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Unread 07-02-2013, 02:00 AM   #1
Amy412
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Lightbulb Starting my Taper! Seeking Support.

Hello,
I havent been on this site for a while, but tonight while searching about tapering from subs I found an amazing, inspirational post, but it was from 2008. I figured I would reach out for all the support, help and advice that i can get. ...
I'll share some background...
Been on subs for about 4yrs. They have definately saved my life, and it is now time to start tapering off. I was on 20mgs a day for most of the 4 yrs. I was uneducated about subs when I was induced and have had a love hate relationship at times with subs, but all in all they have saved me. I have completely changed my life. I do not think about getting high, I do not crave. I have a great support system. I cut out all the bad people, places and things from my life years ago. My whole life has changed and it is now time to live completely opiate free.
About a month ago I found out I was pregnant, but unfortunately miscarried. This brought upon a strong reality and urge to start tapering. I am now on 10mgs a day. I went from 20mgs to 10mgs in less than a month with out any issues at all. I dont have a set date of when I am jumping off because I am going to let my mind and body tell me when I'm ready. My plans for now is to drop 2mgs every 10 to 14 days. Once I get to 4mgs or 2 mgs (whenever things start to become uncomfortable) then I will taper slower. I'm hoping to stick to the 14days for each decrease, but we will see how it goes.

I have been researching tapering and jumping from subs for the last month. I have read some horror stories! They honestly scared the crap outa me, but I have also found some amazing success stories. I want to stay as positive as possible during this time. I have a one year old to take care of everyday and I want to give him my best each and every day.

My main problem right now is relying on dosing twice a day. I know subs have a long half life and there is no reason that I need to dose twice a day. I know it is all mental. Never the less, I start to feel crappy around 6pm, so I have been taking 6mg in am and 4mg in pm. I want to stop this habit asap. I dont want the subs to take over my life. I want to take it in the am and not have to worry about my next dose til the next day.

So that is my story/journey so far. I would love to hear any success stories! Withdrawl scares me so bad. I cringe at the thought. I do know that I will expirenece some w/d, but want to make this a smooth as possible. PAWS also scare me, and I am "iffy" on believing some of the horror stories I have read online, so I am also interested in hearing any personal expiernce with paws also. If you would like to share your taper plan I would love to hear it. Pretty much anything and everything related to tapering and after the jump (the good and the bad) would be helpful. I obviously would love to hear from anyone who feels their story is inspirtational as when I read the horror about w/ds and paws it makes me physically feel bad (another mental thing). Any suggestions on how to train my mind and body to get to one dose a day would be so appreciated.
Ok, I think you all get the jist.

Thank you so much and I look forward to supporting eachother!
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Unread 07-02-2013, 07:25 AM   #2
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Hi Amy412, I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I hope you're taking good care of yourself.

That's great that you got to 10mg quickly. Have you been taking a split dose the whole time you've been taking Suboxone or have your tried taking all 10mg in the morning to see how you feel? Taking it all in the morning might take care of the twice a day dosing.

Did you see this thread of Mary's? It's old but I think the advice still rings true.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=16077

There's also the "People who have tapered off" thread. It has good and bad stories and can be helpful in what to do and what not to do.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=16678

A couple of things that have helped a lot of people is exercise and not overthinking the process. Exercise will help get your natural endorphins going and not overthinking the process will help psychologically so you're not constantly paying attention to how you feel and perhaps having your mind 'trick' you into thinking you feel worse than you do. Our minds are so powerful sometimes.

Have you engaged in therapy while in treatment? This is another good thread about the phases of treatment:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=23809

I hope this is helpful. I think you'll do great if you just go slow and not force the taper.

