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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:05 PM   #1
smokey321
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Default Compare the WD symptoms between suboxone vs. hydrocodone family of pills

Just wanted to get some peoples oppinions on how they compare the withdrawal symptoms between suboxone and hydrocodone family of drug(lortab,percocet,etc.....)
I experienced the same type of symptoms....shakes,diarreah,vomiting,nausua..etc.. .
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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:14 PM   #2
Sub-Zero
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Well let's see, first I tapered too fast after a short treatment and felt achy and depressed, and finally relapsed, then I tapered slowly after a long treatment and hardly felt anything. So for me it wasn't good when I tapered fast but it was day and night when I tapered slowly.
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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:18 PM   #3
Mary
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Hey smokey321, I never did hydro. Just H. But the comparison between withdrawals of the two? Hell, I'd rather have my sub withdrawals than the regular garden variety flu. I wanted to die with H withdrawals. I did a nice slow taper gig and stopped at .5 with hardly any problem. -Mary
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Unread 12-26-2008, 12:26 PM   #4
Mike
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smokey,

(excerpt from my journal)

My first attempt with sub was a 30 day detox at NYU. (sub was still in FDA trials then) It was good the first week, then they started tapering me and it got real bad real fast. I stuck with it but about 2 weeks after the 30 days, I was either going to relapse or kill myself, so I relapsed. Later I learned I had PAWS, long-term changes in my brain caused by years of addiction were causing symptoms of depression and dread. 30 days wasn’t enough time to change my brain from an addicted brain to one that was in control.

After that I decided to get into another study and decided to stay in treatment as long as I needed to even if that was forever. The study last 1 year, then I transferred to a doctor (by then sub became FDA approved, thank god) Slowly, I began to rebuild my life, got a construction job (I used to be an engineer), found housing, new friends, different surrounding, just a whole new environment. I also found a great counselor who taught me how to put thoughts of H out of my mind when it popped in and how to deal with things without my reflex reaction to be getting drugs. This all took time, but slowly life got better, and keeping away from drugs became easier and easier and not a sacrifice at all.

I had planned on staying on sub forever, but decided to slowly taper to find the lowest dose that still worked (an economic decision) 8 months of that and I found I was at 1mg every other day and forgetting to take it sometimes (or not remembering until I was at work and couldn’t get it) So one day I realized it had been 3 days since I took any and decided to just stop. I figured I’d just go back on if I felt bad, so there was no pressure (which I think was big help) My doc gave me some Ambien because insomnia was what used to drive me to relapse. I had some trouble sleeping, but all in all, it was pretty uneventful. I was more sensitive to pain, but that should have been expected since I was effectively on some kind of painkiller for that 20 years. So after a 3 year treatment I was done with the medication part, but still went to counseling, but less than when I started.

That was 3 ½ years ago, I’ve been fine ever since and don’t have cravings or spend time fighting urges to use. It’s actually like it all happened to someone else. The main lesson here to me is, it takes time, there is no quick fix, but the process doesn’t have to be miserable, I don’t feel like I was suffering or fighting while recovering, more like rebuilding, and each new accomplishment felt good and fueled the nest step.

If I can do it anyone can, I was total waste, a real hopeless case. Now I have my own home, family, and a promising career. People I work with would never believe I once lived in an abandoned warehouse.
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Unread 12-26-2008, 03:22 PM   #5
TIM
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Here are a couple threads on tapers, many posts talk about withdrawal
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=16678
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=12821

