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Unread 05-04-2011, 10:52 PM   #1
Positivetj
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Default Suboxone to subutex problems?

anybody have any problem switching over from suboxone to subutex? Not the film.... Just the generic pills. Been on suboxone for a total of7 weeks. Doc switched me over to generic last week to help me with pricing issues.
Thanks!
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:45 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Positivetj, what issues are you having with the switch? Some members have said that they need more to equal the same effect of the brand name. Others have said it works the same. Let us know the problems you're having when you can.

Nancy
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Unread 05-05-2011, 09:25 AM   #3
Champ
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I switched after 3 years and it doesn't feel anything like Suboxone to me. I don't get the same energy and I don't feel as content with life in general I am getting back some past anxiety problems I had even before suboxone that I thought was from the mood changes when abusing oxycontin etc. It's a damn shame that I lost my health care like many others in this country and they invent a pill to help us stay off of oxy's and percocets etc and the pill they invent cost MORE than the pills we abused a name brand Subutex is $14.60 for ONE PILL at the pharmacy. So the bottom line is the pharmaceutical companies are in it just for the money not to get us better. They are the LEGAL drug dealers and the guys on your street selling their pills are the illegal ones. MONEY MONEY MONEY screw us getting better! That's my opiniuon I sure wish I was back on suboxone but where am I getting $800 a month to buy the script???
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Unread 05-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #4
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P.S.- It does work exactly the same for "cravings" so you don't have to worry about the craving for whatever past drug you abused. It also works different for each individual and I wish you all the best that your body accepts it more than mine. Peace stay straight!
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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:31 AM   #5
Positivetj
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Thanks for the reply Nancy and Champ. I have heard from a few others that they felt it was under dosed. I spoke to my pharmacist who is a good friend of mine and he said he had a few others that said they felt the generic tex was stronger than the brand sub. He said if it says it has 8mg of bupe then by law it has to have the same amount of active ingredient. But who knows. I have been on sub treatment for 7 weeks now. Took forever to level out and find the right dose. With suboxone I finally did. A week ago my doc let me switch to subutex because it saved me $250 a month. So the first 4 days were fine but the past two days I have just felt weird. No cravings as Champ said but just not add much energy. Feel like I'm in a fog. It really blows because I was just getting used to completely normal days. I also have some anxiety which is the worse part to me. The only thing that may work to my advantage is that I have only been in sub treatment for 7 weeks so if the pill is different I hopefully will adapt quickly.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:40 AM   #6
NancyB
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Hi Positivetj, I wonder if you need to adjust your dose down a little then? You may be absorbing more than the name brand, and with the halflife building up, it might just be too much. For a lot of people, if they start feeling lethargic, then it's a signal to reduce the dose.

Just a thought.

Nancy
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:12 PM   #7
Jack123
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Hey Positivetj,

I'm on generic Subutex and I had a lot of problems with the 1st generic brand. Tell me something, are they big white round pills?

