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Unread 04-08-2006, 11:36 PM   #51
diana
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Jay, I'm not at all surprised that you were the one to 'step up'.

Big thanks from the ladies...[8)] [8)] [8)]
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Unread 04-08-2006, 11:54 PM   #52
SomeDayBFree
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I'll agree with the rest of us women - as well as Jay (and I agree that I'm not surprised to see your name here - you are one of the many really good guys that we have here!).

I'm very proud to say that my wonderful and kind husband would never think of talking about a woman in such derogatory terms. It's one of the reasons I love him so much[:I]...and for sure, if he did say those kinds of things, I doubt I would be married to him!

It's unfortunate that we have to defend our gender on such a great support board. Please, Slave, I do appreciate your humor now and then, but you take it a bit too far sometimes...well actually, a lot of times...

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 04-09-2006, 12:14 AM   #53
Suture
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Psychological profile continued from page 1--

When a person begins using drugs regularly, the escape form the world around them can limit self reflection. This lowered ability to view one's self from an objective standpoint prevents emotional growth and the ability to measure the effects of one's actions on others. Maturity is stunted. If and when the drug use ends the person remains at the maturity level they were at when the drug use began. As I recall Slave mentioned he began to use drugs when he was 12 years old. So some of his recent post, although hurtful, disrespectful and unenlightened, are consistent with that age bracket. We should not expect him to change or care or understand why it is upsetting to others. I suggest we laugh at what we can and dismiss what is inappropriate. We shouldn't let our disapproval of his inconsideration deter from helping the people who come here for real life saving help.

Slave-upsetting people can be fun for a while, but helping someone feels better and lasts longer.
S-
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Unread 04-09-2006, 12:38 AM   #54
opiatedeficient
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Suture,
Your comments have made a lot of sense. It strikes me, reading through these comments, that perhaps Slave is having to come up with a reason why he was unable to stay clean this last go around, and why he chose sub instead of going cold turkey and sticking to meetings, since he keeps asserting that that worked oh so perfectly in the past. Perhaps he is getting flack from his NA group for taking sub, and therefore has to blame it on a character defect. By saying "oh, I'm just lazy, I COULD do this without sub, but I'm CHOOSING not to..." in a way it doesn't force any shifts in prior thought processes, which as Suture mentioned, are hard for some people.

If you believe that there is only one way to do something (ie, NA) then the idea that there are in fact, other ways to achieve the same effect that are just as good, albeit different (ie suboxone) will be so foreign that perhaps it just isn't "graspable" and its easier to keep denying it.

Slave, some of your comments have been racist and sexist. It's not a matter of us being too uptight, or unable to roll with casual lingo. I actually have a very irrevent sense of humor. But this is an internet forum for one purpose, and I don't think it is too much to ask that you show a little respect for women.
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Unread 04-09-2006, 01:03 AM   #55
Brett
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Slave,
Boy youve done it now, Got all the ladies mad at ya! Tell the girls your sorry and lets all move on past this. I know if I said that my wife would hit me over the head with a skillet!! Ive enjoyed reading most of your post, but the majority of the people on this site dont want to read that type of post. Some people may need sub the rest of there life, thats better than living a life constantly craving opiates. At least the addictive behavior stops. I dont see where it has anything to do with being lazy. Going to na is just another activity. Most of these people have to work each day in some way or another. Most people dont get high on sub, the ones that think they are have not felt normal in so long they think normal is high. If you started drugs at 12 you really never got a chance to know what adult normal is. My brother in law is a recovering herion addict, hes been clean 5 years, he said not a day goes by that he doesnt crave opiates. Thats not living a quality life. Being on sub isnt lazy its just plane smart. I know you must feel better now than you did those 7 years. and I dont think your getting off on sub, If you are id like to know how. So leave the girls alone tell em your sorry and lets get back to business-- helping others. Yes slave your post helped me alot in the begining.

