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Unread 09-14-2013, 10:23 PM   #1
julie48
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Hi. I have been thinking about something. I am no longer worried about my surgery in November and the lack of pain control I will be given. But I think what I am going to do is stop my subs toward the end of October, and then after about 36 hours, I am going to start taking one or two Norco a day. This will stop any withdrawal and I will be sub free by November 15, which is my surgery date. I am not worried about getting hooked again, as first of all, I am NOT looking to get high, and second off, when I got dependent I didn't realize it til it was too late. I was never "addicted". Thank God, but I just didn't know how to taper without getting sick. Anyway, my husband is prescribed Norco for osteoarthritis, and he is allowed 6 pills a day, but only takes one or two if needed. So I will take his for a couple weeks before surgery, I will have no subs left in me, and maybe when I am well, I can just stop everything. I doubt I will withdrawal from one or two Norco a day. Does this sound like a doable plan.....thanks all and I am ready to get off subs after three and a half years, not in a hurry, just ready is all. Feedback, please. Thanks!! Julie
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Unread 09-15-2013, 01:10 AM   #2
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Hi, I started a thread regarding Norco. I posted it in the starting treatment link, but obviously didn't mean to. I really need some feedback on my intentions to stop subs and start full opiates before surgery. The thread is named "Norco" and I would appreciate if I could get some feedback. I constantly give of myself on this forum and would love to get some support back concerning that post. I am confused and unsure if my intentions will be ok to do. Again, the thread is named Norco, and my situation is posted there. Thank you all. Julie
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Unread 09-15-2013, 06:24 AM   #3
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Hey Julie,

Yeah, our "motivations." Why we do what we do, especially when we think we're doing it for another reason. It's as perplexing as it is troubling.

Certainly it was for me.

I deluded myself for years, was lost in that delusion, in fact, for years!

You ask about your "Norco" motivations, as it applies to your upcoming surgery. Of course, it isn't as simple as that. Not when a person has been in the thick of drug addiction. Sure, we may call it "dependence," and perhaps it is. But no matter, not really.

When our lives are built around the getting, then taking, then getting again...and again...and again all those opiates, well---our lives are in trouble. Name it what we will.

So? Will this little experiment with Norco throw you back again into a sea of narcotic trouble? Truth is Julie, I don't know.

But it will, in my opinion, "awaken the demon." Sorry to sound too dramatic. Though it is 2 in the freakin' morning! Ha!

I'm also just rambling some, just some quick free thinking-thoughts. And those thoughts take me straight to my own experience with Norco.

Like you are about to do, I had surgery. Both knees. And although I TOLD my entire world what I was doing, vis--vis the pain meds, I was near-astonished what those first couple of pain pills did to my brain.

Yep, the rush came...rushing back. A warm and potent reminder about WHY I'd succumbed to my addiction in the first place. Those Norco felt.....good.

There's the rub, Julie. When you take those Norco, you will feel them.....and you will be reminded of all the "good parts" of opiates.

For me, however, it was that DELUSION again, creeping back into my life. Just like the demon it is. For me, I repeat. Because for me, that good and warm rush will always threaten my life, physical, emotional and spiritual.

My addiction very nearly ended me....as it came "this close" to destroying my family and all their good lives, along with my own.

Be aware, Julie. I guess that's my only essential point. Be aware that you do risk something...and that this risk is real.

Yet, it is NOT inevitable. Building those walls worked for me. Heck, I really did tell everyone. Everyone important in my life: my wife, my kids, my friends, my Support Group. I became...Accountable.

So, that's that...I guess. Remain Accountable, Julie.

Be on your guard. Be aware. And, best you can, be genuinely honest with yourself. Which is, of course, not an easy thing---though it is essential.

A few rambling, early morning, still dark and September Hot thoughts.

***Oh, I am facing another surgery---so, truth is, your question is one I will sooner-or-later have to again ask myself.

best,

sam b
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Unread 09-15-2013, 07:52 AM   #4
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Hi Julie, I merged both of the threads so they'd be in one spot.

In addition to what Sam posted, here are my thoughts. How do you know you'll need the norco? That's still another month and a half away and you could very well be tapered off by then. Or at 1mg (may be less by then) it might just be better for you to stop the Suboxone a few days prior to the surgery and not take anything else until it's given to you afterwards. They can titrate the dose of pain medication up to compensate for any blocking the 1mg or less of Suboxone will be doing.

You also have to remember that norco is short-acting (half life of around 4 hours) versus burenorphine that is long-acting (half life of around 37 hours) - and you have to think ahead about the 'what ifs' - what if 2 norco a day isn't enough? The withdrawals would be from the lack of an opiate and it may not matter that it's norco versus Suboxone - the withdrawals would just come more quickly because from the norco because of the short halflife.

I think you should also discuss this with your Suboxone doctor and your surgeon and anesthesiologist - they may have a different alternative. By taking your husband's norco, you'd be self-medicating and that's something that you want to avoid. Your doctor(s) may prefer to do something else.

