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Unread 01-13-2010, 01:01 AM   #1
nowhere2turn
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Question First day effects-vomitting

If you have read my other posts, you know my doctor is not very helpful. I took my first subs today, and I took 2 8mg tablets. That was at about 2 and 3 this afternoon. I was on this website about an hour ago and became extremely nauseated, so I went to lay down, and about 15 minutes ago started throwing up. I have nothing left in my stomach at this point because I could not stop throwing up. I called my dr who was no help at all, and basically said he didnt know unless he seen me if it was the meds or an infection, but he never heard of that before. Is this normal to happen to anyone? Is it a side effect that could happen until my body adjusts or could I possibly just be getting sick? Please help. I feel like I can not sleep until I have an answer
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Unread 01-13-2010, 03:00 AM   #2
taylor49
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Default The same thing happened to me...

Hello, I felt I needed to reply to your post, and share a similar experience I had.
I have been on sub since 3/16/2009. The first day on sub was ok. But the next morning after my first dose, I experienced severe nausea and vomiting. It was horrible. By the next morning I was so much better. A little shaky from dehydration. I took my sub that day as directed. There was a time or two I felt slight nausea, but no vomiting. I was concerned, and I called the doctor's office, they informed me they had never heard of that type of reaction. So, I felt like I was on my own. I believe that my body was just getting adjusted to the suboxone.
I have been fine ever since. I hope you feel better soon.

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Unread 01-13-2010, 08:27 AM   #3
NancyB
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Hi nowhere2turn, I replied to you in your other thread:

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...1&postcount=93

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Unread 01-13-2010, 11:53 AM   #4
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nowhere,
From what i have read here, vomiting can be a rather common side effect especially when the dose is to high. I am beginning to think your doctor does not have much experience or patients. But he is definiatly a start, As Nancy said in the other thread, your doctor had you go up in big increments. My doctor did 2mg and then 4. The first day I only took 1 pill, and then went up a little more the next day, this gave my body time to adjust. Hope your days goes better today!
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Unread 01-13-2010, 02:56 PM   #5
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I can agree that, based on statements someone types, that it may *sound* as though a certain doc *may* lack experience, or *could* have prescribed too much or too little, I would never suggest or imply that someone should adjust their dosage without first speaking to their doc. In the past few days, a couple different posters have mentioned things like difficulty understanding their docs, etc. In that case, I think we, as patients, bear the responsibility for taking whatever steps necessary to get advice that we understand, or clarification as to why or why not they might be telling us to do something. Even if something *appears* blatantly wrong, none of us can see anything close to the real picture.
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Unread 01-13-2010, 03:19 PM   #6
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Can't see anything close to the real picture? I don't know about that. Assuming a poster is sharing everything here that they did with their doc, it's very fair to say we can see the real picture. Sure we can't draw medical conclusions or change medication amounts, but we sure can offer opinions based on our experiences. And in this case, it doesn't seem too far fetched to guess that the OP was given too high of a dose, as many doctors seem to do. And when the doctor is no help despite the patient's efforts, the person comes here for experiences of others, not to be criticized.

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Unread 01-13-2010, 05:01 PM   #7
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That is exactly why I made the point! No one here can make anything like those kinds of assumptions. I can relate what has happened to me, or what I have seen, but to suggest that someone ought to consider changing a medication, in any context other than first discussing doing so with their doctor, would be wrong.
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Unread 01-14-2010, 05:35 PM   #8
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Hey, I just posted in your other thread. FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER you're probably on too high of a dose. Yeah, you might eventually stabilize on that dose, but you'll feel like crap before you get there and why bother if you don't need that much. Check your pupils. If your doctor is clueless, then find one who isn't. This is your life you're working on.

toms- don't know how long you've been around, but there are plenty of people who have really sucky doctors who don't know shit or won't answer their phone. So, what's the point in banging your head against a wall if it ain't gonna move? Obviously a doctor is the better person for advice, but if the doctor is nothing but a script writer, then people's experience and help is priceless. My opinion anyways.