I also think the Name Brand are the best. I'm finding all the generics cause some anxiety. But I was on NB for 5 years and I don't recall any anxiety at all.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:19 PM   #8
Champ
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Positivetj this is the exact problem I am having the suboxone made me feel full of energy and great! It has to be that other drug its mixed with (naloxone) although everyone is telling me including my doctor OH that's only a blocking agent for anti-abuse and it CANNOT BE ABSORBED SUBLINGUALY so it's impossible to say the mixture of the two is giving me the energy? So what is it I am a mental case? I don't think so I know the way my body feels after 3 years of Suboxone and this Roxane Subutex is NOT ACTING THE SAME WITH ANY DOSE! I have tried LESS tried MORE it's different period. I cannot find the TEVA pills anywhere in my area to see if it's just the brand Roxane doing it and I have never taken the BRAND Subutex either. I would love to know if the brand really affects me any different or the TEVA but how when I cannot get them? Thanks again to my employer for screwing me and taking our health care away after 20+ years!!! And they are making over 1 MILLION more per month in profits NO EXCUSE JUST GREED!!
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:35 PM   #9
stp747
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positivetj, I switched from Suboxone name brand to Roxane subutex and I like the roxane sub. better. You may have to lower your dose like Nancy said, the Roxane worked so much better for me I also lowered my dose. Steve
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Unread 05-05-2011, 07:02 PM   #10
Positivetj
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Steve...i believe you and I spoke about this on another site as well. It is good to hear some one is doing good on the generic roxane. It seems most who are on it seem to be having problems on it. I made the switch to the roxane about a week ago. The first 3 or 4 days seem to go fine but over the past few days I have definitely felt different but not in a positive way. Been in kind of a fog as well as some anxiety which is weird because my doc has me on 1mg extended release xanax. (I was on xanax before I started seeing my sub doc so he still has me on them because he is slowly weening me off then. I realize I shouldn't be doing the two together, but scares me because I'm still having anxiety and I'm on xanax. How the hell would I feel if I want on the xanax?)
I'm guessing I felt fine the first few days on the generic because it was still in my system and going through its half life. I'm hoping my body is just adjusting to there generic because I definitely don't feel the same. I just don't have that "confident.. Everything is going to be OK feeling" as I did on the suboxone.
Nancy.... You always have such a positive outlook that is much appreciated.. Have you seen many threads or posts of people with success with the generic roxane? I'm hoping so
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Unread 05-05-2011, 07:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stp747 View Post
positivetj, I switched from Suboxone name brand to Roxane subutex and I like the roxane sub. better. You may have to lower your dose like Nancy said, the Roxane worked so much better for me I also lowered my dose. Steve
Steve..i am due for my evening dose of 4mg but may try to just do 2. But at the same time I feel like I should give the generic a week to see if my body just needs to adapt to the generic.

Nancy...i meant to add that the reason I'm on my dose of 12mg is because that what it took me to get rid if my wd's when I was inducted. I actually started at 4mg at induction.... Felt fine for ten days but started going through wd's again.. My doctor said my receptors were not staying saturated at that low of a dose. We moved it up over the next few weeks until I had no more wd's. I'm scared to reduce my amount because I just finally found my right amount until my recent generic issue.

I was on oxycodone for about 9 months straight... With the last two months doing about 220 mg a day
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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:09 PM   #12
stp747
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positivetj, Yes, give it more time if you feel that may help. I know it can be frustrating trying to get the correct dose, but it seems like you are willing to be patient, thats good. I hope you will get to the correct dose thats right for you soon. Steve
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Unread 05-05-2011, 10:16 PM   #13
Positivetj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack123 View Post
Hey Positivetj,

I'm on generic Subutex and I had a lot of problems with the 1st generic brand. Tell me something, are they big white round pills?

I also think the Name Brand are the best. I'm finding all the generics cause some anxiety. But I was on NB for 5 years and I don't recall any anxiety at all.
They are the white pills with 54111 I believe on them. What kind of problems and how long have you been on them? Im hoping my body is just adjusting...Im actually only 6 weeks in or so on the whole sub program

Jack...yes they are the white pills with 54111 on them I believe.


Champ I havent tried the TEVA, but if it will make you feel better....I have spoke to a few people on another sub board and they felt TEVA was worse than Roxane.
How long have you been on the Roxane for and at what dose?
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Unread 05-06-2011, 01:04 PM   #14
Jack123
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Thumbs up Hooray

I am so glad we are all finally talking about this. There is nothing to be gained in trying to sweep knowledge under the rug. And criticizing and insulting others because they react differently to a drug than you do, or than even most others do, is foolish at best, and just plain old mean, at worse. I knew Roxane Bupe was no good for me from the first week it hit the pharmacies, back in late 2009. At that time I went off Bupe, in part due to Roxane, but also because of pain. Now I am back on Bupe. I still have no use for Roxane. I have a few left and I'll keep them until their expiration date in case my doc dies, or something happens and I'm in desperate wds with no way to get Teva or NB. But I won't be using them. They just barely kept the wds away. They killed no pain, they gave me no energy, they didn't fight the depression, and worst of all, they caused me anxiety that went through the roof. And they didn't stop the cravings, because I was taking more and more of them, and I never felt like I had enough. And that is exactly what Bupe is supposed to stop. The only thing they stopped was the Flu like withdrawal symptoms. Other than that, Roxane Bupe is a total failure in my body. Apparently they work for others. If they work for you then you should be very grateful. Because Teva is hard to get, and the name brand is expensive. So now let's see what we can learn here from all our experiences. Let us not insult each other because we react differently to the same drug.

