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Unread 09-27-2016, 05:43 PM   #1
Roxywarrior
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Default Tapering

Hello all. Currently, I'm tapering off of subutex. When I jump, it will be only 24 days I was on it. I'm following the advice of my doctor, an addiction psychiatrist. I chose him because he is more for using sub as a detox, as opposed to maintainince.

My addiction history is oxycodone. First thing I've ever touched that I've had a problem stopping. Anyway, it's been about 5 years, but the last 3 have been consistent. My most recent fully clean time was last June, I lasted about 90 days, a little bit over. Basically I stopped, used loperamide for two days (moderate dose) and Kratom very low dose for ten days. I was still suffering with no energy and no motivation. We were moving, and I started back up again because I felt so bad.

That lasted until the end of September, when I jumped back on sub again. I tapered very well, but went back again after I was stable at .5mgs. That was maybe 2 or possibly 3 weeks.

So, after that I was doing about 300mgs of oxygen daily. That really ramped up over the last two months. The last month I was doing 600-900 mgs daily. I wasn't feeling the oxygen at 600, so if I wanted to feel good I was pushing 750. On several days 900, and my last day, because I'm so smart, knowing I'd be on sub, I did 930. My last hoorah.

So, I decided since my way wasn't working, I had to do something different...hence seeing a doctor and going to meetings. I'm really going to get this chapter of my life closed. I'm tired of feeling like this, tired of wasting money, ignoring my fiance, and becoming someone I despise.

My jump day is Friday. I have prescribed comfort meds, clonidine, Valium, and trazadone. Doc also put me on Lexapro and testosterone. He believes that my cortisol was high causing the lack of energy, test was low obviously, along with dopamine and serotonin.

I believe in this doc, and he believes after ten days, I should feel about 80% better. I've had no trouble with the taper for the most part, except last night. I had some restlessness, which was my fault. I wanted to get a little lower, went from 1mg to half. I had to talk the 1mg because I could not sleep. Other than that one night, I've slept pretty well, and a few nights I've slept better than I have in years, and that was without the trazadone.

I've been walking daily, missed a few days. Worked everyday except the one day I was waiting to induct. I did work from home that day though. I'm a huge believer in staying busy.

I have an arsenal of aminos, herbs, and vitamins as well. Today I'm down to .5mg. I am allowed to take .75, but if I can sleep without it tonight I will. Then 2 days at .5mgs.

Anyway, sorry for the long story, I just needed to share, and I know I'll need additional support in the upcoming days. I used sub about 4 years back, before I knew what it really was. I abused the hell out of it for 6 months or so. I was taking 2-3 8mg strips daily. I tapered that over a week or 2 and jumped... That was a living hell. I had moved and had no connects and suffered for 4 months before getting back to normal. Then, of course, I found a connect. Which led me to this disaster.

Any additional advice is welcome. Thanks for reading.
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Unread 09-28-2016, 07:28 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Roxywarrior, welcome. It sounds like you have a different game plan this time which is good. Is your doctor also engaging you in therapy?

When you think about it in percentages, going from 1mg to .5mg is a 50% drop, so that could be a bit much. But if you can stick to it, fine, if not, it's better to go up to .75mg than to risk relapse.

Seems like you have everything in place. Try to push yourself out with the walking. Any type of exercise will get your natural endorphins going, which is what you want.

Keep us posted, we're rooting for you!

Nancy
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Unread 09-28-2016, 09:05 AM   #3
Roxywarrior
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Hi Nancy, thank you for your feedback. I did end up taking .75mgs in total yesterday, I was experiencing some restless limbs last night and was unable to fall asleep. I've been stable after 2 doses for every drop in the last week or so, prior to that I had no issues to dropping at all. Today and tomorrow I'm. Scheduled for .5mg, but I am going to try to skip the morning doses and take it in the evening so I can sleep better. I know these last 2 days will be difficult, and Friday probably won't be a great day. Weekend won't be too good I'm sure neither. Originally the doc had me planned to jump next week but I was able to taper fast and very comfortably for the first 2 maybe 2 and a half weeks. It's also my birthday next weekend, and I know my fiance will plan something, so I asked if I could jump this week so I could function next week. Doc was OK with it since my taper has gone so well, I'm going to meetings, and I also see him weekly.

He is extremely supportive, he spent over an hour with me on my first visit, I spend at least 30 minutes with him every week, plus I have his personal cell number if I need him for anything. He is an excellent doctor, is an addict himself, in active recovery for over ten years, still goes to meetings. He recommended a great meeting for me, which was his home group. When I first went I met some incredible people, and he is well known in that group and highly respected.

