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Unread 11-10-2008, 12:06 AM   #1
SubCurious
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Default Muscle Fatigue on Suboxone (and another minor one)

Good Evening folks

I swear, if there is an oddball side effect to meds, I'll get it.

Has anyone had issues with muscle fatigue on Suboxone?

This is the longest lasting side effect I've had, and appears to have actually gotten worse.

Most other side effects are gone/diminished (and some are better with other treatments - Colace + Fiber to counter constipation) - however this one is bothersome.

While I've never been an athlete, I am average weight and always been mobile. However, ever since I've started Sub, I've had issues with my muscles. The hardest thing for me is going upstairs -- it is compounded HUGELY if I'm carrying any type of weight (groceries for example). I will get winded going up 1 flight of steps if I'm carrying even small amount of weight -- I'll be highly/moderate winded going up 2 flights with no weight. While I don't feel like I'm about to die, I am breathing heavy and my heart is racing.
2 flights of steps -- and I'm mid 30's mind you...

9 months ago, before I was on suboxone, I could run up 3 flights of steps and I'd normally be ok -- occassionally lightly winded. So I know it's not my health / fitness level.

Now, i consider it muscle fatigue, because just after going up a few steps, my leg muscle's will start aching, and actually start to burn by the top of the steps. I'm fairly certain this has something to do with being winded. If this is some minor side effect that doesn't require alarm, I can live with it until I'm done my treatment -- but I'd hate to be over looking a serious condition (I'm a mild hypocondriact (sp) - not psychotic type, but I do *listen* to my body more than the average person heh -- you'll see in my next section).

Anyway, just curious if anyone else has experienced a side effect like the above.

My only other issue that hasn't gone away is my urine colour. It's much darker than usual. I've noticed it fluctuates by how much water i drink. For example, if I drink only 1 bottle of water, it will be dark yellow to an almost rusty colour -- if I drink 3 -- it's more of what I'd consider a 'natural' yellow. Now, I know urine gets darker if you are dehydrated, by it's never been this dark in my past. As a matter of fact, I've conciously been drinking more water, trying to keep my urine colour close to normal. I'm wondering if Sub messes with your how your body absorbs water??

My only concern for the above is my Billirubin has always been high - which I know is related to the liver -- and I've had people tell me in the past I look jaundice -- my family on the other hand, states I always looked that way and my skin color is just naturally "olive". In any event, when people say I look yellow, it makes me a bit paranoid (I'll normally go look at my eyes the next time I'm by a mirror - lol).

Anyway -- the first question is more important to me than the 2nd - so if you only have the heart to answer one, please be that one.

Good Night folks - I hope you are all doing well!
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Unread 11-10-2008, 12:34 AM   #2
Jdrelieved
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I am not sure how much help I will be given that I have only been on Sub for a week, but I will tell you what I have noticed personally...

I exercised today for the first time and really noticed a difference on Sub. I rode my bike for 2 miles today in a hilly neighborhood. I had to stop after that bc my legs felt like jello! Now I haven't worked out in a month or 2, so it could have something to do with that as well. I will let you know how I feel after tomorrow's workout.

JD
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Unread 11-10-2008, 01:50 AM   #3
scootergalp
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Hey Subcurious.......I'm in the same boat.It makes me really ache too. It's more in my legs than anywhere else. I've had a couple Dr's tell me that that isn't a side effect of the drug though. I don't believe that though. I've talked to people in my recovery program that have muscle fatigue too. Plus you're not the first person that has mentioned it on this forum.

What's your dose? Mine used to be 16 mgs a day. At 16 it was really bad. I used to feel like I just got hit buy a truck when I woke up every morning. The farther I went down though the better it got.
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Unread 11-10-2008, 06:14 AM   #4
wlly2532
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same here it was as though i had arthritis in every joint on a higher dose ,it got a lot better on lower doses
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Unread 11-10-2008, 10:10 AM   #5
gotitang
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OMMMMM heres my take....I was on pain pills for YEARS....Now as I grow older there are going to be some obvious changes in my body! Changes that I have NOT felt as a result of always being medicated. Pain pills were my wonder drug! They mask everything for me. I could work harder, dance harder, carry more groceries, run up stairs, vaccum and mop the floors without taking a break! etc.etc. What they also did was tell my head don't worry about waking up sore. YOUR pills are coming.... I would go to the gym (because I had a bright idea to get healthy) Of course quitting pain pills NEVER entered that healthy thought process! Anyway I would workout like when I was 20. ps im now 47..... So when I got home I'd just pop another pill if I got sore! And more in the morning....you get the idea! We are not healthy people to begin with. So when you take away the drugs our thinking stays the same. Oh I can do everything I used to do taking pills! NOT SO...I'm alot older and I feel everything! I've been on sub for 14months now and I wake up sore everymorning. I'm older and have put my body through the wringer. I should be sore. I use the heating pad every morning when I am typing and by the time I get to my morning shower I'm less sore. I breathe harder when doing anything. But I have been a smoker for years and I am sure that doesn't help. NOW I am not saying that you shouldn't go to the Dr. and have a physical...That is important....but don't be surprized if all you have is just a result of getting older. Pills made us notice more things than most people. Because with every pain WE were able to get more pills....That worked for us...Now we can't do that anymore but the habit of noticing every new symtem still lives within us!
This is just my experience!
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Unread 11-10-2008, 09:38 PM   #6
SubCurious
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Hello Gang - Thanks for the replies.

