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Unread 12-29-2009, 04:21 PM   #1
Rambyte
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Default Baclofen Miracle Drug?

AA, SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: As far as I'm concerned, they're all the same. They all ignore the 800-pound Gorilla in the room.

They all claim that Alcoholism is a disease and yet they attempt to deal with it from a behavioral perspective. This only enables the bias used by the clinicians, the courts, the media and others to view alcoholism as a "behavioral" problem and thus a defect of character. If alcoholism is a behavioral problem, why can't we just quit? And if Alcoholism is a disease, where is the medical solution?

The only way this works is if the Alcoholic can muster enough will-power to choose not to drink. And as all alcoholics know, the desire to drink is ever-present, constantly nagging to be satisfied, and regularly overpowers our will-power. WhatÂ’s even more frustrating is: Especially in the face of all the negative consequences, we donÂ’t know why. Although well intentioned, this treatment is at its extreme is cruel to the alcoholic and per perhaps only somewhat better than the treatment meted out by society in general.

The 800-pound Gorilla in the room is the fact that, after so many years of drinking, alcohol has re-wired the alcoholic's brain chemistry and none of these programs have a way of dealing with this. The only approach of these programs is to encourage or hope, based on the information in their program, that the alcoholic continues to choose not to drink long enough that the brain will finally re-wire itself. And this will occur, if the alcoholic can choose not to drink over a long enough period of time.

However, I'm sure an accurate accounting of relapse activity would reveal only a small percentage of alcoholics have been able to accomplish this. Again, this is not an affliction that is behavior-based. If accounted rigorously, my guess is that the vast majority of alcoholics relapse frequently because they are unable to choose not to drink when their brains are screaming to be satisfied.

Well, based on my experience and the ground-breaking work by Dr. Olivier Ameisen with the 40-year-old drug baclofen, the 800-pound Gorilla may finally be told to take a hike. The very day I began taking baclofen in high doses, my brain stopped screaming for alcohol. I drank heavily on a daily basis for the past 30 years. The longest I was ever able to abstain based on will-power was two weeks. Dr. Ameisen has abstained now for five years and he has even been able to drink wine with dinner without triggering prior alcoholic tendencies.

Let me be clear: I am relaying my anecdotal experience only. I am not telling you to follow this as a prescription. I provide my experience for your information only. You will decide the best course of treatment for your alcohol-dependency.

Clinical trials are currently being conducted for the efficacy of baclofen in the struggle against alcohol dependency. With respect to those of us who struggle with this addiction on a minute-by-minute basis, this cannot happen soon enough.

Here is a link to Dr. Ameisen's web site.
http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/
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Unread 12-29-2009, 05:08 PM   #2
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Rambyte, I use a support group to stay sober. It works for me. There are other ways to get & stay sober. Good luck to you.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 05:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Lee View Post
Rambyte, I use a support group to stay sober. It works for me. There are other ways to get & stay sober. Good luck to you.
Thanks R.Lee,

My experience tells me you are both exceptional and very fortunate!

Rambyte
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Unread 01-01-2010, 05:06 PM   #4
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How many mg did you have to take? There is a study being conducted now at U of P, I think, but it is for baclofen and cocaine addiction.
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Unread 01-01-2010, 06:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlizebrown View Post
How many mg did you have to take? There is a study being conducted now at U of P, I think, but it is for baclofen and cocaine addiction.
Dr. Ameisen states alcohol craving is successfully suppressed without side effects at 0.5 mg per Kg of body weight for the Adult Male. He also cites successful suppression of alcohol cravings at 75 mg per day. Ameisen, (2009), "The End of My Addiction", (pages 217-218), Sarah Chrichton Books.
http://www.amazon.com/End-Addiction-...2384676&sr=1-1

I started with 30 mg (3x10 mg) per day. On day three, I went to 60 mg (3x20 mg) per day. My cravings have been successfully suppressed. After 30 years of drinking heavily on a daily basis, I have not had a drink since I started baclofen. And it has not been a struggle.

