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Unread 09-05-2009, 12:14 AM   #51
R. Lee
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Frank, Keep hanging around. As a recovering alcoholic I need to hear from an alcoholic like you. You help keep me sober. I'm no better than you just a recovering alcoholic taking it 1 day at a time. Best of luck on your choices. R. Lee
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Unread 09-08-2009, 03:42 PM   #52
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Frank, Keep hanging around. As a recovering alcoholic I need to hear from an alcoholic like you. You help keep me sober. I'm no better than you just a recovering alcoholic taking it 1 day at a time. Best of luck on your choices. R. Lee
Hi Lee,,

Thanks for the post. As far as choices, I only know aa, but the whole idea about god, (I don't believe in god) the big book, and 12 steps as a way of life turns me off, but I will say that in aa meetings, i've heard some of the best advice and moving stories out there.

One problem I have is that I never hit a big enough bottom. I wish I would have. Also, I must have a problem, otherwise I wouldn't be here or, my best thinking (heard this in meetings) got me into this problem.

I wish you folks (you, Carly etc.) lived close, as I would love to take you out to lunch, and maybe something would click inside my stubborn brain. Like a stick of dinamite maybe? Ha! Thanks,

Frank
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Unread 09-08-2009, 05:09 PM   #53
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Frank, I came to A.A. as an Atheist. I was not converted to any kind of god. When I look at the universe I know that there is something out there higher that a human being. I can turn everything over to a power greater thanmyself. I'm not in control. R. Lee
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Unread 09-09-2009, 01:06 AM   #54
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Hi Frank,
Good to hear from you.One thing that struck me was when you said you had not hit bottom, some may say: why on earth wait ? I understand when you say, you are waiting for something to "click"or go Kaboom, but,
I am fresh outta dynamite ; )

All kidding aside, this is a serious disease, it could be possible that your journey is a gradual understanding and acceptance of recovery ? Maybe ?

You have posted that you are aware of the effects of alcohol on the body, but i have not heard you speak much about how you feel, are you happy, content , at peace?

I ask because when I hit bottom, I felt like I was peering over the abyss, terrified I would be swallowed up by the sheer darkness that had invaded my heart. That was my main motivation to seek help, more emotional than physical, ( after my relapse).
With work, I was able to feel good feelings again.

Does any of this ring true for you ?
Or are you more concerned that when you do drink, it wreaks havoc on your body, takes days to get over the effects ?
I am just posing these questions in hopes of finding out what you are thinking/feeling.

I do agree with you, some of the best advice/feedback I have ever had was not from therapists/doctors, but rather someone in the rooms and it was free ! I know I complicated the heck out of recovery when I was first exposed to all things recovery.

About the G-O-D issue, I respect what you believe,do not believe, it is a dicey subject.
As Rlee posted there are many people who find a way to make it work - if that is what you wanted to pursue.
Kudos to you for being honest and continuing to seek answers, don't give up - please !

Take care, Carly : )
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Unread 09-19-2009, 11:31 AM   #55
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Hi Frank,

It has been a few weeks, how are you doing ?
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Unread 09-23-2009, 07:09 PM   #56
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Hi Frank , How are doing : )
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Unread 10-18-2009, 07:02 PM   #57
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Hi Frank,

It has been a few weeks, how are you doing ?
Hi Carly and all,

As far as not hitting a bottom, i'm either there, or getting very close. I drank twice in one week a few weeks ago, and got an irregular heart beat for one hour. Haven't drank since, and not in a hurry (at all) to test things out. I should be thinking about taking in a few speaker meetings, but can't seem to muster up the energy to go.

Speaking of feeling like crap, (you asked how I feel Carly) that just about sums up the way I feel, and have felt. If I don't drink for a few more weeks, I won't have to raise my hand when they ask (aa meetings) for new commers in their first 30 days. Smart huh? Ha! Thanks,

Frank
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Unread 10-19-2009, 12:01 AM   #58
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Frank, AA for me is 1 alcoholic helping another. I could not stop drinking on my own. I needed a support group even though I did not want to try AA again.

When someone like you shows up at a meeting & is honest I do not look down on him. He is what I am an alcoholic. He is a miracle because he had the courage to walk through that door to seek help.

Don't give up on youself & take it 1 day at a time. R. Lee
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Unread 10-20-2009, 12:42 PM   #59
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Frank, AA for me is 1 alcoholic helping another. I could not stop drinking on my own. I needed a support group even though I did not want to try AA again.

When someone like you shows up at a meeting & is honest I do not look down on him. He is what I am an alcoholic. He is a miracle because he had the courage to walk through that door to seek help.

Don't give up on youself & take it 1 day at a time. R. Lee
Thanks R.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 02:02 PM   #60
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Default Hi Frank !

Hi Frank,

Thank you for posting an update, I was wondering how you were doing. Sorry you were feeling crappy. You know my spiel ; ) ... always seek medical advice if you are experiencing health issues, please, I want you to be safe and healthy.

A speaker meeting may be a good option, I know a lot people never liked them, but I did - Loved them esp in the beginning, because I did not have to talk and I always felt so good afterwards, if others could do it
then there was hope for me too !

Remember, there are medications that may be helpful for alcohol cravings, here is the link, let us know if you have more questions about it.

