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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:10 AM   #1
erasers
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Default Newbie Here ~~ Day 1 of Suboxone



Hello everyone...i am Sandra. I live in Oregon and i had my first dose of Suboxone today. I am excited to finally be doing something POSITIVE instead of throwing my money and health away on that darn Vicodin!! I don't feel GREAT today, still quite a bit of withdrawl symptoms, but i am OK...and i feel strong...i truly believe i can do it with the help of the suboxone. I have tried many times to give it up, and i get thru the withdrawl...but just don't seem to be able to function...and i end up going back onto the vicodin. The doctor i saw today gave me 8mg tabs, and told me to return to see him in 2 days. He also says i need to join a support group, which i am happy to do....although his leanings are VERY christian (bibles in the waiting room, pics or jesus everywhere...a religious radio station on) and that just isnt my thing...he tells me "god will help you thru this"...well...i think the suboxone will help me thru this and i hope to find a support group that isn't too "preachy" ...any ideas??
Thanks for listening, and letting me know i am not alone in this[:X] Sandra
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:21 AM   #2
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Hi Sandra,

Welcome to the forum and welcome to getting your life back with the help of Suboxone. I too was a vicodin user. 100 tablets per day. Stick with the Suboxone, I have felt great, since 2 hours into my induction. However, I did inpatient. I have been going to NA meetings and I strongly recommend them. I have met some really great people and they can relate to what you have gone through. God or a higher power does play a part in NA, but, the groups I have shared with, do not ram that down your throat. You can also try AA meetings. I also attend those at a sober club and again, really nice people. Keep a log of how your are feeling and share everything with your doctor.

Best of luck & congratulations!

Mike
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Unread 03-28-2006, 09:47 AM   #3
got2dosumthing
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...he tells me "god will help you thru this"...well...i think the suboxone will help me thru this...

Thanks for that, first time I laughed like that in quite some time!

Keep us informed, friend. I too just joined this wonderful group of people, and hopefully will see Day 1 of bupe in a couple of
weeks myself--All I can say is, THANK GOD!....well....uh..I mean, Thank Goodness!

Oh, Sandra, just wanted to add that, though Im originally from the east coast, the thought of moving west has entered my mind. When I think of Oregon I get the most pleasant feeling but there is no good reason why, coz I have never been there and know nothing about the place. Figure that out.
Must be a nature-lovers paradise, huh? I even thought to do my bupe gig there, convince me to!
For some reason it feels like my destiny.
Jo
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Unread 03-28-2006, 10:17 AM   #4
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Thanks Mike and Jo for your support !! I can't seem to sleep tonight, i have had 2 doses of the Suboxone now. I am still REAL nauseated and havent eaten all day...i tried to eat a saltine and it tasted horrible...maybe this will be better tomorrow. But, the other withdrawal stuff is gone....God! those horrible leg cramps...do others get those? and that feeling like there is electricity coming out my fingers....i am soo glad to NOT be dealing with any of that. Jo...Oregon is a beautiful state...i have lived elsewhere, but i always come back here.I live in a beautiful green valley and have a little beach house on the Oregon coast (my place of refuge...it soothes me...the air smells different...i sleep like a rock) if i didnt have to work this week i be there LOL Come visit ...see if you might like it here...there might be a reason why you feel drawn to it.
Btw...do ALL the dosages of suboxone taste that bad? LOL
Night all....
Sandra
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Unread 03-28-2006, 10:41 AM   #5
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Sandra,
Welcome! I predict in the near future you are going to be a new person! It's kind of scary and exciting all at the same time. I always likened it to waking up and finding pieces of yourself with each passing day. A new re-discovery of yourself.

Once you get adjusted to the Suboxone, I promise it will get easier. Yeah, the taste is bad....you will soon learn to accept it or find a way to chase it away. As for finding the right dose, most here will tell you "less is more." If in doubt at any time, always try less of the med....it's a hard concept for the addicted mind.

Again, welcome and we look forward to getting to know you.

Dixie
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Unread 03-28-2006, 11:40 AM   #6
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Sandra, welcome! And god bless! HA! If you only knew me.... In any event, how much did Dr. Jesus tell you to take? It should be enough to stop the WDs and the cravings. The first couple of days can be a little weird adjusting. But try to eat something, drink plenty of fluids, and if you can take a little walk, that helped me. And also, check out SMART.org for an alternate to a 12-step group. Dixie knows more about than I, but it's based on REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy - am I right Dix?) Not god.
And there's always us, the eclectic collection. Welcome.

