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Unread 10-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #1
KatieCat
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Default Miserable! Help!

Hello everyone. I have been on Suboxone for almost 4 months (this time around), was on it for 7 months previously. I am absolutely miserable! I am aggitated all the time! I doesn't matter what dose I take, more or less, I am a walking time-bomb. I feel like I cannot get any satisfaction out of anything. It's like having sex, about to finish, and being un-able to (forgive me if this is vulgar, the only metaphore I could think of), that frustrated feeling. I feel that way ALL THE TIME! I want to SCREAM! **I have no appetite. I've lost ten or fifeteen pounds, food is repulsive to me. **I sleep too much, though, the first time I was on Sub, I slept for 20 hours a day. **Don't have a period. **Have terrible tingling/numbness/pain in my hands, feet, face, legs. I wake up with my arm or leg asleep and I can't even move it. When I get up I feel stiff and my joints hurt (I'm only 26), feel swollen. I don't WANT to get up, I feel so awful. **I smoke like a chimney now, 2 packs a day!!! **Instead of taking one medication (OC), I now have to take eleven, just to get out of bed and bathe myself and go to work. **I am so depressed. I don't see the point in this anymore.
I relapsed once, obviously. I failed a drug test, my doctor dropped me. He took me back a few months later after I nearly died trying to WD cold turkey at home. But he doesn't take me very seriously, he doesn't like me, doesn't listen to me anymore. This seems to be doing me far more harm than anything else I've done. I'm ready to throw in the towel. I was switched from Suboxone to Subutex, which helped some, I don't get headaches any more. I am bipolar as well, taking meds for that.Though the only thing that ever seemed to stablize me was the OC, as long as I had it. Someone please help!
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Unread 10-16-2010, 06:47 PM   #2
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Hi KatieCat, welcome. What dose are you on currently and how long have you been on that dose? Did you feel the same way when you took it the first time? Is one doctor prescribing you 11 medications?

Do you go to a therapist or any support groups?

Sorry for all of the questions, just want to be able to see if we can help you better.

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Unread 10-17-2010, 04:42 AM   #3
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I am prescribed to take two 8mg Subutex 2x daily. Felt awful, so I started taking one 8mg a day (1/2 2x a day). Previously, I was taking 8mg of Suboxone 3x a day, for about a month and then moved down gradually to 4mg/day or every other day. Before I felt very anxious like I do now, or I slept literally 20 HOURS A DAY, EVERY DAY.
I currently see my sub. doc and a psychyatrist for my meds. They both know what I am on. I have to have: 1. Subutex 2. Wellbutrin (depression) 3. Topamax (mood stabilizer) 4. Valium (which I do not take daily, maybe if I did I would feel better, but I would need SO much and don't want to start another problem, I've never been a benzo fan, Opiates don't make me drowsy like some people, they wake me up.) 5. Adderall (ADD/Bipolar) 6. Robaxin (for back pain/endometriosis) 7. Anti-annflamitory Prescribed (for backpain as well) 8. OTC tylenol, asprin, ibuprofin for backpain 9. OTC Nausea medication 10. OTC Milk of magnesia/laxitives 11. Multivitamins (because I can't eat) 12. B-12 vitamins (because I have NO energy).

In addition, I really need MORE medication for my bipolar disorder AND my pain is NOT being controlled AT ALL! I can hardly afford all the appointments and meds. I have now, let alone sqeeze in time, I would love to see a chiropractor, but it's just too much. I feel like I take more pills now and that I am more unhealthy now than when I was addicted to OC, atleast then I felt good, wasn't in pain, and was eating/sleeping, no side effects other than withdrawl. I just DON'T understand why I can't be prescribed ONE medication that does good for me, and have to take all this other junk that makes me INSANE!

I go to NA because I have to, but find that I crave drugs more after a meeting than any other time. After a meeting, I usually drive around for an hour or two debating if I am going to relapse or not. I see my therapist twice a month and I go to family counseling twice a month as well. I want to be sober, but not if it means feeling like this. And if I can recall, before I ever touched a drug, I felt very similar to this emotionally (depressed, hopeless, don't care about anything, unmotivated, etc.) ever since I can remember...
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Unread 10-17-2010, 08:48 AM   #4
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Hi KatieCat, have you thought about getting a second opinion from another psychiatrist who can possibly help you better, maybe one who specializes in bipolar disorder or medication management? It might not hurt, especially since you've felt that way since before you took any medications.

As for the meds, check out http://www.needymeds.org and see if you are eligible for any patient assistance programs. Here's another site that might be helpful for that:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=25334

Nancy
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Unread 10-17-2010, 01:08 PM   #5
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I know the feeling of nothing satisfying me. Like I am looking for something. However, it does not make me want to sleep. Mainly it is the feeling of nothing satisfying me. I think that is why I smoke more. Looking for something wandering aimlessly. Yes, I have lost my appetite too. Nothing tastes good. Not sure if it is the Suboxone or the fact that I am not on the Hydrocodone with the euphoria I had...it IS frustrating.....



KatieKat........

I meant to say also that I take Cymbalta 90 in the morning and 90 in the evening. Buspar, don't know if it is doing anything. Maybe the Cymbalta is helping the pain and the Suboxone might be also.
I don't understand why you are so tired. I know Robaxin DOES make one tired. I, too, and frustrated it sounds like neither of us feel like ourselves. It is an uncomfortable feeling to be wandering around with nothing satisfying you, KatieKat, and if ANYONE wants to pipe in about any of this I wish they would. I am like you----I thought that when I started taking the Suboxone I would wake up the next day and feel great and enjoy the things I used to enjoy when I was on the Hydrocodone. It has not worked like that at all. I enjoyed my movies, being alone, my computer, reading just fine when I took Hydrocodone and now, like you, I don't have any enjoyment from anything am irritable and always looking for something to satisfy me. Keep posting, we'll keep writing.

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Unread 10-17-2010, 03:24 PM   #6
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When I was on Sub I felt irritable as well and I found that it went away after a while but would occasionally pop back up, but I would rather have felt that way than continue using my DOC. Katiecat, you may be on too many meds. Please don't put the blame on Sub just yet instead I would do as Nancy suggested and get a second opinion. Also I was thinking that maybe when you used OC's it masked a lot of the feelings that you have now. Finding something such as counseling (I know you go but maybe going more than 2 times a month would help more) or a group such as the one called Celebrate recovery might help. If I may ask why are you required to go to NA? I was required to go to a group and it was hell as the people there didn't "approve" of Sub. I was also told I was taking too much Psych med and in fact I was (my pharmacist told me this and told me some of my meds interacted with one another which may be what's happening to you.) It took my pharmacist months to tell me about my meds interacting with one another Why I'll never know. IMO I would call a pharmacy and list all of your meds and ask about them interacting, I really would. I really hope you feel better soon and figure out whats going on and also remember to stay at the same dose of Sub (I'm not saying indefinitely) so that you stabilize, at least until you taper, because you will feel better than if you change your dose constantly, not that you change your dose because I don't know if you do or not, just offering up what I know. Keep us updated and again, I hope you feel better.
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Unread 10-17-2010, 05:34 PM   #7
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Katiecat- I also agree that maybe a 2nd opinion would be a great idea. Also, dealing with depression, anxiety and those other things (duel diagnosis) is something all in itself. The Suboxone is the first step in the road to recovery. The point of it is to help with WD and craving. It has taken me YEARS to find the right mixture of medications that worked for me. I also have chronic lower back pain from a fushion I had on my L5-S1 three years ago. I take the Sub not only for the addiction but also for pain (but when taking is for pain it's found that taking it more often I believe every 4-6 hours-someone correct if if I'm wrong) I was once on 12 medication while trying to be treated for depression, anxiety, insomnia, and pain and I was in active addiction at that time which didn't help either! I too found out that a lot of my drugs weren't meant to be taking together b/c the interact or counter react another one. Most of the meds you named may cause drowsiness, and since you are on so many of them it's not suprising that you are so tired. I know the few times I have ran outta my other meds, or I was just sick for 2 weeks and couldn't keep them down, I slept all day long, only got for maybe 4-6 hours. I would def check those things out and hopefully you can find answers. Also, if you go to Walgreens.com they have a section where you can chat with an actual pharmacist online and could just start there about giving a list of your meds and maybe see what they say for starters. Please keep us posted, and don't give up on the Sub just yet cause it sounds like there could be a lot of other things that may be playing a role in all of this. Good luck and welcome!
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Unread 10-17-2010, 06:55 PM   #8
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Hi Katie...
I just caught your post....hang in there. I am going through alot of the same....bipolar seems to be kicking A in me.
I don't have time at the moment....but I do want to keep in touch. I am reallly going through so much of the same thing.
I am on 3 different mood stabilizers and many of the others you spoke of. Pills pills pills! It's sickening...but that's what I need to get out of bed and be part of the human race.