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...-treatment.cfm

Well, I hope you are feeling better very soon, let us know what we can do and please don't be a stranger - you were missed.

Oh and the 30 day idea, sounds like a plan to me ; )

Take care Frank, Carly
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.

Last edited by CarlyO; 10-20-2009 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 10-20-2009, 08:04 PM   #61
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Hi Frank,

Thank you for posting an update, I was wondering how you were doing. Sorry you were feeling crappy. You know my spiel ; ) ... always seek medical advice if you are experiencing health issues, please, I want you to be safe and healthy.

A speaker meeting may be a good option, I know a lot people never liked them, but I did - Loved them esp in the beginning, because I did not have to talk and I always felt so good afterwards, if others could do it
then there was hope for me too !

Remember, there are medications that may be helpful for alcohol cravings, here is the link, let us know if you have more questions about it.

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...-treatment.cfm

Well, I hope you are feeling better very soon, let us know what we can do and please don't be a stranger - you were missed.

Oh and the 30 day idea, sounds like a plan to me ; )

Take care Frank, Carly
Thanks for checking on me Carly,

As far as me feeling crappy, I have only one person to blame for that. I'm feeling better now, and want to keep it that way. It's amazing how people (me included) can beat up there bodies for years, and are surprised when their bodies revolt. Mine did, and I don't want to go through it again.

I don't think I will try the meds, but I think I will try to go to a speaker meeting this weekend. I once heard a man share (speaker meeting) that his dr. told him that he had a little blood mixed with his cholesterol and tricglycerides. I never forgot that. Funny and true. Drinking raises trigs. through the roof for a lot of people. Mine were at 320 last check, and soon to be going down. Drinking also dusts your lungs. A lot of folks don't know that, but drinking really does shred the lungs.

Carly, you are always trying to help people here, but how are you doing? How are things going for you? I know you have a child, and maybe life is a little hard for you? Maybe more than a little?

Thanks very much for being here for me, and everybody. I hope things are going good for you.

Frank
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Unread 10-20-2009, 09:43 PM   #62
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Frankie,

Welcome back. Sounds like you turned the corner, things looking better for you.

Carly's definitely one of the good ones.

Wishing you the best.

Regards
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Unread 10-21-2009, 04:21 PM   #63
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Aww - Y'all are too kind !

Frank, so true, and important ! Alcohol wreaks havoc on the liver, kidneys etc... and trigs as you say. BUT ... the good news is when you stop, I have seen lab reports of patients... the levels get back to normal or at least much better than if one continues to drink.
Frank, I did not know that about the lungs! I am going to read more about that.

Thanks for asking about me, I will post over on OT under the thread about the bikes : )
But all is well - life issues and such but overall good.
Well, I thought I would mention the meds, just in case it was an option. I really believe that it takes what it takes, as Saint posted- you have turned the corner - maybe you are ready ?
Take care, Carly : )
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Unread 10-29-2009, 08:27 PM   #64
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Hi Frank,
Good to hear from you.One thing that struck me was when you said you had not hit bottom, some may say: why on earth wait ? I understand when you say, you are waiting for something to "click"or go Kaboom, but,
I am fresh outta dynamite ; )

All kidding aside, this is a serious disease, it could be possible that your journey is a gradual understanding and acceptance of recovery ? Maybe ?

You have posted that you are aware of the effects of alcohol on the body, but i have not heard you speak much about how you feel, are you happy, content , at peace?

I ask because when I hit bottom, I felt like I was peering over the abyss, terrified I would be swallowed up by the sheer darkness that had invaded my heart. That was my main motivation to seek help, more emotional than physical, ( after my relapse).
With work, I was able to feel good feelings again.

Does any of this ring true for you ?
Or are you more concerned that when you do drink, it wreaks havoc on your body, takes days to get over the effects ?
I am just posing these questions in hopes of finding out what you are thinking/feeling.

I do agree with you, some of the best advice/feedback I have ever had was not from therapists/doctors, but rather someone in the rooms and it was free ! I know I complicated the heck out of recovery when I was first exposed to all things recovery.

About the G-O-D issue, I respect what you believe,do not believe, it is a dicey subject.
As Rlee posted there are many people who find a way to make it work - if that is what you wanted to pursue.
Kudos to you for being honest and continuing to seek answers, don't give up - please !

Take care, Carly : )
Carly,

I see I never answered your questions, so I will try to, although you might not come back to this thread again. First, for me it's hard to figure out the reasons why I drink. I'm thinking it's probably like most every one else in that I drink to escape bad feelings, the past, angziety etc.

I guess I have a very hard head, as i'm not aware of most of these things most of the times before I drink, and even though sometimes I recognize a trigger, I would drink anyway, and not give it another thought.

As far as being happy, i'm not. I'm always thinking things like "when I get this or or that, then I will be happy". My head is always in the future, that I can't be happy in the now. Remember when we were kids, and everything was in the now? Those were the days, and we didn't know it.