Tim
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Unread 12-26-2008, 05:11 PM   #6
smokey321
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thats awesome mike.......good job.......im really happy for you..reading your story sounds as if one day it just left your body (the craving etc....) thats awesome.......I wish you the very best and thanks fo sharing that...
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Unread 01-27-2009, 12:54 AM   #7
suboxonemeth
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I was shooting high doses of oxy all day long and the withdrawal from that was not as bad as my 10 day detox center withdrawal from 12 mg suboxone after being on it for 3 months. I didn't do the taper because it would have taken too many weeks and after I got out of residential I began meth relapsing. I thought I would die and on day five had the night from hell and at 5am called 911. W/d from heroin and other full antagonists have w/d in 4-6 hrs but partial agonist suboxone holds that for beginning at 24hrs...so the w/d is stacked...so when it hits it is full force. I've been told I'd feel bad for the next 2 months.
Suboxone can be a blessing but there are some real drawbacks to it.
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Unread 01-27-2009, 05:24 AM   #8
maillady
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wow loved reading your story..what a wonderful testimony to others that there is HOPE after using for years..I am going on sub. have appt. in 10 days to start it for using perks and lortabs for a year..am now trying to wean off and didnt take anything yesterday and ended up in the ER for withdrawls with my legs pulling and alover feeling like crap..they sent me home with nothing..just cold turkey withdrawls til its over or hit the streets and get some percs until a couple days before the sub. appt. I cant take withdrawing for thre next 10 days.. I have to stay on the opiods to not be sick ..I feel I am making the right moves and moving to my ultimate goal of getting on the suboxone in 10 days and then as you have, begin to say goodbye to the opiod days..Good Job!
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Unread 01-30-2009, 06:19 PM   #9
Sunny1
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Hi Smokey,
I took norcos so I can give you my experience on sub vs. hydros.

When withdrawing or tapering hydros I felt like neverending death, had severe symptoms that rendered me non functioning. I would lock myself up at home. I would barely be able to get on the computer to compose a post so there was no way I could do regular things. I could barely pull myself together to pour my cats their food. I couldn't go out to get my mail, couldn't gather myself to pay my bills, couldn't call people back. My entire body from head to toe hurt, ached, throbbed, muscles scrunched up, joints hurt. I would sleep endlessly then have insomnia. The mental stuff was the worst for me, extreme anxiety and godawful panic, extreme depression, bursts of crying, freaking out, wild mood swings and irritability. I wished I was dead constantly to make it all stop. I had chills and sweats. Runny nose and eyes. Inability to concentrate. Dry heaves. Dizziness. Ok, I'm sure you get the picture.

Suboxone has been the complete opposite. I started too low, at 9mgs so I still had withdrawals from the hydro at that point. I went up to 24mgs and finally was relieved of the withdrawals. I've since tapered down to 1mgs and had almost nothing significant to speak of. The first couple months I had a problem with waking up and feeling slight withdrawal symptoms. I would feel icky and achy, a bit anxious in the mornings, then fine after taking the Suboxone. That has gradually gone away and I remember wondering how in the hell would I ever be able to get to a low dose when I was still having morning withdrawals, but gradually my body got better and here I am at 1mgs and no morning withdrawals.

So tapering the Sub, the only things I noticed were sometimes a temperature abnormality, feeling too hot or cold, sweaty face or hands, feeling a bit uneasy, tightness in my leg muscles upon waking up. That's all I can think of right now, I think I'm forgetting something, but I'll let you know when I think of it. It's been very mild and I didn't experience most of these symptoms during most of the tapering. It's been easier than I would've ever imagined. I can function as a regular person while tapering Suboxone.
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Unread 01-30-2009, 11:54 PM   #10
theswan
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It seems to me the "horror" stories with Suboxone wre when people did a fast taper. I hear that time and time again.

Slow is the way to go. I was on so many pills I can not really say how much. I was taking hydro's and oxy's when I went off and then on to suboxone. 16mg is what worked and is what I'm on except some days I forget 4mg ( my last dose ) I will taper soon to the lowest dose that works on my pain.

