Addiction Survivors

Notices

Reply
Unread 11-22-2014, 07:15 PM   #1
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default Must do Speedy Sub Taper-

Hi,
I'm getting off Sub, too, once & for all. I've been to a few detoxes to get off of it, & it worked out fine. However, I was also on antidepressants & Neurotin. I'm not on anything else at all now because I can't afford to go to the doctor. You may ask why if the tapers worked so well am I still on Sub. The answer to that is simply because I still had a huge supply of Sub left to take that I always saved while I was getting it from my Sub doc, & didn't listen when it was strongly suggested that I get rid of it.
Except for one detox where they stopped me cold turkey from 8mg, I never had major issues with getting off Sub. I might have conjured up "symptoms", but that was so I could rationalize taking excessive amounts of Klonopin. I never really had any serious issues. I usually spent 30 days in rehab with no issue after tapering off & I was fine. But, I took Sub again simply because it was here & it made me feel "better", even though I wasn't feeling physically bad to begin with. I did suffer from terrible body spasms/twitches, but eventually they went away. And if that's the worst I have to deal with again, that's ok. They weren't painful, just completely out of control and annoying. They would even wake me up at night. Now when I really do desire to go to detox & get off Sub once & for all- I have no money or insurance.
I was on 8mg. Then months ago I dropped to 4mg with absolutely no issues whatsoever. I'm at 2mg per day now, and plan to do a final taper & be off in about 2 weeks or so. It's not a specific taper I did at any detoxes, because I was always on much higher doses then. I created this taper plan myself. I do have enough back up Sub if it doesn't work, but, it HAS to work. I need off so I can pass a drug test & get a job. I think just knowing that I do have more Sub left- IF needed- will help tremendously in a psychological aspect. Overthinking a taper just makes it harder. A lot of doctors don't know what they're doing, anyway, when it comes to Sub tapers, so I'm hoping my taper plan is just as sufficient. Although I feel somewhat confident about the taper, I'm still also super scared. This is my taper plan:

Yesterday I started an official taper & actually cut my Subs with a pill cutter & not just breaking by hand. I'm still taking orange tablets.
Fri-11/21-2mg
Sat-2mg
Sun- 2mg
Mon-2mg
Tue-2mg
Wed-none-Skip day
Thurs-2mg
Fri-none-Skip day
Sat-none-Skip day
Sun-2 mg
Mon-none-Skip day
Tue-none-Skip day
Wed-none-Skip day
Thurs-2mg
Done

Any thoughts?
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 06:53 AM   #2
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, glad to hear you're doing better. One thought I have is to just start skipping days now instead of waiting until Wednesday. That way you'll either be ahead of the game or you'll find that you have to slow it down a little. As you know, cutting a dose in half when people are that low, can -but necessarily- be a little harder than at the higher doses. Just don't box yourself in.

More important is that you have a support plan in place. Do you have people you can turn to if it gets difficult? Is your depression under control, or is it the bupe that is keeping it under control? Just throwing out some questions for you think about. I want you to be successful, get a decent job and move past all of this.

Exercise if you can, even just 10 or 20 minutes a day will help. Anything to get your natural endorphins going. And as you said, don't overthink it.

We're here to help support you!

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 08:02 AM   #3
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
Thank you for your advice. That's a great idea. I'll skip a dose today and then take 2mg tomorrow, skip 2 days, take 2mg on Thursday, etc...
Since either way I won't get the job that I already applied for, I just won't resume my job search until I'm off of Sub. so that I can take my time if need be and resume my job search in the New Year.
I decided to jump off at 2mg because I know it can be done successfully because I've done it before, and that's how they do it in every single detox I've been to (except that one). Looking back to that huge list of meds I was on after the 8mg jump by that crazy detox, I really only ever "took" the Klonopin faithfully, and that was the reason I even went to the dr. at all.
I'm still extremely depressed. Actually, Sub doesn't even keep my depression in check anymore. I take it now just because I have to so I can taper off & not get sick. I've never been so depressed in all of my life. Now, not only am I still depressed in general, but I also have additional depression over the disaster that my life has become financially and because I can't find a job. I'm so used to being depressed that I doubt I'll ever NOT be depressed. I honestly wish I had the guts to just end it all because I have no quality of life, whatsoever, absolutely nothing brings me joy, and I can't do anything at all because I have no money at all. There is no point in living like this. I don't feel as though I'm even "living", I'm just "existing" on this planet. But, if I don't get a job- I'll be in a homeless shelter, which would be even worse.
No, I have no "support". I only really speak to my mother & my NA sponsor- neither know I even take Sub or neither would even speak to me if they did know. My roommate knows, but all we do is argue and we barely speak because all we do is fight about finances since he too is unemployed. He left his job of 12 years to go to a better jib. Then, the person he replaced didn't like their new job, so they hired the original person back & fired my roommate after less than 2 months. That was back in July. His unemployment will run out by February 1st, and that's what's paying the bills, so that's why I have to get a job by then or else I'll lies the house I just bought 3 years ago, as well as all of the money I put into it-which was a LOT.
Oh-and, I've actually been told that it was all because I was on Sub that I made "irrational decisions" and my thinking wasn't clear!! Can you imagine!! Now I'm told "how good" I look, and how much "better" I am--Because they think I'm off of it--But I'm still taking Sub-it's just that no one knows it!! Just as they didn't know it before because Sub did NOT cloud my thinking!!
Anyway, so I have to do this completely on my own. I can't even afford to go to a doctor. It's going to be a horrible mess, I'm sure. But, everything is horrible now, too, and I'm used to being miserable. I never in all my life thought id end up destitute and poor like thus. It's a hole that once in, it's hard to get out. I hope I'm still functional and employable after getting off Subs. I was really ok before, so I expect to be again. But, as I said, I at least took antidepressants & Neurotin before-which I am not on now. So, we'll see what happens.
I know it's not going to be good- but the alternative of not getting a job & being homeless would be even worse. I am used to living in complete misery and depression every single waking moment, so hopefully it won't get too much worse after going off Subs.
I have soooo much Sub in my system, though, that it'll probably take MONTHS to get it all out.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 12:42 PM   #4
Sam Bailey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,630
Default

Hello Michelle,

I'm sorry that you're feeling so sad and downtrodden. Regret also that you're (perhaps) facing a Sub issue re: work.

Please consider these two ideas. Based on evidence of all kinds, personal and anecdotal, the FACT is they work. And as they work, an individual's life, her personal quality of life, improves----by lots 'n lots.

At least, please give them consideration.

Yes, sounds as though your life is both complicated and damned difficult. Yet the truth is, there are hundreds, even thousands of women, men and children whose lives are far, far worse than your own.

Michelle? Take some of your time, whether or NOT you can "afford" to give it---and, hell yeah, give it to them. Maybe a Sunday Morning Soup Kitchen...or maybe a one day per week in which you spend ONE hour visiting with a house bound invalid. You WILL change that person's life.

Yes Michelle, you CAN afford one hour. Yes, you can. It may not, at first, feel right. but I promise you that before long, you will know that is the right thing.

Now, regarding the mg dose of Subutex. these days, all Subutex is NOT dispensed for addiction problems only. though not yet sweeping the nation, many shrinks claim that they use low dose sub as an antidepressant. Repeat: Not to treat addiction, but to treat depression.

Maybe you could us that in your defense,

best

sam b
Sam Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 05:10 PM   #5
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Thank you, Sam Bailey.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-23-2014 at 05:25 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 06:31 PM   #6
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, did you look into the ACA to see how much insurance would cost - or if you qualify for state insurance? Or check this link to see if there are any low-cost/no-cost clinics near you for at least therapy or maybe even an anti-depressant if you need it.
http://www.needymeds.org/free_clinics.taf

The halflife of bupe is around 37 hours, so it won't take months for it to work out of your system. Especially at 2mg or essentially 1mg if you do end up alternating days. If you do get offered a job by Aetna, just go, take the drug screen and see what happens. They may not even test for it. Or maybe you can find out what they screen for.

But please, see if you can get find a sliding scale therapist, not for addiction or your taper, but for your depression. And, because you mentioned suicide, I would be remiss if I didn't give you the Suicide Hotline Information.
http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
800-273-8255

Michele, you are worth it. Just take things one step at a time and try not to project too far in the future. Nothing is predictable.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2014, 10:53 PM   #7
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
Oh my- I'm not going to commit suicide. I would never have it in me to do it. I'm just so miserable & fearful.
I did check into ACA, as a matter of fact I did that just Friday. I found a plan I liked, & applied. Because my 2015 projected income was apparantely based on what I earned within the past month-- I got a notice that I am too poor to qualify for insurance on the market, and they took my application and AUTOMATICALLY submitted it to the Dept of Welfare for Medicaid.
I will look into the counseling, thank you so much for the link.
I went to my NA meeting tonight- & feel better. There truly are people worse off than I am.
I didn't take any Sub today. I'm going to try to not take any tomorrow, too. I feel absolutely fine. Maybe if I can not take anymore at all, & suffer, if they call me for the job I just may be able to pass a drug test if they DO test for Sub--- in about a week's time. Do you think that would be possible? Is a week long enough to have it not show up in a urinalysis? That's about when they would call if I was to be hired ,anyway. Probably not this week. I could delay calling them back for a day, too, if they call, which would delay the drug test another day. I don't know if I can do it, though-- not take anymore Sub at all. Especially not if it's right here. I should really get it out of my house & put it in deposit box for now. Then once I know for sure I'm off & done- get rid of it so I don't have to go through this ever again. I wish I could go to a detox & a rehab & a recovery house, but, can't right now.
Going to bed. Have a good night. Thanks again, Nancy.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-23-2014 at 11:02 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 07:05 AM   #8
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, thank you. I feel better that you're not thinking about suicide. I'm also glad you went to a meeting and got out of your house. Staying away from your toxic roommate any amount of time always helps.

Since it's hard to know what dose you actually have in your system, I did some quick math using 6mg as a starting point because Dan did some math earlier this year and figured out that 2mg a day would max out at 6mg once the medication built up (accounting for the amount taken and lost through the halflife wearing out). So let's go with you have 6mg in your system today and stop taking it. Next Monday you'll have .1875mg and next Thursday .046mg. BUT you also have to take into consideration that you likely do not have 100% absorption. The average absorption of Suboxone tablets is somewhere around 55% - of course with there being extreme low amounts and higher amounts. Let's say you're in the average 55% range of absorption, then next Monday, assuming you don't take any more, you'd have roughly 0.05mg. You'd have to divide an 8mg tablet in 100 pieces to get to .08mg - just to give an illustration of how tiny a piece at 100% absorption would be.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you can jump from 2mg without much problem. It has been done. Just stay busy, positive and try not to overthink it.