So besides Roxane being garbage for my body, I have learned that the Teva on Long Island in NY are almost identical to the NB. I've done a lot of comparisons now and they are very close. I wish I had someone who would give me them without telling me which it is, and I'd like to see if I could tell the difference based on how they effect me. But I have no one to do that for me. I have also noticed this. I should not keep switching brands every few days. It's screwing up my body and mind. I think last week it caused severe depression. I made a post that day, and I bet Nancy remembers it. That was the last time I switched brands. So once you find a brand you can live with, stick to it.

Positivetj, yes, those are the Roxane. Try to find a pharmacy that can get Teva. They are hard to find. There may also be some left by a company called Qualitest. I never had them, but I think they are also good. But Qualitest stopped making them, so if a pharmacy has some I would try them. One way you can easily tell the difference in the brands is only Roxane makes a round pill. Everyone else makes an oval shaped pill, the NB, Teva, and Qualitest. You also need not memorize the numbers. NB uses a logo that looks like a cross, but is meant to be a sword. Teva uses a small case b, and Qualitest's logo is a funny looking lower case v. Now about the complaints with Teva. I read on another board that many of the Teva drugs are being made in India, where there is no quality controls at all. I read that Walmart buys the Teva's that are made in India and that's why they are able to sell scripts cheaper than anyone else. This is hearsay, I don't know if it's true. But I read folks are having problems with all kinds of drugs bought at Walmart. Not just opiates or other drugs that effect the mind. All drugs. Blood Pressure drugs etc. So if the Teva that are being complained about come from Walmart or India, that may be the problem. I happen to have the actual Teva bottle the pills came in. Unfortunately my pharmacist covered the label with his label. Next month I will ask him not to do that, and I will look for where they're being manufactured. I'll bet it's not India. Even if it isn't the USA, it must be some country where quality control is watched. IMO we don't do such a great job of it anyway. We're letting Roxane get away with something. Granted some people are OK with Roxane. But everyone should be OK with a brand if it's produced correctly. I never heard anyone complain about the name Brand. Have you? So Positivetj, ask about Teva. Try small privately owned pharmacies where the owner can order what he wants. Chains like CVS have to take what the corporation gives them. I also found that Teva does cause a small amount of anxiety, where the NB causes none at all. The other difference is in potency. The Teva are weaker, and they wear off much faster. When I was on the NB I used to take 1 mg upon waking up. It gave me energy and all the good things Champ described. By Noon I took another 1 or 2 mg. A few hours later I took another 1 or 2 mg. At about 6 PM I took my last 1 or 2 mg, making a total of 5 or 6 mg. I was then fine until the next day. With Teva I need 2 or 3 mg to start the day. 2 or 3 more by noon. Another 3 or 4 throughout the day, unless I took them in the AM. I need 2 or 3 at 6 PM, and another 2 or 3 at midnight, unless I'm sleeping. But I have even woke up at 3 AM and needed to stick 2 mg under my tongue and go back to bed. The total Teva for the day is usually about 10 mg. I would prefer the NB. If my doc will back me up, I want to keep fighting my insurance co. for coverage of the NB. But since I can't afford them every month, I'll have to make due with Teva. I think we need to discover where the Teva I take are being made, and where the Teva folks are complaining about are being made? Let's start with, what states are the people in who are complaining about Teva? Does anyone know? Post it please.

Champ, I believe you said you're in PA and you can't find Teva Bupe at all? I'm sorry to hear that. Can you travel to NY once a month to get them? I suppose it depends where in PA you are. Have you tried calling or Emailing Teva directly, yourself, and asking if you can buy them? Tell them you will send a script along with your order, and tell them you will pay them anyway they want you to. Even off a certified check or a Money Order. Whatever they want. That's what I would do if I were you. But just to prove something to yourself, will your doc give you a small script for the NB Bupe? You need enough for 7 days, because it takes 3 to 4 days to get the old Bupe out of you. Once you switch to the NB you will only need about 50 - 75% as much. And until you realize that too much of the NB will make you miserable, you will probably take too much for fear of wds. That's what happens with me. Remember, with Good High Quality Buprenorphine Less is much better than more. I proved that to myself for 5 years. I had also found I needed less NB Bupe than I did of Suboxone. I know the Naloxone isn't supposed to effect you, and I know docs will swear to this up and down, do a dance, and juggle elephants, all in an attempt to convince us. But why don't they try the different drugs? I'd listen to that more than juggling elephants. So Champ, if you try NB Bupe you should need less than you needed of the Suboxone. I also think once your body gets used to NB Bupe you will find it has all the great side effects you so adequately described about Suboxone. (You really did that good Champ. I've been trying to describe that for years, and I could never find the exact right words that you did. Way to go ) So Champ if you use less NB Bupe than Suboxone the Bupe will be cheaper than the Suboxone was, because you will use less, and once again you will become a happy camper. My heart goes out to you on that Roxane. If I had to be on Roxane I'd rather go back to the pain pills, even the Morphine which had made me get suicidal. Better that than Roxane. That's how badly the Roxane effected me.

