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Unread 12-10-2012, 11:39 PM   #1
theswan
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Smile chronic Pain and Buprenorphine

Hello to all "survivors"

I think this thread may be interesting and maybe useful.

My suboxone use started in 2008 in a NYC clinical trial at New York Psychairtric hospital/Columbia U. The trial was called basically: Suboxone for pain patients who sometimes take more opioid medication then prescribed. that title really caught my eye. I came upon it partly after trolling the internet under "safe narcotics" or safer narcotics and the like. I was praying there was a drug out there that could ease my suffering and not cause me to take massive amounts as tolarence buildt up.

I was very pleased with the results which was me getting suboxone outpatient 16 mg (A Kind psychiatrist matched on this site) After a year on I slowly and I mean slooowly tapered off (my taper is to be found here as well)
Well after a year off, my pain had overtaking my resolve to "bear it" I did try Ultram and tylenol etc to no avail. Mind you I had in my mind from day one tapered off that the chance of me going back on was there. Hence I had no great guilt but did have fears.
So, my pain doctor started me on a 5mcg patch and it did little so we upped it to 10 then 20(I believe but it was whatever is the max patch amount) I got relief but not enough so we went to the pill and that was 1mg a day then two then four until now I'm at 2mg QID (total of 8mg) After hip surgery I did go up to a total of 10 (more on some days but that I kept to myself) Now a few months away from the hip replacement, I'm back to 2mg QID

I'll share my feelings about it now in an open way. Yes I was scared. No, there was never a time when I was not going to go through with it. To be honest, I like the addictive person I am, "looked" for "effect" in other words, "Was I gonna get a mild buzz out of it" Mind you, on suboxone, I never really (well never is a big word maybe I did but cannot recall) felt any "buzz" just no more withdrawals and less pain.
So yes, the first 1/2mg I took not only gave me a buzz, but it was strong and not very pleasant. I cut to 1/4mg then slowly back up etc etc until my pain was controlled yet I was in control if you know what I mean.
Do I get a buzz still? (I believe this deserves consideration and must be talked about) Well my answer is a well qualified yes. Why the caveat? Well because it is not a buzz in the usual sense, just a happy feeling that my pain is numbed out and a sense of peace or well being that is not unlike a "pink cloud" one obtains in AA/NA after major ego deflation and acceptance of this deflation (taking back the ego sadly usually takes away the cloud)
The positive of using the buprenorphine (subutex written for pain now) besides pain control is: I need not take massive amounts and even if I run short which I did the month of post surgery pain, no withdrawal was present the couple of days without.

So, I remain not quite the perfect pain patient taking my medication to the letter (well now on I suppose I will since the post surgery pain is no longer an issue and I gave myself kinda cart blanc because of the degree of distress I was in) I may even take it early or later but the fact remains that I am in control rather then the drug controlling my behavior. I even had the thought about when we go away for long weekends. How I had to have enough medication and if not an entire trip could be cancelled, Now I thought the worse case would be if I forgot to take them with me but so what? as long as it was two days, I'd get by (that is a gift) Sure I'd have my pain issue but not pain with WD thrown in for good measure lol.

I hope others can share what they take and how it is working etc. I'd wish also if people could include how they feel about it all.

God bless All

Glen AKA The swan

Last edited by theswan; 12-10-2012 at 11:42 PM.. Reason: speeling lol
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Unread 12-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #2
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Hello Swan, thanks for sharing that.
Heres my deal. I have been on suboxone for over 4 yrs. I started sub after I tried numerous times to reduce the amount of OxyContin, percocet, vicoden(prescribed) I was taking. We all know that doesnt work. Anyways, started at a very high dose, 24mg, and after a year was at 2mg. Lots of personal tragedies happened during the next two years, along with 2 neck fusion surgeries, and here I am 4 yrs later now taking 2-3mg sub a day. I question myself if its my own addcitive personality telling me I need the suboxone for pain, and if I could just get pain relief from OTC drugs. Funny, I just wrote this stuff in my thread this morning before seeing your post.
so, I wonder if I need to check myself. I dont want to use excuses why I take suboxone after so long. It has been my safety net through many dark days, where if I didnt have it and was in active addiction I would have gone off the deep end, possibly be dead now. But, now, I need to really step inside myself and see the true answer to why Im so afraid to be off sub. Is it because I want my son to see I take it every day and he should to to be addiction free? Because that is wrong....he should want all this for himself. Is it because Im afraid of what I will "feel" like?? Ive been on medication, whether it be full agonists or partial agonists for over 12 yrs.....thats a real long time, and then to have NOTHING, well, I guess it freaks me out a little. Its like when I quit cigarettes, I am using replacement therapy for that...one of those vapor things where you still get THE DRUG, just not the harmful effects of the smoke, only vapor.
So, in essence, maybe Im doing the same thing with the sub as I am cigarettes, replacing something with something not to feel any discomfort.

when I had the surgery last itime I used some nubain, cause it worked with suboxone, and I did feel the buzz from it, and I wrote about the fact that I liked it. I didnt get all weird and keep asking for more, but I did say to the nurse "holy shit, are you sure you gave me Nubain?? cause I felt that, I feel stoned!" and she said, of course it was nubain, and showed me the vial. But, I guess I could have asked for it over and over and over and I didnt. I told them I was a recovering addict, and they were really cool with me. They appreicated the honesty and said so many drug seekers come through there every day and its heartbreaking. Soooo, here I am 5 months after the last surgery, and I want to see how it is to go back lower in my dose again.
Suboxone saved me, it has helped save my son, I am grateful for it. But I dont want to use it as my crutch anymore. I want to figure how to live life without anything, if I can.
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Unread 12-13-2012, 01:59 AM   #3
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Deanna,

What you say makes perfect sense. I believe you are earnest in wanting to get to zero. I also know that due to the trauma in your body in general, you may be a chronic pain patient for life.

My guess is part of these feelings have to do with you wanting to get to "square one" with not only being sub free but to be able to feel you pain in a fair way. A fair way of course being sans bupenorphine.
The above reason was a major reason for me to get off to zero. I hoped I'd be pain free or at least free enough to now need opioid medication. So as you know I tapered off and did a year without any narcotic medication however, the pain slowly became more and more of an issue and I went from tylenol, to ibuprofen, to tramadol and my next move as it always was in the past was, with tears in my eyes but hopeful, I'd go back to hydrocodone with the insane hope that it would be different.
This time however, things were way different! I knew I was safe on bupenorphine and it was a godsend of a safety net. The rest you know.

My thought for you is to take the plunge but have a safety net in place if it does not work. A "net" could be any number of things like saving pills to having an understanding doctor who will restart you on subutex if need be (you'r smart so you know how to do this) then do a crazy slow taper....
You have nothing to lose and if you fail, then that is ok too! No need to be hard about this. AA/NA has done so much good but we must accept the black and white "rules" as to who is sober is not one of their better tenets.

When you feel up to it, begin and if fear gets the better, pray and carry on. If pain gets worse, well then maybe that would be your body short stopping a long process that would eventually lead back to where you are

It is a win-win! I'd personally wait till the new year I mean do you need more stress?

Whatever you do, know this: You are a child of God worthy of His Love.

