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Unread 01-06-2010, 10:04 AM   #51
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Dammit! I missed chat again! I just cant remember! "(putting note on computer)
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Unread 01-09-2010, 07:14 AM   #52
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Ok, Im reading step 2 and Im having a tough time with this one......I believe in God, and know he is all around me, but Im feeling like it was ME who made the decision to end the life of addiction. If I wouldnt have made the conscious effort of going and getting treatment, I wouldnt even be here. Oh, boy, I need some help on this one...............HELP!
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Unread 01-09-2010, 10:18 AM   #53
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Do you have the AA "Twelve and Twelve"? That book explains all the steps far better than I ever could. Our local group had step meetings each month, each time a different step or tradition is discussed.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 04:26 PM   #54
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Tom makes a good point about the 12 and 12 book, further in most decent size areas I have been in, it has always been easy to find a step study group meeting which takes place weekly.

Deanna, I understand what your saying and it is perfectly normal to feel that way, because it was "you" which made the decision to enter recovery!

Our higher power can only best help us, when we are willing to help ourselves! Our higher power could open door after door for us or place the right people in our lives to help us, but, unless we walk through the open door or accept the help, it is all for not.

So your not off base here in my opinion, your simply being realistic and honest about the role you played and are playing in your recovery!

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Unread 01-10-2010, 06:30 AM   #55
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Thanks Mike, Im glad you understand what Im saying, and Im glad you wrote what you did, because I truly believe that the whole time I was suffering, my higher power (God) was just waiting for me to surrender. Once I did, everything in my life got better. It was like, "there you go girl, you have now found peace!" So, maybe I do completely understand the step, I just want to be sure. And , no Toms, I dont have the book. I should probably get one though seeing how I want to really learn this stuff. Deanna
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Unread 01-10-2010, 10:18 AM   #56
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I've never been clear on who actually wrote the Big Book and the 12 & 12....I assume it was Bill W. I'm not a person who can quote those books chapter and verse, but I do feel that they can provide great clarity, especially regarding how the program works. Given the wide range of groups who use those same twelve steps, whoever wrote them left quite a legacy!
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Unread 01-11-2010, 06:59 AM   #57
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Hi Toms. Yep, I believe it was Bill W., I dont know his last name, but I remember hearing about him, he sure did leave quite a legacy.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 12:21 PM   #58
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Bill Wilson....he was the first, followed by Doctor Bob. There is a movie starring James Wood as Bill ("My Name is Bill W.")
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Unread 01-12-2010, 08:22 AM   #59
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Ahh, yes, thats right. Ok, so back to step 2. Lets talk some more about it.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 10:05 AM   #60
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One point I've heard time and again is the notion that spinning one's wheels over a given step is often indication that, perhaps their attention might best focus on the previous step. I think our society is quite goal-oriented, which fosters the notion we must plow through obstacles (steps) to achieve completion of a given task.

My whole life worked that way: going through each grade to finish high school, ranks in Scouts, degrees in college. So, when it became apparent I had no choice but to attempt working the steps, I naturally wanted to sail forward and be "done" with them. But I had to learn that, with the exception of couple specific and tangible actions, "working" the steps is a continuous process, and that we never "finish".

For me, "working" the first three steps every day is the foundation of my recovery. And the simplest (I have to have it simple) way I can do that is to affirm the words "I can't, He can, I think I'll let Him" daily. It all boils down to unseating "I" (me) as master of the universe, relinquishing that position to "Him" (my HP). If I "do" that daily (and usually MUCH more often) I'm positioned to continue recovery that day.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 11:54 AM   #61
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Well put Toms! It is a lifetime journey!
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Unread 01-13-2010, 06:22 AM   #62
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Its not that I want to be done with the steps, I just want to talk about them to better understand them...........
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Unread 01-13-2010, 10:11 AM   #63
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Deanna we can talk as long as you like! Any question you have helps everyone! Nancy says that way more people read than post! So keeping that in mind.....any questions you post REALLY help the people that are not able to ask! SOOOOOOOO ask away! wink
Oh and talk! Talking about it also helps!
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Unread 01-13-2010, 07:34 PM   #64
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Hey Deanna!

IMO, step 2 and 3 are the most important, complex and difficult of all the steps, including the dreaded steps 4 & 5 (that was a joke, people). Don't let anyone tell you you are spinning your wheels. It is so important that you truly understand what this step means to you.