I'll get in touch later....actually have appt. now with my psychiatrist....Sunday night...who would ever imagine???? (His private practice is out of his home and sees people on nights and weekends...lucky for me)
I'll be in touch...
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Unread 10-17-2010, 08:44 PM   #9
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Thanks everyone for your responses! The psych. I am seeing IS my second opinion. He is WONDERFUL, and I have known him most of my life (he treated my sister and we did family counseling with him when I was a teen). I am less tired now taking all these meds than I was when I was taking only sub. so I know it's not from that. I will agree, the muscle relaxers can make me sleepy, but only if I take 2 with the nausea meds.

I think it is just very difficult to treat me having the bipolar. It seems as soon as I start feeling okay, I will flip-flop and start feeling crappy again and need a new medicine to get me straight.

I guess The Stones were taking Suboxone when they wrote "No Satisfaction," because that is absolutely the WORST of all of this. I could handle EVERYTHING else but this AWFUL feeling! I have CRAVINGS that are UNREAL! I was addicted to crack at one point(for 2 yrs), beleive me, I know cravings! I quit that on my own, and NOTHING has had a hold of me like this OC, NOTHING. My family tells my almost daily that I look like crap and ask me if I am back on drugs! Yea, just not the good ones. I am force-feeding myself, speding TONS of money on protein shakes and supplements, so I don't waste away. My sub. doc. even had the nerve to get onto me about my weight loss. I tried to explain, but he wouldn't listen. Want to get a new doc, but the start-up costs are outrageous!

Trying to hang in there. Just reminding myself this is not as bad as the 11 days of cold-turkey WD that I went through. Thanks again everyone for your responses.




Quote:
When I was on Sub I felt irritable as well and I found that it went away after a while but would occasionally pop back up, but I would rather have felt that way than continue using my DOC. Katiecat, you may be on too many meds. Please don't put the blame on Sub just yet instead I would do as Nancy suggested and get a second opinion. Also I was thinking that maybe when you used OC's it masked a lot of the feelings that you have now. Finding something such as counseling (I know you go but maybe going more than 2 times a month would help more) or a group such as the one called Celebrate recovery might help. If I may ask why are you required to go to NA? I was required to go to a group and it was hell as the people there didn't "approve" of Sub. I was also told I was taking too much Psych med and in fact I was (my pharmacist told me this and told me some of my meds interacted with one another which may be what's happening to you.) It took my pharmacist months to tell me about my meds interacting with one another Why I'll never know. IMO I would call a pharmacy and list all of your meds and ask about them interacting, I really would. I really hope you feel better soon and figure out whats going on and also remember to stay at the same dose of Sub (I'm not saying indefinitely) so that you stabilize, at least until you taper, because you will feel better than if you change your dose constantly, not that you change your dose because I don't know if you do or not, just offering up what I know. Keep us updated and again, I hope you feel better.
My doctor requires me to go to NA. My 4 counseling sessions a month, and my online support things aren't enough, I MUST attend NA. In fact, he's probably going to drop me this month, because I haven't made it to the required meetings. The only ones that I can make it to because the times are conveinent for me, he told me I wasn't allowed to attend, because "drug dealers go to those." Whatever.
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Unread 10-17-2010, 09:58 PM   #10
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I went through very similar things throught the first few months on Suboxone. It seemed like I was always posting about how bad things were and how much I missed the "HIGH". I actually stopped posting because I felt like I was bringing people down. I still read daily because I learn so much here but don't post very much. I really just wanted to tell you that your not alone at all. I think some people just have more problems a first than others, but for me I think I was bringing myself down because I just wasn't ready to except it was over. I too function better on opiates then I do on subs, but only when I had enough to satisfy my needs and at 200.00+ dollars a day I was ruining my family. I am doing a lot better now, I'm not going to say things are great because that would be a lie, but I am learning to except it and make the best of each day..

My doctor also told me that I have to go to NA as well, it was a must, I even had to sign a contract stating I would go. What I learned is NA is private and no one can ever say if you were there or not. Even when you have to get a court card signed its only initals, and I don't think Dr.'s can have a signed card? At least mine didn't and I never seen anyone who has.

Anyway awhile back someone on this forum told me to find something I enjoyed doing and force myself to get out and do it. I thought "ya, f'n right the only thing I like doing is getting high".

I tried a many things and even relapsed it took me awhile to face that I needed to get through this. I had tried a few half assed attemps with NA a few times and trust me I had many issues with it. This last time I began attending meeting everyday and not just sitting in the back with my head down, but raising my hand, getting a sponser, reaching out for help and I have come so far. Although I don't tell everyone about my subs a lot of people know and except it. The biggest thing I have learned is i'm not alone and I have met many people who are teaching me how to function in society without opiates{Which I never thought was possiable}.

I'm not saying NA is for everyone, and I know many people are against it, but it worked for me.Even if you dislike NA maybe a try and find a hobby, sport, working out, or hanging out with friends who don't use. Once I forced myself to get out and make something out of each day even though I didn't want to get out of bed, I learned I can do something with out being high. I had to go as far as making a chart saying Monday clean cat box, work, park with kids, dinner, NA meeting ect. for each day and make myself follow through with it and at some point a few weeks ago I began living.

Its been a long road for me, a road that at many times I wanted to give up, and some how I have made it 116 days with out using. I really wish the best for you, you can do this, chase your recovery like you chased your high!! GOOD LUCK
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Unread 10-17-2010, 11:47 PM   #11
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Hi Katie.
My name is Linda. I too have this Bipolar issue. I go through this "rapid cycle" that you are talking about. One minute up, the next down down down. We are cycling. Sounds like you might have a little manic going on....I am no Doc....but you are racing with all your thoughts. This is why you need the meds. There is a purpose.
I so relate to the fact of how good you felt, while on the opiates, but you have to remember, I think this is the case if you are here.....they stopped....I am guesssing your tolerance built up and you required more and more and more.....anyway, that is what happened for me. I still dream about the opiate high. I am 1 1/2 years into this suboxone thing, and just lately, find myself wishing for my opiate back. Not so much a physical craving, but just a momentary relief from this horrible bipolar shit.
I am on Lamictal, Seroquel and Tegretol, all mood stabilizers...have finally sucumb to the benzos....nerves just can't be with out them. Not my drug of choice, but I do get a little relief from it...slight....My pdoc wishes for me to take them through out the day....but I say no way!.....I am also on ADD med, Dexadrine.....found this to be easier on me than the Adderall.....Adderall produced panic attacks in me, and the Dex does not seem to. It is a much "cleaner" drug and in a more simple form than the adderall....with less peripheral effects.....you see, I have been through alot of trial and errors.

The friggin side effects, I think are the toughest part....I get so scared when a new med is introduced.....usually, because I become non functional...and am so afraid of actually feeling worse.....just have to go on blind faith with my pdoc.
I too, have a wonderful one....has helped me out so much with meds (parm coverage ran out) finds ways to work the system and get me what I need. He is also my therapist.....this is rare.

Hang in there.....this is a horrible time you are going through ....alot to iron out...which sounds so minimal.....but that is what it is. What works for one person, has no healing for another...it is purely a crap shoot....
Besides the three mood stabilzers, I take 16mgs. of suboxone, about 2 mgs throughout the day of xanax and then the Dexedrine I mentione...what is that...about 6 or 7 different major meds????? Tough shit, being put in my brain.
I sometimes wonder, just how my brain knows how to react,,,,one med says do this, another tells it do that, and the list goes on....it confuses me.....imagine what is going on inside out heads!!!
Perseverence is the name of the game.....my doc swears to me, that we will "hit it", and will all of a sudden realize, "Wow, I just had three good days in a row....without really realizing it.....He has treated many bipolars and has many years experience behind him.

I think we are on to something with the Tegretol....was on the trileptal first.....bad side effects and he pushed me toward the Tegretol. Naturally, I resisted, but finally listened....You see, one is oxycarbazopine and the other just carbazopine....what the heck is the difference, especially if it were making me feel worse.....anyway, I finally gave it a try, and I have had a couple of good days in a row.

My rapid cycling, has seemed to slow down a bit....not high as a kite and then into a ball of tears today.....first time in the 1 1/2 years!!!!

I don't mean to sound like any type of know it all....but i am hearing so much of myself in you.....in fact, I am so much still in all this bipolar mess....this friggin opiate addiction, seems like a piece of cake to me now, compared to my bipolar treatment.....You see, when I put down the percocets....bipolar went on fire.....all these years....I have been self medicating, like you, in some drug, drink, shape, way of form.....anything but feel the real me....just came crashing down, when the 40+ percocets a day, wouldn't do the trick anymore....no where else to turn....then I was left with all this to contend with.