Nancy
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Unread 07-02-2013, 07:37 AM   #3
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Hey there, DO NOT LET THE HORROR STORIES SCARE YOU. I have been doing a slow taper and when I say slow I mean for the last year or more. I havw beeb on subs over 3 years. I'm takin it at my own pace because , like you I was terrified . I'm a huge baby and don't want to feel any discomfort. Okay so I originally was on 8-12 mg a day for probably 1.5 years or a little more. I started going down and finally got the strips which are 100 times easier to taper with than pills. I probably went down 2mg every 2-4 weeks depending on how I felt. Then I got to the 1-2g a day point and I messed with the dose. I tried taking .5 twice a day or 1 once.a day. I actually probably changed it up every month or so . If I was having a day where I felt like I needed a little more sub I would take .5 twice a day otherwise I tried to stick to 1 per day. I stayed at 1mg per day or slightly less so 3-4 strips eery 4-5 weeks for at least 6 months. About 2 weeks ago I cut the dose even lower but switched to every 12-16 hours. I've been on the same strip for almost 2 weeks and I'm taking tiny tiny piece like slivers I can cut with scissors and if they fall onthe floor I can't even see them. The other day I didn't feel like I needed my dose and I went 24 hours no issues. I'm going to try to make it 24-35 today and if I have no issues I won't take it anymore. I want to note that this has not been easy to be patient because I'm soooo low in dose. I tried to stop at about .75 -1mg a day back in September but I had leg cramps and some sleep issues so I got on it again. I never realized how stron sub is and how even 1 mg is alot when it comes to tapering. I also tried to do the taper the way I'm doing it now back in June of last year and I had more side effects from being on such a low dose which proves this process is really related to your body and how you respond to the taper.i expected this most recent drop to be a bigger deal but it looks like my body was okay with it this time. There were times when I went through a month period and work was stressful and I went up to 4 strips per month . I pretty much did what my body asked me to do and there were times that I thought I need to just cut the crap and have the withdrawals and get through it. The thing is there is no reason to put yourself through feeling like crap and putting yourself at risk of relapse f you can take the time to do a proper taper for your body and mind. I have a thread in the tapering section and I know alot of others have had positive tapering stories. My best advice would be take your time and listen to your body. I have been very surprised on my recent drop in dose that Iworhin the last week I've only had a lack of hunger... And I'm not complaining about that Ohhhhh and less constipation! Lol.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #4
Amy412
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Hi Nancy,
Thank you so much for the links and helpful info. I really appreciate it. I havent read them yet as I have a dentist appt to get to (ugh) but will when I get home.

Yes the miscarriages are so hard. This was my 3rd one. Unfortunately I also suffer with infertility from stage 4 endo and it took 4yrs, many treatments and ultimately surgery to have my son. This surprise pregnancy has motivated me to taper off. I made a promise to my son the day he was born that I would be off these soon because he ended up going thru 4wks of NAS and needing to have morphine and was slowly weaned from that. It killed me! My Drs all said that he would be fine and not have w/ds. I should have known better. Thankfully there are no long term effects and is a happy, thriving toddler, but the guilt is with me and I worry that he will become an addict from my actions. I guess this is all a whole other story and different post though.

I did just find the thread of Mary and the other ppl that have tapered successfully that you posted. Thank you for that! I stayed up way past my bedtime reading about her and ros.

I know that I will enjoy this board and have a feeling that it will help me thru this taper!

I am searching for a good addiction specialist now for therapy. I do have a reg therapist as I also have PTSD, depression and aniexty, but she isnt much help with my addiction so hoping to find someone soon.

I have tried the whole dose at once and I still start to feel antsy and almost feening for my dose around 6pm (I know it is mental). Maybe I will just have to stay at 2x a day with my dose split in half for a while, but I am hoping to strengthen my mind and get to once a day.

Again thank you! Have a great day!
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Unread 07-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #5
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Hi Bizzyby45 and congrats on your taper!
I absolutely love hearing stories like yours. It gives me so much hope.
How are you feeling, I know its been a few days?