Frank
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Unread 10-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #65
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There's Frank !
Not come back to this thread !! - why? because you were being honest ? Not a chance ! Honest is good, honesty gets us to the heart of an issue.
I understand where you are coming from. Someone once told me - you will never get all your ducks in a row - so forget about that notion. It was not even anything related to alcohol, just life in general. Like don't wait around for that to happen. It always stuck with me. Not that I always adhere to his wisdom, but I do think of it often. To date, my ducks have never been in a row ; )

As far as being happy, do "things " make you happy or relationships? Take away the consequences of alcohol - would that make you happy? - I know it is a stretch - but would it ? Just curious.
Maybe you don' t even know what would truly make you happy? That requires some soul searching, imo.
As far as anxiety, bad feelings, - issues that cause you to reach for a drink, those are issues you can work on and get through.
As far as drinking and not giving it another thought, could it be because you do not know any other way ? It is like breathing to you.
Remember also, there are plenty of people with great lives, all the money and things in the world, but ruin their lives with alcohol, because they are alcoholics, until that is dealt with- they will most likely stay on that path.

I am just glad you continue to post - there is the possibility, maybe your answers are closer than you realize. At least a part of you is reaching out - yes?
I hope you are doing well today, maybe have weekend plans ? Please keep us updated when you can, take care Frank.
Carly : )
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Unread 10-30-2009, 06:19 PM   #66
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There's Frank !
Not come back to this thread !! - why? because you were being honest ? Not a chance ! Honest is good, honesty gets us to the heart of an issue.
I understand where you are coming from. Someone once told me - you will never get all your ducks in a row - so forget about that notion. It was not even anything related to alcohol, just life in general. Like don't wait around for that to happen. It always stuck with me. Not that I always adhere to his wisdom, but I do think of it often. To date, my ducks have never been in a row ; )

As far as being happy, do "things " make you happy or relationships? Take away the consequences of alcohol - would that make you happy? - I know it is a stretch - but would it ? Just curious.
Maybe you don' t even know what would truly make you happy? That requires some soul searching, imo.
As far as anxiety, bad feelings, - issues that cause you to reach for a drink, those are issues you can work on and get through.
As far as drinking and not giving it another thought, could it be because you do not know any other way ? It is like breathing to you.
Remember also, there are plenty of people with great lives, all the money and things in the world, but ruin their lives with alcohol, because they are alcoholics, until that is dealt with- they will most likely stay on that path.

I am just glad you continue to post - there is the possibility, maybe your answers are closer than you realize. At least a part of you is reaching out - yes?
I hope you are doing well today, maybe have weekend plans ? Please keep us updated when you can, take care Frank.
Carly : )
Hi Carly,

Thanks for the words. Sometimes I don't go back to old threads, so thanks for looking back. I knew if you saw it, you would respond.

Pretty funny about the ducks in a row. I won't forget that one. Sounds a lot like me. That is me. Things are rarely ok without thinking about the future.

As far as things and or relationships making me happy? I guess both do. As far as would I drink if drinking had no bad consequences at all? Thats a no brainer for me. Absolutely I would. You asked for honesty. Or did you? Ha! If I can't tell the truth, I can't be helped, and like I said before, I almost don't have a clue why I drink. I never got that part in meetings. Duh!

What would make me truly happy? I don't have a clue also. Also, I don't know why I drink. I really don't. I think I drink to have fun, and get buzzed. Sounds dopey, but it's true. It's true that drinking is and has been a part of my life. I don't really know another way.

As far as reaching out for help, I am. Tomorrow I will have 30 days, and I still haven't been to a meeting. I haven't been feeling very good (my wife either) having the mini flu etc., not to mention a hangover that won't go away, so I haven't been tempted a lot.

I'm hoping you (or all) can spot some of my problems, and call me on it. I wasn't joking about having a thick scull, it's more like granite. Thanks,

Frank
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Unread 10-30-2009, 10:50 PM   #67
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Frank, I drank because I was an alcoholic. I could not handle drinking like a normal person. R. Lee
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Unread 10-31-2009, 09:01 PM   #68
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Frank,

How are you?

I read the tale below every once in a while. I find the message inspirational for myself, as a way to become a better person. The upside is it has also helped me stay sober(I'm a shortimer).



"One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

How often we are faced with a choice about how to react to each day's challenges. Do we rail at the outrageous winds of "fate" that pound us from time to time, falling into the pit of self-pity; or do we look upon these moments as opportunities to learn and grow, and broaden the humanity within us?

The good news is that we do have a choice. We can choose to feed the wolf of envy and resentment, or feed the wolf of humility, benevolence and compassion. We can choose to be happy or to be miserable. The choice we make colors our days, our work and our relationships to those around us.

Which wolf do you choose to feed today?

Lou Tice

The Pacific Institute

www.thepacificinstitute.com"




Regards
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Unread 10-31-2009, 09:31 PM   #69
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Saint, What a great metaphor. It says it all. Keep up the good work. R. Lee
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Unread 10-31-2009, 09:44 PM   #70
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R.Lee,

It is a great little story isn't it. Every time I read it it still rings true.

Hope you are feeling better.

Regards

Last edited by Saint; 10-31-2009 at 09:45 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 10-31-2009, 11:31 PM   #71
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Hi Frank,
First off congrats on 30 days ! How do you feel about it ? I think it is amazing, even if you are perhaps not exactly where you want to be at this moment.
Saint, I like your post too, you are a great group of people !

Frank, I will bet many who read your thread and can relate to your honesty. I can. Of course I wish that everyone who seeks help here or anywhere - finds something that works for them, but in reality it is often a process. Ideally the goal is to find what works before something tragic happens.