brett
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Unread 04-09-2006, 02:01 AM   #56
SlaveToTheNeedle
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Yes I Apologize. It was thoughtless of me to to speak in such derogatory terms.I never realized how cold hearted and thoughtless my posts have been. This truly has been an awakening of sorts for me. I am starting to get in touch with my Inner Self. It just goes to show that addiction is a disease that not only affects you but can also harm others. I forgot how many Grandmothers are recovering through this Miracle Drug called Suboxone. So Grannys I truly do Apologize. I hope I didn't make you miss a stitch while knitting in your rocking chairs. Now for all the sweet young tomatos on the board send me your email address and I can apologize by taking you out to dinner!
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Unread 04-09-2006, 02:26 AM   #57
glimmertwin
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Slave, your arrogant apology does nothing for me.

I'm not a granny and I'm not self-righteous. When I was using I was also being pretty stupid at times. I could tell real nasty jokes, loudly in the bar for all to hear. I sometimes unbuttoned my blouse and danced on a table. I talked very openly about sex, in public places with absolutely no respect to anyone who would rather not hear it. I was a nasty girl who had a lot of fun.

And then I got clean and something started happening to me. I grew something called a conscience. And I learned how to have respect for people. I still talk real nasty about sex, everyday, WITH MY HUSBAND. It's too bad you have to be suboxone-free to have the ability to bang broads. My husband is one lucky guy, he gets banged every day. Suboxone has not closed down my playground.[^]

glimmer
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Unread 04-09-2006, 03:08 AM   #58
SlaveToTheNeedle
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Oh Lets not forget what this post is REALLY about, I certainly struck a nerve on this one and thats EXACTLY whats intended. Its quite easy to follow "the protocol". Sub is Insulin, Your Dependent, Etc Etc. It appears to me that when someone challanges "The Protocol" they are bound to stir the pot. And I LOVE To Stir The Pot. This board would be just grand if everyone had the same train of thought. I could give a rats ass what anyone thinks of my viewpoint and frankly I am quite proud not to be a Follower. I have stated Many, Many times how much I Love Suboxone But I REFUSE To BS Myself into Believing I am "CLEAN" I am on Narcotics For Gods Sake! If people choose think they no longer have a drug problem now that they are on Sub I could care less! As for myself I know better.
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Unread 04-09-2006, 03:19 AM   #59
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You are the follower and you don't even know it you're so brain washed. Following the simplistic Clean/Dirty teachings of NA. I understand, youĂ'll never get it and don't care to, I see that.

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Suture

Slave's comment shows where NA and the war on drugs comes full circle and hurts people. When people are convinced there are only two states of being CLEAN / DIRTY they find it impossible to categorize a medication that is an opioid but eliminates damaging addictive behavior. It's complicated and the LAZY thing is not to bother to learn the difference. The SIMPLE way of thinking is Drugs are bad, sub is a drug, therefore sub is bad. It shows a lack of understanding and demonstrates why addicted people are still stigmatized.
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Unread 04-09-2006, 03:29 AM   #60
opiatedeficient
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One thing that still strikes me then, Slave, is if you are not clean, when are you going to get clean? When are you going to get off of the sub? After all, if being on sub is preventing you from leading the perfect life that you used to have, why on earth are you still on it? That's the question you won't answer, except to say that you're lazy. And that you're a junkie.

I know you're a junkie. I'm a drug addict too. And I'm a drug addict for whom suboxone is helping, when 12 steps did not. You are obviously an addict for whom the 12 steps worked,so why are you taking sub?

You keep emphasizing that we're not clean because we're on narcotics if we're taking sub. Well, should we just throw the sub out and go back to our drugs of choice then? They were a hell of a lot more fun, frankly.

You make no sense Slave, but obviously you need some e-friends and e-attention so I guess that's why you come here. Still taking the sub you profess is so bad for our recovery...interesting...
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Unread 04-09-2006, 05:21 AM   #61
Frozen
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by opiatedeficient

It Makes No More Sense Than Your Capitalization.
I think that's Slave's little way of saying: "James Frey Is My Role Model" (Read just one page of "A Million Little Pieces", and you'll understand.)