Today I am going to try 8mg and see if I can stick to it the next 10-14days and drop another 2mg. My husband is off work til Mon. So I figure its a good time to try and take another decrease just incase I feel a little off, but I think I'll be just fine. Anxiety seems to be one of my big problems. My stomach gets turned into a bunch of knots, but no amount of subs takes it away, so I'm hoping to find a way to not get into my head so much. Mental has always been my downfall, but I am more determined than ever.
I dont think things will get to rough until I get to maybe 2mg a day, so I am sure I will slow down then and my decreases will become much smaller. In a way I wish I could taper fast and be done, but I know slow is the right way to go.
Thank you again and you are doing awesome!
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Unread 07-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #6
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my biggest issue is anxiety too, everymorning i feel a little anxious but it wears off when i get going. I didnt take my morning dose today and waited until just now to take it. Instead i went mountain biking and actually forgot about it for a while. I feel like its all mental at this point. I have taken 1 strip in the last 2 weeks so i know that i probably have no subs in my system. I have also felt a little lethargic but it is raining non stop here and i crashed my bike into a tree so i think that wiped me out too. Usualyl im fine when i get going but for instance right now its hard for me to get motivated to do anything..... glad you are doing good. try not to project how you think you will feel at 2 mg beause it wont be anywhere near as bad as you think.
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Unread 07-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #7
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Wow, I hope you are ok after your bike crash! I have to give ya a pat on the back for even going mountain biking. That is great. I am soooo lazy and have no motivation. I have a 1yr old, so he keeps me active, but if someone asked me to go for a ride I would prob decline. So it looks like I have one more change to make and that is getting more active. We just bought a new home and will be moving soon. I will finally be able to go on walks in our new neighborhood. So that will be my goal. Take a 30min walk every day. Who knows, maybe I'll work my way up to biking or tennis.
Its awesome that you actually forgot about your dose. I hope to be in the mindframe you are in when I am as low as you.
Congrats and keep it up!
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Unread 07-07-2013, 02:30 PM   #8
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Just an update on my taper. I do have a journal I am keeping in the thread part of the board, but thought it would also be helpful to keep this one updated for myself and as a support tool. If anyone has any advice for me or questions please feel free!
I am down to 8mgs a day. Today is day 3 and so far so good. I take 6mg in am and 2mg around 6-7pm. For some reason I start to feel a bit antzy and sweaty around 6-7pm and that 2mgs takes it away. I really wish I could get into the mental state of taking it once a day, like a vitamin. Take it and forget about the rest of the day, but for some reason I cant get my brain and body to do it just yet so I will stick with what works. As long as I am decreasing I feel that is most important.
I have realized that I have taken a big decrease quickly. I started my taper on June 10, 2013. I was at 16mg most days and 20mg some days. So I have dropped below half my dose (4yrs on 20mgs a day) in under 30 days, but I plan to take it slower now. For some reason I am really anxious to get to 2mg a day, but I know if I dont do this the right way the 1st time then I may not be successful and I need to be succesful. So I will stay at 8mgs for another 10-14 days and then try 6mgs a day.
I feel hopeful and I feel excited. Now to just stay in this frame of mind.

Oh just a weird side note. For some reason I feel really good at night. I dont think about the subs at all. I dont feel antzy, depressed or aniexty. During the day I think about how I am feeling and just cant fully let go. I am not sure why. Maybe its because after I put my son to bed for the night I know I am free of respondsibility and I can just relax??? I have always been a night person. I just find this odd and intriging. I wish I could pin point the reason that night time is so easy for me and why time flies in the late evening until I go to bed. If I could pin point the reason then maybe I could change the way I think during the day and I could feel this way all day. That would be great! I feel "normal" at night. I feel great at night. Its like once the sun goes down my mind and body switch into a different mode.
Anyone else have this odd reaction/side effect. Not sure what to even call it??

