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Unread 02-28-2015, 07:21 AM   #1
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Default In the process of tapering off

Hi everyone I am new to this thread but wanted to say thanks for all the info here. I too am in the process of getting off subs, and you are all amazing. Here is what I have been doing (since I am a sissy)
I was on 8mg for about 4 years. Sick of paying the money, not to mention feeling muted, unlike myself, plus putting on yes about 30lbs on my 5'2 frame. I was almost always tiny and this infuriated me. anyhow the jumps from 8 to 4 to 2 were simple. Even to 1 wasn't bad.
From 1mg I stayed for 2 weeks then to .5. Then the sneezing and insomnia. I told myself it was allergies and I had so much energy from the exercise program I started (which I feel is key) plus as addicts why not lie to ourselves in a good way once in awhile?
After I felt stable about 1.5 weeks went to .25 and once a day dosing. Felt okay just sneezing was sleeping much better due to 300mg neurontin, and melatonin at bedtime. Benadryl made it worse for me.
About a week after that I am currently on day 2 of .12mg yes I am a wuss Planning on jumping or skipping days in about a week. I am armed with Clonidine if needed, neurontin, and a couple of ultram which I don't plan to use since they never worked for me anyhow. Motrin works better.
I just wanted to post here since my boyfriend is so sick of hearing me talk about it but I think I am doing pretty good for the past 2 months. Oh yes I have already lost 15lbs. That's suboxone for making me a porker but I am fighting back. I have been a veggie since age 12 and I am an registered nurse but not working right now so what better time to better myself!! Any comments appreciated just moved to a new town and besides church I don't get to interact with too many people. Thanks for reading.
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Unread 02-28-2015, 07:39 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi GirlGettingOffSubs, welcome. Sounds like you're doing a great job with your taper. In retrospect, that 8mg was probably way too high of a dose for you and that's why you felt like you did. With the ceiling effect of the bupe, taking anything more than you need can just exacerbate side effects and cause people to feel lethargic and even depressed. I wish more doctors would realize that and not keep their patients on doses higher than they need. But I digress.

I just posted to Kristy (new here also - she just jumped from .125 mg) to reiterate the benefits of exercise. Here's her thread:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=29863

If you can do anything - just walking around the block to start - even if you don't feel like it, it has helped so many here in the process of tapering and post taper.

You're doing a fabulous job! And you're not a wuss. Everyone tapers differently and, in my opinion, that's how it should be done - with whatever is comfortable for the individual.

Glad you found us.

Nancy
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Unread 02-28-2015, 09:17 AM   #3
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Thanks so much replying so soon! How amazing it means a lot. . My outside exercise consists of chasing my dog around bc it's in the negatives here with windchill in northern Pennsylvania. However i have been doing a workout video every day (minus Sundays to rest) and I know how important the endorphins are and I think its a huge help. Not to mention rediscovering all the things I used to love, especially music.
I am going to read the post you linked right now thank you so much. Take care and have a blessed weekend!!
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Unread 03-01-2015, 04:08 AM   #4
Sam Bailey
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Hey GirlGettingOffSubs,

Welcome to the Forum/Site. It's a good joint, this place. Be as active as you need to be, in receiving support and in giving it.

I found that in-person support was also hugely beneficial. These days, there're lots of places for in-person support, places where hugs or handshakes are given freely---and where self-serving judgment is not.

For me, AA/NA has been the Support Group that's worked best. In addition, that is, to some powerfully good support from right here, on AS. Just a little sumthing to think about.

I gave away so many years to opiate use and active addiction...so glad, so thankful that I don't have to live that away any longer.

And you? You're just about there too!

Best to you.

sam b
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Unread 03-01-2015, 08:17 AM   #5
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Sam, I accidentally replied to you under soul searcher. I am all over the place as usual thanks for the reply.
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Unread 03-01-2015, 08:26 AM   #6
NancyB
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Hi Angie, I'm right there with you as far as the weather - I'm in Connecticut and we're getting 6" or more of that horrid snow starting this afternoon. Are you getting any of this storm? It's hard to keep track of the direction the storms are coming, there are so many. Ugh. It's great that you're doing the video 6 times a week. As you know, listening to music will help with endorphins too. Do you play an instrument at all?

Stay warm!

Nancy
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Unread 03-01-2015, 09:06 AM   #7
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Yikes! I was just out shoveling haha. We are getting 2-4 but last time they said that we got 8. I heard once that the only job you can do wrong every day and keep your job is the weatherman. Haha I don't mean that to be mean just funny. Connecticut must be having a worse winter than pa since you are more
northern. To answer your question, my parents bought me a flute when I was 7 which I couldn't play so I figured I would exchange talent for noise with a trombone in middle school then took guitar lessons for years but sold the electric one for drugs go figure but I have the acoustic but alas I have these fake nails which prevent me from playing. I should get them shorter so I could try again. Take care stay warm and off to church for me before it gets too bad!!! Have a blessed day! Gratitude is everything and I am very grateful for you.
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Unread 03-01-2015, 02:59 PM   #8
Eliza12
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Hi Angie,

Glad you are here and doing well with your taper. I loved this: "I told myself it was allergies and I had so much energy from the exercise program I started (which I feel is key) plus as addicts why not lie to ourselves in a good way once in awhile?" So true! You have a great attitude and I'm sure you will be fine when you jump.

Best,
Elizabeth
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Unread 03-01-2015, 05:05 PM   #9
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Elizabeth- thanks for the kind words I got a kick out of it. I appreciate the support have been at .125 for 4 days now I think but i am not sure when to start skipping days, maybe after a week to stabilize like i did in the past. I am in a hurry but not too much of one the longer my levels drop in my blood I think the withdrawals (if any-wishful thinking I know hah) will be lessened comsiderably. I keep reading low and slow is the way to go so that's kind of what I am doing. Thanks for the input and any advice is always welcome. Off to walk the dog in the snow!!! Hope you are well and thanks again. Angie
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Unread 03-01-2015, 08:42 PM   #10
NancyB
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Hi Angie, I haven't had to shovel yet. Have a couple of inches so far and it's still snowing. I totally agree that being a weatherman is a good gig! You just have to say, 'oh, the front moved the wrong way' and you're ok.

The age old conflict, nails or guitar playing! lol

I think if you can stay at .125 for another three days, that might be a good option, since waiting a week has worked so far.