Glen

Last edited by theswan; 12-13-2012 at 02:01 AM.. Reason: speeling
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Unread 12-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #4
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Hi Deanna

I agree with Swan. Maybe try a super duper slow taper on minute drops in dose.

Dont forget that when you drop from 2mg it's a good idea, in my opinion, to look at percentages for the next drop. This is what my sub doctor told me yesterday now I'm coming down to 2mg. A ten percent, he and I think, is more comfortable than, say, going down fro 2 to 1.5 whick is 25%. Just a thought.

When I last tapered off, when really at the end I took ibuprofen for any headaches and this seemed to work very well for pain once off the opioids, also the chills you may get for a copuple of days.

Just a thought but do what's best for you and do not beat yourself up about being on the bup. you are on a low dose and at the end of the day it's a very good pain killer used by millions over the world. I personally believe that it probably the safest oipiod to use regularly for chronic pain.

Just wanted to give you my thinking.

Best wishes at this festive time. I hope you and family have a great xmas and I wish you a fantastic and happy new year.

Take care Deanna and I look forward to talking to you in the new year!!!!

Leo
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Unread 12-15-2012, 01:43 AM   #5
theswan
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I have been reading a thread lately and I Tim had said the "analgesic" dose of buprenorphine is very low: 02mg to 05mg and notice the pain patch is very low dose also.

This concerns me because both the patch and even 1mg or half a pill did not work as well for me as the current 2mg X four times a day. I wonder if having been so dependent on opioid medication and at one time being on as high as 16mg a day, plays into this. My concern is maybe my addictive nature just wants me to have more just like with any pill (I believe if one is good, two is better thinking)

Anyway, I did troll the web and it seems the "ceiling" can be as high as 14mg depending on the person but no more then 14mg-How they figure this is of interest to me.

I'm thinking as well that maybe I need to cut back and see if lower is better (that seems dumb because my current pain relief is excellent)

Maybe Nancy or Tim can offer additional information. I've been busy reading the post's by the fellow who was prescribed 16mg for a 5 vicodin a day user. The poor guy got a rough deal but instead of being angry (well maybe he is in addiction angry at bupe in general) At the doctor who put him on such a high dose, he rants against the "evils" of suboxone. (funny how controversy gets my attention lol)

Anyway, I'll keep taking my 2mg dose

Glen
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Unread 12-15-2012, 08:04 AM   #6
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Hi Glen, the ceiling is thought to average from 12mg to 16mg - one thing that makes it really difficult to pin down is that no one gets the same absorption from the medication. I haven't yet found information for the film:

•Absorption

...Buprenorphine is also readily absorbed following sublingual administration, with approximately 55% (range: 15–95%) of a dose absorbed systemically.


From: http://www.medscape.org/druginfo/mon...387004&secid=9

I'm not sure how they determined what the ceiling is. I looked around a bit, but couldn't find anything. I wonder if they compiled the doses of people during clinical trials and averaged it out that way?

The analgesic properties of bupe last from 4 to 6 hours - depending on the person and his/her pain. So with the patch, the doses could be that low because there's a constant flow of bupe into the person's system.

If you're interested, I found these - they did two studies for Butrans. One for opioid naive patients:
"Exclusion criteria included:
• Patients with a history of daily opioid use at a dose 5 mg oxycodone (or equivalent) per day over 3 months prior to screening for their chronic low back pain

http://butrans.com/pdf/BEC_OpioidNai...erview_PDF.pdf

One for "opioid experienced" patients:
"Inclusion criteria included:
• Male and female patients aged 18 years or older, with a clinical diagnosis of low back pain for ≥3 months confirmed by radiographic evidence (with or without pain radiating to the lower extremities) related to conditions such as intervertebral disc disease, nerve root entrapment, spondylolisthesis, osteoarthritis or other similar nonmalignant conditions and willing to:
• Discontinue their current opioid analgesic regimen – The most commonly observed opioid medication used by subjects entering the study were hydrocodone medications
• (62%), followed by oxycodone medications (21%), and propoxyphene medications (12%) Adjust the dose of their nonopioid analgesic regimen
• Patients meeting the above criteria and taking between 30 mg and 80 mg of oral morphine sulfate or equivalent per day, at least 4 days a week, for at least 30 days prior to screening

Exclusion criteria included:
• Patients using fentanyl transdermal system or extended-release hydromorphone for pain control
• Subjects taking more than 80 mg/day of oral morphine sulfate or equivalent within 30 days of screening
• Patients requiring frequent analgesic therapy for other chronic conditions
"
http://butrans.com/pdf/BEC_OpioidExp...erview_PDF.pdf


Glen, I don't know, but if your pain relief is excellent now, why change anything? But if you're curious, one day you could try and see if 1mg 4x a day would make any difference. The thing about seeing if a lower dose will work for pain is that the halflife doesn't have any play in it because the analegic relief is only 4 to 6 hours, but the bupe remains in your system for that long halflife. So you'd find out rather quickly if 1mg will work for you.

Not sure if that helped, let us know if you think you'll try and reduce.

Nancy
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Unread 12-15-2012, 08:42 AM   #7
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Hi Glen

I, too have been reading that poor man's ordeal. Took me quite a while as it turned into quite a bit of a debate! Wont say much here as I wrote on that thread. Suffice to say he really got a raw deal and should have been given a low dose of this med and not a 'drug addiction' dose. They, in my opinion (and many pain doctors over here in the uk, and I guess in Europe where it's prescribed in .2 and .4 tablets for pain and written microgramdoses), should have started on, say .2 (200 micrograms) and titrated up from there. For what he was dependant on I bet .4mg - .6mg would have been sufficient to alieviate that mans withdrawals. Even .2mg of this stuff is a bloomin strong dose. An extremely strong and potent narcotic analgesic that has been shown to, even at doses from .2mg, provide excellent pain relief for opiate niaive patients who suffer from pains such as even cancer pain.

It's very good also because of the long half life. Patients can have a greater control of this med and dont have to worry about suddenly going into withdrawals if they cannot have their meds for a while, unlike the stuff with a short half life which can bring on withdrawal, and hence pain in pain feeling patients, very quickly.

Glen. Personally, I think a very slow taper is good for the body and you may find that a very very slow taper down may help you. You may well find it still helps with your particular pain issues as less can be more, though I know we are all different in our ability to deal with pain.

Pain, as I'm sure you know, is inherant in life and can even be neccessary for learning. We annoy a wasp, it sting us so we learn about wasps and what they can do by the pain we feel.

That, I guess, is what makes it so difficult for someone to know whether they are feeling pain because of withdrawals, or from the emotional and physical strains of every day life, or injury type acute or chronic pains. So difficult for us addicts who have been regularly killing both emotional and/or physical pain during our active addiction and indeed probably before the addiction took hold.

When I say 'killing' pain, this is probably the wrong word, and much too simplistic, when it comes to my own personal point of view because I realise now that I have not actually been killing my (emotional in my case) pain at all. Just pushing (and pushing and pushing....) it to the back of my mind, out of my conscious attention, with drugs. So when I come to deal with it, when the drugs go, the original pain is still there and now, without lots of drugs, it can all come into my concious attention very well without the drugs. WHAM BAM; aaarrgghh ! All the pain I've pushed away coming back and at once. Hence, many timers greater than if I had just dealt with the friggin pain in the first place!