Your honesty- imo- sounds so familiar to me and maybe others when they are in the grips of this disease. I have heard it and lived it - people often share that they drink because of this or that or simply as you say to get a buzz.
I admit at one time, I much preferred being under the influence than reality of living in my own skin. I had a history of smoking pot/ drinking, depression , since age 14. Sometimes I did manage long periods of abstinence. I partied, then became a binge drinker later on, which does not bode well, especially when I had my first social work job. I felt I deserved it, - the stress and pressure of job, life ... Or relationships - always a good reason in my mind to drink.
But then it became less of a party and more of a way of coping, so I quit my job and gave in, gave up etc... when it took hold of me, I almost had a death wish. I was so lost.
This was before the advent of medications to help with cravings and the internet forums, etc... I knew I needed help. It took me more than 10 "detoxes" , endless cold turkey withdrawals, I will quit tomorrows.... I lost count of inpatient stays, - 28 day programs, a 4 month stint in a boot camp type residential facility, where everyday, I went to classes, meetings, counseling, etc... and I still could not, would NOT get it ! I cried every single day, because I wanted to be high, so I KNOW STUBBORN ! I dreamed about alcohol and substances. I was ambivalent about the whole deal, but feared jail and death. I just did not want or know any other way to live.
I went to meetings, I saw the happy people but never felt a part of, did not believe anything would help me. Before I fled that place, my counselor said XYZ will happen... I will face legal trouble, I will have health issues, overdose, and many other unseemly consequences that result from the progression of my disease. It all happened just as she predicted.
Eventually,luckily, I did end up in a place that did help me, or maybe I was beat ? I had to stay put and in doing so, I got enough time and good days, where I felt happy and started to believe I could really do this thing.

You being honest about your feelings is good, especially if there is someone out there reading this thread that can totally relate, if it makes them feel less alone, less unsure of themselves, maybe they will have the desire or courage to post or at least keep reading, maybe even seek help.

Well, my sugar rush from my son's Halloween candy is winding down ; ) I hope you are having a great weekend and look forward to hearing more from you.
Take care, Carly : )
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 11-01-2009, 12:31 PM   #72
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Concratulations on your 30 days & honesty Frank. Saint thanks for asking. Yes I'm feeling better. R. Lee
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Unread 11-01-2009, 04:02 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint View Post
Frank,

How are you?

I read the tale below every once in a while. I find the message inspirational for myself, as a way to become a better person. The upside is it has also helped me stay sober(I'm a shortimer).



"One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

How often we are faced with a choice about how to react to each day's challenges. Do we rail at the outrageous winds of "fate" that pound us from time to time, falling into the pit of self-pity; or do we look upon these moments as opportunities to learn and grow, and broaden the humanity within us?

The good news is that we do have a choice. We can choose to feed the wolf of envy and resentment, or feed the wolf of humility, benevolence and compassion. We can choose to be happy or to be miserable. The choice we make colors our days, our work and our relationships to those around us.

Which wolf do you choose to feed today?

Lou Tice

The Pacific Institute

www.thepacificinstitute.com"



Regards
Hi saint,

I just posted very a long responce, but it got erased, so this will be short. Thanks very much for the wolf thing. That will be close at hand with me for ever. Carly's "ducks in a row" also stuck.

Just got back from my hour walk with my wife and dog, and we argued a bit on the way, and I never gave the wolf thing a thought. Unbelievable! And I had just read it before the walk. Ha! Guess I will have to make a point of remimbering it on a regular basis. Thank again for that,

Frank
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Unread 11-01-2009, 04:38 PM   #74
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Hi Frank,
First off congrats on 30 days ! How do you feel about it ? I think it is amazing, even if you are perhaps not exactly where you want to be at this moment.
Saint, I like your post too, you are a great group of people !

Frank, I will bet many who read your thread and can relate to your honesty. I can. Of course I wish that everyone who seeks help here or anywhere - finds something that works for them, but in reality it is often a process. Ideally the goal is to find what works before something tragic happens.

Your honesty- imo- sounds so familiar to me and maybe others when they are in the grips of this disease. I have heard it and lived it - people often share that they drink because of this or that or simply as you say to get a buzz.
I admit at one time, I much preferred being under the influence than reality of living in my own skin. I had a history of smoking pot/ drinking, depression , since age 14. Sometimes I did manage long periods of abstinence. I partied, then became a binge drinker later on, which does not bode well, especially when I had my first social work job. I felt I deserved it, - the stress and pressure of job, life ... Or relationships - always a good reason in my mind to drink.
But then it became less of a party and more of a way of coping, so I quit my job and gave in, gave up etc... when it took hold of me, I almost had a death wish. I was so lost.
This was before the advent of medications to help with cravings and the internet forums, etc... I knew I needed help. It took me more than 10 "detoxes" , endless cold turkey withdrawals, I will quit tomorrows.... I lost count of inpatient stays, - 28 day programs, a 4 month stint in a boot camp type residential facility, where everyday, I went to classes, meetings, counseling, etc... and I still could not, would NOT get it ! I cried every single day, because I wanted to be high, so I KNOW STUBBORN ! I dreamed about alcohol and substances. I was ambivalent about the whole deal, but feared jail and death. I just did not want or know any other way to live.
I went to meetings, I saw the happy people but never felt a part of, did not believe anything would help me. Before I fled that place, my counselor said XYZ will happen... I will face legal trouble, I will have health issues, overdose, and many other unseemly consequences that result from the progression of my disease. It all happened just as she predicted.
Eventually,luckily, I did end up in a place that did help me, or maybe I was beat ? I had to stay put and in doing so, I got enough time and good days, where I felt happy and started to believe I could really do this thing.

