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Unread 03-17-2006, 02:14 AM   #1
sassyfras
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Default Angels Among Us...

Hello Friends,

I feel I need to express & share my delight with the package I received from Nancy today. She not only included all the usual brochures and promotional stuff, but many, many relevant posts from people on this forum. Pretty much the exact same posts I would have downloaded myself if my printer were working !
I've been spending the better part of today reading & re-reading all this material, trying not to let my tears smudge anything.....realising that now I finally have something to bring to my doctor that just may open her eyes & heart. And if not,I'll be sure to make copies of it all for another doctor if this one doesn't see the light.

Nancy, you so clearly went way beyond the " call of duty " here ! This package you sent me is a labour of love and caring ... whether or not Bupe turns out to be the miracle for me that it has for so many others remains to be seen. But at least I'm now armed with the facts and first -hand stories that will make it more likely for my doctor to at least consider giving me a trial run with Bupe.

I'll be making an appointment tomorrow { it usually takes about a week to get one } and will post the results asap. For all I know, I may be the first Bupe patient in Canada ! And thank-you also Nancy for sending duplicates of the brochures, as I know of a few people who would be very interested in an alternative to the methadone " ball & chain " they're on. My God, so many people who just want their lives back...so many of them not even computer literate and with no way of getting this kind of information ! Thank-you so very much for making it possible for me to share this with others who are hurting & afraid.

This will be very interesting, to see how it plays out here in Canada.
You can be sure that I'll be doing all I can to spread the message with the resources I've gotten from Nancy and the rest of you !

There are no boundaries when it comes to these matters. Suffering needlessly in Canada is no different than suffering needlessly anywhere else. With your help & encouragement I'll be doing what I can ....... this little voice in the wilderness could yet become a roar !

Once again I'm going to bed early, hoping to get to sleep before the inevitable withdrawal pains make that impossible. All the best to everyone,I wish Sweet dreams & waking with hope,
Blessings,
Maya
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:54 AM   #2
OhioMike
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Nancy, God Bless You!

This forum brings with it, many different persona's, from many different walks of life. Yet, in spite of our differences, we champion one and other in order to aid in the regaining of ones life and in cases, the saving of ones life. Many miles sperate us, we know nothing of one and other, yet we share very personal stories, phone numbers and addresses, all in the harmony of helping each other.

It truly is amazing and does give one a little hope for the salvation of humanity.

I'd like to thank each of you, because these simple facts helped save my life and now motivates me to not only make my recovery work, but, to strive to help others, when possible. I never really did much of that, prior to finding this little place on the net!

Nancy, thank you ......... Your kindness helps make me a better person.

Maya, your in my prayers. Don't worry, it will work out! You have many caring souls in your corner!

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 09:16 AM   #3
Robyn
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<big smile>
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Unread 03-17-2006, 10:02 AM   #4
SlaveToTheNeedle
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Angels and Dope Fiends! What a combination!!!
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Unread 03-17-2006, 11:32 AM   #5
Caroline
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Slave...Puhleeese! Let's show a little compassion and respect for the people here. Thank you.
Caroline
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Unread 03-17-2006, 11:52 AM   #6
Lisa
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Nancy is Da Bomb!!


Thanks for all you do!
Lisa
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Unread 03-17-2006, 12:15 PM   #7
NancyB
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Thanks. It's just what we ALL do here. Helping each other how we can.
I'd like to thank Rearden Metal for giving me links to studies that he thought would be of help and interest to Maya. And everyone here for posting their experiences, without that, I wouldn't have been able to send print outs of posts. (Yikes, this sounds like the beginning of some acceptance speech...[])
I thank you all!
With warmest wishes,
NancyB
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Unread 03-17-2006, 05:58 PM   #8
SlaveToTheNeedle
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Oh Caroline!! Just trying to have a little fun here!! No disrespect intended!!! BTW: I like it when you scold me!! Do it some more!!
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Unread 03-17-2006, 07:24 PM   #9
Don Rico
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The term "dope fiend" can be derogatory, pejorative and emotionally-reactive. Much the same way that racial epithets, or words like "hippie" or "commie" or "liberal" are used as slurs.

Yet these same terms can be used by the marginalized as words of empowerment. Examples abound throughout every segment of modern culture.

The way I read Mr. Slave's comment that merited the so-called scolding, I did not take it as being disrespectful to anyone.

Forgive my presumption to speak collectively here now:

Realistically, whether we like it or not and to whatever degree we are in states of denial, all of here are "dope fiends".

We can either take offense and become angry at the reality of that fact, or take it all in stride... With the necessary self-deprecating and so-called black humor that has been so many of ourselves' primary defense mechanism.

