Addiction Survivors

Notices

Reply
Unread 12-31-2005, 05:50 PM   #101
connieZ
Junior Member
 
Posts: 10
Default

Purple,

The doc can prescibel sub for addiction for as long as needed the insurance co. should not decide when you get off. Talk to your doc about keeping you on it for your addiction he could talk to your insurance co. for you. The other option is to go to another doc and start all over, do the induction phase and maintainence.

Connie
connieZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2005, 10:44 PM   #102
purple
Senior Member
 
Posts: 237
Default

Thank you connie i will talk to my doc.about it this week so the FIGHT with the ins.co. can bagin,I say it like that becouse the ins. co. gives me a hard time paying for everything,I hope i can stay with my doc. i have now[hes very good and open and understanding]BUT i will go to another doc.for sub.if needed.
Thanks again.
purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2005, 11:51 PM   #103
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Purple:

First, I wish you a very

<center>HAPPY AND HEALTHY NEW YEAR!</center>

<div align="left"></div id="left">I'll post what I know re: insurance coverage within the next few days. I'm very busy right now and want to ask questions and make inquiries before I respond to you. I note that you are a long-time member (since August, '05) of this site. Please let me know how long you've been treating, the type of ins. coverage you have, your co-pays, if any, as well as any other relevant information.

Thanks.

Cheers, and all the best to you and yours,
Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-02-2006, 03:23 PM   #104
purple
Senior Member
 
Posts: 237
Default

I have been taking suboxone for pain managment since Aug.
My ins. is state funded.Healthy newyork/wellcare program is the name.it is not wellcare through social services.It is a program for low wage workers.I fall in the wage bracket by .40cents.
What ever else you need to know leeg. just ask i do VERY MUCH appriciate your time in responding to this
I dont need a induction phase[never had one]becouse i didnt start sub. to detox.per responce to prior post.I SUpose i could need one if necasery HUM
purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 02:28 AM   #105
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Hi Purp:

Good news!

You are fortunate to live in New York as I believe they may heavily subsidize, or possibly even offer free sub maintenance programs.

I'll be back to you with more definitive information shortly. I'm still overburdened with other responsibilities. Sorry not to respond more quickly.

All the best,
Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 02:29 AM   #106
Phoenix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 503
Default

Hey Robert:
Glad to hear you're still around. Was wondering where you were. LOL
Judy
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 04:14 AM   #107
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Posted - 01/04/2006 : 00:12:11
Onerka

I've been on Suboxone for 2 years now. When I started the program I was taking 120mg of Hydrocodone a day. I had to travel 700 miles by plane to find a Dr. that had a slot in his Suboxone program. My Dr. prescribed me 3 of the 8mg Suboxone tablets a day for the first 8 months. I'm down to 1.25 8mg tablets a day now and feel as normal or better then I did before using. I'm convinced that there is an anti depressant effect that is different then the opiate high. I know I'm alive because of this drug, I can't say enough good things about it, except the price. What's the longest you've heard of someone being on Suboxone? I was wondering if there is any information from long term patients about side effects that don't show up right away.


leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 05:16 AM   #108
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

onerka



USA
1 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2006 : 00:12:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been on Suboxone for 2 years now. When I started the program I was taking 120mg of Hydrocodone a day. I had to travel 700 miles by plane to find a Dr. that had a slot in his Suboxone program. My Dr. prescribed me 3 of the 8mg Suboxone tablets a day for the first 8 months. I'm down to 1.25 8mg tablets a day now and feel as normal or better then I did before using. I'm convinced that there is an anti depressant effect that is different then the opiate high. I know I'm alive because of this drug, I can't say enough good things about it, except the price. What's the longest you've heard of someone being on Suboxone? I was wondering if there is any information from long term patients about side effects that don't show up right away.

leeglegle



USA
138 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2006 : 01:44:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Dave:

I've been on sub for three years because of depression which led to opiod/opiate addiction. No side effects except that both my addiction and depression both stopped immediately after induction and neither has returned.

Sub is my miracle cure for both addiction and depression. It's a chicken-egg question. In my situation, there is no doubt that the chicken (or egg) which came first was depression. Also, no doubt that I'd be dead if it weren't for sub maintenance.

No matter.

Sub interrupted that vicious 30 year cycle and I am now free from both addiction and depression.

I've been on the same dosage as yours for three years. The only side effect has been an uninterrupted joy of life! Real life! Productive life! Sober life! Undepressed life!
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 05:21 AM   #109
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

I really need to learn how to post.
All the best,
Robert


Onerka: Did my post(s) make any sense in terms of where they wound up among the topics? Where am I? I swear I'm straight.

Good night,
R
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 11:01 AM   #110
purple
Senior Member
 
Posts: 237
Default

GOOD MORNING LEEG.
HAPPY NEWYEAR
I do believe i am very good at reading between the lines and i do believe that thats the message i recieved in your posts.[havent had my coffeee queta yet]
I do see how sub.has turned the life of many from despreate despair to a possitive life as it has done for me as well.I AM a ADDICT through and through with no qs about it
I allways used becouse it made me come out of my shell and be social and the euphorias is [believe it or not ]what i started to dred.
With sub. There is no euphoria I am motivated,i think cklearer on sub. then i did when i wouldnt even take a asprin for 7years.

I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THE NY programs and i will be looking in to them
I DO THANK you for for posts Robert.
I am in so much fear of going off sub.YOU have given me the WILL and BACKBONE to fight for WHAT IS NEEDED
I am sure you didnt intend to move the posts all over the place but every thing happens for a reason and for me it was to see them here
purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 03:57 PM   #111
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Y'know Purp, I frquently tell people addiction saved my life. The response is always a puzzled look and instant resistance to the idea. But I know that if it weren't for my period of addiction, I would have killed myself. In a really screwed up sense, like you, my pills brought me out of the dark pit into which I had descended and out of which I could not climb.

