all. I'm calling a methadone clinic tomorrow to see about treatment options.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 07:12 AM   #254
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Hi Michael, please think twice before going a methadone clinic. Could you please elaborate on how much tramdol you are taking and when? Like are you taking 1 or 2 every four hours - if you're still taking 5 to 7 day?

You will likely have to see a counselor at a methadone clinic. And when you're done, you will have to taper off of methadone. It doesn't necessarily stop cravings and if you succumb to cravings, taking tramadol or even drinking on top of methadone would be a very serious situation.

There's also Suboxone - which, at the right dose, will stop cravings and withdrawals, taking tramadol on top of it will do nothing because of the antagonist properties. BUT like with methadone, you will still need to go to therapy/counseling and you will have to taper off of that also.

Since you'll need to go to therapy with either anyways, please think about going to a therapist or drug and alcohol counselor who might be able to help you taper off of the tramadol without going the medication route. If you don't address the reasons for escaping with tramadol, no medication in the world will help. Addiction is the uncontrollable, compulsive behavior despite negative consequences. It is that behavior that needs to change and just taking a medication won't change that.

Just please do your research before making such an important decision.

Please let us know what's going on when you can.

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Unread 05-28-2014, 11:54 AM   #255
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I called this morning and it will be too expensive anyway. It cost $20 to see the doctor and $10 per treatment starting at 6 treatments a week. I'm moving in with my new roomates Saturday who are very close friends. I'm going to tell them about what's going on and have them help me taper off.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 08:28 PM   #256
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Hi Michael, that is so good to hear that you're moving out of the toxic environment you're currently in into one with friends who you can talk with, confide in, and get help from. I think that just being out of your current living arrangement is going to breathe new life and hope into you.

Keep us posted, ok?

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Unread 05-28-2014, 09:01 PM   #257
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Hi Michael,

You don't know me. And while we've never exchanged posts, I've been an avid observer of your struggles for a long, long time. Like so many other members of AS, I've come to admire you. More than that, I've come to like you, though that likely sounds odd---SO Social Media and all. Ha!

I've also seen you fall into several dark places. You're in the shadows now, Michael---though, based on your last post, you're trying to find the light...once again.

Good for you.

Michael? I post regularly on the AS Opiate/Subutex/Suboxone Forum. Reason, I've been addicted to drugs, primarily opiates, for 20+ years. That active addiction was almost the end of me, and it (also) very nearly destroyed my family.

Thank God, I finally extricated my dumb-butt self from that darkness of active addiction. Yep, it took a while, yet it took. Finally.

It worked, with the aid of Subutex and a Program of Recovery...including Support Groups (for me AA/NA works best), personal therapy, exercise and, as important as anything else, my decision to be happy.

Anyway. Enough of that.

The reason I am posting to you today is two-fold.

#1: Michael, do not give up. Never. Not ever. You are a good and decent person. I know this because I see it, in your posts, in your kindness to other people. Time now, Michael, to be kind to...Michael.

#2: Stay away from Methadone. You do not need that medication. Few folks do. Yes, of course, you do have an addiction to Tramadol. I believe this---and yeah, it sucks! But Methadone for a Tramadol addiction/dependence is way, way, way-the-hades overkill.

Moreover Michael, I have firsthand experience with Methadone Maintenance. 4.5 years of it. Terrible years, Michael. No, not at first. At first, I thought it was my miracle.

Soon though, it became a curse. Every morning, at 4:30am, I was on the Freeway (#405, LA) driving to my clinic to dose. If I'm late, no dose. If I'm ill, gotta go---or no dose. Goodness forbid a Freeway Closure...or worse, a natural disaster. Thinking about going away for the weekend...or how about that sweet Hawaiian Vacation? Nope, not unless you've earned several take homes.

Oh Michael, the list goes on.

Worst of all, Methadone has side effects, lots of side effect---and really crummy ones.

Ok, Ok---enough of this. Have I made my point? Ha! Sorry.

Now, in fairness, I should say this: For SOME folks, Methadone IS a Medical Savior. But IMO, not for you, Michael. Certainly not yet; hopefully not ever.

Nancy's suggestion re: Subutex is far, far better.

However, based on your daily dosage, your best bet (IMO) is to taper off. No Maintenance required.

Most of all, Michael, learn why you're using...then deal with that.

There is light beyond the shadows, light past the darkness. All you have to do, friend, is find your way to it.

I am certain you know the way.

best,

sam b
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Unread 05-28-2014, 10:32 PM   #258
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sam b. Thanks for extending the hand to Michael.
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Unread 05-29-2014, 02:46 PM   #259
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Sam,

Thank you for reaching out to Michael. He is indeed, a special person.