Hope it stopped snowing for you!

Nancy
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Unread 03-02-2015, 06:53 AM   #11
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Good morning here! Yes I did shovel haha but luckily it wasn't too bad. More endorphins. I have a 12 year old bichon Pomeranian mix (looks like neither breed must be the milkman's ha) but he is 35lbs and goes down steps okay but I have to carry him up so I am terrified of falling with him so I am pretty ocd about shoveling. After boyfriend pushed my car out that was stuck I got it into the garage so thats good. My brother is 4 hours away which is a bummer but he knows when I come so does the dog!!
How much snow did you end up getting? It's bikini weather today hi 36, then tonight low 7. At least no negatives. What happened to global warming? Can we get some out here! Good idea on the dosage that's my plan. Thanks for all the help you are an angel. Oh when I worked as a telemarketer in the halfway house and I'd call people (can't believe it was 10 years ago wow) I'd say my name is Angie and everyone always said "Nancy" haha ok there's my morning ramble. Starting new Jillian michaels routine today w her and sub decreases I now lost 16 lbs in a month! Hooray feeling better than ever! Have a beautiful day.
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Unread 03-02-2015, 08:26 AM   #12
NancyB
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Hi Angie, wasn't too bad here either. Maybe about 4-ish? I'll be out shoveling soon so I'll know for sure. hahaha yes! I'll get the lawn chair out this afternoon and get some sun. This is crazy weather. Yup, global warming. February was the coldest month since they started keeping track of stuff like that...

That's funny about people hearing Angie as Nancy! Way to go with the 16 lb loss! I'm glad you're feeling so well! Don't forget your sunscreen when you go out to sunbathe.

Nancy
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Unread 03-02-2015, 09:30 AM   #13
MattC42286
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Hi girlgettingoffsubs. Great story! Sounds like you have all the motivation you need! Just keep doing what you are doing and you will hit your goal soon. Thanks for posting! Matt
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Unread 03-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #14
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy, went to shovel this morning and fell right down when a car passed by only hurting my ego haha. Clutzy me. Matt thanks for adding. Time for a nap listening to Leonard Cohen. I love him. Take care all and thanks for being here for me. It means a lot.
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Unread 03-02-2015, 02:27 PM   #15
Eliza12
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Hi Angie,

That's funny about falling down. Glad you didn't get hurt. Whenever I trip or fall, I'm more concerned about who saw it than if I got hurt :-). Hey, global warming is alive and well on the West Coast - we're all going to have to move to your side of the country when we run out of water!

You will be just fine when you jump - you have a great attitude and are getting exercise, and you are down to a very low dose. Skipping days will help even more. Congrats on the weight loss!

Best,
Elizabeth
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Unread 03-02-2015, 05:07 PM   #16
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliza12 View Post
Hi Angie,

That's funny about falling down. Glad you didn't get hurt. Whenever I trip or fall, I'm more concerned about who saw it than if I got hurt :-). Hey, global warming is alive and well on the West Coast - we're all going to have to move to your side of the country when we run out of water!

You will be just fine when you jump - you have a great attitude and are getting exercise, and you are down to a very low dose. Skipping days will help even more. Congrats on the weight loss!

Best,
Elizabeth
Elizabeth went out to shovel again and luckily stayed on my own two feet haha. Took the dog for a ride which he loves and got a little nap which was nice. If the ice would melt I wouid be ecstatic. Anyhow thanks for replying and for some allergy sneezes I am doing great thanks to the wonderful folks on this site. Take care and thanks for being there for me.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 06:36 AM   #17
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Oh these darn allergies! At least no goosebumps or anything, I got my serum (RNs can allergy inject themselves rather than wait in an office, oh the perks. Dust dust and dust which is always worse in winter. 6 sneezes on this post (7) but it doesn't feel bad. Got the humidifier working hope that helps. Thinking of maybe skipping or waiting longer today I actually can't interpret my writing on my calendar. I always got made fun of at my old job for sloppy handwriting. And I got a bachelors in marketing previously high on heroin. Think what I can do clean!! Haha! I fall into the so smart I am dumb category (joking not putting myself down). Best to all today.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 07:01 AM   #18
NancyB
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Hi Angie, if you feel ready, then think waiting as long as you can today before taking your bupe. Who knows, it might be tomorrow when you'll need to take it. That's the beauty, you can try and see what works best. Some people have increased the time in between doses and ended up skipping days because when it got too close to bedtime to take it. (A lot of people have sleep disruptions taking it too late in the day.)

No falling incidents for me yesterday while shoveling - almost though, there was a patch of ice under the snow, but I managed to stay upright. We got about 5" but it was really light, so not so bad. Relatively speaking. Who knows what will happen with this next storm today. What are they saying for you? We're supposed to get around 3" of snow, then sleet, then rain and then 45. Those are the days you have to be careful just walking out the door!

Hope that takes care of your allergies. And, yes, just wait to see what you can do next!

Be careful out there!