For me, in the beginning, when the drugs went it was somewhat like a tsunami of all my pushed away pain returning, as it must, just like a real tsunami of water must return if it's been pulled back into a mass of water. The water left the beach and it went very shallow. But it had to return at some point.

Withdrawal from a strong narcotic pain reliever will produce all numbers of pains and feelings of discomfort both physical and mental and it, I imagine, will be very hard to descifer what is withdrawal pain from what is physical/emotional pain one gets during the normal course of ones life. So hard being a sentient being sometimes , especially where pain (and addiction) is concerned.

Whatever, Glen, in Europe a dose of buprenorphine for analgesic purposes will be roughly in the 200 to 400 (.2mg - .4mg) microgram area. Of course it may be more or less and I'm not a doctor, but it will be titrated in micrograms because when it was invented it was found to be effective in those sorts of doses/weights.
It was only when people became interested in the effectiveness of this drug for opiate dependant people that it was realised they needed relatively high doses to achieve relief from withdrawal from other strong narcotics. That guy on the thread who was debating with you who said buprenorphine is around 40 times stronger than morphine was absolutely right when it comes to pain killing.

Many writings I have read on this subject seem to refer always to 'high dose' buprenorphine for opiate withdrawal relief and maintenance. Obviously this was/is due to the fact that it takes much more of the stuff to hold a druggie from withdrawal than for a 'normal' person/patient to find relief from their sufferings. I mean, 2 milligrams is soooooo small right? It's so easy to phsychologically view such a small weight (and such a small tablet) as not going to be that powerful and so therefore ""let's just have another little bit/pill cos it wont hurt right?"" Wrong. I've even come accross some doctors who think in this way. When we say less is more we say it from a milligram point of view. When taken from a microgram point of view if we start on 200micrograms for our pain and then up it, say, to 400micrograms then we come back to the more realistic saying, ie more is truelly more.

Sorry to waffle but I guess for you Glen, very small reductions would be the best order of things bup related for your good self.

Good luck in that. Best wishes and regards

Leo
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Unread 12-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #8
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Thanks to both

Gotta run but wanted you to give my thanks for now

Glen
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Unread 12-15-2012, 02:46 PM   #9
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Well Ive got to be honest if I thought that I could have my Suboxone and the doctors bill paid for every month with insurance, I would probably use Suboxone as a crutch as well. It is bad to admit but I know that it keeps me clean,keeps me from using a massive amount of man made nasty crap...I went in to the ER while on Sub treatment and they asked me if I needed anything for pain and I laughed and told them there aint nothing in the cabinet that is going to bust through the Suboxone in my system. This was back about in August I think. I had gotten the flu and had real bad body aches and a headache. They kept asking me if I needed something for pain. When they would leave the room, I just looked over at Mom and said DO NOT LET THEM GIVE ME ANYTHING...What I meant was if I was laying there asleep and they came in and tried to give me through an IV..I know how you feel completely, tapering sounds like a long slow process but I think we should all feel better knowing that if its affordable and we can handle that slow process,its better than what I messed up and did. I should not have went to the doctor and asked for Tramadols and klonipin's. THat was a huge boo boo, I wont make that mistake again, I went through all that sickness and pain for a reason. I learned alot from that mistake,things that I already knew but figured that I had control over. That is the main thing that we should all learn from this experience if nothing else, control is not something that we have all the time even if we feel that we do.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 12:41 AM   #10
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Asouth, I believed like you that bupe is so strong it would not allow additional opioid med's to work-I was wrong. I had hip replacement in September and after a whole lot of doing the wrong thing, my pain doctor was consulted and he said that larger then usual doses would breakthrough the pain (I was still hurting a lot post surgery) They should hae tried higher subutex doses first (I believe because a few days later at home I quit the hydromorphone and took extra subutex) They gave me a patient controled analegisic and high dose of Dilaudid (hydromorphone)

In several minutes after a bolus of the hydro, I was at rest and comfortable (my pulse was an amazing 150 plus due to the intense pain) and my pulse was 78

So, yes if need be they can control even post surgery pain with additional narcotics

Yes, since I do not pay for my treatment I am lucky and have the option of long term use and I may have to-Time will tell. My plan is to slowly reduce but even if I do not, I'm not too concerned

Glen
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Unread 12-16-2012, 12:54 AM   #11
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Oh well I wasnt thinking about the big ones like Dilaudid. Shoot hun, I had two shots of that after they removed a pilonidal cyst from my buttocks. The first shot didnt do much, the second shot I was floating on cloud nine. I used to abuse Dilaudid back in the day, but back then when I was doing that stuff to me taking a half of a 4mg pill was too much. I could take half of one of those and be FINE all day long. I figured that maybe Dilaudid or something like Morphine in high doses would bust through but there is only so much Morphine one can handle I think before you stop breathing. My husbands mother was on Dilaudid back in the day before she got really bad sick, and she would give you one if you had bad toothaches or menstrual cramps because she never took her pain medication. I know its not right but back then which was about five years ago, none of us cared because we all just stayed high alot. Well to me that was high,which was before I got started on the Tramadol's and taking those like candy.
My husband doesnt want me on Suboxone long term and I dont really want to be on it for the rest of my life. It might be a little different if I wasnt paying through the nose for a doctor bill and meds. Then again, it would be nice if I could stay on a small dose only get a few each month but I dont want to hang onto it the rest of my life like I said before. Its a hard decision because I just have so much energy and motivation when Im on it. Not sure why, it just helps me alot.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 08:06 AM   #12
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Hi asouth32, here's a link that has information on how to treat patients who need full agonists while on Suboxone.
http://www.naabt.org/emergency/

http://pcssb.org/wp-content/uploads/...e-naloxone.pdf

If someone has planned surgery, the protocol is to taper down and then stop Suboxone a day or two ahead of time. Pain meds will then be administered under supervision and titrated up until there is pain relief. Like they did with Glen. Others switched to full agonists a week or two prior to the surgery, used them after the surgery and restarted Suboxone when they no longer needed full agonist pain relief.

Then there's people like Deanna who never used full agonists. She had spinal fusion surgery twice and stayed on Suboxone and had Toradol along with increasing her Suboxone to a small dose every 4 to 6 hours.