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Unread 01-14-2010, 11:29 PM   #9
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I totally agree with you Mary. When I just called my doctor which you can read more about in my other post, he told me to take another sub and an 2 Ultrams. Really? In regards to toms post, I have given the entire picture. i have been entirely honest with this group who i completely trust and with my doctor since day one. I have nothing to hide. And I basically have a dr who I paid a bunch of money to in order for him to give me a script and say see ya when ya need more and just take them as you need them. I have no idea how many I should be taking which is why i am paying him. You know I looked at the scale that you are supposed to measure someone in withdrawals by, and you know that they did not even take one vital on me while I was there? I call him to tell him that I think that I may be in precipitated withdrawal or on too high of a dose and he tells me take more. I tell him more gives me a terrible migraine and very nauseated and he tells me to still take more and to take Ultram with it, which from what I have been told, some people use subs to get off of Ultram even though it is not classified as a narcotic you can get the same effects if you take enough of it. So thanks Mary for your post, and I guess I am going to have to find a new doctor because I feel very hopeless with this doctor and if it wasnt for this website, I would be more lost and confused than what I already am. I have people here willing to help me get better which is more than I can say for my doctor!!!!
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Unread 01-15-2010, 02:02 AM   #10
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Nowhere,
I am so sorry that things are going like they are. I feel like I built this all up so much, that of course you can't feel anything but dissapointed. And yes I am afraid I have to agree, your doctor does not seem to be much help.

I personally think that I could have most likley been started on 8-12 mg and maybe even less. It's like 16mg seems to be the magic number for many doctors. I.M.O. I think that many people could be started and stabilized at lower doses, depending of course on the person. I sometimes wonder just what the training for the doctors consist of? Do doctors treat people strictly based on a training that is a "one size fits all" or do they combine training with education, compassion and experience. I think there are some really good doctors out there, that understand addiction as the disease it is. I also think there are other doctors who don't understand or see addiction as a disease, and treat the patients accordingly. I can see where giving dosing advice here could be dangerous, as we all want to help and definiatly not comprimise somebody's health, everyone is different and will have different outcomes, the best I can offer is personal experience, and what I have learned through educating myself about this medication and how it works and of course the many, many, post I have read here over the last year and a half. I always feel like any advice from Nancy is like gold, and as you spend time here you will run into people that you come to respect, for their knowledgeable post. I find A.S. to be a very reputable site. A big red flag for me, is that your doctor persribed tramadol, and that bis also addictive. You must be so frusterated after all you have went through to get to this point, and then having a doctor, that you feel is not helping you. Reality tells me that you are not going to be able to afford a new doctor for awhile, so I hope with the help you receive here, we can get you through this. Even though you are off to a bumpy start, tomorrow will be your 4th day, and i am hoping your body is beginning to adjust, and you will feel better. I think if you can get your dose right you will begin to stabilize on one dose. The spitting out, has helped others with the headaches, have you tried that? Please, please, please don't give up, this will work for you, and you will get stable, it will happen. I would love to offer all the support I can. Are you off work? I hope Monday is a holiday for you, this will give you some time, to get back on your feet.
I hope you feel better soon!
Vhappy