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Unread 09-15-2013, 10:11 AM   #5
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Hi and thanks. I will take what everyone said in to serious consideration. My husband has been prescribed Norco for a couple years now, though he barely takes it. And of course I have no desire what so ever to indulge in them. They just sit here, taken occasionally by my husband. He has osteoarthritis in his hands and he is a chemical operator for the last 28 years, so sometimes his pain gets bad at work. Neither of us drink or engage in any type of drugs....he's a great man. I suppose I am contemplating this because I have been trying to taper from 1mg with absolutely no success. Yes, you are right, I may not need pain meds after surgery, but what if God forbid I did. I just thought easing any w/d with the Norco, will eventually lead me off of everything. Again, thanks for your help. School started back up this past Wed. Wow, these classes I am in are very interesting. One day when I open my own practice, I hope to look back and begin to understand some of my reasoning I have for things. Peace to all. Julie
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Unread 09-15-2013, 10:21 AM   #6
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Julie, It seems you are obsessing over the discontinuation of suboxone. You say you do not need it as part of your recovery now so why not just taper down and be off when you have your surgery? There is plenty of time to do that comfortably since you are comfortable now at 1mg.

Pretty dangerous thinking in making plans to take your hubby's norco, imo, whether before or after surgery. NancyB has a great suggestion that you discuss all of this with your doctors. As Sam mentioned, accountability is something that one needs in recovery. I wonder if you are hesitant to talk with your suboxone dr because he is unaware of your tapering at all? Now that is something that you need to search your soul about - what is the reason that you are stocking up so much suboxone when you are planning to discontinue it?

If you can look at it objectively, like it is another person who is coming to you for counseling, I think you will see it a little more clearly. What do you think?

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Unread 09-15-2013, 10:44 AM   #7
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Hi, I never said I don't need suboxone as a part of recovery, I said I am ready to taper off of them, I have been on them over three years and I am having a hard to time getting past 1mg. I became pretty bad feeling when I went to skip a day. It is very disconcerting. The Norco was just a thought, I don't have to do it. I was wondering if it would be a way to get off of everything easier. As for stock piling, my doctor and I have never discussed me tapering and he just writes my scripts with two refills, and that's it. I don't give it much thought I suppose since I hardly pay anything for them, and now that my deductible is completely met, I pay nothing. I do help two friends who were bad on opiates. They have both gotten their lives back and I give them each 30 subs a month. One of the ladies is now tapering to 4mg, so she will get 15 a month. Neither has insurance and I felt it only right to help them as I have bottles of subs here. No, I do not charge them, I don't need to. They are both aware this will not be forever and they have been given an opportunity to get enough suboxone to taper properly when I am completely off of them. And it is not so much obsession as it is being tired of taking these things and depending on a pill to make me feel normal. If I could get past 1mg, I would feel a little better about my taper. Thanks for you input. Julie

ps: and you are right, my doctor does not know I have tapered, and I am not the only one here who doesn't tell their doctor. Nothing wrong with stock piling and when I am off, I will either flush them or give them to the ladies I am helping. Either way, for a while it was probably fear of getting cut off like so many others have had happen. I now know that will not be the case with me. I only see my doctor every three months and he is also my general Practioner as well. Again, thanks.

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Unread 09-16-2013, 12:33 PM   #8
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Hi everyone. I just spoke with my sub doctor, luckily I actually got a hold of him via phone! Anyhoo, I don't see him until October 8th and felt compelled to discuss my concerns now as I don't want to "obsess" or whatever you call it, I have too much going on concerning school and my health that worrying about getting past 1mg should not be so prominent in my life. My doctor told Norco is not the way I should go about getting off the subs or getting my receptors free from subs. He gave me some ideas re: getting below 1mg and promised me they would give me the proper amount of medication if needed post surgery. There is a chance I won't need it as I may not have that much pain anyway! Yay! See all, I have a very low tolerance to pain, and although I know taking the Norco route is not the right route, I suppose I needed someone else to confirm my doubts....and you all did. Thanks. I would like to keep this thread going so I can get the continued support for the next 8 weeks before surgery. I am scared and I can't pretend I am stronger than I am. And sometimes being on this forum, I am made to feel my concerns are not all that important because I am thought of as "strong", I am and I am not. I see threads that have been kept going with hundreds of responses, and I could use that type of support sometimes too. I certainly don't expect that of course, but I will say there are many senior member no longer here, and that sucks! I am in the field of helping, studying for my Master's in Psychology as most of you know, but even someone with as much recovery and education as myself needs people too......no matter how far we get in school or life, we are always learning, and I learn from all of you, everyday. Julie

PS: Sam, thank you for your kind, understanding post. I like hearing from you. You are right, my demons have been in remission for a long time, no need to awaken them. God bless my friend.

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Unread 09-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #9
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Hi Julie, I'm glad that you were able to talk with your doctor on the phone and got some good advice. If you can get under 1mg, that would be great, but if you can't don't sweat it, because you can stop that a couple of days before surgery and they will still be able to titrate you up with full agonist painkillers IF you need them.

I don't blame you for being nervous about the surgery. That's a big surgery you're facing. Please come here and vent or write about how you're feeling. Sometimes writing out our thoughts is good therapy.

Sounds like school will be doing a good job in keeping your mind a bit occupied - so that's a good thing. But remember to do things for yourself, even if it's just taking 10 minutes to do nothing.

We're here for you!

Nancy
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Unread 09-16-2013, 10:33 PM   #10
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Hi Nancy. Thank you for the kind words. I will be ok, I have to be. I will continue to come here and offer my support, but I don't expect to get much back except from you and one or two others. I can tell who is self-absorbed with their own issues, and who gives of themselves, and not just take. You being the biggest giver of them all. I am sorry that some of our senior members who were so important to the forum are gone, but there are still a few great people left who take the time to help everyone. Hopefully as our newer member become more comfortable and stronger, they too will beable to offer the support I know they have within them.