And I'm a strong person with a strong will. But, as we all know, addiction isn't a matter of character. It is, unquestionably, a disease.

For the few hours the effects of the vics, the percs, the oxys by the hand and mouthfull lasted, I, too, became more outgoing, focused and, yes, happy. Of course we all know the cycle that quickly took me over and took me down. In life, timing is everything. My good fortune was that my timing was lucky. I awoke one day in a totally psychotic state. I hadn't realized it, but I had been slowly slipping away for months. Psychosis was the best thing that ever happened to me (outside of suboxone treatment). Actually make that the third best thing.

The BEST thing was the love and devotion of my wife, a strong woman like Judy. Somehow she sustained me all those dark, dark years.

Then, right after the months of psychosis, I emerged as the same person I was before. An untreatable depressive and addict. But, there was a difference. My wife, like Judy, stepped in. She did what has to be the toughest bravest thing I've ever seen a person do. She had me committed in civil court. I was placed, against my will and wishes in a state psychiatric facility. Immediately upon release, I found myself in an L.A. treatment center that had a slightly different take on the AA, NA model. As always, it didn't work for me.

I left despite the opposition of my family, the treatment center and a judge, who was, and remains, a good friend of mine. He threatened to throw me in jail. He wasn't kidding. I made it back to the east coast on $85.00 and guile. God bless Southwest Airlines and my ability to b.s. my way onto one of their planes w/o a paying a dime. Can you imagine how good a con artist an addicted trial attorney can become? Man, I was at my full bulls***tin' best! I was also in full withdrawal on that longest plane flight in the history of aviation.

When I landed, due to the intervention of the same loved ones and friends, and, I should add, with my acquiescence, I went to a rehab facility in Florida. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. But, what also sustained me was my memory of being psychotic. That event eased but didn't erase the notion that I was merely weak willed and an uncaring addict. I was coming to the conclusion that I really was ill mentally and physically.

To shorten the story, the bastard docs I had been seeing never mentioned suboxone to me. It had just been FDA approved. I returned home from Florida on January 13, 2003. I've written elsewhere on this site of my search for and discovery of suboxone.

Like you and the ever growing legion of suboxone patients I am a new man with a wonderful new life free of depresion and addiction. I am actually normal. Not high. Normal!

I like to joke in this very religious area of the country, that I'm the only truly born-again Jew you'll ever meet. Not in a religious sense of course, but the change has been so profound that it took me a good year or more to learn who I really am. I didn't know. Decades of depression and years of addiction created a false persona. But now I know who I am, and like the old Saturday Night Live character, I can honesty say: "I like myself. I really like myself".

I couldn't say that truthfully before suboxone. Well, that's my miracle . And yours. And Tony's. And God knows how many others. We are all free to like ourselves. Free! Freedom!

I hope this makes sense, Purple. You inspire me.

Thank you.
Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 05:06 PM   #112
purple
Senior Member
 
Posts: 237
Default

Your journey through life is very inspiring Hope you [Leeg.]entered it with Tim
I have to go to work
I will post when i get there and get my work done
I feel like i want to meet everyone from this group someday
A NAAB party somewhere someday would be awsome
purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2006, 08:02 PM   #113
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,316
Default

Hey Wendy, Just checking in. Wanted to see how you were doing! Happy New Year! -Mary
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2006, 07:40 AM   #114
Janet T
Junior Member
 
Posts: 14
Default

How do you do this forum/discussion thing? I want to reply to the last few postings (it's now 1/5/06 in the a.m.) and I've never done this before. I'm about to go on Suboxone and would like to get into the discussion about it. Does my reply automatically go to the end/most recent section? HELP! How to I reply to one specific person? I'm normally a much smarter person than this paragraph would indicate, I swear.

Anyway, I've been told to stay off the opiates for 12 hours before taking my first dose of Suboxone. The doc wants to give me a 2mg. tablet to see how I do, then if nothing horrible happens, raise the dose to an appropriate level. This is very scary, but I've read/heard so much good stuff about this med - especially for opiate addicts who have serious depression problems - that it's worth a try. Any feedback? Thanks.
Janet T is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2006, 10:40 AM   #115
purple
Senior Member
 
Posts: 237
Default

Hi Janet ewlcome
At the bottom of the page just hit reply to topic,like you probley did to post this one,And just write the persons name at the top of your response that you want to talk to,every one will be able to see it.some members have there email posted to.If you click on the little boxes at the top of the page in someones response there is a profile button
Also I am probley confusing you even more [ups]THERE is a topic called NEW MEMBERS START HERE,HOW THIS BOARD WORKS that might be helpfull
You should JUST START POSTING LIKE YOU DID FOR THIS and go with it

Being scared and nevous is OK your about todo the unknown Take it one step at a time,AND WELCOME


purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2006, 11:10 AM   #116
Robyn
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Default

Hi Janet,
I replied to you on another thread, good luck to you. FWIW, the odds are in your favor that the Sub will work. Yes, some have had some issues with it, but most have adapted quite nicely. As you can see on this board, it's working for those with far stronger DOC than what we were taking. I was also hooked on the hydrocodone and tomorrow will be day 60.....nothing even close to a relapse, a passing thought that was fleeting.

Once you start, the questions will start pouring out of your mind. Post them and those that can help, will. It's important to realize you are not alone. You can seek support at NA meetings or 12 step alternatives, or the amazing resources on the www, just like this site.