So yeah...

I myself don Rico am PROUD to be a hippie commie liberal dope fiend!!!
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Unread 03-17-2006, 07:39 PM   #10
OhioMike
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Admitting your a dope fiend is fine. However, Don, you just admitted that your a liberal? Now that's a rare bird, a liberal who admits it. Don, good for you, your now on your road to political & social recovery!

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 07:45 PM   #11
Caroline
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Well, I can understand your point...and it might just relate to the 'drug culture'. There are probably a number of people here who have been in the 'drug culture' and have this mentality. But there are also people here who have become addicted to opioids without going 'down the city' to cop heroin...it might have been a matter of being prescribed strong opioid prescriptions...and frankly being called a 'dope fiend' is insulting! That terminology is insulting to anyone, no matter why or how they got involved with opioid drugs. And if we are to recognize that opioid addiction is a disease, a medical condition, the term 'dope fiend' should be expunged from our vocabulary. It is derogatory. It implies hopelessness. It is insulting. Personally, I wouldn't stand for it if you were right up front and close!
Caroline
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:03 PM   #12
OhioMike
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Yes Caroline, there are a great many of us like that, sadly!

I began on a script for 60 vic's per month and this past Dec. 26th, my script was up to more than a 100 vic's every 14 days. No breaks throughout the entire process. However, I realize what part I played in the deal and now I'm on a good recover path.

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:17 PM   #13
Suture
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I agree with you 100% Caroline and Mike.

I understand how some people don't mind, or are even proud, to wear the badge of addict. The more hard core they are the more important and experienced they are among peers. After being lost in the loneliness of addiction they find identity in being a drug addict and feed on the camaraderie and shared experiences. This enhances attendance and compliance in groups like NA, that reinforce this kind of stigmatizing labeling, and may help some people in their recovery for that reason alone.

It would not be an issue if the terms remained in the groups and with the people who enjoy using them. It is very damaging to the discipline of addiction medicine, not to mention to the untold thousands of people who are unable to obtain proper treatment because laws and regulations were passed on assumptions made by someone influenced by this stigmatizing terminology.

Insisting on perpetuating stigmatizing labels outside circles who appreciate it is a selfish act that not only offends but keeps the public and legislative bodies in the dark ages when it comes to perception of addiction treatment.

Don,
Here's why these words are offensive and damaging outside peer groups:

These terms labels a person by his/her illness. By making no distinction between the person and the disease, it denies the dignity and humanity of the individual. In addition, this label implies a permanency to the condition, leaving no room for a change in status. It can add to the depression and destroyed self esteem, essential in a successful recovery...

In a closed setting like an NA group I see nothing wrong if the attendees find it useful in their recovery. But in public I think it does more damage then good, and you would be benefiting many by using medical terms instead, to describe what is now known to be a medical condition.
S-
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:18 PM   #14
Don Rico
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Caroline I understand and fully agree with you. And I do not want to feel the scathing blast of your wrath.

For myself, I think that even if I was not a battle-hardened street-wise counterculture ragamuffin with years of intravenous heroin abuse and the scars to prove it...

Even if I had only lived the posh, priveleged, insular life of a trust-fund baby weekending in the Hamptons, who happened (through no fault of my own) to have become hooked on the little white tablets my pill-peddling physician prescribed for pain...

I think I would still wryly smirk and count myself as a "dope fiend".

***Disclaimer: Results not typical. Your mileage may vary. For novelty use only. Use once and destroy.***


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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:21 PM   #15
Don Rico
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Having said all that, I do want to add that you guys are right about this. Especially the way Suture sewd it up.
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:30 PM   #16
OhioMike
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Quote:
quote:Even if I had only lived the posh, priveleged, insular life of a trust-fund baby weekending in the Hamptons, who happened (through no fault of my own) to have become hooked on the little white tablets my pill-peddling physician prescribed for pain...

LOL ...... WOW ........... hahahahaha ............ Boy I sure missed out! I am going to have fun with this one.

Further, it is good to laugh at your situation some. Clearly people can get offended, but, I hope everyone who has to pass through this type of recovery can find some humor in it. It helps.

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:31 PM   #17
Caroline
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Yes, Suture thank you for your post. It was terrific! Caroline
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:32 PM   #18
TIM
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Don,
My respect for you has just increased 10 fold.
Tim
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:45 PM   #19
OhioMike
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Suture Wrote:
Quote:
quote:It would not be an issue if the terms remained in the groups and with the people who enjoy using them. It is very damaging to the discipline of addiction medicine, not to mention to the untold thousands of people who are unable to obtain proper treatment because laws and regulations were passed on assumptions made by someone influenced by this stigmatizing terminology.
Throughout my six year addiction I found that the majority of the victims who became addicts due to being prescribed too much, were elderly or those on government assistance. Further, you can certainly add our brave Vet's to this group! Also, these people cannot afford or do not have access to Sub treatment. Most of them are forced to detox the old fashioned way, to use meth and they simply cannot handle that, thus do not seek help. I'm sure this does not hold true in each geographical location, but, I'm not in the upper east shoreline area!

