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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:34 AM   #1
limitless_euphoria
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Exclamation Newbie Alert: Limitless Euphoria (Klonopin taper)

Hello there, my handle is Limitless Euphoria. I'm a longstanding member of many other vBulletin sites relating to drugs. I am over on the dark side aibt because I check out sites that are Pro-Drugs but it does not mean I'm encouraged to use.

I am a benzo addict something fierce. I tried my first benzo about 10 years ago. My friend/dealer sold me some Xanax. I really liked how it relaxed me and at the time I was a cocaine fiend because I had lots of money (long story). So I'd buy as much Xanax as possiblefor the ride down after staying up for days doing anywhere from 1/8—1/2 oz. I am not bragging. I also had a chance to try Valium, too.

In 2002 I talked my doctor into prescribing me Valium. I started at 6 mg/day and I worked my way up to 10, 15 and then 20 mg.

When I no longer had as much money and my job didn't offer insurance (I was on Medicaid as embarrassing as that is) I went to a community-based clinic and brought all of my old bottles. The Indian doctor there was a nice fellow but he inisited that if I wanted to go the benzo route that I take klonopin vs. Valium. He started me at 1 mg/day which I had no idea was double the strength of the Valium I'd been taking. Then gradually I worked my way up to 2 then 3 mg/day. That's the equivalent of 60 mg of Valium; that's a lot!

So it's time to get off of the benzo tilt-a-whirl!

I used to take them as prescribed but I notice once I quit smoking about 3-4 months ago my benzos ran out earlier and earlier and earlier. I'd get up in the night and sleep-eat the along with whatever food I found. I have parasomnia issues. So it ended up being where I'd come home from work, get a pill crusher and a shot glass and just crush 'em up (the wafers) then dump 'em in the glass and stir. I'd do it before dinner so they'd hit me harder. I wasn't using them for anxiety any more, I was using them recreationally.

Finally, I did reading. Benzos can really do the same damage that alcohol can (same GABA receptors) minus the organ damage. They cause memory impairment. I've had days lost in my life in benzo blackouts because besides my script I ordered them online, too (usually #180 with the strongest of whatever it was: Valium, Xanax, Ativan, whatever) ... They're only useful for those people without addictive personalities for the short-term (2-4 weeks) and also for those people who can take one ONLY as needed (PRN). I think once I get them all outta my system, I might have a slightly protracted withdrawal experience, but it should be light because I'm tapering 0.25 mg of klonopin at a time. Right now I'm at 3 mg. I'm going to try to do 0.25 mg/week. I'll drop off once I get to 0.125 mg (they make 0.25 pills so I could split one). It's like buprenorphine, the slower the taper, the lower the dosage you drop off at, the easier it is, but it's not going to be E-Z P-Z. It's going to be quite the effort.

Wish me luck folks and maybe you could share advice on how to keep my head up when I get a serious benzo jones beyond my daily limit (which goes down next Saturday).

Thanks! -Limitless
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:01 PM   #2
deedle
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I too take clonazepam and I can relate ..I have to be so cautious and honest about when and why I am taking one. I've asked my dr to only prescribe. 5 w/ no refills...because the 1mg w/refill was nice....nice and dangerous for people with our special personality quirk.
are you under (honest?) medical supervision ?
ill give you any help/advice/support I can....just keep posting. and stay strong in your decision. I only ask about the dr because I'm sure you probably know coming off of benzos can be very dangerous. keep posting. . and welcome.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:29 PM   #3
limitless_euphoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedle View Post
are you under (honest?) medical supervision ?
ill give you any help/advice/support I can....just keep posting. and stay strong in your decision. I only ask about the dr because I'm sure you probably know coming off of benzos can be very dangerous. keep posting. . and welcome.
Yes sir, my perscribing doc knows which is why he's being really cool. He wanted to taper me in two weeks and I basically said 'hell no' in a much more polite fashion. I got him to agree to 0.25 mg/week for now. My goal is to be at 2 mg by say mid October. Then by November I shouild be wrapping up my taper.