If you don't have an emergency medical card in your wallet, you might think of getting one. You can request one here:
https://www.naabt.org/contact_us.cfm
Or there's one in the free resource kit:
https://www.naabt.org/resource_kit/index.cfm

Nancy
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Unread 12-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #13
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I put in for the resource kit, I had one back when I first started treatment but when we moved the house around and changed living rooms I cant find it anymore. I figure instead of me turning the house upside down,just put in for another one. Yall would think we are silly the way our house is set up. Our living room is basically a couch with a chair and a table with a lamp on it and the bigger dog cage. Our "ACTUAL" living room is the bedroom with my chair, the bed and our computers and the TV in it. We live in the bedroom so to speak because its a smaller room and easier to heat etc.But back to the matter at hand, I find honestly if I have to get anything done like that I would probably just stay on Suboxone throughout the process and just take it every 4 to 6 hours like if i was on something else. I really dont even like the thought of taking something else, the only reason that I did it while I was sick was to keep from being so restless and fidgety and hoping that it would calm the diarrhea down lol. I think if it was very serious like Spinal Fusion, I would probably have to talk to the doctors and see what they thought would be best, but there again most not all but most doctors would probably want to write you something.
I guess it all depends on the persons pain tolerance, but when I thought about that I happen to think how big of a wimp that I am. I am a pushover when it comes to pain tolerance. I commend the ones of you that can handle alot of pain, I wish that I was the same. If I have a TMJ flareup, all I can do is set and scream. Yes, I have had it so bad that all I could do was hold the sides of my face and scream with tears running down my face. I can remember back before we moved to where we are now, I had a flareup and I got my husband to drive me to my mothers to get a handful of Tramadol's. She never took them, and basically got them filled for me. (Yeah I know.)I am seeing throughout my addiction basically who was enabling me and didnt ever really know it. But when I got to Mom's, I came in the house and laid down on the couch. She grabbed the bottle and a ziploc bag, threw a bunch in it and helped me get back to the car. The thing is, they helped a little but nothing really all that much. It basically took the edge off. I havent (knock on wood) had a flare up in about 2 years. The last time that I can remember having a flareup was when we had just gotten Sylar, had this puppy to take care of and just hurt so bad the whole day.
But there again, when I think of chronic pain I dont think of TMJ or things like that. I think of post surgery or people with pain from cancer or something like that. Although as wimpy as I am at times, I have thought that I was dying. Well off to watch a movie with the husband since he starts work tomorrow. Going to be odd him not being here with me all day, hes been here with me day in and out for awhile now, gotten real used to having him here.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #14
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Thanks Leo, and Glen for the posts. I just now got to read them after all this time. I hope you have a great holiday!!
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Unread 12-26-2012, 03:47 AM   #15
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Hi To you all and Happy New Year

My wife joined us for midnight service and we really loved it. The choir allows her to join even though she is not a member which is nice of them. We sang next to each other and swayed together during some of the songs. It was a really nice service and I taped it and was able to hear the choir on tape and we sounded very good.

My pain is still with me even though the hip pain is mostly gone and I'm a little frustrated. My doctor suggested I cut down and I did by one pill a day. I do not feel that the cut down is going so well. I may ask to go back to 5 a day but really am not ready to "do battle" in defending how much works for me. (I was at 2mg 5X a day and am now at 2mg 4X a day and the 5X was just better) I suppose I just became used to the higher dose. Anyway, I hope I'm able to speak up for myself because I have the fear in the back of my mind that I'm being "judged" and the doctor will say something along the lines of 'You are taking more then any other patient" or 'even 4X a day is too much'

Wish I was not so wishy washy on this but I suppose it comes from when I was dependant and doctor shopped etc.

Anyway happy holidays to all

Glen
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Unread 12-26-2012, 07:34 AM   #16
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Hi Glen, sounds like a wonderful midnight service for you and your wife. That's really nice she could stand with you and sway and sing together.

How is the 2mg 5x a day working better for you? Maybe if you could explain that to your doctor, it would help? Like, do you have more consistent, continuous pain relief at 5x a day but at 4x a day, you are having more pain at the fringes of the 4 to 6 hour mark? Maybe if you could explain it to your doctor in a pain relief sense or even a pain relief scale, do you think that might help? Have you tried going to 1.5 or 1mg for any of the times you take it - that might be helpful when you talk with your doctor because it will reinforce to him that it is the 2mg that gives you optimal relief. And at that point, why mess with it if it's working for you. Just a couple of thoughts I wanted to throw out there.

Wishing you and Mrs. da Swan a very happy, healthy New Year!

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Unread 12-27-2012, 05:26 AM   #17
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Thanks Nancy

Yes I need to be more clear about it. Fact is sometimes after an hour of taking a pill at 2mg, if my pain is still causing me distress. I'll take a second and it works well. I'd rather not open a can of worms by telling him that even though I did when I first took a "whole" pill of 2mg when I was on half a pill Q6 hours. He did not seem to mind and when I went to the 2mg dose he was ok.

What happened was after the hip surgery I asked if I can take 6 a day because of the severity of the post surgery pain (I told him I'd go back down the next month and I went to 5 a day now back to the original) Thing is, I get by fine on the 5 a day but 4 seems not quite enough even though the acute hip pain is gone. I am out of bed now and in pain perhaps due to the weather. Turning from side to side is required because of pain but the dynamics of turning cause even more pain then just laying on the affected side!

Cannot take a pill because then I'd be short since I'm at 4 a day again.

So, I'll explain it best by saying that I need the benefit of round the clock dosing and 4 MAY do the job but oft times I need the 5th (like now lol)

I think somehow he minimizes my discomfort because I'm in a good mood and now do not limp as dramatically as I did pre new hip. We hardly even discuss my pain but talk about his home in Egypt or food and or sports. I just briefly tell him I still need the pills and the time before this (at 5 a day) he said "you need to cut down" So, I told him 4 a day would be ok (because he told me to cut down)

Anyway, back to bed now

Glen
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Unread 12-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #18
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Uh oh!

I am in trouble. I have been growing concerned because I can not get out of bed mornings. I missed a choir gig two Sundays ago and may miss tomorrow. I feel out of it until around 10:30 to 11. This may be my depression because I also have no real drive to do things most of the time. Fishing has been only 3 times this past summer and fall and I hardly practice my voice except at my monthly coaching lessons and choir practice weekly-I feel a bit like a hermit except when I travel to see my wife or she to see me-(its like I have purpose)

lastly and most scary is, I am running short of subutex for the 2nd or third time. The doctor had me reduce even though I felt that 5 a day worked and 6 worked best (I'm scared me is going to find a way to get me to stop if I become insistent.

I will get by with less pills (January 7th next Monday I get a new script and have enough for like 2 a day until then)

I just feel when I'm hurting it is ok to take a pill even if I had my 4 pill limit. So it scares me and the not waking up and depression scares me. I feel I am taking enough because my eyes are near pinned.

I blamed depression and anxiety on the bupe before so I kinda want to rule that out before going off the medication (I'm starting to think maybe the patch will work because of my lack of control)

I have tried 1mg but it is not effective so now my nature is to say screw it and taper off because I do not need the depression (but what if it is not related to the subutex? auugh!)

Sorry i'm rambling but I am scared and just as scared to ask the doctor to go back to 5 or 6 a day

Maybe Nancy or someone looking on objectively can offer suggestions

Glen
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Unread 12-30-2012, 08:45 AM   #19
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Hi Glen, sorry to hear about your depression. Sounds like it's been going on for a while if you're talking about not fishing this past summer? Do you think it could be something more than the bupe - have you been diagnosed/treated for depression before?

With bupe, in general, people can feel depression when their dose is too high. Is there anything else you can take instead of bupe that might help your pain - tylenol or something if it's not too bad to see if reducing your dose would help? Maybe your doctor can recommend something else instead/in addition for you to try so you can see if reducing the bupe would help your depression.