Nancy
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Unread 03-03-2015, 07:16 AM   #19
GirlGettingOffSubs
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My dear Nancy,
Well the dog got up at 3am to go out and he went back to bed I did not haha. Yes I totally relate about the ice under the snow. That's what got me. My legs are sore but it's from the new workout video. I love it but since I don't own a kettleball yet I am fearful I will throw my dumbbell right into the television (boyfriend wants new one anyhow but this is not the time haha). It's mixed for the new storm I have to make a 2 hr drive home for appts and lunch with a friend and thyroid bloodwork and this always happens!! Hopefully it will be ok. My car is essentially made of tin foil (was my moms I made fun of her for it always) then she died of cancer in 2009 and guess what I inherited? She is up there laughing I am sure but she could have gotten the 4wd option but she didn't know in a few years I'd essentially be living in Alaska haha. The sun is starting to peek through which is nice I hope Kristy is ok she hasn't posted obsessively like I do but I don't have kids or job so time is more my friend. Let's pray for this one to just blow over I hate driving far in the snow and there's a always accidents on I-80. Thanks again for always being here for me.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 07:18 AM   #20
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Ps I write how I talk which is one long run on sentence. I should know better but my brain goes faster than my fingers. Sorry if it's hard to read.
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Unread 03-03-2015, 03:30 PM   #21
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
I feelimg quite well armed with my arsenal of supplements etc. unfortunately just woke up from another nap which makes me hope I am not getting on 3rd shift routine I did for 4 years. My puppers is eating, my legs are sore (in a good way Jillian michaels) just hope I can make it home tomorrow to central pa. If I make it through this day I will dose tomorrow then 2 days etc. and go from there. Hope you are well and getting the light dusting we have so far. Let's keep it that way! As if we had that power. Haha
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Unread 03-04-2015, 07:06 AM   #22
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Hi Nancy,
I skipped a day but took 1 50mg ultam in am. And and bed. I feel great but kinda freaked out bc these may be too strong? I am in no way hi but all sneezes gone anyhow going to dose today since I have 2 hr drive to gyne of all places then try to skip 2 days. She knows some of my history but I don't know if I should be honest w her about maybe trazodone for sleep. Or a pillow over my boyfriends face he needs a cpap be broke bis nose in motorcycle accident then had survey on it. Ugh. What used to be cute is now bugging the you know what out of me haha. Looks like rain here early then snow so if I get a move on and some oil in my car I should be good! Any plans for you today?
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Unread 03-04-2015, 07:57 AM   #23
NancyB
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Hi Angie, I'm so sorry to hear you lost your mom. We got a mess. First snow and now it's still raining. Not that hard, but rain nonetheless which will make the snow feel like cement. Great. Hopefully you won't have any problems with your drive today. This is just crazy - one storm after another.

Be careful with the ultram. Even though it's not officially an opiate, there are and have been people here who ended up on Suboxone because of becoming addicted to it. And also, taking the Suboxone after taking ultram could cause precipitated withdrawals. People who took bupe for ultram addiction waited until they were in withdrawals to start it. Then there are some that took it along with bupe with no problems. It seems like it depends on the individual - just wanted to let you know what's happened with others just in case.

I think it's up to you whether or not to tell your doctor. You're almost off, so it's not like you just started it and will be taking it for a while. You can always tell her it's either trazodone or jail time for smothering your boyfriend.

I'll be moving some slush today and working from home. Which is good so I don't have to be anywhere.

Have a safe drive!!!

Nancy
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Unread 03-04-2015, 08:56 AM   #24
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Yes thanks for ultram info. May stick to the Clonidine bc I know it works and is safer. I hear you about the cement snow we have lf too,
I had to stomp a path for my dog who was all over the place in/on it. Reminded me of Bambi. Anyhow the trip is off I am going to reschedule
It. No need to risk my life for the gyne haha. I appreciate all the advice and always hearing from you in the mornings. Already did my workout it was awesome. Be safe if you go anywhere another day of cabin fever here but I never get bored. I am blessed that way. Thanks about my mom I lost dad in 2001 it was odd to go to courthouse and sign orphan papers in my late 20s. At least I have my bro who had electrical heart attack at 37 but he's fine no meds or anything. I've been checked and my ticker good thanks goodness. Ok talk to you soon ! Be safe!
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Unread 03-05-2015, 07:25 AM   #25
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Good morning waiting for the sun to come up to exercise. I feel pretty crummy but mostly mentaly I think, got in big fight w boyfriend yesterday and although I even got earplugs I still ended up on couch most of the night. Either I dreamnt it or he did come out and "tuck me in" but I hope it wasn't a dream. I have been having crazy dreams lately.


Anyhow low tonight here is 0! Yay! Not! How's things up in CT?
Angie
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Unread 03-05-2015, 07:48 AM   #26
NancyB
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Hi Angie, I'm sorry about your dad too. That's so soon to have lost both parents. I'm glad your brother is ok. Except for his dancing injury you mentioned in Elizabeth's thread.

A lot of people have talked about crazy dreams at the end of tapers and after. As long as they're crazy in a good way though. Sorry you had a fight with the BF. That would be nice if he really did tuck you in last night. But if he didn't, I'll pack up the snakes and send them FedEx to you. They're not very scary or intimidating though. They're just cute little old garter snakes. But if he's really afraid of snakes, it might work. I hope you two work things out so you'll feel better. Sometimes feeling mentally crummy is worse than physically crummy - I think anyways.

Good idea cancelling yesterday. It wasn't too bad around here, but they still had school delays because everything turned to slush. They said there were traffic delays because of ice and all of that. Then there's my driveway. That was my Jillian Michaels workout for the day - shoveling slush. hahaha What can you do, right? I'm just waiting for Sunday when we're supposedly going to start a few 40 degree days.

Good idea sticking tho just the Clonidine - tramadol seems kind of scary anyways with the chance of seizures even at therapeutic doses. Do you think you might try skipping today or extending the time or none of the above?

I hope you have a better rest of your day.

Nancy
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Unread 03-05-2015, 08:39 AM   #27
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
uuuuuug I hate today already! Yes I am skipping but that's not the problem. First is the dog fell on ice down the steps. Then I fell with him up the steps (we are ok just scraped hand and ego) then my boyfriend saw us fall refuses to help and as gross as this is puppers gets tummy troubles from boyfriend feeding him junk, and he needs his bum wiped sometimes (little old man) 12x7=84, and boyfriend refused, said you bath him. Jerk. I need those snakes. I am not perfect by any means but he is trying to sabatoge me bc he took the Clonidine out of my purse and locked it in his safe, why? Ugh I am so mad. At least workout was good.
Do you guys get stink bugs up there? I am as scared of those as he is of snakes. Luckily only found 4 since we moved here in October and half were dead already.
Well off to give a bum bath ugh. Hope you have a great day. Thanks for being here for me.
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Unread 03-06-2015, 07:17 AM   #28
NancyB
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Hi Angie, I hope your day got better yesterday. That was not a good start. I don't mean on getting too personal, but your BF really isn't being nice or supportive of you. Does he want you to fail for some reason or is this an extension of the fight you guys had. It just seems rather mean spirited to not help you when you fell and plain mean when he took your clonidine.

I had to look up what a stinkbug is. I guess they are in CT, but either I haven't seen one or did and didn't know it was one - outside that is. I haven't seen anything like that in the house and I hope I don't!

Did you get snow yesterday? Nothing here, but the southeastern part of the state got a bunch though.

Any plans for the day besides going to Petco for a snake?