I have said an awful lot here. I just haven't come across anybody else here, that is anywhere close to what I am encountering with my other mental health issues.....sorry to tell you, but it is really good to hear you.....and you are so well spoken and so aware of the challenges.....that is good....you are being very honest with yourself, and that will keep your healing doors open.

Hang in there, and I really hope I hear more from you.
All my best to you.....
Linda
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Unread 10-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #12
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Thanks, Linda! It is good to hear that someone else knows what I'm going through with the bipolar on top of the rest, though I'm sorry that anyone has to live through this.
I was diagnosed 3 years ago. I've tried many meds. It seems the heavy duty mood stabilizers just suck my soul out. At first I feel like a zombie, but then I get used to it and I'm okay, but it's like my soul is just gone. I'm functioning, doing my daily tasks, but in black and white. If that makes any sense. So I've been fighting the heavy stuff.

I got back on the Suboxone because I ran out of money. I was up to 20+ 30mg roxy a day and as many 80mg OC as I could get my hands on. I was really forced into sobriety and not really ready for it, I guess that is my problem. It's just easier that way. It makes sense to me. It seems like the "cure" that my doctor and myself and I'm sure millions of others have been looking for as far as this bipolar crap goes. I can focus, I am stable, I feel the same ALL THE TIME when I'm on it. And that is really all I want. Sometimes I wonder if my disorder is caused by a chemical imbalance that is corrected by the opiates.

If I could find another medicine, JUST ONE MEDICINE that could make me focus, make me CARE, make me get out of bed, treat people with respect, be the same person day in and day out, eat normally, sleep normally, and not be in CONSTANT pain~ if I could find another medicine that would do that for me, then I would be just fine. But I can't. And it drives me insane that I have to be so miserable all the time, when I know all I have to do is take one medicine and feel normal, most of the time.

Guess I'm not ready to let go yet. Anyway, I'm trying to hang in there. I want to write a book, I'm trying to anyway. I feel that is my purpose in life, the only reason that I have survived the crazy things I have. And unlike some writers, I can only write when I'm SOBER. So, that is the only thing keeping me sober and alive, my desire to write.

Thanks again everyone for your support. I hope I don't bring anyone down with my terrible mood. Hopefully next time I post I'll be in a better mood. After all, tomorrow is another day.
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Unread 10-18-2010, 07:54 PM   #13
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Hi Katie.
God, we have so much in common....I was forced into it also....the money thing....I am sorry you have pain on top of all of this also....What is that from, an injury or a condition?

I felt like you did in the beginning, about how the opiates made me feel human. In fact, somewhere in
here, in the archive, is a very interesting article about this. Perhaps Nancy could find this for you.

Honestly though, give this time....it does get different. It wasn't until just lately that I started thinking about the opiates again. It is not so much a craving, but it is more like a thought...a thought that has me romancing what the opiates could do for me......but I have to remember, that it stopped at one point. There came a time that there just wasn't enough out there to keep feeding me.

There are alot of meds out there that can "trick" our brains for us, and put us in a place that gets us to a reasonable state of functioning....trouble is, it is dfferent for every person and we have to go through alot of trial and error....this part really sucks, sometimes the side effects are worse than the disease.

I can't tell you, how good it feels to have someone here that understands all this. Some people, go on 1 med and then move merrily along......it is taking far more than that for me....and it has been a very rocky road.

Hang in there....sounds like you have a great reason to stay in this...what type of book are you writing?
How far along have you got? This is a huge undertaking, and you should be proud. That is lucky, how you say, being sober is best for you to do your writing...For alot of people, they worry they may loose creativity when they put their DOC down. I think it's the bipolar thing that allows this for you....or so I have heard....not too sure, to be creative.. Some bipolars say they are very creative without the meds.....not a good idea though, as this leads us , eventually, into a complete bottoming out.

I am glad to hear some good things from you. Focus on them and nurture them...not the other stuff. Hopefully the romance of it all will leave you, if you just give the subs a chance to work.

Also, keep an eye out for any interactions with other meds and the sub. I had to up my sub slightly, figuring out, I was going through a little withdrawl. The tegretol and trileptal lessen the strength of subs inside me....something about metablolism....but we finally figured it out and made the proper adjustments. Last week, I was posting in here, how miserable I was. It's amazing, just one week later, how different I feel.
Still not at desired point, as I am still doing a bit of this stupid "cycling", but it its less frequent. and I just don't trust anything yet.
Hang in there, keep posting. Talk talk talk.....and read as much as you can here. it has really helped me.

Take care Katie.
It is so nice to have you here.
Linda
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:18 PM   #14
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KatieCat
I am glad you are sticking it out, but you have said a lot of things that stick out to me. I will give you my opinion on some of those things, and you can do as you please. I think a big thing in getting sober and staying sober is the personal want to do it. It sounds like you are some what there, but you also said because of money and stuff, you were kinda forced into it. You have to really want this, to never want to be back where you were, to really and truly want to change who you are and the life you are living. Cravings are part of quitting. some people will have very vivid dreams for a long time after they stop. A lot of people have "triggers", things that we see, or feel, or do that make us think about that DOC and wanting to use again. One of the things the Suboxone should be doing is helping with those cravings, and if you are still having them then you may need to have your dose adjusted. Same thing with WD's, if you are having any feelings of WD then again you may need your dose adjusted. It took me personally a long time of wanting and trying to quit before I finally saddled up and said "ok, this is it, no more!" People can't use they're family, or kids, or anything for a reason to quit, it has to be you being ready, willing, and able to quit. While the people we love and care about may play a role in that, I believe that until you are the one sayg ok, I'm done, that's it, then you are going to have some of those wishy washing feelings. I too suffer from bipolar, along with a lot of diagnosis', and I know how hard that can be, physically, mentally, and emotionally on someone. When you ad that to addiction and any other problems in your life, it makes it feel like it's all just impossible to do. But it's not, because many people have. Many people who are bipolar, have anxiety, insomnia, and even a lot of other very serious and even terminal life illnesses and diseases. The thing is, you can't always use your depression as an excuse. I am not by any means saying that you aren't feeling or expierencing the things you say, I know all too well about the things you are feeling. But we can't use that as something that holds us down for the rest of our lives, otherwise none of us would be able to get better. Also, you have to remember that medication is not a cure to these disease's. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Suboxone, depression meds, sleeping meds, even people who have to take insulin. We still have to make changes in the way we are living our everyday life! We can take every medication that is out there, but there is not one magical happy pill that you can take and *boom* everything is better. We have to start looking at our life from the outside, and start changing things on the inside. I know when I am not on my medicatons, or even when I need and adjustment in my meds, I become destructive. I start being short and rude and just flat out angry with my friends and family, I isolate, I can't sleep, or I will sleep all day, it's like my life starts falling apart. I also know that even with a change in meds or an adjustment in a dose, I still have to do my part. I started making a list. A list of things I wanted to do AND a list of things I HAVE to do. Having a list of things I HAVE to do helps me to get up and get motivated. 1) Wake up and get daughter ready for school 2)Walk and feed the animals 3)Cook dinner for the family, ect. I even add 1 thing on there I donn't have to do, but I know if I can just get up and make my bed for that day then I am getting somewhere. On the list of things I want to do, I pick at least 1 thing off of that a day and be sure to do it (ie. water the plants, do a load of laundry, clean the bathroom) and then after I do that, and I still feel like I can, I will pick another thing that I want to get done. We have to start somewhere or we are never going to start!
The reason a lot of us were using in the first place is because it masks all these feelings we don't want to have and it allows us to do things that we wo9uldn't be able to do ot want to do without. We were in out active addiction for so long that once we quit, it's hard to accept the fact that we now have to face all these things we didn't even think about before. That is one of the hardest things we have to do when we stop using, is learn how to function without that DOC. And especially when we were using for long amounts of time, weeks, months, years. It's not easy, and no one ever said it would be. We are practically starting our life over.
So again, please don't miss understand me, and I understand these feelings and problems you are having. I do not deny that, and this is all just my opinion. But you have a lot of work that you yourself have to take control of. All those medications you are taking are just used to help you get better, but if you are not doing your part, then they aren't going to work! You really and truly have to want this, not just be doing it cause you can't afford your DOC anymore, because it just makes it that much harder. I wish you the best of luck, and I know you CAN do this, but it's time for you to finally take control over your own life, and quit allowing other people and medications do that for you. Most importantly...take it one day at a time, heck...take it once minute at a time. Don't focus so much on the future, live in the right now, just get thru this minute, this hour, this day!
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Unread 10-19-2010, 10:13 PM   #15
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Wow tlg I do the same thing I thought I was really lame LOL. I has really changed the way I begin each day I think its something about having those things in writing that help me get to them.

