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Unread 12-23-2008, 11:00 PM   #1
seandes
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Default is this a pharmacological site?

I am not looking to be a stick in the mud!!! I am an alcoholic and an addict who has been sober since 15 May 1993, and it suprises me to see so much emphasis on medications(substances). I do not believe in "better living through chemistry", which is how I lived for many years before sobriety. I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous,which has a strong,proven track record. I know meds are helpful,even neccesary in SOME cases,to aid in detox, but it seems that this site stresses these meds(Vivitrol,Camparol,(sp)) as if this is an ad. Since I DO NOT claim that I have ALL the answers , or am I claiming that anything is wrong with meds,but is this trading one crutch for another??
I don't mean to start a controversy, I am asking. ANY site that supports recovery is a good thing,as long as the motives are good and not suggesting substituting.
I'll be glad to hear replies.
Thank you, Sean
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Unread 12-24-2008, 02:07 PM   #2
JaneDoe
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seandes, I did the AA thing. I did other things. What finally worked for me was a medication. What is wrong with taking a medication if it helps? Absolutely nothing. I had the Vivitrol shot for 3 months which gave me time NOT DRINKING to get my act together.

The 'proven track record' of AA is unproven. It's hard to prove success with an anonymous group. I'm not knocking it. It didn't work for me long term, but it works for a lot of others.

Naltrexone and campral are NOT mind-altering substances. It's not like I traded bourbon for Miller light. It's not a crutch, it's a tool.

I'm sorry but when I see people like me who couldn't get a grip on their problem, I'll share what worked for me. If people can do it without vivitrol or campral, great.
If not, it's better than drinking themselves dead or killing someone when drinking and driving.

Congratulations on your long-term success. But after 18 years, do you still go? Would you drink if you didn't go? Would you call AA a crutch. Not looking to start anything, just asking.

JaneDoe
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Unread 12-24-2008, 02:36 PM   #3
TIM
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Thumbs up Congratulations on 15 years of addiction remission!

Sean,
Congratulations on 15 years of addiction remission!

I’m sure from your experience in AA that you will admit it doesn’t work for everyone who walks through the doors. Medication assisted treatment is not for the people like you who don’t need it, it is for the others who cannot stop with AA alone. And medication is not a replacement for groups like AA, it fulfills a different purpose.

I think you are letting the stigma of addiction influence what you think is appropriate treatments. If we were talking about another chronic disease like diabetes (like addiction also has behavioral and genetic factors that contribute to its development) would you call insulin a crutch? Would you promote diabetes patient group meetings instead of proper medical treatment? Is chemotherapy a crutch for cancer patients?

I think too often the discussion becomes one of substances instead of one of addiction. Substances themselves are not the problem, it is the damaging addictive behavior they help create in some people, that is. Addictions like gambling can be just as devastating and don’t involve any substances. Stopping this behavior is what addiction treatment is all about.

Some people can stop this behavior with sheer will, some will need medication, some will need support from peers and family, some will need therapy, most will need a combination of all or most of the above. All treatments are tools and all can be helpful but only if used right. Knowing what each tool is for is the only way to know how to use it correctly. Medication is not a substitute for AA or any of the other components of a complete treatment plan. Each component has its own purpose. Knowing how to use these tools to fit an individual’s treatment plan is the key to successful treatment.

Medications may not be needed for everyone, but everyone suffering from addiction should be medically evaluated to rule out the need for medication based on medical evidence and their individual circumstances.

Congratulations again for being an addiction survivor!
Tim
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Unread 12-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #4
theswan
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Hello Sean

I am an active member of AA and have held many positions of trust in my 21 years. I've worked in group. district and area positions. I still go to meetings have a sponsor and enjoy the fellowship. I am on Suboxone-That is my business and I share it with my sponsor. "Live and let live" Early on I resented people on merhadone and said "it's a crutch" That was early on and I had many fingers pointed at others (but each time there were three pointed back at me lol)

A severe "T" bone car crash changed mey mind as I had to climb the slope of Narcotics to get pain control. This sad journey took me to the brink of suicide but I held on to my higher power. In March this year after googleing" "safe narcotics" I found a study and suboxone-Thank God. This is the first narcotic medication that has a ceiling effect that stunts tolarence thus, I have no need of ever increasing dose's.

Walk a mile in my shoes and then decide if I choose a crutch. I choose a reasonable happy live as pain free as I can get.