So who knows what states can get Teva, and which states are folks complaining about them in? And maybe more importantly, where are the Teva in question being purchased, is it Walmart?

Let's try to figure this stuff out folks. After all, it's our lives that are on the line here. Us, no one else.

Jack



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Unread 05-06-2011, 02:48 PM   #15
NancyB
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Hi Jack, just a thought, you posted: "When I was on the NB I used to take 1 mg upon waking up. It gave me energy and all the good things Champ described. By Noon I took another 1 or 2 mg. A few hours later I took another 1 or 2 mg. At about 6 PM I took my last 1 or 2 mg, making a total of 5 or 6 mg. I was then fine until the next day."

Are you perhaps looking for the buprenorphine to do something that it's not indicated to do? It's indicated to stop withdrawals and cravings. Not to give energy. You seem to be dosing to get an effect.

The bottom line with the generics is that they have to have the same amount of buprenorphine as the name brand. After that, the fillers are the only things that can be different. I think maybe you should be checking out what fillers are being used and maybe you are having some sort of reaction to those. Or the fillers aren't giving some people the same absorption ratio as the brand name fillers.

But to generalize and say that the Roxane formulation is no good is not fair. There are people who notice no difference between that and the name brand. You also must recognize that you are looking for it to do more - you're looking for it ease your depression and, with Champ, give you energy. It's not indicated to do either.

Maybe you should really look into other things that may also be contributing to the depression and lethargy. It could be more than just a generic medication that is only to stop cravings and withdrawals.

Just my opinion.

Nancy
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Unread 05-06-2011, 04:09 PM   #16
NancyB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack123 View Post
I think last week it caused severe depression. I made a post that day, and I bet Nancy remembers it. That was the last time I switched brands.
Jack, here is your thread when you were depressed:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=26278

IMO, you really should think about looking deeper into getting some other help besides relying on a medication make your depression better. You have spoken of many things that you're still harboring and depressing you. No pill is going to take that away. Please think about going to a therapist or, as was talked about before, finding something to do with your time. Volunteer, join a group, get back into interaction with people. You've said many times that you're alone. That can be depressing in and of itself. IMO if you start doing more for yourself to relieve the burdens of the past that are haunting you and to get out and be among people, you're going to feel a lot better about yourself and it could help in alleviating some of your depression. Along with proper care from a psychiatrist who specializes in refractory depression.

Nancy
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Unread 05-06-2011, 04:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Positivetj View Post
Steve..i am due for my evening dose of 4mg but may try to just do 2. But at the same time I feel like I should give the generic a week to see if my body just needs to adapt to the generic.

Nancy...i meant to add that the reason I'm on my dose of 12mg is because that what it took me to get rid if my wd's when I was inducted. I actually started at 4mg at induction.... Felt fine for ten days but started going through wd's again.. My doctor said my receptors were not staying saturated at that low of a dose. We moved it up over the next few weeks until I had no more wd's. I'm scared to reduce my amount because I just finally found my right amount until my recent generic issue.

I was on oxycodone for about 9 months straight... With the last two months doing about 220 mg a day
Hi Positivetj, how are you feeling today? Did you take 4mg or 2mg last night?

Please let us know how it's going.

Nancy
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Unread 05-06-2011, 04:18 PM   #18
alanw
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Damn! With my insurance i pay 2.53$/suboxone strip. That is crazy some people pay 14$?! Have you usedthe 45$ off card?? Your doc can give you one or you can print it online. I hope you figure something out cuz i know i couldnt afford that!
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Unread 05-06-2011, 06:05 PM   #19
Positivetj
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Hey Nancy.... Thanks for checking on me
Im just going to keep on the dose my doctor said which is 4mg at night until another week. I want to see if my body is just needing to adjust to the new medicine. If I don't feel any better I will try to lower it. Still having the same feelings. I just feel really agitated. I can't really pinpoint the feeling I have. Just feel awkward like Im not looking forward to anything. I'm not tired or lethargic..... It is very irritating
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Unread 05-06-2011, 06:45 PM   #20
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Hi again, are you taking a total of 12 and the 4mg is at night? I just want to make sure I have that right.