Regards,
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Unread 05-30-2014, 02:27 PM   #260
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Thanks everyone, you all made my day. Love you guys!
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Unread 05-31-2014, 05:26 PM   #261
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Hope your move is going smoothly Michael!

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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #262
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Hi Michael, did you get a chance to talk with your new roommates about helping you taper?

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Unread 06-04-2014, 02:30 PM   #263
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Hello Michael,

You haven't posted in a while, which is itself a red-flag suggesting both trouble and chaos, outside and in. It also, to me, anyway, indicates that you have a heart full of aches...and an assortment of other sadness.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Hope so, I do, I do.

For what it's worth, Michael, I'd like to share one of my personal experiences with you. Perhaps it'll mean something to you; perhaps you'll see yourself in my story. Or maybe you won't.

No matter. Truth is, it is a tale that rings true for many of us---so it's worth telling...I believe.

I shared here a few days ago that I was a drug addict (opiates, primarily) for 20-25+ years. In the beginning of my little adventure, all was well. I mean, life didn't just "seem" good, it was good. My family was strong and loving. My job was terrific, a career, in fact, of prestige---including the "best" of my industry's Awards and Honors. Name and pic in the paper, my work broadcast in PrimeTime, plenty of dough. The whole dealio.

Not bad for this red-neck Okie boy from Bakersfield.

Yet, even as I was doing so well in my career, I was taking LOTS of Opiates, Percs, Vics, Lorcet, Oxy, et al. Bad idea, right? No, it wasn't, so it seemed to me.

I mean, come on, I was taking, at that time, 30-40 pills a day---and STILL my career was going great! My family loved me, and I them; I had good friends, good neighbors. Life, dammit, was just plain good.

So how in hades could anything be wrong with that? Seemed to me, well, lemme just say it: seemed that God had blessed me. Seemed, to me, that God was likely OK with me taking drugs.

And if THAT was true, and it all appeared to be true, why would I stop taking those pills. Truth is, I liked them. They made me feel good...and confident. They took away all those inferior feelings I'd been repressing my entire life, that self-loathing I felt for being poor, for living in Government Housing Projects, for being raised by alcoholic farm laborers.

See, Opiates worked for me. When I swallowed those Opies, I was no longer weak, little and afraid. I was strong, confident and oh so damn charming.

Does any of this speak to you, Michael? Have you ever felt self-hate, for any reason? Have you ever self-medicated in order to feel better, even if just a little bit?

Opiates work for that, don't they? Yes, they do.

Until they don't. Until they stop working, which they will always do. Until then, they make everything okay.

But Michael, it was all a LIE. And me? I believed the lie. I was a DELUDED man. I was caught up in this incredible DELUSION that this false goodness, this false human decency, this façade of success and importance and prestige would last forever. I actually thought that God must be okay with me taking all those pills, cause, look---I had all these blessings.

Crazy, man.

Even today, after being OUT of Active Addiction for some years now, I am astonished, literally astonished, at how DELUDED I was.

The truth is, I was so deluded that I did not see, I could not see, how my life was actually degrading. Slowly but surely, my life was falling apart. But I couldn't effing see it! Cripes! How was that possible? How could I not see the problems mounting, the projects suffering, the people, my colleagues, whispering? Yet it was true. My life was crumbling but I could not see it, so damn LOST I was.

My work suffered, people knew something was wrong with me--but me? I could see nothing. My family was breaking down, the people I loved more than my life were in terrible pain, yet I couldn't see how severe their suffering was.

I was lost in the DELUSION that my life was okay...or, even if it was, uh, fraying some, I was blinded by my delusion that it wasn't that bad.

Ok, sorry. Enough about me. Plus, I'm beginning to re-re-repeat my bad-self. Damned once-dope-addled brain! Uh, "once?" Ha!

Anyway.

So, my (oh-so-damn-longwinded) point: I fear for you, Michael, that if you do not separate your good-self from Tramadol or, even worse, if you have "graduated" to an actual, super potent narcotic and you don't stop taking them, SOON!, you too will lose yourself. You too will lose yourself inside a Delusion, wretched, terrible and, ultimately, completely ruinous to the good life you want for yourself.

**Oh, and sorry. Lots of apologies for my pulpit pounding.

best,

sam b
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Unread 06-04-2014, 05:49 PM   #264
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Sam, No pulpit pounding just the truth. Thanks for trying to help Michael.
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Unread 06-06-2014, 12:10 AM   #265
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Thanks for sharing your story Sam, I can definitely relate. I talked to my roomate tonight and she is going to help me taper off. I'm going to buy a small amount of tramadol tomorrow, just enough for tapering. Handing over that pill bottle will be extremely difficult... Not because I don't trust my roomate, but because I am giving her the thing I have been living for, for the last 3 months of my life. I feel that without that bottle of pills in my possession, I am nothing, I am powerless, I am lost. But nonetheless its what must be done for me to get my life back. Blessings.
Michael
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Unread 06-06-2014, 04:23 AM   #266
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Hey Michael,

Good. Good job, friend.