Good luck and have fun!

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Unread 01-14-2010, 06:20 AM   #65
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Thankyou Lily. You said it just like I feel when you wrote "truly understand what this step means to you". Everyone is different, and their perceptions of the steps might not quite be the same, so I like to get lots of imput to just take it all in. When I do these, Im gonna do them whole-heartedly. Thanks!
And thankyou Gotitang too!!!
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Unread 01-14-2010, 09:46 AM   #66
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I rooted out a copy of the 12&12. Here's a few sentences:

"...AA does not demand that you believe anything. All of its 12 steps are but suggestions. .....to get sober and stay sober, you don't have to swallow all of Step Two right now. Looking back, I find that I took it piecemeal myself. ....all you really need is a truly open mind. Just resign from the debating society and quit bothering yourself with such deep questions as whether it was the hen or the egg that came first."
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Unread 01-15-2010, 07:58 AM   #67
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Oh, dude, you just do not get what Im trying to say!!!!! I read though the posts you write, and if these steps are just "suggestions", then a lot of what you are writing sounds hypocritical to me. Im not trying to be rude (or am I....) but I came to this thread for guidance, not for you to basically tell me Im overthinking the whole thing and "spinning my wheels" and making me feel like shit. Ive got 16 months of addiction remission under my belt now, so I've got a little bit of knowledge how recovery works FOR ME. Maybe its time for me to hit the ignore button...............
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Unread 01-15-2010, 09:21 AM   #68
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It is just discussion material, not a lecture. Please don't take it personally. I look at these threads just like a meeting discussion. If something helps....great! If not, why nor add your own take?
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Unread 01-17-2010, 07:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by deanna View Post
Thanks Mike, Im glad you understand what Im saying, and Im glad you wrote what you did, because I truly believe that the whole time I was suffering, my higher power (God) was just waiting for me to surrender. Once I did, everything in my life got better. It was like, "there you go girl, you have now found peace!" So, maybe I do completely understand the step, I just want to be sure. And , no Toms, I dont have the book. I should probably get one though seeing how I want to really learn this stuff. Deanna


Hey Deanna ............ I like what you said about "God waiting for you to surrender"

I believe that is much of what took place with me as well. As much as I rely on my Higher Power (God in the Christian sense for me) I believe that God is not different than my wife, my parents or other supportive people in my life, as in, it has to begin and end with me and what I am willing to do.

They each can love me, they each can always be there for me, but, none of them can help me until I set up and begin to help myself.

My higher power might have a "bigger plan" for me, but, until I am willing to be a active participant in the plan, well it just ain't gonna happen! lol

I don't feel that my higher power, just like my wife, parents children or others were wanting me to suffer, but, they could really do little to change that, until I was willing and until I took the needed steps.

The recovery journey is different for each of us, just as working the steps is different for each of us, but, I think you are hitting on one very common must for all of us, that is that it begins and ends with exactly what we are willing to do for ourselves!

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Unread 01-17-2010, 08:17 AM   #70
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Thanks for sharing that Omike. I like the way you write things....it helps me a lot. Deanna
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Unread 03-17-2010, 10:46 PM   #71
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Hey Guys,
My problem is not admitting I am powerless. Got it... and I agree that I am out of control. So, logically if I am powerless, there must be something that I can find peace in and surrender to. I just am not your traditional Christian. I was raised in a very religious family. Organized church just doesn't do it for me. I have found church to be a place that does not fulfill me. I am very liberal socially. I can not do anything that is against gay people or their lifestyle choice. I always feel that I am spiritually connected to others, but not because of some being. I feel connected through love. The act of giving and loving is the connection for me, not God. I do not think it is wrong to believe in God, but it just doesn't do it for me. It feels harsh..you're saved or you're cursed. The Bible for me has been more of metaphors for life, not a literal book. I just don't know where I fit in. I am sure Jesus was a fine prophet, but what about Mohammed or Buddah or any other prophet that spoke to people say Joseph Smith for the Mormons. It just seems like each religion is against the other, and I don't know how any person can tell another that their beliefs are wrong. And why does every religion think that gay people are immoral? HELP! I just don't have a structured belief system. Frankly, I don't know what I believe. I am not sure if I am an atheist, but I do not believe the Bible literally, and I find it hard to put my finger on spirituality. I know I am out of control, insane (not literally, but..), powerless .... of course, but I don't know who to turn my power over to. Obviously, I am confused. I am opened to any advice. Thanks!
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Unread 03-18-2010, 09:33 AM   #72
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I think you sound as though you "get it" more than you think, Fargo. I had the same kind of feelings about my church upbringing. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like your confusion stems from labeling rather than the concept of a higher power. Accepting that HP, *whatever "it" is* exists gets one pretty much through Step 2, IMO. For myself, coming to grips that HP was not myself was the "biggie".....it was as simple as that!
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Unread 03-18-2010, 09:41 AM   #73
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As we described in the outline of this folder, it is Steps w/o Stigma, meaning that medical options to recovery and religious and spiritual understandings are removed from being a stumbling block for us.