Or would you need an anti-depressant/treatment for depression?

I hope you can figure this out. Depression is nothing to mess around with.

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Unread 12-30-2012, 08:46 AM   #20
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Awake now at 7:06 am and better not go to sleep again or risk missing a choir gig for the Mass of the Holy family

Massive sweating from my scalp again. Not sure if buprenorphine is to blame because I overate carbs last night ( another sign of depression)

I think forcing myself to get out of bed may be in order. As for my bupe use, after a few hours of sleep, my thoughts seem to go toward not making any changes. I'll suck it up and just reduce (this I've done for a couple of days already) my dose to get through and then stay the course at 2mg QID at least until the days get a lot longer and my depression such as it is lessens ( I also have not spoken about my going off the prozac which has been about a week now after a slow taper because it did not seem to do anything except lower my libido even worse then it already was)

Ok, well maybe later my tune will change.

God bless

G
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Unread 12-30-2012, 08:57 AM   #21
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Hi Glen, I guess we posted at about the same time. Maybe you need a different anti-depressant if it's not related to you going off of the prozac. Wellbutrin is not supposed to affect libido. Could be something to see if it works for you?

Sweating can also be a sign that your bupe dose could be too high.

You mentioned waiting for the days to get longer - have you had your Vitamin D checked lately? Because of the lack of daylight and the cold - we don't get as much natural Vitamin D as we do in the summer and that could be adding to the depression.

Force yourself out of bed and go sing!

Check in with us later, ok?

Nancy
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Unread 12-30-2012, 09:09 AM   #22
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Hi Glen a belated merry xmas and an early Happy New Year.

Sorry to hear of your woes. Cannot offer much in the way of advice except to say I too take prozac for depression and have for years. Although, cos of the half life, being off a week should make little difference there may be some rebound depression as you have been slowly tapering off. Dont blame you for trying though cos I wanna do this when I taper from the subutex.

The other thing is; If I remember one of your previous posts correctly, I seem to remember you mentioning that you tend to suffer the "winter blues". Think you mentioned about the sun changing on it's axis and starting getting close to us (thank F*** - my expletive). I think you also said that you find that things usually start feeling better for you when we begin to actually notice the longer, and continuelly lengthening, days? Just a thought.

Go SING my friend you will feel much better cos you've written about this in the past too. I started my first choir session last month and loved it. Felt so good. Cant wait for the new term that we begin in mid June. Here's to longer days ahead. Alleh bloody luya!!.

God Bless

Leo

ps. Personally I find Ibuprofen good for pain.
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Unread 12-30-2012, 10:08 AM   #23
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Hi Glen. As you know, I have been taking sub for pain also, But when I do I take 2mg in the morning and then if I have more pain that day I take another mg. I then take meloxicam or aleve or tylenol if I need to. I think if your eyes are pinned it means you have too much sub in your system, doesnt it? Idk, I know your pupils are a little smaller while on the medication, but I dont think they should be actually "pinned". Nancy??

I think you should talk to your doctor about the depression issue, you may be trying to use more suboxone to feel "better". I have done this twice now, so thats why Im saying it. I just cant see how 10-12mg is going to be helpful to you after you were off suboxone completely. I dont want you to get in the habit of taking it 5 times a day like you would regular narcs. You know what I mean? Its just the same as taking percocet or any of those when you think "a couple more hours and Ill take more"
Have you ever tried cymbalta? that works for all over pain and depression. Are you seeing a specialist at a pain clinic? Maybe that would help. I dont know, depression can cause pain, and it seems to me by your posts that you are having depression. . .
You would probably feel better if you had less bupe in your system. I picture myself taking 10-12mg a day and I think it would make me sick after all this time. I know we are two different people, but you know what Im saying.
well, good luck Glen, after all youve been through, I hate to see you go backwards. .take care..
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Unread 12-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #24
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Thanks Nancy

Glad I forced myself to get out of bed to sing today. We did Mozart's Alelulia Exhaultate Which I just love doing and "Still, Still,still" which is like a German lullaby.

Depression me? lol (not that it is something to laugh at but I do suffer major depression with remissions that last a while so I often forget I have it)

Wellbutrin has been a great help and I've had "Trans-cutaneous direct electrical stimulation" in a long clinical trial. It helped also. I did go off my prozac but was on only a few months but it did little and worsened my libido.

So, yes it is hard to know exactly what is going on. As per the pain, I feel 2mg Q4 hours works best but paradoxically, it seems to at the same time be too high.

Maybe the patch and one 2mg pill a day to be broken into 1mg for a twice a day breakthrough regimen will work. I'll chat with doc if I choose to not wait until the seasonal affective disorder part of my depression lightens up and then see where I'm at.

Thanks for taking time

Glen

PS yes the vit D issue may play a part because I am a sun lover and get plenty in the summer-maybe a suppliment may help

Last edited by theswan; 12-30-2012 at 12:54 PM.. Reason: PS
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Unread 12-30-2012, 07:21 PM   #25
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I checked google images to see if my eyes are pinned or not. My baseline without an opioid is rather small to begin with.

The images were so widely varied that I can say I fit maybe in the bottom third of the Miotic photos they showed.

Anyway, I'll have to cut to 2 pills a day and maybe even one for a day or two if my math is correct so, I'll carry one with ibuprofen and tylenol as an adjunct. I use them both now but not on a regular basis.

So between now and Monday next, I'll go back and forth as to my next move. The safe move right now seems to be stay at 2mg times 4 a day and be careful not to go over this go around. Then, I'll see where my depression is going. Yeah Cymbalta is a thought. My only worry is the severe effect thay have on an already fragile libido.

Cymbalta may help with my "overall" pain condition-Yes the back and knee are the more acute source of pain but I also have a "difuse" layer of pain throughout my body. (shoulders, neck and most all joints except ankles but including some fingers and for sure, my thumbs)

Pain can follow depression and of course vice versa so it behooves me to work on the two conditions.

Happy New Year my friends

Glen
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Unread 01-01-2013, 11:13 PM   #26
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Happy New year! (for the last time, this year anyway)

I have reduced and today only took a total of 4mg (two tablets) I do not want to sound obsessed about my pupil size but I checked this evening and they are as normal as I can remember. This means yesterday they were more constricted although not greatly so.

I still am not sure what I want to do for pain management and am annoyed at myself that it is even an issue. However, a thought came to me. I believe the subutex provides differing amounts of analgesia depending on absorption. If I take it in bed first thing in the morning which I seem to do about 50% of the time, my mouth is kinda dry and the subutex sits there much longer. If on the other hand I have for lack of a better description, a "juicy" mouth; It dissolves much faster hence less absorption (maybe because a lot of saliva is swallowed)
The "upshoot" of this is my pain is well relieved or not so well relieved. So, my thought is this: Maybe a 20mcg patch with one or two pills set aside for "as needed" this will address two issues at one time. First off, I'll have a "quick fix" having the pill form in case the absorption rate takes too much time to begin saving me from unwanted WD symptoms. Second, my guess is the 20mcg will not be adequate to control the pain since it was not working well when I was on it before.
Then again, maybe an additional patch of 5-10mcg may work. I do not like having to take the pills since my pain is usually 24/7 with some periods of remission. This remission includes when i'm distracted by being busy (if it is "enjoyable" busy lol) and of course a few hours when sleeping (sadly it wakes me off and on and sometimes force's me to get up.) The other thing is, if I can eventually just wear the patch, it will be a "set it and forget it!" deal, you know what I mean, once a week I apply and that's that!