Keep in touch,

(I have been compiling a list of internet sites for recovery and will share my listing upon completion..........there are some amazing people on the www!)
Robyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2006, 12:10 PM   #117
just-n-time
Junior Member
 
Posts: 10
Default

welcome me to the group!!
Thank-you for your replies!! sounds like we were in the same catagory!! I too have no clue how to answer posts!!, just like Janet, however, it sounds like she has figured it out, I have not!! Anyway, I wanted to say "Thanks", to all!!
just-n-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2006, 11:48 PM   #118
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

RMetal, Theater, TLC, Onerka (Dave?), Connie, Phoenix, Purp, Mary. Just-n, and all:

I've lost track of this thread and it will be difficult for me to catch up for at least the next 5-6 days. I tried to catch up today, but have no time left. All I can say is that I've just quickly reviewed your posts on this thread and every one of you have made good observations and asked good questions. I've also seen how you support each other. I have a good and warm feeling that our family sincerely cares and helps each other.

God bless all of you in this new year. This site and all who participate are an inspiring experience.

Robert

leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 12:03 AM   #119
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Hello all again:

Just re-re-read this entire thread once more.

Not nearly as lost as I thought. Thanks for finding me and each other. We are showing great strength and sincerity.

Let's all thank TIM for bringing us together.

Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 07:20 AM   #120
Janet T
Junior Member
 
Posts: 14
Default

Hi everyone -

This is the first time in my life I've found anyone to talk to about this subject who's actually had personal experience with it -- and it's SO AMAZING. Thank you all for the support and info so far. Also, I'm still learning about this forum thing -- like how on earth do you keep track of the different "threads"?

Anyway, here's the update:

This morning I started with the Suboxone. Going into the doctor's office in "moderate withdrawl" wasn't fun, but it's been much worse (a relapse of 12 Vics ES/day vs. a huge I.V. heroin habit...). Here's what happened: he gave me 2mg and had me wait for a 1/2 hour. It was fine (I felt nothing) so he wrote me a script for 14 8mg. tabs and told me to take a total of 3 (24mg) per day. I thought that was ridiculously high for the amount of Vics I'd been taking and we discussed it -- apparently the idea, he says, is to make sure I'm absolutely covered (no withdrawl symptoms, no cravings).

I took the 8mg pill and felt very high, a little queasy, and spaced out as hell (actually, nothing new about that!). But it was a zillion times better than detoxing the usual way, the "high" leveled out, and it was generally easier than being on the Vics (they really weren't working anymore, anyway - the depression was breaking though and adding more Vics didn't help).

So I went about my day, took one more pill a few hours later, went to an AA meeting, and here I am. One really cool thing: I had a few Moments, where I felt this weird half-second relief of the depression...it was like a quick glimpse of something out there beyond the darkness, something ultimately reachable. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Anyway, back to practicalities: I need some advice. I'm not a doctor, but I've done tons of research and read your stories and it seems that 8mgs/day would be more than enough to start, later working down to 2-4/mgs per day as a "maintenance" dose. This doctor has no idea that I'm thinking of this drug as a possible anti-depressant in addition to a detox drug; I'm still searching for that (I have an appt. at UCLA next week).

Anyone have any ideas? My situation is weird: the relapse was short and - relatively, not that bad - and dosing is tricky. I don't want my brain to get comfortable with a giant dose of an opiates unnecessarily, but I also don't want to suffer more than I have to.

I'm sorry this is so long - I swear I just meant to check in and say hello!

Take care, and thank you again for the interesting, informative posts and much-needed support.
Janet T is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 11:29 AM   #121
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,316
Default

Janet, First of all, welcome! I think the reason you're not getting anywhere with doctors when talking about using suboxone as a medication for depression is that it is FDA approved only for the treatment for opiate addiction. And any doctor prescribing 'off label' i believe would find him/herself in a pile of trouble, especially since they need to take a course and get a DEA number to be able to prescribe. Your doctor also appears to be following some sort of 'induction protocol' or schedule. Which usually - depends on the doctor - is adjusted to the needs of the individual - hopefully. So unfortunately, with the newness of the drug here in the US, and the limited number of doctors who prescribe, I think that's why we find ourselves in situations such as your.

I do have a couple of questions though. Since you're dealing with depression, do you see a psychiatrist? Or have you found any psychiatrists who are certified to prescribe? They might be more willing to understand the connection - depression/drug addiction - than like a general practitioner, or as one member here, her opthalmolgist (sp) who is her prescribing md. If you see a psychiatrist, have him/her get certified. They can do it online, so they can do it at their leisure and not have to wait for a class on it. There's a couple places http://naabt.org/providers.cfm
one under training and one under support.