There are a few reasons I choose to stay. 1. You. You are a supportive, caring, and wonderful person whose posts I look forward to reading. 2. The few others I feel a closeness to and who offer so much of themselves. 3. The new comers who need members to help them, so they in turn to be a help to themselves and others. As I said no matter how much recovery or knowledge we have, we are always learning and we will always need other people. As for my surgery, yeah it is considered a major surgery and actually a quite of bit of prep before hand, but I am confident it will go smooth. As for school, my classes this semester are Advanced Human Development and Research - Evaluation Methodology. Ugh!! The research class is NOT easy! But I'll prevail! Lol! Take care....

And Again, thank you.....Julie
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Unread 09-17-2013, 06:08 AM   #11
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Hello Julie.

Thanks for your last post. I too feel that it's good to have as many people around with knowledge and experience as possible. As you said, the newcomers benefit and, hopefully will offer their own advice to others in time. Yeah, we all need each other wherever we are in recovery (and thank God,today wherever in the world we are these days).
Continued learning (and your willingness) opens the heart and mind to sound personal development which in turn impacts on others so everybody wins.

I do like what Mr Sam Baily said. Eloquently put with good advice and 'thinking' ideas for reflection. Thank you Sam.

Julie I'm sure that you will be fine for your op and that being with us will help. You continue to input to other threads and I'm sure it's really appreciated, especially by the newbies. As Nancy said, it really can help in the therapeutic sense to vent here by writing, that's what I've been doing for this last year, as part of my overall treatment and it's really helped. I can see that you get the same kind of benefit. Nice one!.

Hope you had a good weekend and that this week brings you all you need x

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Unread 09-17-2013, 12:01 PM   #12
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Hi there Leo, thank you. You are always another person whose posts I enjoy reading. You have been a support to me since I have been a member and I thank you for that. Yes, being here, supporting others, getting support and venting are most certainly healthy and therapeutic. I again thank you for your continued support and wisdom. You are a blessing. xo Julie
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Unread 09-18-2013, 01:21 PM   #13
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HI all: The pre-op nurse called me today to go over my history, and gave me orders fpr some tests I need to have done per the anesthesiologist. Anyway, she asked me all me meds I am on, and assured me, just as my doctor did that they will take good care of me and not to worry about any pain.....always nice to speak to an understanding, empathic person.

Although November 15th seems far off, it really isn't, just less than 8 weeks. I was told I will be in a private room with an extra bed if my hubby wants to stay the night. Ugh! I don't think so....he can go home and leave me to rest! Anyway, I am feeling more optimistic, but I am beginning to get overwhelmed with school. This research class has me ready to blow my head off!! I feel like I can't concentrate on all the reading. Well, having a lot on my mind isn't helping, I suppose I just need to compartmentalize. I have a 4.0 in Grad School and that is an accomplishment big time for me.

I just wonder if I have the self-efficacy needed to do this all the way through. Peace. Julie
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Unread 09-18-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
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Hi Julie, sounds like you have a really good team working for you for your surgery. That sure helps with peace of mind.

Too funny about sending your hubby home so you can rest instead of him staying.

Have you thought about making a list of things with their priorities? I find that sometimes just writing stuff down when I feel overwhelmed really helps. Especially when you can cross them off. It kind of keeps my mind on what I'm doing and not the other things that I have to do. Not sure if it will help, but wanted to pass it along.

4.0, can't get any better than that! Congrats!

Nancy
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Unread 09-19-2013, 01:14 AM   #15
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Hi Nancy, yes, I have a great team working for me, and the hospital I am going to is awesome, beautiful and just top of the line. Anyway, I don't need hubby staying overnight and monopolizing the t.v. if I choose to watch it!! I had school this evening, and after going over so much in class for 6 hours (between the two classes), I already feel better and have more understanding of the material.

I actually do write down a lot of reminders, maybe I should start writing lists and like you said, mark off "done" one at a time. I have so much to do and now on top of everything, my mom's dementia seems to be getting worse. She is not "out there", but I can see the changes and I am worried sick about her. The end chapter of dementia/Alzheimer's is not so optimistic. One day at a time. Thanks Nancy. I can always count on you for support. Julie
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Unread 09-19-2013, 08:38 AM   #16
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Hi Julie, hahaha hubby monopolizing the tv. Hide that remote!

That's good that your classes last night helped with your understanding. Less clutter in your brain, right?

I'm sorry your mom is getting worse. Does she live alone or does she have help during the day? You do have so much on your mind. Let me know if you try the list thing. It really helped me and some others I mentioned it too. Especially the crossing off of stuff with a big red marker. hahaha

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Unread 09-19-2013, 11:38 AM   #17
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Hi Nancy, yes a big red marker will do!!! And yes, hubby hogs the remote!!
My mom does live alone and for the most part can take care of herself, it is just the confusion of certain things, the constant repeating, and asking the same questions over and over. I just have to keep a close eye and look for any signs she is a danger to herself. I track her finances, and she seems to be doing fine with that. It is just so worrisome and I have been searching for a new neurologist for her as she is not happy with her present one. She has had two dx of dementia, so the dx is correct, but the doctor she has is dismissive and blames any problems she is having on Dementia. So yeah, I have a lot on my plate.