Keep us posted.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 09:09 AM   #9
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
That's WAY, WAY, WAY too much algebra for me!! I don't really know exactly how many mg I took, either. It might have been more. I was breaking them by hand. I know I took extra last Thursday, the day I had the interviews, too. I actually had 2 interviews on Thursday & one on Friday morning. I know I took 2mg Friday, 2mg Saturday, because I cut them, & none yesterday. That's all I'm certain about. I wasn't taking 8mg a day or anything, but it is quite safe to say that some days I may have taken closer to 4mg. Basically, though, what I think you are saying is that even if I stop today, and go for a drug test next week, that it would still show up in my system.
I know at detoxes they do stop at 2mg--but they start out higher.12mg, to 8mg, to 6mg, to 4mg to 2mg-within 7-10 days they complete this. And I've never had issues. Is it just harder to stop from a lower dose?
I know one benefit of being in rehab is that they keep people busy. No time to dwell on how you're feeling. No access to take more Sub if people think they need it. I think that's HUGE. It's when we dwell on how bad we think we feel--A LOT of which is most likely all in the the head to rationalize taking more-and accessibility to more--that causes difficulty in tapering off. Not to say there aren't symptoms--of course there are-- but, are they really as bad as we think they are? I know I can and have gone 3-4 days without taking Sub with no real symptoms at all. But, like today, because I am thinking about it, now I think I may feel bad. But I don't. Sure, I'm yawning a slight bit & have no appetite. But, I don't feel "bad", & it's not the end of the world. I think if I take no more Sub I probably wouldn't really feel the true bad symptoms until Wednesday or Thursday. How bad they would be, I don't know. But if that's all I think about, no matter what--they will be totally unbearable--whether they really are totally unbearable or not.
I'm going to do my best to go for as long as I can without taking more. Although, perhaps if I stuck to my original plan, I may be more successful in getting off. Maybe even do some 1mg. But I think it's harder to get off of smaller doses than 2mg. So not sure if I want to go that route.
Either way--even if I stop completely-last dose having been on Saturday at 2mg--if I get the job-I STILL won't pass the drug test next week, which was my main concern. I can not believe how long this stays in the system. It's crazy.
How long for 6mg to be TOTALLY out? Not just 100ths of an 8mg pill still being in the system by Monday? That still counts as being in the system. I'm not good with algebra- so I have no idea how long. I would think that within a month it surely should be all out--completely-if I stop. But, I'd like to know about how soon--approximately--it would be totally out.
Either way, I'll have to temporarily put job searching on hold. Either I'll probably feel bad, or won't be able to pass a drug test. Luckily it's the holidays and there aren't many jobs to apply for, anyway. I just don't know what's going to happen if I don't find a job!!
I do have my minimum wage crap job to go to this week yet, for sure, anyway. So, at least that will keep me busy during this time. Whether or not I even pass training class or am able to continue next week I don't know.
For me, it's not physical symptoms that concern me, except RLS--it's the anxiety & depression that go along with withdrawal that kill me. I have enough of that still being on Sub and without withdrawal. Plus my situation is not really just all in my head-- if I don't find a job--SOON--I will lose my house & everything else. Who wouldn't be depressed & have anxiety over that? Even people who don't suffer from depression or anxiety would, I'm sure.
I do have a positive attitude today. I'm focusing on the short term only--today--and trying to only think about getting off Sub & starting job search in New Year-which are short term goals. Not thinking about long term goals and about losing my house. Well i am, but trying not to dwell on it constantly. I can't do anything about that until I'm off of Sub--so that has to come first. I also have no choice but to use NA as my recovery tool since I have no doctor, meds or therapist. Although I will look into those links for counselors. I truly believe that I have hit my bottom, and, although my sponsor doesn't know about the Sub--she knows everything else--& she tells me it's extremely important that I NEVER forget how I feel during this time. It'll help keep me clean. And also, I realize now I had it pretty dam good, before. I just didn't realize it, or appreciate it in the least. Only now that I've lost my good job & way of life do I realize how good I actually did have it, and really had no reason to be depressed. My life NOW is cause for depression!!
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-24-2014 at 09:31 AM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 10:57 AM   #10
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

I just got a call from Aetna HR. I'm pretty sure I'm being offered that job--with no way of passing drug test. I have no reason to believe Aetna doesn't test for Sub- when they not only test for prescription drugs-- but also LEVELS of prescription drugs to make sure people aren't taking too much.
This goes hand in hand with what NA says-- drugs ruin lives, and as long as people use- things will continue to get worse. This job would have allowed me to save my house. But because I didn't know Sub was tested for- I won't get the job now. Especially if I have to go for a drug test THIS week, which is when it would be, within 72 hours of accepting the position.
Although Sub doesn't cause addictive behavior & causes no harm- it's still illegal without a script, and has the same ramifications as other drugs.
My positive attitude for the day is gone. I was hoping I wouldn't get offered this job- because not having been offered it is more acceptable than having to turn it down because I'm taking illegal drugs, even though I'm really trying with recovery.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 11:15 AM   #11
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, you haven't been offered the job yet, right? And with Thanksgiving and the day after being a holiday for a lot of people, they may not even offer it until next week. Say they offered it on Monday and you accepted Tuesday, you'd have to take the drug screen by Friday I think? Get a bupe drug test and see if it shows up because without knowing how much you absorb, there is no sense in even trying to guess how long it will be in your system. But if you absorbed 100% and had 6mg in your system today, next Friday there would be 0.023mg. Would that even be detectable?

Here's one place that has bupe tests.
http://www.homehealthtesting.com/sub...est-p-107.html

There are some on ebay that are very inexpensive.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...st+kit&_sop=15

I think that would be worth the few dollar investment.

As for withdrawals from bupe, that too is subjective. People have had little problem jumping from 2mg and some just wait until they are much lower. Again, something that you can't predict because it's individual.

Seriously think about getting one of those tests. It will give you an idea of what's in your system.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2014, 01:05 PM   #12
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

They called me first thing this morning. According to what I not was told & read on Glassdoor- this is the actual job offer & the drug test must be taken within 72 hours of acceptance of offer. I can delay & then say I'm out of town for holiday- or not call back til later this week- & hope for the best. But I'd rather not fail a drug test in case I can re-apply in the future. I don't want a failed drug test for Suboxone on my record with them.
I am not taking anymore Sub, though. I'll just suffer through. I'm going to flush what I have left as soon as I get home before I start to get sick because if I don't- I know I won't succeed in getting off.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-25-2014, 09:54 AM   #13
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi,
I haven't called the job back, and they've left me THREE voicemail messages now. So, I'm pretty sure it's a job offer. I'm totally devastated.
I never flushed my Sub when I got home last night, which I know is STUPID. But, until now, I've never had any real compelling reason to stop taking it--other than just not wanting to be physically dependent on a drug that I'll eventually run out of. There were no stakes involved because I stupidly & truly believed Sub wasn't used on employer drug tests. The stakes for getting off are now insurmountable. And that being said, along with my involvement in NA-- I truly believe the dreaded time has come where I'll finally stay off.
It's day 3 of no Sub-- I am still feeling fine. However, I've been on it so long, I'm sure it's completely built up in my system. I read on other sites that it can take up to 24 days to not show on a drug test--which allegedly came straight from RB-the manufacturer of Sub. I have all the variables that make it take longer to get out---longtime daily use, slow metabolism, I'm about 25 pounds overweight, I don't exercise, and I'm 45 years old. I won't feel safe until it's at least 30 days. Now hair follicle testing-- that's another story. There would be no hope at all in my passing such a test probably for at least a year. I hope I don't lose ANOTHER job due to that! Jobs are impossible to get, my life depends on my getting a decent job, and to have to lose one due to taking Sub is WORSE than any Sub withdrawals could ever be. It could be another 6 months to 2years until I find another comparable position--if ever.
As far as depression- and remaining off of Sub & other opiates & Benzos without being on Sub-- I believe I will be totally miserable, but, what choice do I have? I'm working on changing my thinking to eliminate my depression & anxiety. That's all I can do. One day at a time.
Once I am truly past the hump of getting off Sub- which I think should be by next week, for sure, I'm getting rid of them. The worst of the withdrawal, for me, is usually days 4-7. That will actually be early next week. It hasn't been bad in the past-for me- coming off of 2mg. I'm hopeful that will remain true this time, too.
Day 3 on what has become a self-induced"cold turkey speedy Sub Cut Off" rather than a "speedy Sub taper"- is fine and symptom free so far. There is no speedy "taper" when the goal is strictly all elimination from urine, blood & saliva!! Because even after the taper, I'd have another month--(in MY mind- no matter the actual facts) before not having to worry about taking a drug test. I'm pitying job search on hold until Jan. 2nd. I can't afford to do that, but, it is what it is. Taking Sub is NOT an option unless I feel like I'm not going to live-which isn't likely to happen.
Do I WANT to take some right now. Absolutely. I know I have something that would make me feel better than I do mentally and that would enhance my mood and overall feeling of well being sitting 2 feet away in my drawer,--Subs--but, eventually it will just cause me more problems that I don't need. I have begun to treat them the same as regular opiates, because I have to- simply because Sub docs are impossible to find and unaffordable to me. Even if I had insurance- doctors around here don't take it, anyway.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-25-2014, 12:00 PM   #14
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, get one of those bupe drug screens - they're inexpensive. Then you can see what's there and stop projecting that it's the worst-case scenario. Which would be that you absorb 100% and it takes forever for it to leave your system. You just don't know.

If you do absorb 100%, and were taking 2mg for even 10 years, next Friday it should not be detectable in a drug screen. The other thing you do not know is if they even test for bupe.

On that same link you read about more employers screening for bupe, did you read the bottom part?
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=78

Buprenorphine can be detected with drug tests for 7-10 days at typical doses, although this time could vary considerably with much higher or much lower doses along with the individual's metabolism rate.