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Unread 01-15-2010, 10:41 AM   #11
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I agree that your dose could probably be too high. I experienced nausea as well but found out mine was from swallowing my saliva. The naloxene doesn't set well in my stomach so when I started spitting out my saliva it really worked.
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Unread 01-15-2010, 12:44 PM   #12
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Doesn't the "buprenorphine training" consist of eight hours of instruction? If the doc that the OP is seeing is so lackadaisical about the whole process, it is certainly an illustration of the pointlessness of the process. Its hard to imagine a physician putting the time and effort required to obtain certification, then behaving in that way. Hopefully, you live in an area where you have the option of switching!
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Unread 01-15-2010, 07:27 PM   #13
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I can see any doctor spending 8 hours of one of their days in order to get as much money per patient as these doctors are getting. That is a lot of money, and if they are only interested in the money and not the true well being of their patients, I think they would waste 8 hours of their time in order to become certified. I think that the training for addicts and this drug should much more intense than an 8 hour training however. That is my opinion though. I do live in an area where I could switch to a different doctor, however, the issue is that I would need to come up with another 600.00 in order to get into one which is not possible at this point in time, so I guess I am going to have to work with what I have right now, which is the doctor that I have, my counselor, my coach from here to help, and the wonderful people and support that I get from this site!!!!
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Unread 01-16-2010, 09:03 PM   #14
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How are you feeling?
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Unread 01-16-2010, 09:36 PM   #15
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Still wishing that I could get stabilized. I am still not feeling what I would call normal. I still have the headache not as bad though is the only good thing, and my eyes are still extremely swollen and hurting very bad. I have just been keeping a cool rag on them at night time when I sit down to relax for the night. My friend at work gave me some type of pads that she got from like an avon type thing that she said works for swollen eyes or hurting eyes, she said her mom uses them when she gets a migraine, so hoping that they will help me out tonight. Other than that, just still trying like I said to figure out what my dosage should be and stay positive as I try to do it!!! Thanks for asking though
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Unread 01-16-2010, 10:26 PM   #16
lifevest
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Well all the best to you. I'm in a similar situation, if that's fair to say, still dealing with some nausea and other side effects, now 11 days into sub treatment. My doc cut me from 16 to 8 and I can say I feel a lot better, and generally don't have any cravings although I did today but am still so new at this that I can't really call it a craving when it may have been more "missing using" or being frightened by the proposition I have hung up my drinking and drugging cleats forever! Of course on one hand that makes me very happy, but there is also trepidation and fear because sobriety leaves me with a lot of time to make myself a better person. Anyway, sorry to digress and talk about myself. I hope you continue to stay positive and feel better.
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Unread 01-17-2010, 08:51 PM   #17
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No need to apologize. I think we all need to talk about our feelings in order to continue to recover. I feel the same way. The day that I was going to get on subs, I was so happy and excited yet scared at the same time. As they told me, it is a major life change, and even though I knew it was for the best, it was very scary to know that your life is about to change in a major way. The difference is that this was the first time I think that it was it my choice to make a life change. usually things happen that we have no control over that change our life, and this time I had complete control and was making the decision which made it even more intimidating I guess. Best of luck to you hun!!!!
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Unread 01-18-2010, 12:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary View Post
Hey, I just posted in your other thread. FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER you're probably on too high of a dose. Yeah, you might eventually stabilize on that dose, but you'll feel like crap before you get there and why bother if you don't need that much. Check your pupils. If your doctor is clueless, then find one who isn't. This is your life you're working on.

toms- don't know how long you've been around, but there are plenty of people who have really sucky doctors who don't know shit or won't answer their phone. So, what's the point in banging your head against a wall if it ain't gonna move? Obviously a doctor is the better person for advice, but if the doctor is nothing but a script writer, then people's experience and help is priceless. My opinion anyways.

-Mary
I agree. Wow high dose.
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Unread 01-18-2010, 11:15 PM   #19
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nowhere, I absolutly agree with you about the eight hour training! I think some doctors just take it to make money. I have a good doctor but...he doesn't take my insurance and when I was in the office, a lady that works for my doctor came back and told me that my insurance would pay, my doctor just doesn't let her run it. The sad thing is, I am not going to do anything about it. I need this medication right now to survive, without it, I would, back where I was (and I know I can't do that again) I feel like if I were to complain or start making waves. I could be dropped. I am not willing to take that chance. It is sad, that we still have to be treated like 2nd class citizens. I hope what we go through now, will someday make a difference for others!
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Unread 01-20-2010, 12:04 AM   #20
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Have you ever tried to just submit the claim to your insurance company yourself? You can submit it to your insurance if you have paid self pay and then they will send the reimbursement directly to you. That would be great if you could do that. I can't believe that your dr can accept your insurance and just wont take it!!! Is the suboxone basically the same price everywhere? I know that for me, 30 8mg pills is 210.00. Is that about the same everywhere? I am just wondering if all dr's charge the same or if I could possibly shop around which I plan on doing before I get my next script anyway, but just wondered. I agree though, yes we are addicts, but by no means are we bad people. We deserve the same treatment as someone coming in to get treated for cancer or any other disease. And I'm sorry but if these other doctors hadn't of handed out these pills to me like candy anytime that I wanted them, I may have not became addicted. Yes I have a lot of medical issues and pain, however, I think that those narcotics should not be given to anyone if there is something less potent that can help them unless they are in severe an I mean severe pain. I would of never known what one of those even felt like if they didn't give them to me, and the first time they gave them to me was over something so small, I didn't even take them. I had the bottle of like 30 for ages, until I got in a wreck and then started taking them all the time, then another dr gave them to me for migraines, and by that time I was hooked on them and had to start finding other means to get them once I knew that my dr would not fill my script as soon as I would need it filled. I do not blame them,I made my own decisions, I just think that it is crazy that it is 10.00 to get a script to start you on your way to addiction, but then it is outrageous to say the least to try and actually get help to get off of it. If you add up the first fee, plus all of the medication and dr visits, it is unreal. I mean it is worth it, but not all people can afford this program. I know that I am struggling trying to make ends meet and figure out how I will get my next script if the needy meds does not come through for me. Makes no sense to me. Like it is a way for our dr's and government to continue to make money or something. Just my opinion as always of course!!!!
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Unread 01-20-2010, 07:46 AM   #21
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Hi nowhere2turn, definitely shop around. Prices do vary from pharmacy to pharmacy and even within a pharmacy chain depending on location.