Jo! Welcome to you also!

-Mary
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Unread 03-28-2006, 03:14 PM   #7
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Hi everyone ! I made it thru the night, even maybe slept an hour or 2 , but i am OK. I took dose #3 of the SUB at 7am . I still feel very nauseous and have a bit of a headache, but i don't feel any cravings for vicodin or any other withdrawl symptoms. The doctor i saw yesterday didnt tell me about taking my other routine meds...he asked for a list of them, but didnt say if i should take them or not. I am talking about blood pressure , thyroid, asthma meds etc....(not stuff i would take occasionally like xanax or ambien ~ i KNOW i should stay away from those). I have meds for nausea that i use when i get a migraine (like phenergan) , but i am afraid to take it. Does anyone out there know about mixing routine meds with SUB? I see the doctor again tomorrow and can ask then, but i have gone now 3 days without my BP meds etc....any advice?
thanks Sandra
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Unread 03-28-2006, 03:40 PM   #8
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Did they tell you not to take your blood pressure med? If so,I dont understand that at all. You could cause yourself alot of problems. I take Verapamil for b.p. and zoloft for aniexty. Didnt stop either.

I think you should call your Dr. and tell him
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Unread 03-28-2006, 03:45 PM   #9
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No Brett............the doc didnt tell me one way or the other, and i guess i was too freaked to remember to ask. So, i am thinking NOT to take anything until i clear it with him...but, i would sure like to take something for this nausea
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Unread 03-28-2006, 03:52 PM   #10
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My doc. has given me permission to take different things. I know tranquilisers are bad. I am not a dr. but I think you should take your daily med. unless they tell you not to. Try to lay down it may help your stomach.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 04:10 PM   #11
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Sandra, Please give your doctor's office a call. Especially because of the high blood pressure medication, he should know that you haven't been taking it. They might be able to help you with the nausea also.
NancyB
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Unread 03-28-2006, 04:52 PM   #12
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Thanks Nancy and Brett and Yes i did call the doctor, and he okayed me to take my regular daily medications, but asked me not to take the nausea med yet, as he wants to see how long the nausea lasts for me ~ it might be a factor in his dosage change tomorrow. I can live with it and it won't kill me to not eat a couple days. I AM drinking lots of water. Thanks all for your concern and help. Sandra
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Unread 03-28-2006, 05:41 PM   #13
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Sandra, Do try to eat something - maybe some soup, or even just chicken broth? If you have some Gatorade, drink some of that too, and take your vitamins. (don't want to sound like a nag...)

NancyB
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Unread 03-28-2006, 07:31 PM   #14
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Mary -

haha! i finally caught you with your god down, i mean guard down...no, i was right the first time. we should seriously start an atheist, or maybe agnostic, suboxone thread. No disrespect to believers intended! but sometimes it is funny to vent when you've been preached upon. it's tough to convince people who are by nature so down on themselves (and I fully include myself), who have been so totally ravaged by life, that there is a god and he's actually looking out for you. i am thankful to have some kind of faith in my life now, but it came to me, it was not pressed upon me. i'm not at all religious, but like you, have some kind of positive-energy-based faith. i think that is all you really need. if you have something more defined, like religion, that works for you, why that's fantastic, too.

as we've all said many times on this site, "whatever works for you, works for you".

peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-28-2006, 07:44 PM   #15
got2dosumthing
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Hi again Sandra, folks.
Sandra, wish I could advise you but Im as green as a shamrock, the other folks seem to have the answers thank goodness. I cant say I ever had horrible leg cramps, maybe slight but thats it, my feet do hurt like hell often though. Try raising your legs for 5/10 mins, you know up a wall to maintain steadiness, heard that can help, blood flows out and down i reckon. Not sure what the electric fingers is all about either, maybe i ought to pay closer attention next time i feel like hell, again sorry I got nothing to say, Smart of you to call the office, hey how are you doing now (like noon there)? What are you up to for dosage? Are you starting at 16mg per 24 hours? Are you ok to write? If not dont worry about my questions, just rest up. Just that Im new and have a zillion questions, the few I have asked already most havent been fielded yet, shucks! One more-- did you say you're not working? That would be best during this early break-in period, I reckon. I too have experienced much nausea and usually just have some hot tea, seems to help at times. Seems there is nothing over-the-counter for nausea, Is there? I havent found it yet.
Thanks for the Oregon update, cant wait to get on over there, might get me a nice motor home and toot around the whole NW area, so many possibilities hard to decide, you know. Ok, let you go now.
Folks, please try to help me out k, answer any questions you know, thanks in advance. Im thinking of starting another thread, just listing several questions, so they're not spread out all over the place. Is that OK? (ooppss, theres another question!)
Like, I felt OK an hour after an oxy, then at hour 3 down I went again. These things are supposed to work for 12 hours! Sh****t, whats up????
I get like 2 hours of relief then back to withdrawals I go, what am I doing wrong!!! Sweats, feet cold, hot forehead, breathing difficult and slows, brain feels like the life is being sucked out of it, cant concentrate, vision blurs, can hardly move, moving like in slow motion, little energy, nausea, cramps in the belly, irritable, can't think clearly, get clumsy and drop things or bump my toes walking around house, doing anyting seems to require extreme effort, and many more symptoms, and thats just like only the first hour! If I would run out of meds it then gets 10 times worse within 24 hours, and you just wanna die, like really die.