You being honest about your feelings is good, especially if there is someone out there reading this thread that can totally relate, if it makes them feel less alone, less unsure of themselves, maybe they will have the desire or courage to post or at least keep reading, maybe even seek help.

Well, my sugar rush from my son's Halloween candy is winding down ; ) I hope you are having a great weekend and look forward to hearing more from you.
Take care, Carly : )
Hi Carly,

Thanks for the long and very informative responce! I too have been doing the "i'll quit tomorrow" thing for about 20 yrs. waiting for something to change, but it never really did.

Right now, believe it or not, this forum is keeping me sober! Don't know how long it can last if I don't get off my lazy butt and do something, but between you good folks on this forum, my walking, and working out, i'm not drinking, and thats a step up for me.

Still don't know for sure why I drink, (drank) but maybe that will come. I think thats the key for me. I think if I don't get that part of it, I won't get far at all.

Laughed when you spoke about the sugar rush. Ha! Thats so funny! We did the same last night, and didn't get to sleep till 1:30. Felt like I did a bunch of lines of coke! Haven't done that sinse the late 80's. Thanks,

Frank

Last edited by Frankie; 11-01-2009 at 04:48 PM..
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Unread 11-01-2009, 04:44 PM   #75
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Frank, I drank because I was an alcoholic. I could not handle drinking like a normal person. R. Lee
Thanks lee,

I also hope your feeling better.

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Unread 11-01-2009, 08:42 PM   #76
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Frankie-
Hello, I wanted to drop in and let you know I have read your story.Congrats to you on your sober time, it is rough but not impossible as you have seen. As far as ways to get more support and education on alcoholism- there are a number of resources.The main one being AA. I support 12 step recovery, but feel there are alternatives that are successful. The idea is to find what works for you as an individual. Online support forums were a huge source of aid in my personal recovery, I don't think I would have made it this far without some of the folks I met online.For me, it took different methods, and I am happy to say I have been clean for over two years now.
Whatever you decide, my thoughts are to find "Something".Don't try to go it alone because there is too much to learn about coping with this to do that.If you are interested in other ideas of support, let me know and I can forward that information to you.Take care and nice meeting you!
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Unread 11-01-2009, 09:14 PM   #77
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Thank you Frank. I'm feeling better. R. Lee
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Unread 11-02-2009, 01:15 PM   #78
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Frankie-
Hello, I wanted to drop in and let you know I have read your story.Congrats to you on your sober time, it is rough but not impossible as you have seen. As far as ways to get more support and education on alcoholism- there are a number of resources.The main one being AA. I support 12 step recovery, but feel there are alternatives that are successful. The idea is to find what works for you as an individual. Online support forums were a huge source of aid in my personal recovery, I don't think I would have made it this far without some of the folks I met online.For me, it took different methods, and I am happy to say I have been clean for over two years now.
Whatever you decide, my thoughts are to find "Something".Don't try to go it alone because there is too much to learn about coping with this to do that.If you are interested in other ideas of support, let me know and I can forward that information to you.Take care and nice meeting you!
Thanks Magda,

I would like to know about anything out there that would help. No doubt at all that I can't do it alone. Like I said before, this forum is a tremendous help (only help) for me. I don't know if I would have made it 30 days without folks like you. Thanks!

Frank
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Unread 11-02-2009, 01:37 PM   #79
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Frankie,

Been following this thread and I would like to encourage you to stay sober. And I am glad you are finding help here.
About the god issue and AA. Finding a "higher power" that works for you must begin with your commitment. Much has to do with finding what you want and using a higher power to remind you to stay the course. Veering off is part of the process but using course corrections are a part of the process as well.
Also, do we always find ways to "make" ourselves happy or is it more that we are receptive when happiness give us opportunities? In the effort to "make ourselves happy" we may turn to a drink or other substance to manipulate our feelings. To be receptive to happiness is to be receptive to our full range of feeling across the board. Accepting all feelings equally. That may be asking a lot given that we may harbor painful feelings!

Jerry
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Unread 11-02-2009, 04:48 PM   #80
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Frankie,

Been following this thread and I would like to encourage you to stay sober. And I am glad you are finding help here.
About the god issue and AA. Finding a "higher power" that works for you must begin with your commitment. Much has to do with finding what you want and using a higher power to remind you to stay the course. Veering off is part of the process but using course corrections are a part of the process as well.
Also, do we always find ways to "make" ourselves happy or is it more that we are receptive when happiness give us opportunities? In the effort to "make ourselves happy" we may turn to a drink or other substance to manipulate our feelings. To be receptive to happiness is to be receptive to our full range of feeling across the board. Accepting all feelings equally. That may be asking a lot given that we may harbor painful feelings!



Jerry
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the help. The higher power thing will come hard for me (hard head) as I never got that part. I don't even know if I have the commitment thing yet. I'm sort of numb at this point.