Have a great Sunday!
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Unread 07-07-2013, 11:16 PM   #9
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I have the same issue sometimes I think I don't need it and its just mental, actually everything now at this point is probably mental for me. Once I remember usually later at night that I haven't taken the sub for 24 hours then I start having these symptoms oh I feel anxious or restless. I noticed even when I take the small amount of sub It
Barely helps the anxiety. I know I need to just cut the cord but the minute I remember I haven't taken the subs it's game over .
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Unread 07-07-2013, 11:22 PM   #10
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Hi bizzby45
I have even expiermented and have waited to take my 1st dose at 4pm and then dont you know just 2 short hours later I still get these feelings- antzy, stomach in knots and sweaty. This even happened when I was at 20mgs a day, that is why I use to dose 3x a day.
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Unread 07-07-2013, 11:27 PM   #11
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Sorry, it hit enter or something on accident.
I wonder if there is some underlying issue. Its just so weird that it happens every single day. doesnt matter where I am or what I am doing. Even if I dont know what time it is I will know its close to 6pm cause I start having these feelings/symtoms. Then I look at a clock and sure enough its 6ish pm. Is that weird or what! Guess its just something I'll have to learn to live with. Its now 10:25pm and I feel great. I always feel so good in the late evening. The most "normal" at night. I wonder if this could have anything with my dose being to high? I guess we will see as I get lower on my taper. Just kinda boogles my mind.
Thanks!
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Unread 07-07-2013, 11:34 PM   #12
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For me I feel more relaxed during the day to be honest. Probably because my husband is at work and it is just me and the dogs. I have time to myself to do whatever I must do, especially reading for school. The one thing I never think about is my suboxone, not ever. I take in the a.m. and don't give it a second thought as far as needing more. The one thing I do think about is wanting to taper and get off of it for good. It makes me so tired and after three years of being on it, it's time. I am having a hard time getting past 2mg. I tried that every other day thing and so far not so good. It seems the only time I end up thinking about my subs is when trying to do a taper. In the evening although I am fine, days for me are more relaxing. Night times wind down about 8 or 9 during the week and then it relaxation again (usually!) I agree so much of being on subs is mental and the most important thing to remember is more is not always better. It kills me when I read about people being on 30mg, etc. Now that is totally MENTAL!! LOL!! PEACE....Always. Julie
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Unread 07-08-2013, 01:08 AM   #13
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Hi Julie,
It is great that you only take 2mg a day! So be proud of that girl. I have a feeling that under 2mg will be my hard part, but like I was told here, dont fill my mind that I will start feeling bad at 2mg cause my mind will be focusing on that and when the time comes it will be mental and I'll feel like crap! lol. After 7yrs of methadone and decreasing from 88mgs to 1mg I felt just fine. I hardly had any problems at all. So I am trying to get my mind into that state so hopefully the same will happen with the subs. Ya, I am pretty POed at the head Dr who did my induction. I did NOT need 24mgs a day. I was 3wks off methadone and did one bag of H, ODed cause my tolerance was so low. I was buying subs from a friend and took 8mgs max a day, but didnt tell the sub dr that cause I was worried they would deny me. I prob needed 4mgs a day, 8mgs at the MOST! O well though, trying not to dwell on the past and stay positive for the future. I def think alot of this will be mental. So you have tried 2mg every other day, what did you feel like on the off day? Is it possible to do 1mg a day and see how you feel? I think it would be hard to skip days. I dont plan on doing it until the very end. You are doing great though and you are an inspiration to me, so thank you!
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Unread 07-08-2013, 02:49 AM   #14
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Thanks Amy. The every other day thing went fine for the first couple of misses, then today I felt real off. Although even after I took the 2mg, I still felt off, so it may not have been the sub at all. I have been in a fog and very tired all day so something else might be going on. I am going to skip tomorrow and see how it goes. Try and try again I say! Going to 1mg a day from 2mg is a big jump when u are this low in dosage. I went from 20mg to 8mg in a month! And that was over three years ago. I tapered from 8mg to 2mg over the last couple months and that was fine as well. Now the hard part is here. I also agree I did not need to be inducted at 20mg!! My doctor doesn't know I am tapering either, so I get 75 8mg pills month, but take a quarter of a pill a day so I have tons of subs here! Ugh! Because I am a pain management patient, my doctor also prescribes them for pain, so he has no intentions of tapering me, but once I am tapered for good, I will tell him I just stopped them. I help two of my friends that became hooked on pain meds and they are doing wonderfully. Neither of them has insurance, so I will slowly help them taper as I won't be on these forever and don't want to see them go through hell. It is amazing, I don't hang with people who use any drugs, but when I got addicted to my prescribed pain meds, it was crazy how I ended up meeting others that are hooked as well. Nuts!! Keep us updated on your taper, and don't think too much about it, harder said than done sometime! Good luck! Julie
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Unread 07-08-2013, 07:37 AM   #15
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Hi Amy412, do you have the same routine most days? Reason I ask is there was someone here years ago, every day he would get the same feeling at 7:00 each evening - antsy, etc. and he'd start having cravings. What we figured out is that was the time of day that he took his former drug of choice. After realizing that, he switched up his routine and that feeling disappeared.

I think you may have hit on something when you said "Maybe its because after I put my son to bed for the night I know I am free of respondsibility and I can just relax?" Perhaps it really has nothing to do with Suboxone, but with your finding you can relax and you've almost connected taking the Suboxone at that time with the beginning of your relaxation time - almost like a reward of sorts?