Yet tonight I will attend two meetings. One NA and one AA, as I am still celebrating my 30 day mark. When I am called upon, I will stand up and say, My name is Mike, I'm an addict, I have been clean for 30 days and I supported my habit by giving blow jobs at the bus station! This always gets a rise out of someone and as I said, I have to laugh at it some or it will drive me crazy! Yes, I only do that at the meetings where I believe it would be accepted in good humor.

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:50 PM   #20
OhioMike
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Oh and just for the record, that was a joke! My knees are in fine shape! However, only a few in the rooms know it's a joke! Don't wnat anyone emailing me, getting all excited!

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 08:55 PM   #21
leeglegle
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Well, let's all have a great big cyberspace group hug!

As usual I must insert my 2 sense. One of our most important jobs as advocates is to rid popular culture of all stigmatizing words and phraseology.

Back to the beginning - Nancy you ARE the best and don't give me your usual crap about how "we're" the best, because this wouldn't work without us.

You're the Messiah the entire universe has been waiting for. Peace will now reign forever and all illness and suffering will vanish when your work is done.

Then you'll be useless.

Oh yeah. LOL

Robert
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Unread 03-17-2006, 09:19 PM   #22
Mike
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ohioMike,
That reminds me of something,

One time they were training a new counselor. She was a petite, shy, quiet girl. They told her not to laugh or smile at me because I could snap (this was just a setup, I'm stable) She asked me if I used to shoot my heroin. I said well sort of...not exactly...I would dissolve my dope in cold water, I embarrassingly looked way, she encouraged me to continue, I would draw the mixture into a turkey baster and shoot it up my ass...she stared at me for about 10 seconds completely motionless then quickly got up and left the room.

Mike
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Unread 03-17-2006, 10:00 PM   #23
Caroline
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Mike...Ha! From what I've heard this is not entirely out of the realm of possibility. Way back, when I worked at the city jail, there were stories that even you would be astounded at. Can't repeat them though...patient confidentiality. My biggest memory, however, were the 'crabs'. After that experience, I still wash my hands 100 times a day! When I did my internship in New Orleans, I gave mouth to mouth resusitation in the ER to a two year old who sustained a head injury from hitting his head on a curb. A couple of days later I went to check on the child and was told that he had passed several large ascaris worms. Yikes!!! GAG!!! I still remember when we'd go out to the boondocks of New Orleans and the kids there were dirty and played with the c***roaches for pets. There'd be five kids in a room which smelled like a urinal. I remember this because we had a child in the hospital who failed to thrive...he was like 3 yo and only weighed 12 lbs. That was years ago. Things have come a long way since and now there is so much we should be thankful for.
Caroline
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Unread 03-17-2006, 10:16 PM   #24
SlaveToTheNeedle
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OK so let me see: We started with ANGELS, got detoured by the term DOPE FIEND and end up with TURKEY BASTERS UP YOUR ASS!! Yea and I AM the problem child!!Caroline PLEASE SCOLD ME AGAIN! But PLEASE wear your lab coat!! I need a new fantasy!
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Unread 03-17-2006, 10:29 PM   #25
Caroline
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Slave, I don't think you need new fantasies! How about a significant partner who can share your hopes and dreams? You have an attractive intelligence, so go for it. Your new life is just beginning.
Caroline
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Unread 03-17-2006, 10:29 PM   #26
NancyB
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Hey, at least it takes the spotlight off of me, which makes for much more interesting reading!
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Unread 03-18-2006, 12:26 AM   #27
sassyfras
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OMIGOD I can't stop laughing, good old helpless snort like a pig laughter !
You guys are all amazing. And you can argue about how damaging stigmatizing labels are till you're blue in the face, but from where I stand I can't see a single one of you who falls into ANY of the stigmas. There is so much lively intelligence & humour mixed right in with good solid science and genuine human caring~~~I'd want to visit here even if I had no issues with dependence, pain, depression etc. at all !The humour that's grown out of this thread that began so innocently with my giving thanks to Nancy { and Rearden! } is a great example of people doing recovery right as far as I'm concerned.
With the battle many of us have just to have a semblance of a " normal " life it's all too easy to forget how to laugh. Sheesh, it's nice to have tears rolling down my cheeks for a good reason !
Thank-you , all of you for the best laugh I've had all month,
Snort,
Maya
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Unread 03-18-2006, 01:21 AM   #28
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WOW what a thread. First dope feinds is okay when you are in private and you have a relationship with who you are calling out. i only talk that way to people who i have a loving relationship with. Also i am seeing some more feelings coming out of the posters here on this thread which is real nice. We all have feeling and i think it's great to see them sometimes.
Paul
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Unread 03-18-2006, 03:42 AM   #29
OhioMike
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Well Paul, for myself, this has been an enjoyable thread. Got to laugh at my own mess! Clearly we all have a way of taking a thread and running with it! Oh and MIKE, oh man, your killing me! I love it. Nothing better than the reactions on the faces! LOL .......... I did my blow job thing tonight and was almost asked to leave an AA meeting.