To know if buprenorphine will be detected (providing the employer is indeed testing for buprenorphine) you can purchase your own test kit ahead of time and monitor the detectable levels of bupe to aid in scheduling the employer's drug test.

Then there was a link to a place to purchase a test.
http://www.drugtestingworld.com/bupr...18c64fa01b08f4


As for the statement that the longer you take it, the longer it takes to leave your system is dependent on ONE main thing - the amount that you are taking. The 37-hour halflife means that half of what someone takes today is gone in 37 hours. So if someone just takes 24mg one time, in 37 hours they will have 12mg left. Obviously, that will take longer to leave the system than you, who had been taking 2mg. and if even if you had been taking 2mg for 10 years, at that point in time there would be approximately 5.5mg in your system. Obviously, it would take less time for 5.5mg to leave one's system than 24mg.

I think you could save yourself a lot of overthinking and projecting if you ordered a test today to see where the bupe level is at.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to NancyB For This Useful Post:
Thank You (11-29-2014)
Unread 11-25-2014, 02:10 PM   #15
nan
Senior Member
 
nan's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,398
Default

Hi MicheleJ, I am with NancyB all the way. You need this job and they have left you 3 messages. Call them back and if they are offering you the job then accept it!! There is no way you could take a drug test until next week. I doubt very much that they even test for bupe, but to ease your mind get a self-test and check it yourself. It seems to me that you have gotten yourself all hyped up and need to just step back a bit. Get the test and then you will know. Otherwise your imagination runs wild. Let us know!

nan
nan is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to nan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (11-25-2014), Thank You (11-29-2014)
Unread 11-28-2014, 02:39 PM   #16
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi-
Thanks for the responses. I did read that bottom part from NABT--that is the exact place where I found out that employers are now more commonly testing for it. If it wasn't a health insurance company who happened to go on & on about the drug testing, and testing for actual drug levels-- at a lab--via a urine test, I wouldn't be concerned about it. I passed 3 drug tests within the past 6 months at other companies for crappy jobs. But, this is a top medical insurance company in the country, and a job that at least pays a living wage. I have absolutely no reason to believe they would not test for Subs. They are not looking to cut costs by skimping on a drug test, especially a urine test. They probably get them done for next to nothing at a contracted rate. They don't have to cut costs, and no company is more educated about drug abuse than a top medical insurance company such as Aetna. It's a decent job, and with any decent company, the tests are probably much more stringent. The crap jobs I worked at so far only did 5 panel, and the quality of jobs they were-- the companies probably don't even really want to delve too deeply into drug use, on purpose, otherwise they would have too much trouble filling such crap jobs. They test, at a minimum, and only test because they have to for insurance purposes. Any decent company, especially a health insurance company-- is more likely to test for Subs. Even though only a few employers do test for Sub-- I would tend to think that a company such as Aetna would definitely be one of those "few". Although I don't know for certain, I'm not willing to take the chance because I want to be able to apply in the future.
It's now day 6 of no Sub. NONE. Physically- I feel absolutely perfect & I have had absolutely no issues whatsoever other than restless legs the other night. However, I am terribly depressed and STRONGLY craving drugs. Any drugs would do.
I know that Sub is still blocking opiates, though, because I took Percocet this morning and it didn't effect me at ALL. So, what does this mean on day 6 of no Subs? It obviously means that I still have a high enough amount of Sub in my system to still block opiates, and that the worst withdrawals may be still yet to come. I must have had even more Sub in my system than I thought. There most likely must be a high enough amount that will be nowhere near an undetectable level on a drug test. The stupid Perc I took will be gone from my system 5 days, max- I'm sure. I'm still clueless about Sub. I'm really thinking that it's going to be closer to the 24 days for it to be completely out of my system, at ANY detectable level.
Is it normal to be off Sub COMPLETELY for 6 days and still not be able to even feel a Percocet? Not that I plan on taking Percs long term or anything. I ONLY have Like 6 left, & wanted to take them to Help with my depression during my Sub detox. I wanted relief from my depression, even if only temporarily.
I called the detox I was at before- which I cant go to now with no Insurance-- but they did tell me that by the 10th day- the worst of everything will definitely be over, as well as a full length Sub detox will also be over--which is only 4 more days. They only keep people there 10 days max. Most people they only keep for 5-7 days for Sub detox. And it's a good & reputable detox facility-it's called Sunrise. It's in FL & NJ. The difference is the "comfort meds" they provide. The last 2mg dose of Sub is usually given a day or two before release, so the Sub surely can't be anywhere near out of the system at discharge date- yet I never felt bad after being detoxed off of a Sub at that place. Ever. I just had no compelling reason not to take it anymore & a big enough stash- so I took it. Not because I was feeling physically bad. I'm not feeling physically bad AT ALL now, either.
The true problem, in my opinion, is the addictive thinking and cravings-along with the ability to gain access to Sub- is what ultimately cause people to give in & take more Sub even if they feel physically fine. The long term prognosis for staying off of drugs long term without Sub is very bad, in my opinion. Sure- I can probably suffer through & manage to stay off while the heat is on of having to be able to pass a drug test to get a job- but-- once the pressure to pass a drug test is off- it's highly unlikely that I'll stay clean from all drugs for any length of time. I wouldn't be getting off Sub now, either, if I didn't absolutely have to.
I feel like I need to get rid of my Subs because the cravings for them or any other drugs are so strong and I'm depressed and bored with zero motivation, but, not because I'm physically ill. I have the physical ability to do anything, but the mentally ability to do absolutely nothing. I feel totally "flat" mentally. There's also nothing anyone can do with no money!! I also have anxiety, but honestly, the anxiety I have has only to do with my employment situation- which I had even while taking Subs, and I will continue to have it until I get a decent job. It has nothing at ALL to do with detoxing from Subs. It's no worse now than it was while taking Subs.
If--just IF-- I am over the worst part of the Sub "detox"-- I have to say it was completely painless (except for restless legs on Wednesday night). But, since Sub is still blocking opiates-- not sure if I am even CLOSE to being done detoxing- even in 4 more days. Then I have to worry about PAWS & getting my brain to be able to function without being on something enough so to function in life. I'm on NOTHING at all right now.
As for an at home Sub drug test- I would need it right away, so ordering on line won't work. I have to call that job back by Monday or Tuesday at the latest- if it's already not too late-- which it probably is--and pass a drug test by Wednesday. Not sure if that will even be an option. I'm pretty sure one 5mg Perc that I took this morning will be out by Wednesday- but I'm still doubtful about the Sub being out since it's still blocking opiates as of today---day 6 of being completely off of about 2-6 mg. not sure exactly how many mg since I was breaking by hand & took extra some days. I know the last two days I only took 2mg, though, because I cut them with a pill cutter & didn't take extra.
Although Sub is extremely helpful and doesn't cause addictive "behavior", per se, it surely is mind altering and causes physical dependence- which means going without is difficult, and going off of it abruptly-or after a taper--can most definitely cause addictive drug seeking behavior the same as getting off opiates does. If it wasn't mind-alerting, no one would be on this site reading about it, & how to get off of it. And it's viewed by society as an "evil" drug-- so, it's a problem being on it-unless you have a doc & a legal script- which is inaccessible to most people who need it. Only a lucky few can get it at a reasonable price, and even they often have trouble finding a Sub doc. So, if I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now, I would not have ever gotten on Sub. because it's harder to be off knowing how much it helped. Just knowing that there is in fact a drug that helps, and that doesn't ruin my life if taken with a prescription, and that I just can't take it because I can't afford it-- is worse than never having taken it to begin with. Just like I find it extremely difficult to be poor after having money and a great life, financially. Like they say- it's easier having never had money than having had money & lost it. Same about Sub.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-28-2014, 02:43 PM   #17
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Oh- I also heard back from a different job I interviewed for the same day I interviewed with Aetna-- I didn't get an offer, but I was told I'm one of three still in the mix. They never mentioned a drug test- at all- in the ad or in person- so even if they give me one, I would not be likely to believe Sub would be included that test. I need to not take anymore Percs though, just in case. The job isn't quite as good as the one with Aetna, but I'd be very happy for it.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-28-2014, 04:44 PM   #18
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, there probably is some bupe left blocking it. I would not expect it to be out of your system after 6 days off. Especially if you were taking '2 to 6mg'. Do you know how much you were taking for the 7 days prior to stopping? I was basing the halflife elimination on your taking 2mg consistently for a week or more.

When someone starts bupe for addiction, they are already physically dependent on opiates and that continues with the bupe. That is why stopping abruptly is not recommended at all. Especially when the patient doesn't want to stop, doesn't have enough tools to handle cravings or withdrawals and didn't change anything about their lives while they were taking bupe. That's why therapy is highly recommended as part of the treatment.

Get rid of the percocet. They can only hurt you because those will likely show up in a drug test if you keep taking them.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-28-2014, 05:21 PM   #19
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
I have no idea exactly how much I took the week before. Never a whole one, but some days I probably took extra. Obviously a lot more than 2mg. Yes, that's what I was saying- coming off Subs is no different than coming off opiates if someone isn't ready. I know I'm not ready. I've been going to counseling for years, & NA, and I'm not even CLOSE to ready to get off. I know what I'm "supposed" to do, what I "should" do, but my brain needs chemicals, so none of it really seems effective. I'm depressed & miserable without drugs. Even Sub wasn't curing my depression, but, that's probably because I was taking lower doses, and not 8mg daily as I had been for years when it was helping it. I don't have enough to do that, anymore, because I got rid of a lot of what I had- probably almost a year's worth.
Do you think that's true that a detox from any dose at all, can be done in 10 days? Or, since I have too much Sub in my system is it just that I haven't experienced anything bad YET? But, will go through withdrawals next week? I'm hoping that this continues as it has been, but, I am beginning to think that's not the case. It just can't be this easy and symptom fee without any comfort meds, either. This just doesn't happen. I've been able to go without taking more because although I don't feel well mentally, I'm fine physically. If I get physical symptoms, I'm not sure I'll be able to remain off. Unless I throw it all out, which I just can't do even though it's one of the things I "should" do, as well as throw out my few Percs.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-28-2014 at 05:42 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-29-2014, 06:29 AM   #20
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, since you don't know how much you were taking when you stopped, you don't know how much bupe is in your system which means you don't know if you have 'too much Sub' in your system. But from your first post, it didn't seem like you were taking any more than 4mg a day at most? If that's the case, you likely would have had withdrawals 3 or 4 days after stopping. And since you didn't have much trouble the other times you stopped, maybe you're just one of those who doesn't have much in the way of WDs. There are people who have had little WDs when stopping. Someone here posted that they stopped at 8mg and after 15 days out, they were just tired at times and having vivid dreams. The worst they felt was around the 3rd day and that was stomach cramps, sweats and yawning.

