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Unread 04-21-2011, 06:48 AM   #1
Jack123
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Unhappy Sleep Walking and Getting Hurt

Hi Folks,

This isn't something that happens only with Sub. But it does seem to have gotten much worse since I went back to Sub. I do remember it had gotten worse when I was on Sub for the 5 years. Unfortunately, I don't recall if it was happening before my injuries, and before I started pain meds. Back then all I did on a nightly basis was smoke Pot. At any rate, it started to get worse lately. I have started to fall. Last night was probably the worst ever. I must have fallen 4 or 5 times. I fall asleep and within 30 minutes I'm walking around, moving things, either on purpose or by accident. I don't know. Right now I am dead tired, but I'm afraid to try and sleep.

So does anyone else have a problem walking around, and doing things while not totally conscious?
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Unread 04-21-2011, 07:22 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Jack, what other meds are you taking? Anything like Ambien where that is a known side effect?

Hope you didn't hurt yourself.

Nancy
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Unread 04-21-2011, 09:42 PM   #3
Jack123
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Hi Nancy,

No. I'm not taking any kind of sleeping pills. I take Provigil several times a week to fight off chronic fatigue. I'd like to say it only happens on the nights after the days I take Provigil, but that's not true. It has gotten worse over the years. Occasionally, and I mean very rarely, I take some Ativan or Xanax to help sleep or for anxiety. But this is quite rare. What I'm wondering about is if you all here think it's coming from the opiates? If there's a chance it is, I better not tell the Sub doc. If no one else on any kind of opiates is having this happen, then I can ask him. My current Sub doc is a doc I have known for 11 years. It seems he hasn't been able to find his niche in medicine. When I met him he considered himself a General Internist with a side speciality of treating addiction. Then he tried to be a PM doc, and still with the addiction side thing. I saw that as being a conflict of interest. For whatever reasons, it didn't work out. Now he's doing addiction treatment as his #1 thing, but he still functions as a General Internist. So on the 1 hand I think maybe I should tell him about this, as a place to start. On the other, if he thinks opiates are casusing it, he may decide to cut me off Sub. And I'm not ready for that. There's no shortage of Sub docs in my area, but most are so very high priced that I can't pay them. This is why I want to know if other opiate users have this problem? At one time it was a minor problem, and even something to laugh about. I once woke up to find the black metal top of the stove jet sitting on my desk, with a bottle of soda sitting on top of that thing. It's like I thought I was going to warm up the soda or something. It escalated after going on Sub. I would wake up and be walking around the apt. I had no memory of this at all. Suddenly I'd be aware of almost falling over backwards and stop myself in the last second. The worst thing about this is I wasn't getting much sleep. But then last year, while on the big doses of opiate agonists for pain, I started to fall. I have gotten hurt several times. While I was on the Methadone I fell off a chair I had nodded out on, and almost broke my jaw bone. However, I'm not sure if that was the same phenomena.

So this isn't happening to anyone else here? If not, I'm not sure what kind of doc to go to about this.
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Unread 04-21-2011, 10:07 PM   #4
nan
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Hi Jack123-Maybe ask the dr about signing you up for a sleep disorder clinic. That way they hook you up and record your night's sleep, etc. and you might find an answer there. Idk, but thought I would mention that possibility.

nan
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Unread 04-22-2011, 07:01 AM   #5
wrongleftturn
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I was going to mention this same thing. It sounds like you need a sleep study done. they can watch you in a safe environment and then give you better advice from there. I am having trouble nodding out in the day myself, but i do know what mine are from, and its me getting use to the meds and not sleeping at night. I sleep maybe an hour and a half at night, and then i spend the rest sitting up in a chair smoking. I know, bad, but its the truth. In the day I can nod out out of the clear blue. Last week I cut my head open nodding out at my desk and falling over and hitting my head on the corner. I worry about doing this while driving, but my counselor seems to think my brain is operating a little different while driving so that it shouldn't happen that way,just while I am sitting still.

Good luck, keep us posted
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Unread 04-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #6
Jack123
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Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the suggestion. Occasionally I go to a Lung Doc who is also a sleep doc. The last time I was there, I asked about doing a sleep study. He told me to make an appointment, but he also said he was doubtful what it could show because I'm always on meds. So he didn't think they could learn anything other than if I have sleep apnea. Nevertheless, if this sleep walking and falling keeps up I better go.

One thing I wanted to know first is if this is common with us people who take opiates everyday? No one has come forward and said Yes, so I guess it's not common. That means I have to go to some kind of doctor for it. I have gotten hurt fal,ling, it's just that so far I haven't been seriously injured. But I don't want to bet on that continuing to happen.