I hope some of this helps! And hey, nothing here is too long or too short, we all have something to say and we all want to help and support each other -Mary
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 01:32 PM   #122
gwen
Senior Member
 
Posts: 365
Default

hi janet and welcome. i'm right with you with sub helping depression. i just went from 16 to start in june, to 12 now to 8 yesterday. prior to my oxy addiction i had taken many different anti-depressants and none really worked and i am finding the sub is also helping with my depression. like mary wrote, some doctors just follow some protocol of sorts, but what my doctor is doing is finding the least amount with the best effects. i think some people say 8 because the pills come in 2 and 8. my doctor and i had talked about going to 10 but decided on 8 because the 4mg decrease didn't have any ill effects. thus, the 8. and from there we'll see next month (i see him monthly).

how much did you end up taking? 16 or the whole 24? i needed the 16 at the beginning because of 5 years of oxys. if i went lower (on my own) i did notice the difference. but i didn't after the few months and down 4 to 12. but everyone is different. as long as you don't have the cravings and wds, if 8 works, that great, but also remember to try cutting the pill so you can do in between amounts too. like the 12 was good for a bit also for me. i hope i'm not rambling on too much here! i'll stop now.... peace -gwen
gwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 04:28 PM   #123
dan sewell
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Default

SPENT AN HOUR WRITING ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE WITH SUB AND DEPRESSION, BUT ENDED UP POSTIN IT IN THE GENERAL DISCUSSION CATEGORY. Check it out if your so inclined. peace
dan sewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2006, 07:38 PM   #124
connieZ
Junior Member
 
Posts: 10
Default

Hi Dan

I read your story on the other thread and it is very similar to mine. The underlying problem of my addiction is depression. Since I've been on suboxen I feel normal and have no desire for drugs. I plan to stay on this medication for probably the rest of my life. The problem is the 30 patient limit and the few doc's who prescibe. But I live very close to NYC and Yale New Haven Hospital so hopefully I won't have problems finding doc's. But my goal is to find one that is willing to prescibe this for depression and somehow we need to find a way to get doc's to be able to prescibe for that reason. Robert who posts frequently is trying to do that. And if there's anything I can do to help him I would be very willing to do so. I think if we all stick together and tell our stories to the right people the laws will change if our favor. It was nice to read your story. Good Luck to You.

ConnieZ
connieZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2006, 12:46 AM   #125
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Hi Dan:

I took the liberty of copying your post and moved it to this "Depression and Suboxone" Topic. Or is it a thread? I hope you don't object. Your post certainly addresses the issue talked about here. Thanks for your contribution.

The board can sometimes be confusing until you're accustomed to it. I still struggle with this cyberspace thing.


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dan sewell

Hey Gang,
This is my first post to this forum, but I can assure you that I fit right in with the protocol. Mine is not an unusual story, as I know that you have either experienced it personally, or, know someone who has had. I could tell you a heart breaking history that includes some extreme behavior, and consequences, brought on by my addictive nature. A life I've often wondered if was worth living, and continually considered ending in order to stop the emotional torment. I'll try to cut my story down to what is
pertinent.
Pretty heavy introduction--huh. I only feel comfortable being candid and forthright, because I know I'm amongst friends who can relate on some level (hopefully not as severe). Lets just say that from a very young age something was terribly wrong in the way I perceived life, and depression/addiction have been my lifelong companions. I only have put this dual diagnosis concept together in the past year or two-perhaps needing to go through this series of life experiences in order to come to my present state of comprehension.
Fortunately, I have the best parents in the world who have been very understanding, and who have helped me in all manners of seeking help. If it were not for them, I would've expired years ago. They have encouraged me to seek help, and stood by me when the going got tough. (this is starting to turn into a novel).
Twenty plus rehabs and institutionalizations....All in the name of addiction. Extended "vacations" at the Gray Bar Inn as a result of "criminal" activity ( I'm a good person, my crimes all drug related, not stealing or violent).Scores of Psychiatrists and counselors. Years in and out of the smoke filled rooms of AA/NA. Attempts to find religion, self help books, new age/ old age philosophies. Every known combination of psychotropic drug known to man.So many failed attempts, when I've had the best intentions of remaining clean. Any of this sound familiar???
What I've finally come to realize is that my depression drives my addiction, a fact that I have had to force down the throats of those who supposedly know about addiction. Every damn one of them has worked on the premise that everything would be dandy when I stopped using, and then some counseling and a dash of antidepressants to fix me. It just hasn't worked, depression leads me right back to the strong stuff.
The closest non-addictive drug that has worked is Wellbutrin, but has still paled in comparison to Suboxone.I am only taking 1-2 mg(I say 1-2 because I have to divide an 8mg pill in order to stretch out my limited supply) of Suboxone daily, and even skip days because of it's long lasting effect.Technically I'm (my doc knows Im taking less than prescribed) "detoxing" but figure I'll be coming off the stuff for as long as I can figure out a way to keep a supply.Is this abusing a medication? Am I a criminal? I don't even feel the Sub as much as 90% of the antidepressants I've used in the past. I feel like I can actually function and be a productive member of society--something that has not even been an option for soooo long.
The bottom line is this: I can get a near endless supply of Xanax, Loritab, and more at my local Dr. office (they love to see me coming) with the dial of a phone number (but we all know where that will end up), but I cant use Suboxone in extreme moderation with no desire to double dose. You know, I dont want to get high anymore, I just want to live a semi productive life without emotional torment. I bet you probably feel the same way. I hope we can help turn the tide.
My name is Dan, and I've finally found some relief.
Good luck to you all, Ill keep ya posted.
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2006, 01:43 AM   #126
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

I'm unsure if I'm violating protocol, but I'm going to copy several posts from the "General Discusson" section to this topic on "Suboxone and Depression".

I'm doing so because I am receiving a large number of private phone and email inquiries relating to the efficacy suboxone has had on their debilitating depression.

Some are from the people who who authored the posts but were unfamiliar with this board and meant to post under this topic.

TIM: If this is inappropriate, please let me know.