I'm guessing misery loves company - because I already feel better, not being alone. It's weird - while it wasn't the worse WD item, my knees hurting would last forever, and I hated it. However, I'm not "sore" - but more fatigued. My muscles will burn like I've over worked them (not the day after feeling where they are sore).

Regarding getting older - yea, I've given that some thought - but being mid 30's - I *know* I shouldn't be feeling this way. Yea, I'm 4 years older than when my addiction started - but my muscles feel 40 years older. Now, I know my body is feeling more pain than it should - and some are probably phantom pains -- however, my body is telling me something isn't right. heh

Again - it stinks to see other people with the same side effects as me - but I do feel a bit better (in a way, it almost makes me feel cruel hehe).

Thanks folks *hugs*
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Unread 11-10-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
scootergalp
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Hey Gotitang....I've had a lot of people tell me the same thing.That I was always covering up the muscle fatigue with the pills. That's not the case with me though. Before I started sub I was clean for 5 months,had a relapse for about a week and a half,then came back to my recovery program and was put on Sub. Anyway,in those 5 months when I wasn't taking anything I never felt any kind of fatigue or soreness...not even close.I'm in my mid 30's too.
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Unread 11-10-2008, 10:58 PM   #8
josie
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Not saying that anyone has hep c; but muscle fatigue, dark urine, jaundice, etc. can all be symptoms of the disease. People can be asymtomatic for ten to twenty years or longer and suddenly show signs of the disease. It is probably a good idea for all who have misused drugs to get tested to rule this out.

~josie
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Unread 11-10-2008, 11:22 PM   #9
sunflower1776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubCurious View Post
My only other issue that hasn't gone away is my urine colour. It's much darker than usual. I've noticed it fluctuates by how much water i drink. For example, if I drink only 1 bottle of water, it will be dark yellow to an almost rusty colour -- if I drink 3 -- it's more of what I'd consider a 'natural' yellow. Now, I know urine gets darker if you are dehydrated, by it's never been this dark in my past. As a matter of fact, I've conciously been drinking more water, trying to keep my urine colour close to normal. I'm wondering if Sub messes with your how your body absorbs water??

My only concern for the above is my Billirubin has always been high - which I know is related to the liver -- and I've had people tell me in the past I look jaundice -- my family on the other hand, states I always looked that way and my skin color is just naturally "olive". In any event, when people say I look yellow, it makes me a bit paranoid (I'll normally go look at my eyes the next time I'm by a mirror - lol).

Anyway -- the first question is more important to me than the 2nd - so if you only have the heart to answer one, please be that one.

Good Night folks - I hope you are all doing well!

SubCurious--I haven't read any responses to your post, so this may be repeating a little. First, your urine color--it will change color depending on your hydration status. the more hydrated you are the lighter the urine will be and vice versa if you haven't had much to drink your urine will be dark yellow to amber. If you see it getting dark like that, you need to incrase your water intake.

With regards to your bili levels. I do not remember what your doc is, but regardless, you need to have your liver function tests done--this will see if you've done any damage to your liver. If people think you look jaundiced, then please, even though your parents say it's your normal skin color, go to the doctor. You should let your doctor know about the urine color as well because that may go along with high bili levels (if you have a high bili level, it can turn your urine dark). So, I recommend seeing your family md and just letting him know what's going on just to be on the safe side. It is a good thing that you are noticing that your urine is getting lighter with increased fluid intake though. As for the muscle aches/fatigue---ask about that as well--hell if you're going to go might as well have a list! I have some muscle fatigue/weakness/aching the past few weeks, but I think it all goes along with the way I've been feeling--I'm not sure if it's sub related or not, but I would think not. But who knows! I learn something new about sub every day!

Please keep us updated, and PLEASE see your MD!
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Unread 11-11-2008, 10:23 AM   #10
gotitang
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Dam you young bucks! I want to be 30ish! wink
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Unread 11-11-2008, 09:36 PM   #11
SubCurious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josie View Post
Not saying that anyone has hep c; but muscle fatigue, dark urine, jaundice, etc. can all be symptoms of the disease. People can be asymtomatic for ten to twenty years or longer and suddenly show signs of the disease. It is probably a good idea for all who have misused drugs to get tested to rule this out.