But IM feeling so very encouraged and hopeful now that salvation ala bupe is just around the corner! So dont feel bad for me, k folks. I mean it.
For some reason Im sure it's going to be like a miracle cure for me, I really believe in the stuff. Just worried the doctor I get wont be what I need, you know long detox (maintenance), Im sure Ill need that, been on these things many years. dont worry to correct me, I wont get my feelings hurt, just want the Truth, and plenty of it! All the best, my new friends.

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Unread 03-28-2006, 07:47 PM   #16
got2dosumthing
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Ditto, heidi! Lets do it.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 07:51 PM   #17
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got2dsomuthing, I think that's a good idea, start a new thread with your questions, then it will all be together, and not tucked away in another topic. OK?
NancyB
(naabt.org)
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Unread 03-28-2006, 07:58 PM   #18
got2dosumthing
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Nothing like a good dose of hellish withdrawals combined with extreme anxiety to shake ones faith in a loving daddy god. No disrespect to anyone really with a religious life, I was there myself at one time, but so happy to have grown up and out of it, to be free of it and to take on the job of saving myself, myself. And no longer waiting around for some angel or something to save my ass (who btw if you noticed didnt bother to save a quarter of a million unfortunate children women and men in our last big asian tsunami).
I dont care to argue religion with anyone, just my thoughts and a chance to rejoice in my enlightenment.
So what would that atheist thread look like? Not sure what you have in mind.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:03 PM   #19
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got2dosumthing -

i was kidding, mostly. if you read long and hard enough, you might find intermittent jokes about religion by Mary or I. what would an atheist thread look like?....we had another hilarious off-topic rant by a bunch of very clever people about "string" - does anyone remember that???....i hate to draw any comparisons. anyway, you should feel free to take it seriously! if you start it, i will surely try to post. and i hope mary would send some beams, if nothing else.

peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:07 PM   #20
got2dosumthing
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Im really hoping to get some feedback v soon, coz Id like it before I call a doctor or book my induction, and Ive got to do that in a day or two!
OK Nance, If I can Ill do that, list em, but unlikely Ill recall too many at any one time, just keep adding posts to the "questions" thread, I reckon, as the questions appear in my mind. That will have to do.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:29 PM   #21
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got2dosumthing -

i just re-read your ealier post. you said you felt ok like an hour after an oxy? did u mean sub? i found that when my dose was way too low, it didn't last long at all. anyway, i might be confused about what you're saying. or are you still on oxy's and waiting to be induced?

if so, and if you can, i would (and this is obviously NOT a medical opinion) take the minimum amount of whatever it is (oxys?) that you've been taking that makes you feel comfortable until you receive instructions from your suboxone doctor. you'll have to stop taking anything in plenty of time for your induction, or it won't be pleasant.

anyway, if you want to clarify, or if i just missed something you posted elsewhere, i can talk with you some more...

peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:29 PM   #22
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got2dosumthing, you've got some answers here:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=756
Just keep adding to that post.
NancyB
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:40 PM   #23
got2dosumthing
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Can you say, What should I look for in a doctor when I call, what questions would you ask him/her over the phone on first contact? Like----
*what is your philosophy?
*do you do maintenance tratment?
*will i get a person when i call if i suddenly need help?
*will i get your cell phone number and can call you whenever or are you hard to reach? (no, that wouldnt work would it)
*how often will we meet up?
*do you do everything or do you pass me off to a less experienced person and i hardly see you? (no, that wouldnt work either, but I want to know!)
sh*t, I could think of so many questions he'll just say, "Oh, Im sorry, I hadnt noticed we are actually maxed out at 30 patients already, im so sorry)

I guess I dont know which are the MOST important things to find out before agreeing to go into his program-- HELP!