It might not be a bad idea to check yourself against the COWS - on page 2 of this link: http://www.naabt.org/education/literature.cfm
That's the Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale. It could help to see if you're experiencing WD and where you'd be on that scale.

Are you having any cravings at all?

You know what might be helpful is to sort of keep a journal of your doses and how you feel - that's helped in the beginning especially when patients are stabilizing.

A couple of other things that might help is to be consistent with no caffeine or nicotine for 30 minutes before your dose - because both can constrict the blood vessels and hinder some absorption. And, some rinse their mouth with as warm water as tolerable right before they take the medication because it can help with absorption by dilating those blood vessels. But it's not always possible to do that.

I hope this helpful and you stabilize soon.

Nancy
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Unread 05-06-2011, 07:32 PM   #21
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hey again nancy...I'm definitely not going through withdrawals according to that test and yes my cravings are gone thank god. they have been since I started. yes a total of 12 milligrams with 4 milligrams at night. I definitely did not consider the caffeine and nicotine thing....those are good things to remember. I just have to make these pills work..the only alternative is going back to my old suboxone which is 220 dollars more a month. I can afford it but barely. I am going to be positive as I can over the next 3 weeks with the generic. I really need to give them a chanceand know that the only reason they aren't working is because my body does not like them..I figure 3 weeks is a very good test to see if it really is the medicine. as much as I don't want to pay for the expense of medicine my mental health is the most important . In the mean time I will just keep telling myself that the generic is GOING to work. if I still don't feel right in the next 7 days..I will lower my dosage. If that doesn't work I will raise my doseage since I will have extra pills from when I lowered. That way when I see my doctor in 3 weeks I will know that I have given the generic a fair shot.
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Unread 05-06-2011, 08:56 PM   #22
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Hi Positivetj, maybe doing the nicotine and caffeine thing will help with a consistent dose. I guess anything at this point won't hurt, right? That's good that you're not having any cravings and you're not in WDs. So those can ruled out. I'm glad you're going to give it some time. Please keep us posted on how you're doing.

Did you see if you qualify for the free med program?
http://www.needymeds.org/drug_list.t...&name=Suboxone


Jack, you might be interested in this too.

I did find these. This link has the ingredients of Reckitt Benckiser Suboxone and Subutex:
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...fo.cfm?id=7840

This link is the Roxane generic -tex:
http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed...o.cfm?id=11876

Look at the ingredients in the generic - see if there's anything that you might be having a reaction to. You could also try spitting out the saliva that's left after the pill dissolves to see if could be a filler causing any problems.

Here's what's in the generic Roxane:
Buprenorphine HCl Sublingual Tablets are white tablets intended for sublingual administration. They are available in two dosage strengths, 2 mg buprenorphine and 8 mg buprenorphine free base. Each tablet also contains anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate.


Also, here's the PI for the TEVA bupe:
http://www.tevausa.com/assets/base/p...orphine_PI.pdf

And the ingredients are:
Buprenorphine hydrochloride sublingual tablets are uncoated, oval, white tablets intended for sublingual administration. They are available in two dosage strengths, 2 mg buprenorphine and 8 mg buprenorphine free base. Each tablet also contains the following inactive ingredients: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone and sodium citrate.

So it looks like the only difference between Roxane and TEVA is that Roxane has crospovidone, another binder.

Ingredients in Suboxone:
SUBOXONE is an uncoated hexagonal orange tablet intended for sublingual administration. It is available in two dosage strengths, 2mg buprenorphine with 0.5mg naloxone, and 8mg buprenorphine with 2mg naloxone free bases. Each tablet also contains lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate, FD&C Yellow No.6 color, magnesium stearate, and the tablets also contain Acesulfame K sweetener and a lemon / lime flavor.