You've done a great job getting down to 8mg. When it's time to reduce again, you could always try to stop the evening dose altogether or you could reduce your morning dose to 4mg. Some people find that split dosing when tapering works better for them. Nothing is set in stone when tapering - only that you don't go faster than your body can handle.

Keep up the great work!

Nancy
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Unread 07-08-2013, 02:39 PM   #16
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Hi Julie,
Yep, just keep trying! You got this!
Its really nice of you to be helping your friends. That is what my friend did for me while I was waiting for my 1st appt. It was a huge help cause God only knows what I would have done those 2wks waiting for my appt.
My hubby always says its like I have magnet in my body that just attracts other addicts. No matter we go, or what we do, I ALWAYS end up making a new "drug buddy" as hub calls them. lol. I swear, we have moved 3 times while I have been on subs and with in the 1st week of being in a new town I have met at least one other person who is a addict, most are in recovery thank goodness. I still keep my distance though cause you just never know. Its so crazy and funny when you said that cause it happens to me All The Time!
Hope you are having a great day!
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Unread 07-08-2013, 02:46 PM   #17
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Thanks Nancy! You are so encouraging and I am so thankful to have found you and everyone on these boards.
Yes, I have pretty much the same routine every day. All of that will be changing soon cause we just bought our 1st home and will be moving in Aug. I am excited and looking as this as a new start to my life. This new home will be the beginning of a new me going back to good, old me.
I think you are right. Maybe my evening dose may be like a reward of sorts. That makes sense. I would love to get once a day dosing and I do plan on trying it. I just think it will maybe take a couple months. Hey, I just got a great idea. The day we move into our new home will be the day that I start once a day dosing. Its a complete new change, so I cant associate it with anything and maybe it will work! The new home will hopefully be the start to take it and forget about it. Worth a try.
Thanks Nancy, have a great day!
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Unread 07-09-2013, 11:26 PM   #18
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Ok, a weird thing happened to me tonight when I was taking my 2nd dose. Today is day 4 on 8mgs a day (will go to 6mg in 10 days). The past 3 days I was doing 6mg and then 2mg. Well last night I didnt sleep well (hubby is out of town) and I woke up still sleepy and figured I would take a nap when my son took his nap, so this morning I took 4mgs in the am, took an hour nap and then took the other 4mg around 5pm. So about 35-45 mins after taking my 2nd 4mg my nose started to itch and I started getting a semi uphoric (sp?) feeling (like almost a high feeling). It took me complete and utter surprise. I also felt a surge of enegry! Thank God for changing may way of thinking cause if this was the past I would have tried to chase that feeling all night. I went on with my evening and am feeling "normal" again.
I just thought this was odd. Anything like this happen to anyone else while tapering?
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Unread 07-10-2013, 12:16 AM   #19
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Probably time to taper soon !!!!! Good for u not chasing that as that is not what u want.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 12:32 AM   #20
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Thanks Julie.
Ya, maybe I wont have to wait the whole 10 days, maybe just give it a few more days and try the 6mg a day. I'm excited now!
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Unread 07-10-2013, 12:45 AM   #21
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Most definitely!! It's time!!
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Unread 07-10-2013, 06:52 AM   #22
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Hi Amy, how long have you been at 8mg? It can take 2 or 3 days to notice a reduction, and if it's been more than a few days, then why not try it today? Since you've been doing the split dosing, you could try 2mg in the morning and 2mg later. Or just see if you can skip the afternoon dose altogether and take 4mg in the morning. If you do that and it's not working, see if you can take only 1mg instead of 2mg and go to 5mg instead of 6mg.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

