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Unread 02-26-2010, 11:58 AM   #1
mfoss24
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Default Just started subutex

Hello, I just started taking subutex 8mg 4 days ago, 1 pill twice a day. I realized I was having a problem with taking alot of vicodin to feel good/better/normal. So I had a friend who went thru a similuar situation take me to an outpatient detox where she went. From what she told me, after she took the meds, right away she felt normal and had lots of energy and made it sound very promising, even the doctor said the same thing, so I was looking forward to that and not having to deal with the vicious cycle of vicodin withdrawal. Well, I have not had such positive things happen to me. When I first got my prescription Tuesday night, my friend suggesteed take 1/2 pill first then the rest a little after. So I did, that was about 5pm, then took the other 1/2 at 6pm. Then tok my 2nd full pill at 10pm (probably a big mistake) I couldnt sleep at all that night, not even for 5 minutes. I laid in bed with eyes closed and could not fall asleep no matter what. I got up with my son in the morning and took him to school then came back home and tried to go to sleep after taking my morning pill. I called the doc to let him know I was not feeling well and hadnt slept all night and he said that was all normal side effects and to give it some time, so I did. I ended up in bed until the next morning, couldnt get up, felt sick, really bad headache, weak, etc. That next morning after barely dropping my son off, I came home and started feeling very weak and sick, ended up calling 911. They arrived and I was having a severe panick attack, ended up in the emergency room and they hooked me up to an IV, took blood, gave me oxygen, then finally 3 hours later they gave me some meds to relax me since I couldnt on my own. My whole body cramped up, went numb, I was sweating bullets, dry mouth, it really sucked. I felt like it was way more than an anxiety attack. They finally released me and said it was a severe panic attack and withdrawals and I needed to talk to doc about my meds and adjusting them. So Im waiting to hear back from him, but Im scared because this morning I woke up with the same panicky feeling so I hurried and popped 2 zanax and took the sub and that helped. Im so scared and feel like I would be better off just taking vicodin again or withdrawing from vicodin, because I have felt so bad since taking this medication and so confused since my doc and friend both said it would make me feel so much better and have energy. I dont know what to do. Im scared to cold turkey quit taking it, but im scared to continue taking it. Sorry this is so long!!!! I couldnt sleep at all last night either, and Im sure its cuz of the meds. Has anyone experienced similiar situation? Again sorry for the looooooooooong email!
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Unread 02-26-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi mfoss24, welcome. Sorry you had such a hard time starting. First, there are many people who cannot take Suboxone in the afternoon or later because it disrupts their sleep.

Secondly, the best dose is the lowest one that stops your withdrawals and cravings. Were you in WDs when you started Suboxone? How did you feel after taking just half of the pill? Sorry for the questions, but it will help us help you.

Nancy
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Unread 02-26-2010, 12:14 PM   #3
mfoss24
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hi Nancy,

thanks for the response. Im not taking suboxone, im taking subutex (which I heard are basically the same?). Yeah maybe I shouldnt take it late, but Im suppposed to take it every 12 hours? I took 1/2 pill last night at 9, then the other 1/2 at midnight and got absolutely no sleep. Im so tired now.

If the best dose is the lowest (wich I have been reading so far on here) wonder why he gave me 8mg to start with? He said he believed I was 50% in withdrawal when I went in, I was def not going thru full withdrawal symptoms, it had been a good week since I had taken like 25 pills in one day, I just had like 5 or 10 throughout the week because thats all I had. Dont be sorry for the questions - I will answer anything to try and get help! Appreciate it
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Unread 02-26-2010, 12:34 PM   #4
mfoss24
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oh and I felt fine on 1/2, but only did that once or twice, so not sure what to do.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 12:47 PM   #5
NancyB
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Hi again, Suboxone and Subutex have the same active ingredient - buprenorphine. They added naloxone to the Suboxone. Here's more on that:
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=64

Buprenorphine has a long halflife - around 37 hours - so patients really only need to take it once a day. Why he started you on 8mg, I'm not sure. "Protocol" in an induction is to start the patient with 2 or 4mg, wait an hour or so (people feel some effect within a half hour, full effect takes up to two hours). If after that hour or so, the patient is still having withdrawals, take another 2mg, wait, etc. until all symptoms are suppressed. Also, because of that halflife, it builds up in a person's system so it can take a week to stabilize.

How much have you taken so far today?

Nancy
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Unread 02-26-2010, 10:32 PM   #6
mfoss24
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yeah I thought they were same, the doc seem originally told me that they were the same except that the generic subutex is cheaper, so of course I went with cheaper if the same. Then when I talked to him again today and told him how bad I was feeling, he told me he was going to change me to suboxone and I said I thought you said there was no diff and he said of course there is and if it was generic. So I am not so confident in him right now, plus with all these side effects and him starting me off on such a high dose and ending up in the ER because of all this, I dont know what to do. I was told I should have been feeling great by now with lots of energy, which is far from it. Today I took 8mg at 8am then 1/2 8mg at 6pm then the other 1/2 at 9pm. I feel fine now, but im scared that tomorrow morning I will wake up feeling weird again and having another panic attack. Im also so confused because I keep reading everywhere that it is very dangerous to take antidepressants and zanax with these meds, yet Im on them and informed the doc and he said I will be fine...but why are there all these warnings not too??? he said just to make sure to take them at least 2 hours apart from eachother and not together. So I dont know If I should continue taking 2 8mg pills a day or split them in 1/2 or quit or what. All I know is that I did not feel this bad when I stopped taking vicodin, this is worst.
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Unread 02-26-2010, 10:40 PM   #7
NancyB
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Hi mfoss24, the danger with benzos is if someone takes too many. Taken as prescribed, they're safe with Suboxone/Subutex. In my opinion, if you don't feel that great tomorrow, talk with your doctor about trying a dose reduction. It can't hurt. Not everyone needs 16mg. And it could be that if you dropped the 9pm one, you'd sleep better and feel better all around. Just a thought.