As Dr. Ameisen states: "High-dose baclofen has an apparently unique ability to produce rapid-onset, effortless abstinence. (ibid, page 218)
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Unread 01-01-2010, 10:36 PM   #6
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Here is a link to information about Baclofen. Please note that its intended purpose is as a muscle relaxant for spastic attacks.
http://www.drugs.com/baclofen.html
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Unread 01-02-2010, 03:44 PM   #7
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Rambyte- How long have you been taking baclofen? Is it a maintenance medication or used short term to reduce withdrawal symptoms. And does it have the potential to be addictive?
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Unread 01-03-2010, 01:45 AM   #8
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Based on the information in Chapter 9 (pages 207-232), Dr. Ameisen describes how Baclofen works. His experience indicates that the urge to drink alcohol ceases within a few weeks of using Baclofen between 100 to 200 mg per day. Maintenance requires around 60 mg per day. The research he cites states that Baclofen is not addictive and the only side-effect is sleepiness.

My experience is that I needed frequent naps as I increased the dosage. I welcomed this given the disruption to my sleep patterns caused by alcohol. In my case, I used a 2-week vacation from work to ratchet up my dosage.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 01:55 PM   #9
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http://www.medicinenet.com/baclofen/article.htm


Above is a link to the side effects of Baclofen,
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Last edited by CarlyO; 01-12-2010 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Unread 01-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #10
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Dear Rambyte,

I am glad to hear baclofen is working for you, thank you for sharing your experience with it. My research shows it is not FDA approved -for the treatment of alcohol dependency - this may make it difficult for others to request it from their doctors. I would love nothing more than for people who struggle with addiction to have as many viable options available to them.
Your quote re:
" If alcoholism is a disease, where is the medical remedy? ""
To answer that : There are currently approved medical treatments - it is suggested to use the medications in conjunction with other treatments if applicable for optimum results.
Also, you remark on the "800 lb gorillas " which are imo- the 2 vital components that we struggle with, the physical and the biospsychosocial aspects of addiction.

From my perspective, the biggest thing that people overlook is the the brain becomes physically altered from the normal state. THAT is disease.
"The uncontrollable, compulsive behavior despite negative consequences."
It is a disease that can be treated and put into remission through the utilization of different tools including medication; professional therapy (oftentimes CBT) to help return the altered pathways in the limbic system back to their non-compulsive, normal stop/go state from the addiction-changed 'go go go' state., peer support, and if applicable, spiritual support.

FAQs : why alcoholism is a disease with footnotes...
http://www.alcoholanswers.org/alcoho...uestions.cfm#1

As far as the forum, the goal is to provide Peer Support which offers help, understanding and encouragement from others who share similar issues.
We're not here to tell people how to run their recovery or treatment, but merely to offer support and understanding and to educate where possible.

The site is full of information, links, peer support but ultimately it is up to the person to dialogue with their doctors , counselors, or other professionals to explore and FIND what works for them.

Again, I am thrilled baclofen is working for you. I think it is important to note that treatment is not one size fits all. I understand that you have conveyed this in your posts regarding your experience and it is appreciated.

I wish you continued success with your treatment, Carly

medication link:
http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...-treatment.cfm

Information on psychosocial therapy:
http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...al-therapy.cfm

Peer Support:
http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...er-support.cfm
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 06:08 AM   #11
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Baclofen is the abuse of substances well known here in Russia, we can effectively replace alcohol.But it is very dangerous addiction and even take him for a long time, because removing baclfoen is associated with high mortality.
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Unread 07-21-2010, 10:57 AM   #12
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The information about the drug have you given is good . Well, baclofen is well known drug abuse here in Russia, it is indeed a substitute for alcohol. But it is very dangeroous drug abuse and even take it for a long time, because the withdrawals baclfoen are associated with high mortality.

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Unread 11-09-2010, 01:05 PM   #13
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I think that a very important statement made here is "any cure is not a one-size-fits-all" and that has been missing big time! Personally, I take subutex and Xanax - I'm an alcoholic and optiate combo addicted person (sober now) - and this works very well for me, along with the support groups. Some docs will not prescribe ANY potentially addictive substance to someone who has ANY kind of addiction - one-size fits all again!

I agree with the intent of the original post, but it does sound like Rambyte is saying that medication is the answer and not AA, SMART, etc.... My experience (20 years+) agrees more with CarlyO; AA obviously works and can work by itself for many people without medication, that's how you end up with people in a meeting with 10, 20, years sober. But, some people need medication - I do, and I say why not use every tool at your disposal?

Explore the support groups, examine the medications - carefully and closely!! - and what ever combination it takes to get this damn thing out of your life!