As for school, I feel much better after going over the material in classes last night. Learning about "correlation does not equal causation" and hypotheses is not exactly fun!! But we must know it!! Ugh! Other than that I am fine. Still at 1mg but am going to try to start skipping a day soon. I want to get to as low a dose as possible before surgery. Thanks again for your support. If not for you, I'd probably leave. As I have said most of the members, (not all) are stuck in their own sh*t! xox Julie
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Unread 09-19-2013, 09:05 PM   #18
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Hi Julie, what is it with men and remotes??!! hahaha

That's great that your mom can still live alone and really good that she's doing fine with her finances. Wow, I just don't understand how the doctor can be dismissive - why do some of the people become doctors anyways?

I'm not sure if you've seen this. It's from Ros and Mary's taper thread in 2006, it's an interesting way to taper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDayBFree
Mary ~

My physician had made a suggestion to me that he says has also worked well for several of his patients.

There really is no reason to hold to a 24 hour schedule. If Sub doesn't impact your sleep than there is no concern as to when in the day you take it. How he suggested that I drop from 4 down to 2, is to go to 2mg every 16 hour dosing rather than 24 and to stay at that for the most part (obviously, you wouldn't get up in the middle of the nite to dose) until you are completely comfortable with it, then move to 2mg every 24 hours. It works better than trying 3mg, especially if you are trying to come up with any kind of an accurate 3mg dose out of an 8mg tablet!

The first time I was on Sub, that's how I did it and there was no noticeable impact at all. I was patient and didn't hurry it, as I know that you wil also be patient. It probably was about a week or 10 days before I went to every 24 hours from the 16 - and I was fine.

SomeDayBFree
Maybe you can try that with .5 mg and spread the time out like that. Just another way to do it.

I'm glad you're sticking around.
(((hugs)))
Nancy
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Unread 09-19-2013, 09:52 PM   #19
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Thanks Nancy: Men and remotes, Ugh!! How did they live without remotes when there wasn't any!! What did anyone do before cell phones!! Hell, I remember when we had rotary phones!! LOL! I will try that plan u posted. Subs do not interfere with my sleep, so it is doable. I actually forgot to take my dose today and just realized it a little while ago. Awesome. I will take it tomorrow and maybe I can get to every other day, which will bring to .5mg, then I can follow the plan u mentioned. This is the first time I have missed a 1mg dose and felt alright. I guess I'll see.

Yes, I am glad I am sticking around too. Even if I can support a few others and get some support from a few, like u of course, why not stay. Many people don't realize that when we offer our support, advice and empathy, we are actually helping ourselves as well. We keep what we've got by giving it away. And sometimes when I am feeling crappy, then post to someone else, helping them in turn helps me. Sometimes we need to "heed" what we write. Kind of walk the talk....Hugs back at ya! Julie
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Unread 09-20-2013, 02:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julie47 View Post
Thanks Nancy: Men and remotes, Ugh!! How did they live without remotes when there wasn't any!! What did anyone do before cell phones!! Hell, I remember when we had rotary phones!! LOL! I will try that plan u posted. Subs do not interfere with my sleep, so it is doable. I actually forgot to take my dose today and just realized it a little while ago. Awesome. I will take it tomorrow and maybe I can get to every other day, which will bring to .5mg, then I can follow the plan u mentioned. This is the first time I have missed a 1mg dose and felt alright. I guess I'll see.

Yes, I am glad I am sticking around too. Even if I can support a few others and get some support from a few, like u of course, why not stay. Many people don't realize that when we offer our support, advice and empathy, we are actually helping ourselves as well. We keep what we've got by giving it away. And sometimes when I am feeling crappy, then post to someone else, helping them in turn helps me. Sometimes we need to "heed" what we write. Kind of walk the talk....Hugs back at ya! Julie

To add to my recent above post, I wanted to mention that I skipped my dose yesterday and felt great. I took it today and hope to skip tomorrow! Maybe then I can get to .5 from 1mg. I sure hope so!!! xo
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Unread 09-20-2013, 08:41 PM   #21
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Wow!! That's great that you skipped yesterday Julie. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you can skip tomorrow. If you can, then you are realistically at .5 because of the way it averages out.

Have a great weekend!
(((hugs)))
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Unread 09-20-2013, 10:13 PM   #22
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Thanks. I hope so too. I mean I actually forgot my dose yesterday and didn't remember til much later, and I had only remembered that I forgot, I wasn't in w/d or anything like that. We'll see, hopefully tomorrow I will be fine not to take it and then resume Sunday. To be honest, I wish I had done this taper at least a year or more ago. But I didn't. It is what it is

Something is bothering me. As I mentioned my mom is repeating herself, etc., but seems otherwise to be able to handle things. These past several days she has been asking me to find her a new doctor, look up credit card info through southwest airlines, call human resources at Loyola, just a bunch of things that she would have never, ever asked someone else to do. She is very smart and very resourceful. She knows how to deal with money and was always a good business woman and investor. She has made hundreds of thousands over these years due to investments, so with that being said, it isn't that I mind that I mention this, it is because I wonder if this is a part of the dementia. It just isn't like her. I am worried and if God forbid this got really bad, we'd have to move in to her home to take care of her. That is mine and hubby's plan A. I don't want to put her in a nursing home when she can stay in her own home (which is big and beautiful). Plan C (nursing home) would only happen if it became impossible to care for her. I hope it never comes to that, as even though I am power of attorney over her health if need be, it is not a job I look forward to having to enforce. Do you think these things I have mentioned are indicative of dementia. Thanks. Julie
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Unread 09-21-2013, 07:45 AM   #23
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Hi Julie

First i want to give you BIG HUGS for your taper! Woo Hoo Skipping days, forgetting to take it...all good signs!