*do I get a script ever month or every week or what?
* what happens when I have to trael for 3 months or more and cant come to the US during that period? would you give me multiple scripts so i can bring all those meds with me? (he'll think I want to go into business selling them, wont he!)
*have I got to be a resident of the state you're in to see you?
(this is beginning to feel impossible. no wonder im too froze up to do this)
Docs gonna get p****ed if I ask him everything i want to know. what to do..........!


or are you still on oxy's and waiting to be induced?

Yes, thats it, Heidi. Yeah, I know to be in mild to mod withs.
Thank you too, Nancy.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 08:49 PM   #24
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got2dosumthing -

basically, ask the doctor for any and all requirements, including the length, of the program. i can tell just from your frantic tone that you are extremely anxious about this. but, unlike your drug of choice, the suboxone will not leave you feeling like you need your MD's cell-phone number.

a lot of people feel more comfortable knowing that their doctor is open when it comes to the length of treatment, and they would like their doctor to work with them when it comes time to taper down.

THAT SAID, I jumped at the first doctor that would take me. I figured I could always get on some more lists, if i decided the doctor sucked, but at least i would get to start! believe me, that will enable you to calm down and map this thing out. it turns out my doctor treats people for a minimum of one year, which is great, considering he's at a community health center with lots of people wanting to do this.

if you're faced with very few options, just START. that's the most important thing. be prepared to have to jump through some hoops for this - they won't be nearly as bad as the ones you've already been jumping through, and this is well worth it.

have faith (hate to say that, but i believe it), stay the course, and you'll be okay. you're doing the right thing!

peace,
heidi

p.s feel free to email me if you want to talk some more - it sounds like you could use some support...



p.s. and one more thing - i was a heroin addict, and believe me, THIS SH%#T WORKS. If that's what is holding you back, forget it! It totally, totally works.

p.p.s and another thing. JUST DO IT. seriously, though. it will turn you around.
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Unread 03-28-2006, 09:04 PM   #25
got2dosumthing
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yeah, of course, Im gonna do it, theres no question or doubt about that.
Not sure what you mean "be prepared to have to jump through some hoops for this". BTW, what is a fair price for this, the first day, as well as the whole program, just give me some ballpark numbers pls, ty

(sh*t, there goes my keyboard, will candle wax wreak it now? scuse me, got to get some ice)
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Unread 03-28-2006, 09:13 PM   #26
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got2dosumthing, unfortunately, there's no 'standard' pricing. That's a big question to ask. One place I called recently wanted $1,000 for the induction day, and $125 each week for 1/2 hour with the doctor and an additional $110 for mandatory counseling each week, for an undetermined length of time. There have been others much less expensive, with $400 for the induction and then $100 to $150 for each office visit thereafter. Which after the first couple of weeks was once a month. So, needless to say, the doctors make their own pricing. No set guidelines. It would help when making calls to ask upfront what the pricing is.

And Heidi gave you really good, solid advice.
Sorry, don't know about the candlewax though.
NancyB
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Unread 03-28-2006, 09:19 PM   #27
heidi
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by hoops i mean, you might have to go to meetings, or a weekly group, or individual therapy, or not! it totally depends on the doctor.

i have to take a p**** test once a week and attend a suboxone group (not an AA or NA meeting). starting next week, i only have to go for the p**** test every other week.

BUT, my insurance covers this, and I have an HMO, and was able to make my suboxone doctor my primary care provider, so all i pay are co-pays ($15 an office visit, $25 for my prescription, which i get once a week, soon to be every other week).

that's just a sample. everyone's experience is a little different. i'm more than happy to meet the requirements that are placed upon me, because the alternative was simply impossible. i would have lost everything - so this is a very small price to pay to have my life back.

i don't know where you are in that regard. anyway, best of luck no matter what you do...

peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-28-2006, 11:10 PM   #28
erasers
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Hi all it's now officially 24 hours since i took my first SUBOXONE and i am feeling pretty darn good !! My nausea is beginning to subside a bit, and i was able to eat a few saltines. My headache is nearly gone. I feel almost no withdrawl symptoms...or cravings...unbelievable! I go back tomorrow to the doctor, maybe he will adjust my dosage ( I have been taking 8mg tabs...1 every 8 hours, so i just took #4) I work night shift , 12 hour shifts 7pm to 7am and am scheduled to work wednesday and thursday nights this week. I think i can do it. I have also found an NA meeting to start with tomorrow, so i really feel i am on my way, but trying not to be too over-confident either....afraid i'll jinx it maybe? LOL Thanks to all the good people on here...and Jo, if i can do this, YOU can do it!! C'mon girl, sooo many better things we can do with that drug money (like take trips!) I am planning a cruiseeeeeeeeeeeeeee Sandra
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Unread 03-28-2006, 11:59 PM   #29
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Sandra, Glad to hear it! Let us know how it goes at the doctor tomorrow. And good luck with NA. Just remember if that meeting doesn't really work for you, you might want to find a different one in your area that might be run a little differently.
So happy you're feeling better Sandra!
NancyB
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Unread 03-29-2006, 12:05 AM   #30
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Hello Sandra!
Hang in there erasers! I posted to you earlier about making sure you don't swallow the Buprenorphine until it is fully dissolved. That should help the nausea a lot.
Sounds like you are on quite a bit of Suboxone. Did you mean 8mg every 8 hours? That is a great start up dose for keeping the symptoms of withdrawal at bay. I do not mean to imply that you are on too much, it is just that a lot of doctors start people off on 8mg the first day and climb more slowly from there.That is the beauty of this medication though, your doctor can customize to meet your needs. My patients who were on Oxy's and Methadone always had a tougher time of it on the first day or so than the ones on heroin. For that reason alone I think higher doses is probably better.
You really seem to have a great outlook and expectations.
Let me know if I can be of any assist.
Kathleen
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Unread 03-29-2006, 12:08 AM   #31
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sandra -
just fyi (you'll probably find this out on your own, too) when i first started taking sub, at doses like you're talking about, i would invariably throw up and/or get a wicked headache. i found that the headaches and nausea went away at a lower dose, and i felt great. i was a heroin user, if that's any indication, so even if your vicodin habit was pretty huge, you'll be surprised at how little sub you actually need to feel good.
as for the cruise - bon voyage!! that's something i've always dreamed about...
peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-29-2006, 12:33 AM   #32
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Sandra, what heidi said. That sounds kind of high. Maybe when you go tomorrow, he'll adjust it down for you. Make sure you tell him how nauseated you've been and that you can't eat. Don't play it down. They need to know everything. Especially since he thinks god will help you through the nausea. If the dose is too high, only less will help you through. Oh Heidi, did I say that out loud!! Seriously Sandra, just make sure you tell him everything! You don't want to get on a cruise ship already seasick. Good luck and let us know how it goes tomorrow. -Mary
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Unread 03-29-2006, 12:58 AM   #33
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Hi got@dosumthing,
You have asked for input with regard to your questions about talking to a new doctor about treatment. Here are my recommendations.
Q: What is your philosophy?
I wouldn't ask this on the phone. If the doctor is willing to see you to discuss treatment the one thing you know is s/he has a philosophy that includes treating opioid addiction with Buprenorphine.
Once you are at the appt., ask an open ended question like, What should I expect from treatment? The doctor should answer that question with info such as how to prepare for induction and how long you can expect to be on the medication, which will tell you whether s/he believes in long term maintenance. All of the other questions you mentioned will most likely be addressed by asking that one open ended question.
Do you have a lot of doctors you can choose from where you are?
If this is what you want, get in, get on, get details as you go, unless you have a nice selection of doctors to choose from in your area.