As far as being receptive to happiness and all my feelings, I don't have a clue to either, but I know these are things i'm going to have to address. Easy for me to write about these things, but I don't have the foggist idea how to do them. When said "get in touch with your feelings", I always thought that sounds nice, but I never understood it, or how to do it.

If you don't mind me asking, are you recovering also? Don't want to put you on the spot, but I just did. Ha!. Thanks,

Frank
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Unread 11-02-2009, 06:16 PM   #81
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Frank, Many alcoholics start off as atheist. I surly was. I finally got the higher power thing. My concept is pretty simple. I know there is something higher than a human. Now I can turn over things I have no control of.
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Unread 11-02-2009, 09:37 PM   #82
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Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the help. The higher power thing will come hard for me (hard head) as I never got that part. I don't even know if I have the commitment thing yet. I'm sort of numb at this point.

As far as being receptive to happiness and all my feelings, I don't have a clue to either, but I know these are things i'm going to have to address. Easy for me to write about these things, but I don't have the foggist idea how to do them. When said "get in touch with your feelings", I always thought that sounds nice, but I never understood it, or how to do it.

If you don't mind me asking, are you recovering also? Don't want to put you on the spot, but I just did. Ha!. Thanks,

Frank
Frank,
The higher power issue is a struggle for everyone, just about. And it is an experience that is unique only to the individual.
But the process of feelings, happiness and such you already have those. And like most of us may have confusion at times about what to do with certain mixes of feeling. It is what we do within that confusion that is telling. Some people may respond immediately with a judgement or a plan, sometimes they may do nothing.

Have you ever been in any type of talk therapy?

No, I am not in recovery. But I also see recovery in a broader sense.
For what it's worth I struggle with cigarette smoking.

Jerry
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Unread 11-03-2009, 11:07 AM   #83
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Frank,
The higher power issue is a struggle for everyone, just about. And it is an experience that is unique only to the individual.
But the process of feelings, happiness and such you already have those. And like most of us may have confusion at times about what to do with certain mixes of feeling. It is what we do within that confusion that is telling. Some people may respond immediately with a judgement or a plan, sometimes they may do nothing.

Have you ever been in any type of talk therapy?

No, I am not in recovery. But I also see recovery in a broader sense.
For what it's worth I struggle with cigarette smoking.

Jerry
Hi Jerry,

The only talk therapy i've had was through the va., and only two sessions. It was negitive, and I didn't go back. Thanks,

Frank
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Unread 11-03-2009, 03:16 PM   #84
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Hi Frank,

I was thinking about what Jerry mentioned regarding Talk Therapy. You have many questions as to the whys and how this disease affects you, you said finding out why is the key for you. Talking about it with a professional is a great way to get the answers you need.
Just a suggestion, but-
OK, you tried the VA counselor twice, you had a negative experience, maybe you could try again ? Isn't finding the answers you seek , being happy and healthy worth the effort ?
Finding someone with whom you can relate to is important, and it does take a few tries, imo. I call it finding the right fit. Though if I was in a crisis - anyone would be better than no one, but it took me several tries to find someone I clicked with, because I knew I needed to have someone long term, to cut through my BS that I ( sometimes) through out there ; )

Maybe this forum is a gateway to you being able to try something like counseling again, if you can be honest with us, then couldn't you with a professional?

To the right side of this page is a treatment locator, you just enter your zip code and a list of professionals in and around your area is available. That is a start.

I am so glad you have these 30 plus days under your belt, and that you realize perhaps it is time for the next step (s). That is progress !

I like what Jerry said about the higher power issue. But if that is a barrier to you taking this to the next level, then it can wait, like Rlee posted - he was an atheist and as Jerry posted, it is unique to the individual. I guess I am saying - don't over think it to the point of paralysis. You will find what works for you as long as you don't give up.

I hope today finds you well Frank, maybe some great walking weather in your area ? Please keep us posted, take care,
Carly : )
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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:00 PM   #85
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Hi Frank,

I was thinking about what Jerry mentioned regarding Talk Therapy. You have many questions as to the whys and how this disease affects you, you said finding out why is the key for you. Talking about it with a professional is a great way to get the answers you need.
Just a suggestion, but-
OK, you tried the VA counselor twice, you had a negative experience, maybe you could try again ? Isn't finding the answers you seek , being happy and healthy worth the effort ?
Finding someone with whom you can relate to is important, and it does take a few tries, imo. I call it finding the right fit. Though if I was in a crisis - anyone would be better than no one, but it took me several tries to find someone I clicked with, because I knew I needed to have someone long term, to cut through my BS that I ( sometimes) through out there ; )

Maybe this forum is a gateway to you being able to try something like counseling again, if you can be honest with us, then couldn't you with a professional?

To the right side of this page is a treatment locator, you just enter your zip code and a list of professionals in and around your area is available. That is a start.

I am so glad you have these 30 plus days under your belt, and that you realize perhaps it is time for the next step (s). That is progress !

I like what Jerry said about the higher power issue. But if that is a barrier to you taking this to the next level, then it can wait, like Rlee posted - he was an atheist and as Jerry posted, it is unique to the individual. I guess I am saying - don't over think it to the point of paralysis. You will find what works for you as long as you don't give up.

I hope today finds you well Frank, maybe some great walking weather in your area ? Please keep us posted, take care,
Carly : )
Hi Carly,

Both you and Jerry are right about therapy. I live about 3hrs. up and back from the va, but I think I will be moving to the or. coast., and it's easiest there.