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Unread 06-06-2014, 06:57 AM   #267
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Hi Michael, I'm proud of you for doing that! I think that's a very powerful thing to do - asking for help. You will beat this, and then I think you'll realize that the pill that is giving you a false sense of of security and is ruining too many things in your life.

Please keep us posted. Vent, scream, whatever you need to do.

We're here for you.

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Unread 06-06-2014, 12:00 PM   #268
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Michael, You can beat this. Think through that 1st action when you might want to get more than what you need to taper off this drug.
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Unread 06-06-2014, 01:33 PM   #269
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Michael,
You've taken a big step to sobriety. Stay focused. Reach out for support when you need it.

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Unread 06-07-2014, 11:15 AM   #270
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Michael, Wondering how you are today? You took a big step in the right direction. Try not to think about what you "lost", think about all you are gaining by doing the taper. Don't let the urges convince you otherwise, stay strong, you can do this!

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Unread 06-07-2014, 12:44 PM   #271
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Thanks everyone. Today is day one tapering off. I decided to wait as long as I could to take any just to see how I felt. I made it about 4 hours from waking up to really need it. the withdrawals ate not near as bad as they were from alcohol, bit they are painful, and very different. From now on I will have a regular schedule for taking them until I am completely done.
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Unread 06-07-2014, 01:35 PM   #272
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Michael stay strong.
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Unread 06-07-2014, 05:06 PM   #273
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You got this Michael!!
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Unread 06-07-2014, 09:25 PM   #274
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Hi Michael, congrats on day 1!

Let us know how you're feeling - there are different things you can take that might help opiate withdrawals that you can get at the pharmacy or the vitamin section at Walmart or another store. One big thing is to drink enough water and try to eat. If you don't feel like eating, get some Ensure or other vitamin supplement / protein drink. That will help give you sustenance. If you can exercise, that would be really good. The exercise will help get your natural endorphins going - natural endorphin production may slow down when external opiates are introduced.

Ditto R. Lee's and Saint's posts.

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Unread 06-08-2014, 06:52 PM   #275
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Ugh. I'm really trying to do this right but my roomate doesn't realize how important this is. I try to get her to give me my pills for the day and she tells me to wait or she will grab them later. I haven't had any today and I am freaking out!
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Unread 06-08-2014, 08:15 PM   #276
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Michael, What time were you using on your scheduled plan. Stick to your plan. I hope you are OK. If you have too get to a hospital.
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Unread 06-08-2014, 10:50 PM   #277
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I finally got them. Everyday is different because of my crazy work schedule.
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Unread 06-09-2014, 01:22 AM   #278
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Michael, If you trust her to dispense the drug to you then go by her direction. You want it because you are craving it. She is these to see that you do not abuse it. Stick to your plan.
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Unread 06-09-2014, 11:55 AM   #279
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Hang in there Michael. It's hard in the beginning but work through this. Keep your eye on the prize. Your friend is there to help get you through this. Let us know how you're doing. Thinking of you Michael.

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Unread 06-10-2014, 07:54 AM   #280
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Hi Michael, just checking to see how it's going. If you have cravings, what some people have done is distract themselves - they say 'let's see how I feel in an hour' and go back to what they were doing or find something to do. Just remember that the mind is a powerful thing and if you can try and use that to your advantage by distracting negative thoughts, that might help get through some of the cravings.

Let us know how you're doing when you can.

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Unread 06-11-2014, 11:43 PM   #281
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Thinking of you Michael. Let us know how the taper is going. Not sure what the cravings / withdrawals are like from Tramadol but I know how strong some of my cravings for alcohol were early on. Hang in there buddy. Sobriety is worth it.

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Unread 06-13-2014, 09:02 AM   #282
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You can do this, Michael. I am praying for you!! Jenm
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Unread 06-13-2014, 12:16 PM   #283
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Thanks everyone. The taper is going well. I can tell that my tolerance is going down, which is a good sign. One pill makes me feel like what it used to take 3 to feel like. My tolerance dropping let's me know my dependence is also dropping. Going to take 2 today, 1 the next 2 days, then a half the two days after that then I'm done. I'm scared, but at least I'm feeling again. Blessings. Michael
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Unread 06-13-2014, 03:13 PM   #284
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michael Good luck & follow through.
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Unread 06-13-2014, 06:23 PM   #285
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Michael,
That's great news. As Lee mentioned stick to your plan. One day at a time. Think through those cravings, t h one urges. We need to be free of substances to work on the reasons why we 'use'.