Slave, I see your words in the same light as I see flag burning: I disagree with your opinions and the way you've chosen to express yourself, but I respect your right to do so.
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Unread 04-09-2006, 06:21 AM   #62
Carol
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Sigh....OK, I wasn't going to post, was just reading.....but now i feel i have to speak up.

To the Buprenorphine naysayers....

To *ME*....it's QUALITY of life -- Plain and simple. Whether it's Methadone or Buprenorphine/Suboxone. There are folks that will be on anti depressants for the rest of their lives. They will do so to improve the QUALITY of their lives....and why not?? I feel much the same way about my methadone. I was an opiate addict from the time I was 13 years old, Dr's gladly gave them to me for migraines. At 37 I was diagnosed with HCV and way back then (I'm 50 now)...the prognosis was grim. It was then that I tried IV drugs for the first time. I went from bad to worse. Give yourself some time....SOME of the "pain pill addicts" will do the same thing...when is it bad enough to get some help? And let me also add that I AM diabetic....insulin dependent, so I can speak FIRST HAND about the analogy spoken above. Guess what? I take my methadone much in the same way I do my insulin. I take BOTH of them each morning and at the same time....and for the same reason, really....to LIVE. Because, people....I lived a "non-life" for about 30 years before I discovered Methadone. I am not only "living" now.....I am THRIVING! I was first the co-founder and president of a non-profit organization for hepatitis C....and now have my own non-profit org. I had my one and ONLY child when I was 40....and other than alot of health problems having to do with being a severe diabetic...my life is terrific!

I have a rule that I usually follow...and that is that I do not argue about why I take methadone...it's really none of anyone's business. My organization/website is called, "Methadone Support Org." Much like NAABT...I try to support folks on medically assisted treatment (MAT). That being said...here's what I do NOT understand. This forum...as well as MY community of forums are here to SUPPORT people on MAT. There are MANY forums for people that are against taking Buprenorphine and/or methadone. So....will somebody PLEASE tell me why many of the same folks continue to come to either of our forums to preach the evils of these medications and to put down the people taking them? It is rude and certainly inappropriate. People come here to get SUPPORT...they are NOT bothering you and NOBODY is trying to convince anyone to start taking these medications. I have posted at a few of the abstinence based forums VERY MUCH by accident...to leave my link for people that might need help. I have been cruely ATTACKED and told to leave...read the riot act. Tell me.....what is the difference here??
This is NOT NOT NOT the place to come and disturb the support and camaraderie. I am very sorry...but I am really sick of it.

I wish you all well...sorry for the interuption!

smoooooooch.........Carol

http://www.MethadoneSupport.org

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Unread 04-09-2006, 07:02 AM   #63
glimmertwin
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Carol - thank you for taking the time to write that. Very well written.

You do have so much to be proud of and grateful for. I checked out your website, it is really impressive.

I didn't know this site even existed until I found the link at another recovery forum. This place kicks ass. I did the NA thing for 5 years, now with the suboxone, I feel just a little bit unwelcome when I go to a meeting. So I don't share, I just listen.

I do, however, totally support the 12 steps. It's a good way of life, anyone, addict or not, can benefit from it. It's just a handbook of how one can live with less stress, less anger, less resentments, and to take responsibility for any wrongdoing. I mean, what's wrong with that?

So I have the 12 steps and I have sub. I'm clean, for longer than I've been in years, and I'm happier.

But, like you Carol, I'm tired of the sub-bashing. It absolutely does not belong here.

Sheryl
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Unread 04-09-2006, 07:48 AM   #64
OhioMike
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Slave,

Could you please explain how Suboxone is used, biologically and phsycologically in recovery of opiate addiction? With the goal being complete abstinence from any opiate drug.