Mike
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Unread 03-18-2006, 09:54 AM   #30
Jaywalker
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I've read through this thread several times and a couple of things strike me....

The need to belong....there are "subcultures" that serve a purpose. One tends to identify with others whom views they share...there is the "Gay Movement" (We're Queer and here..."); the extreme environmentalists; people against cruelty to animals (PETA), and yes, combat veterans like myself, etc....

And then there is the drug culture....

People share a need to belong, and when their beliefs/actions are considered "outside the lines" of normal culture, they form into groups that emphasize and glorify their differences and strive to normalize their behaviors and make them acceptable. They seek out others of like ilk, and insist that their way is "right" and has meaning.


As long as we don't form a liberation front that is harmful and detrimental to others, what the heck...

I just find it amusing, as long as no one is hurt by it.

Just tossing my "two cents" in here.....

Be well and fight the good fight....


Jay
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Unread 03-18-2006, 11:25 AM   #31
corky68724
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Nancy,

I was wondering if you could direct me to the materials you provided to sassyfras to take to her doctor. I am planning on paying a visit to my GP and taking the studies and paperwork along with me. I DEFINITELY want to include the studies and information I have seen here regarding Suboxone and depression. I think this is a key for me and my doctor has been treating the depression and is aware of my vicodin addiction. She has been encouraging me to get therapy for it and seems genuinely concerned. I want to pay her a visit and let her know the course of action I have taken, about the Suboxone and my thoughts on depression. I am going to ask her to be open-minded and spend some time researching the subject on her own. The information and experiences I have read here has been extremely enlightening. I would like to give her the chance to care and DO something about the caring. If she does not respond I will most likely find a new GP. Oh, one more question...does anyone know if a nurse practioner can take the course and be qualified to prescribe or does it have to be an MD? Please let me know. Thanks!
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Unread 03-18-2006, 11:01 PM   #32
NancyB
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corky68724, First off, only MDs can become certified to prescribe. And then the longer answer... Some of the materials I sent to Maya were the NAABT brochures and sheets which can be found on the Literature Page. http://www.naabt.org/education/literature.cfm If you'd like hardcopies, you can email me your address (it will certainly go nowhere further than me) and I can send them to you. Most of the posts on depression came from the Suboxone and Depression topic:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=114
I can't remember exactly which ones, but there are a lot of good posts in there. And more have been added since. If you'd like me go through and be more specific, please let me know. And if you need anything printed out, I can do that too.

Also, this topic has started since I put together the package for Maya, more good stuff in there: http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=678

Here are some studies, courtesy of Rearden Metal:

Here's the full (or near full) text of Bodkin:
http://www.drugbuyers.com/freeboard/...&Number=196682

Other than that, there is precious little research at this time:

http://opioids.com/cogmood/antidepressant.html
http://opioids.com/enkephalinase/lhelplessness.html
http://opioids.com/naloxone/depcrf.html
http://opioids.com/enkephalinase/index.html
http://opioids.com/cogmood/index.html
http://opioids.com/codeine/index.html
http://www.chronogram.com/issue/2005...ving/index.php
http://opioids.com/


Let me know if that's helpful and how else I can help.
NancyB
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Unread 03-20-2006, 06:25 PM   #33
heidi
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hey all-
i just had to jump in, because i was JUST HAVING a conversation with a friend of mine, and we were saying how we knew a few people who totally qualified as "dope fiends" in our minds, and they've never been hooked on anything! i guess i've come to associate that word with a pattern of behavior, not necessarily linked to dope. Hasn't anyone here ever heard of that phrase used a verb? Someone "dope-fiending" something, or about something? anyway, i've been laughing, too.
it's nice to see the lighter side of things...
peace,
heidi
p.s. nancy, be careful. there's a lot being asked of messiahs these days...
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