Finding help in the 12 steps is not about debating or even understanding things theologically. In fact, those type of debates and discussions are counter productive to the effort.

The 12 Steps can benefit the Atheist just as effectively as the Religious and/or Spiritual. Further, being Spiritual is not really the same as being Religious, in regard to any religion.

So questions about the Bible, Prophets, Social Sexual Preferences and so on, really need to be left at the door, as they do not fit this folder and its purpose. As it is our goal here, to knock down and ignore all of mans bias and personal preferences and/or discrimination!

However, with that said, when it comes to understanding the Steps and gaining suggestions on how to find ways to benefit from them, we can try to help.

So let me try to offer something in regard to "powerless" ........... This can be confusing and it can be a tough one for many. It is human nature to not be powerless about anything, so we have this natural resistance built into us or most of us do! Second we must keep in mind that the 12 Steps first purpose is to help us with the disease of addition, hence, we were or are powerless in that regard or we would not be here to begin with. We need or needed help because we could not manage it ourselves. So for many of us, part of the healing process began with admitting the truth, this disease has beaten us and we are powerless in beating it on our own and we need help. It does not mean that we are totally helpless and powerless people in general or with all aspects of our life.

Also please understand, I am merely offering my personal understanding of the steps and my suggestions on how to approach this issue of powerless. As with anything, it is a little different for each person.

In regard to the "Higher Power" issue, that can and will be vastly different for each person! For me personally it is pretty straight forward and traditional being a Christian. However, it works just as well and just as easily for the Atheist or non religious, but spiritual. I have worked with many Atheist and my suggestion to them about the higher power has always been this ............ We need to seek a entity which is more powerful than us. So try to focus on making your home group your higher power. Why? Simple, combined they have more experience than you, they have more strength than you and combined, they can be a force which can help you when you need it and cannot do it by yourself. When I say "home group" I am speaking about the home group of your favorite 12 Step meeting.

Others like myself find that Angels work better. Though I am religious and fairly traditional, I am more spiritual and for myself find that my Angels and loved ones who have already passed play a more direct role in my life.

So it is different for each of us. I think making it anything is counter productive, the Higher Power has to be something which is logical within ones life and real to them. It must be truly a higher power than them. That is why for the non religious or for the non spiritual I suggest ones home group, as the combination of their strength and experience is more powerful than ours is, in the single sense.

I hope this helps some and didn't add to confusion. I'm sure others will be along with their take on things as well.

Mike
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Unread 03-18-2010, 09:52 AM   #74
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Toms,
I just want to make sure I understood what you wrote, it doesn't matter what my HP is, so long as I realize I can't do it for myself. Is that it? I do have a labeling issue, I would agree. Just the idea that there is something outside of myself, that I could turn to. My problem is, I think, well, one of my many problems is, that I do not know who to turn my power over to. Am I over thinking this? I believe in the goodness of people that there is a spirituality in life, but it doesn't have a name. Should I just give it a name and move on?
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Unread 03-18-2010, 09:56 AM   #75
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Mike,
Sorry, do I need to read something before I post. I am asking out of genuine ignorance, not sarcasm. I get what you are saying and I appreciate it, but I feel like I broke a rule. Can you let me know? Thanks,
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Unread 03-18-2010, 10:02 AM   #76
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No Fargo, there is no requirement to read anything. I was just trying to reasure you that stigma and bias is something we remove here, so it does not become counter productive in ones recovery. I was trying to resure you that religious likes and dislikes are not permitted to dampen anyones ability to gain something positive here from the steps.

