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Unread 10-13-2009, 04:47 AM   #1
zelda
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Default craving sugar and starch

This tread should maybe be at the side effect page,but I have been craving cakes, doughnuts and everything sugary. Anyone else have this problem? Do you think it has something to do with suboxone/subutex or is it an addiction thing?Luckily I have a fast metabolism, but i dont know for how long its gonna last.Thanks for any info!
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Unread 10-13-2009, 07:56 AM   #2
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hi zelda,
i think it just depends on the person.
i know while i was in active addiction,i didn't eat mush of anything and if i did it was before going to bed.
i always kept from eating for fear it would ruin my buzz,and another thing is opiates can make the digestive system slow down,that would explain the constipation too.
now that your body is getting back in running order,you will notice how much more you will pay attention to what you are eating.
since i have been on suboxone(almost 4 mos),i know i have put on atleast 5 lbs,but i kinda needed some weight to put back on.
now i just have to be really careful or i will get big fast.
either it will be a lasting side effect for you,or with time it will slow down.
the main thing is you are doing great and you deserve a treat,now it's going to have to be in moderation(that's the hard part).
good luck,
denise
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Unread 10-13-2009, 09:57 AM   #3
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zelda, no, thank God I don't crave sugary things! BUT, LIKE, NEISY, WHEN i WAS IN active addiction, I did not eat much for fear of losing my buzz. But when i finally would eat, BOY did i EAT! I have gained 50+ lbs in the last year, but I think some of that is due to the fact I started the depo provera birth control shot last year. I do have a big appetite now, though, which sucks because I'm on a diet!
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Unread 10-13-2009, 11:37 AM   #4
zelda
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I didn't know eating killed the buzz. I just didn't have an appetite. How come it kills the buzz?
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Unread 10-13-2009, 12:05 PM   #5
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Zelda,
Within 2 weeks of starting suboxone, I started craving sugar like never before! I was a black coffee drinker for 20 years and suddenly needed sugary creams or vanilla lahti's at starbucks. I was eating a bag of candy a night. I am 5 feet tall and gained 20lbs within 6 months. (I bet the diet thread has a warrant with my name on it)

I figured it was a small price to pay considering the alternative. Now I am planning to go to Belize in February and at least want to be able to wear shorts, so I have been on a bit of a diet for about 6 weeks. I also use "Alli". I eat some kind of energy bar during the day and what ever I want for dinner, just in moderation. For snacks I eat alot of carmel rice cakes and that seems to fill the sugar need. I have lost about 12 lbs so far. I have never been a sugar sweets eater until suboxone, I just wanted to get more of a handle on my addiction before I started any type of diet so I waited 8 months before I did anything about it. I have also asked the sugar question here before and found others who experienced the same thing.
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Unread 10-13-2009, 12:05 PM   #6
deanna
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Hi zelda, welcome to the board. I have heard alot of people say they crave sugar after they start suboxone, and I did too, but really I think its just a matter of someone appreciating food a little more. Things taste better, and when not in active addiction, food is definately more important. Just try to have an apple or some strawberries (which are both sweet tasting) instead of the high calorie treats and maybe that will help til those sugar cravings subside. good luck, Deanna
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Unread 10-13-2009, 01:29 PM   #7
gotoffmdone
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I used to never eat sweets. When I took hydros and oxys for ten years I never craved sweetds. I started craving them with Methadone and it has continued while on Sub.

I don't understand it but, whatever the reason, it has something to do with the meds.

wayne
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Unread 10-13-2009, 05:01 PM   #8
janie
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Me too! I have my 'secret' candy/junk stashes hidden in my apartment. I do buy special treats for my son and fiance when I do the grocery shopping, but my 'secret stash' is just MINE!! And since I've been on Sub I seem to have to replenish it quite often, LOL! Thanks....now I gotta go locate a Hershey bar!
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Unread 10-13-2009, 05:35 PM   #9
OhioMike
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The sugar deal or sweets in general is not a result of suboxone, but, recovery.