Katecat- I hope your having a great day and are feeling a little better!
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Unread 10-20-2010, 12:00 PM   #16
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LOL, you're not lame. We have to do what we gotta do, and if that means writing down your whole days routine just to keep you motivated and all the right track, then do it! It can become very overwhelming, and being bipolar, or really any kinda of duel diagnosis, can really make it hard on you, especially when you're trying to kick an addiction and change your life for the better. I finally realized, after a VERY LONG time of fighting with it, that it was going to get better, and I did have hope, but I had to do my part in making it get better and not just rely on all the medications they were shoving in my mouth. If I go a few days without my meds, I get sucked back under, and the hopeless, worthless feeling starts to come bac, and it takes everything that I have in me not to let it get the best of me! Once I get back on those meds, and back on track, life starts to get better! As long as we aren't using, then we should do whatever it takes to make the most out of lives. I am also glad I am not the only one who makes a list, but since I started doing that, I have given the idea to many people, and at least half of them have tried it and still use it today. I even started a list for my daughter, to remind her what all she needs to do thru out her day (keep doors closed, pick up room, homework, feed dogs, ect) Just like a grocery list, if you write it down, then most likely you wont forget it, and it will motivate you! I wish you all the best of luck! We can take what we need from other people's exerpiences, and throw the rest out. But if what I say helps at least one person out there, then I feel like I have done what I set out to do. We all have it in us, it's just trying to figure it out that's hard! KatieCat, I hope today is a better day, and tomorrow is even better! Best wishes to all of you! <3
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Unread 10-21-2010, 10:08 AM   #17
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Tig~ Thank you for your words of kindness and understanding. It is nice to know that I am not theonly one dealing with bipolar and addiction, well, of course, I knew I wasn't, but it's good to talk to others, I feel SO alone. My family doesn't understand, my friends don't understand. They say, "why can't you just suck it up and get over it?" And my parents don't understand this whole "one day at a time" concept. I'm living with them right now, so it is very easy to get overwhelmed with worry over the future, when my father is yelling at me every day about it.

You are so very right about wanting to do it for me. I know I don't EVER want to go back to where I was, but my stubborness doesn't always allow me to accept that there is NO MIDDLE GROUND. I still want to think that somewhere there is some perfect world that exsists where I can have infinante money and drugs and stay high all the time. I almost always refuse to accept things that I don't like~ it is a blessing and a curse~ I guess that's where the Serenity prayer comes in.
Because of the bipolar, I live in several different versions of myself. I have about five different moods. When I'm "rational", I REALLY want to be SOBER! However, the only time I am "rational" it seems is when I'm high. I do have sober days when I am like this, but they are few and far between. When I'm "dreamy"/manic, sometimes I want to be sober too, just not as much, because I want to write and I can't write well when I'm high. So about 40% of me does truly want it. It's just making that other 60% go away; not getting in those moods, I guess. Because I don't think that those versions of myself will ever want sobriety. >>>WOW<<<, that probably sounds really crazy, but my moods are just whacked right now and that's the best way I could explain it.

The list thing is great! Thanks! I did this the last time I was on Suboxone and I totally forgot about it! But I remember now, back then I couldn't even get out of bed and one day I just said enough is enough and I made a list of things to do the next day and I got up and did them. I will try this again.

I might need a dosage increase. Not sure. Kind of afraid to. It's like I have no physical WD, but I'm still having mental ones.

I did see my psych. this week. He put me on Lamictil. I have not tried it yet, usually these meds make me drowsy the first day. I'm waiting until my weekend starts (Sunday) to try it. Maybe this one will work.

I am feeling a little better though. Just talking to everyone has been a wonderful stress reliever! Thanks! Have a wonderful day!
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Unread 10-21-2010, 01:12 PM   #18
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Katie-
I get having family and friends who don't understand, and that can be really hard. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? A lot of times when we are making this change in our life, it is time to find new friends, better ones who are supportive and helpful and are willing to understand. Unfortunatly we can't do that with out family, they will always be there, and the fact that you are living with them can make it a bit more difficult, but this is YOUR life, and they have to remember that. If they want you to get better, both with your bipolar and your addiction, then they need to take a step back and wait for you to come to them! As far as the way you think when you are having different moods, it's up to you to change that way of thinking. If you don't try and do anything about it then it will continue to take control over you and only make it that much harder. You say you don't ever want to go back to where you were, then it's time to take control. Only you can change that way of thinking, the medications help to stabalize your moods and not have so many wishy washy episodes of different emotions. Once you get stabalized on a medication, then it's a great feeling to not feel like you are being pulled in every different direction of emotions, but you are still left with these thoughts of using. There is only 1 you, and you control it, and yes you will have different feelings and emotions and good and bad days, but when all is said and done, you still control you for the most part. You need to find a way to make those thoughts disappear when you are feeling manic, or depressed, or having anxiety. find something to do to take up the time so you don't just think there wishing you were high. I don't really have any other way to explain it, but the ball is in your court, and I know you can do this if you really want to. You've been given all the tools you need, so now it's time to go out there and use them to the best of your ability. You have a lot of supprt right here, as well as your Sub doc and if you have a therapist, attend meetings, ect.

I have been on Lamictal for 2 years, and for me it's worked great, but I also had to have another medication added to help stabalize my moods. I hope that you can find the same reliefe from this medication, but if not, don't give up hope! I am glad you are feeling a little better, and I hope you continue to feel better. Good luck!
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Unread 12-10-2010, 01:58 AM   #19
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katie and linda: Just from reading your post it has made me realize something...I had to go see an addiction specialist because my suboxone was giving me bad headaches, making me edgy, moody, feels like im running a fever/flushed, cant give the dog a good word...spoke with a counselor this morning and she ask me if I had ever been diagnosed with bipolar or adhd....My father has bipolar disorder and has for 15+ yrs now and Ive had severe ADHD which has gotten worse as ive got older or maybe when i was younger just didnt seem to notice it as bad, but ive never been prescribed anything for my adhd before...must tell you my main reason for going to this addiction specialist was because i was previously taking suboxone, they started giving me the awful headaches and edgy feeling, up/down, after about 2 weeks feeling like crap, making me almost want to break over due to the edgy, moody, and headaches. I named it to my doctor and he switched me to subutex for 6mts, and actually those helped me live a normal life, noticed you said the texs helped some for you...well my doctor all of sudden this past 2 weeks when i went back switched me back to suboxone, now mind you after 6mths of doing great on the subutex, he said that he could only treat pregnant women with subutex, so it was the suboxone film and i was skeptical because of the side effects i was having previously and he cold heartly said "theres not enough of naloxone in that suboxone should be causing those kind of symptoms" well it pissed me off and i left there crying as if he just sit there and called me a liar. I tried the film, tomorrow will make 2 weeks, and now its right back to the edgy up down, flush, feel like crap, headaches arent as bad though. Well I done the patient physican match up they are talking about on the forum here from naabt.org to find another understanding and possibly cheaper doctor...and a physician contacted me after i had to do a summary of why i was needing to contact them, side effects of suboxone, way my doctor treated me and all this, even about where he basically made me out to be a liar....well the doctor that contacted me said that he might could help me and said that first i would have to go to an addiction specialist and get evaluated before treating a non prego person with subutex. I met just with a counselor today and got appt for next tues with the specialist. She named to me that there could be a connection with the naloxone and bipolar/adhd based on theory of the patients that are having these hypersensitivity to suboxone but not the subutex were mostly the adhd and bipolar. You know that is how i feel that if im gonna go around feeling like crap on the suboxone and than im afraid im gonna break over and relapse....I told her today that when i did use street drugs that stuff always works backwards for me than most, ex. coke makes me quiet, chocolate makes me sleepy, marijuana makes me sleepy and quiet, even right down to the colors of pills like a blue lorcet 10 makes me sleepy and green lorcet 10 hypes me up, and they both have 10mg of hydrocodone but the green has little more tylenol and a different color(I know this sounds crazy to most, or that you may be saying that i just think that they do me different but i promise you i know when somethings does me different than others and if anyone has ever experienced this than they will know what im talking about).......I will know more when i see the addiction specialist this coming tues(the actual specialist and not the couselor-she just screened me today). I think it helps browsing and seeing the reactions of others and that is how they discover things like by percentage of people it helped/didnt help, like a survey....maybe I should start a subject on that "adhd/bipolar on suboxone/subutex" just to see what kind of responses we get, what do you all think?
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Unread 12-11-2010, 06:35 AM   #20
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Hello everyone. I have been on Suboxone for almost 4 months (this time around), was on it for 7 months previously. I am absolutely miserable! I am aggitated all the time! I doesn't matter what dose I take, more or less, I am a walking time-bomb. I feel like I cannot get any satisfaction out of anything. It's like having sex, about to finish, and being un-able to (forgive me if this is vulgar, the only metaphore I could think of), that frustrated feeling. I feel that way ALL THE TIME! I want to SCREAM! **I have no appetite. I've lost ten or fifeteen pounds, food is repulsive to me. **I sleep too much, though, the first time I was on Sub, I slept for 20 hours a day. **Don't have a period. **Have terrible tingling/numbness/pain in my hands, feet, face, legs. I wake up with my arm or leg asleep and I can't even move it. When I get up I feel stiff and my joints hurt (I'm only 26), feel swollen. I don't WANT to get up, I feel so awful. **I smoke like a chimney now, 2 packs a day!!! **Instead of taking one medication (OC), I now have to take eleven, just to get out of bed and bathe myself and go to work. **I am so depressed. I don't see the point in this anymore.
I relapsed once, obviously. I failed a drug test, my doctor dropped me. He took me back a few months later after I nearly died trying to WD cold turkey at home. But he doesn't take me very seriously, he doesn't like me, doesn't listen to me anymore. This seems to be doing me far more harm than anything else I've done. I'm ready to throw in the towel. I was switched from Suboxone to Subutex, which helped some, I don't get headaches any more. I am bipolar as well, taking meds for that.Though the only thing that ever seemed to stablize me was the OC, as long as I had it. Someone please help!