Anyway, that's what I'm doing - I agree with the point that medication can be necessary, but I disagree with "...it only works if the alcoholic can muster enough will power..." statement. Yeah, you need will power to get started, but it isn't personal will power that keeps people in AA sober. Either way, I'll check out your medication recommendation...

Last edited by sws1967; 11-09-2010 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: typo
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Unread 02-26-2011, 01:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambyte View Post
AA, SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: As far as I'm concerned, they're all the same. They all ignore the 800-pound Gorilla in the room.

They all claim that Alcoholism is a disease and yet they attempt to deal with it from a behavioral perspective. This only enables the bias used by the clinicians, the courts, the media and others to view alcoholism as a "behavioral" problem and thus a defect of character. If alcoholism is a behavioral problem, why can't we just quit? And if Alcoholism is a disease, where is the medical solution?

The only way this works is if the Alcoholic can muster enough will-power to choose not to drink. And as all alcoholics know, the desire to drink is ever-present, constantly nagging to be satisfied, and regularly overpowers our will-power. WhatÂ’s even more frustrating is: Especially in the face of all the negative consequences, we donÂ’t know why. Although well intentioned, this treatment is at its extreme is cruel to the alcoholic and per perhaps only somewhat better than the treatment meted out by society in general.

The 800-pound Gorilla in the room is the fact that, after so many years of drinking, alcohol has re-wired the alcoholic's brain chemistry and none of these programs have a way of dealing with this. The only approach of these programs is to encourage or hope, based on the information in their program, that the alcoholic continues to choose not to drink long enough that the brain will finally re-wire itself. And this will occur, if the alcoholic can choose not to drink over a long enough period of time.

However, I'm sure an accurate accounting of relapse activity would reveal only a small percentage of alcoholics have been able to accomplish this. Again, this is not an affliction that is behavior-based. If accounted rigorously, my guess is that the vast majority of alcoholics relapse frequently because they are unable to choose not to drink when their brains are screaming to be satisfied.

Well, based on my experience and the ground-breaking work by Dr. Olivier Ameisen with the 40-year-old drug baclofen, the 800-pound Gorilla may finally be told to take a hike. The very day I began taking baclofen in high doses, my brain stopped screaming for alcohol. I drank heavily on a daily basis for the past 30 years. The longest I was ever able to abstain based on will-power was two weeks. Dr. Ameisen has abstained now for five years and he has even been able to drink wine with dinner without triggering prior alcoholic tendencies.

Let me be clear: I am relaying my anecdotal experience only. I am not telling you to follow this as a prescription. I provide my experience for your information only. You will decide the best course of treatment for your alcohol-dependency.

Clinical trials are currently being conducted for the efficacy of baclofen in the struggle against alcohol dependency. With respect to those of us who struggle with this addiction on a minute-by-minute basis, this cannot happen soon enough.

Here is a link to Dr. Ameisen's web site.
http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/

Congrats!! I also am on Baclofen, i get mine from river, and have been sober since December '10, My way of thinking has changed and obv my lifestyle. If its working for you keep it up. Keep in mind.. there's side effects to every treatment, and some of the most effective medicines in the world are not FDA approved so that doesn't mean anything! So like I said keep it up and take care!
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Unread 02-07-2012, 09:45 PM   #15
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Baclofen is a muscle relaxer I dont understand why that would be used for alcohol dependence ?? I am on this part of the site to try and find out some info to help my grandma who is diabetic and has a very big problem and she thinks she can do it all by herself and she cant. So I have been looking up different meds and I have never heard of a muscle relaxer used for that.
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Unread 02-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyraj View Post
Baclofen is a muscle relaxer I dont understand why that would be used for alcohol dependence ?? I am on this part of the site to try and find out some info to help my grandma who is diabetic and has a very big problem and she thinks she can do it all by herself and she cant. So I have been looking up different meds and I have never heard of a muscle relaxer used for that.
Dear KellyRaj,
Hi -
I remember this orig post and doing research on Baclofen and imo this was one person's experience.
IMO since your G-Ma has health issues it would be far Safer for her to seek medical help. Does her doctor know that she drinks? I am not sure how much she consumes per day, but alcohol is known to complicate diabeties as is stopping on her own and you sound like you are aware of this.
There are no quick fixes, however people can and do put their alcohol misuse into remission, by finding what works for them. Ex some people utilize medical supervision and a support system. There are approved medications like Vivitrol to help with cravings, again she would need to see a physician for this.