I wish I could offer some scientific reasoning for it, as I'm sure there is one, however, however, it has been this way for as long as I can remember (1983) when I first found AA and NA. If you notice, they always have sweets available! lol

Back then I hit them pretty hard, but, after a while that changed and I got back on a regular deal, it has been that way now too while being on Sub.

Mike
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Unread 10-14-2009, 03:38 AM   #10
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Oh Gosh, The Sugar. When I was in active addiction, the last year I gained some weight and stopped eating real healthy, but I still didn't crave sugar.

Once I went on Sub I developed intense sugar cravings. I would go to 7:11 and have to get 1 or more of everything. Something from the chocolate family, the powdered candy family, hard candy, dognut family, gummy bear family, the cookie family, the ice cream family, etc. You can imagine, it wasn't pretty. I also got really into pancakes covered in syrup!

I don't know the cause, if it's directly the suboxone, but it faded away once my dose was very low.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 04:01 AM   #11
zelda
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Janie, we are so alike in that department. LOL! I also have my own hidden 'stash'! Don't like to share it with anyone. I can tell you guys, I get cravings, usually i don't know if it is for sweets or the sub. Then i rather eat sweets to prevent me from taking extra subs.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:55 AM   #12
MicheleJ
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I am the same way. I have hidden stashes of candy both at work and at home! Sometimes I will literally have to ask my son, or one of my co-workers to hide my candy from me! I am serious.
This is all since Sub. I have maintained my weight for YEARS, and now, since staring Sub four and a half months ago, I have gained about five pounds. And I am short, so I really notice it.
I just crave donuts, cookies, and CANDY!! But, like I just said in the other post about this, I would rather deal with this than the alternative.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 10:16 AM   #13
gotoffmdone
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Mike
It may be recovery related, but not in my case. And that is all I can speak too.

The thing is, in all the times I went to rehabs and stayed clean for a couple of months, afterward, I never craved sweets.

Also, the three months I went without Sub, I lost my sweet tooth.

It wasn't untill I started taking the fully synthetic, long acting opioids(Sub and Methadone fall under that category) that I started craving Cookies and Cream Ice Cream.

wayne
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Unread 10-14-2009, 01:55 PM   #14
OhioMike
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I have never read any scientific conclusions which relate any substance in Suboxone, to triggering the need for more sweets.

However, I have read the scientific conclusions which explain the reason for it being directly related to the disease of addiction and the recovery process. However, that was long ago and I could not even begin to guess, to try and give a reasonable explanation of the conclusion I read. Maybe someone will know of a link which could do that for me.

So, I don't doubt what anyone is saying, because both times I entered recovery, now and in 83 I craved more sweets. However, I know the above to be true or at least true to the point of any scientific conclusions I have seen shared.

Further, I apply simple personal conclusions to things and in this case that process tells me, since it happens to many in recovery nationwide, most of whom are not on Suboxone and for many years prior to Suboxone, then chances are it is addiction and recovery related, more so than anything else. Finally, that was my personal experience as well.

Nevertheless, we each have to come to our own conclusions.

Mike
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Unread 10-14-2009, 02:12 PM   #15
OhioMike
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Maybe this article can help some with overall diets and it does touch on the recovery / sugar connection, but, briefly.

http://www.spiritualriver.com/how-to...nd-alcoholism/
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Unread 10-14-2009, 02:44 PM   #16
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The following are not complete scientific conclusions or scientific conclusions at all, so I am not providing links, as I do not consider them to be solid proof, however, I found they make sense and thought I would share them, in hopes of helping.


Answer heroin and sugar

The Man With the Golden Arm. Frank Sinatra and Kim Novak.

Most addicts are found to be hypoglycemic. This condition may have existed before they started taking drugs.

Basically all drugs addicts, whatever chemical they are using, are after serotonin, a chemical that the body produces from food sources and that makes them feel happy and content.

Addicts have a problem producing serotonin, and when they withdraw from drugs they get depressed, anxious, irritable and will return to drugs.