My mom started forgetting things & within a year she was dx with Alzheimer. The only thing i can offer is to try & keep track (pay attention) of what she does, especially with money. My mom cleared out the savings acct & we have no idea what she did with the money. It was awful to watch her forget things & I kept her with me until she passed. She used to think the people on TV were talking directly to her. She was also a very smart & beautiful woman. She looked 10 years younger than she was. She also seemed ok in the beginning, & after she got lost 3 times we realized she really wasn't ok. One episode was that she was in CT & got gas but went back to get gas again to the same place & the guy called the cops (in a good way, he was worried) & they brought her to the hospital & then called my dad.

You are really special to have plan A be for you & hubby to move in & take care of her, so many people are "to busy" to even consider that.

Hugs
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Unread 09-21-2013, 08:05 AM   #24
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Hi Julie, I don't know enough about dementia to help. I did find these things that were interesting:

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dem...CTION=symptoms

Have you asked her why she's asking you do to those things just to see what she says? Would that help in trying to figure it out?

Ditto what Ellie said about your Plan A.

Nancy
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Unread 09-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #25
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Hey Julie,

Sadly yes, any kind of new or unusual behaviors ARE indicative of dementia onset...or progression.

However, such behaviors do NOT prove it. In other words, your Mom may be in perfect cognitive condition. I mean, those ARE her affairs, right?

Yet, Julie? That is not likely the case. Sadly. That her thinking/behaviors are cognitively "perfect," I mean.

Your action? As Mima suggested, be aware! Pay close attention to those behaviors.....and be ready 'n willing to involve yourself in those affairs, should her behaviors become harmful---or too negative.

Dementia/Alzheimers, oh what an awful condition! Years ago, a book was published: "The 36 Hour Day." It spoke to the horrors of Alzheimers, yes. More than that though, it spoke to the (sometimes) greater heartbreak of the CAREGIVERS to those folks afflicted with dementia.

Anyway. Mortality sucks. Can I get an Amen to that!?

Keep strong for your Mom. And for your family. And for Julie47. She's really important, too.

Oh, and a hearty congrats for weaning down to .5mgs, Sub. Ok, so you're not QUITE there yet---but so, so close. You will get there. Patience, of course, is the key. ONE of 'em, anyway.

Not an addict's strongest character trait, I know. Ha!

Ok. Best to you, Julie.

sam b
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Unread 09-21-2013, 11:40 AM   #26
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Sam, Mima, and Nancy, thank you for your support. Her dx of dementia has come twice. I watched my grandmother die of Alzheimer's at the age of 97. Yes Sam, what a horror. She was put in a nursing home as she was quite sick with it. I visited her ALL the time, brought her cookies, sang with her (which she loved to do), and sat with her. It was horrific watching a dignified, gorgeous, pistol of a woman become a shell. Since my mom dealt more with her "needs" since she had power of attorney, etc., I was the loving, doting granddaughter, being there for her and loving her.

Now my mom has been told she has dementia and as I stated, asking me to do things she would never ask anyone. I suppose you have a good idea Nancy, I think I will ask her why and see what her response is.

Mima, I am so sorry your mother and your family had to endure this awful disease. The thing that scares me the most is knowing what can potentially happen. Nothing feels right. I am able to track her spending as I am on her bank accounts, so I can see them online, but as for her investments, her broker is my broker, so if need be I can confer with him and her attorney. But I don't want it to come to that. I want her to remain independent and happy. Ugh!! This suck and I am glad I have you all. Thank you. Julie

ps: Yes Sam mortality suck and I give an AMEN to that!! And I wrote that we had a plan A and C, I meant B. oops. And hopefully I will get to the .5 mark. We will see how today goes, as today is "skip dose" day. Also, I will be 48 on March 4th. What shall I do, my user name is Julie47?? I guess I'll just have to stay 47 forever!! LOL! xoxo Love you guys.

Last edited by julie48; 09-21-2013 at 11:59 AM..
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Unread 09-21-2013, 11:48 AM   #27
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Hi Julie. Just wanted to offer some support. I, too, am straddling the line between 1mg and .5mg. I guess I'm probably at .75. When I tried going straight to .5, I felt uncomfortable after two days. It amazes me the power of this drug. A teeny tiny little crumb can make w/d go away!

If you want to keep each supported and occupied during this process, I'm in!

Good luck with everything :-)
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Unread 09-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #28
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I appreciate the support, Ellie, Sam, Nancy and HOYH, and HOYH I am glad you are in!! I responded to Ellie, Sam and Nancy's feedback just below your post HOYH and I am so glad your doing well and at such a low dose. Yes, it is amazing the power of sub! I suppose I am probably where u are at, teetering somewhere around .75. If I can get thru today with no subs, I just might actually be tapered to .5. We'll see.....not so easy but I'M TRYING!! God bless you and thank you for being here. Julie
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Unread 09-22-2013, 06:58 PM   #29
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Hi Nancy...seems this thread just keeps getting further and further away and I will just keep bringing it back.....I need to. I did ask my mom why she is asking me to do things for her she would normally always do herself, I assured her I don't mind, but that I was concerned. She said she doesn't know, she just has so much to do. That was the answer.