~josie
That's actually a common theme with Doctors I've seen. When they've seen my liver tests, they always first assume Hep -- luckily for me, I'm disease free (minus my addiction).

My bilirubin has always been high - way before I did any drugs, and was discovered before I did any type of serious drinking (never was an alcoholic, but did drink heavily in my early 20's). So my bilirubin has nothing to do with my doc (atleast pre addiction).

Regarding looking jaundice -- I agree, my parents were wrong -- I don't look that way all the time - and I'm pretty sure it has to do with my bilirubin being naturally elevated.

Actually taking suboxone is a concern for me since my bili is high and I've had high ALT/AST results in the past. Granted, those were done during my addiction hay days - so I'm really hoping the APAP was the cause of those.

I'm also kind of afraid to be tested about sub and my health. If I was to discover sub was affecting my liver in a negative way, that would require me to short circuit my treatment -- and I really fear that I'm not "ready" to be at it alone.

I've talked to my new Dr and he's aware I was to reduce soon - and we agree a slow drawn out taper is the best method (though he's not aware of my pre-existing issues).

I soooo want to be 'normal' again - but it seems there are demons waiting for me around every turn. I hope to start reducing in the New Year. I'm currently at 8MG -- and hope to be off by next summer. I feel that is a realistic goal - even if it took a year, I'd be happy. I work/live in a very high stress situation - so while I do expect minor WD's -- they'll need to be very minor, else I'll stress out, panic then fall back into the trap.

Speaking of stress - I had a doozy of a day, so i apologize for the last few paragraphs being more of a brain dump then anything constructive. heh

*~*Hugs*~*
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Unread 11-11-2008, 09:56 PM   #12
SubCurious
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A question popped into my head shortly after my last comment here...

I take a max of 8MG a day. I try to do 6MG atleast 1 - 2 days a week in preperation to dropping to 6.

Is it possible that even this small amount of sub could be dangerous to me?

I did some searches and "dark urine" during suboxone is listed as "potentionally life threatening" - now I'm starting to get scared.

I'm also wondering if it could be some of the vitamins I'm taking. I guess the smart thing to do would be to stop taking all my vitamins and herbal medicine's and see if my urine becomes normal.

Another item to note is my urine isn't "always" dark. It can go anywhere from clear to dark amber in a single day. I'd imagine if I was having liver problems from the meds, it would be consistantly dark?

Sorry for so many questions folks.
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Unread 02-18-2009, 01:02 AM   #13
ironman
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I have the same issue. It occurred to me though that I sleep a lot less and I'm more active than before I was on sub ( 2 1/2 years now). I did notice when I let myself sleep for a full 8 - 9 hours (VERY rare) as I used to in my pre sub days, the symptoms lessened - all but disappeared for a day or two, Think about this:
They do have analgesic effect. If you have more energy (as I do) and sleep less, as an athlete I'm sure you know this.. you need to let your muscles recover or you actually burn muscle. I'm at an energy level on some days of a 16 year old and I'm a "senior citizen". On some days I do things at a level of activity that I couldn't even thought of prior to sub ! And I know its because of the sub. So, my working theory is to watch over extending myself and getting the proper rest so that the muscle tissue can recover - not tear down. Except I can't stick to this LOL !! The weird thing is that I do get a pain in one spot - my lower bi cept jsut abve the pit of my arm (above the elbow) soon after I dose. Its painful to the touch also. Weird.
Think I'm onto something here ??
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Unread 03-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #14
sassygirl44
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Smile sub or wd

Im thinkin if ur new to sub than you must be going threw wds too. Its hard for me to get my "wind back" and b able to exercise for at least 3 wks after I havent done vics.
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Unread 05-13-2009, 03:26 AM   #15
ironman
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Yes, I have this too. I also get pains in the exact same spot. A pencil tip sized pain just above the left elbow at the base of the bicep. Also a surface tingling sensation on my upper left thigh. the skin can actually hurt just by touching it - yet if I really push hard i feel nothing deeper into the thigh as you would think given the pain caused just by touching the skin. Strange. I've posted about a bunch of what appears to be 'side effects' several months back but feel I should repeat for the new comers that want to hear they are not alone !
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Unread 05-13-2009, 03:28 AM   #16
ironman
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ha ha !!! Didn't realize this thread had so little progress since I last posted ! I wrote the same as above
2 posts up - back in February ! Funny thing is I started reading it from the bottom up and was thinking "wow, this person describes the feeling exactly as I' then I hit the top of the thread - it was me ...dummy LOL !!
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