Nancy
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Unread 03-06-2015, 09:18 AM   #29
GirlGettingOffSubs
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My dear Nancy,
Today is a much better day. We both had bad insomnia last night (I kept tapping him when he was snoring) and I forgot that he had neurontin (I know I shouldn't take his meds but bc I am an RN I think I am a doctor and can diagnose and treat myself) and he gave me some at 3am and I fell asleep and woke up feeling awesome (my gaba must be lacking!)

I did my workout (and allergy shot to fight my sneezing which seems better today is day 2 of skipping-if I feel this good tomorrow i may actually jump-but one day at a time)

No snow for us thank goodness and no one fell on our morning walk which is a big bonus. 👏💪. I think its hilarious you didnt know what a stink bug was! I hate those little devils. One time years ago when I lived by myself one kept flying haphazardly around my light above my bed and it was smacking off the light and sounded like metal hitting and I think it landed on my bed and I was traumatized for life haha.


Wow I am rambling. I can't believe we spring forward this weekend! Hooray! Hope, spring may come. it was -5 windchill on our walk this morning but it oddly felt good.

I have found weird solace in watching surfing documentaries lately too ( way too much free time should be cleaning instead of indenting the couch cushion.) I am terrified to go in the ocean even though we go to myrtle beach every summer-but there is something calming in the ocean on tv haha I am looking everywhere for endorphins.

No snakes today. Boyfriend being better-but petco and pet smart are right down the road! I sound like a madwoman today its going to take you all day to read this so I will stop now. But today I am a clean madwoman which is awesome. Thanks for being there. Take care Nancy and have a great day! You are amazing.!!!!☺️😊😀
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Unread 03-06-2015, 09:24 AM   #30
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Ps- about the bf-we fight like cats and dogs sometimes in our codependent relationship which I know needs work and I think it will improve when I am not muted by the suboxone-our relationship was better in the beginning 4 years ago when I was truely clean and working a program. He was too but I was so gung ho on AA, I felt great. So we will see what happens. I know I need a support group out here. My brother and best friend dont even know I was on suboxone I was ashamed. Ok talk to you soon! Angie
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Unread 03-07-2015, 07:14 AM   #31
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Good morning Nancy!
I got a full 8 hours sleep! I feel great, I woke up and came out to the kitchen and there was some sign of light outside! It wasn't dark which was amazing. I got up once to pee and empty dishwasher and fell right back asleep.

Did I read earlier in a post somewhere you use e-cigs? I use them and am freaking out bc I need more juice and my favorite is at home, and I am here until Tuesday. Not familiar with the stores up here.

My bf took care of my car yesterday, we got out of house to go get oil etc. puppers was thrilled. I was too it's been days since I left, i Have been in hermit mode, but I am okay with that. It was wild to see the shining fields of ice along the highway. Like living in the middle of a huge skating rink.

I actually dreamed about going grocery shopping today and that's the plan later. No crazy dreams last night just dreaming of my actually grocery list which is odd for me bc I have quite the imagination.

So today is day 3 and I don't see the point in redosing. I feel fine right now, and don't see the point. I'd be kinda happy to say I've given them up during lent but not sure if it counts since Its not like ice cream that I love (though sweet tooth much less already) since I don't really want to be on subs anyhow its not something I much ever liked.

Anyhow any weekend plans for you? I just saw windchill of -5 now yuck but a high of 40? Time for a suntan, and I already took my vitamin d haha

Well I know you are very active w others too so I won't take up too much of your time. But I am not going anywhere this forum will be stuck w me for a long time. I believe in keeping track of my journey and helping others bc I know I am not out of the woods yet, but if I am sleeping great at least a few nights a week, I can't be too far off. I think the .125 was the way to go being so low. It took away a lot of the fear.

Took the l-tyrosine this morning so it's time to get wound up! I didn't take it for a few days bc I think it got me too amped up. Guess we shall see today. I only take 500 i have seen in posts say up to 2000/day, I'd feel like I was on crack! And I only ever did that once and it didn't work, I was a better amphetamine/methhead for a short period (dealer died this past year, prob a combo big into Special K too) sad. And to think we met him in NA years back. Ugh.

Well off to jump around and swing my hand weights not into the tv! Take gentle care hope some of our ice melts this weekend.

Hugs,
Angie
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Unread 03-07-2015, 08:34 AM   #32
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Hi Angie, wow, that's fabulous a whole 8 hours of sleep. After changing the clocks tonight, it will just be getting be light around now. I like it staying light out later, but right now with all this snow on the ground it really doesn't matter. It's not like you can out and do something in the yard.

Both Elizabeth and Deanna use e-cigs. I quit smoking a few years ago. I did try e-cigs before I quit, but found I used that more than I smoked - I never smoked inside my house. But with the e-cigs I could. So I gave it to a friend.

I'm glad your bf was nice yesterday. Hope he stays that way for a while. Have you looked to see if there are any AA or NA meetings near you? I don't think you should be ashamed that you took Suboxone. What was the alternative - to risk overdose? If you could have stopped on your own, you would have. Where I think people get confused is that taking a medication as prescribed isn't addiction. Addiction is uncontrollable, compulsive behavior despite negative consequences. Bupe just stops the cravings and withdrawals so people can work on their recovery unencumbered by them. One of the big problems, in my opinion, is that too many doctors just prescribe like it's aspirin - bupe isn't 'take two and call me in the morning'. It should be tailored to each person. I don't think you should have been taking 8mg for 4years. You may have needed 8mg at the beginning, but as time went on, you likely needed less and less and that's why you didn't have much of a problem going from 8 to 4 to 2 then 1. But that's the past. It just kind of angers me because you could have felt so much better during those 4 years than you did. But now we'll look forward to you feeling fabulous!

If you feel fine and slept well 2 days out, I totally agree, why bother dosing again? You have your weights - as long as they don't go through the tv. You'll get some endorphins and Vitamin B while you're out tanning in the balmy weather. I think you're good to go! Don't ever feel like you're taking up any of my time, ok?? Look at me, I'm writing a novelette here.

It's funny that you dreamt about your grocery list. Was it really things that you need, or was it crazy stuff you never get? Interesting how you met your dealer in NA. Not the first time I've heard of that! Did you watch Breaking Bad? That reminds me of when Jesse and his friends went to meetings to get customers.