That is why I added the emotions I did. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

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Unread 03-18-2010, 12:19 PM   #77
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Well, Fargo, I guess I was trying to emphasize the "of our own understanding" part of the Step. Its impossible to "judge" someone's concept, and even attempting to do so would be out of line. IMO, the very notion of a higher power, by definition, fits the bill that *HP is not me*. In my own case, with that religious upbringing, I seemed to have come to believe that the stuff I had done (or was doing) was so bad that I was beyond help.

I have to agree with Mike about theological discussions should not be here. My observation from years of hearing endless discussion about Step 2 is that many of us tend to over-complicate things. I know I did, and see doing so as a subconscious way of sabotaging my own progress. Spinning the wheels over Step 2 provided an excuse for me to think I couldn't "get it" and that "AA was not for me". I did not want to follow the program, attend meetings....what I wanted was to be able to use without consequences!

I was fortunate (though I certainly didn't see it that way at the time) to have an oldtimer for a sponsor who did not tolerate that behavior for long. He confronted me with my self-destructive tendencies and kept on me to quit screwing around, do the best I could *at that time*, and to move on. He'd tell me over and over that there is no standing still in the program, we either move forward....or slide back. He'd also say that difficulty with a given step was an indication that more work was needed on the previous step.
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Unread 03-18-2010, 10:43 PM   #78
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Toms,
Thank you, for taking time to help me. I am working on it, and I am rethinking stuff. It just is hard, really hard (as I am sure you know). But, really thanks for caring enough to even answer my questions.
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Unread 03-18-2010, 10:50 PM   #79
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Mike,
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. Still working on it. All the best to you. I can tell you care about this website, and you are very kind to all of us. I hope your journeys a good one.
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Unread 03-19-2010, 08:15 AM   #80
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Fargo I hope you can fine Peace & Healing in your life.

Toms is correct IMO, it begins with in ourselves and is then projected out from there!

Good luck to you.

Mike
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Unread 03-19-2010, 08:59 AM   #81
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Well, Fargo, I guess I was trying to emphasize the "of our own understanding" part of the Step. Its impossible to "judge" someone's concept, and even attempting to do so would be out of line. IMO, the very notion of a higher power, by definition, fits the bill that *HP is not me*. In my own case, with that religious upbringing, I seemed to have come to believe that the stuff I had done (or was doing) was so bad that I was beyond help.

I have to agree with Mike about theological discussions should not be here. My observation from years of hearing endless discussion about Step 2 is that many of us tend to over-complicate things. I know I did, and see doing so as a subconscious way of sabotaging my own progress. Spinning the wheels over Step 2 provided an excuse for me to think I couldn't "get it" and that "AA was not for me". I did not want to follow the program, attend meetings....what I wanted was to be able to use without consequences!

I was fortunate (though I certainly didn't see it that way at the time) to have an oldtimer for a sponsor who did not tolerate that behavior for long. He confronted me with my self-destructive tendencies and kept on me to quit screwing around, do the best I could *at that time*, and to move on. He'd tell me over and over that there is no standing still in the program, we either move forward....or slide back. He'd also say that difficulty with a given step was an indication that more work was needed on the previous step.

Toms ........... such good suggestions and advice! I too had an old timer and I think that personal experince which he brought to the process was the difference in my being able to turn my life around for so many years.

Looking within, accepting that, being totally honest with ourselves and then beginning the process of changing that is a absolute IMO to long term recovery.

Amen, be it with any method or tool we use, IMO we beat this diseaese by staying well ahead of it. I was able to do that for a long time, but, when I let that process slow, the disease caught me and 20 years later bit me again!

Finally, how so, so true. Be it with the steps or private therapy. Going back and reworking something and spending more time on it is so much better than just pushing forward only grasping half of the picture. There is no failue in stepping back and going back over things, in fact, it is more healthy than not!

Good stuff Toms, thank you!!

Mike
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Unread 03-19-2010, 09:43 AM   #82
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I used to hear that it didn't matter what your concept was, just that you had one. They'd say you could use a doorknob as HP (something that seemed idiotic to me). I think the point was that endless arguments such as whether HP should be referred to as "He" or "She" are counterproductive. In my case, I had to stop worrying about "getting it right" and get busy.