If you ask too many questions on the phone or even seem to be screening him too heavily while in the office you may be at risk for seeming to be too high maintenance. I think you had that same concern because you said; "Oh, Im sorry, I hadnt noticed we are actually maxed out at 30 patients already, im so sorry
If you come across as being a little high maintenance at first it is perfectly OK if you sense a wonderful comforting doctor with a great bedside manner and a lot of experience at this. They will know how to put you at ease and will understand your concerns. But if you have a doctor who is just getting his or her feet wet in this treatment modality, you may seem too complicated. I mean no offense to you at all!! The trainings recommend that doctors choose their first patients carefully to facilitate their learning curve.
Some patients don't want to go to an inexperienced doctor. But this isn't brain surgery. There is one advantage to going to a doc who is new at this. You can help him or her to have a great experience and feel encouraged to take on more new patients, maybe even your friends who will then be helped because of you! So many doctors find this to be the most rewarding part of their practice!! I have always had a special place in my heart for my first patients and these doctors probably will too!
You also wanted to know; will i get a person when i call if i suddenly need help? *will i get your cell phone number and can call you whenever or are you hard to reach?
After treating literally hundreds of patients where I work, I can count on one hand the ones who had a need to call us on our days off and we are only open 3 days a week!! But doctors always have a way to get in touch with them. You are a patient like any other patient.
One last thing is the travel situation. Are you really going to need to be out of the country for a few months at a time? That is likely to be met with resistance. Once you have been well established in treatment your visits will be less frequent. But initially it takes as long as it takes. This is an investment in your life and future!! Not a quick fix and forget about it. The science bears this out. Opioid addiction is a chronic brain disease and requires chronic treatment.
I hope this helps you
Kathleen RN
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Unread 03-30-2006, 04:45 AM   #34
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Hi everyone. Day 3 and all is well I had my 2nd appt. today with "Dr. Jesus" (thank you Mary for that....helps me to laugh) and he agreed with some of you , like Heidi, that my dose might be a little high...he has pretty much said i can regulate the dose myself, anywhere from 4-16mg and every 8 - 10 hours as i feel i need it, as long as i take at least 4mg a day. So, this afternoon i only took 1/2 a tab (4 mg i guess) and i am less nauseated. I still have a headache, but headaches are my problem in the first place (migraine) and i can't expect never to get one. I was reading some of today's posts, like the one from Woodson and here's my 2 cents...even though i apparently started on a highish dose, never at any time in the last 3 days have i felt HIGH, or EUPHORIC, or really even "GOOD". As i have said, i felt mostly headache and nausea, but maybe that was still withdrawl and/or my migraine. But more importantly, i do NOT feel like i need/want any Vicodin. And that is WONDERFUL.
Dr. Jesus and I spent more time discussing my other medications (i think i was waaay too out of it Monday to hear him even he told me about them) and like Kathleen and others, he told me to STAY on all my regular meds for my blood pressure, asthma etc. The only ones to avoid are my PRN (as needed) meds like Ambien and Xanax and i can do that . The doc and i also talked about long term goals (and i had SO much information in my head that i learned HERE) and he basically says as far as time goes, it's up to me. I can taper off the sub in a few months if i want, or stay on the rest of my life LOL so...i don't have to worry about that. Right now i am just getting thru each day and learning a lot and reading and i will decide about that LATER. He and talked again about support groups, i called a few NA and AA people yesterday and got some meeting times. Of course Dr. J suggested i try a few churches, but he didn't push it...as long as i join somewhere he's ok with it. I also called a friend/ex-co-worker who went thru detox or whatever about a year ago when she was fired from the hospital where we work for stealing Vic's. Her second offense. I never had the guts to risk my job, as long as i could buy them online anyway.(not to say i might not have got there someday) She told me about HER group, which is all professional women, and oddly enuf about 80% healthcare workers like myself. She'd like me to join her group, but......
Any of you have experience or feelings about this?
a) joining a group where you KNOW someone ?
or b) joining a group of just women, professionals etc?