I hope you have a good day and get your shopping done. And not because you get amped up on l-tyrosine. lol

Melt snow melt!
(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 03-07-2015, 08:56 AM   #33
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Nancy,
Yes! I loved Breaking Bad. Seen them all. Haha. I agree with your statements about addiction, I think I felt like a fraud bc when I had brief relapses it was only due to so many surgeries (never ever get a boob job 😳 I am literally 5 boobs later! Ha! It's funny now but sure wasn't then) but I was only taking percocets. (Only,I know I was bad iv user for years). The fear of the withdrawal scared me more than I actually probably would have felt it. There were times I was on lower doses and felt better but after got my own doc kinda just gave up and listened to him, then started my own taper after awhile. So I wasn't on 8 the whole time, more like 2 I would say. The voice in my head always said less is more get off the stuff sometime.

Ah. I was dreaming rational dreams of going to the store and getting things I actually need! How bizarre for me, maybe trying to compensate for bad memory and I get pretty ADD at the store, so much to look at! So many people. Labels to read. Information overload. My bf is all matter of fact, get what we need, I am digging in purse for lists and coupons always running behind him. Some days I can make it an all day affair when I am alone.

Yes, when we get the Sunday paper it has meetings in it and I think, oh I should go, then never do. Plus with my internet savvy I could easily look it up online but don't. Guess I am waiting for the snow to go (bs, anyone?)

I did have a close call with the weight getting stuck in my baggy pant leg swinging it around (it's a kettleball routine and i don't have one I use 8lb dumbbell) but nothing was damaged not even the pants haha. My ex-finance liked to nickname me "human wrecking ball". He was spot-on.

Anyhow the sun is melting the ice on the storm door, maybe thays a good start! Going to go slide around the yard w newter-butters (real name is Newton Jack)

Hugs to you! Yes I chain smoke this thing like its going out of style. Feel fine on it but can't be good in the long run. Especially w mom who got small cell lung cancer 10 months after she quit. How cruel I thought at the time, but God does what he does for reasons we don't always know. Just have to trust him.

Many hugs my dear friend!
Angie
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Unread 03-07-2015, 03:11 PM   #34
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Hi Angie,

So glad you got a good night's sleep! I think it is a sign you are good to jump :-).

As far as the e-cigs, it was interesting to hear what Nancy had to say and you too. I've been using them since Thanksgiving, and while I'm really happy not to be smoking regular cigarettes, I'm way overdoing the e-cigs. I use the V2 with the cartridges and I'm going through 2 a day, which is like 2 packs of cigarettes. It's exactly what Nancy said - when I went outside to smoke, I did it less. I'm now thinking about getting the nicotine gum and just getting off it for good. I'm mad at myself because I was only doing it a few times a day and then gradually built up to more and more. Oh wait, that's what we do, HA! Ever the addict...
Its got to be better than smoking cigarettes, but I feel like I'm just as wed to the e-cigs, running to the store when I get low.

Well you are doing just great! Keep up that positive attitude :-). I also posted back to you the other day on my thread.

Hugs,
Elizabeth

Last edited by Eliza12; 03-07-2015 at 03:14 PM..
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Unread 03-07-2015, 03:43 PM   #35
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Elizabeth,
Ha! I love it! I have been sucking on these e-cigs for years, I swear it's an extention of a binky or something. They are so addicting, I don't know if it's the ease of use or just mindlessly puffing in the house (or constantly in the bathroom at my old job), but I don't think its the nicotine. I used to use the ones w the screw on cartridges but boy going through 3 a day for 8 bucks adds up quick-and going to the store constantly. So I got ones that you dump juice in and it's so much cheaper. 20 bucks and I am good a month give or take. I quit once with the patches (at a halfway house nonetheless-I get really gung ho when it's time to make positive changes) and once w the gum.

So yes I will jump to your thread and read what you wrote. I have jumped and its day 3 and I am totally awesome. Ready to hop on the pink cloud train! A little sweaty off and on, but that's it. Nothing else no anxiety, I have energy, just feel weird sometimes, but I know that's all my brain receptors getting reorganized and it passes quickly. I have felt this way before off and on and it's not bad, it's just weird. Hard to explain. But we went and grocery shopped today, I was well behaved hah and didn't miss a thing we needed. The sun is out, I feel good and getting better each day It means a lot that you posted thanks Elizabeth!

(Big cloud of vape smoke puff),
Angie 😮💨
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Unread 03-07-2015, 04:15 PM   #36
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Nancy,
We need one more degree! Stuck at 31 w windchill maybe the wind will stop so it can be 35 like it says it is. Oh please melt! Are you getting above freezing yet?
Angie
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Unread 03-08-2015, 06:13 AM   #37
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Well I am up quite early so I guess I will post small update.

Didn't sleep as well last night. My sleep app said 72% which isn't too bad in the broader scheme of things. Woke up a few times, tossed and turned until 4, realized I have a pretty good headache. Got up took Motrin. Laid back in bed. Now my boyfriend says at this time "I can't sleep" (karma ha!) so we put on meditation podcast. 445, Motrin not working give up, out of bed. Take my vitamins (minus l-tyrosine) and realize headache still not gone(of course I am impatient but I know my headaches) and take an imitrex. All will be well soon.

I saw boyfriend take one of his whole strips right before bed, prob caused his insomnia. Maybe I suggest he try this more often to cut down on the snores? 😉 that's mean but maybe it will get me some more sleep!

It's day 4, maybe I should add not long before bed I did hog down a whole small healthy-ish gluten free pizza. That's a good bit of food. I get excited after going to the store and just had my Sunday pig out one day early, possibly leading to nasty headache. Also ran out of normal vape juice got stuff up here that is not quite as good, and less nicotine too possibly leading to headache.

What I am saying is I don't think this is any kind of w/d related stuff except for insomnia. This nagging headache should be gone between 30-60 mins but I was doing the hot cold sweats some last night prob from trying to digest 1billion calories.

When I got out of bed I looked at thermostat, it was good bit lower than when we went to bed, so I figured we ran out of oil. Thank goodness not bf just turned it down. It's already 29 here so maybe more snow will melt!

Ok back to surfing documentaties until head gets better. I hope I can make it to church, maybe 11 instead of 830. I wont beat myself up if I don't make it though.