Nancy
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Unread 07-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #23
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Hi Nancy,
Today will be day 5 at 8mgs. My original plan was to stick to each taper for at least 14 days and 21 days being the most for each taper (of course I will follow my body though, but this is my hopes). Since I am still at a high dose I think I will do the 8mgs today (5 days total) and the tom try 6mgs. I just dont want to take a 4mg decrease, the thought makes me nervous. I was basically at 20mgs for almost 4yrs. So I dont want to taper to quickly and shock my body. I also dont want to have a "high" feeling when I take my subs though cause I think that could be dangerous because hey, I am an addict, so tom I will try 6mgs. I think I will be fine starting 6mgs tom. and not have any problems. I honestly did not think I would be down from 20mgs to 8mgs in less than 30days, but it feels great and I am proud of myself. So tom will mark day 30 of my taper and will start my new taper to 6mgs.
I have decided that when we move I will do once a day dosing. Since my whole routine will be changing I think it will make it easier on me mentally if I wait until moving day (Aug. 24) to start once a day dosing. With the rate I am going, I may be down to 2mgs a day by then. Very exciting! I wish moving day could be my jump off day, but again, I dont want to rush this.
Thanks and have a great day!
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Unread 07-10-2013, 05:20 PM   #24
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Hi Amy412, one of the reasons you were able to taper so quickly is because you likely didn't need 20mg and what you didn't need was just wasted. Buprenorphine has a ceiling - so after a certain point (average is thought to be around 12mg) taking more doesn't do anything except maybe exacerbate any side effects. So you won't be shocking your body, as when you reached the ceiling with the medication, it didn't do anything anyways. I hope that made sense. lol

Going to 4mg might be too much of a drop, especially now that you're under the ceiling. So 6mg sounds like a better dose to try.

And if by August 24 you're down to 2mg, that would be fabulous! But just listen to your body and don't force a dose if you start to feel cravings or withdrawals.

Nancy
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Unread 07-10-2013, 11:37 PM   #25
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Hi amy...just stopping by and sinking in all the info and knowledge i can get...im still early in my journey to recovery but one day i will too have to start tappering..i just wanted to say im very sorry about your miscarriage...I know that's a very hard thing to go through...hope you make the right choice and things go smoothly for you!
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Unread 07-11-2013, 01:06 AM   #26
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Thanks Nancy.
I have read about the "ceiling" thing. I think I understand it, but I honestly didnt reserach it to much, so I will do that just to get a better understanding.
Today I did 4mg and 4mg. I did not get the same feeling as yesterday. I have actually felt really crappy all evening, but not from my taper. I have had some crazy heartburn or something, but not sure its even heartburn as I took two zantac and it didnt do anything. I took 2 advil and it did help. So I have no idea what this pain is. Maybe I pulled a muscle or something.
For some reason I am feeling anxious about doing 6mgs tom. I feel like I havent been on 8mgs for long enough, like I should at least do 10 days on 8mgs. I think its just mental as I have wrote down my taper plans and 10 days is shortest I wrote for each decrease. I think I am still going to try the 6mgs tom, but not 100% sure yet. I know I should follow my body, but how important is it to follow what my mind is telling me?

Let me know what you think. Thank you so much! I really appreciate your support!
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Unread 07-11-2013, 01:12 AM   #27
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Hi orgasmicfeeling,
Thank you so much! Yes, it is definately hard to have recurrent pregnancy loss, but I have learned some good coping skills and am thankfully doing well.
I am new to this site myself and I am just so thankful I found it. I asked God to help me with finding support and He sure did. I feel so inspired everytime I get on the site. Just post here and take it all in like you are doing. I think it will be a great support for you and really help with your recovery.
Congrats for getting into recovery and I also wish a very smooth journey.
Again, Thank you!
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Unread 07-11-2013, 07:58 AM   #28
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Hi Amy412, here's a definition of the ceiling effect:

http://www.naabt.org/glossary.cfm#C
Because of the limited intrinsic activity of buprenorphine at the receptor and the finite amount of receptors, there is a limit as to the opioid effect one receives. The increasing effects of partial agonists reach maximum levels and do not increase further, even if doses continue to rise. With most patients this occurs at about 12-16mg of sublingual buprenorphine. As the dosage is increased beyond the ceiling no difference in euphoria, analgesia, or respiratory depression will be felt.

If you don't feel comfortable trying 6mg, then don't. But, just remember that your taper isn't written in stone, so if your body is telling you one thing, but a piece of paper the other, in my opinion, go by what your body is telling you. That also goes for if you reduce and you don't feel well with that reduction - you don't want to stick to it because you had written it down. The best tapers are 'fluid' - they're adjusted as you go on - you stop if you're uncomfortable, you move forward a little faster if you start getting signals of too high of a dose. Like today, if you try 6mg because you had the signals that it was too high of a dose, give it a try. You can always go back to 8mg the next day or even take the other 2mg later in the day - although with the halflife, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. But if going to 6mg is going to cause anxiety, then just wait.