I also find the meetings useless it a bunch of people whinnying and complaining and reminding me of how fun the drugs are. How come they MAKE you go to those? I get suboxone prescribed but none of the meetings are mandatory. It does make me a bit crazy too but if i have a glass of wine i feel better. Also therapy might not be helping for a few reasons and one of them is because 95% of therapists are useless and just waste your money. I know that how? Because thats my degree and ive gone to allot of therapist in my lifetime because of OCD, ADD, BIPOLAR and occasional shitzophrenia.

If i were you i would try to get off any psychotropic medications. Also to not be taking all the meds you will eventually need to taper of of subs but you are obviously not ready as you fear that you will relapse. What really has helped me to stay away from doing drugs is writing down the HHUGE reasons of why the drugs have influenced my life bad, and people that drugs have made me associate with. And write a list of your life goals.

Then you can look at that list every morning to remind yourself of all the BAD things you ve had. And to remind yourself of all the good things you are aiming for by becoming clean. And whenever you feel like you might relapse again, pull out that pice of paper and look at the reasonings. All while doing that try to find a good therapist who actually advances how you feel rather then waste your money. And as soon s you are ready try to get off subs because they aren't good for our mental state ether. Also i can imagine spending this enormous amount of money on all the stuff they have you do and all the meds they have you take doesn't help your stress levels ether. I have been on mine for 2 month and am more then ready to taper of.

Hope you are doing better and hope my advice was somewhat of a help.




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Thanks, Linda! It is good to hear that someone else knows what I'm going through with the bipolar on top of the rest, though I'm sorry that anyone has to live through this.
I was diagnosed 3 years ago. I've tried many meds. It seems the heavy duty mood stabilizers just suck my soul out. At first I feel like a zombie, but then I get used to it and I'm okay, but it's like my soul is just gone. I'm functioning, doing my daily tasks, but in black and white. If that makes any sense. So I've been fighting the heavy stuff.

I got back on the Suboxone because I ran out of money. I was up to 20+ 30mg roxy a day and as many 80mg OC as I could get my hands on. I was really forced into sobriety and not really ready for it, I guess that is my problem. It's just easier that way. It makes sense to me. It seems like the "cure" that my doctor and myself and I'm sure millions of others have been looking for as far as this bipolar crap goes. I can focus, I am stable, I feel the same ALL THE TIME when I'm on it. And that is really all I want. Sometimes I wonder if my disorder is caused by a chemical imbalance that is corrected by the opiates.

If I could find another medicine, JUST ONE MEDICINE that could make me focus, make me CARE, make me get out of bed, treat people with respect, be the same person day in and day out, eat normally, sleep normally, and not be in CONSTANT pain~ if I could find another medicine that would do that for me, then I would be just fine. But I can't. And it drives me insane that I have to be so miserable all the time, when I know all I have to do is take one medicine and feel normal, most of the time.

Guess I'm not ready to let go yet. Anyway, I'm trying to hang in there. I want to write a book, I'm trying to anyway. I feel that is my purpose in life, the only reason that I have survived the crazy things I have. And unlike some writers, I can only write when I'm SOBER. So, that is the only thing keeping me sober and alive, my desire to write.

Thanks again everyone for your support. I hope I don't bring anyone down with my terrible mood. Hopefully next time I post I'll be in a better mood. After all, tomorrow is another day.
I really disliek that they teach americans here that they need to get medicated to feel OK if they are BIPOLAR (which in fact is a made up term to sell more meds). I myself am extremely lets say different . if to put it in terms i got it all , bipolar, repression, ocd , add and whatever else you want to throw in there. I tired meds. They worked for a little while but at the end they cause major mental disabilities and i wud liek to stay sane. After that i quit all the stupid meds and i learnt to accept myself, And love myself with all my madness. And now? Everyone else also loves me for my medness. They even tell me "I love you so much because you are crazy and you are reall, and you love it"

And it was hard road to my current content. But hell it was worth it!
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Unread 12-11-2010, 08:27 AM   #21
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I promise you that Bipolar is not a "made up term"...sorry to correct you but it is actually a chemical imbalance in the brain, the reason I know this is my family and I have experienced this first hand with him....he is manic/depressive and to the extreme of it...Im sure everyone may have some symptoms that are mild or severe based on the person. There are even people that feel "nothing is wrong with them" as was obvious by my father and you could never convience him that he had a disorder, even though it was obvious to us that he did...now dont take me wrong...some have mild symptoms that dont require any treatment. Others are more severe as evident by:
What is Chemical Imbalance of the Brain?

Common chemical imbalances related to mental or emotional health disorders such as stated above include:
  • Reduced availability of neurotransmitters like Serotonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine, GABA and Acetylcholine
  • Increased levels of neurochemicals such as Homocysteine which is very toxic
  • Lower levels of serum Magnesium, Zinc or Potassium
  • Deficient levels of essential vitamins like B6, B9, B12 and Vitamin-C
  • Under supply of key co-factors like amino acids that are used to help transport neurotransmitter percursors into the blood-brain barrier
  • Increased cortisol stress hormone levels.
My father had more the depressive phase than the manic, as evident by he had this "paranoia/schiz type mixed with it to where he thought that the FBI was out to get him" he even had this "wild" look in his eye that you could tell that something wasnt right with him. My father never drank alcohol, never ever used drugs, that how we know that it wasnt drug induced. We had to get a mental warrant on him because he kept saying there wasnt anything wrong with him and it was the hardest thing ever to do, but he thanks us now, but at the time he didnt want to seek help. He was placed on haldol and other meds to help "level" him and help with his depression and live a more normal life. I think the depressive phase is the most dangerous phase because that is the phase where people actually can be a danger to themselves or others such as suicide. I wasn't contradicting you, tipsy, when you said that bipolar is "a made up term to sell more meds" but unless you have experienced it first hand or been around someone with the severe phases of it, it really is a diagonosis and mental condition. Im little manic myself but I tolerate myself at this "hyper" phase, lol...May God bless each and everyone of u....
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Unread 12-11-2010, 08:06 PM   #22
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Yeh but think about it. EVERYTHING that is different about a person from the CROWED we can put a term on it. In reality all it is is that you are freaking different. And now a part of a huge crowed of robots. Embrace it and stop treating it as disability.

EXAMPLE:

1. For you it really bothered that ive made such a strong statement without backing it up with explanation therefor you had to respond with write ups by USA doctors or books or whatever ( i cant read that much i ve done enough reading through out life and my every night book up to day) so let's call this condition - UER Unbearable Emotions to Respond

2. Me on the other hand i am so opinionated and because ive studied non stop all my life and read so many researches that i always think i know best. And unless you show me AMAZING facts that actually DO prove my point all i think is that others don't know shit and need to first read the research ive read so they can understand wtf they are talking about. So lets call my symptom GOE - God Of Earth

Now all we need is to write a presentation, bring it to the board, approve it, then go to PHARMA and talk about tarting a research for medication that can cure it. Once we do that we ll get quit a big [percentage of sales.

In over a year after this you ll be hearing commercials on TV "Do you feel like you are better then others? DO you often step in if you think someone is wrong? Do you seem to notice mistakes in others?" (how many of you can say yes to at least 2 of those??) "You or your family member might be suffering from a new disease, UER and GOE. Ask your doctor about phenomenal CURE for your condition. Ask your doctor about SAVOMANACRE today!"