You claim that you are being brutally honest about Suboxone Therapy, when in fact, your not. Because your many posts on this board, if one were to go back and read them, as I have show several things. #1. You have no understanding of what Suboxone Therapy really is. #2. You purposely try to mislead what it is because you, yourself are a complete failure when it comes to managing your addiction issues. You have been and are nothing but a habitual relapse and clearly that has made you feel like a complete failure. #3. Because of your own personal insecurities you wish to make everyone feel as you do. Clearly it eats at you that there are people here who are actually doing well, have a handle on their addiction. People who have a clear cut plan of recovery and who are succeeding.

I challenge you or anyone else to go back and read each and every one of your posts. You have done nothing but put out misleading statements about what the true use of Suboxone is and what goals are achievable through it.

By the way Slave, we are all not stupid here, we know that Suboxone is an opiate and we know how strong it is! However, we also understand how to properly use this tool, for our own individual needs and recovery. I have finally lost my patience with you and can no longer be civil. You are very harmful to this forum and it's good intentions.

I have enjoyed your humor, but, it too is nothing but a ruse!

I do apologize for being rude, but, I am sick of what you are doing in regard to the good of this forum. You feel free to respond as you wish. It matters not to me, as I will never respond to you personally again. However, I will make it a point to warn any new comer to this forum, that you don't have a clue what the true use of Suboxone is and that your advice could be harmful to their recovery!

I hope you succeed this time in controlling your addiction. By the way, don't preach AA or NA to me. I am and have been more active in AA than you ever have been. My true story would reveal how wrong you truly are. Oh and I went to 11 meetings last week.

Have a good life Slave.

I now will be taking a sabbatical from this forum. I have lost the ability to be civil to people who do not deserve it.

To Tim, Caroline and all other members, I'm sorry for this outburst, you folks do not deserve being forced to read this crap. However, I had to express it. Suboxone therapy has the ability to help a great many people. Proper education and proper information can lead to many success stories. Which can and do result in complete abstinence from any opiate drug.


Be well, Mike
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Unread 04-09-2006, 11:36 AM   #65
SlaveToTheNeedle
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I have Done My Job and Done It Well. I choose to Always take an opposite viewpoint to almost ANY arguement and then watch reponses. Just like when in AA I would put photos of myself Drunk in my vacation photos. This stirred controversy, AND it was FUN! The day I start posting the same old sh*t as everyone else is the day I need to put a bullet in my head.
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Unread 04-09-2006, 11:45 AM   #66
Frozen
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If you savor the role of iconoclast so greatly, why not stumble into a packed mosque during Friday prayers while munching on bacon strips and chugging Jim Beam?

Now that would take balls. [}]
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Unread 04-09-2006, 11:49 AM   #67
Robyn
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I believe it's how you handle your reaction to something someone does or says that is important, not what they say. To leave the board Mike, you are giving too much power to Slave. Please reconsider. Your input will be missed.

Slave, you make me think....and sometimes it's damn uncomfortable. Thank you.

Dixie
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Unread 04-09-2006, 11:52 AM   #68
purple
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Carol
YOU GO GIRL
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Unread 04-09-2006, 02:38 PM   #69
Brett
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I think we should move on past this, I like to read slaves post. We dont all have to agree on everything. I dont agree with all he says but I enjoy opposition. I do respect all women, and I think slave does too. He just likes to stir the pot. I dont see where he is against sub He seems to like it a alittle to much! We all are still on a strong opiate, It is also a safe one that stops our addictive behavior. Some people will need sub for life, some for a few months. Sub has saved alot of lives.

He has apologized for whatits worth the best way he can. Some men werent taught to respect ladies, thats just the way they are. If taking sub is the lazy man way out. Ill be lazy anyday!!

Brett
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Unread 04-09-2006, 07:10 PM   #70
TIM
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"...I think we should move on past this..."

I agree. This topic is closed.
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