Just curious, who at Aetna kept 'going on' about the drug testing? The other tests that you passed, were those done at a lab? Is there a chance that they are calling to let you know that you are still in the running like other company let you know? What if you told them you recently tapered off of bupe and there's a chance low levels may show up. For that you would not have to show them a prescription because you're no longer taking it.

Get rid of the percocet. You're setting yourself up to not pass any test if you take them.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to NancyB For This Useful Post:
Thank You (11-29-2014)
Unread 11-29-2014, 12:01 PM   #21
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Thanks Nancy.
Last night when I went to bed was the absolute worst. My whole BODY felt like I had SEVERE RLS. My arms even felt like it. I couldn't lay down, sit upright in a chair or even stand up without feeling extreme "nervousness" in every single muscle in my body. My body felt like it just HAD to keep moving because I couldn't stay still. I couldn't remain in one position without having to move for more than 30 seconds, tops. It was absolutely the most horrible withdrawals I have ever had. It was painful in a "nervousness" sort of way. I doubt anyone could understand it unless they've gone through it. It went on for about 3 hours and then I took one of the 2mg pieces of Sub I had cut with my cutter for my originally planned "taper". Even after I took that-- it took about 40 minutes for it to all stop so I could lay still to sleep.
I'm extremely disappointed in myself for taking Sub. It's both the reason why I didn't throw it out, as well as the same reason I should have thrown it out. I had RLS Wednesday night & was able to get through it without caving, and I'm now wondering whether or not all of that would have eventually stopped on it's own last night, as well, if I wouldn't have taken any. It was just so horrific. I probably looked like a lunatic, if anyone would have been watching me during that episode last night.
Now I have a major setback from my detox that was almost at the end, and I'm not sure how to proceed--whether I should do some sort of very short taper with skipping days and using 1mg pieces, or try to stay completely stopped from this point again.
I also don't feel as depressed today, and I feel better after only 2mg. I even have the motivation to clean up my house, which I've been mentally unable to do lately. But, I'm still depressed- just not as much. I know I just have to get used to that, though.

At Aetna it was listed in the job posting that they drug test, but, I was completely unaware that employers are now testing for Sub, so it didn't concern me. Then, they went over it and stressed the fact that they drug test at the in person interview. Still didn't think too much about it. But, when I was filling out the forms on line for my background check, which is also required-- it was during that process that it caught my attention. See below the policy, I copied & pasted it directly from the form:

"""""Aetna has a strong commitment to maintaining a work environment free from the harmful effects of drug abuse. We prohibit employees from selling, distributing, purchasing, consuming, possessing, being under the influence of illegal drugs or misusing legally prescribed drugs on company premises or while engaged in company business. In order to maintain required performance levels and ensure the safety of others, employees are expected to report to work free from the effects of drug abuse.
In keeping with Aetna's commitment to maintaining a safe, productive work environment, Aetna has established a pre-employment drug testing program. Except where prohibited by law, all job offers will be contingent upon an applicant's passing a urinalysis drug test. In the event test results indicate the use or presence of illegal drugs or the misuse or abuse of legal drugs at or above cutoff levels the company may designate from time to time in its sole discretion (except as such cutoff levels are established by law), the job offer will be withdrawn. In the event the applicant refuses to participate in the testing or fails to follow established testing procedures, the job offer also will be withdrawn. In addition, the applicant may not reapply for employment or work in any capacity, at any Aetna location, for six months from the date of the "Fail" determination. Test results will be kept strictly confidential.
Therefore, per Aetna's pre-employment drug test policy outlined above, any job offer you may receive from Aetna will be contingent upon your passing a urinalysis drug test before your start date. Additionally, your drug test must be scheduled and taken no later than two (2) business days from the date you verbally accept Aetna's offer of employment.
Instructions for Applicants Who Accept an Offer
Immediately after accepting Aetna's offer of employment, call General Information Services, Inc. National Scheduling Center at (866) 339- to schedule your pre-employment urinalysis drug test. The National Scheduling Center is open Monday - Friday, 8:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. EST. To guarantee that you can complete the pre-employment drug test within the timeframe described above, you must call the National Scheduling Center as soon as you accept the job offer.
Any job offer you may receive will be withdrawn if you:
Refuse to take the drug test
Fail to schedule and complete your drug test within two business days from the date you verbally accepted the job offer
Otherwise fail to comply with Aetna's pre-employment drug test procedures
Have a drug test result determination of "fail"

When you call to schedule a urine drug screen collection, please:
Identify yourself as an applicant for Aetna needing a pre-employment urine drug screen
Provide your full name, social security number, zip code, daytime phone including area code and second phone number, if available, and the date you verbally accepted Aetna's offer of employment.

A collection site will be located for you using the zip code you provide. The National Scheduling Center will search in a 20-mile radius of the zip code used to locate a collection site. The collection process follows a strict regimen called a "chain of custody" procedure.
General Information Services' Scheduling Center will provide you with any necessary documentation you may need to bring with you to the drug test location on the day of your test.

When you arrive at the collection site you will be asked to:
Sign in. Once you sign in at the collection site, you must stay for the duration of the test. If you leave the collection site before you you fully complete the test, Aetna will view it as a refusal to test, and your job offer will be rescinded.
Produce a photo ID (such as a State Driver's License) for identification purposes
Sign the Aetna chain of custody form
Provide a urine sample, following specific guidelines designed to ensure the integrity of the test result
If the test indicates the presence of drugs, a physician will contact you

If you have any problems or questions while at the collection site, DO NOT LEAVE the collection site. Call the National Scheduling Center at (866) 339- immediately for assistance in resolving your situation.
Authorization InformationBy entering my electronic signature below, I confirm that I have read, understand, and acknowledge the Aetna Drug Testing Policy.Electronic Signature (Enter your Full Name) today's date11/20/2014 Pre-Employment Drug Testing Pre-Employment Drug Testing
For additional instructions on completing the online application, click HERE
I hereby authorize Aetna, through its designated representatives, to test my urine for drugs. I understand that any job offer I may receive from Aetna will be contingent upon my timely passing of a pre-employment urinalysis drug test before I start my new job. I understand that this test must be scheduled and taken no later than two business days from the date I verbally accept the offer. I understand and agree that Aetna will use the results of the drug test only to determine my fitness for employment with Aetna and that the test results will be kept confidential.
I also understand and agree that I will provide a suitable urine specimen at a local facility designated by Aetna and that the specimen will be sent to a designated laboratory for drug testing. I understand that the designated laboratory is an independent, licensed and certified toxicology laboratory and is solely responsible for the accuracy of the test results.
I authorize the designated laboratory to release the laboratory test report to Aetna's designated Medical Review Officer, for the purpose of assessing the results. I authorize the Medical Review Officer to communicate my fitness for employment to my hiring supervisor or another designated Aetna employee or agent involved in the hiring process. In the event the Medical Review Officer determines that I have failed to comply with testing procedures or that the test results indicate the use of illegal drugs or the misuse of legal drugs at or above predetermined cutoff levels, I understand and agree that Aetna or its agent shall withdraw any job offer that I may have received and that I will not be eligible to reapply or work at Aetna in any capacity for at least six months."""""""""


There you have it. No doubt in my mind they most definitely test for Sub. That is what I meant by they "went on and on about it". Like I said-- they most likely have contracted rates and pay next to nothing for these drug tests to be completed. Even if they didn't--Aetna can afford to pay for all inclusive top of the line drug tests without a contracted rate. I can't imagine them NOT including Sub. So, I just lost this job that I needed to survive because I didn't stay off of Subs as I was supposed to. It took me SEVEN MONTHS to find a job that at least pays a living wage. I most definitely do NOT have another seven months! I have two months- or else I will be FLAT BROKE, without 1$ to my name. Literally. I will lose my house and cats and be totally destitute with nowhere to go. Well- I guess I'd still have 3 months extra before the bank would take my house, but still. I couldn't live like that.

Two of the recent pre-employment drug tests I took were urine 5 panel- done on site with instant results of pass or fail. The third one was a 10 panel saliva test sent to a lab. Those were all for bottom of the barrel low paying jobs.

The other job I interviewed for the same day as Aetna e-mailed me to let me know that they have narrowed it down to 3 candidates and that they will be hiring one of those three, and that I'm one of those three being considered. I will know next week if I got that job or not. There was no mention of any drug tests either in the job posting or at the interview. It wasn't "stressed" as a condition of employment. That doesn't mean they don't test-- they very well may. But, I wouldn't tend to believe that this company would test for Sub. It's also not as good of a job as the one at Aetna--It's a step above a bottom of the barrel crap job, though. I could at the very least "survive".

I do think if I told Aetna that I just tapered off of Sub that they would most definitely want to see my "former prescription", then, which I don't have. I can't take the last legal script I had from 2012. I believe it would be too late to call them back, anyway-- even if I could pass the test. They called me 3X Monday & Tuesday of last week & also sent me an e-mail to call them back about the job.