I plan on continuing to see him every week. Just for informational purposes here is my taper:

Induction- I was able to get my script filled and take it home. I was able to wait 26 hours before I took my first 2mgs, which I wasn't feeling too bad yet but it was getting late and I needed sleep, restless limbs were driving me crazy. That's always my worst symptom.

Induced at 4mg, allowed dose for day was 14mg

2 24mg (which I regret because I felt bad all day anyway, I thought it might help but it didn't do much) rec dose 28mg.

3 16mg rec dose 20mg
4 14mg rec dose 18mg
5 12mg rec dose 16mg
6 10mg rec dose 14mg
7 8mg rec dose 12mg (started to stabilize on this day)
8 7mg rec dose 12mg
9 6mg rec dose 10mg
10 4mg rec dose 8mg
11 3mg rec dose 8mg
12 3mg rec dose 6mg
13 2mg rec dose 6mg
14 1.5mg rec dose 5mg
15 1.5mg rec dose 4mg
16 1mg rec dose 4mg (planned to take 1.5 again but felt so good I actually forgot my 2nd dose)

17 1mg rec dose 4mg
18 1mg rec dose 3mg (tried to drop to .5 but had restless limbs)
19 .75 mg rec dose 3mg (again tried to drop to .5mg but restless limbs)

Day 20...thats today. I haven't taken anything yet, and feel pretty decent. I know I can make it to the afternoon at least today, but I want to try to stretch it to tonight so I can sleep. I don't think it pays to take my dose split today, not sure if anyone agrees.

Also, when I said recommended dose, those were the limits he put me on, if I needed more. He wrote out the entire taper plan and I asked if I could get by on a lower dose would that be OK. He was more than agreeable as long as I didn't go too fast. The second week I went to see him I think he thought I was going too fast, he did mention that I shouldn't go that fast. I just feel really good for the second week. The first 4 days were uncomfortable for me. Especially day 2. I was a complete waste of life. I did manage to go out to eat with a friend, who has no idea of what I'm going through. It was an absolute torture of a meal. I forced myself to eat and she had no idea thankfully.

Anyway, I'm.off to start my day. God bless you all. I'm tired, a little nervous, but I am going to beat this once and for all.
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Unread 09-28-2016, 09:13 PM   #4
Roxywarrior
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I made it through the day with no subutex. Thank God. Went to a meeting after work, walked in the door 5 minutes ago. I'm exhausted. Last 2 nights have been difficult with sleep. I hope tonight to be better since I managed to save my does for bedtime. Damn restless limbs drive me crazy. Hope everyone else is doing well!!
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Unread 09-29-2016, 07:18 AM   #5
NancyB
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Hi Roxywarrior, how did you sleep last night? Hopefully switching your dose up to night helped and you got some good sleep.

You will beat this!! Keep us posted!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 09-29-2016, 08:41 AM   #6
Roxywarrior
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Good morning Nancy. Dosing at night worked very well. Was able to sleep most of the night peacefully. I have a long day ahead though, really not looking forward to it... But I'm excited and a little nervous about the last day of subutex.
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Unread 09-29-2016, 09:19 AM   #7
wrkingtowardslight
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Hi Roxywarrior! Just to give a brief background, I was on Subs for approximately 1.5 years and tapered off at .5mgs just over 30days ago. My jump off wasn't as easy as yours probably will be (still cannot sleep without trazadone and a benedryl)..but in a way, I feel the pain ultimately made me stronger and more dedicated to keeping my life on track. As they say, no pain no gain, right? Anyway, it sounds like you have a great doctor on your side who wants you to succeed.. As do I. Remember about PAWS (post acute withdrawal symptoms ) and keep in mind that although the physical withdrawal maybe done more rapidly, you still may not feel like 'yourself' for a bit (including being exhausted)..it is your body & brain healing, so give it time and be patient with (and proud of ) the progress you do make each day or week. Like I said, I'm new to being off subs too, so def am no expert.. But thought ID share what I've experienced and come to know and to let you know Im cheering for you! Keep us posted, and stay positive!
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Unread 09-29-2016, 09:47 AM   #8
Roxywarrior
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Thank you very much for sharing your experience and your well wishes. I went through a crazy suboxone experience, which will be 4 years in January. I abused it without researching it. Was on it for 6 months, using 2-3 straps daily. I tapered down to maybe a half a strip within 2 weeks. It was 120+ days before I healed. I honestly didn't sleep for more than 2 hours for about 3 weeks. It was torture. I had a lazy eye as a kid, which healed. It reared its ugly head and I was literally crossed eyed for 4 months. Not too mention how bad I felt, no energy, motivation, and extremely emotional. That experience stayed with me, which was why I wanted this quick taper.