As far as being honest with a therapist, thats a no brainer. If your not honest, why waste the time, as you won't get any help that way. How can they help if they don't know your real (and all) problems?

I really haven't had a bad pang to drink, as we have been trying to get over some crudd we cought. Now when we (I) start feeling better, that will be something else.

I feel like I drank last night. I just love to be sick. Of course, that might be one reason i'm not drinking, but I think the real reason is that I just don't want to feel like crap anymore. I really would like to get healthy, and stay that way.

The weather here (so cal.) is almost always fine for a walk. I walk around tall pine trees, and a lake up in the mountains. Hope things are going well for you too.

Frank
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Unread 11-04-2009, 04:24 PM   #86
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Frank,

Hi - You live in a beautiful area. It's getting cold here in the N.E., leaves just about off the trees, temps around 32 at night. It may be getting cold but..... there are no bugs.


Hope you feel better. Congratulations on your 30 days.


Regards
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Unread 11-04-2009, 08:55 PM   #87
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Hi Frank,

Sorry to state the obvious- Re: honest w/counselor ....
anyway, that's a real catch 22 - either be sick with the crud or feel better and possibly want to drink. Jerry had posted some great insight about cravings on Saint's thread - maybe you could take a gander at those.
6 hours is a long way to drive for counseling, does it have to be VA services? There are some great counselors with local/county MH/SA programs. Seeking a professional closer to you, logistically, would be ideal. ( I know this is another no brainer ) but I guess I am asking if you could consider private or even county services.

I will ask you on OT thread about OR. Coast - sounds very interesting!

Well, I do hope you and wife are feeling better soon. Take care, Carly
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Unread 11-04-2009, 09:02 PM   #88
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Frank,

Keep on doing what you are doing. Early sobriety is a rough time. Keep your mind open to new ideas and your heart open to inspiration. We are glad to hear you are 30+ days along. Be patient.

All the best,
Jerry
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Unread 11-05-2009, 02:10 PM   #89
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Frank,

Hi - You live in a beautiful area. It's getting cold here in the N.E., leaves just about off the trees, temps around 32 at night. It may be getting cold but..... there are no bugs.


Hope you feel better. Congratulations on your 30 days.


Regards
Hi Saint,

Thanks for the congrats. I live in the mountains at about 4400 elv., and it's been about 27-32 at night, but is t-shirt weather in the day time for now.

The intro to bananza was shot here in the 50s. Sounds great, but there is a reason I want to move from the state I was born and raised. Things aren't always as rosy as they seem, but no bugs here either. Ha!

Frank
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Unread 11-05-2009, 02:41 PM   #90
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Hi Frank,

Sorry to state the obvious- Re: honest w/counselor ....
anyway, that's a real catch 22 - either be sick with the crud or feel better and possibly want to drink. Jerry had posted some great insight about cravings on Saint's thread - maybe you could take a gander at those.
6 hours is a long way to drive for counseling, does it have to be VA services? There are some great counselors with local/county MH/SA programs. Seeking a professional closer to you, logistically, would be ideal. ( I know this is another no brainer ) but I guess I am asking if you could consider private or even county services.

I will ask you on OT thread about OR. Coast - sounds very interesting!

Well, I do hope you and wife are feeling better soon. Take care, Carly
Hi Carly,

Thanks for calling me on my s%%t about thearpy. I should be shot for being so lazy. My mo is "i'll do it tomorrow". Whats mh/sa?

The va is 3 hrs. up and back, but I have issues (possibly legal) with them. Long story about me getting rear ended almost 5 yrs ago, which is why I can't work.

Don't be sorry about stating the obvious. Other folks are reading, and they might need to hear it. I once knew a man who lied to his therapist, and I remember even back then thinking why would he do that knowing he won't get help, or at best it will take much longer.

I will look at saints thread. I'm feeling better today, and my wife is a little better. Thanks for asking.

Frank
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Unread 11-05-2009, 03:08 PM   #91
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Frank,

Keep on doing what you are doing. Early sobriety is a rough time. Keep your mind open to new ideas and your heart open to inspiration. We are glad to hear you are 30+ days along. Be patient.

All the best,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for telling me the things I need to here! I re read all of the threads you wrote to me, as many things just don't stick. Too much mind wandering.

We read an hour or two in bed every night, and i'm often having to re read a half a page or more because of it.

Patients is not my virtue. "Hand full frank" wants it all now, and my way, or i'l pick up my toys, and go home. I don't think i'm quite that bad, but my wife might disagree. Ha!

Again, thanks for the kind advice. I will try to follow it, hard head and all.

Frank
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Unread 11-05-2009, 07:18 PM   #92
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Frank,

I loved to watch Bonanza when I was growing up as a kid Hoss, Little Joe. Great stuff. I think the show was still in Black & White when I watched. Yeah, I know - that means I've been around the block and back a few times!

Sorry to hear you may be moving from a place you like. Doesn't sound like you're all that excited about it. You know what the say about the grass always being greener....

I believe M/H stands for mental health, S/A being substance abuse. Stay
healthy.