I'm in quite a predicament. I'm not even applying to more jobs until I get off Sub now that I'm aware of employers testing for it. If I had known that before-- I'm sure I would have stayed off of it-- at least until I got a job.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-29-2014 at 12:28 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-29-2014, 02:23 PM   #22
nan
Senior Member
 
nan's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,398
Default

MicheleJ, I promise I will not continue to harp on this so this will be my last comment onyour situation re: Aetna. IMO they put all that in there to "scare" away folks who are misusing medications. You have nothing at all to lose by taking the drug test-the absolute worse that could happen is the dr would contact you, if they even check for sub, which I doubt, and you would just name the dr you got your prescription from. The company also heavily emphasizes the "level" of the medication that shows up.With the small amount of sub you have been taking I am sure there would be no problem. So? You don't pass, then you will have to wait for 6 months. So? Same thing as not accepting the job and staying at your stress level conjuring all the what-ifs, losing your house, etc etc. The fear of the unknown can really burden one's mind. I think you would really be remiss not to call Aetna back. If you accept the job, and fail the test, then you could complain. But now you are just plain psyching your self out needlessly, just IMO. What if you take the test and pass? You do not know you will fail, no one knows what they test for, or for what levels. I don't care how much money Aetna has that does not mean they even test for sub. You are working yourself up and that in itself is not healthy for you. You have nothing to lose by trying, and,it sounds like, you will have a lot to lose if you don't at least try. I wish you well and hope you will give the company a call back. It could be the big break you need right now. Please try.

nan
nan is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to nan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (11-29-2014), Thank You (11-29-2014)
Unread 11-30-2014, 01:14 PM   #23
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

I was a total mess. Beyond depressed, and actually almost suicidal from trying to get off of Subs, and I could also feel physical withdrawals coming on again, so I started back on Subs again today. So stupid I was to think I could taper off on my own. I signed up for Dr. Match this morning- and received 2 responses--one for $350 for first visit. $200 thereafter every other week. I NEVER got responses so quickly when I put down that I expected to actually use medical insurance--and the day is young-- who knows how many more responses from sleezy doctors I'll get.
Since I can't get off of Sub on my own, this is the next best thing. Maybe I'll even be able to have a doc do a taper plan with comfort meds. I have to get a job- insurance- and then go to detox. It's the only way. I won't actually be filling my scripts- because I can't afford to (don't know why this never occurred to me before). But at least I'll have a legal script so I can pass a drug test so I can I get a job. Wish I would have thought if this idea last week. It's cutting into my entire life savings- but I have to do it because I can't get off Sub on my own, and can't get a job & insurance without a script from a sleezy cash-only Sub doctor.
If I ever get off of Subs successfully again-- I am 100% certain that I will never, ever go back again.
If I can get an appt for tomorrow- I'll call Aetna back and hope for the best. If not, at least I don't have to worry about passing drug tests. I'm living on borrowed time anyway, as far as finances are concerned.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-01-2014, 05:57 AM   #24
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, it looks like jumping from 2mg was a bit too much for you to jump from. When you're ready to try again, go more slowly. Going too fast and having that pressure to be off of them for drug screen purposes was not a good combination. When you get a job, it could be easier for you to taper off because that pressure won't be there. Unless you think the only way for you to stop is going to detox. But think about that when the time comes. You've been there, done that and you're back taking Suboxone again. Maybe a long, slow taper with some psycho-social support would be a better way for you. You could look into an out-patient addiction program for professional support along with NA. Or perhaps you could find a depression support group. It's your depression that always seems to drive you back. Just some thoughts.

Good luck today with both Aetna and finding a doctor.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to NancyB For This Useful Post:
Thank You (12-01-2014)
Unread 12-02-2014, 06:43 AM   #25
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, just curious to know if you called Aetna back yesterday and what they had to say. Let us know when you have a minute.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2014, 01:03 PM   #26
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
No. I was too scared to call Aetna back. I would rather be able to re-apply than risk failing a drug test. I would never get hired, then, even though they say I could apply again in 6 months. I'm sure I'd be flagged, or something. I may still be flagged for not calling back, too. Who knows?
I got about 8 responses from cash only Sub docs through the matching system. All pricey. Cheapest one was $300 & then $75 per week after- for about 3 weeks- then monthly. I spoke to another doc & told him I really just want to taper off, and I was told that in order for him to do a taper program, that I would have to stay on Subs for 4 months minimum, first. What a racket. Clearly not interested in what is in the best interest of the patient! Can you imagine? Anyway, I couldn't afford to do that. So, I did some more calling around.
I found out that my county provides funding for detox/rehab. I have to apply and be approved by them, though, first. From what I heard., I should get it. I told them the truth. I'm in a catch 22-- I don't qualify for ACA Marketplace insurance because I don't have income, yet I also don't qualify for Medicaid because I have assets-- a few lousy bucks in CD's, I thought the ACA was designed to prevent such issues. Anyway- this county funded program is for people with no insurance, who also don't qualify for Medicaid., and I was told I SHOULD qualify. I'm actually here now doing all of the required leg-work. My assessment confirmed that I need detox & inpatient treatment. I didn't mention that I've been through this before- though, because I was afraid I'd be denied.i don't think they can find out. & I'm sure the state funded rehabs will not be any of the ones I went to before- they won't be nearly as nice as the ones who only take insurance.
I'm PRAYING that I will get approved. They told me I would be.I feel like I must tackle getting off of Subs so I can move on with my life. I am technically taking them illegally, and nothing good will come from that.
I know I have to be extremely concerned about my depression and anxiety, and doing everything I can to prevent relapsing on opiates- or benzos. That would be far more disastrous than taking my Subs. I also will dispose of my Sub stash, just in case. To prevent temptation. This is my LAST SHOT at getting off through a detox, and I can NOT fail. I WON'T fail. I will never forget how bad I felt the other night on day 6 & 1/2. It was horrible. And the depression-- Unspeakable. The time has come for me to get off for good. I also really feel like I need help because I am an emotional mess. Filled with anxiety & depression- in addition to needing to get off Subs.
I will know for sure tomorrow or Wednesday if I am definitely approved the funding.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2014, 02:29 PM   #27
maxxx
Member
 
Posts: 97
Default Must do Speedy Sub Taper-

Michelle, read your intire thread.. im wondering to myself just How are you going to stay off of opiates and benzos with your addiction and depression issues?
maxxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2014, 07:12 PM   #28
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, I thought you were working at a call center? Or did something happen since you mentioned it last Monday? Wouldn't that count as employment to enable you to get ACA insurance? I mean, you're working, making minimum wage, that ought to count, no?

Do you know anything about the rehab/detox you may get approved for - how long is it for? If it's just for detox, they better have some aftercare you can take advantage of because of your depression and because you're already concerned about relapsing. Just make sure you're open and honest about that.

Keep us posted on if you get approved.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2014, 08:33 PM   #29
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
I was working at the call center, but after training-which was very poor- I actually didn't pass the "final exam"-- and really had no clue what I was doing, anyway-- even if I would have passed. Only 10 out of 27 people in the class actually made it. So, I'm unemployed, again. There were about 12 computer systems-- and it was all about Medicare A, B,--etc.. as well as Medicare advantage. It was a lot of stuff crammed into a short training class. Plus I'm under so much stress that it affects my ability to concentrate.
That job was the income my ACA application was based on- my projected earnings for 2015 were based on what I had earned within the past month. As per the county funding for this detox/rehab, I had no choice but to go to the welfare office today & apply in person because I couldn't proceed with county funding for that program with out at least applying, and I had to take a form staying that I applied. I already know I'm not approved because I have a small amount of money in CD's, but it's too much to qualify for welfare. They even said so at the place I went to for detox today. But it's a formality to go in person and apply. I applied today based on no income, so, we'll see what happens. Maybe that may make a difference.
I will be sure to let them know of my relapse concerns when the time is right. IF I even get in, for sure. I should know tomorrow. I don't have the luxury of another relapse.
Maxxx, you asked a good question. Recovery will not be easy--I'm sure. However, I really don't believe I've ever "hit bottom" until now and I want a normal life again at all costs. Remembering the sheer desperation that I feel right now will hopefully help. I am at the lowest of low points in all my life. I've never been lower than I am right now, and I'm down so incredibly low that I don't even know if I can dig myself out at this point. And I have to begin to be able to accept that fact and deal with it in a productive manner if I can't.
This time just two short years ago, I was gainfully employed long term in a professional and well paying position. Thought I hated it, but oh no-- I did not know what the meaning of hating a job was until recently- working at minimum wage dead end jobs. There's nothing I wouldn't do to have my old life back. I had plenty $$$ in the bank, insurance, just bought a home-- on my own-- but I thought I was miserable. But, no, I was not. I was really just unappreciative of my blessings and took everything totally for granted and was ungrateful. I did not truly know what the meaning of miserable was until the past 2-3 months.
I used to treat going to up-scale rehabs as "vacations". I went to rehab in Miami, & Ft. Lauderdale, and made a vacation out of it. I often stayed extra days after I got out-- or after I left AMA- I've also been to 3 rehabs in my own state.-I thought I wanted to stop- but really I always had reservations. Although I realized I was an addict-- I really didn't believe that drugs were causing me too much harm in my life because I was still maintaing my lifestyle, spending un-wisely and oblivious to the reality that I may not actually be able to replace the money. Put off really starting a job search way, way too long--,and stupidly assumed that once I was ready to get serious and get back to work--that surely I would fund a job with relative ease. Boy was I wrong!!
I wasted 2 years in and out of "vacation rehabs", and detoxes. If I got too screwed up-I just picked up the phone, made a call, and off I went to detox or rehab--Nice ones. And here it is- almost 2 years to the date of when this all started--and I'm far, far worse than I ever was 2 years ago. I now have only a few bucks left to my name, was forced to work minimum wage crap jobs because that's all I could get, having terrible time finding a job. Finally found a living wage job with Aetna & was terrified of the drug test due to taking Subs without a legal script-- so lost that job.
No one takes me seriously when it comes to recovery. I'm living a lie, I'm overwhelmed with depression & anxiety, and things are SOOOOO incredibly bad that I dread waking up every single day to the nightmare that is my life-- living hell on earth. Alone and poor. Facing losing all I have and homelessness if I don't get a job soon. Damaged relationships because I'm not farther along in my recovery. Severely physically dependent on Subs. No insurance to go to doc to get antidepressant meds for long term. No ability to seek therapy. It's really very bad. Hopefully just remembering the sheer rock bottom desperation that I feel now will help me to remain in recovery. I've been feeling really bad for a few months, but I have to say the situation with Aetna is what really sealed my realization that I'm at rock bottom.
Today I went to beg for a county funded program to go to detox, and outright lied to the lady & told her I had never been to an inpatient drug rehab before, ever, because I am SOOOO afraid of not being approved because if she knew of even HALF of the number of rehabs I've been to within the past 2 years-- she wouldn't even CONSIDER county approval for funding me. I'm terrified she's going to find out I lied-and that I won't be able to go. If for some reason they may use one of the rehabs I've been to in my state--I'll be found out. I just assumed that that wouldn't be an issue until I really thought about it, after the fact. Anything is possible-they could have a contract for special rates anywhere--really. I don't think it's likely that the upscale rehabs deal in charity, but I really have no clue, and anything is possible. And I'm used to things getting worse & worse every single day-so it wouldn't be a shocker if I was found out & caught in my lie. It would be par for the course that my life is on now, and I don't know what I would even do if I don't get approved for this.
I am also completely DREADING going to rehab-again-- if I even get approved. The humiliation of the mere fact that I would even be going to detox/rehab again is too much. It'll probably be a sh** place. But, I feel like I need this to save my life. I need help, badly, in general. Not only just to get off Subs- although of course that is HUGE. I need help in handling this depression & anxiety. I need human "support". I need therapy, and probably medication, like antidepressants. I honestly feel like if I don't get approved for this-- that I won't make it. And I'm really hopeful that the memories alone, of this point in time in my life will serve as a strong recovery tool in the future.
I have so much anxiety now-- fearing if I don't get in. Worrying about how I'm even going to tell people I'm going, again. Worrying that the place is going to suck. Worrying about money. It's the holidays, and this would be the 2nd Christmas in a row I would be in rehab-- only I'm far, far worse off than I was last year this time. Yet- I don't think I could handle being in my house every day until I get a job- which I can't even do until I'm off Subs-- AHHHHHH!! It's EVERYTHING!!! My mind can't stop racing with fear. This truly is hell on earth.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2014, 06:27 AM   #30
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, ah, ok. Thanks for explaining about the job. Have you seen this site? It has information on low-cost/no-cost clinics in each state. Both medical and dental and there are counseling centers in the list also - depending on where you live.
http://www.needymeds.org/inclusions/...ics_branch.htm