Ingredients in Subutex:
SUBUTEX is an uncoated oval white tablet intended for sublingual administration. It is available in two dosage strengths, 2mg buprenorphine and 8mg buprenorphine free base. Each tablet also contains lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate and magnesium stearate.

I hope this helps.

Nancy
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Unread 05-07-2011, 02:00 PM   #23
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Jack123,

Recovery from opioid addiction is in essence, dealing with brain adaptions that negatively influence behavior. Some of the adaptations can be reversed while others are permanent but can be dealt with through cognitive techniques.

Your reflex reactions to stress, anxiety and depression have been altered so that taking a drug becomes the automatic response. Reconditioning your brain requires repeated episodes and gaining experience dealing with such issues in a more healthy normal way so that it becomes the normal reflex reaction. Disassociating with things that remind you of addictive behaviors helps break the connections that have formed. Taking your buprenorphine in response to a desire for energy or to combat depression is the exact opposite of this. Instead of burning in new healthier brain pathways, you may be reinforcing the destructive ones.

Patients that have done well have stabilized on a dose of buprenorphine and take it once/day usually in the morning so that there is no anticipation or much thought giving to it throughout the day. This eventually becomes routine and the event of taking mediation becomes less significant. As you gain experience dealing with life without the need to take drugs, this slowly becomes the dominant response and you’ve successfully taken a step toward the reconditioning, also called recovery, or sustained addiction remission. This is a slow and deliberate process, just as it was slow to develop. As your behaviors normalize and you’ve gained repeated experience dealing with issues in a healthy way, the medication becomes less significant and can be decreased and eventually tapered off of. But it’s important to use the medication to avoid the need to dose for some effect, rather than in response to stress, anxiety, depression, lack of energy, etc.

Tim
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Unread 05-07-2011, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIM View Post
Jack123,

Recovery from opioid addiction is in essence, dealing with brain adaptions that negatively influence behavior. Some of the adaptations can be reversed while others are permanent but can be dealt with through cognitive techniques.

Your reflex reactions to stress, anxiety and depression have been altered so that taking a drug becomes the automatic response. Reconditioning your brain requires repeated episodes and gaining experience dealing with such issues in a more healthy normal way so that it becomes the normal reflex reaction. Disassociating with things that remind you of addictive behaviors helps break the connections that have formed. Taking your buprenorphine in response to a desire for energy or to combat depression is the exact opposite of this. Instead of burning in new healthier brain pathways, you may be reinforcing the destructive ones.

Patients that have done well have stabilized on a dose of buprenorphine and take it once/day usually in the morning so that there is no anticipation or much thought giving to it throughout the day. This eventually becomes routine and the event of taking mediation becomes less significant. As you gain experience dealing with life without the need to take drugs, this slowly becomes the dominant response and you’ve successfully taken a step toward the reconditioning, also called recovery, or sustained addiction remission. This is a slow and deliberate process, just as it was slow to develop. As your behaviors normalize and you’ve gained repeated experience dealing with issues in a healthy way, the medication becomes less significant and can be decreased and eventually tapered off of. But it’s important to use the medication to avoid the need to dose for some effect, rather than in response to stress, anxiety, depression, lack of energy, etc.

Tim
tim... That was a good read.... It really made me think about my own behavior and the new positive training it needs
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Unread 05-07-2011, 05:09 PM   #25
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I only used for 9 months total in my life hence the suboxone. Although my length of use was short compared to many stories I hear, I am definitely an addict. Im fortunate I stopped when I did.
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Unread 05-08-2011, 12:48 AM   #26
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Cravings for my drug of choice(oxycodone) has not been an issue since 1996. However, that was because I had taken another step up the opioid ladder by taking Methadone. It stopped my craving for all other opiates so I guess you could say it worked as intended. But I went from 30mgs to 400mgs so I felt no better off and when I was running low of Methadone I would obsess over it. I got to the point to where I felt no better off than when I was on oxycodone. So I used Bupe to get off Methadone. My induction could be described as an extremely traumatic experience. I was in no wds at all when inducted so instead of using Sub to stop wds it caused them. I have never felt quite right on Sub. And for sure I have never experienced a boost in energy or what is known as the Sub buzz. I have read where non opiate addicted persons prefer Bupe over any other opiate for the high it gives them and the length of time it last.