Hugs
Angie
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Unread 03-08-2015, 07:25 AM   #38
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Goodbye migraine! Sun where are you?
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Unread 03-08-2015, 08:14 AM   #39
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Nancy,
Great minds think alike! We were both responding to Wayne at same time. I was posting for first time so shouldnt say responding. Sponding? 😊 ooh it gets me gander when docs are jerks Nurse Angie all over that post. Anyhow I see light outside! Yay! Headache gone, yay! Boyfriend and dog still in bed! Yay!

Should be warmer here today I hope. I had a so-so night but it's not all going to be 100% on day 4. Time takes time. I am just happy to have imitrex when I need it. It's a miracle for me.

Well I will let you go for now. I rambled for fair on here since about 5am so I am running low on words (rare I know) and don't want to look like the town maniac 😜.
Hugs to you, hope it heats up!
Angie
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Unread 03-08-2015, 08:23 AM   #40
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Hi Angie, yikes, sorry you had to go through so many surgeries. Did they finally get it right and you're done? It's funny, the voice in your head is what we say around here a lot - 'less is more'. Which is so true with bupe, especially when one starts getting worsening side effects.

I guess you were making a shopping list while sleeping. Or planning a strategy to get in and out fast? Doesn't really sound like BS with not finding a meeting; just sounds like you're not quite ready to go yet. Would your BF go with you if you did decide to go?

At least no one or nothing was harmed in your dumbbell mishap. The first couple of times I used kettlebells - I have a dvd - it 'flew out' of my hands. Nothing was harmed with that mishap - missed the wall by a few inches. Probably scared the cat because it was a loud thud. So if you get a kettlebell, it's not foolproof. Well, for this fool anyways.

I have 25 right now. It got to 34 yesterday, but there was a wind so it didn't really feel like that. Today supposedly 42. We'll see.

i'm glad your headache is gone. I think you're doing great for day 4. Maybe try not to eat a pizza before bed tonight.

Elizabeth, isn't is so easy to just use that e-cigarette whenever you want and not have to go outside? Too easy and it doesn't stink either! hahaha That's why I had to get rid of it. I absolutely 'smoked' less with real cigarettes.

Angie, can you order your vape juice online, or is it a special concoction only at the place you've been getting it.

I hope both you ladies have a lovely Sunday!

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 03-08-2015, 09:02 AM   #41
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Nancy,
Yes I can order it online but silly me kept puffing away until it was totally gone. Oops. So Tuesday when I go home I can buy more I just got some little bottle to use until I get back.

Don't want to jinx myself, but recently had either 3month or 6 month post op-not so recent maybe in November or December, where does time go? And I am In the clear. That time one deflated (no clue-imagine when I had to tell my boss-at least it was a woman).

The surgeon was great. After I paid one time for initial surgery all the mishaps (none his fault, just infection, popping, wound failed to close etc etc) I paid nothing. $0. However what that entailed was many surgeries in office with no anesthesia (mostly due to emergencies and I didn't want to pay 800 anesthesia fee), only local. One time I got a Valium but it did nothing. This last time around I got 2 bigger ones for free! Amazing. Though after 2 hrs in surgery wide awake 50+needles of local I lost it and was bawling. I had some pretty bad scar tissue on one and that can't be numbed. Ugh.

But I am alive, healed and ok. I did take percocets after the last one but had lowered
My dosage of subs and pretty much felt no effect of the percs, maybe a teeny bit. It hurt so bad I was so bruised and bc one had started almost healing back to pre-ish status it was like doing the surgery for the first time. At least on left side. Right wasn't too bad. I am that offices worst nightmare but they have been fantastic.

BF might go to a meeting w me, (we did in past, best home group ever) but he is busy w work and doing a home show this next weekend so who knows. Maybe I will be more out of hermit mode then and get cabin fever and go alone.

I hear birdies chirping! Oh I can't wait for spring. We might hit 54 Wednesday! I am cautiously optimistic.

Oh-no more pizza left to eat 😳 I learned my lesson. I get one cheat day a week and that was it.

Take care and hugs! How are things in your life? We are always going on about me.
Hugs,
Angie
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Unread 03-09-2015, 07:16 AM   #42
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Good morning!
Here is my morning news report (chuckle-so full of myself) the weather is 29 now at 547am with a high of 50! Yeah!

Slept great last night. 95% on sleep app. Hoping today is better than yesterday ended up though it wasn't too bad. I think I felt kinda bad bc I missed church, then I didn't work out-day off.
I just felt kinda bummed out in waves, much helped by stand up comedy programs. I was still sweaty then chilly off and on more sweaty. I did the positive addict brain move and said "perhaps bc it's warmer today yet I am still huddled in front of the Eden pure heater" and the other one was "I must be getting to the bottom of my deodarant bc it's not working as well"

At one point I was super sweaty for a brief period and came to the conclusion since the one bottle of lotion at my house feels like and has the result mixing running alcohol and paper mâché paste together, I had an aha moment when I found a little bottle of baby oil at the house left over from the beach (I hate petroleum based products but will make exception for 2 weeks a year for tanning-eek sounds so bad) so after my shower I put it on from neck to toes. I figured my recovery is in infancy, why not smell like a darn baby?

So when I was pouring sweat I realized, oh no my body can't breathe!! It's freaking out! This may have some truth to it or not but helped when I was sweating badly. Back to paper mâché today haha

Today will be better since its a workout day! And I go home tomorrow for allergist and lab work and will see my old working cohorts and visit with them. I am excited but always worry about puppers when I make the trip. I think bf has appt in am and will be here part of the time I am gone. (Yes I am codependent on the dog as well).

Anyhow my attitude is always best in the am, and dear Nancy I hope your weather is as good as ours is supposed to be! I just googled Connecticut, are you by the ocean? I had no idea it's so tiny! 110 miles across! I have to drive 123 miles to get home. My big state looks like an ogre to your pretty petite one! Wow you can have friends the whole way across the state and see them all in one day! It will take me about 4 hours to see my brother and his wife when they have their little girl. Although I shouldn't brag about my giant state I know lots of Californians on here they are laughing. I have been to CA in 2007 (my sponsor was from there them moved to PA) I had the pleasure of going to the Pacific Group AA meeting, I think the biggest meeting in usa. It was overwhelming for this small town girl.

Ok there's the morning ramble. (No there's more) I hold the record at my old job for worst stick ever (last labs were fasting but I did drink water) they jabbed me 5 times then on the 6th just went with the artery. I felt worse for them, having started many an IV at my old job, I understand. I used to have great veins. What happened? Oh yeah I ruined them! Even though it's been 10 years you'd think they would show up somewhere else? Oh well.