And then we will be rich

Anyways back to my point. You can put a name to any condition. And unfortunately in this country they have brainwashed people enough to make them feel like something is wrong with them. And put them on the meds to "fix it" Yeh it makes u feel more normal like the rest of the "robots" on tranquilizers. But you just got doped up and lost yourself. Try going to Europe or any other countries this crap doesn't even exist and everybody is happen, nobody is sick, noone has these "DISORDERS" what we do have is people that are different from the masses and WE LOVE THEM ! They are the once that become stars, or magicians, Bands, Scientists, Geniuses.

Final point: Your "disability" is actually your given special power. But you where taught to look at it as a disability because its easier to keep the world in control that way. Break free.


End of my story.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 09:01 PM   #23
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BUT no metter what i write here and no metter how much sence this makes the inly posts that will be getting the "thank you" points are the once that would be saying stuff like "WE ARE ALL SICK ITS A DESEASE BUT THANKS TO DOCTORORS WE HAVE ALL THESE WONDER DRUGS AND WE WILL GET BETTER WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP GOING AND BELIVE!" even thou you probably never heard of a 80 or 90 yo person who was on as many medications as you. Thats because they are dead. But anyways the post i wrote above to you at this level is the same as telling a kid that chocolate wil eventually make their teeth fall out.

All i hope for that maybe a few people who are truly Ready to ESCAPE this vicious circle of meds and pills created by the american government. And i hope those few people who have realised things and where trying to make themselves heal and getter - i hope they stumble apon this and it will give them strength to get out of this. And get healthy and starting loving yourself for the SPECIAL you that was created and stop trying to dope yourself out and become like everyone else.

I really hope this has helped at least a few people. And i hope that to those who are cursing at me right now maybe it gave them a little food of thought and maybe they will take time and do some extra research and get more information and eventually help themselves.

<3

Last edited by TIPSY; 12-11-2010 at 09:05 PM..
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Unread 12-12-2010, 12:33 AM   #24
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Tipsy, I'm not at all trying to be condescending. I am just merely confused by a few of your post and would like to offer some advice, IMHO treating an illness whether it be bipolar, diabetes or even addiction there is nothing wrong with medication. I am aware you believe we are over medicated as a society. If medication helps someone to live a normal life and/or be functional then that is wonderful. I sense there is more going on with your post for you to be so anti medicine. Can you please clarify? And what exactly is your degree in? did you say therapy? I am just confused by your posts.




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Final point: Your "disability" is actually your given special power. But you where taught to look at it as a disability because its easier to keep the world in control that way. Break free.
End of my story.
Tipsy,
Do you view addiction as a "special power" as well? instead of a disease? Also your examples you stated don't really amount to any kind of a real argument about Bipolar disorder. It's real and it really interest me that you've "done a lot of studying" about this disorder....why if you don't have it yourself or are you in denial or afraid to face your disease? In another post you said:


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Originally Posted by TIPSY View Post
I also find the meetings useless it a bunch of people whinnying and complaining and reminding me of how fun the drugs are. How come they MAKE you go to those? I get suboxone prescribed but none of the meetings are mandatory. It does make me a bit crazy too but if i have a glass of wine i feel better. Also therapy might not be helping for a few reasons and one of them is because 95% of therapists are useless and just waste your money. I know that how? Because thats my degree and ive gone to allot of therapist in my lifetime because of OCD, ADD, BIPOLAR and occasional shitzophrenia.

If i were you i would try to get off any psychotropic medications. Also to not be taking all the meds you will eventually need to taper of of subs (Insert: This is a very dangerous statement to make to someone and it is not your call or in your area of expertise to tell someone they will eventually have to get off of a medication) but you are obviously not ready as you fear that you will relapse. What really has helped me to stay away from doing drugs is writing down the HHUGE reasons of why the drugs have influenced my life bad, and people that drugs have made me associate with. And write a list of your life goals.

Then you can look at that list every morning to remind yourself of all the BAD things you ve had. And to remind yourself of all the good things you are aiming for by becoming clean. And whenever you feel like you might relapse again, pull out that pice of paper and look at the reasonings. All while doing that try to find a good therapist who actually advances how you feel rather then waste your money. And as soon s you are ready try to get off subs because they aren't good for our mental state ether. Also i can imagine spending this enormous amount of money on all the stuff they have you do and all the meds they have you take doesn't help your stress levels ether. I have been on mine for 2 month and am more then ready to taper of.

Hope you are doing better and hope my advice was somewhat of a help.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 01:35 AM   #25
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Tipsy, I'm not at all trying to be condescending. I am just merely confused by a few of your post and would like to offer some advice, IMHO treating an illness whether it be bipolar, diabetes or even addiction there is nothing wrong with medication. I am aware you believe we are over medicated as a society. If medication helps someone to live a normal life and/or be functional then that is wonderful. I sense there is more going on with your post for you to be so anti medicine. Can you please clarify? And what exactly is your degree in? did you say therapy? I am just confused by your posts.
:
I have the "Bipolar disorder" and the "adhd" and the "OCD" and my degree is in psychiatry from Oxford. I have said what i had to say just liek i said unless someone has done research and is looking for a wait out of vicious circle my post will be useless. So thats it. I said what i had to say and if it offended someone then simply ignore it and if it made you look into the facts im very glad. Im not here to preach is is as far as ill go.

Enjoy your day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilflower123 View Post
I promise you that Bipolar is not a "made up term"...sorry to correct you but it is actually a chemical imbalance in the brain, the reason I know this is my family and I have experienced this first hand with him....he is manic/depressive and to the extreme of it...Im sure everyone may have some symptoms that are mild or severe based on the person. There are even people that feel "nothing is wrong with them" as was obvious by my father and you could never convience him that he had a disorder, even though it was obvious to us that he did...now dont take me wrong...some have mild symptoms that dont require any treatment. Others are more severe as evident by:
What is Chemical Imbalance of the Brain?

Common chemical imbalances related to mental or emotional health disorders such as stated above include:
  • Reduced availability of neurotransmitters like Serotonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine, GABA and Acetylcholine
  • Increased levels of neurochemicals such as Homocysteine which is very toxic
  • Lower levels of serum Magnesium, Zinc or Potassium
  • Deficient levels of essential vitamins like B6, B9, B12 and Vitamin-C
  • Under supply of key co-factors like amino acids that are used to help transport neurotransmitter percursors into the blood-brain barrier
  • Increased cortisol stress hormone levels.
My father had more the depressive phase than the manic, as evident by he had this "paranoia/schiz type mixed with it to where he thought that the FBI was out to get him" he even had this "wild" look in his eye that you could tell that something wasnt right with him. My father never drank alcohol, never ever used drugs, that how we know that it wasnt drug induced. We had to get a mental warrant on him because he kept saying there wasnt anything wrong with him and it was the hardest thing ever to do, but he thanks us now, but at the time he didnt want to seek help. He was placed on haldol and other meds to help "level" him and help with his depression and live a more normal life. I think the depressive phase is the most dangerous phase because that is the phase where people actually can be a danger to themselves or others such as suicide. I wasn't contradicting you, tipsy, when you said that bipolar is "a made up term to sell more meds" but unless you have experienced it first hand or been around someone with the severe phases of it, it really is a diagonosis and mental condition. Im little manic myself but I tolerate myself at this "hyper" phase, lol...May God bless each and everyone of u....

every symptom is a disbalance and that brings me back to the fact that - why do you want to be a part of a crowed and become a robot when you where given a gift to be different? Look into the hsitory of people who we call geniuses. They are he once who had those "symptoms"

Once again i know what im talking about i have a degree of psychiatry from oxford. And in no way am i trying to change your ways we all have a choice on how to lead our life. The only time i wasted my time typing all this up is in case a person who has been hurt by the countless meds and have realized they lost the gift they where given by life - would like a way out. This post is only for those. If you enjoy your life medicated there is nothing i can do or say to change it, nether wud i want too. some people are not strong enough to be different and the medication is a good way to dope out and be "normal" trust me ive done that too when i got tired of being more interesting then others and decided to blend in. But that was for 3 month of my life. So once again if thats what you want im very glad you found the way to do it. And if the person who wants to go back to being the special "craft of live" decided that its time to learn to appreciate it read this post i hope it helps.

I am actually surprised i didn't get deleted from this site. Usually if you bring up tough issues like this that are extremely controversial even thou they are based on simple facts people in charge try to hide it. This has gained my respect to this bog on a whole different level
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Unread 12-12-2010, 02:31 AM   #26
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Tipsy...or shall I say, Dr. Tipsy...interesting name...

I too, am Bipolar. I went into opiate detox, in June 2009.....IOP -7 days a week, 3 hrs a day for 4 months.....finally, for the first time.....3 months after opiate removal...went to a pdoc....

refused meds........condition worsened....still off opiates, but decided to get on the suboxone.......I was out of control....you know the symptoms of bipolar in flaring form, I am sure...this was me.