Maybe something similar happens to other people on opiates. I'll wait a little longer.
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Unread 04-23-2011, 11:07 AM   #7
Jack123
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Default A New Disaster

Hi Folks,

A new disaster happened last night, and this time it was bad.

I had gone to sleep on the bed. But then I seemed to be sitting up in the bed. I then felt as if I went flying in the air, head over heels, and I landed on my ass next to the bed. I know how strange that sounds. It was as if someone had flung me. But I live alone. Even if there was another person here, I'm not a light weight, flinging me through the air would take more strength than most men have. So I got up and went back in bed.

Then I was sitting cross legged on the side of the bed. I suddenly went forward, as if pushed with quite a force. I hit the wall with my face. I thought I heard a bone break. I pushed away from the wall, and my nose was bleeding, both from inside and several cuts outside. I was scared to go back to sleep, but that strange nodding sensation had come over me. I made sure blood wasn't running out of my nose, and I fell asleep again. I woke up very early at 6:30 am. I thought I had slept the past 5 hours, but I'm exhausted. The main room of my apt looks like a tornado hit it. Things are spewed all over, including some clothes hangers that belong in the bathroom. I now seem to think I had a dream about coat hangers. But it wasn't a dream. I was up and walking around with the coat hangers.

My nose hurts, but not that much. I'm wondering if I should go to an ER about my nose. What do you all think? What can they do for me? I can't take pain pills even if they offered them to me. I would never feel 1 or 2 pain pills. I don't think I'm bleeding internally. I think I would feel something if I was bleeding up in my sinus cavities some where. Things like this happened when I was on the full agonists too, but not as bad, so I can't say it's just from Bupe. But opiates may have something to do with it. For this reason I'm afraid to tell my reg Doc, who is also my Sub doc. He may cut me off abruptly. Btw, I took 9 mg of Bupe yesterday. That's not a very high dose, but it's not low neither. I have come to think that this sleep walking thing is drug related. But I take so many different drugs, I don't know which ones. I also don't think I can ever live drug free anymore. Even my pdoc said that after I had withdrawn from Pot. He said I will probably never sleep normal again. I also can't seem to stay awake all day normally neither. Again, we blame the Pot for this. The sleep and waking centers of my brain are probably damaged. The pdoc said sometimes it heals, and other times it doesn't. The point is I can't stay with no drugs at all.

So what do you all think I should do? I am scared. I'm afraid every time I have to sleep. The sleep clinics seem to only be interested in sleep apnea. Right now there's a lot of money in treating sleep apnea. I dare say sleep apnea is the very least of my problems. I'm thinking that maybe a sleep study can show changes in my brain when I go into these sleep walking spells. But again, the whole sleep study is designed to look for sleep apnea.

I guess I'm waiting to hear that someone else is experiencing something similar?
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Unread 04-23-2011, 11:48 AM   #8
NancyB
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Hi Jack, if you're feeling anxious about your nose, then maybe go to the ER or to a Walk-In clinic and see what they have to say.

I found this pretty interesting:
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders...walking-causes

Environmental Factors

Certain factors may cause a person to sleepwalk, such as:

Sleep deprivation

Chaotic sleep schedules

Stress

Alcohol intoxication

Drugs such as sedative/hypnotics (drugs that promote relaxation or sleep), neuroleptics (drugs used to treat psychosis), stimulants (drugs that increase activity), and antihistamines (drugs used to treat symptoms of allergy)

Medical Conditions

Medical conditions that have been linked to sleepwalking include:

Arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms)

Fever

Gastroesophageal reflux (food or liquid regurgitating from the stomach into the food pipe)

Nighttime asthma

Nighttime seizures (convulsions)

Obstructive sleep apnea (condition in which breathing stops temporarily while sleeping)

Psychiatric disorders, for example, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic attack, or dissociative states, such as multiple personality disorder


From:
http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=14
Will I need to take any tests?

Your doctor will likely have you do an overnight sleep study if you are an adult. This is called a polysomnogram. The polysomnogram charts your brain waves, heart beat, and breathing as you sleep. It also records how your arms and legs move. This shows if there are other disorders, such as sleep apnea, that are causing your sleep problems.

The best sleep study will also record your sleep on video. This will help show if you get out of the bed and do anything unusual during the study.




So, maybe a sleep study would be in order.
Here's a site that might be helpful in finding one:

http://www.sleepcenters.org/

Nancy
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Unread 04-23-2011, 02:25 PM   #9
Jack123
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Hi Nancy,

I don't feel anxious about my nose. It hurts but I doubt that it's broke. It is swollen. I'd be worried if I was tasting blood either in my mouth or in my nose. But I don't.