Ok back to watching prefontaine. Even though boyfriend finished it came to bed and gave away the ending, I was still pretty into it. I bet runner has seen it!

Hugs,
Angie
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Unread 03-09-2015, 08:19 AM   #43
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Hi Angie, wow, you went through hell with all those surgeries. No anesthesia? Awake during surgery? I don't know how you did that. Yikes. Hopefully you'll stay in the clear and no more of that.

I think this weather has a lot to do with hermit mode. Why go out and freeze? Or slide down a hill in your car because of ice? I don't even like going to the mailbox when it's freezing out. hahaha

I hope today is better for you too. I like how you rationalized the sweats. Today if you get them, you can say it's from your workout! I hope you don't though. What's really good is that you're sleeping! What does that app do, tell you how many times you wake up - even if you don't know you wake up - that kind of thing? It's funny (haha) how people think that 'laughter is the best medicine' is just a saying, not realizing how it does work because of the endorphins. Have you heard of Eddie Izzard? I think he is one of the funniest stand-up comedians. I haven't looked for anything recently, I really have to check on YouTube, but his stuff maybe 8 to 10 years ago is still so funny (i.e. "Dressed to Kill" "Cake or Death"). He's a British comedian and he used to cross dress on stage and just kind of almost ramble and include a lot of history. But that's just me, comedy is very subjective.

Tomorrow will be a good day for you. Stock up on your vape juice! Or not, it will give you another reason to go back and visit. Is it an easy drive - like mostly highway? At least you'll have good weather for it, unlike last week.

I'm right outside Hartford, so pretty much in the middle of the state. If I were to go to the beach, I would go to Rhode Island because the Connecticut shoreline is on Long Island Sound, which isn't very appealing to me. I'm originally from Boston, so we had real beaches there. Where were you in California when you went to the giant AA meeting. Hopefully the Pacific Group was on the Pacific Ocean! Yup, I think Elizabeth and Sam b are probably laughing about your tiny state compared to CA. hahaha

I hope day 5 is a lot better for you. At least it will be warm - relatively speaking!

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 03-09-2015, 09:29 AM   #44
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Nancy,
Yes I will definitely check out Eddie Izzard I haven't heard of him. It's funny bc I am going to a wedding in May for my cousin Jeff and his partner Jeffrey ☺️ Jeff is actually a world renowned "gender illusion technician" i.e. drag queen to us little folk but he's been around the world doing it. They live in Boulder but will be in Pittsburgh due to families being there. His name is Eda Bagel (stage name) you can Google him lol. My boyfriends mom didn't understand at first that was my cousin Jeff she said "what a beautiful woman!" He performs all over but does a ton of charities, nursing homes and speaks fluent Hungarian and goes to Hungarian church. How does one compete with that? My dad spoke fluent Russian, I wish he would have taught me. So much cooler than 5 years of French.

I just finished workout going to clean some house today finally. Newty did spread eagle at bottom of steps this morning, little icy, my fault for not noticing but he literally has 2-3 inches maybe 4 from his legs to his belly. Not far to fall poor thing.

Yes it's mostly highway driving so it's not bad. I am happy my car is in better shape now too. Thanks for the info on where you live, how long have you been in CT vs Boston? I lived in Colorado too for a year it was odd bc almost everyone were transplants such a new area, I like the east bc it has a lot of history.

Ok off to clean before the endorphins go and I start watching more comedy!
Hugs
Angie
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Unread 03-10-2015, 06:21 AM   #45
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Hi Angie, seriously? Gender Illusion Technician? Wow. That's one I've never heard before. I looked him up and watched a couple of YouTube videos. Love it! Nice that he does a lot of charity work too.

At least you didn't fall with Newty! Just be careful this morning, especially if stuff iced over last night. It'll be like that here this morning. Had a lot of melting yesterday and below freezing last night. At least I can see over the snowbank at the end of the driveway now. hahaha I've been in CT now longer than I was in MA. I moved here in 1991. My family is still in MA, so I still consider that home for some odd reason. I'm still visiting here I guess... I lived in Southern California for a year before CT, and it was the same thing as you in Colorado, a lot of transplants there too.

How is day 6 for you? Hopefully you got another good night sleep. Safe travels and stock up on vape juice!

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 03-10-2015, 07:11 AM   #46
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Hey dear Nancy,
Yes it prob did freeze over. Bad. Good? Bf I think had worse insomnia than me, and is homesick too, so he offered to drive. Awesome. I feel like I slept terrible, my sleep app said 76% so that's not too bad. The app works by showing cycles between light and deep sleep. It's really accurate and that's awesome bc it's free.

I looked up Eddie izzzard on Netflix, no standup but found him in a series called the United states of Tara. Have you ever heard of it? This lady had dissociative identity disorder and its a mix between hilarious comedy and pretty serious issues. Steven speilburg is on the end credits. Sorry if you've heard of it, I am one of those people who had not had cable for past 3 years, so I am pretty unaware of series that are present. I watched every episode of xfiles last year before work. Haha.

Anyhow last night during our no sleeping we had on Bill Burr's podcast. Do you know of him? Great comedian from your neck of the woods. He has a very very bad potty-mouth but is pretty ingenious. His podcast is 34 right now out of all of them? Impressive.

Well I best be up jumping around in the dark so I can be ready to go at 8. Keep me in prayers today, I am kinda worried about my bloodwork for thyroid. You know when you want an answer but aren't sure? My hair is coming out so terribly and it did this in beginning when my thyroid blew, but that's pretty much my only symptom (maybe I can blame it in on why I can't lose anymore weight &#128521 but I will know the answer by tomorrow thanks to inside friends at my old job.

And yes I will be getting vape juice. Coupon in hand. I go home next week for hair appt so I will get another then too.

Day 6 ok so far, I am okay sleeping on the even nights and restless on the odds. By 30 days maybe I will get some of both, I cant expect it to be perfect from the beginning, I will take this anyway over a little orange film!

Hugs,
Angie
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Unread 03-11-2015, 07:16 AM   #47
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Good morning Nancy,

Day 7 here and yes got awesome sleep last night! 96% says my app. Boyfriend ended up not going along yesterday, which was fine because all that driving wore me out which is a good thing. They got me on first jab for blood which is amazing, it was good to see people from work, but it was a pacemaker day which means everyone was superbusy. Which I understand.