I think I've mentioned my little daily thing, its certainly not original:

1) I can't,
2) He can,
3) I think I'll let Him.

That is so simple that, using it to "work" those first three Steps each day is a breeze (in theory). I had to get over my belief that working the Steps was drudgery, something requiring my nose to the grindstone, and learn ways to incorporate them into my life. For me, things that aren't enjoyable tend not to be repeated.
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Unread 03-25-2010, 10:23 PM   #83
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I have worked the steps but am sure I need to revisit them all again.
Here goes I surely know I am powerless and my beliefs are in our earth I do believe in God I just think it goes beyond that for me. I dont go to church anymore I pray at the cemetary to my Grammy and Campy and I talk to them from home if I pray. I light candles and pray for a better world for all people so I am spiritual and guess that means I believe in a higher power even if it dosent have aname persay. I believe I can give my life over to a better way and allow it to guide me.
Fargo I hope this maybe helps you too. If you do not have an organized religion but are a spiritual person that is enough to work this step and you can always revisit it too. Dont let the fact that you do not view God as your higher power stop you. I still say thank you every morning to our earth the air the ocean the soil under my feet. I think we are all connected in spirit and I do also believe in God I just see it a little differently I guess, But we are all individuals and come from different backgrounds so find what you believe in your heart and let that be your guide. I celebrate the old religion but I dont call myself a witch I or do spells I just think that the way they thought of our earth and showed such reverance for it is beautiful so for me it works, look in your heart and you will find what works for you too.
I find comfort in the fact that I can ask for help and allow my earth to guide me and give me signs that point me in the right direction. I know I am powerless and cannot manage on my own.
~Michele
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Unread 08-14-2011, 04:23 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Hi,

Great discussion. I usually post on the Alcohol forum and only have a few months sober. Never having attended an AA meeting I've been trying to get some background info. I've got to tell you the hole God thing has been one of the big obstacles for me. The other being I like to listen to others, not talk about myself. It's not that I don't believe in a higher power - because I do. I have trouble accepting how turning everthing over to a higher power is going to solve my problems with addiction.

With that said, from just reading through the steps and subtracting the GOD issue - the steps do seem to provide a healthy and positive way to live and learn, which is what bible is about. I do agree with living a healthy and positive life.