Anyway, I wish you the best and I pray for you that you have an easy time. I do know it will get better. Hang in there brother.

Nancy, I've read in other threads where you were asking a out pupils, mine are still constricted. They were all day yesterday too, and my subutex dose for the last three days is only .75mg. And under 1mg average over the last week. Does that sound normal?
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Unread 09-29-2016, 08:11 PM   #9
Roxywarrior
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Just returned home from work. Another look g day, but that's good it keeps me busy. Day went really well, I had a busy day. Had a very important meeting, which I was on point with. Also had to train a new employee, went well. Also had to interact with another office, and I was able to get by. Tonight's my last night. Tomorrow the big day. I'm still nervous, but really looking forward to it.
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Unread 09-29-2016, 09:07 PM   #10
NancyB
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Hi Roxywarrior, wow, sounds like a great day at work. Busy is definitely good and you sure had that going on today!

Are you taking any of the comfort meds yet? Benzos and Trazadone could restrict pupils, along with the opiate (bupe).

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you tomorrow. I KNOW you WILL do this!!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 09-30-2016, 08:53 AM   #11
Roxywarrior
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Good morning Nancy!!

Not really. A few days ago, I believe it was Tuesday and Wednesday I tried the trazadone, but it didn't put me out. I am prescribed 1-2 per evening, I only tried one, which is 100mg. I think it made my rls worse unfortunately. I believe it has an effect on histamine, similar to benadryl, but much stronger. I know antihistamines can effect rls significantly.

Today is the big day... I'll get through the day, just worried about the misery tonight. Please pray for me.
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Unread 10-01-2016, 10:01 AM   #12
NancyB
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Hi Roxywarrior, how did you sleep last night? Have you tried the Hylands Restful Legs? Magnesium, Calcium and Potassium have also helped others here over the years. Yes, benedryl is a toss up - for some it exacerbates their RLS, for others it wires them out and then there are those who sleep like babies after taking it.

For sleep, if you like tea, chamomile tea has worked for some. Also Valerian Root and Melatonin. Some people have taken Valerian a couple of hours before bed and melatonin at bedtime. Others alternate one on one night, the other the next night. Again, it's all in the individual response to the supplements.

I hope you can keep busy enough to keep your mind from wandering on how you feel.

Have you seen Runner's post-jump thread? She has really good input on what helped her:
http://addictionsurvivors.org/vbulle...ad.php?t=29803

Keep us posted! Keeping my fingers crossed it's smooth for you!!

Nancy
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Unread 10-01-2016, 04:01 PM   #13
Roxywarrior
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Hi Nancy. I did sleep some last night, not feeling horrible today, but feeling it. I did make it out of the house and met with my sponsor, so that killed a couple of good hours. I failed to mention, I take melatonin as well. I've tried valerian root in the past, and it seemed like it had an adverse effect where I couldn't sleep on it.

I'm hanging in there. I know the worst is to come. Thank you for checking up on me. I'll check that thread out. I'm going to make it this time. I'm going to work the steps, and take this seriously, no matter how much I don't like aa/na at this point. I K of I need to do things differently.

My sponsor is a great guy, and he knows my doc very well. They used to goto the same meetings together. This group was highly recommended by my doc, it's aa but it's a men's group, and it's people that are considered my peers, lots of people my age, and professionals. They are even open with na people and have accepted me with open arms. It's a great feeling.

My sponsor and I share a lot. He was in a similar dose, he was a business owner, like I am. I am really happy I met him.
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Unread 10-02-2016, 06:53 AM   #14
NancyB
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Hi Roxywarrior, that's great that you got out and met your sponsor. Especially since you have so much in common. He'll be a good in-person support for you. I admire you for sticking with na/aa even though you're not liking it that much. But I think it will help you because you are doing things a little different this time.

I hope you slept ok last night. Check out how much melatonin you're taking and if you can increase it, that might help too.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 10-03-2016, 11:18 AM   #15
Leo
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Good work matey.

Gotta say your taper seemed rather fast. But you're off the buprenorphine now and the main thing is not to return no matter how the addicted brain thinks and feels. Watch the valium, you don't want to replace one dependency with another. It's realistic to feel rather shitty for a couple of weeks to a month and in my experience its weekly that things improve rather than daily as with the short acting very strong opioids. Seems to drag on a bit more and I reckon its better to be prepared for that. Though, that said, the withdrawals will be more minor with subs. Rather an irritation instead of a big bad aaarrrgghh!

Stick with it mate. You'll get plenny o help here.

Best wishes from over the pond.

Leo UK
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