The other thing would be to try calling 211. It's a resource/referral line in each state. Usually run by the United Way. They may know of things that could be helpful to you also.

Have you ever taken Valerian root? For some people, it helps with anxiety as well as sleep. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Let us know what you hear - hopefully today.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2014, 06:38 PM   #31
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
Thank you for the website. I actually checked it out the last time you posted it, and all that came up is Planned Parenthood, other women's services and a CHIP's program. I even played around with other zip codes in the region--but nothing.
Iv'e not heard of 211, but if this doesn't work out with the county program, I'll call. But--this is all the county has as far as drug treatment for people with no insurance. I doubt I'd get any different results just by calling different places. Every other single place I called always lead me right back to this county program. They are in control of whether or not I can go.
Today I called the girl back, and she said that before anything, Welfare needed actual proof of my bank account & CD's. So I took care of that and now have to wait until tomorrow to hear back from her again. She said I would get this treatment whether or not I qualified for a Welfare--but it's just a formality that must be gone through, first.
I'm still terrified that they will find out I've been to rehab before and deny me, and-- you know me---I had to go digging around to see exactly which rehabs they use. Sure enough, 2 rehabs that I left from AMA sometime within the past 2 years are on the list of ones they use. I guess I could say that since I left AMA, I really haven't completed treatment. Doubt it would work, though.
Other than finding out that way, by sending me somewhere I've already been to, I don't see how else they could find out where all I've been, with HIPAA, and all. I wonder if a rehab could in fact even tell them if I had been there before. It's the government, so, I'm sure privacy laws are not relevant to them. I just can't help worrying. Now this is what I'm focusing on worrying about. I know it serves no purpose, but I can't help it. I'm sure tomorrow it will be something else that I need to do, and I still won't know what's going on. It's not that I'm not grateful that I have this chance, because I am. I just can't take the anxiety of not knowing if I'll be able to go for sure, or not. I feel sort of like the "Little boy who cried wolf". I hope that even if they don't send me to rehab that they'll at least send me to detox. I feel that I can't move on with my life until I get help--help getting off Subs, and help for depression. I can't do anything completely by myself, with no money or insurance. The few bucks I have left I need to keep a roof over my head until I get a job. I only have enough for a couple of months--then I will be completely penniless.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-03-2014 at 06:50 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 11:00 AM   #32
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi, it's me again.
Please realize that this site is my only outlet right now to talk about what's going on in my life. There is not one person in real life I can discuss any of this with. That's why I've been on here so frequently lately.
I spoke to the woman in charge of the county funded detox/rehab program this morning. She said she's just waiting on an e-mail from someone at Welfare- which she should receive within about 2 to 3 hours, and that I could be in a place as soon as today or tomorrow. I told her I would go pack, then, and she told me to definitely do that, as well as what to pack and what not to. I feel like help is close. Although until I am actually on my way, and not caught in my lie, I will continue to worry about it. If this doesn't happen I truly feel like I won't make it.
It's going to be hard, this whole recovery thing. But, I know that if I'm to get my life back at all, I must learn to deal with handing depression without using drugs, since legal long term Sub treatment, at an effective dose, is not an option for me anymore. Anything has to be better than where I'm at now. I feel completely desperate and willing to do anything I'm told to do in order to feel better and live life again.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 12:08 PM   #33
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

I just heard back from the lady again. I was told to pack my bag, and show up at the office tomorrow morning at 9:00am, and that I will be able to go directly to treatment somewhere, from there. I have someone available to drive me-- so that will also help in locating a place with availability. I even asked her-- "Are you sure? Can I tell people I'm definitely going", and she said "Yes".
I have never, ever felt such a sense of relief before in my entire life, and I truly feel as if this is my LAST chance save myself. I have NEVER, EVER wanted anything more than I want help right now.
If I am able to get in somewhere, I will most definitely not take it for granted-- even if it's the crappiest place on earth, which it probably will be-- and I will do absolutely anything and everything they tell me I should do--even if they say I need to live in a halfway or recovery house for months afterward. I am just so incredibly grateful for the opportunity. You have no idea.
There is nothing that could be even close to as bad as where I'm am at now, and where I would be headed if I don't get help.
I just have to pack, now, & let people know I'm going. I don't even care what they will think of me at this point. Well- I do, of course, but, I can't worry about it. I need to save my life.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to MicheleJ For This Useful Post:
Thank You (12-04-2014)
Unread 12-04-2014, 01:32 PM   #34
maxxx
Member
 
Posts: 97
Default Must do Speedy Sub Taper-

God bless you M,
You fight the good fight now. Life will get better for you. It may not be perfect ,but
you can be successful.
e as open minded as possible, take it all in one day at a time.
Theres nothing like being with other addicts in recovery to help yourself and one an other. To get out of
ones own head and problems. And to lead a hand in others recovery. You can do this .
Not sure now old you are, but you have your whole life in front of you. Years...

just wanted to say best of luck and work hard...

come back one day and lets us know how you are....peace


maxxx
maxxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #35
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Good luck Michele! Did they say how long you'll be gone?

Most importantly, you're going in with the right attitude. It may not be as nice as some of the ones you've been to, but you could be surprised by the quality of care instead. I hope so anyways. Like maxxx said, check in when you get back.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 03:16 PM   #36
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Maxxx & Nancy,
Thank you so much for the well wishes.
I'm 45. Way too old for all of this. I should not be in such a situation at my age. It's a huge embarrassment & disgrace. I just wish I would have realized that addiction was in fact ruining my life before I got to this point, and before I felt as fearful, depressed, desperate and hopeless as I feel now. And also before I was as BROKE as I am, now too!
You are right-- just being around others who are fighting the same fight would be a huge help. In addition, it's the "holiday season", which adds to my depression in itself.
I just have to get through the next 18 or so hours, now, until I can really find out for 100% certain if I'll be able to go tomorrow, or not. It's quite possible they may not be able to find a bed for me tomorrow. They don't even call anyplace until people actually show up at the office ready to go, & she said they only send people first thing in the morning. Like I said-- until I'm actually on my way, I won't believe it.
They said I was approved for for a 28-30 day inpatient detox & rehab- & they just have to find a place for me. I don't care if it's the shittiest of shitholes on the entire planet. I am just SOOOO incredibly happy that I even have this opportunity, and I very desperately need help, and no place or situation could be even HALF as bad as the way I feel now, & how much I dread waking up every morning. This is most definitely also my very last chance, I believe.
There is no county funding for multiple trips to treatment. The woman told me that the county will only pay for any person 2 times--MAX-- in any 7 year period, no matter what the circumstances are. If someone leaves AMA- that still counts as one of the two times. That's the main reason I lied & said I'd never been to inpatient treatment before. I was scared that she wouldn't think I was deserving of the opportunity to go to treatment since I fu***d up so many times before. And I do believe that I need this to save my life.
Living in a recovery house or halfway house after getting out is actually what I think I really need, too-even though I doubt I'd like it much. I keep thinking to myself that if I had only followed that advice last year when it was recommended, that I would not be in this situation right now. I simply can NOT do this alone, and NEVER want to feel this way again.
If I don't post tomorrow, you'll know I was able to go. If I do go, I will come back and provide an update in the future. I may go periods of time away from this site, but I always end up returning. There are such good people here, and Nancy- you are the best. Thank you for always being so supportive and helpful no matter what.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 07:56 PM   #37
Sam Bailey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,630
Default

Hi Michele,

Excellent news. Delighted for you. This is YOUR time, Michele. Just wasn't your time last year. Or the year before that. Or before that.

Now it is.

Like you, I was lost in some kind of delusion for such a long, long time. A delusion, I guess, that "eating" 75-80 pills a day was somehow not, like, that bigga deal. Ha! That it would not harm me, that it would not harm my family---that I would, somehow, be just fine.

Someday I'll stop...sez I. That "someday" lasted 25-something years.

45 years old, you say? Why, just a kid you are, compared to my age when my own delusion finally revealed itself.

But then, it is what it is. Right? Reckon it just wasn't MY time, until it was my time.

Get packed and come tomorrow early morn, go to that office with every expectation that you will go to some Recovery Joint. Then go with the knowledge that, well---that it really is your time.

Now.

best to you,

sam b
Sam Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #38
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi again Sam Bailey,
I just finished with laundry & am about to go & pack so I can get up tomorrow and go first thing to see about going to treatment to get all of the help I can get-- and that I desperately need.
Thanks again for your kind words & encouragement. It is much appreciated.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-04-2014 at 08:19 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 06:12 AM   #39
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, no offense, but I really hope we don't hear from you for a month! Fingers crossed you'll be in rehab today.