Saint
I Have to come in at this point. I was raised in church (Baptist) and attended youth till about 15 or so. Already smoking cigs and weed at this point, I disconnected and began a 25-year downward spiral. By 17, I had shot crystal meth (real stuff in Dallas), cocaine, done LSD, huffed different substances, and anything else I could get. I did 'alright' for a few years from maybe 19-24, only weed and alcohol, then when I met Jennifer, all hell broke loose. So began a 6 year whirlwind of crack cocaine madness. Lying, stealing,B&E with larceny (4 counts), not an honest bone, totally self-seeking and heartless, ruthless, faithless. I found myself behind a customer's house one Saturday, weeping in hopelessness. Pouring down rain, I looked up at the sky and I proclaimed to a seemingly so distant God ever so sincerely: "I'm out of steam Lord, and I don't see any light. PLEASE, please just take this desire from me. I CAN NOT stop, and if you don't help me, I'm gonna die. Jennifer had always wormed her way back into my life when I tried to create distance, and even when we were apart, I could not stop, and it didn't matter how much I was determined to. 6-8 mos. after my prayer, we just seemed to coordinate this realization that we were no good for each other, and had no future together. We agreed on a MUTUAL separation. This was unreal to me, for her to admit that and move on the thought. We separated, I was 30, went to Ma's house, and started an interior trim business. The first weekend, I had several hundred dollars, and the thought did cross my mind but for the first time, I didn't act on it. After that, I confidently and truly saw a future. Never again did I consider that stupid cycle of destruction. That is a bona fide miracle! However, instead of making Christ Lord of my life, I simply was grateful but figured I could take it from there. At 32, I slipped on stairs and tore lumbar ligaments and slightly herniated L3-4,L4-5, and L5-S1. Doc gave me perc 5s, then 7.5s, then 10s, then roxy 15s, then pain clinic for oxy 20s, 50 mic/hr. fentanyl patches, 11 mos. into this now, they suddenly cut me off and I jumped on the big methadone clinic train. 6 YEARS at up to 160 mg/day. I had never known I could be so pain-free. 5 years gone by, I was complacent with the liquid handcuffs that would not let me vacation or miss any day but automatic take-home Sunday. My pain started to come through, and a voice of reality started coming through."You know you CAN'T take this life to the grave", "You know when you do detox, you're near a decade older, you've cheated effects of aging so long, think about it", "So what happens if you get cancer, what do you think they can do for you? You're maxed out!".....Well, I bulged a disc in my neck directly into my spinal cord (spinal stenosis), lost all feeling in my hands, they tingled and burned constantly, and eventually had maybe 40% strength in them, with my balance, motor skills and coordination ruined. All I had was my hands all my life. It quickly became obvious they were everything, and now nothing. I had followed my evil desires and made my evil plans until I smashed myself into this tiny airtight box called DESPAIR. A very good neurologist talked me into a cervical titanium fusion and coming out of that, I felt my mortality and fragility like I could not imagine. I would be out of work for a while, and I felt so useless and lost. About day 7 or so after, I was laying on my left side in bed, smoking a cigarette when I noticed I could smell the incision in my neck. The smell of rot and death jolted me. I heard God's voice clearly say " You're still dying, GET UP." I just got up and walked to the living room and laid back down on the couch. Then turned on the TV and went to TCT (Total Christian television). 3 days passed, and as I laid there, God used certain pastors to speak directly and personally to me, and I drifted in and out of sleep in between. It's like He would wake me from dead sleep,"This one's for you". I was mesmorised and in total awe at how he opened my soul to download me, using parts of the brain we can't use in our own will. The 3rd day dawned, I had not slept as He had my heart burning within me all night with pictures and revelations of my life and how I got where I was at, all the mistakes I had made. One pastor said to invite the Holy Spirit into my home, verbally tell Him He's welcome. It felt funny, but I was ready to meet Him on His terms as He personally and intimately was revealing His infinite power to me. Pastor Dr. Charles Stanley delivered the final blow with a sermon titled "How to love your mother". I determined then I would go to my mother's house at daylight and spend time, not asking for or needing anything, I hadn't done in so long. My heart and will were shattered. After I got there, I began to feel a physical ache in my heart, very painful as if it was going to stop like there was immense pressure. Fear grew to terror and desperation inside me. I snapped, and looked at my mother sitting in the yard swing and asked her to pray for me. As she started, I heard nothing she said but a door was opened and a vision and experience of a lifetime began. All these pictures of my life started to race by me like a high-speed slide show, and while some were 25-30 years old, there was no time deterioration of the memories. As if from that day, they were God's pictures of it, the One who does not answer to time but owns it. He showed me how he saw it all, knew all, and was there to deliver me from my stupidity over and over with infallible love and divine protection. Then He drew me to surrender with concern for my mother. As the pain grew somehow stronger and the fear, he spoke to my heart I could not be partial, wishy-washy, or insincere. I was taking His will over mine, if I wanted to live. In Holy remorse, I pleaded with Him not to let me die in front of my mother, not after she tried so hard and now I had such desire for redemption. The vision turned to a circular swinging gold ring, and each time it passed by my eyes, it was as if a "hole" I was looking through got smaller and tighter. I then remembered my mother telling me when I was only 10 or so," The Holy spirit is going to come to you several times in your life, you choose to accept His way and guidance, or reject it. But if you reject Him enough times, your heart will harden and that WINDOW of opportunity will close, and He'll never come to you again." At that point I grabbed the ring in acceptance, I told Him whatever His plans were, I'll take it. Just that fast, the pain eased off and I took the first weightless, breath of peace since I was a child. This was May 16, 2010. Jesus Christ is not an idea, a concept, or a "higher power." He's EVERYTHING good in our life whether we know it or not. It's totally different to know about God and to KNOW Him. He wants to know us, doesn't need us as he's totally self-sufficient but wants us because He loves us. From hopeless to fearless, He's still in the miracle business today, because my life IS one. For the sincere asking He wants to be the miracle in your life too. He knows us better than we know ourselves and still loves and wants us. He actually calls us His inheritance! BTW, I quit smoking weed and cigs(2-3 pks/day), 3 mg xanex a day, and 115 mg methadone. Turned and walked with Christ into a new tomorrow, now online for bachelors in psych to go into Substance abuse counseling! You can do it!

Last edited by Restored; 08-14-2011 at 04:27 PM..
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