Finally, by Dec, that year....I submitted....i agreed to begin med treatment for my bipolar. i have been on and off anti depress all my life.....with no knowledge then of ssri vs. snri...or anything else, for that matter...just took what they gave me....no relief.....self medicated in many illegal ways.....blah blah blah....
typical life of addict, mental patient.

Anyhow, it was horrendous, my "induction" into the world of anti-psychotics. But I was so so sick, I just kept grasping at straws.....they began to change me....not necessarily for the better...but finally a change...a motion....from the hell I was in. How I am alive today, is a miracle in itself.

I HATED these meds....yet, strangely, craved any change they brought about.
Alot of it was negative.....but at least is was a reaction finally, to a life that was so limitted.

It became ugly....6 months after leaving detox and IOP....I went into a complete breakdown.....should have been hospitalized.....i vehemently refused.
Lucky for me, I stumbled upon a pdoc, that took me on....why I don't know....
but saw me 7 days a week...almost creating my own personal IOP within his office (his home)......I would some days, need to be there for hours, as I was unable to leave, drive, or simply just breathe. He would let me sleep in his den....see patients...come back in to me...talk...go....talk....go....for 3 months. His family was there, in the house.
I was referred to as "Bob" .....are you familiar with that great movie with Richard Dreyfuss..."What about Bob".....very funny. Wasn't then, but is now.

Anyhooooow.....as I finally submitted to meds....my life finally began to change......Sometimes it was very ugly...my reactions to some. At one point,my husband took them away from me, thinking they were destroying me.

This was a good lesson for me....cause the meds which I thought I hated so much.....I had to fight for....made me realize how in need I was.

I have been on 15 different meds in 12 months time....alot of tough side effects and mood issues....suicidallllll....panic...like more huge than I had ever suffered....ADD....not able to keep a thought or plan....and figure how to execute it.....would become so jumbled to me...

Yes, you are a man of much knowledge.....so is my pdoc.......35 years in the buisiness.....

I bet you are thinking what a simpleton I am ....as I respond here....merely, me.

But, to sum it up, the point I wish to make, is that meds have finally changed my life. I am currently on 7 different ones.....some days, I choose to take a break from one or the other...as the side effects build......but I definatly know....when I begin to play, and become, what they term "non-compliant" (sunds like some sort of prison term)....my life crumbles apart...in a matter of days....
I HATE that this is what I need .....despise it.......but, swallow my humble pie, and make life better for all those around me.
No, I can not yet say, for me......
still working on that part...
But at least now, I am able to keep up with my full time job, 2 children, and a very alcoholic husband.

I can contend!
That's what meds have done for me.

Hours and hours and hours of therapy...all through out my life....having never entered into the world of anti psychotics before....
but now, here I am...

Alive and for the most part, well.

Thank you so much, for entering in to the conversations here....it is very much a gift to have some one with your background and education, be here.
I hope that you continue to share, what you know, and and keep an open mind to those of us, that are new to the world of mental health diagnosis and treatment options.

I hope you are well...

Just wondering , how have your days been?

All my best,
Linda
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Unread 12-12-2010, 03:25 AM   #27
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its just annoying how long of a hate message you wrote, i got as far as "dr Tipsy" then i got uninterested go drink your pills love, it will calm you down

wait i got a better one! ok, call you Dr tell him how you feel, you can talk for 4:30 minutes and he will tell you what issue we are having and will prescribe you a perfect pill for that ahahahahaAHAHA
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:55 AM   #28
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Tipsy,
She wasn't being hateful to you if you read it. If you have a degree in psych, you should be more compassionate.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:48 AM   #29
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We can be mad at Doctor's and Scientist's all we want but if it weren't for some of these drugs on the market.. people would be dying or suffering so much more. The doctor's aren't shoving these pills down your throat. It's always up to you in the end. Obviously.

A lot of people are over-medicated and misdiagnosed. The world isn't perfect... get over it.

And if anyone's opinion or statements don't matter then why do you ask for them?

I hope you stick around Tipsy but be a little open-minded. You don't have to accept the things we say but you don't have to bash them.

Like james said, be a little more compassionate. We aren't hateful people here and I hope you see that.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:42 PM   #30
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i will refrain from what my 16 yr old me wishes to say to you...
I hope to God....all you do is research in the Mental Health field.

you do not belong with patients.

I am guessing-duh, you have chosen not to medicate yourself.

To each his own....and that should be honored--not condemned.

Please, be careful to others here......it is very very dangerous, the venom you are spouting....and to somebody more fragile than i.....it could cause serious damage.

Calm down....maybe listen......count to ten, before you respond.

Maybe you have some helpful advice.....and we would love that.....
you have much education behind you.....it's what is before you, that concerns me.

Thank you for your input.
Linda
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:15 PM   #31
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People can say what they want, and give their opinion until they're blue in the face. We can't control others, we can only control outself. It's ok to have an opinion, and it's ok for others not to agree. I think it's perfectly normal to try and "educate" people of the things you believe to try and help understand. I think there's not such thing as knowing "too much" but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with what you have to say. We are all old enough to make our own decisions and think our own thoughts. I have found it helpful, that if you don't like someone's opinion, and they keep trying to prove their point, you move on and let it be. If you don't learn to just accept the fact that there are some people in this world who want to educate others of what they think, yet are not open minded enough to allow others to try and educate them on what they believe, then it becomes a waste of time. No one is an "expert" on anything IMO, and that means that they can read and research and learn all they want, find all the things that support their idea, and share it with everyone else, but that doesn't mean that if someone doesn't believe what they believe, then they are wrong! I also don't think that someone has to the right to sit and continue to push their beliefs on someone else and make them out to look like idiots just because they don't believe.

With that said, we have the choice of allowing someone to get under your skin and get you all wound up and pissed off, or to let it go, continue to live your life, and believe your on beliefs! Only you as an individual can make that choice.

I believe I am bipolar, I chose to listen to my doctor and stick to the treatment plan we've made for me and that has thus far been working. I don't care who thinks I''m wrong, who thinks I'm "doped up" on pills. In these past 10 months since starting on Sub and finding the right dose of other meds that help me overcome the diseases I suffer from, I feel better then ever before. I am happier in life, I am able to be the mother my daughter needs, and the partner to the person I love better then before. If what I am doing is working for me, then I could care less about what others say, this is my life, only I can control it, and only I live it. Period!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:19 PM   #32
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I doubt this person has a degree in anything. This person's posts in general (grammar, social skills, negative) shows nothing to me but a person behind a computer looking for fun.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:39 PM   #33
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I'm sure your right MissSurvivor, which is just one more reason to let it be and continue giving and getting help from those who are actually open minded and want help, not to try and belittle people.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:58 PM   #34
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Tig....
As I was writing....I knew I was wrong....wrong to react.
As you said...the "under the skin" stuff....that is what I want
to move beyond in my life...thought I did 20 yrs ago....jsut sometimes
appears...pops in...

I am greatly comforted by my comrades here....it is you guys I trust most...and will give thought to responses.....I can see...I get it...when one is true, here, at addiction survivors. That is the name of the game. Sometimes an intruder may appear and rattle things up.......or perhaps, I need to give merritt to such person, and reach out....the old "kill them with kindness" thing, that I teach my children, and I work so hard to abide by...when challenged with someone that upsets me...rattles me....makes me feel like resorting to immature fighting tactics....respond by "killing with kindness".
Forgot myself for a moment.

Yes, this sent me into one of my "tailspins"...even had to call pdoc....doubting everything about myself........I can not allow this.

I thank you guys, for your quick responses.....to such a dangerous (for me anyway) discussion......it was you guys, that leveled me.

Yes, I need to re-evaluate my reaction---my response. Not his.
It is more important to me, how I behave, than someone else's behavior....selfish, maybe....
but that's how I keep my ducks in a row.

I can't tell you, how comforting and valuable the responses were to me.....i am a very poor judge ......you guys, brought me to a more peaceful spot.....I was really angry.
Silly me.
What Miss Survivor said, may or may not be true whether or not this fellow even had the "clout" he touted.....but it did make me realize, that I need not be so vulnerable....so soft.........so spongy.....
I need to learn that I do have a mind...with thoughts and feelings that are real, and are strong......I never feel this of myself.

this whole thing has been so valuable.

What brought me into absolute total depression and panic (this is just what happens to me, no matter---gets real bad---I hurt myself)...anyhow.....now, by just having some proper insight and helpful, kind words......I am able to move ahead.....

That is , unfortunatly, how soft I am....how fragile......how much of a noodle, mashed potato of a brain, I am.

I am swayed easily....and hate it....i feel as if i have no backbone.....
but each event...each scenario...each encounter...that I get the chance to work through, I become stronger.

Oh God, I hear myself, I am a drama queen....but that is what I am....and must contend with....and learn how to manage her....