I found her a new neurologist she is seeing on Oct. 15th. I am hoping to try to go with her. That is a busy week for me, along with school on the 16th , and then a seminar regarding internship on the 17th! Ugh! I can't believe I will be doing my internship next fall. Once I am though with my Master's Degree I will probably take a year off, work at a rehab or open a practice then go for my Doctorate. It is something I would like to do, but that is a BIG decision to make when the time comes and I first need to see how I do after getting my Masters. I also need to be sure my health hold up enough to handle to stress of work and a Doctorate program.

Anyway, still trying to get to .5mg. A little hard, but trying. I see my sub doctor October 8th and he is being helpful per our phone call, then we I see him I can talk more directly with him regarding the surgery, etc. He did tell me not to worry, and I am not, but it'll be nice to have a face to face. I only see him every three months.

Thanks again for all you help and support. I hope to get better, clearer answers concerning my mom on Oct. 15. I just don't know what to do sometimes. This is taking its toll on me and my stress level is high. I wanted to fly out to Arizona on winter break, then maybe hit Ohio again for a few days, but I doubt I will be recovered enough from surgery to do it before we return to school Jan. 8th. Bless you. Julie
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Unread 09-22-2013, 10:05 PM   #30
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Julie47 hey that sounds like a good plan. Thabks for your story and prayers for you about your surgery. Wish you all well and happy recovery!!!!
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Unread 09-23-2013, 07:55 AM   #31
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Hi Julie, that's kind of a vague answer from your mom. How do you interpret it? That's really great that you found her a new neurologist. Hopefully this one will be responsive to her needs and your questions. Speaking of questions, maybe start writing down things as you think of them. (I'm a big list person, have you noticed? lol More because I know I'd forget to bring some things up and I'd be kicking myself once I left the doctor's office and I thought of them.)

How long do you need to intern for? When will you get your Masters? Just a thought, but really think about working for someone or at a rehab before starting your own practice. It might be too much to deal not only with finding a clientele and then counseling them, but then you'd have all the crap that's involved in having your own business (taxes, expenses, having the correct insurances - especially liability insurance, etc.). Plus by working somewhere, you can get to know other counselors and network and, maybe end up in a place that will help pay for school and/or be accommodating if you decide to go for the PhD. Just a few things to keep in mind when the time comes.

When you see your Suboxone doctor, maybe ask him for prescription of 2mg pills (or even film). Then if you need to, you can get to lower amounts. Or maybe you'll be to .5mg by then! I'm sure the all the stressors aren't helping in the tapering department.

Staying 47 forever is a good thing. Ageless Julie! Aren't the 40s the new 20s anyways?

Have a great day!

Nancy
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Unread 09-23-2013, 08:20 AM   #32
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Yep. Julie, you will have to change your username to JULIE27 !

Sorry to hear about your mom. Sending my payers. God Bless for now.

Leo xoxox
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Unread 09-23-2013, 01:22 PM   #33
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Thanks Nancy and Leo. Oh Nancy, I would most definitely work for someone else before going into practice. Meeting others, networking, building clientele are most important, and opening my own practice is a thought, it is something I may not even want to do. I have to do 700 hours of internship and may even get hired where I intern, and if not, I will hopefully get a great reference.

Yes, my mother's answer was vague, but I didn't want to push it. I will write down my questions and concerns for the neurologist when she goes on the 15th.

Thanks again and good idea about the 2mg pills or films. And yes, I will just remain 47 forever or ageless Julie. The 40's is the new 20's but I don't feel 20!~ lol! I like it!! Hugs. Julie :0
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Unread 09-24-2013, 01:26 AM   #34
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Hello Julie

I have been sidetracked as of late and had a little time to read some postings. Glad you plan is working. You are doing really great job!

Well, I am getting too tired to write and I know my wife will call me any minute to come to bed so just glad I could touch base.

I have a lot going on but do not have time to write about it all except to say it is all in God's hands and He has done well by my family thus far (I will say my brother with lung Ca was able to make his last unmarried dughters wedding and he had a wonderful time-now back to 7 day a week chemo/radiation)

God bless

Glen
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Unread 09-24-2013, 07:54 AM   #35
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Hi Ageless Julie, holy internship - 700 hours. Are you assigned where you intern or does the school have a list of preferred places? That sure is a nice amount of time to get know people and, if YOU like it, hopefully get hired.

Can you get your mother's files from her current doctor to bring with you to the new doctor?

((hugs))

Nancy
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Unread 09-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #36
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Hi Nancy, yes we can get the files to take to her new neurologist.

As for internship, We have a booklet with tons of place to do internship throughout several of the counties in Illinois. Hundreds actually. On Oct. 17th, we are having a seminar regarding internships, placement, etc. It will be informative and give us an understanding to how it works. I know, 700 hours!!! Now I am hearing 500 from my classmate when we spoke on the phone, but I think she is wrong. I am going to ask tomorrow night when I have class. Either way it is a looooot of hours!! But will definitely be great experience and hopefully become a job.

As for being ageless, hmmm??? That does that mean I live forever??

((Hugs)) Julie
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Unread 09-25-2013, 07:48 AM   #37
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Hi Julie, that's fabulous that there are so many places you can do your internship. Looks like you'd be able to pretty much tailor it to your specific goals instead of being 'stuck' somewhere that you don't have much interest in pursuing.

hahaha, I'm not sure about living forever, unless you're a vampiress.