Regards
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Unread 11-05-2009, 08:35 PM   #93
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Hi Frank,
Glad you and Mrs. are feeling better. Your area does sound like a nice place, hey, I have seen Bonanza on Nick at Night ! Now I have that song in my head ; )
Yes, Saint is correct MH/SA = Mental health substance abuse- though I try not use the words Abuse /Clean and others, when I can, as it denotes something negative, perpetuating the stigma.
Tim posted some great info regarding "The Words We use Matter" I do respect that we all have the right to choose our own words and in meetings do go with the flow, but prefer to say Addiction Survivor .
IMO- it would benefit everyone, family members included, if the medical, insurance . employment, and legal system could /would recognize and change the stigma associated alcohol/substance issues and offer quality options, policies, procedures, for support /help...
ok... off my soapbox now : )
Well, I am sure that is more than you wanted to know !

It is funny you said patience is not your virtue, many of us have that in common... " I want it , I want it NOW " !! But, with time and work, patience ( in some areas of our lives) can be learned and accepted.

I think you are doing great. Keep moving forward !!
Take care, Carly : )
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Last edited by CarlyO; 11-05-2009 at 08:48 PM..
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Unread 11-05-2009, 09:59 PM   #94
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Frank,

I loved to watch Bonanza when I was growing up as a kid Hoss, Little Joe. Great stuff. I think the show was still in Black & White when I watched. Yeah, I know - that means I've been around the block and back a few times!

Sorry to hear you may be moving from a place you like. Doesn't sound like you're all that excited about it. You know what the say about the grass always being greener....

I believe M/H stands for mental health, S/A being substance abuse. Stay
healthy.

Regards
Hi Saint,

Didn't know bonanza ever did b&w. They started in the late 50's, so it sounds about right.

Don't really have a choice in moving, as the wages in ca. are dumbed down to nothing. Ca. used to be tops in wages, but as far as doing anything with your hands (and other things), it's now done for peanuts. Coming to a state near you.

Frank
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Unread 11-07-2009, 10:46 PM   #95
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Hi Frank,

just checking in with you - hope all is going well. Take care, Carly
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Unread 11-08-2009, 12:09 AM   #96
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Hi Frank,

just checking in with you - hope all is going well. Take care, Carly
Hi Carly,

Very nice of you to be checking in on me. I'm doing ok, and no big pangs yet. Hope things are ok with you guys also. I know that just thinking about moving causes stress, and we are both going through that now. Fun ain't it? Now that I bummed both of us out. Ha! Thanks Carly!

Frank
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Unread 11-12-2009, 12:20 PM   #97
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Hi Frank,
How are you ? Things have been quiet around the forum. I hope that is a good sign.
Yes, the whole process of moving can be quite stressful, I keep telling myself it will be an adventure, when I get overwhelmed.

Anyway, good to hear that you have not have not had powerful pangs to drink, this is progress!
Take Care, Carly : )
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Unread 11-12-2009, 03:50 PM   #98
Frankie
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Hi Frank,
How are you ? Things have been quiet around the forum. I hope that is a good sign.
Yes, the whole process of moving can be quite stressful, I keep telling myself it will be an adventure, when I get overwhelmed.

Anyway, good to hear that you have not have not had powerful pangs to drink, this is progress!
Take Care, Carly : )
Hi Carly,

Thanks for checking. I'm still not drinking, but I will be tested when I take my wife (two hour drive) to stay with her mom this sat. The problem is that we are still a little sick, but i'm better enough to think about getting some beer on the way back. I hope not.

Called a few alcohol shrinks yesterday. One wanted 250 just to say a few words over the phone to see if i could understand him. I think they might be from packistan. The receptionist was rude (in a thick accent) when I told her they lost me as customer. How long do you think you would servive in packistan with a thick foreign axccent, and being rude to people? Unbelievable. Can't wait to move to or. I will try again maybe today, or tomorrow. Tomorrow is always easier than today. Right?

How do I subscribe to a perticular thread? I'm sure it must be simple. Duh! Thanks Carly,

Frank
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Unread 11-12-2009, 06:39 PM   #99
R. Lee
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Keep coming back here & sharing Frank. R. Lee
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Unread 11-15-2009, 07:47 PM   #100
CarlyO
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Default Hi Frank- Eager to know how this weekend went- and Locator Link

Hi Frank,
Very eager to learn how this weekend went, if you want to share, I do hope it went went well.
Re: finding a professional...
Did you get the name for the specialist from the Locator Link here on the site ? If you did not- try that, most of the physicians/ specialists /counselors..want to be on the list so they may be more inclined to be more helpful from the reception to the specialist.

I think it is great that you at least picked up the phone and tried to find a professional to work with. It is all progress IMO. Just do not give up.
Rudeness is not a good sign, but maybe the receptionist was having a bad day ? Possibly, maybe ?
All I know is that I called around, and yes, there were places that I felt were judgmental, but also, I was on the defensive too. I kept calling, until... I found an office that was like we can get you in today, no problem, very kind, helpful.
Turned out, the specialist was in recovery himself, very down to earth specialist. My counselor, is not but has been working in the field for years, has dealt with loved ones, and is non judgmental- she genuinely wants to help.
**It is worth it when you find supports you are comfortable with. And will help you delve into the questions you have.

Until then, we are here for you, and you know the various supports out there.
Post an update when you have time- hope you and wife are home safe and sound. Take care, Carly : )
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