Let us know how you're doing when you get a chance.

Nancy
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Unread 02-26-2010, 10:52 PM   #8
mfoss24
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thank you Nancy, you have been a great help! I will keep you posted!
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Unread 02-26-2010, 10:58 PM   #9
okie
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I couldnt sleep when I started sub, or took it too late in the day.

In my opinion it sounds as though your dose is way too high..I wouldnt take any tomorrow, and probably not sunday either..BUT I am not a Dr, so I hope you can talk to your Dr about getting on a much lower dose..unfortunately everyones dosing is completely different..but on average it would not surprise me if you were ok on 2 or 4 mgs a day..

Is there any possibility you have had the flu? Just a thought..

When I was induced the Dr had me take 2mgs and waited an hour to see if I was feeling better..And that is usually the best way..2mgs an hour or two until the patient is no longer in withdrawals..

Sub is safe with most other prescribed meds as long as they are taken as prescribed..I was reading around some of the other forums about sub last night, and frankly much of the information I read elsewhere was ridiculous. If I hadnt been reading facts here for the past 4 yrs I would have been scared senseless...so stick with reading places that back up info with facts,studies,etc..peoples opinions and advice (after what I saw elsewhere last night) are just insane..scare tactics and all sorts of other garbage spouted as truth..just scary if you ask me.

Hang in there and feel better soon!!
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Unread 02-27-2010, 12:06 AM   #10
amandaG
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Default To the person new to sub

Hang in there--to the person who had to go to ER. My advice would be not to go back to using....I do understand your fear of that happening again but have faith...This medicine and quitting the vicodin is still new to you and your body. It may be that your dose is wrong? I don't know, I am NOT a doctor. From my personal experience suboxine HAS and IS working for me. First when I got it prescribe I had to have a person very close to me hold on to it for me because of course I tried to abuse it. That was my addiction-medicine and getting high on it(oxycontin) about 4 80mg, I liked to snort them. SUBOXONE SAVED MY LIFE, AND I really hope you are able to get this worked out. Like Nancy said, my doctor kept me there for a long time to get my dose right, he gave me a 2mg tablet, I waited for a bit, then he gave me 2mg, waited and so on until we got my dose right. I don't think all doctors do that though. Because my first sub doctor(when I was still abusing)(thats why it didn't work with that doc) well ,he just wrote it out for 2 8mg tablets a day. Maybe you should research other sub doctors if you are having "trust" issues with the one you have.
GOOD LUCK
AMANDA G
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Unread 03-18-2010, 04:06 PM   #11
faithheals
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yeah, your dose was definitely too high if that was all the pain pills you were taking in a week.
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Unread 06-27-2010, 06:09 PM   #12
ironman
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I went through this too. Ambulance ride. ER and all. I lowered my dose and it never happened again. My 'theory' is that the too high dose slowed my breathing to shallow and the reactiom was a 'panic attack' - a wariong that something was seriously wrong !
Theres a series of events that lead up to these things, some psychological (which the panic attack is). if you think back I bet you will remember thinking early on 'somethings wrong, something ain't right' and you start getting nervous. Otherwise though you don't have the other symptoms of a drug over dose so you think its not this. You are still alert - this is the main difference from the typical 'drug od'. I actually developed a spooky, surreal feeling - like in a waking dream feeling. Hard to explain but I had later read a line 'feeling of impending doom' some wehere and that line seems to describe the feeling aptly. For days after being released from the hospital, I was terrified to take this med as I never want to experience that sensation again ! The oddest part of the whole thing was that I sat here reading on the 'net and taking my pulse not sure what to do. I needed to be getting my butt ready for work yet I just knew something terrible was in the works. I got my cordless phone and unlocked my front door in the event I had to dial 911 yet, I didn't feel the immediate urge to call for help. Not your typical emergency - I wasn't even sure how I was going to describe the way I was feeling it was so strange. I realized finally that my respiration's were off as my involuntary muscles were not doing their job with the breathing routine. I never 'gasped for air' though and I don't think I was cyanotic. The major symptom was 'I don't feel right and I'm very afraid'. Explain that to a 911 dispatcher !

ps- I know this is an old thread just posting for newbies and my own 'record'. Hopefully the antidotes will be useful to someone.
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Unread 06-28-2010, 08:06 AM   #13
blackthorn
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So ok MFoss24 where are you and how are you it has been about 4months whats the update?
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