That's foreign to me. It may be because I have never felt all that great on Bupe in any of its forms or generic brands vs name brands. And for that reason I cannot tell any difference between one kind over another. I would absolutely love it if I could experience the energy boost some talk about getting but in over 4 years that has never been the case. Cravings for othr opiates, thank God, have not been an issue at all. Even when I jumped off Sub twice and went into some pretty horrific wds, I refused the hydrocodone my wife offered me from a script she had gotten from a dentist. My biggest problem right now is I do not feel as though I need Sub and I do not feel all that good while taking it. But I feel like hell when I don't. So for the third time I have resumed taking Sub. For purposes of pain I am now taking 2mgs three times a day and will be taking that amount until umpiring season is over. Starting back up this fall I will be doing a very slow taper, jumping when I feel mentally ready. The geberic Subutex allows me to do things this way because of cost. And I have a Dr whose office mgr has instructed her staff not to charge me a cent for any and all visits. Can't find health professionals like that every day. When the office mgr realized I had paid $50 a visit when I was on the Free Meds program for a year, she gave me a check for $600 to reimburse me. She said they did not charge folks an office visit when they were on the Free Meds program. The office mgr and the Dr are most unique as it relates to money. They did not go into the Sub business for purely business reasons. This is not on topic regarding this post I just wanted folks to know there is hope for those looking for a Dr. Though they may be few and far between there are Drs out there more interested in what's in a person's file than whats in their bank account. Now if we could just find that same compassion with respect to the makers of Suboxone. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. They are pissed that a generic form of Subutex exists.

wayne
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Unread 09-01-2016, 10:31 AM   #27
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Hi. I switched from brand name Suboxone to generic Subutex by Teva. I'm in South Florida. My Teva pills are round, not oval, idk where they were manufactured, but I'm going to check up on that now after hearing this info. My doc told me I may need to increase from 8mg of Suboxone to 12 mg of generic bupe because he felt that the receptors being filled by the naloxone would cause me to need an increase in bupe once the naloxone was not there to fill them. It's only been about 2 weeks so far, but I def feel a difference. I generally don't feel as good, or normal rather, since I switched. I have a hard time getting thru a day on only 8 mg now. But then when I take 10 or 12 a day after a few days I feel like to much has built up, and it doesn't feel good either. I'm foggy and nauseous and just want to sleep after a few days in a row of taking more than 8mg. Then, if I only take 8 mg, after a couple days I feel wd symptoms, pretty bad hot flashes, lethargy ( but a different lethargy then when I take 10-12mg, an anxious, uncomfortable kind of depressed lethargy), anxiety and the absence of constipation suddenly, constipation that I always have with Suboxone. Which makes me further feel like the Teva bupe is not as strong or I'm not absorbing it the same. I also often feel I need to take my second dose of the day sooner with the Teva bupe then I did w Suboxone, and the second dose doesn't seem to equal my first dose of the day, usually. I'm hoping all of this is just an adjustment period, but I did fear that switching to generic was going to be an issue. I just thought it would be uncomfortable for a few days while I adjusted to the difference in bupe in generic vs the bupe in Suboxone. I read somewhere that generics legally have to be within 20℅ of brand name drugs as far as the active ingredient, either over or under, but I haven't done any further research on that yet. I switched because of money(no ins.) and side effects I get from naloxone. I was told a long time ago i had an "allergic" reaction to naloxone and should only take Subutex. This was before generics, I think. I've been on subs a few different times in my life. But, you know, docs don't generally like to write for just bupe w/o naloxone. This time I was on Suboxone for about 8 months before switching a couple of weeks ago to Teva bupe. I've also noticed I've been having cravings again since I switched, but I'm craving crack not opiates. Since I've started Suboxone this time I haven't had any cravings for crack until now, or any other drug. It's not bad, but it's worrying me because it's only been a couple of weeks and I'm afraid they will grow with time. So idk what to do. My doc suggested Bunavail, I think because it has a lower naloxone ratio and is supposed to have greater bioavailability, but it is just as expensive as Suboxone, I pay out of pocket at least 260$ for Suboxone with the company coupon (the best coupon I've been able to find). So, I'm either feeling dopesick or over medicated( not in a good way) since the switch. I also smoked pot for a week a few days after switching, so I didn't notice the nausea and some other bad effects I've been having at first. I haven't taken any drugs I'm not prescribed until then, that week was an isolated incident since starting Suboxone treatment. So I don't know what part that may be playing, if any, now that I'm back to my normal regimine. My body also has never really done great with any form of bupe, be it Suboxone or Subutex, but it serves its purpose and I was feeling pretty stable and functioning before i made this switch. Right now I just feel weird all of the time. Thanks for reading this long post, I wanted to just respond to the request of saying what state I'm in and what type of generic I'm taking, but all this came out. So, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks. Also, is hard for me to fall asleep on Suboxone, and it's been harder to fall asleep on these Teva bupe's. My doc said that's normal some ppl, when opiates would cause energy rather than the down feeling, which was my experience with heroin. I felt up on it, but I just thought it was because i was usually going from being sick to well and it was natural to have energy once I felt well. I think my doc said it's because I have ADHD , so i get the reverse feelings. Like, I'm also on Adderall and I really thought it was going to speed me out, but it really does just focus me and make me feel more normal if I take it right (dosing same time of day, taking same dose daily instead of less- I've never take more than prescribed). But my point was I really have been having trouble sleeping since I've switched to generic bupe. Until I fall asleep and then don't want to wake up. So, I basically have no idea what's happening and am hoping it's just an adjustment period that is taking awhile to even out.