If that's the case, can't wait to hear from the healthier, happier Michele in the New Year.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 08:47 PM   #40
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

No offense taken, Nancy. I'm well aware that I sound like a complete lunatic lately. I just can't help it, though, because right now I am truly going crazy.
Obviously, since I'm posting, things did not go as planned today. I was officially approved for the County funding, and was told I'll DEFINITELY be able to go. But, I can't get in anywhere until at least next week.
I showed up this morning first thing at 9am.There were 3 other people there, too--all coming off of heroin-- who were also being placed through the County funded program. By noon, all three of them had somewhere to go.
The County has a limited amount of facilities that they are contracted with, and only certain ones out of those are equipped to handle Suboxone detox. The lady actually told me that it was "much more difficult" for her to find a place for me than for the heroin addicts.
Furthermore-- since I revealed during my intake assessment that I was severely depressed during my attempt to detox myself off, that also put me into the category of a "dual diagnosis" patient- which complicated matters even worse, because she said I also need to have psychiatric help available to me if I need it.
Who on earth wouldn't be depressed when coming off Subs? That's normal. I don't see how that in itself makes someone a "dual diagnosis".
In the end, I was told that there is only one facility that "the state would feel comfortable sending me to", but they don't have any beds available right now. So, I'm on a waiting list and estimated to get in between Tuesday and Thursday of next week. Possibly sooner if an opening comes up.
I'm extremely grateful that I definitely have a place to go to, but now I'm also really scared.
The lady kept telling me how "difficult" detoxing off of Sub is, (like I don't already know that!) and that a lot of places don't do Sub detox because of the "risk", and "liability" involved, and how they need to have "adequate medical staff" to prescribe "specific medications". She mentioned "Clonodine and Librium"--for "the shakes", and told me I'd be "very sick and vomiting". So now I'm just plain TERRIFIED!!
Other than that one hospital I went to for detox in FL- where they cut me off cold turkey--I've never had any real issues getting off at any of the other places.
I mean really-- if I had insurance-- I could have been in a decent detox within an hour. Sub detox is not that hard to find, and she really scared me saying all that stuff. I now fear that this place they are sending me to won't know what they're doing--just like that hospital in FL had no clue about detoxing people off if Sub.
I Googled & then called the place they're sending me to hear more about it as well as to confirm that I'm on the wait list. The woman I spoke to was actually very pleasant, and on the surface, the place "sounds" okay. It's most definitely not going to be "nice"--far from it--- but, I had "nice" before & blew it.
She was unable to let me know if they plan to cut me off cold turkey, or not, & told me that would be a "medical question" that "only a doctor could answer". So-- it's not even guaranteed that medically assisted detox is available- but, since they need all of these "adequate doctors" to prescribe all these "special meds"-- I can't imagine that they don't at least offer some sort of medical detox.
I know I have a very long and extremely hard fight ahead of me. It's not even just detoxing off of Subs that I have to deal with--there is so much more in addition to that.
It also doesn't really matter what the place is going to be like-- because it's the ONLY option that I have. And I am EXTREMELY grateful for it. You have no idea! No matter how bad the detox process itself will be- it can't be half as bad as attempting to do it alone.
I'm actually glad it's a dual diagnosis place, too, because now I'll also be able to "officially" get help for my depression & anxiety, and not just get help for the depression & anxiety that are solely related to detoxing. So really, this place could be a blessing in disguise.
Whatever the place is, I just need to make the most of it.
I just hope nothing happens to prevent me from going!! I won't really believe it's a sure thing until I'm actually there.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-05-2014 at 08:52 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2014, 09:55 PM   #41
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, sorry that you couldn't get in today, but it's probably better that you wait until you're in a place that has the capacity to treat dual diagnosis. But I have some reservations. You have said the only time you felt well and not depressed was when you were taking Suboxone. I think you need to tell them that you suffer from depression and it's not completely getting off of Suboxone related. That will help them in getting a proper after-care program for you too that would include help for depression in general. Or perhaps they could start you on an anti-depressant while you're there.

As for how difficult they are saying it is, there are too many variables for you to start projecting. You don't know if the people were taking 8mg, 16mg or what. You don't know if they were taking any other medications, like benzos, that would exacerbate the problem. You don't know if they have a low tolerance for discomfort. People would be very sick and vomiting going cold turkey off of any opiate. That is not exclusive to bupe.

How much have you been taking lately? Whatever it is, cut it in half until you go. Please just remember the other times you didn't have a problem getting off. And get down as low as you can before you go and that will make it easier. Remember, you just recently made it 6 days without taking any. You said what drove you to take some bupe was RLS. They will have comfort meds for that in the rehab.

But please, make sure you tell them your history of depression. They will be able to better treat you when you go.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to NancyB For This Useful Post:
Thank You (12-07-2014)
Unread 12-06-2014, 03:02 PM   #42
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi-
Real quick--I called that place this morning to see if any openings became available--and since I have transportation--I'm able to go today. I'm getting ready to leave shortly.
I called & spoke to my mom & my son. To my absolute shock, they are both being fully supportive of me even though I told them I've been taking Sub again. I never in a million years expected this. I thought surely I would be disowned. This really helps me a lot.
I'm extremely relieved I can go--but still TERRIFIED of this place because I just don't know what, exactly, it even is--& just exactly how bad it's going to be. Even though it's not a "locked down" place, or anything, I assume it's only going to be a step above from a "prison enviornment". But--I'm currently living a life of HELL ON EARTH- so it can't be much worse than that. Anything is better than the way I feel now.
I won't be alone, and I'll have help. Not only to get off Sub--but help to be able to get my life back afterward.
If course I'm terrified that they won't do an effective Sub detox. Doesn't matter how I feel, though--because it's my ONLY option. This place actually provides Sub treatment to people as part as some of the programs they offer. Although that's reassuring-- it doesn't mean they'll know what they are doing.
Anyway--like I said--none of my worries really matter. It is what it is. I'm just so happy I'm on my way!
Have a great holiday season. I hope you don't hear from me until the New Year.
Thanks for listening to me during this lowest point in my life, too.
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-06-2014, 08:09 PM   #43
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, that is fabulous! Even though ou won't be reading this until the new year, sending good thoughts and wishes that you do well and come back stronger than ever!

May 2015 be a very good year for you!

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to NancyB For This Useful Post:
Thank You (12-07-2014)
Unread 12-08-2014, 04:52 PM   #44
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Well--
Things did not work out at ALL at that place they sent me. Not at ALLLLL!! I just got back home.
When I got there Saturday early evening, I told the admitting doctor I was referred there by the county program to get properly tapered off & go through Sub detox since I couldn't do it on my own. I told him I'd been on it 5 years--and also about my own previous unsuccessful taper I did, which included 6 days without taking any-and how I just need & want off of it. I also told him I wanted to go on antidepressants. He completely REFUSED. He told me he doesn't know if I'm depressed & would absolutely not prescribe any such thing as antidepressants for me. Or Neurotin, either.
The doctor told me he was going to put me on METHADONE, to taper me off of the Suboxone for a few days, starting Sunday--just as soon as my urine sample came back.
First of all- I told him he was crazy. (I didn't put it quite like that--but still--you get the gist). As far as I know, not only wouldn't that have been completely ineffective, it could also caused some really bad reaction, plus-- I don't need to get exposed to methadone. He also prescribed me Valium to take every four hours starting immediately.
I took 8 mg of Sub that morning, before I left. Bad withdrawals are still days away. I explained this to that idiot doctor. He refused to even listen to to my concerns, was EXTREMELY rude--asked me when I got my license to practice medicine, etc.... Looked way down on me & treated me with the most utter disrespect I've ever been treated with by anyone.
I went up to the floor to be admitted, & they took a urine sample. I explained my same concerns to the nurse, and also told her that I will REFUSE to take any Methadone. She put in for a review by someone else "higher up"-but that wouldn't happen until Monday--cuz it was the weekend. But, she did agree that was stupid.
Yesterday I was told they actually LOST my urine sample from Saturday night--& had to do another one. So I did. However, that one wasn't given by "correct protocol", so I had to do yet a third urine sample yesterday, as well.
Just given Valium & Catapress all day yesterday, & this morning- for no absolute reason--but I took it, of course.
Met with the lady in charge this morning, & she said that since this was already my third day there, & detox was only for "five days"--(Apparantely Saturday counted--so did yesterday with nothing done in regard to any of this) counting what would have been today-- I would have had only 3 days of a Sub taper--then sent to the "rehab" part. I wasn't too accepting of this protocol-but I said ok, I'd do it. At least try it. Also asked her if I could go on antidepressants. NOPE. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
THEN--I was told they sent my urine sample to the WRONG PLACE--& had to give yet a FOURTH ONE--this morning. So I did.
Are you ready for this?? They claim that there is NO Sub in my system. NOT A DROP!!! Therefore--they wanted to immediately get me out of detox and go to rehab. Can you even imagine!???? I got the hell out of there. Immediately.
I was not very nice after that last straw-- I have to say. I was actually pretty nasty to them.
They wanted me to sign papers that I was leaving AMA--even though I received ZERO medical care while I was there!!- And, even though they were telling me there was no reason I even needed medical treatment to begin with!!!
That urine test had to be wrong. Plus, I argued if THEY hadn't lost my first sample-- or even the second or third!!-- that this may not be the situation. There is no possible way on EARTH that there is NO Sub in my system. It's just not possible.
Even if I would have followed their "3 day taper"- by people who have no clue what they're doing, I doubt it would have worked.
Plus-- they kept telling me that no matter what, that I was going to continue to suffer the effects of getting off of Sub for months to come, and my brain could take up to 2 years to be normal again.
I KNOW Sub taper & detox can be done successfully by decent places. This was a state funded & state run shit- hole, you get what you pay for. I paid ZERO for this treatment, and I got ZERO treatment out of it. This was all for absolutely nothing-- all the time I spent last week--the past few days--all of it. I have no other options now.
I called the lady from county & told her what happened as soon as I got home. She was able to get in touch with the man who directly approves funding for these programs, & I have to call him on Wednesday to discuss what happened & see if he'll possibly approve a different place.
I'm sure he's going to go along with everything those idiots from that place tell him-- because as I was told today in regard to my urine test-"science doesn't lie". I'm sure there were a MILLION things wrong with that test. No doubt.
& I'm on my own, now. Back to living hell on earth with no hope.
There is NOO way there was ZERO Sub in my urine. Not possible.
And, what happened to all of this "dual diagnosis" care?!!
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-08-2014 at 05:21 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2014, 05:41 PM   #45
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

I did also ask them to do yet another urine test- which would have been the 5th one-- in the event of error (which there OBVIOUSLY WAS!! ).
They told me it was a "closed case"--because "SCIENCE doesn't lie".
__________________
MicheleJ
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2014, 06:20 PM   #46
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

If I would have stayed-- it would have meant jumping from 8mg- cold turkey. Which would have been way WORSE than when I tried to taper myself.
Plus-- I already had this exact same situation occur at a detox hospital before.
And the sheer fact they originally wanted to use METHADONE to taper me tells me that they have no clue what they're doing in regard to this.
They implied I was not being reasonable, at all--to expect that it's possible to taper & detox from Sub relatively painless with professional medical help. That's not true--THEY just don't know what they're doing--AT ALL. I KNOW it's possible--that's why inquired about all this to begin with.
I'm very upset about this.
Now I have more unbearable withdrawals to look forward to. I doubt I'll get past them.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-08-2014 at 06:33 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #47
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, yikes, sorry it wasn't a good place to be. You said you took 8mg the morning you went - which would be Saturday? What were you taking before that, were you still taking 2 or under or had you been taking 8mg for a while. Do you have any bupe left?