Have you seen the link for the free med program?
http://www.needymeds.org/drug_list.t...&name=Suboxone

Also, there are prescription discount cards in this thread:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...splay.php?f=79

Hope that helps.

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Unread 01-20-2010, 09:12 PM   #22
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I did start calling around to pharmacies and so far they are more expensive than the $210.00 that my dr is charging me for the 30 8mg subs. I don't know what i am going to do, unless I stay on the 8mg per day, I can not afford to pay 210.00 twice a month plus the 55.00 urine screen 2x a month, plus the 55 office visit 2x a month. I did sign up for the discount card, but didn't know I would need to print it out right then, and I have no printer, so I hope that I can print this out at a later date by entering my information again. Also, I called and asked what the price would be at a pharmacy that uses this and she said without the prescription in hand that they would not be able to tell me, so I would have to literally go driving around from pharmacy to pharmacy with my prescription and the drug card in hand in order to get it filled. That is so crazy to me, but hopefully it will be worth it. I would just hate to leave the office with the prescription in hopes of finding something cheaper only to find out that I could of gotten it cheaper at my dr office 1 1/2 hrs away. I tried to call there today to check on the status of my insurance prior-auth and if that didn't go through the form for needy meds, only to recieve no return call, so I will have to call again tomorrow because I will need to go there this weekend to refill my prescription and talk to my dr. I also thought the subutex was cheaper, but as I looked at prices online, I did not see where it was cheaper than the suboxone.
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Unread 01-20-2010, 11:16 PM   #23
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Hi nowhere2turn, a few things I thought of, Tim has posted this, and I wonder if it's something you can ask your doctor if you can do it so you can save on the drug testing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIM View Post
Save money by purchasing your own drug test kit

If your doctor drug tests you, you may be able to save money by purchasing the test kits yourself. Your doc would have to be agreeable. Labs can be expensive and if your physician is willing there are many home test kits available on eBay. Doctors have told me they are pretty accurate and are comfortable using them for this purpose. I don't believe they meet the criteria for court or parole though. here is an example: http://www.drugtestingworld.com/

Tim

Subutex (brand name) is more expensive than Suboxone. But the generic Subutex should be much less expensive than both.

Also please call your insurance company and see what you can do to expedite the prior authorization.

As for the doctor visits, because it's so far away, ask your doctor when you can go once a month. If you need to, this is from the TIP40, pdf page 90:
http://www.naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf

Frequency of Visits
During the stabilization phase, patients receiving maintenance treatment should be seen on at least a weekly basis. Part of the purpose of the ongoing assessment is to determine whether patients are adhering to the dosing regimen and handling their medications responsibly (e.g., storing it safely, taking it as prescribed, not losing it). Once a stable buprenorphine dose is reached and toxicological samples are free of illicit opioids, the physician may determine that less frequent visits (biweekly or longer, up to 30 days) are acceptable. Visits on a monthly basis are considered a reasonable frequency for patients on stable buprenorphine doses who are making appropriate progress toward treatment objectives and in whom toxicology shows no evidence of illicit drugs. However, physicians should be sensitive to treatment barriers, such as geographical issues, travel distance to treatment, domestic issues such as child care and work obligations, as well as the cost of care.


I hope this is helpful.

Nancy
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Unread 01-24-2010, 05:35 PM   #24
nowhere2turn
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Thanks Nancy. I am going to call my insurance first thing in the morning. I did call my dr on Thursday to check on things, but havent heard anything yet. So I will call the insurance to follow up. I did print off the free drug card, and am hoping that with that, I can possibly get the prescription tomorrow for less than what it would have cost me to get it at the dr's office. I know that regular price is more expensive but hopefully with the card, I can get it cheaper.
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