My pain level has been pretty high today. It feels weather related but usually that is because a low pressure system is moving in rapidly. (my guess as to why people with chronic pain and arthritits and injury feel this weather related pain is due to air pressure variations particulary fast ones. What I think happens is a high pressure system is exerting force much like a "body ace bandage" and when the low pressure comes in, it is like yanking off the bandage and the blood flowing back into the injured area) While I may be completely wrong in theory, the fact that it occurs is not in doubt.

Wow I wrote a lot! Have a good night all!

Glen
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Unread 01-02-2013, 08:37 AM   #27
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Hi Glen, happy new year.

The patch sounds like a good plan to try, but, what about the adhesive - weren't you allergic to it when you tried it the last time? Do you know any way around it or if there's something you can do to combat that? It would be great if you could give it another try without that adhesive discomfort.

Nancy
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Unread 01-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #28
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You have a good memory.You remind me of my wife Sally (Kitty) Sally can tell you things like what movie we watched on what date from years ago. Amazing to me because I can hardly know what day it is without thinking a few moments.

Yes, I went back and read my taper story (Swan song) and saw I had allergic issues with it. It was not too bad as I remember it involved tiny blisters that looked almost like tiny, tiny sweat dropplets. I had this with other patchs and the main reason I believe is due to my severe sweating issue. One of my doctors (not my main one Dr. Elbaz) suggested this thin skin like covering that kept water out. The name I do not remember but it has "Derm" in the name-like "Duraderm" or the like..

I believe it helped but I was rather curious about taking the pill form as I was not getting a lot of relief at that time. I have to also note that because of the "sweaty itch" problem, I often took it off and replaced it several times a day in fact, I had a bunch of semi-used ones all over the place. They were on the side table next to the bed and in various desk drawers but I threw them out a few weeks ago.

I think it is worth a try if the doctor agrees then I'll go along with it. Today I took my 2mg dose and will not take another one so I will have enough. I took it an hour ago and it was a "fast melt" I had a yogurt smoothie before hand. (By the way, I've lost 25 pounds with my shake/smoothie plan) I mix 1% milk (tried skim but it was awful) whole milk or low fat yogurt (again the non fat was horrible the fat adds so much flavor or release's flavor) berries and stevia. I add some whole grain mix that is mostly flax, then quiona, whole wheat, oats and I think rye is in it too. (just a table spoon or slightly more) and I run it through the blender a few seconds and wow! It is low calorie but tastes better then the best shakes I've had. I guess because I use a lot of raspberry and blueberry's

I'll update after we decide what way to go which may just be staying at 2mg QID at wait out this SAD cycle (days are getting longer yea)

Glen
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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:27 AM   #29
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Hi Glen, sorry its taken me so long to write back. I had once mentioned to my doctor about switching over to the patch, but the fact that I was on 2mg of suboxone prevented me from doing that because I said to him why dont I take 2mg and also the highest patch for a while and then wean down to just the patch. He said to me that you cannot have both. The patch is only for pain, and the pills only for opioid dependence in the DEAs eyes. So you cannot prescribe both at the same time. I dont know if this is still true, but this was 2010 when I had my first neck fusion surgery. Thought Id let you know about that.
Im glad you were able to take less and do good. And Im glad you understood my post to be only helpful and not rude or condescending to you.
Also, with the SAD syndrome, why dont you get one of those lights they sell for that? I just watched a show with the light and they even say its good for your pets too in the winter. Helps with depression a whole bunch.
Hope to hear more good news
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Unread 01-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #30
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Deanna

Doctors can prescribe both using the pill form for breakthrough. Subutex can be prescribed off label for pain and the Bupsan is approved for pain (the only buprenorphine available for pain only)
Anyway, I'm going to wait because I had a setback of sorts.

Wednesday night around 9 PM I felt a little dizzy kinda all of a sudden. I felt weaker and weaker and went to bed because I felt nauseous. I got real sleepy and had to vomit real badly (I had a bucket near the bed from the hip surgery to avoid walking to the bathroom through the night) lucky I had it because I had an explosive emesis and it kept up all night until 7AM and then afterwards I just retched.

I made a doctors appointment and still felt sick Friday when I got there but the nausea was mostly gone. I felt queezy and the RN took my pulse and ran and got the EKG machine...

I was scared because I had tried and could not get my pulse because it was so fast. Turns out it was 163. Oh, I also had a toothache besides so I was real miserable.
Doctor wrote for Inderal a beta blocker that worked well for me except that i saw things at bedtime after awakening (like 2am or later, mild hallucinations but not scary) I did not care and filled the 'script-My pulse slowed to 80 and slowly I'm feeling better. My doctor wanted me to go to the ER because they could lower the pulse more rapidly. Anyway, I took half a tab as suggested today and my pulse is normal to low (well low for me who runs 96-100 anyway)

Not sure why I was so sick the good news is I'm getting better but I may have to stay on the beta blocker. I prefer the inderal because I do not feel dizzy as I do on the other beta a calcium channel blockers.

I have lost 25 pounds and feel better overall but I am considered "obese' at 270 (to see me one would think "big brawny" before "fatty" Sadly my center of weight is the belly and that is the bad area plus I have the diaginal lines in the earlobes-all point to possible future heart issues.

I had a stress test and echo workup a year and a half ago and everything was A-OK and my blood pressure over time is on the normal to low side (while recovering from hip surgery, I was 116/70 much of the time but get "whitecoat hypertension" often)

I'll just leave it be for this month and maybe change next

Glen

Last edited by theswan; 01-05-2013 at 05:21 PM.. Reason: speeling
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Unread 01-06-2013, 05:54 AM   #31
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Hey Glen,

Just a brief note to say...

While I know we share many similar moral (and political) thoughts 'n feelings, I was surprised (amused/interested?) to see we even get sick similarly.

On that SAME night that you got ill, I ALSO felt nausea and weakness and the crummy all over feeling...AND also, like you, suffered a freakin wicked, explosive attack of emesis...along with other delightful stomach distress.

Mine, I think, came from something I ate...so our illness wasn't exactly the same. Anyway. I just thought, my, how coincidental.

I wonder if OMike got sick that night, too? HaHa, just kidding.

Glad you're feeling better.

best,

sam b
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Unread 01-06-2013, 09:25 AM   #32
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Hello Glen, sorry to hear you got so sick. I wonder if you had the flu and it made other stuff happen? Idk, but that sucks. Yes, I know the patch is approved for pain, but I didnt know about subutex being off label for pain. But my question to my doctor was about suboxone, I didnt even think about subutex. He just told me he cannot prescribe both the patch and suboxone together, only one or the other and I would have to get way below 2mg in order to switch to the patch with no withdrawal symptoms. But, anyways, glad you are feeling better
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Unread 01-06-2013, 10:15 AM   #33
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Deanna

Yes, the doctor must be right. I forget you said suboxone as I am so used to having the subutex. I find it melts faster and has less nasty taste as well.