Best,

Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2006, 01:51 AM   #127
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Originally posted by heidi[/i]

my story is basically this....
i have had severe clinical depression since childhood but somehow managed not to pick up anything but cigarettes until i was around 27, then entered a very abusive relationship with what turned out to be a dealer (not dope), lost custody of my only child, lost home, lost everything. stopped using, six months later went to a party and did what i thought was coke, turned out to be dope, and i was completely hooked from day one, two, three, whatever.
spent the next four years in and out of detoxes and rehabs (too many to count) trying to get clean because i hated being a slave to the dope. hated it. made me do things i would never in a million years believe i would do.
ANYWAY, last stint in rehab lasted 4 months, stayed clean for about 2 after that.
managed to hang on to job long enough to get another one here before first one fired me. this is my DREAM job, i am finally close to my daughter again in a nice home and i will not lose it all again. if it starts going down, i have the suidical tendencies to deal with, so everyday is like hell on eggshells.
which is why i am so desperate to get into a program. i know from two weeks of being on this medicine that it WORKS where nothing else has.
anyway, wow, my life in a nutshell is pretty damn depressing. haha. glad to be able to laugh, anyway.

peace,
heidi

--------------------------------
[/quote]

Originally posted by heidi[/i]

dan -
i totally know what you mean. it sucks. nobody can understand that you're just trying to function like a "normal" person, not get high or go nuts and rob, pillage and murder. i've had the same (un)success you have with AA/NA, rehab, anti-depressants...and the same surprising results with this stuff. the fact that it's MUCH harder to get than heroin (it is) is nauseating. i mean, jesus, it has a BLOCKER in it. and yet they regulate it as if it will spawn satan if dropped in water.
anyway, thanks for sharing (as they say), it was really nice to hear.
peace,
heidi
p.s. i don't think you're abusing the stuff, but that's my personal opinion. it's medicine that is serving a purpose in your body to make you function normally, just like an anti-depressant should. if that's abuse, then one hell of a lot of people are drug abusers.
[/quote]


---------------------------------

Heidi: You have a real talent for communicating in a fabulously descriptive manner. Thanks for using it.

Robert

Originally posted by heidi[/i]

i have none left. haven't had a thing since tuesday night (4mg, or 1/2 8 mg pill). i am losing my mind. my doctor is giving me free anti-depressants in the meantime. aargh. like that's going to do anything. plus i have to walk 8 blocks to get that, which u can imagine how agonizing that is, especially when freezing my ass off.
god, i really don't want to use, but i don't know how much longer i can keep this up. plus, i think i'm creating a bias against myself by going and telling him i haven't technically used dope in 3 weeks, only the sub. so he thinks i'm basically off the sh*# and it's nothing like that at all.
[/quote]

Another transfer from a diferent thread because Janet talks about the absurdity that sub is not officially recognized as the miracle anti-depressant it is.

An amazing number of opiate addicts write of the fact that their depression either led to or worsened their addiction. Why the hell do we often need to run from the truth of our depression in order to be treated for our addiction?

Robert


-----------------------------
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Janet Thompson



I just posted a really long and detailed story of today's Suboxone experience/new questions on the other thread, so I won't get into that here.

Congrats on getting off the 300mg/day dose you were on. That's so great - I know firsthand the unbelievable hell of trying to maintain/survive that state.

First, If you want to share more details about your early experience and about the way you're feeling now, I'd be very interested in hearing them. Second, you mentioned finding a good doctor. I must have made 200 phone calls last week, trying to find a doctor who (1) took my insurance (Medicare), (2) dealt with both depression AND opiate addiction, and (3) was able to accept a new patient. I live in L.A. - you would think this would be easy. Not so! I ended up "settling," and I've yet to find any doctor who would even TALK about prescribing Suboxone as an anti-depressant.

What is the matter with these people? If there's a medication in existence that can improve a person's quality of life to such an extent, it should be available to everyone. This kind of under-the-table doctor-seeking/prescribing is ridiculous, and I applaud anyone who's willing to stand up publicly to bring it to the public's awareness (ie. Robert).

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, and I look forward to hearing more from you.
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2006, 11:51 PM   #128
JRT
Senior Member
 
Posts: 130
Default

I am interested to see how my husband responds regarding depression. I never thought of him as having depression but now two days in I fear part of his drug use was to mask feelings of depression and insecurity. As I stated in a previous post I am concerned that he may become more depressed as he heals and realizes how messsed up things became in our world. I also think that I as the spouse have the potential to become depressed over losses the drug dependency created.

I hope our future as a happy and uplifting ending for your book!!!!
JRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2006, 07:47 PM   #129
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

Hi All and PLEASE HELP!!!

Being new to this forum treatment and all of you, I would am trying to avoid panic as I'm having extreme difficulty getting my presription for 2 mg buprenorphine filled. I'm suppose to star treatment Tuesday and all the drug store can supply me with is 2.5 mg suboxone/naloxone. Will the naloxone cause any adverse affects? I don't shoot dope and really would prefer the straight buprenorphine, but the Jones' will soooooone be knocking on my door, and I would really not relish that experience again.
Thanks and God Bless,
brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2006, 07:55 PM   #130
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,316
Default

Hi brosid and welcome! The naloxone shouldn't make any difference at all. It's there to prevent abuse from IV or other non-sublingual use. There have been some cases where people have experienced sensitivity to the naloxone, but for the most part, it doesn't affect most. Did you try another pharmacy, if it is a cause for concern? And the sensitivity has caused some people to have swelling or itching or hives, but nothing life-threatening. And switching to the subutex for the next script won't be a problem if you need to. Please feel free to ask anything you'd like! I wish you good luck! I think you'll be very happy with how you'll soon be feeling!! Mary

oh, I copied this from the frequently asked questions:

What is the naloxone for?
Under normal conditions, the naloxone has no effect. Very little is absorbed when taken under the tongue. It can only get into your body if it is injected or crushed and inhaled. The naloxone is there to prevent Buprenorphine misuse and diversion to the street, by rendering it virtually non-abusable. Injected, naloxone causes immediate withdrawal in opioid dependent people.
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2006, 08:14 PM   #131
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

Thank you Mary for your expedient reply! I've tried several pharmacies, and am sure with time everything will right itself. After years of this struggle, it would surely be a relief putting this GORILLA, back in Hell where it belongs, a few days is a minor inconvience compared to what everyone here has experienced. To get ones life back is indeed a gift. Sort of like the saying."yesterday is history, tommorrow is a mystery, today is the present, so it is a gift."......brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2006, 08:53 PM   #132
Robyn
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Default

Brosid,
What the pharmacies are saying they have available is what many of us were inducted on, and without a problem.