Others had just plain old addiction to narcotics and choose Suboxone to taper or maintain-That's their business-plan and simple! A pristine sobriety is perhaps obtainable and bravo if you have one. I gave up smoking. Should I hold my nose up to those that do? of course not. How would I be living the 36 principles of the Steps, Traditions and concepts of world service?

Good on you for the legnth of service to AA I wish you the best and hope I explained this to your satisfaction.

Merry Christmas

Glen
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Unread 12-26-2008, 07:46 PM   #5
seandes
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Lightbulb meds

Merry merry happy happy to all,

I hope I did not come across as a "bleeding deacon", as that was not my intention. I do not, and will not , question a Dr's use of meds for ANY reason,for any disease or condition!! I have seen meds work wonders in peoples lives(depession,anxiety,etc). I do know I am a plumber and I am NOT qualified to question anyones use of meds. I just have known MANY people who,instead of working on recovery tried(and some found) an easier softer way. I would love to have science one day come up with a med that "cures" alcohism and all addictions,along with dieases. ANYONE who is in recovery, from whatever demon, and from whatever method needed,is IMHO a miracle. Be it AA,NA, church,phsychiatry(sp) or meds deserves an attaboy or attagirl.
I had never heard of this site or these meds and I wasn't sure of its origins! I mean this sincerly, thank you for your replies AND for attacking my lack of knowledge,as has been done on sites of many different interests.
God Bless all us drunks,junkies, overeaters, gamblers,etc
SEAN
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Unread 12-26-2008, 08:38 PM   #6
SLynn
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Sean

When you decided to end your addiction, a lot of these treatments weren't available to you. When you were desperate, who knows what you would have chosen if the opportunity presented itself??

As the others have so eloquently stated, these items are but a tool. Cure? That would be nice but addiction is a behavior.

Whatever it takes to stop the cycle. Congrat's on your years of sobriety.

SLynn
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Unread 12-26-2008, 11:20 PM   #7
theswan
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Hi Sean

I'm happy to hear back from you. Thanks for the open mind to other course's of action. AA is teriffic and I owe a great debt to my beloved fellowship. Most folks in AA have an open mind and do not judge others. There are a few folks that are, shall we say, A little hardcore. These folks like to follow the AA beam and have adage's such as "You can't get high and sober at the same time" Duh! We all know of them they are oft called "Table thumpers" or worse AA police!

I happened to get sober in such a group. They were hardcore to the max and I believe I needed that structure in the early days. My sponsor was a lot more laid back and loved to break the unwritten rules like "We show respect to AA and wear nice clothing on celebration nights" My sponsor would accept his coin in bright colored shorts! He was a rebel and made me laugh at myself. Yes, I was ridged also early on. I moved upstate in my second year and was quite upset at how they ran AA up there.
"Gee, it was not how I got sober" But people were sober and helping newcomers to get sober. It worked! It can work in as many ways as there are folks in AA "A wrench for every nut!"
I may secretly still judge folks; This is human nature and also a way to "stick with the winners" How can we know who the "winners" are except by judging?

I don't know if I got my point across but the bottom line is: We should always look inside first.

Sean, you know we have an alcohol forum and you are welcome to post there or here as you wish. I tend to come here just because I can't discuss my medication issue's in AA. Yes, I speak with my sponsor and close friends but I believe in SOP (singeliness of purpose) We ought not get into other issues as it tends to dilute the message.

Have a happy new year!

Glen
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Unread 12-29-2008, 06:32 PM   #8
JaneDoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seandes View Post
Merry merry happy happy to all,

I hope I did not come across as a "bleeding deacon", as that was not my intention. I do not, and will not , question a Dr's use of meds for ANY reason,for any disease or condition!! I have seen meds work wonders in peoples lives(depession,anxiety,etc). I do know I am a plumber and I am NOT qualified to question anyones use of meds. I just have known MANY people who,instead of working on recovery tried(and some found) an easier softer way. I would love to have science one day come up with a med that "cures" alcohism and all addictions,along with dieases. ANYONE who is in recovery, from whatever demon, and from whatever method needed,is IMHO a miracle. Be it AA,NA, church,phsychiatry(sp) or meds deserves an attaboy or attagirl.
I had never heard of this site or these meds and I wasn't sure of its origins! I mean this sincerly, thank you for your replies AND for attacking my lack of knowledge,as has been done on sites of many different interests.
God Bless all us drunks,junkies, overeaters, gamblers,etc
SEAN
Happy new year. I'm glad you got your questions answered.

Whatever works for someone is what works. Congratulations on your long-term sobriety. I hope to be there one day.

JaneDoe
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