The problem is every time I have to go to sleep I'm fearing another episode. This is happening too often. This is the 4th time I was either injured, or damn close to it, since I started back on Bupe. I think it's related to taking too much. When I get that strange insomnia that's associated with nodding at my desk, I Think (?) that's when sleepwalking is most likely to occur. At times like that, when I go to sleep I either wake up after 1/2 - 2 hours, or I sleepwalk. I just went to take a nap. I seemed to go almost straight into a dream, and then woke up. I slept 45 minutes. Since I dreamt I actually feel refreshed. I'm pretty sure that once I stabilize on Bupe this will happen far less often. But it always happens. I'm shocked that no one else is reporting this. Maybe they're too embarrassed. Don't you read almost every post, Nancy? So if someone else had reported this you'd probably remember. It's such a strange thing I would think it's hard to totally forget.

I'm glad you copied some of the WebMD article, because every time I go there my browser crashes. But I did read there's 1 big difference in sleep studies. Some use a video camera, but most do not. I want to go some where I'll be video taped. Quite honestly, if I don't sleep walk I'll consider the study a failure. I'm sure I have sleep apnea. I've seen the mask they will ask me to wear. I can barely sleep as it is. If I put that contraption on my face I'll never sleep. Tell me something, do you think it odd that Lung Specialists would also be sleep doctors? I do. I don't see where those 2 fields have much to do with each other. This is important to me because the Lung docs I go to want to do the sleep study. But where I live there are lots of places that do sleep studies. I get the feeling the Lung docs do it to cash in on the lucrative sleep apnea market. Now that I learned only the best places use a video camera, I have to ask about it. I should hurry up and do this. If I wait too long I'll lose the ambition to go. Or if the Bupe stabilizes and this stops happening I may not want to go. With my insomnia and crazy sleep patterns, I may not fall asleep in a strange place anyway.

Thanks again, Nancy.
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Unread 04-24-2011, 08:04 AM   #10
NancyB
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Hi Jack, I don't recall anyone ever talking about sleepwalking associated with opiates. Ambien, yes. Opiates, not that I recall. I don't think it would have anything to do with embarrassment either as there are plenty of other more personal topics talked about openly (i.e., constipation and libido).

I don't think it's odd at all for a pulmonary physician to be involved with sleep studies since some sleep disorders are respiratory disorders. Maybe this will ease your mind:

From: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disord..._overview.aspx

How is sleep apnea treated?
Cleveland Clinic's pulmonologists work with neurologists and otolaryngologists (ear, nose and throat specialists) to diagnose and treat sleep apnea and other sleep disorders. The diagnosis is easily confirmed during an overnight stay in the Clinic’s Sleep Lab, where round-the-clock EEG and video monitoring produce a clear picture of brain waves and sleep patterns. Once the diagnosis of sleep apnea is made, appropriate treatment is recommended and may include surgery to remove excess tissue from the back of the nose and mouth area, use of continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) at night and weight loss.


Here's another good link about sleep disorders from the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute (NIH) site about sleep studies.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/...st_whatis.html

Here's a link to a publication that is interesting called "Your Guide to Healthy Sleep".
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/publ...lthy_sleep.pdf

I hope that helps.

Nancy
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Unread 05-04-2011, 05:12 PM   #11
frances
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Hi Jack,

I'm sorry you are having these sleep issues. I'm sure that can be scary! I just wanted to let you know I take Sub (currently only 1mg/day, but I started at 12mg/day) and I take Ambien nightly (have been since before I started on sub) and I have never had an occurrence like what you describe. Nor did I when on full agonists... I just wanted to answer your question as I know you are looking for an answer or possible link. I'm not sure what other meds you are on, but you say a lot...maybe it is an interaction between them or just a random sleep issue you have. I would do the sleep study...even if they are only looking for apnea...if it was video taped and you had a strange episode, I bet they would refer you to a good sleep specialist.

Good Luck, Frances
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Unread 02-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #12
jamjammer53150
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Ok so this is an older post , BUT it is what landed me here ( on this forum) . I have been taking Subs 4 months or so now , and I am becoming quite the nocturnal roamer . I have little or recolection of my wanderings , and the worst thing is when either
a. I fall asleep standing up
B.wake up standing up
Unfortunatley I am not sure which it is , But i collapse to the ground arms flailing , and end up hurting myself . there are cigeratte burns all over the place in my house , it weird .
I suppose there is some introduction place where I should probally stat e my sordid past
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Unread 07-18-2012, 11:08 PM   #13
MightyQuinn
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Hey, I see this is kind of old...how's it going?

In my opinion, and from what you've said,myou need a new dr! What kind of doctor would tell you things like you'll never live medication free? I think you should do the sleep study, it can't hurt!