Good luck to you...I am sure you have your instructions. Pamper yourself and good luck on Tuesday..........

Let us know how you are doing, ok?
Robyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2006, 09:47 PM   #133
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

Hi,

What the pharmacy is saying now is that they cannot substitute my script for buprenorphine for suboxone, because of the added naloxone. This is an Eckerd's, and they will try and get subutex by Monday evening. Isn't life exciting, constantly full of surprizes, toils and snares. HALLELUJAH!!! Adversity builds character, I hope. Continuing... CVS says three days for a class III narcotic and Walgreens is cop-in' to Mr. Kings day, so only God knows when this and everything else will happen, but bless the Lord it will all come together soon. Thank you for your input. You All are Great...brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2006, 12:01 AM   #134
Robyn
Senior Member
 
Posts: 513
Default

Hi again,
I get so frustrated with these stores when they act like they forget who is the customer....Sure, there cannot be a substitution, but they can call the doctor for authorization, and most of these doctors have answering services. (BTW, a verbal order is permissable for the induction dose, provided it is followed up with a written prescription. But there is this trust issue between the pharmacy and the doctor. Many of these doctors have a pharmacy they recommend for this reason).

Good luck to you!
Robyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2006, 10:03 PM   #135
northpmc
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1
Default

Here is link to another site with a nice simple disertation on addiction as a brain disease - written in English, not medicalese.

http://www.addictionrecoveryguide.or...rticle151.html

It's a more general and holistic oriented site. In the discussion on Sub, they say there are two problems - treatment not covered and cost of drug. (me thinks they are methadone-oriented) Forgot to mention 30 patient limit.
northpmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2006, 11:16 PM   #136
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Sherri:

I looked for your email address and found none. I have no way to communicate with you privately. Please return to my original post and either email or call me.

I will be available any time tomorrow.

Take care,

Robert
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2006, 11:32 PM   #137
Frozen
Senior Member
 
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by florida girl


Dr. Beach wanted me to come to his office and he would not supply any medication and his first office visit charge was almost $700.00, then he required that I attend councelling and NA at his clinic three nights a week at a cost of $50.00 per meeting/session, then follow up visits in his office once a week at another high cost...for an indefinite period of time.
Screw that, you can do MUCH better. Sounds like he's either a control freak, trying to milk out as much money from you as possible- or both.

Quote:
quote:To make a long story short, I did not make the appointment to see Dr. Beach. Also, I am still addicted to pain killers. I don't take more than six per day but I should be taking none...
...
I currently take Cymbalta for depression, have been depressed for as long as I can remember and a life long addict.
Sherri, your line of thinking is currently rather conventional- and therefore inaccurate. Cymbalta is yet another failed product of conventional medical orthodoxy, which is dead set on inhibiting serotonin & norepinephrine re-uptake while completely ignoring the vital role of your endogenous opioids (endorphins, dynorphins, enkephalins).

It is likely that your refractory depression is a result of an endogenous opioid deficiency, and if this is the case, you do need to be consuming opioid medication in order to counter-balance your endogenous opioid deficiency. Bupe is preferrable over Lortabs for many reasons, but Lortabs may well be preferrable over nothing.
I've explained this concept in greater detail in my other posts here. This summary should help you better understand the concept:


At no point did I ever have an opiate addiction problem, but rather an opiate addiction solution. My oxy dependency was not a problem I needed to overcome, but rather a solution to the nightmare of major refractory depression which plagued me every waking hour. The concept is simple, but needs to be repeated until it becomes common knowledge: While common medical orthodoxy remains for some reason stuck on serotonin over-reuptake as the standard cause of nearly all depression, reality says otherwise. Every person has naturally occurring chemicals in their brain called endogenous opioids. They are endorphins, dynorphins and enkephalins. These endogenous opioids are properly named, as they are (molecularly) nearly identical to real opioids like oxy or fent. Some people have a natural deficiency of these vital chemicals, and have no choice but to consume opioids from an external source in order to feel 'normal'.

The only reason I switched from oxy to sub is due to the inconvenience, expense and scarcity of oxy, entirely caused by governmental prohibition laws. Switching really hasn't impacted my life all that much, except that now I don't need to be nervous about being forced to find my life saving medication from a delicate and illegal chain of middlemen. I don't look at my past oxy dependency as a drug problem at all, because it really wasn't one. Depression caused by an endogenous opioid deficiency in combination with nanny-state prohibition laws was my real problem.