Do you have support ? Are there other family members who can help you persuade your Grandmother that quitting "cold Turkey" can be very dangerous? Does she want to stop drinking ?

I will post some links for you and you can also use the Alcohol Dependence Locator - it is on the right of each page - you enter your zip code which will then show you names and numbers of therapists, doctors , clinics in the area.


Also read the experiences of others, keep us posted and take care, Carly

Treatment locator : Physicians, counselors and treatment facilities..

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/local/

Below is a list of the various support groups that are available and how to find one near you.

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/resour...port-links.cfm

Link to medication assisted treatment options... this can be an invaluable tool to help with cravings.

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/treatm...-treatment.cfm

Information for your family ....
Education for your family/loved ones can be vital to their understanding of what you are facing and trying to accomplish.

http://www.alcoholanswers.org/friends-family/
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 02-28-2012, 12:25 PM   #17
Billdo
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[QUOTE=CarlyO;360492]Dear Rambyte,

I am glad to hear baclofen is working for you, thank you for sharing your experience with it. My research shows it is not FDA approved -for the treatment of alcohol dependency - this may make it difficult for others to request it from their doctors. I would love nothing more than for people who struggle with addiction to have as many viable options available to them.


I APOLOGIZE to respondind so late to your post now that I realize how hold it is but you raise alot of points that have been discounted, with all due respect:
Prescribing baclofen for addiction is what is known as an “off-label” use. Once the FDA has approved a medicine for a specific purpose, physicians can prescribe it off-label for other conditions they think it can help. The AMA says the deciding factor in off-label prescribing is “the best interest of the patient.” Off-label prescriptions are very common. Over 23% of all prescriptions, and over 60% in cancer care, are off-label. Among the commonly prescribed medications for addiction, topiramate has been approved by the FDA for epilepsy and is prescribed for addiction off-label. Naltrexone has been specifically approved for addiction at a dose of up to 50 milligrams a day, but it is often prescribed at higher doses off-label. Neither medication has been shown to be as effective against addiction as high-dose baclofen.
Prescribing baclofen for addiction is a legitimate off-label use of the medication. According to Markus Heilig, M.D., Ph.D., clinical director of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), “there is certainly nothing wrong with physicians prescribing [baclofen] off-label.”

Your quote re:
" If alcoholism is a disease, where is the medical remedy? ""
To answer that : There are currently approved medical treatments - it is suggested to use the medications in conjunction with other treatments if applicable for optimum results.
Also, you remark on the "800 lb gorillas " which are imo- the 2 vital components that we struggle with, the physical and the biospsychosocial aspects of addiction.


From my perspective, the biggest thing that people overlook is the the brain becomes physically altered from the normal state. THAT is disease.
"The uncontrollable, compulsive behavior despite negative consequences."
It is a disease that can be treated and put into remission through the utilization of different tools including medication; professional therapy (oftentimes CBT) to help return the altered pathways in the limbic system back to their non-compulsive, normal stop/go state from the addiction-changed 'go go go' state., peer support, and if applicable, spiritual support.




From the HBO special on ADDICTION with Baclofen stopping the craving center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byain0Vo5mo

From the video, patients shown a half-second cue of drug of choice, red represents immediate craving. Automatic. Same patient 5 days later on baclofen
[img]http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...can2small.jpg/[/img]


As far as the forum, the goal is to provide Peer Support which offers help, understanding and encouragement from others who share similar issues.

We're not here to tell people how to run their recovery or treatment, but merely to offer support and understanding and to educate where possible.

The site is full of information, links, peer support but ultimately it is up to the person to dialogue with their doctors , counselors, or other professionals to explore and FIND what works for them.


[the only caveat I have with a fairly good statement is that I work in the medical community and they have zero idea about baclofen nor how to treat it. Papers are coming out more recently, but in one whole city, I knew a patient that could not get a doctor to prescribe him baclofen- I saw him at age 44 in the obituary, he read The End of My addiction, told me alcohol was going to kill him, wanted baclofen- he's dead now because doctors don't know about it]

Again, I am thrilled baclofen is working for you. I think it is important to note that treatment is not one size fits all. I understand that you have conveyed this in your posts regarding your experience and it is appreciated.

I wish you continued success with your treatment, Carly


There are studies coming out that show a close to a 100% success rate is dramatic reduction and cessation dependent only upon how high they go in the dosage. Yes, everyone is different, some may need more to turn the craving center of the brain off than others, but it can be turned off.