Let us know what you decide!

Nancy
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Unread 07-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #29
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Just feeling the need to write out some of my feelings, so thought I would give an update.
Today is day 9 at 8mgs a day (4mg am & 4mg pm). I havent had any trouble or w/d with the decrease. I know I am still at a high dose, but it still feels encouraging.
I have been having a rough few days with depression. I hate when I feel this way. It comes and goes in waves. I always deal with some depression on a daily basis, but I have waves of major depression here and there and it can last a couple days to a few weeks. Right now I take Welbutrin (200mg), but I dont think it has helped at all. I'm suppose to take effexor, but I dont due to side effects and being afraid of being dependent on another drug. I have of course googled most of the anti depressents and saw mostly horror stories about w/d. So it scared me. My psychiatrist said I could try cymbalta, but so far I have declined. She thinks I am taking the effexor though. I am considering giving it a try. My quality of life just isnt good. I have no idea if cymbalta will help and I guess I am scared that it wont and then I'll have w/d coming off. I've read about feeling like your brain is being zapped and that really scared me. I was hoping to try to just deal with my depression, but when these major waves happen I start to think that I may really need the anti depressent. I stay on the welbutrin cause I am afraid to come off of it. Another thing that worries me is the decrease in sex drive. I already have close to a non exsistance sex drive and just kinda fake it for the sake of my hubby. Scared I wont even be able to fake it if I start another anti depressent. I just dont know which is the right choice.
I should add that I do not exercise. I have lost almost 30lbs since Jan with just dieting and counting calories. I dont have the motivation to exercise at home and there arent any gyms that are close to our home. We move Aug. 24th and there is a gym close and it seems like we can prob afford a membership for me. I think if I know I am paying for something that it will help with motivatation. So I will be joining the gym when we move, but that is still over a month away. Maybe I will hold off on trying the cymbalta until after I start getting to a gym regularly. That may be all I need to help with these bad bouts of depression and may even help with my daily depression.
I plan on starting 6mgs a day on Mon. Hoping this "episode" is over by then as it will make the decrease easier. I still plan on doing the taper even if I am still having this episode as I want no excuses. Now if my body doesnt handle it well then I would consider doing 8mg one day and 6mg the next for a week or so, but I dont think it will be necessary.

Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better getting all that out and as always appreciate any feedback, opinions or thoughts about what I wrote.