Ohio Mike is on my ignore list at least for a while. I really need to step back from the left wing-right wing banter. A good buddy, Ralph told me a few years ago to stop watching the news if it got me upset-such a novel idea and it worked! I did not watch for over a year and was doing great. the gym at 24/7 news on and then AOL and Yahoo show news 24/7 and it slowly got back into my life along with it's stress (not to mention Facebook)

My pulse is slow to normal and I took half a pill twice. Not sure if I should wait until it gets fast or not. I almost passed out when I arose yesterday from a prone position making me guess othrostatic hypotension.

Still queasy but no emesis.

Glen
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Unread 01-06-2013, 10:56 AM   #34
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Hi Glen and Deanna, any doctor can prescribe Suboxone or generic -tex off label for pain. It is illegal to prescribe the patch for addiction because the law (DATA2000) specifically says the only bupe products for addiction are -one and -tex (now generic).

I don't know about legality/illegality of prescribing both at the same time - even one for addiction and then the patch for pain. But it could put up red flags to a pharmacist or if there's a prescription monitoring program in the state maybe?

Glen, good to hear that the vomiting stopped. Make sure you're staying hydrated, vomiting can cause dehydration. There are a lot of bad colds and flus going around here, hopefully that's what it was and it's working it's way out.

Congrats on the 25 pounds! That's fabulous! Those shakes you're making sound really good.

Fingers crossed you feel 100% quickly.

Nancy
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Unread 01-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #35
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Thanks Nancy

Yeah I'm trying to drink water and iced tea but get a little queasy. The doctor suggested I go to the ER because my mouth was so dry and my pulse so high. They could have hooked me up to an IV but I think I'm ok now.

My pulse is slow and for some reason hard to take. I used to have a lively strong pulse now it is hard to detect. I am going to find a cardiologist who specialize's in tachy. I do not like the feeling Inderal gives me but remember I did get used to it

Glen
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Unread 01-07-2013, 11:54 AM   #36
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Hi Glen, how are you today? Let us know when you have a minute. Hope you're feeling better.

Nancy
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Unread 01-08-2013, 12:21 AM   #37
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Doing much better today. My hip pain for some reason (not sure if it is the hip because it also feels like sciatica) flared up so bad I had a hard time walking. It still hurts a bit but the bupe is doing a decent job of tamping it down.

Saw my doctor and he asked "How many this time, 120?" It seemed almost funny. He did ask how I was doing but no real exam. He does an exam once in a while and he takes his time but I suppose for "medication management" he has no need to do much other then ask questions. Anyway, I say yes I'll stay at 4 a day because the winter can be brutal on the back. I said maybe next month, I'll get down to 3 day whcih is a good plan because of my next thought...

I told him about the absorption issue (wet mouth with lots of saliva makes for a faster "melt" and maybe less getting into the system.) He agreed and I told him my plan down the road was to get back on the patch which we'll discuss another time. Then we talked about fishing the Nile river (his home country is Egypt), soccer and bike riding then, the weather Lol

My concern with the patch is breakthrough and it not being an adequate dose but I feel he will work with me when I get to that point.

My heart rate has been OK and I take only half a pill of Inderal and at night, only one quarter. I will make an appointment next week to see a cardiologist but I need one that specialize's in tachycardia because my heart is fine; It's the "fireing" of my natural pacemaker that is the problem. I know it can be fixed with minor surgery but I'll see what they say.

Thanks for asking

Glen
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Unread 01-10-2013, 12:33 AM   #38
theswan
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I had missed a dose for a long time, that is why I hurt so bad! (duh!) I had been cutting down and was at 2mg for a couple of days then the last two days I took only 1mg (a half tab)

I had went from 5 a day down to 4 a day but had taken 5 a day on the 4 a day script (if you can follow that Lol) In other words I left myself short because I was not really ready to go down to 4 a day.

Anyway, Yesterday I took 3 pills and today 4 pills.

The hip pain was a reminder of just how good an analgesic bupernorphine is.

Now my cold/flu whatever, is slowy getting better but I developed yet another UTI Funny thing is I am on Bactrim for folliculititis (each time I go off, it returns worse so the doctor keeps me on.)

I may need a second one now. Traveling is tough because the urge to go comes on so fast. To make it worse, when you go, it is a few drops. Auugh! At least it is not painful like some of them are.

Woe is me! (not really this is just a safe place to air thoughts you;d rather not bring up in company lol)

Glen
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Unread 01-10-2013, 05:53 AM   #39
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Hey Glen,

Sorry you're hurting so bad. More so cause it seems your pain is so damned constant! There ARE times that we really DO require some relief from injuries/conditions that cause us so much hurt.

I hope you find something that soothes your pain...that RELIEVES it, even for a while!

But Glen? If you don't mind, I have a quick question for you.

You MAY recall(?) that I have a couple of bum knees. Had surgeries on both of 'em a couple/three years ago..but now they're acting up again. Well truth is, neither knee was ever repaired. Fixed, healed---whatever. Still aching; sometimes still hurting...lots.

Anyway. I received a call from my Ortho Doc two days ago about setting the DATE for the Total Knee Reconstruction/Replacement of my left knee. He wants to do it. Finally! And man, am I in a confused state!

Beyond all the OTHER questions of such a Surgery, I'm more than a little concerned about the Pain Meds he's GOING to prescribe. From all he says, and all I've read (medically and anecdotally), this Knee Surgery Dealio is gonna be painful...and not just post op--but for (at least) a coupla weeks after, during rehab, etc.

And, uh, I have this tiny, little, smallish problemo with...OPIATES. HaHa! Not a joking thing, I know...but still.

Any suggestions, Glen?

You've said before,
Quote:
"The hip pain was a reminder of just how good an analgesic bupernorphine is."
You might also recall that I've been off Sub Treatment for quite a long time now...tho I have used pain meds for my knee (with the knowledge and approval of both my Doctor and, more important!, Mrs. Sam!!)

Bottom line? To be honest, I fear awakening that damned Dope Demon. Apparently the pain meds I'll be prescribed will be the mega-potent ones. We all know what THOSE are.

Years ago, that FACT would totally DELIGHT me. Crazy, huh?

Yet I DO NOT, ever!, want to return to those terrible, terrible, bad-old-days. My addiction to pain meds very nearly ruined my life, family, home, career---and as with so many of us, my active addiction very nearly ended me.

Anyway...any thoughts about, well anything? In advance, a mighty big thanks!

best,

sam b
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Unread 01-10-2013, 07:34 AM   #40
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Hi Glen, glad you figured out why you were hurting so much. Phew! Also good to hear your cold/flu is leaving. It's really hitting hard across the whole country and early too.

Glad your appointment went well and you had a nice talk about fishing, soccer, etc. lol But mostly, glad that you feel he'll work with you when you get to the point you want to try the patch again.

Did you make your cardiologist appointment?

Do what you need to do about the UTI fast. You don't need to worry about that on top of everything else going on!