Many of the scientific research papers backing up my (unconventional) explaination of depression as a result of endogenous opioid deficiency can be found at David Pearce's life saving site:

http://www.opioids.com/



Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2006, 11:43 PM   #138
florida girl
Junior Member
 
Posts: 5
Default

Robert, I just sent out an email to you...Sorry, I don't feel comfortable enough to post my email address here yet. Thank you for your prompt response to my post and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,
Sherri
florida girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2006, 09:57 PM   #139
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

Greetings to All,

Thanks to everyone with your responses and encouragement. I've finally got my script filled, will start w/d @11:00 PM this evening. I should be in mild to moderate stage for my 11:15 AM appointment tomorrow. Hate w/d but look forward hoping the end justifies the means. Bless you all once again, and am looking for a "better than I even thought," result....brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #140
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,316
Default

brosid, congratulations! Just think of the wds tonight as the 'little storm before the calm'. Please let us know how you do tomorrow. I'll be thinking of you and be sending positive energy your way! Mary
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-16-2006, 10:24 PM   #141
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

Mary,

I will surly share my healing experience's. I've been up your way before, and have some friends in Rye and Portsmouth. Have also been in pain clinic at Harvard U. in Boston back in 2001. Was bluefin tuna fishing in Cape Cod of that year, and then 9/11. That certainly didn't help with the many variables I was dealing with at that time, compounded with a broken heart because of the events of that day.

Lets shift gears and see the sunshine behind those skys of grey. Talk to ya all tomorrow...brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2006, 05:24 PM   #142
dodo
Senior Member
 
Posts: 780
Default

brosid,
How did it go? Are you feeling alright? Any questions?
Doris
dodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2006, 05:50 PM   #143
brosid
Member
 
Posts: 36
Default

dodo,

Thanks for careing. Yesterday within an hour of my first dose, all the way until about a hour ago everything was wonderful. Now after a little stress was brought upon me, I'm starting to feel a little bit antsey, jittery and slight shakes I noticed in my handwriting, when I was writing a check. But all and all life is beautiful, the sun is shining, and I looking forward to life instead of dreading how many pills are left? when's the next dr. appointment and so forth and so on. I truly believe the medication I was taking caused the sicknesses I've experienced and a whole fleet of doctors couldn't find anything wrong with me. You get tired of being passed around, referred, stuck in the arm for another blood sample. I've been around the block more than once and now with the Grace of God, along with sub and a looong taper plan, my body, mind and spirit will be healed...brosid
brosid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2006, 10:48 PM   #144
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Hi y'all:

I have a small favor to ask of you. My only topic on the board is "Suboxone and Depression". Second to the NAABT topic, it is the most frequented site on this Board. There is a reason for that. Depression has a strong link to opiates addiction.

I am trying to collect as many stories as possible on the subject of depression, addiction and suboxone. I hope to use them eventually to lobby for approval of sub for treatment of refractory depression.

I continue to note that almost all new sub patients cite the miraculous anti-depressant qualities of buprenorphine/suboxone. If you would take a few moments to write a short post about the impact of sub treatment on your depression, you may help advance approval of this miraculous antidepressant. Thank you.

Please post your responses under my topic "Suboxone and Depression."

Once again, thank you.

Robert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - leeglegle on 01/18/2006 14:12:28
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2006, 09:54 AM   #145
Jaywalker
Senior Member
 
Posts: 610
Default

Good Morning Robert:

Per your request:

I initally became aware of buprenorphine (Suboxone) while speaking with my physician of several years at the Veteran's Administration. For over 12-1/2 years I had been on long-term narcotics (morphine, both MS-Contin and MS-IR) for injuries received in combat while a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment. These were severe, career-ending injuries, and although the morphine helped with the pain for a long time, I had noticed that although my prescription use had increased dramatically over the years, the pain was actually worsening, even when taking over 120 mg of morphine most days.

I have also been treated for depression and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)for over a decade. During this entire time I had been tried on a great many antidepressants (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Effexor, etc.) with little to no noticeable effect on my depression or PTSD symptoms. There were periods over the last ten years where I could barely leave my home due to depression, agorophobia and problems with hypervigilence and a very debilitating startle reflex.

My doctor told me that although the Veteran's Administration could not prescribe Suboxone, he recommended that I look for a private physician that could and would treat me. I did so.

I didn't know what to expect with Suboxone, but I was surprised and pleased to note that I was able to stop all narcotics use with little to no discomfort and had some pain relief in addition. During this period, I had stopped taking the antidepressants which I had taken over the years with little to no effect. Within days of starting my regular morning dose of 24 mg of Suboxone, I noted that the cloud of depression and feelings of hopelessness seemed to be clearing. I also noted that I wasn't as hypervigilent and I wasn't as distressed about getting out and about and doing things. After a little over two weeks on this medication, I am very pleased to report that I have noted a remarkable absence of what used to be very disturbing thoughts and dreams (actually nightmares and night terrors) and I wake up refreshed and not the least depressed about the day ahead, where in the past I dreaded each day.

When I initially started treatment with Suboxone, my physician gave me a trial prescription of a new antidepressant, Cymbalta. This prescription remains in my medicine cabinet, as yet unused.

My outlook these days is so much brighter, and people who are close to me comment on my brighter affect and less jaded view of the world in general. The depression that has haunted me and, in my opinion, helped to contribute to my chronic pain problems, is most definitely in remission, and I attribute this to the Suboxone I take every morning.

Of note, I did mention this to my "new" physician (who is prescribing the Suboxone to me) and he stated that he has also noted this to be a fairly common occurrence in his other patients as well, and he made the comment to me that he thinks this is a "rather miraculous medication."

I wholehearted agree, and feel blessed to have found out about this medicine. I plan to continue with this course of treatment, and seeing this physician, for the foreseeable future. If there is anything I can do to help advance the use of this medication for depression as well as addiction issues, I would be very pleased and "happy" to do so.