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 09-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #38
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LOL! Last I checked I am not a vampiress....so I guess living forever won't happen. Nancy, it seems I am having a hard time skipping days and tapering from 1mg . Could it just be psychological. I think a lot of tapering is when we get down to this small amount, for some anyway like me!! I mean I had skipped a day and was fine, but I had forgotten to take it, now that I haven't "forgot" again, it seems like I feel weird if I don't take it. Ugh!! This blows. Help! Julie
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Unread 09-26-2013, 08:17 AM   #39
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Hi Julie, guess you're just one of us - a mere mortal then. heehee

When you feel 'weird', is it withdrawals or do you think it's more psychological? I was thinking about it and remembered a few things people have done over the years that have worked for different people. These worked when they were low like you and thought it was more psychological instead of their bodies just not ready to reduce yet.

Instead of taking it at the same time each day, they'd tell themselves, 'not right now, I'll take it in an hour' and keep pushing it off. I guess it worked because they 'knew' they'd be taking it so it was ok that it wasn't right then.

Some others made it a challenge - it was them versus the Suboxone. lol By doing that and not taking it, they were 'winning' the battle.

There was another person years ago who didn't post, but went to chat regularly who would take his Suboxone at the same time every day, but he would time it and spit it out after X amount of seconds - slowly decreasing the amount of time he kept it under his tongue. A couple of other people tried it too and it worked when they were down to 1mg or under.

But if it's not yet time, then try not to worry about and set a new date to reduce again. Maybe taking the pressure off of yourself to get lower will work too.

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 09-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #40
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Hi Nancy and thanks for the greeeeaaat tips!! I had actually thought about spitting it out a little early but since I am so low and there isn't much to spit out, I might just try that time thing you mentioned. You are right, no pressure, but I honestly do want to jump, though I will be patient.

I am so overwhelmed with school right now and have two midterms Oct. 9th. Ugh!! I feel like my brain is going to explode! It is amazing after all the years of cocaine abuse and then dealing with the opiate dependence, that I am a Grad student with a 4.0 GPA! I am not boasting, I just want others to know I am living testimony that God can move mountains.....and I was one hellava stubborn mountain to move my friend!

I know I must keep my eye on the prize, as a Master's Degree doesn't come easily, but one day, it will come. I just pray my health and cognitive abilities remain in tact and I can continue my scholastic journey. Between my health issues and my mom's dementia, my plate is full.

On our spring break, which I think is March, I am going to take off to Arizona for a week, then fly into Ohio for a few days. I would go on winter break in November, but surgery is awaiting!! Ugh! Thanks again, I am so glad I have you to talk to. You rock and roll!!! Julie
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Unread 09-26-2013, 08:14 PM   #41
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Hi again, if you get 2mg pills your next appointment, that would make it easier to spit out if you wanted to try that. And even easier to get to .5mg. But if you got the film, you could get down lower too, especially with the 2mg films. But check and see how much it would cost because you get such a better deal with the generics. I have every confidence you'll have jumped before your surgery. The time thing or the smaller tablets or both might just do the trick.

That's so fabulous that you've kept a 4.0 with everything going on. Congrats!! You're really showing that there is life after addiction and anything is possible if the effort is put into it!

Arizona will be really nice in March - especially if there's a bunch of snow on the ground at the time.

You're the one who's rocking it!!

Nancy
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Unread 09-26-2013, 10:40 PM   #42
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Thanks Nancy.......yes, Arizona is awesome. I stay in Tucson with my cousin, she is so cool and is actually a LCPC (Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor), so we always have great things to talk about. Then I go to Scottsdale for a day and visit my oldest daughter. She is 25 and a respitory therapist. I am very proud of her. Yes, then I'll fly into Ohio and visit my some family and see the horses and hit the casino. I am not a big gambler at all, just a couple times a yr. I'll gamble. That's the game plan. Wish I could do it in November, but I'll wait til Spring break.

I sure hope u r right about jumping before surgery. It is less than two months away....ooooooh! Have a good night and thanks Rocky!! Julie
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Unread 09-28-2013, 09:16 AM   #43
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Hi Julie, that sounds like it would be a nice relaxing vacation. We have casinos here in Connecticut. I very rarely go, and when I do, it's usually with someone who has never been and wants to see it. I think it's more fun to people watch than anything. I'm not that big on gambling, and will only spend a small amount on it because I always lose!

Hope you're not too inundated with school work and will be able to do something fun with your hubby this weekend.

Nancy
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Unread 09-28-2013, 08:51 PM   #44
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Yes, it does sound relaxing and I wish I could do it next break, but noooo I have to go and have a friggin' hysterectomy!! Anyhoo, I don't gamble much either and when I do, it is a couple times of year when I vacation, it is very small amounts......never was a gambler.


Anyway, I did that time tip you mentioned with my subs. Ok, I usually take it at about 8 or 9 am. So, I waited til noon yesterday, and waited til 5pm today. Now, the only thing is eventually aren't I going to just be back to the way it was. I took it at 5 pm today, so when should I take it tomorrow? Or should I try to skip it? I am just a bit confused.

Thanks for being here Nancy, without you I probably would not even be down as low as I am on subs. The information and support you have provided me is priceless and though I don't know you personally, I will never forget you. But I'm not going anywhere yet! Thank again...Julie
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Unread 09-29-2013, 08:11 AM   #45
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Hi Julie, damn medical issues getting in the way of a November vacation. But at least you'll get it over with, right? Trying to look at some positive aspect...

Did you notice any difference in waiting 4 or 5 hours to take your Suboxone? If not, then maybe think about waiting until tomorrow morning to take it instead of today at 5 or 9, see if you can wait until tomorrow morning to take it. That way you added an extra 12 hours or so the waiting time. Or you can take it today, but spit it out (or wash it out with water) before it totally dissolves. Whatever you feel more comfortable doing.