What scares the buh-jesus out of me is the stories and anecdotes I've read about PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndrome) with benzos. They say the rebound could be weeks, months, even a year or more. I kicked opiates and buprenorphine helped but it seems like the only 'helper med' they'll give you for benzos is gabapentin which works marginally. It really doesn't make me feel better; I swear it's a distraction the doc gave me to make me feel like I'm substituting one for the other or whatever.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:51 PM   #4
deedle
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neurontin (gapapentin) is replaced well by baclofen....ask about it to dr. will write more later.....and its ma'am! sir! I know its all pretty damn scary...why did we do this to ourselves?????



ok...apologies .. I'm currently hospitalized and trying to post between pokes and prods.
yes it scary....I used pills and klonipin to quit smoking...I use klon and bupe to quit pills....I use baclofen to back off bupe and klonipin....it seems like its constant substitution....but I swear I think life without substances is possible and probably even enjoyable. I'm glad your dr agreed to the slow taper....from all noted experiences its what works. look up enterhealth ranch and see if they will do a phone consultation with you...they offered a lot of good (free) advice on how to plan an "exit strategy " for myself.
I think its ok to stay on maintenance for ever if that's where you feel best in life....but for me I know I was free once and would one day (slowly ) like to be free again. I guess you can relate. like I said ill help the best I can...but I think your experience will be helping me as well....which is the symbiotic beauty of this forum! (10 point triple word score lol)
I'm glad we met and look forward to following your journey.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 02:11 PM   #5
limitless_euphoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedle View Post
neurontin (gapapentin) is replaced well by baclofen....ask about it to dr. will write more later.....and its ma'am! sir! I know its all pretty damn scary...why did we do this to ourselves?????
Oooops, sorry deedle. Should be more careful. My first faux pa. I'm so sorry about that. How about we give the newb a mulligan?

Baclofen, I've had that before ... my wfie has m.s. and that's one of the things her neurologist prescribed for her clonus tremor. She ended up sticking with klonopin (#30 1mg / mo) but never using them i.e. leaving them available for me to gobble. At first she didin't care then she was like WTH!

It's an interesting drug. I guess they give it for alcoholics. It's better because it fits into the GABA B receptor vs. A. I guess alcohol and benzos affect A. Baclofen works on B. I've taken a bunch of those pills and it's a weird feeling. I kinda didn't like it. Maybe at a lower dose. I still think neurontin is a crock.

And as for why, I don't know that I'll ever have a good answer. I'm just glad I got the opiate monkey off my back. I'm a recovering heroin and cocaine addict, too. Cocaine led me to opiates because many of the dealers that sold it sold pills too. Then when the pills got too expesnive, heroin became a great bang for the buck.

You really don't know me yet, but let me just say, sometimes I wonder, I'm 33-years-old, how the HELL am I still ALIVE after all of the dumb crap I've done!!!

Last edited by limitless_euphoria; 09-11-2011 at 02:15 PM..
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Unread 09-11-2011, 04:56 PM   #6
limitless_euphoria
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So I had a moderate panic attack and I had my wife give me 0.5 mg (1/4 of a 2) and it's helped. I've wanted to jump out of my skin! Oy vey, this is gonna be a sh*t-ton o' fun! I can feel it already.
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Unread 09-13-2011, 12:48 AM   #7
deedle
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yeah its going to be hard to put it nicely....baclofen is used for Ms/spinal nerve injury etc.....but I've really found it helps
....there's something more to it than gabapeptin....which did nothing for me as well....talk to your MD and see what the think. you know what's funny is we've both quit smoking....and for the life of me I think if we can do that we can...with slow solid commitment quit anything.....I hope you're feeling a bit more relaxed and get some sleep ....it always helps.

ahh..sorry long day...I meant to say YES baclofen....low dose! 5mg *3 daily=15mg

it helps me reduce everything I have taken AND is less likely to drive my addictive behavior. ...which is a selling point for me. how bad is your wife's Ms? my cousin has it bad but is improving on an off label treatment. just curious.
we can do this kid...were the same age ...we've got time
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Unread 09-18-2011, 11:29 PM   #8
limitless_euphoria
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Hey all, it's Limitless. I'm back. I'm feeling unusually ALIVE. I've gotten the k-pins down to maybe 1-1.5 mg/day. All of the sudden, instead of wanting to lie around all day, I wanna go out with my family; I notice my senses are heightened (not in a drug-high pseudo sense but in a high-on-life sense). My head is a bit more clear.

Now, here's the rub:

My doctor that prescribes my benzos is also my suboxone doctor. I think I did disclose to you all that I am a recovering addict. Heroin and Class II narcotics were my drugs of choice. Vicodin and trams didn't even register on the input meter. In August 2008 I successfully transferred from a heavy heroin habit to subs. Meanwhile, my PCP hadn't a clue and was still prescribing me 20 mg of Valium per day. I would only usually take 10-15 mg and then save some for when I had a hard time sleeping. Narcotics make it hadr for me to sleep in general (I was told that's a classic sign of addiction—a paradoxical reaction). Most narcotics make people chronically groggy. I only got groggy and started nodding when I'd come down off of whatever.