Would that be a plus or a negative?

In general i feel pretty good today, strong. Actually i am at work, this is my first day scheduled this week, and it's a slow night, but i am handling it fine...although i still have 10 of the 12 hours to go !! Ask me about 0630 am !! LOL
I agree with many of your responses to Woodson, one has to be ready for this to work. And believe me, i am READY...i am So So tired of taking pills, revolving my whole life around getting them, worrying about running out, working tons of overtime and spending every dime as well as maxing my credit cards out on pills...The SUB is working for me! and i have HOPE again, a sense of peace, and such a feeling of CONTROL back in my life that i honestly didnt feel i would ever get again.

I thank whoever invented the stuff, i thank Dr. Jesus. and i thank all of you here for your information, support and friendship. I can do this. I CAN DO THIS. Sandra
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Unread 03-30-2006, 11:22 AM   #35
Mary
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Sandra! Dr. Jesus is just alright with you oh yeah. (old Doobie Bros.?? always hated that song). Annnyway. He's turning out ok. Glad I made you laugh with that one. We can't lose our sense our humor in this. And it does come back so quickly! That is really righteous (I can't stop!!!) that he has no deadline on your treatment. Very cool. All around that's great news, you're feeling well, at work. A lower dose. The best dose is the lowest dose which keeps the cravings and WDs away. So you're doing the right thing by taking a small dose. Because you can always go up. And it lasts so long that you might not notice this decrease for a day or two. The first week is can be a little tricky that way. But once you find the right dose, no problem after that.
As for the groups, I went to a group for a while at a private wellness clinic. My insurance covered most of it. I opted for that because I didn't really want to be around anyone I knew. But that's just me. I wanted to keep it more to myself. But maybe you can check it out and see if it works, it also depends, I think on how much you think your friend being there might stop you from participating.
Sandra, you are absolutely right. You can do this, YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!! Big energy beams to ya! -Mary
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Unread 03-30-2006, 11:22 AM   #36
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Sandra, I'm glad it's working out for you. Even with Dr. J. I haven't had the experience of which you speak, but, you might think of going, sit in the back and see how it is - a kind of test of the atmosphere and dynamics. And then there's SMART Recovery (www.smartrecovery.org) They have online and in-person meetings. It's based not on 12-step but REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy). And, copied from and old topic:
1. Rational Recovery (RR), a cognitive-behavioral approach.
2. Secular Organization for Sobriety (SOS), places emphasis on personal responsibility and critical thinking.
3. Women For Sobriety (WFS), for women with emphasizes on gender and self-esteem.
These support groups are not as abundant as NA/AA groups, thus it may be difficult to locate a group near you.

Most of all, I'm happy all is going well, and that you have no pressure to end your treatment on pre-determined schedule.
NancyB
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Unread 04-01-2006, 03:16 AM   #37
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Hello everyone. I am new to the forum but not to pills.To make a long story short I have been on methadone 30 to 40 mg a day for 4 years and to a point where I hate it. Meth has caused serious problems in my life. Sound like anyone else. I have gained 30# during my 4 year run with meth because it makes me crave sweets all day every day. Before meth I went to the gym 5-6 days a week weighed 202 with 12% body fat and flat benched 380#. Now I weigh 197 with 100% body fat and bench 155#.Meth has also caused me to lose great jobs due to runing out of med and cant work. I could go on and on but thats all for now. My main reason for typing is to see if anyone has any info on switching form methadone to subutex. How long should I wait before induction. My doctor said 10 days. Bull#$%^. Any info would be much help.


Thanks,ZZZ

By the way I am 29 male white.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 04:01 AM   #38
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Hi ZZZ and welcome!!

You'll find a lot of knowledgeable people here who really care (at least most of them, we've got our freaks too) I was in the same place you are now and I made the switch. Its harder with meth then heroin but if its done right the transition is smooth and you won't even have to miss work, except for the first day. You don't have to wait 10 days, that would be unnecessary hell.

I would set it up with the doctor for a Monday or weekend induction. That way you can stop meth Thursday or Friday and when you are in withdrawal you can start your bupe. It pays to take the time to learn about it and we will answer any questions you may have. The more you know the better experience you will have. To get you started I cut out the FAQ from this site with a link to another. Also I included the dosing guide and a bunch of other info. This site has plenty of stuff on it as well. Good luck.

Can someone switch from methadone to buprenorphine?

It is best to SLOWLY reduce your therapeutic dose of Methadone to 30 mg a day or less for at least a week, before discontinuing it completely for at least 36 hours before starting Buprenorphine. You MUST be in mild to moderate withdrawal before you take your first dose of buprenorphine. Its much more important to feel withdrawal before you start bupe then the time. How long before withdrawal starts varies from person to person. It is VERY important to follow these guidelines and prevent precipitated withdrawal.

see what is precipitated withdrawal:
http://naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#70

Dosing guide:
http://www.suboxone.com/hcp/pmtk/doc...sing_Guide.pdf

Practical Considerations for the Clinical Use of Buprenorphine
http://www.drugabuse.gov/PDF/Perspec...-Practical.pdf

Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction
http://naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf

also see:
http://naabt.org/education/buprenorphine_treatment.cfm


That should be enough to get you started, best of luck.
Sub-

if you cannot open the PDF files you can download the Free reader at the bottom of the links page: http://naabt.org/links.cfm
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Unread 04-01-2006, 04:49 AM   #39
ZZZ
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Sub Zero,
Thanks for the info. How long did you wait before you switched to sub. The reason my doctor said 10 dys is because he switched a friend of mine before he was in withdrawls and it sent him to the emergency room. He was on 80mg a day and waited 6 days he said.This is the reason Iam gunshy. I think my doctor is trying to cover his ass. What do you think.