If you wait until tomorrow morning to take it, then you could see if you can stretch that out until Tuesday evening, that way you'll have 36 hours between doses two days in a row. That gets you closer to every other day, just a little more slowly than jumping right into every other day. It seems when people start skipping days, after a little time, they really do start to forget it. From Sub-Zero's journal:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=19473
Quote:
Thursday morning I realized it had been 3 days since I took my 1mg dose that I had been taking every other day. I decided to not take it and see what happened. Today is the 5th day and so far so good.
Stacey (Post dated 6/15/07)
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=15081
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Stacey

I was on .5 for quite a while then went to .5 alt with .25---obviously these doses are impossible to do accurately so I just guessed and was not worried about the actual number. At the end of the day it really didnt matter, I was decreasing my dose and was very comfortable doing it. I then started doing every other day at about .25 or .5 and then at Christmas morning I realized it had been a few days since my last 'dust dose' and decided to continue with no sub. I'm still waiting for the withdralwal to start. It was easy. A little bit of sneezing but who knows?? It could have been allergies. I had restless legs for two evenings and that subsided. I used benadryl to help sleep. No problem. It's been more than six months now and life is good.
I like this one - kind of a 'mind over matter' jump:

Billyzack
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...=12821&page=17

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Billyzack

I haven't logged on to this site since quitting sub in January and if there is anyone that remembers me. I was going to try to go to 1 mg and off after that in January. I did go to 1 mg from 2 mgs with absolutely no problems and by pure accident, I dropped from 1 mg to nothing. My docgtor prescribed me some blood pressure medicine and the pills looked exactly like 2 mg subs, I thought I was taking 1 ms and was taking nothing. After a week, I realized what I had been doing and I felt great so I threw the sub away and have been fine since. Don't know if the placebo effect was in place but all I felt was a bit tired but no biggie. All in all, I went from being a 7 year hydro addict to 8 mg sub to nothing in about 60 days. I took percocet when I had some dental work last months for 3 days and have been fine since. I don't know where I would get opiates even if I was craving them so I soon forget about them when I begin to think about them. Sub was a good thing for me and it did what it was supposed to do, I never felt bad or had any problems getting off of it. Good luck everyone!
I'm glad you're sticking around. You're really helping a lot of people here and on the alcohol forum. That's appreciated by more people than you know!

(((hugs)))

Nancy
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Unread 09-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #46
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Hi Nancy: I know, damn medical issues, interfering with my vacation plans!! Yes, I'll just wait til tomorrow morning to take it, then again Tuesday night. Makes sense. Thanks. Hopefully that will work.

I don't mind helping on the alcohol forum. Although my DOC was cocaine back then, I did my share of drinking too. But all in all, addition is addiction is addiction. So I understand. And I figure I am studying the field of addiction/psychology along with being in recovery, so why not give back. The longer I am here, the more I see that there are only a few senior member who are on the forum regularly. So with that being said, I have changed my outlook and when in need I'll ask, but otherwise, I just want to be here for others, especially our new members.

In the meantime, I have my this thread that you so generously been replying to, and you are such a big help. I have fears and concerns, but I also have some strength, and helping others helps me....but you have been the greatest help to me. Because of you and your selflessness, I choose to stay and choose to help. Bless you and thanks again! You are still rockin' and rollin'. Julie
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Unread 09-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #47
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Hi Julie, yes, you're so right, addiction is addiction is addiction. You really have been there for others. Especially giving friends and family a perspective they probably haven't thought of when being so close to the situation. Thank you!!

How did it go yesterday? Were you able to wait until this morning to take the Suboxone? I hope so, that would be fabulous! Fingers crossed!!

Nancy
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Unread 09-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #48
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Thanks Nancy. Yes, some people do need to look at things from another perspective, as it can always be worse. And knowing it can get worse is an indicator it is time do something now, before the YETS occur. And eventually they will occur. I have hit every bottom known to man, except death, and death did come when I ended up on life support for 11 days. It came for a few minutes......Anyway, I am not doing so well on tapering under 1mg. Guess its not time yet. But I'll keep trying to spread the hours out until eventually it is. Thanks again...Julie
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Unread 10-01-2013, 12:56 PM   #49
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Hi Julie, you should be really proud of how far you've come and all the good you're doing now by helping people. You're a true testament that people can change their lives.

Maybe it's not time to get under 1mg. When do you go to your doctor again? Really think about asking for the 2mg pills or film. That will probably help and then you can cut down to .5 a lot easier - which might make it easier.

Hope you're having a great day!

Nancy
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Unread 10-01-2013, 08:22 PM   #50
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Thank you Nancy. It may not be time to go under 1mg, but I'll keep trying. You are right, people can change their lives, but the biggest thing is they must WANT to change their lives, with no excuses for past behavior excepted. Take responsibility and get on with it is what I had to do, and I had a lot to take responsibility for. Addiction has no prejudice. It will steal anyone's will without a fight......It is when the "poor me" attitudes end and the "why me" attitudes end that one can ask, why not me? The choices we make may be due to past trauma for many, but when someone is truly ready to change, they work through their issues, and learn to live addiction free. We can talk til we are blue in the face, and hopefully one thing said gets through, but at the end of the day, the choices lie within each and every member here. God bless and thanks. Julie
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