(Robert: I hope this is okay. Let me know if you need anything further or more detailed. Pleased to be of assistance. As a sidenote, I am in the process of contacting our representatives from Vermont in congress to request assistance from them in being able to obtain this medication through the Veteran's Administration. I'll keep you posted on any developments in that area.)

Be Well - and Happy....

Jay
Jaywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2006, 07:38 PM   #146
zacchia
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1
Default

Hi Robert,

I began taking pain meds several years ago for chronic headaches. At the same time I was being treated for depression. I tried all meds for depression none did anything for me. I tried stopping pain meds several times but my depression would be worse each time. The pain meds did work for my depression. This past September I landed in yet another rehab, they started me on suboxene within twenty minutes I felt normal for the first time in years. I was released from the rehab in 5 days. A couple of days after being home the depression set in worse then ever. I started to research suboxen and found several docs who prescribe it in my area. So in October of 05 I started taking 20 mg of suboxen a day. Since that day I feel normal I am able to live like a normal person. I plan to be on this medication for the rest of my life.

I would love to know how to go about contacting congressmen to tell them my story, so possibly they can change the laws about prescibing suboxen for depression.


Hope this helps,

ConnieZ
zacchia is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2006, 05:30 PM   #147
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Posted - 01/20/2006 : 12:39:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generally how long does treatment with this medicine last? I've only been on it for 2 weeks, but I'm already worrying myself about what I will do without it. Will my hydro cravings return? Will my depression return? Will I be strong enough to stay away from drugs? I'm terrified of a relapse, and though I've been clean for 2 weeks and feel amazing, I DO have urges and nostalgia for my high (which is insane because in the last few months of using I couldn't even GET high). I overcome this pretty easily, but with out subutex, will I be able to ?

AND.....

Wow! It was so nice to have blessings and encouragement from y'all! I have also noticed that my lifelong depression is gone COMPLETELY! I have moments of sadness, doubt, fear but they're gone as quickly as they come. And I'm able to remember that those feelings are normal from time to time. I focus on making the most of every moment in my life, good or bad. I would not wish depression on my worst enemy and, to those of you suffering from it, I'm soooo very sorry that you have to endure this pain and I hope for you peace and freedom from it.

As far as weight gain, I had lost about 50 pounds over the course of the last year (misery makes me fat), divorced my addicted husband, and got to my ideal weight (divorce is the best diet ever). I found that hydros made me sooooooooo hungry and now that I'm free of those I have maintained my weight. Subutex seems to give me a burst of energy and it's difficult for me to be idle for too long. I have become motivated to exercise, but I do crave sweets like mad. And, I definitely feel like I look better now that I'm off narcotics. The bags under my eyes are not so bad anymore, I feel like I look brighter and more alive. When you feel good, you look good, people notice that and are drawn to positive energy. Only great things can come of this.



--------------------------------
Hi Sogood,
welcome to this wild mix of crazy and wonderful people.I have been on sub for over 2 years and while I haven't gotten any better looking on the outside I feel great on the inside.Unlike any other med. I have been on I feel the whole spectrum of emotions and feelings.All the other"pills" left me like a zombie inside.The one thing that I have noticed is my life long depression issues seem to be nonexistant.That in itself is miraculous.It is so nice to know we are not alone in this.Addiction is a very lonely disease and I believe the old saying that "we are only as sick as our secrets"

do the next right thing,

Estaban

-------------------------------
These accidents led to my addiction to pain killers. I am very depressed, I sleep al the time and I sometimes dont leave my house for weeks at a time. I have an appointment with a neurologist on Monday January 23rd to see about an alternative to Oxy, Methadone etc. I take 80mg to 100mg a day of Methadone. I have a few questions if theres anyone that can help me.
1. Could Methadone be the cause of my depression?
2. Could this make me gain weight?
3. Did anyone lose weight on Sub?

I have called a few places but they wont give me very much information, but some did tell me that they will write me a script for one or two weeks and then I have to go back, I am curious if thats going to be all the time or just for the first few times.
I would like to hear from you if you can help.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
hey everyone. Theparagraph above A friend typed 4 me. she left out alot.I dont know how 2 type never had 2.so bare with me.no one said they would write a script I just herd that. what kind of Dr. write Sub. I was A very out going person B 4 All this started.I no everyone is laughing at me by now but hell im trying.have a lot 2 ask just a little nervous.ill wait on some responses if i get any. already getting better at this typing S--T PEACE OUT; BAD BOYZ 4 LIFE. d

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - Badboyz on 01/21/2006 00:03:37


Posted - 01/21/2006 : 13:14:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Badboyz Welcome dude.Have you ever heard people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones??We don't judge here.We're all F'ed up in our own way.This is a place to come be yourself and heal.I was on a lot of methadone and actually lost about 50lbs.My friend who is on it now starts Bupe in 2wks has gained 50lbs.You need to start cutting your methadone dose down a little at a time.You need to be down to 30mgs a day.I've heard of people going to bupe while taking more(me) without alot of problems but 30mgs is best.Sounds like you've been through alot.How is your pain??This drug works miricles!!It helps with depression also.Once I started on it I dumped my depression meds no problems.Keep us posted as to how you are doing as we will want to hear....PEACE SPANKY
leeglegle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-22-2006, 05:08 AM   #148
dodo
Senior Member
 
Posts: 780
Default

What is going on with this thread? Each time I access it for a new post, there isn't one.
dodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-22-2006, 03:11 PM   #149
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,316
Default

Doris, Robert's compiling depression-related stories here! It took me a few times to figure it out too.... -Mary
Mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-22-2006, 03:19 PM   #150
dodo
Senior Member
 
Posts: 780
Default

Thanks Mary!
dodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2014 Addiction Survivors