Thanks to all of you....
I am always heard here....
Always.

Overwhelmed with gratitude now.
that is good.

Linda
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Unread 12-12-2010, 10:34 PM   #35
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Linda~
I think we all sometimes allow others to get to us. It's easier to "fight back" and prove we're right, then to take a step back to assess the situation, calm down, and walk away. As I read the posts and the responses, I myself got annoyed and wanted to spout off my thoughts about the stuff being said. But then I realized that there are some people in this world who are so set in their own opinions and beliefs, that it's almost a waste of time to try and respond in any way, shape, or form. We have to pick and chose our battles. And just because someone choses to push their opinions on someone doesn't mean that they are right, or we have to believe!

You are who you are Linda, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all have our flaws, our problems, our own issues, but that makes us who we are. We handle our lives the way we see fit, and it doesn't matter in the end what the people from the outside looking in thing. It's completely understandable, the original reaction you had. You felt a need to defend yourself and your belief's, and that is normal. We are everyday, continuing to change the people we were into the people we are now becoming. And it's times like these when we are able to realize some of the things we still have to work on.

This site is a great one, with lots of support. There will always be people who come and try to preach their opinion and point fingers at everyone they think are living their life wrong. That doesn't mean you have to listen or agree. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and some are more dead set in what they believe that they aren't happy until they've effected everyone with what they have to say. I am sure they have a lot to offer, but they have to get past their way of thinking and realize that people don't have to see eye to eye with them all the time. And we also have to realize that just like us, many people out there are still trying to "fix" their life. Still trying get rid of those addictive behaviors and learn a new way of life. We all know that isn't always the easiest thing to do! We have to be patient with others, and remember that we have the option to turn the other cheek, look away, press ignore. Don't let others effect you in such a negative way! Don't allow someone to make such an impact on your recovery!

Stay strong, continue living your life the way you feel right, and remember that you have many people here who know and care about you. You take what you need from this site, and leave the rest for someone else! Take care!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 10:46 PM   #36
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Linda,
I never really posted to you much because I didn't have the answers you were asking for but I do want to tell you I think you're an amazing person. You've been through so much and I think a lot of people would have said screw it and continue a downward spiral. I admire how strong you are.

There will always be people stopping by and sometimes what they say might get under our skin. We just have to realize it's their opinion and if they want to offend us we'll just have to ignore it. If we know we're doing the best we can for ourselves then it doesn't matter. I admit, I've flown off the handle here a few times but I'm learning.

Tlg, your posts are amazing here too. I love spending time on here and reading the support you give to others. As many other members here do too. This is an amazing site. I hope to see Linda post here often as well.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 11:31 PM   #37
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Hi guys.......
I am so so touched...feel so heard and cared for......
yeah----go figure, on-line, these feelings can be had.

I have been here now, for about a year and a half....and I have
come to realize who the folks are, that are ones to aspire to ....who to listen to.

Of course....both of you, have been people that I have always admired.

I just can't express, the gratitude...the meaning...of what it is, to have people behind me, that encourage and support what I feel is "unmanageable".....and help me turn it the other way.....

simple me, I have another support community (online) that is also very dear to me...

It's hard to "switch gears" sometimes......the other one is "beeperspeepers@googlegroups.com" ......a bipolar support group.....very small....but very close knit.....

But there is something so much greater here.....a deeper sincerity....., unfortunatly, bipolars are moody and can not always be there for each other as needed....we just understand this of each other...but it helps to see others, as I am.

But here.....this is solid....SOLID.
My healthy place.

This is where my growth can take place...the other place.....well, let me say....we just bitch.....but we do care about each other.

I spend alot of time...too much...on this computer.....I have got very attached to my communities here.....

I just can't thank you all enough....for always answering...always there....

Way beyond what any other online community can offer...
This place is so special.

And just to let you know, I do have lots of therapy and pdoc support...live....and family......not too good with the "friend" thing....
but yes, I live life.

Wow!
I live life!!!!!
Never thought I would smile with this sentence..

Good night everyone...thanks for helping me work through this.

All my best,
linda
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Unread 12-13-2010, 12:07 AM   #38
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May I ask tipsy, why are you on suboxone?? You say u have been on them for 2mts now and are more than ready to taper off...Did you have an addiction to opiates? Comin from someone so "anti-medical", Im just curious as to WHY you are taking the suboxone????
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Unread 12-13-2010, 12:48 AM   #39
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Im not trying to sound mean, but, I must say that for someone with a degree from oxford in ANY SPECIALITY will not begin sentences with "AND" or have as many misspelled words as above, and use such improper grammer. I don't doubt you may have done research but the degree, not so sure about. It is hard to understand disorders because each and everyone of us are so different, but unless you have experienced them first hand with yourself or a family member than its easy to say, as she said, that it doesn't exist. I, for 1, know that they do exist, and that there are medications for specific disorders that may not necessiarly fix someones condition but it makes the symptoms more tolerable to help you live a "more normal" life....and lindamine, I was so touched by your story up there and I do understand you because we experienced this with my father and its a horrible thing to experience, and Im glad to hear that you are doing better, and I hope that you continue to get better. I was just curious as to why Ms tipsy is on suboxone for 2mts now?? Seriously, Im not trying to be mean, just curious, because her statements are so "anti-medicinal"- not sure if thats a word or not, lol....but she/he appears so "against medications", but yet is on suboxone themselves, therefore she must have had some sort of addiction to opiates, right? Ms Tipsy these forum are kinda like being at NA meetings, addicts helping each other and sharing in our recovery with each other. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion but sometimes it sounds kinda harsh and we are not your enemies here, we are all just trying to help each other, as the name of the website is "addiction survivors"- we are 1 addict helping another (maybe not all are addicts but you know what I mean)...May God richly bless each and everyone of you, Tee
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Unread 12-13-2010, 10:09 AM   #40
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Anyone with a degree in anything at all would surely have had to write papers of some sort, right? This person may have finished high school, and may have done some reading, but that's probably about it.

Best,
J
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Unread 12-19-2010, 06:33 AM   #41
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I also am confused as to why he is so anti-medicine......not only why was he on Suboxone......but why was he taking whatever his DOC was?????? I thought we're suppose to accept our "special talent"? Why did you ever begin drugs then? I find it so contradicting to be anti-bipolar meds, but its okay that you had to take drugs to deal with reality? then suboxone too? you are no better than the rest of us tipsy.
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Unread 12-19-2010, 10:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieCat View Post
Hello everyone. I have been on Suboxone for almost 4 months (this time around), was on it for 7 months previously. I am absolutely miserable! I am aggitated all the time! I doesn't matter what dose I take, more or less, I am a walking time-bomb. I feel like I cannot get any satisfaction out of anything. It's like having sex, about to finish, and being un-able to (forgive me if this is vulgar, the only metaphore I could think of), that frustrated feeling. I feel that way ALL THE TIME! I want to SCREAM! **I have no appetite. I've lost ten or fifeteen pounds, food is repulsive to me. **I sleep too much, though, the first time I was on Sub, I slept for 20 hours a day. **Don't have a period. **Have terrible tingling/numbness/pain in my hands, feet, face, legs. I wake up with my arm or leg asleep and I can't even move it. When I get up I feel stiff and my joints hurt (I'm only 26), feel swollen. I don't WANT to get up, I feel so awful. **I smoke like a chimney now, 2 packs a day!!! **Instead of taking one medication (OC), I now have to take eleven, just to get out of bed and bathe myself and go to work. **I am so depressed. I don't see the point in this anymore.
I relapsed once, obviously. I failed a drug test, my doctor dropped me. He took me back a few months later after I nearly died trying to WD cold turkey at home. But he doesn't take me very seriously, he doesn't like me, doesn't listen to me anymore. This seems to be doing me far more harm than anything else I've done. I'm ready to throw in the towel. I was switched from Suboxone to Subutex, which helped some, I don't get headaches any more. I am bipolar as well, taking meds for that.Though the only thing that ever seemed to stablize me was the OC, as long as I had it. Someone please help!
Hi Katiecat, we have a lot in common. First of all, I am also 26. My periods are so irregular it drives me nuts, although when I was on heroin I would NEVER have on at all, since I have been on sub for the past 5 months I have had one period. This is also my second time around on sub, (I was on it two years ago and didn't take it seriously.)
The tingling, numbness and pain in my hands and feet, ME TOO. The same with waking up and my hand or foot being so asleep that I can't move it for a long time... although I think my symptoms have something to do with my IV drug use. I have no more veins anymore therefore less circulation. Did you use needles too?
My smoking has increased way more also. Which is crazy, not really sure why...
I have been depressed since I was around 14 that is when I first realized it. I now take effexor, it works for me.
Hey write me back I wouldn't mind a sub friend. Hope you are doing well, take care.
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