So I've been seeing the sub doc just for subs (paying out-of-pocket) and seeing a psychiatrist (and I'd told him this). The psychiatrist knew about the buprenorphine and was fine giving me lamictal, gabapentin and klonopin. I negotiated the dose upward and actually I kind of took advantage of his memory lapse because he said "you're on 3 mg per day right" and I just reflexively said "yeah" even though it was 2 mg. Then I reminded him he'd forgotten once before so "better write down that dosage" and I got 3 mg per day ever since.

Nowadays I forget, they have pharmacy reports. My sub doc runs one on me (I guess he does on all patients periodically to make sure they're not getting narcotics) and he confronts me about the benzos. I told him "you made it clear I was paying for suboxone treatment not psychiatry and you haven't prescribed those drugs."

So then he insists upon taking over but he's not taking my benzos away. I have to defer because I figure if I don't he'll try to hold my buprenorphine over me as leverage for compliance. He prescribes them for a few months, then, all I do is admit to eating them in my sleep as well as other parasomnia issues (just getting out of bed and doing crap I do not remember—wouldn't that scare you) so he blames the meds and wants to d/c them altogether.

This whole taper, well, I guess per his account is supposed to be a gift to me. He went off the reservation on me last visit because I wasn't tapering fast enough. I told him my start dosage was 3 and I wanted to titrate 0.25 mg/wk and I'd stick with it if I could get a slow and steady taper. Mind you, think of how many addicts piss on him and tell him it's raining when he asks! I mean, c'mon, I came forth in the spirit of HONESTY, wanting to get rid of a medication that's become unmanageable. I think he's letting his personal dislike of the benzo class cloud his judgment i.e. how he's treating me. I've never been treated so poorly in my life all because he put a smaller amount in his PDA or phone or whatever. Now he's going to want pill counts and urines and this and that. Ugggg.

But there's a positive TWIST. I found my OLD doc that gave the the k-pin in the first place. Maybe if I just went back to him, didn't say anything, got him to write me an Rx and then just self-tapered then told him "you know, I don't think I need this medication any longer" he'd probably be impressed. I'm sure very few patients volunteer to get OFF of benzos on their own!

This situation is messed up. I wanna find another doctor now because the trust factor is back at zero where it was when I was first getting clean and I'm not going through all that rebuilding. I did not relapse on street drugs; I asked to be titrated off of legit drugs because they were causing problems and I was doing things (including eating too many pills) at night. I think he thought he was calling shenanigans but I swear on all I hold sacred that had to have been what happened. I only took 4 or 5 mg on 2 or 3 different days consciously and the script was out a week-and-a-half early! Yeah, I probably got up on a few occasions and ate a handful. I started noticing towards the end when I went to fill the last week in the pill keeper.

I'll let you all know what I end up doing. Any advice though?
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Unread 09-20-2011, 01:34 AM   #9
deedle
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dude you're super strong....stay honest but realize most drs dont have the time or insight to get everyone on a specialized program.
get the rx and be commited...wean yourself ....if that doesn't work then lesson learned...and then do it the drs way.

short post but last word
I don't know what line of work you're in but you would make a magnificant writer.
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Unread 09-21-2011, 08:49 AM   #10
limitless_euphoria
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Deedle, thank you for the compliment on my writing. I've always been an excellent writer. I was the kind of kid who read the dictionary at 10-years-old for fun because I wanted respect from adults because in my household children were seen and not heard. That's why I correct (and sometimes over correct) my kids' speaking and grammar mistakes.

Now, on to the matter at hand ...

Today is the day of truth. I've got to decide what it is I'm going to do. Still taking about 1.5 mg of k-pin per day. Not yet ready to make the jump to 1 mg, BUT, when I do, I'm going to stay on that for quite a while, then titrate in quarters and see if I can jump off at 0.25 mg/36 hours.

Per conversations I've had with other benzo addicts, it's not the valium and klonopin one needs to worry about ... it's those short-acting benzos that give more of a euphoric high like xanax and ativan. I was never really a fan of either of those two. Some people in some circles I knew, my God, they thought those were to-die-for ...

There again, this is another update. I'll follow up in a few days.

Even though I gather I have a relatively small audience, it's good to know someone's reading. This isn't something I can find a way to get much more moral support on as nobody among my friends or family has had to beat benzos. I know my uncle gets them and he's got a lengthy history of cocaine use (we're talking 20+ years). But, the same thing that stopped him stopped me: running out of money. I used to spend anywhere from $400-1000/week on cocaine (how I'm alive I do not know) and all I have to show for it is a damaged septum. I digress. I guess the thrust of this paragraph is that the only support I can seem to find is online. Thank you very, very much.
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Unread 09-21-2011, 07:43 PM   #11
stp747
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I am reading your updates limitless, and I hope you keep up with the taper, your doing great. Steve
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