Got some real lotion which is amazing finally! No more paper mâché ☺️ I thought of you bc I saw a Connecticut car on I-80 and the plate said Hartford something, and i do drive a little like a maniac, especially when I want to get home, I actually bought boyfriend a radar detector-saved him tons of money, but I forgot to take it. I used it once and looked away a sec-bam-speeding ticket. Haha so anyhow I don't get aggressive until I really can't take it anymore, like people driving beside each other not passing no one else on the road going 72 in a 70.

Anyhow, Nancy, you brake checked me! Ha! My daydream ended and I realized I am totally insane. It could have been a man for all I know. �� so luckily I don't follow too close.

On a side note, this was bound to come up sometime, being a nurse and all, is the GI issue thing. I have been pretty good there since I have had my issues pretty much during taper and a little and end but not much, it didn't bother me too bad but it was there some days better than others but there.

So I talk to my best friend the past two days who has a nutrition degree and said in passing to me "my new multivitamins I got were giving me diarrhea" WHAT? I thought to myself, I take a lot of multivitamins and have similar issue. So yesterday i onky took 1 instead of recommended 2, and problem ceased.

Could be crazy coincidence, but I am being hopeful. Maybe my detox diet has ended. Just for yesterday ☺️ But maybe for today too.

Got my vape juice too! Things are good. Now I just need to find a new Jillian workout I only have 2 days left of this one, and am getting tired of it. You tube is getting low (on the ones i want of course).

If that's my biggest complaint, life is good. I will let you know how my labwork goes should find out Thursday.

Hugs,
Angie

Ps snow is really melting! Hooray! I can see the grass in a lot of spots, and all the piles of doggy doo I need to clean up from when I was feeling crummy.

Last edited by GirlGettingOffSubs; 03-11-2015 at 07:36 AM.. Reason: Fast fingers posted it too soon
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Unread 03-11-2015, 09:38 AM   #48
NancyB
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Hi Angie, that's great that you slept so well last night. I guess it was a blessing in disguise that your boyfriend didn't go. Did you get your results back, or were they too busy and you have to wait now.

Too funny that a car from CT made you slow down! So you stocked up on vape juice and real lotion, which is a good thing. For another week anyways until you make the trek back.That would be so good if the stomach issues were from taking 2 of that vitamin. Fingers crossed for that.

I had to look up Bill Burr. Same potty mouth as Eddie Izzard. Two totally different styles though. YouTube has some clips of Eddie Izzard. Cake or Death is a good one I think anyways. I had watched some United States of Tara, but didn't really care for it enough to keep watching. Are you watching 'Better call Saul' now - the Breaking Bad 'prequel'? If so, what do you think of it so far?

Yes, snow is melting! I can see so much better over the snowbanks at the end of the driveway. Haven't seen any lawn yet, but soon enough. If it doesn't snow this weekend, all will be well. I haven't bothered to listen again to the long-range forecast since the last one said snow. It's still 3 days away and they can't seem to get the same day right, so I'll wait and see.

It's already 36 here (who would have thought that 36 was a warm temperature...), maybe they will be right and it will get to 50 today!

Hope you have a great day 7!!

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 03-11-2015, 02:31 PM   #49
GirlGettingOffSubs
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Nancy,
Hey yes sleeping is great. My lovely stomach theory backfired (ha no pun intended) this morning so I guess I jumped the gun. Oh well I am fine now. Tomorrow I should know thyroid results so that's good.

BF is home between appts for work, so macgyver is on. At least it always has a happy ending. I will definitely check out that better call Saul and some Eddie izzzard stand up. I am on last season of United states of Tara and he is in almost every episode as one of her college professors. He's a good actor.

We are blessed to have some trees in the back which help with the snow melting. Today was the first afternoon we walked the whole way around the house, had to slide down the front yard, puppers got stuck but he got out on his own.

Well time to relax a little more 😀 what a life I lead. Full belly, roof over my head, great dog, good friends and a warm afternoon! I am going to go put some lotion on (heehee). I never had a problem with gratitude lists in treatment I am truly blessed. It is good to know you are on here daily like me and I look forward to hearing from you every day.

Ha! Snake on macgyver! Bf geeked. What are your snakes' names? And your cats too, I'd like to hear more about them, and no not because I want them shipped here 🐍. He has been his perfect self lately.

Ok talk to you soon hope you are melting as fast as we are!
Hugs,
Angie
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Unread 03-11-2015, 03:27 PM   #50
Eliza12
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Hi Angie,

Thanks for posting on my thread! I thought I'd write back on yours. Glad you are doing so well and hope that the vitamin was the culprit on the stomach issue. You are so right about gratitude - sometimes I forget to count my blessings and you made me do it today!

Funny you should mention it, but I'm going to get my blood tested for thyroid and some other stuff after I told the dermatologist that about half my hair has fallen out since November. I'm just sick about it - never had great hair to begin with, so it's pretty awful. I'm also sleeping a lot more than I think I should, like 9 or 10 hours. I've dropped over 30 pounds since the beginning of November, but I attributed that to the untreated diabetes. Now that my diet has completely changed and I'm exercising, I'm losing about 1-1/2 pounds per week. I need to lose about 20 more.

I'm basically doing Atkins induction diet, limiting my carbs to about 40 a day. I can't seem to tolerate carbs in the morning, it shoots my blood sugar up. So I'm still experimenting with what works best. I've been able to get my fasting number under 100 some days, but not usually. It's been up as high as 210 the few times I cheated. Probably TMI, but it's your fault, now that I know you are a nurse, ha!

The operations were for advanced arthritis in the thumb joint. The one where they clean it all out and take a tendon from the arm and ball it up to make a new cushion in the joint, because there was no cartilage left (ouch!). I ended up getting RSD in both hands after surgery, that's why it was such a big mess. It's much better now though. I'm sure husband will be fine, as RSD is pretty rare. Most people do fine after the surgery.

I'll bet you are all excited for the new baby! Too bad that brother lives so far away. Even with our grandkids living an hour away, we don't see them as much as we'd like to. When my husband retires, we'll go more often and have them down more too.

Best,
Elizabeth
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