ZZZ
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:03 AM   #40
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ZZZ,
I waited about 48 hours but I was only on 20mgs. Your doc is right to worry about high dose meth conversions. Quite a few people on this board have had big trouble when switching from 80mgs. All that matters is that you are in withdrawal before you take any sub if you are you will not go into withdrawal. Methadone sits in the cells in the body and slowly "leaks" out, so if you are on high doses it can still effect you weeks later. At your current dose you won't have that kind of reaction. If your doc is still worried he can switch you to a short acting opioid, like Vicodin, for a few days to cut down on the withdrawal. Or better yet he can get in touch with the mentor program and speak with other docs who have done hundreds of conversions.
Mentor program: www.pcssmentor.org

This is what it says in the dosing guide(page 5):
...At least 24 hours should elapse after the last long-acting opioid dose. The initial dose of Suboxone or Subutex should be administered when moderate signs (see COWS) of withdrawal are evident... It also says ...Patients transferring from methadone or other long-acting opioids to Suboxone or Subutex may experience discomfort for several days and dysphoria for up to 2 weeks. It is critical that your patient is prepared for this...

COWS is a scale used to measure how deep into withdrawal someone is: http://www.naabt.org/documents/COWS_...flow_sheet.pdf

If you can make it ten days without meth, you might just be able to quit. I know I wouldn't have made it past day 3. Hope this helps!
Sub
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Unread 04-01-2006, 06:03 AM   #41
ZZZ
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Sub Zero,
Thanks for taking the time to type me the info, it is a huge help.I think I will wait 72 hours to be on the safe side.I have the sub here at home. The doc wrote me a scrip the first day I saw him. He told me to fill it and bring it back to him in 10 days to take the first dose in his is offic.He also gave me 90 10mg lortab for the 10 days. I am on my 2 day and have not took any tabs because they only help for 30 min. I know this from the past because I was using tabs before meth. I started using meth due to the mg difference. I was taking 150mg of lortab 70$ compare to 30mg meth 15$, this was taking away from my 3 little boys. The guilt was making me very depressed. THanks for listening to me ramble on. Oh, does the sub give you energy and make you crave sweets. I am so tired of sweets.


Thanks,ZZZ
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Unread 04-01-2006, 06:48 AM   #42
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Oh I didn't know about the lortabs. I think he is right. I thought he wanted you to stop the meth cold turkey for 10 days. If you switch to lortabs for 10 days that will make the switch to bupe easier. Switching from meth to lortabs is easier then meth to bupe and lortab to bupe is easier than meth. If you do the lortabs for the ten days you'll only need to be off them for about 8-10 hours before your in withdrawal and can take the bupe. That would be an easier transision.

The MOST important thing to know now is you MUST be feeling some withdrawal before you take your first dose of bupe.
Sub-
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Unread 04-01-2006, 11:46 AM   #43
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ZZZ,
Just wanted to pop in and say welcome. You will find some great experience here on the Meth to Sub conversion.....
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Unread 04-01-2006, 01:09 PM   #44
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ZZZ,

I whent from 80mg of methohell to nothing in 7 days, I was off it for 2 and ahalf days before induction. I was in severe withdrawl 2 says after lowering my meth dose. 2 days before induction I was in fetal position with every withdrawl systom there is. If you are in enough withdrawl time doesnt matter. Im living proof of that. AT this very monment last satdurday I started SUB. Yes my eating habits have changed, I have no desire 4 sweets. Ive lost 15lbs. My beginning dose of sub was 24mg. My bones still hurt, but I feel so much better. Dont expect a mirical for at least 3 days. When you start soaking the sheets, burning up then freezing your ready. At least that was my experience.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 01:21 PM   #45
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ZZZ,
I for got to tell you, I had 60 10mg. percocet the First 3 days after I dropped my meth Dose. I one point I was so desperate 4 relief, I took 5 tablets, It was likr taking baby aspirin. Had no effect. I took the COWS test 2 days before SUB. I scored a 24. Somebody here my be able to tell you where to find this test. I will try to help u all I can.


brett
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Unread 04-01-2006, 03:44 PM   #46
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ZZZ

I think my doctor is trying to cover his ass. What do you think.
ZZZ
3Z:

I think your doctor's trying to cover your ass.

You've been getting great advice from people w/ experience going from methadone to subutex/suboxune. That is, by far, the most difficult transition, but it can be done without a precipitated withdrawal. Be VERY careful and listen to the advice you're getting. Push yourself to your limits pre-induction.

Good luck.

Robert
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