I started BACLOFEN 3 years ago and I went from day to night to morning drinker to not wanting to drink at all. 3 years on BACLOFEN.
I got the max prescription of 80mg/day from my doctor but with the High Dose Protocol wasnt nearly enough. Used 4rx and a couple of other overseas. River Pharmacy for the lady who mentioned them charged $1 per 10mg pill and you need up to 200mg. They were scam artists.

Now the boring stuff and there is ALOT more I am leaving out.

Newspapers & Magazines

This Paris-born doctor says his Jewish roots contributed to his drink problem. But he’s convinced he’s discovered a way to beat the booze
The Jewish Chronicle - 21.02.2011

The little pill that could cure alcoholism
The Observer - 09.05.2010

The One-Step Program
GQ Magazine - March 2010

TV doctor has set up a centre in Garstang
Garstang Courier 09.03.2011

Could this pill CURE alcoholism? Doctor drinking himself into an early grave tells of his 'fairy tale' recovery
Daily Mail - 23.02.2009

Has this doctor discovered a cure for alcoholism?
The Independent - 08.12.2008

France abuzz over alcoholic 'cure'
BBC News - 06.12.2008


Scientific Articles

Baclofen withdrawal causes psychosis in otherwise unclouded consciousness
Malhotra T, Rosenzweig I
J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci 21:476:2009


Acute interaction of Baclofen in combination with alcohol in heavy social drinkers
Evans S, Bisaga A
Alcohol Clin Exp Res 33(1):19-30:2009

Case report: Suppression of symptoms of alcohol dependence and craving using high-dose Baclofen
Bucknam W
Alcohol and Alcoholism 42(2):158-160:2007

Effectiveness and safety of Baclofen for maintenance of alcohol abstinence in alcohol-dependent patients with liver cirrhosis: randomised, double-blind controlled study
Addolorato G, Leggio L, Ferruli A
Lancet 370:1915-22:2007

Baclofen: a new drug for the treatment of alcohol dependence
Addolorato G, Leggio L, Agabio R et al
Int J Clin Pract 60(8):1003–1008:2006

Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome: A Comparative Study vs Diazepam
Addolorato G, Leggio L, Abenovoli L et al
American Journal of Medicine 119(3):276:2006


Complete and Prolonged Suppression of Symptoms and Consequences of Alcohol Dependence using High-Dose Baclofen: A Self-Case Report of a Physician
Ameisen O
Alcohol and Alcoholism 40(2):147-150:2005

Baclofen suppresses motivation to consume alcohol in rats
Colombo G, Serra S, Carai M
Psychopharmacology 167:221–224:2003


Baclofen efficacy in reducing alcohol craving and intake: a preliminary double-blind randomized controlled study
Addolorato G, Caputo F, Capristo E et al
Alcohol and Alcoholism 37(5):504-508:2002



E-Zine Articles

Alcoholism - A revolutionary new treatment - maybe even a cure?
Dr Phillip Thomas

Alcoholism - A chronic disease, not a lack of willpower
Dr Phillip Thomas

Alcoholism & 'Unintentional Suicide' - Polypharmacy at its worst
Dr Phillip Thomas

The Alcoholism Epidemic - A direct result of our Toxic Alcohol Environment
Dr Phillip Thomas

Last edited by Billdo; 02-28-2012 at 12:29 PM..
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Unread 03-02-2012, 03:09 AM   #18
CarlyO
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Billdo,
I always refer to the links that are available on this site - and will refer your points to Admin.
This has been on going debate and as our friend in PrinceC in Russia.

Thank you for providing such a thorough response.
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Unread 03-02-2012, 10:21 PM   #19
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I referred this to Admin. as they are diligent about addiction education and treatments-

As for my reply - To reiterate because there are approved medications such as Vivitrol, Campral etc... more info is listed in links above and in the medication assisted treatment links /educational info.
I did not feel comfortable nor is it my place to refer people to medications that are not yet approved as in the poster's "off Label" use of Baclofen.
For every success story- there have been people who have reported negative effects to the use of Baclofen.
I truly hope anyone who reads the title " Baclofen the miracle drug " for alcoholism - will proceed with caution and IMO utilize tried and true treatments, medications, supports that have been known to be successful. Again this is my opinion only.

There are clinical trials using it:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/result...clofen+alcohol

Carly
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Unread 01-21-2015, 10:02 AM   #20
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