Nancy
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Unread 01-10-2013, 07:45 AM   #41
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Hi Sam, sorry to hear about your knee problems and upcoming surgery. I'm not sure if you had followed any of deanna's posts, but she had spinal surgery twice and didn't use opiates for pain management either time. She took toradol, her Suboxone, Mobic. After her second surgery, they did give her nubain in the recovery room. Maybe you can pop over to her thread and talk with her about it - she may have some input for you.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=23383

I hope all goes well for your surgery.

Nancy
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Unread 01-10-2013, 08:01 PM   #42
theswan
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Sam I fear just the sub may not work.

The worse could happen is maybe go back on bupe for awhile and take both like I did-Then taper off the dilaudid or morphine.

I had no real issue taking both types of opioids.

Good luck

Glen

Oh PS, no cardiologist yet-I'm kinda sick with this UTI (I did not make it to a bathroom in time and wet my pants) Kinda like my drinking days lol

Last edited by theswan; 01-10-2013 at 08:02 PM.. Reason: PS
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Unread 01-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #43
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Ive done that before, although I just had came from the Doc's office when they re lanced my incision where my gall bladder had been removed. I apparently was numb from the lidocaine and Lortab, and didnt feel me pee all over myself. I was asleep as well LOL.
I tell ya the Suboxone does wonders for my menstrual cramps. I have horrid cramps during that time, to the point where I dont want to do anything but sleep and lay around.
Thank goodness I have something to curb the edge off of em. Sheww, I tell ya that 2 weeks when I had my period, yes for 2 weeks was horrible. I felt like someone was turning me inside out with the cramps alone. I wish that you could find something to help with your pain, I couldnt imagine having pain so bad that the Suboxone didnt even help.
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Unread 01-10-2013, 10:18 PM   #44
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Sam I feel going on a small about of bupe is the way to go because even if you take a boatload of powerful stuff like I did, the transfer back to bupe was easy.

Then of course like the first time, you slowly taper the bupe.

Just an idea but right now my head is kinda "in the clouds" I feel feverish and a little "out of it"

I hope the antibiotics do their job on the UTI because this one is starting to hurt

Glen
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Unread 01-11-2013, 06:50 AM   #45
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Hey Glen,

**Nancy: Thanks for the good wishes...and the heads-up re: Deanna's experiences.

Now Glen. Also, thanks for your advice. And sheesh, what a time you've been going through. Here's hoping the antibiotics do their thang...!

Re: my own Surgery? I don't know, not sure I'm going to do it. I kinda like my ol knee, even tho it's more than a little worn-out. Poor old thing. I mean, I've known it my entire life!

And the meds? The REAL bottom-line is that, no matter what route I choose, I need to make certain that everyone in my life KNOWS about it. The Secrets, they may have been the worst sin of all.

Again, thanks!

sam b
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Unread 01-12-2013, 12:20 AM   #46
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Hello Sam, April, Nancy Etal

Feeling better after a rough night. My wife finally saw how bad I can sweat. Just from my scalp I get this "stream" that soaked through the pillow into the sheets and then mattress. I get this often but not always. This time was bad. I felt chills and feverish but woke up feeling much better. I made it home to our place 75 miles upriver and did not have to go to the bathroom, so that was great. Still get minor urges and it hurts to go after the first "round" or stream (too graphic? Lol) But it is healing. I believe it is a coincidence rather then part of the virus I have (it is because I break out into a fever sore whenever I have one and today-pop! out it rear's it's ugly head) Again I hope not too graphic!

All in all, im on the upswing

Glen
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Unread 01-12-2013, 08:46 AM   #47
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Hi Glen, glad you're feeling better. I was wondering if it was the flu you have/had because of the amount of people who have it.

Yay for being on the upswing!

Nancy
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Unread 01-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #48
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Sam, I must have sympathy pains. No not really but I got on the "C" train at 59th street and just before sitting down, my knee either lost it's power or more likely, the pain was so intense I had to throw myself down with a "clunk"
I saw stars as both my knee and lower back cried out in pain. I sat and it seemed to get better until I walked again. I wish I had my cane becuase walking was not easy. It has been 4 days and it has not gotten better although it is not a relentless pain. It is scary insofar as I never know when and where it will "give out"

I saw my family doctor for a follow up to my tachycardia (he said if the Inderal works, take the lowest amount and if it beats fast again, take another 1/4 pill or 1/2 mg and he still wants me to see a specialist, my heart is also skipping beats which is scary-bomp-bomp-bomp then no beat for two counts then-bomp-bomp-bomp etc..) I may have to have an ablation procedure or worse case a pacemaker-but back to the knee. I wanted to hold off until the spring but the my doctor says a steriod shot may not help so I called the doctor who did my hip replacement and await to hear from him. The pain again had me taking more then 4 a day and I do not like this at all because I feel like an addict if I ask the doctor again for another temporary increase. I'm now 60 years old and still feel like a child when it comes to asserting myself as far as medication goes. I suppose it is because of the years of lying about my level of pain in order not to suffer withdrawal.

To be honest (well I always try to be-just a figure of speech) I am tired of having to take this medication but know full well that once I taper again; It will be but a matter of time before I go back. This is my pain pattern and unless the knee operation helps to also heal my back (which it may help with due to my awkward gait) I do not see any magic bullet to heal my low back syndrome (failed back or whatever it is called now)

The UTI is cleared up but the urine screen should confirm that. the urgency issue was gone by monday afternoon (or was it Tuesday lost track) So that at least is history until the next one. They do occur more often in diabetics and those that have had a history. I get one each year or more.

So anyway, my spirits are ok but a little down becase I dread both possible surgeries (the ablation I heard is an office procedure done through an artery in the thigh or neck yuck!)

Take care and keep you health

Glen
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Unread 01-19-2013, 05:27 AM   #49
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Dear Glen.

Sorry to hear of your pain problems. In my opinion, if the current med (buprenorphine) works well for your pain then it's probably one of the least "fuggy headed" pain killers. Just stay on and dont worry about coming off. I know it's hard. The addict or, rather, the fighter of the addict in us wants off the stuff.

Hang on in there. We're nearly through the winter.

God Bless

Leo
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Unread 01-20-2013, 01:41 AM   #50
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Thanks leo

Part of my issue now is seasonal affective disorder which used to be called 'Cabin fever' Today I woke up at 10am and felt kinda like I was in withdrawal (I doubt it because I took a dose less the 12 hours before and really dont think I can start WD's that soon or at least I hope not) I took my morning dose and after an hour did start feeling better. Then I get worried that I am indeed dependent and concern myself with tapering down (egads this is crazy) I think to myself if only I could take the patch and just the patch alone but remember it was not quite strong enough.

The worry about my heart beat and the drug I take to slow it down also seem to depress me. I went out and bet horses with a buddy as I usually do and felt better. My knee is screaming in pain and I have surgery to worry about so all in all, I've not been on great emotional standing.

I have choir at 10am and again feel I may miss it because I just feel so crappy and hate waking up early. I'll just see how I feel when I awaken.

Sorry to be a downer but I do not like to vent too much with my wife and friends. She knows but I just do not want to make it a big deal because after all is said and done, it is not a big deal as long as I take it one day at a time and one moment at a time.

Peace to all

Glen
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