Alcoholics sometimes experience intense cravings for Chocolate, I guess its related.
******************************************
Heroin

In a few reported cases, heroin overdose in human beings was accompanied by severe rhabdomyolysis, destruction of skeletal muscle accompanied by myoglobinemia, which can lead to acute kidney failure. The condition resulted in severe hyperkalemia, probably caused by a rapid efflux of potassium from damaged muscle cells. The associated acute renal failure may exacerbate the hyperkalemia. [Pearce, C.Y., And Cox, J.C.: Heroin & Hyperkalemia, Lancet 2:923, 1980.]
Heroin addicts have shown flat glucose tolerance curves, with an exaggerated and delayed insulin response following oral glucose loading. Heroin addicts have a markedly reduced acute insulin response to glucose administered intravenously and have low potassium values. It is clear that heroin alters glucose tolerance and subsequent metabolism, and the severe adverse effects of the drug on skeletal muscle, kidney function, and glucose metabolism are of concern for human users.
The effects of morphine on lipid profiles could have important implications. Its ability to raise levels of insulin and to induce hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia could have important consequences, especially for persons with diabetes. Because coronary heart disease is a leading cause of incapacitating illness and death, the hypercholesterolemic effect of morphine, threefold increase in the atherogenic index and high aortic cholesterol deposition, is of critical interest. Its antagonistic interaction with calcium and vitamin D is also of interest.

************************************************** ***************
Even though a sugar craving is not a true addiction, researchers at the U. S. Department of Energy's Brookhaven National Laboratory have found similarities in the brains of cocaine addicts and morbidly obese people. In earlier studies Brookhaven scientists found that drug addicts have fewer dopamine receptors than normal people. (Dopamine is a brain chemical associated with pleasurable sensations.)
In a study published in The Lancet in February 2001, Dr. Gene-Jack Wang, a physician, and Dr. Nora Volkow, a psychiatrist, found that ten obese people had far fewer dopamine receptors in their brains than ten slim control subjects. Wang and Volkow found that the heavier the subject, the lower the number of dopamine receptors. Wang said they still aren't sure whether having a low number of dopamine receptors is a cause or a result of overeating.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:10 PM   #17
gotoffmdone
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"Further, I apply simple personal conclusions to things....."

Precisely.

Wayne

I thought it may have something to do with cravings for chocolate, since it is said to trigger endorphine production. But that does not explain my desire to eat a whole Cheese cake by myself. I used to really dislike that kind of stuff. Now I scrape a little of the cake off the top, then blend the rest in with the crust, and eat it like pudding.

Cause and effect(statistical jargon) is hard to prove. I realize this whole craving sweets stuff probably has nothing to do with Sub or Methadone but nothing surprises me anymore.

Last edited by gotoffmdone; 10-14-2009 at 07:24 PM..
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Unread 09-26-2014, 12:10 AM   #18
julie48
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All I can say is I have gained weight since starting subs 4yrs. ago. I was a size 3. Lets just say I am not even close to a size 3 anymore. I don't know if it is the subs or not caring and eating what I want instead of healthy like I did at a size 3. Hmmmm....I crave that chocolate often!! Julie
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Unread 10-04-2014, 05:20 AM   #19
reti4455
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I noticed I eat a lot of chocolate while on subs. I,ve gained some weight but nothing drastic. I buy the family size 3musketeers minis or whatever there called. Only when I was on the highest amounts of Oxy did I get same craving for chocolate. Go fiquire.
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Unread 10-14-2016, 10:52 AM   #20
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Hello everyone! Ive been looking everywhere for explanations of why I cant kick this sugar craving problem... So obviously I was super excited to find this post!!! That being said, all of my research has brought me to this one DEFINITIVE conclusion.. The sugar cravings are DEFINITELY a side effect of taking subutex. My entire life I have been tiny. I am 33 yrs old, 5' 8" tall, I've had 3 kids, and until I started subutex, I wore a size 0... Now, I love to work out and eat healthy but no matter what I do, I can't stop eating sweets at night. I am now in size 14/16 and I hate the way I feel about myself.