Try to stay as busy as you can so you're not sitting around thinking about withdrawals - our minds are very powerful and that could make them worse. I know you don't like to exercise, but try and do something each day, even a little.

Hopefully when you talk with the guy on Wednesday, they can get your right in somewhere else - you'll have stopped taking bupe for 4 days by then, so perhaps at that point, they can treat it opiate withdrawals from there instead of 'sub withdrawals' and give you the comfort meds you'll need.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2014, 07:41 PM   #48
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,

Is it possible for Methadone to HAVE possibly helped to eliminate Sub withdrawals? Or was I way off in my assumption that it was totally ineffective and wrong for him to have used Methadone? I thought Methadone is an opiate, & that Sub blocks it, & therefore it wouldn't have worked & possibly also may have caused bad things to happen.
Either way, though- they found "no trace" of Sub in my urine test, even though I took 8mg Friday & Saturday & know that's BEYOND absolutely impossible.
I know the mind is a powerful thing. It was physical withdrawal that made me cave in & end my taper. I was learning to handle the severe depression & lack of motivation to live life. But--,that, on top of that-- the physical withdrawal was what made it toooo much to handle--the severe restless body. Entire body.
Yes-- I still have some left. I don't want to take anymore, though. Unless I feel like death.
Of course I'm going to call the guy on Wednesday-- but I just know nothing is going to come from it.

Thanks.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-08-2014 at 08:05 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2014, 07:21 AM   #49
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 25,466
Default

Hi Michele, the only way it would have been possible for the methadone to get rid of bupe withdrawals is if they kept giving it to you as the bupe left your system. But then, you'd have to taper off of that and methadone has a longer halflife = around 24 hours. If that's how they do it, no wonder people have a horrible experience and they say it's so hard to detox people off of. Doing it that way, in my opinion, is nuts. It would not have caused bad things to happen though - it just wouldn't have done anything while it was being blocked and then, stopped the withdrawals. But when they stopped the methadone, the withdrawals would start, so what would be the point?

If you can, try not to take anything until you talk with that guy. Then you can tell him that you don't need to be detoxed because you're already in withdrawals and you need help with withdrawals and then rehab. That's why I had suggested cutting down or stopping the bupe before - so you'd be in withdrawals and they could treat the withdrawals with comfort meds, instead of some crazy detox method. Get some potassium and magnesium - that has helped people with RLS - so you can have it in case it starts.

What's done is done and try not to replay it in your mind. Be firm with the person tomorrow especially with just needing help with the withdrawals not some taper off.

Plus, again in my opinion, you only took 8mg for days, so it won't be like when you detoxed cold off of 8mg that you had been taking for years because the halflife hasn't built up too much.

Let us know how you're doing.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2014, 05:21 PM   #50
MicheleJ
Senior Member
 
MicheleJ's Avatar
 
Posts: 714
Default

Hi Nancy,
I really didn't think Methadone would have been effective. But-- even if it would have, since finding out the detox program was only for 5 days-MAX-, it sounds like it would have have only made matters far worse for me.
Although I said it didn't matter what type of place it was I was being sent to that it wouldn't affect me- that I'm desperate-- I truly meant that. But, the place itself did quite obviously affect me & the actual treatment I was seeking and able to receive in comparison to what I was looking for and for what would have been effective for me.
I didn't even want to mention anything further about the place in my last post-- because it's just too much-- on top of what I already told you about what happened.
As you know, I went to the county program asking for assistance in getting off of a 5 year physical Sub dependence, with medication to help eliminate withdrawal symptoms--with "ease" and comfort. I expected that I would be treated with respect, dignity, and as either a "client" or a "patient".
I went to that place to seek "comfort" in getting off, as well as to receive a medication plan for depression & addiction after getting out. Also possibly a referral to a decent Sober Living House.
That place I was at was really extremely POORLY run-- by low-life staff who truly don't care--in an absolutely FILTHY, FILTHY homeless shelter/prison-type environment that's really only designed to get homeless people and criminals "detoxed"- provide them food and shelter because they have none, try to rehabilitate them with extremely limited resources & poorly run programs, and then send them on their way right back out to the streets with no other help or resources. There is always a waiting list for people trying to get in--and the same people go in & out like a revolving door. (I was actually told that by a staff member).
The people who are "treated" there actually look to that horrible place as if it's their "home"--especially in the winter. A great percentage are solely there to seek shelter, & not rehab-- while they await sentencing. Others are so mentally ill and extremely ridden with severe addiction & other life problems that there is absolutely no hope--WHATSOEVER--for them.
Since It's paid by the state-- I'm sure the staff are the lowest paid people in the field. (Again- you get what you pay for--AS ALWAYS.) (You pay for sh**--you get sh**). (I pad nothing & got nothing out of it). They just don't care. Most staff were NASTY-and scummy.
It's extremely incompetently run--with a way below standard of care--for anyone--homeless or not.
And, they most definitely did not care whether or not a down and out, hopeless & depressed, middle class, college educated, non- homeless (YET), white woman, like me, who was seeking "comfort" in detoxing off of Subs--received the "care she was looking for". Absolutely not!!! They also CLEARLY don't even know how to provide the care I was looking for & need, anyway. They wouldn't bother, even if they did know what they were doing. That's not what the place is about.
There was graffiti on the bedroom furniture and elsewhere through the "facility". The entire place was just SOOOO incredibly FILTHY. I can't even begin to describe. I would never have taken my shoes off to even take a shower for fear of catching a disease. My cats wouldn't even eat the food they served--which was also so STRICTLY limited to very small portions--& which people constantly fought over. (Tiny portions of crap food with NO seconds). I was there a little over 36 hours and two physical fights broke out. Literally. They had to call security to break them up.
Not ONE person was capable of having an intelligent adult conversation. NOOOOO ONE!! One "serious" topic of conversation I happened to overhear by some "patients" was about donkeys having sex with women & being filmed. I kid you not!!!!
I forgot to mention- the "nurse" who gave me my TB test didn't even wear gloves. Now I'm terrified I might have caught something. But there's nothing I can do about it.
It really was the WORST experience of my life--and useless. Not only useless to me- but useless for everyone in there. TOTAL waste of taxpayer money, IMO-because they are not helping anyone for the long term.
As bad as it was-- if they could have helped me get off Subs--I would have stayed for the detox ONLY, and also looked at it as a life experience, as well as a wake-up call as to how my life isn't as bad, & to where I could end up if I don't get my addiction under control. I just wouldn't have showered or washed any of my clothes while I was there--& lost lots of weight- (which wouldn't have been such a bad thing, for me).
As much as I was totally repulsed by the place, I really felt bad for some of the people there. They have no hope.
I was officially denied last week by Welfare for Medical Assistance because I do have some resources left, and only found out the decision so quickly because of applying for this county program. Even though it's going to kill me financially, I called the ACA Marketplace today, got everything straightened out & ordered an excellent insurance plan for 2015 with a very low deductible. It's not effective until January 1st, though.
Since I did that now--& I'll be officially "insured" again within a few weeks, there's no way I can even call that guy back at County tomorrow.
But, if all he would do is send me somewhere else that's similar-- they won't be able to provide the care and help I'm seeking anyway.
If I hadn't gone through all this crap, though, my Medical Assistance wouldn't have been denied so quickly & I wouldn't have had an answer. I then wouldn't have qualified for insurance by Jan 1st. So-- all this did at least serve some purpose.
I hope everything goes through. I won't hear from my insurance company for 7-10 business days-- & of course I have to make a payment. But, I was TOLD I was approved.
I have to go cash in my few bucks in CD's this week, now, in order to make payment, & pay for living expenses until then. But, I can't move on with my life until I get off of Subs & get my addiction under control. And quite obviously I can't do that without decent insurance to get rid of this Sub dependence. I'm also thinking about the cost of counseling & meds after I get out, too-which is why I chose the insurance plan I did.
I can't wait to just pick up the phone, call a place I KNOW can & will provide me with quality care that I need, & be there within a day--tops. Follow every instruction they give me & NEVER allow myself to be in this situation again once I get out of it. I now see how much worse things can really get.
I'm just going to lay low the rest of this month, now, & worry whether things will work out with my insurance plan or not!!
I still didn't take ANY Sub since before I left for that place Saturday. Going to still try to hold out as long as possible--& take as little as possible even when the withdrawals kick in. Bear minimum-only if absolutely need be. 2mg, tops.
Getting off of Sub is still the most important thing in my life--that--& getting help for my depression. Can't move on with my life without these things being resolved, first. It's just not possible.
Maybe my 6 day self-conducted detox, & skipping days afterward will still help me in the end, even though that was a couple weeks ago. I just don't know. I didn't keep track of exactly of how much Sub I took every day since then. I know I skipped a lot of days. I took 8mg Fri & Sat.--nothing since then. But I am certain I'm not even close to out of the woods in regard to withdrawal, & restless body, yet, though. That's what I can't take.
After seeing what I saw--even though I'm depressed & miserable--that showed me that I at least have HOPE. Things totally suck now, but, my God--things could surely be worse.
__________________
MicheleJ

Last edited by MicheleJ; 12-09-2014 at 05:36 PM..
MicheleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2014 Addiction Survivors