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Unread 08-02-2013, 06:46 PM   #1
Sparky642
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Default Sub and Endophins

It is a known fact (at least I think it is) that opiates flood your neurotransmitters with dopamine and endorphins. That is why you get the "high" euphoric feeling. After taking opiates for a long period of time your brain stops its normal manufacturer of dopamine and endorphins. That is why many people feel depressed after stop taking opiates.
Does anyone know if Sub does the same? Stops the brain from producing dopamine and endorphins?
Does any body know of supplements or vitamins that help the brain to produce dopamine and endorphins again?
I heard that L-Tyrosine is an amino acid that is a precursor of the neurotransmitters dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine and this may help support brain nutrition?
Does anyone know if any of this is true or am I way off base?
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Unread 08-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Sparky642, this might be of interest, Dr. Richard Gracer's "bowling ball" analogy.

http://gracermedicalgroup.com/resour..._file_0009.pdf

Nancy
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Unread 08-02-2013, 10:40 PM   #3
down2nothing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky642 View Post
It is a known fact (at least I think it is) that opiates flood your neurotransmitters with dopamine and endorphins. That is why you get the "high" euphoric feeling. After taking opiates for a long period of time your brain stops its normal manufacturer of dopamine and endorphins. That is why many people feel depressed after stop taking opiates.
Does anyone know if Sub does the same? Stops the brain from producing dopamine and endorphins?
Does any body know of supplements or vitamins that help the brain to produce dopamine and endorphins again?
From what I have read, it depends on the individual. Some will never recover their natural ability to produce these things naturally, thus could remain on maintenance indefinitely. My question asks to what extent does suboxone stop the natural production of such things compared to a full blown opiate (heroin, oxycodone...etc.). In other words, because we are given suboxone to help us, I wonder if it stops the natural production of such things to a lesser degree. If you have access to the internet, yes natural help is available. (Low endorphin levels can be caused by certain vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Certainly, a lack of B vitamins (particularly B12) and vitamin C, or of minerals such as iron, potassium and zinc, can cause you to feel low. The internet mentions fruits, particularly strawberries, grapes, bananas, oranges, however there is tons of stuff out there regarding alternatives. I have been on suboxone 5 years and just finding out how potent this drug is and definitely, less is better. It is sold sublingually for pain in doses as low as .2 mg. What on earth are we doing to ourselves (I take 8mg per/day), and have read on this site that I could easily get to 4mg per/day and feel better on the lower doses. Heck, some of our members have been on 2mg for years with a better quality of life. “Moderation in all things,” according to Aristotle.
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Unread 08-03-2013, 03:35 PM   #4
Dan458
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In my younger years, I did opiates almost daily. I did opiates from the age of 25 to 31. I got straight on Jan 7, 1988. I relapsed 17 years later. I went through a lot of changes during those 17 years. In the beginning I had insomnia that lasted for years. At the end of that period, it was just the opposite, I would lie down at night with the intention of watching a tv program and just a few minutes after lying down, I'd be out like a light. When we take opiates, the body interprets the action of those opiates binding to the brains receptors as an over production of endorphins. It then slows down endorphin production. When we quit taking opiates, it takes the brain a while to resume normal endorphin production. There are several factors that influence the time needed to get back to normal.... Length of use, dosage, etc, etc. I think it is unknown if the brain actually gets back to a 100% of normal endorphin production. Clinically, that would be difficult to determine.
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Unread 08-03-2013, 03:41 PM   #5
Sparky642
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I am pretty sure that the body slows down production of endorphins while on opiates.

But does anyone have any information that Sub also slows down the production of endorphins?
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Unread 08-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #6
Dan458
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I have no proof of this but I believe that all opiates reduce endorphin production. I am sure that most of them do. One I am not sure about is loperamide (lmodium), an opiate sold otc for diarrhea relief.
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Unread 08-06-2013, 11:40 PM   #7
Sparky642
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Does that mean anyone on Sub treatmeant could just as well be reducing dopamine and endorphins production in their brain just like they would be doing if they were using opiates? Does that mean the higher dosage of Sub you are on corralates with your production of endorphins you are not producing?That would suggest everyone should try toget on the lowest dose possible and not destroy as many endorphins as possible
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