Hang in there!

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Unread 06-13-2014, 06:54 PM   #286
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Hi Michael, good job with your taper. Yes, you're feeling again, which is a wonderful thing. And, yes, at times it can be scary, but as Saint said, "We need to be free of substances to work on the reasons why we 'use'."

Keep up the good work!!

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Unread 06-14-2014, 12:17 PM   #287
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Michael,

I'm happy for you.

Love, Susie
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Unread 06-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #288
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Hey everyone. Not feeling so great today, feeling extremely lethargic, like I'm carrying around a backpack full of bricks. Already took my tramadol, just trying to make it through the day
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Unread 06-14-2014, 06:35 PM   #289
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Michael, Stay strong, stay positive. You do not want to go back where you have been.
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Unread 06-14-2014, 08:24 PM   #290
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Hi Michael, as hard as it may sound, try to exercise, it's helped others tapering off of opiates. It doesn't have to be a full workout, maybe try to go for a walk around the block even. That will help get your natural endorphins going. Vitamin B12 may help too.

Ditto what R. Lee said also!

Nancy
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Unread 06-14-2014, 08:45 PM   #291
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You're almost through this Michael.I like Nancy ' s idea. Go for a walk. Get yourself moving. It will help even though it feels like the last thing you want to do. Keep your eye on the prize.
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Unread 06-16-2014, 02:13 AM   #292
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Hey everyone. I have been feeling really bad the last couple of days. Stuffy nose, sore throat, etc. I was really hoping it was just a head cold, but dayquil does almost nothing to take the symptoms away. But when I took my tramadol today, the symptoms vanished. Ya know, I always pictured someone who was dopesick as this crackhead, out on the streets somewhere. I never thought in a million years that that would be me. But here I am. I'm sick, and I'm sick because I am not taking enough tramadol. Please don't remind me that this is my own fault, I'm already well aware of that and have beat myself up enough. I'm just so ready to move on and get past this.
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Unread 06-16-2014, 02:15 AM   #293
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P.S. I did workout today, and it did temporarily relieve my symptoms for about 2 hours. I'll be doing that again tomorrow.
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Unread 06-16-2014, 07:29 AM   #294
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Hi Michael, good for you for working out! Keep that going. Just, curious, how soon after you took the tramadol did the symptoms go away? Another thing people have done while tapering is take just enough to take the edge off of the withdrawals. So instead of taking a whole pill, you could try taking a half instead and see if that takes enough of the WDs away. Just another form of tapering.

Please stop beating yourself up! Addiction is a disease - period. You slipped and now you're working hard to get better. You can't change what happened, but you can work towards giving yourself as many tools as possible to help it not happen again. You're doing great Michael. And you're doing this for you!

Nancy
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Unread 06-16-2014, 09:45 AM   #295
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Michael, You have worked to ger sober before you can do it again.
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Unread 06-16-2014, 03:06 PM   #296
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Thanks R.Lee. Nancy, it takes about 10-15 mins for the tramadol to take effect and the symptoms to go away. I am taking a half today and a half tomorrow, then I am done.
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Unread 06-16-2014, 06:12 PM   #297
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Michael,
Glad the exercising helped even if only for a short time. Michael I certainly don't think anyone here is going to beat you up over this. We've all been where you are. Certainly I have and for a lot longer I might add : ) I think the important thing is to keep moving forward. Learn why you may have relapsed, what triggered it and how you will address issues moving forward while maintaining sobriety. Keep posting, keep venting and soon this chapter will be closed.

Michael I have an addictive nature and am now well aware of it. It is a part of who I am but it is not all of who I am. I can live a much more fulfilling life sober than I can while active in my addiction. I will never be cured but you know what? I'm OK with that!

I hope you feel better soon. We love you Michael.

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Unread 06-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #298
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Michael, You are getting close to becoming clean. Grab on to sobriety cherish it. Work at it every day. You can break this down to a moment or a day at a time. Think through that next urge to drink or drug.

We are never cured & addiction can raise it's ugly head when thing are going great or the worst times of our lives. Be prepare!!
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Unread 06-18-2014, 07:24 AM   #299
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Hi Michael, how's it going? Today is your last day, no? Keep us posted and lean on us if it gets hard. You are worth it.

Nancy
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Unread 06-19-2014, 12:13 PM   #300
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Michael,

I do hope you are feeling better Michael. Whatever discomfort you may be feeling now will be worth it once you are sober and healthy. Hang in there and know we are thinking of you and are here for you.

Think through that urge Michael.

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