Now, I agree that for the first 6 months to a year after a person gets off of their opiate of choice, while the body is still trying to heal and resume the 'normal' production of chemicals and hormones, our bodies do crave sugar/ chocolate. This is because our body has noticed the absence of the feel good chemicals / hormones (dopamine, serotonin, etc) and one way to stimulate the production of those is to eat sugar and chocolate. (Dark chocolate is best if you can stand it. Supposedly, if you nibble on some REAL dark chocolate, you can recreate the effect of opiates on the body without eating more of the overprocessed foods. I dont like the stuff, but you should try it... )

HOWEVER, subutex carries this as a side effect as well. I've been tapering down slowly for 4 years now and I still wake up in the middle of the night, shaking, and do not feel that I can go back to sleep until I've eaten something sugary. As soon as I indulge, I'm back to sleep. I have woken up (mortified) to find that I was sleep - munching and I'll have melted chocolate or jellybeans all over the place... in my hair, all over my face, in my nails, in my bra, in the sheets, IN MY NOSE, staining my clothes, etc... I can follow a strict diet all day long and never feel that a 'craving' is overwhelming. But once I've gone to sleep, no matter what I try, I will eventually wake up with an impossible-to-ignore sugar craving. Some of you may ask, what if you get rid of all the junk in your house? Won't you just go back to sleep at some point? Answer: No, I always find something. I've gotten a bowl of powdered sugar that I found in the farthest reaches of the pantry (it had probably been in there for 5 or 6 years untouched), and I ate it with a spoon. (Now THAT was a sticky mess to clean up...) Ive eaten Nestle Quik, regular sugar, poured sprinkles in my mouth, some nasty freezer burnt ice cream i found in the bottom of the deepfreeze that you couldn't have paid me to touch during the day, etc... And I did not go back to sleep until I had satisfied my sweet tooth. However, as soon as I do succumb to the temptation, I can feel my eyes get heavy and my whole body gets relaxed. It's similar to the way a diabetic describes feeling when his/her blood sugar is high. Almost as though I'm on drugs again.

How do I know that the subutex is causing this? Could it just be that my system is still trying to get back in order (4 years later)? Or maybe that I'm just (subconsciously) seeking that high feeling? Answer: I've considered that, but in the past, when I have quit opiates cold turkey (yes, for years of sobriety), I have NEVER experienced this level of intensity for craving sugar. I did crave some junk for a few months after quitting and I did gain 5 to 10 lbs that I dropped within the remainder of the year, but nothing like this.

Well then, why doesn't everyone who takes Subutex experience this phenomenon? Answer: because just like with ANY drug, a side effect is only a possibility. Not everyone will experience the same side effects when taking the same medication. Some people dont experience ANY side effects. I'm a nurse and I've seen patients experience some adverse reactions to drugs that weren't even listed on the known drug information sheets because no-one else had ever officially come forward with the same reaction.

I think its the same general idea behind how we, as addicts, can develop an immediate addiction for some drugs but not others; the same way any two people can try the exact same type and amount of drug but only one may develop an addiction. Everyone's body is a little bit different (and thank God for that, am I right?). But I am glad to see that mine is not SO very different that I am completely alone in this weight gain/ sugar craving problem. It feels good to know youre not alone.

Sorry for my long post, just had to share my knowledge with everyone!
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Unread 10-14-2016, 11:16 AM   #21
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Oh, also, I gained the weight within the first year and a half (so there's no other common denominator involved), I haven't relapsed even once (so there's no reason for renewed hormone / chemical imbalance cravings), and I did not do drugs the first time until I was 25 (so I was always a thinner person even before doing drugs).

And just to explain why I've been taking subutex for over 4 years, I have talked to my doctor about this... I don't want ANYthing to trigger a relapse. So if I have to be on subutex the rest I my life to prevent relapse, I will do so. For me, subutex works. It makes me fat and selfconscious, but that's better than losing my kids any day! Besides, my youngest likes that I'm 'squishy'! Lol!
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