Any responsible dr wouldn't abruptly just take you off suboxone. He may want to lower your dose, 9mg is still a lot! I don't think you need to worry about him just taking you off. Have you spoken with him? How did it go if you have?

One thing I thought of, do you have any support around you? Family or close friends that you could stay with for a bit while you try and get it under control? Someone who could keep an eye on you if you started sleep walking? My boyfriend sleep walks sometime (by the way he is on a sub program, but it's probably not related to that. His dose is pretty low, and he has a history of sleep walking - I'm not sure if it started around the same time as his opiate use) you can't really wake up a sleep walker, and you wouldn't want to if you could because they could fight back at you, thinking they're being attacked. But you can gently guide the, back to their Ed, and make sure they're not going to do anything dangerous like driving or going outside.

In my opinion you should do the sleep study, and find a dr that will support you and what you choose to do. I also think you should try and get off some of your mess. Have you consider counseling to help with the anxiety of changing and tapering off different meds? Counseling can help with the stress of it all!

Good luck, please keep us updated!

Some people have found the hypnosis works. They are usually hypnotized to wake up as soon as their feet hit the floor. That wouldn't really help your sleep deprivation problem, but it could at least assure that you're safe!
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Unread 09-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #14
Shalalagirl
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I sleepwalk since I started taking Suboxone. I was searching this forum to see if anyone else was having the same problem. I fall all the time, too - run in to things, and I'll wake up when I've hurt myself, or wake up when I fall to the floor. Sometimes I'll wake up standing against a wall, and my husband says I will stoop over, while standing, with my head towards the floor, and sleep like that for a long time. I don't know how I stay on my feet. Sometimes I sleepwalk around the house all night long. My husband will try to direct me to lay down or sit in a chair, but when I'm in that state, I won't stay in one place. My husband has put pillows and stuff behind my chair so that I don't fall out of it.
Sleepwalking is something I've never done in my life until after being on Suboxone for a few years. I thought it would get better as my dose decreases, but it's not. I believe that the reason why I'm sleepwalking is because ever since I started Suboxone, I just plain don't go to bed - I don't want to sleep. I do not know why. I only sleep when I fall asleep - sitting or standing. I force myself to lay down in bed about once every 2 weeks. Sometimes I'll be awake for 48 to 72 hours. There's something about being on Suboxone (for me), that makes me not want to go to bed, I fight sleep like crazy. I'm lucky that I have not really hurt myself - I've had some pretty bad bumps on the head, though, and have bruised my legs and arms. I think that one of the side effects of Suboxone is insomnia, but mine seems to be extreme. I'm embarrassed to talk about it, too.
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Unread 09-16-2012, 07:12 PM   #15
NancyB
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Hi Shalalagirl, what dose of Suboxone are you on and for how long have you been on that dose? When do you take it - what time of day?

Have you had a full physical recently to see if there's a reason why you're sleepwalking? It just seems odd that the sleepwalking didn't start until after a few years of taking Suboxone. Also, not sleeping like you - has that been for the whole 5 years since you started Suboxone?

Nancy
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Unread 11-24-2015, 08:19 PM   #16
Shalalagirl
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Update:

My sleepwalking stopped not long after I wrote the post. I really don't know why. Of course my dosage decreased, but my doctor decreases dosage very gradually. Maybe it was due to positive changes in my lifestyle.
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Unread 11-25-2015, 05:55 AM   #17
NancyB
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Hi Shalalagirl, that's great news! Good to hear, especially about the positive changes in your life. Sounds like you're doing well. Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Nancy
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Unread 11-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #18
Roadtorecovery
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Happened to me twice. First culprit was seroqeul back in the days . I slept walked, slept ate etc. the other one strange,y enough was Benadryl . Rough time getting to sleep, looks like Benadryl has an alter effect on me. It agitates the crap out of me. I took it only to wake up staring in the bathroom mirror that scared the sit outta me
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Unread 01-21-2016, 10:12 AM   #19
MattC42286
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Hi jack123! How r u? I have had the calling thing happen a time or two but nothing major. Try getting some rest and see if it gets better if not I would talk to your doctor. Thanks and God bless – Matt
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Unread 08-22-2016, 07:38 AM   #20
Deafheart
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Red face Im not the only one!!

I have been having episodes such as those explained below
In other posts. My story seems to replicate Jack123 story as
Well as an exact copy of Shalalagirl's story.
I've had injuries: Concussion, busted eye, busted head, bad
Bruising from major falls. I've had 3 sleep studies. Sleep
Apnea is the only diagnosis at this time as well as a 'sleeping
disorder'. I wonder.....is it the Methadone? I've been in
MMTP since 2007.
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