Last edited by femaletrouble; 09-01-2016 at 10:54 AM..
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Unread 09-01-2016, 11:10 AM   #28
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Hi femaletrouble, when you say you took 10-12mg of the Teva, were you consistent at all? If not, maybe think about taking 10mg consistently for a week to see how that works. These tips have worked for others to get better absorption:

• Tips for taking Suboxone.
-No caffeine or nicotine for at least 30 minutes before taking your Suboxone – both may constrict the blood vessels that the medication is absorbed through.
-Right before taking it, rinse your mouth out with as warm water as possible – this may dilate the blood vessels for better absorption.

The generics are definitely a weird thing. Some people love Teva and dislike the others, and vice versa.

If the film worked better, maybe you can get on their patient assistant program? What helped others who had a hypersensitivity to the naloxone was spitting out the saliva after the medication was dissolved. Here's the link to see if you qualify:
http://www.needymeds.org/drug_list.t...&name=suboxone

I hope this is helpful. I'm sorry you feel so badly.

Nancy
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Unread 09-18-2016, 08:55 AM   #29
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Have you tried the Zubsolv route? I was on Suboxone film for well since I started this journey and due to my insurance changing and not being able to afford 185 a month for medicine at this current time. I switched over to Zubsolv. They have the coupon that knocks off 2.25 per pill I believe depending on what your co-pay is, it might wind up being free like mine is currently. My co-pay is 40 bucks but by the time, they knock off the amount per pill and subtract that from the co-pay, I get mine free.
I will say that the half life doesn't feel like its as long as the films, the taste is definitely different, but all in all it works just as good as the films. I will more than likely go back on the films in a month or so, but for now Zubsolv works just fine. They did have that coupon for 15 free pills, but I don't know if that deal has expired or not.
The patient assistance program is hard to get on around here, you have to be going to a doctor that basically has NO ONE else on it or has had NO ONE else on it in a years time? I think that is what they told me when I asked about it a few months ago. I was on it, back when I first started and they upped my medicine so it would pay for more of the films. My doctor at that time was a little whacky like that.
She originally wrote me for 58 and then upped it to 90 so I was getting the maximum amount paid by the program.
Have you tried seeing if you can get different insurance? I didn't read every single post this morning here, so I am not sure if that was already tried or not or suggested to you. I will say that my insurance UHC which is United Healthcare will pay for Zubsolv and its Tier 2 in KY. Suboxone film falls under Tier 3 and I think that is 20 percent co insurance with a 120 dollar co pay minimum. I can't figure that mess out but it wound up being more than I could afford at the time so I switched over.
Baptist Health Plan in our state will only pay for nine months LIFETIME of Suboxone.
Medicaid is getting to the point that if you don't go to a place that accepts Medicaid for the monthly visit, you don't go there anymore. I don't know what is going on with it, but its getting to be a headache even having Medicaid anymore. I had to switch off so I could keep going to my awesome doctor.
I hope that you get this figured out soon, I know it can be a headache not having your medication or having it all messed up. I just went a month without mine and let me tell you, it was NOT fun.
I won't go through that mess again. If I can be of any help at all, just ask a question or let me know. I will help in anyway I can.
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