Glen
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Unread 02-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #11
ugafratboy1988
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Before I started taking sub, i was taking at least 6-8-10 Lorcet 10mg a day, if I could afford them, if not I would steal to get them (completely unlike the real me). I started on sub 2 days ago 2/4/2009 and I FEEL GREAT. I feel like I used to before this angel of death took ahold of my hand. The longest I have been sober in the past 3 years is for about 24 hours when I couldn't find any Lorcets to take. Sub 8mg three times a day is working great. I was in full blown withdrawls (muscle cramps, feeling like I could rip my forearms and calves right off or at least dig them out, sweating, vomiting, chills, diarrhea and all that good stuff) when I went to the Dr. he gave me one at the office and within ten minutes of taking one, I felt a whole lot better than I did when I went in. Today was better than yesterday, and I hope tomorrow is better than today. None of the withdrawl symptoms with me today, havent had a craving, havent wanted to use. Got a new cell phone today with a new number so I cant call my dealers anymore. I am committed to change and so far, change is good.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 11:17 PM   #12
theswan
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Hi Fratboy

Welcome. I'm happy you are doing well on suboxone. It worked like a wonder drug for me as well. I was sick as a dog and then I was OK.

Sub has a opioid but it is different as you will find out. The crave we get is just not here for a whole lot of folks. I'm sure not all but I would dare say most.

This not craving is the key as it allows a person to concentrate on recovery and healing. Be prepared as a few folks still have a lot against suboxone treatment. They will compare it to methadone. That is not close for me. I took methadone for pain and it stopped working in a couple of months and I wanted more.

Anyway, stay positve and keep an open mind. A taper will come for you but in your good time.

God bless

Glen
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Unread 02-07-2009, 11:24 PM   #13
Heath
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In the worst case scenario if one has to continue to take sub forever at a low dose (2-6mg) day, what's the big deal? It's cheaper than any illicit drugs that may have led to it, it's virtually impossible to od or abuse, you're taking it under professional medcial supervision, and you're not going to get arrested filling your script at the pharmacy.
Heath, overit
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Unread 02-08-2009, 01:15 AM   #14
OhioMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVERIT View Post
In the worst case scenario if one has to continue to take sub forever at a low dose (2-6mg) day, what's the big deal? It's cheaper than any illicit drugs that may have led to it, it's virtually impossible to od or abuse, you're taking it under professional medcial supervision, and you're not going to get arrested filling your script at the pharmacy.
Heath, overit


Hey Heath ..........

IMO...............

For those choosing to stay on it for very long term, the dose can even get as low as 1/2mg every other day.

As for abusing it. There are people who make it a replacement drug. No, it is not designed like that, it is not meant for that and it actually lends it's self to just the opposite.

But, it is our minds which can make that happen. Hell we addicts can make a Aspirin our replacement drug.

The bottom-line is, it falls to us. No excuses, we get out of recovery what we earn, be it with taking Sub or not. Keep that in mind as you learn about Sub and recovery in general. We own it, period. Good, bad or ugly!

Mike
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Unread 02-08-2009, 12:40 PM   #15
Heath
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That's a good attitude mike. I like it. Im starting to figure out how to use my sub.. Like blood pressure medecine. Doc told me not to wait until i breakthrough to dose while getting stabilized so now i'm doing it around 3pm today instead of waiting til nightime, it keeps me up so this should be better. And that way i'm not reinforcing addictive behavior by taking pills when i feel bad. The way i see it the doc doesn't ever want me to feel bad and now that i'm dosing earlier i won't feel breakthrough and it won't keep me up at night. Monday i go back to docs office and he told me my deal will more than likely be to take 4mg in am and 2mg in afternoon. So 6mg will be my daily dose, taken at 2 diff't times for a while and he said that after a month or so he might tell me to take it all in am if i want to or all in afternoon. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Either way is fine with me as long as i keep feeling good. It's like i tell the dr., "you're the boss and i'm just following orders, i trust u completely." if i didn't think i could trust my dr. I would switch drs..
Talk to u later mike. Enjoy your sabbath.
Heath.
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Unread 02-08-2009, 12:42 PM   #16
Heath
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How u feeling lady? Good i hope. I'm still doing fine, enjoying life. Really enjoying life. Write back i miss hearing from u.
Heath.
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Unread 02-10-2009, 07:24 PM   #17
joshfarc
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Where's smokey been anyway? He and his wife, or girlfriend, were so active here for a 2 week span or so.....then they just disappeared?

Hope you two are doing alright SMokey.......
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