Thanks! Amy
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #30
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Honestly, it seemed like when my husband got his job and we were finally able to afford my medication and the doctor bills that took alot of worry off my mind. I will try to not jack someone's thread if I can help it. With that said, I do want to add that I am not trying to push anyone to stay on Suboxone forever HOWEVER I just cant see how a week will solve years of pill taking. If it does, that is wonderful and I praise you for doing so. Its just that rehab's are more than a week, or so I have heard. It didnt take a week to get hooked, it does take some time to rework your brain after becoming addicted to things like pills/heroin.
Now, once I seen that it was going to be easy as pie to get to my doctor every month which has now went to once every other month things lightened up for me quite a bit. I sat and worried myself stupid about the bills, how I was going to get medicine and things like that. I dont have that worry anymore, thankfully. And most people around here know me to be a worry wart, and that we were in some dire financial straits at one point in time. To me, planting flowers was something that didnt really take alot of motivation. I went to the dollar store and got it all real cheap, figuring that nothing would honestly grow because I have no luck in that area. I went out a few days later and had little buds coming out danced all over the porch, I was so happy. I also change my hair color as well, I have been pink/purple/blue/red back natural blonde and back pink again. To me, it is very therapeutic. It is a change and helps me to wash away some of the troubles ( as silly as that might sound).
With natural tapering, I wish that I could give advice on that one. Somehow, I just started to forget my daily dose. My only problem now is that monthly visitor that rolls around and reminds me. Suboxone for me is also a mild pain reliever when the cramps come a calling. For me, the past couple of months have been horrible. Sometimes, I would get a month break and it wouldnt be so bad but lately every month is horrible and I do have to take it for a analgesic effect. Midol does nothing for me, Ibuprofen does nothing for me, Tylenol does nothing for me either. I mean PMS cramps, not just regular aches and pains. After I started getting my husband to realize that this was going to be a lengthy process, because he figured that once I went back on it after I had a fall in November last year, he figured that it would be quick and that I could taper back down quickly. I told him, well look at it like this it hasnt been a year since that and I am tapering but it is a slow process. I didnt get hooked over night and I wont get off of it overnight.
My body I guess just stopped needing it as much and that is what helped me to taper off naturally.
My social anxiety troubles, I have never been able to wrap my mind around how to fix that one. When I was younger and we would have Christmas gatherings, it didnt seem to bother me as bad. I would always take off to my room eventually. I was just able to stay in the living room with others for a lot longer than I can now. I think its just over time with ex husbands, his family that drove me crazy. They were up my nose at the drop of a hat. I was pregnant and supposed to be on bed rest but my ex husbands sister said that if I went on bed rest, it could kill the baby. My ex husband being the moron that he is believed her and I wound up horribly sick most of that pregnancy. It got worse with my new husbands family, because they were always wondering why I would sit by myself and beg me to join them, but I just wanted to be left alone. I basically put myself in a cubby hole and wanted to be left there. Now, my mother will tell people not to push me to be around alot of people. She also knows that you dont scare me or jump out on me, because it will or can send me into a panic attack. It hasnt happened in years, but we dont wanna stir that pot if we dont have to do so. I went through a period where I had terrible panic attacks, to the point that I couldnt even remember having them. I would remember going into it, and then I would come out and be so tired that I couldnt move and I would doze off. I would wake up a little later and be ok, it was just something that I didnt know how to deal with at the time. Now for me to learn how to basically push all that away, it was hard at first. It took coming out with my addiction, admitting my problems and basically getting in the frame of mind that I dont give a shit what people think anymore. Once you get your mind set to a certain thing, you can do anything that you want. It takes willpower and some heavy pushing sometimes, but for me a few songs helped too.
I can give you a small list of songs that helped me get through alot:
Avril Lavigne-Freak Out
Lady Gaga-Hair (helped me alot, i was bullied in school)
KoRn-Thoughtless
Those are just a few that helped me get alot of that inner rage out and deal with years of pent up anger. I read the lyrics to a song and really read them, let it get in your brain. Music for me is a wonderful thing, it helped me through a period with no Suboxone and horrible withdrawals. It was all that I had, Mom was giving me one Lortab a day to try and keep from just being terrible sick but I knew that I couldnt stay on that so I went back to Suboxone. I knew that one would eventually turn into two/three/etc....
I am quite proud of myself now, even though my ways might sound a little kooky they have helped me immensely. One of my favorite lyrics of all time,
I've had enough, this is my prayer, I will die living just as free as my hair.....
Once I came to terms with the fact that I was NOT going to let this addiction and the anxiety get me down, I got my mind in the right frame to do anything. I still have some troubles being around alot of people, but the panic attacks have went bye bye.

I hope that I might have helped some, it is my only intention to try and help others. If anything that I have said helps, that is great. Seriously, get you a means of blasting some music however that might be car/home/headphones and just let go. It is a wonderful outlet.
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Unread 07-15-2013, 02:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi Amy412, here's a definition of the ceiling effect:

http://www.naabt.org/glossary.cfm#C
Because of the limited intrinsic activity of buprenorphine at the receptor and the finite amount of receptors, there is a limit as to the opioid effect one receives. The increasing effects of partial agonists reach maximum levels and do not increase further, even if doses continue to rise. With most patients this occurs at about 12-16mg of sublingual buprenorphine. As the dosage is increased beyond the ceiling no difference in euphoria, analgesia, or respiratory depression will be felt.

If you don't feel comfortable trying 6mg, then don't. But, just remember that your taper isn't written in stone, so if your body is telling you one thing, but a piece of paper the other, in my opinion, go by what your body is telling you. That also goes for if you reduce and you don't feel well with that reduction - you don't want to stick to it because you had written it down. The best tapers are 'fluid' - they're adjusted as you go on - you stop if you're uncomfortable, you move forward a little faster if you start getting signals of too high of a dose. Like today, if you try 6mg because you had the signals that it was too high of a dose, give it a try. You can always go back to 8mg the next day or even take the other 2mg later in the day - although with the halflife, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. But if going to 6mg is going to cause anxiety, then just wait.

Let us know what you decide!

Nancy
Right on Nancy!! I thought for sure I could do the every other day thing at 2mg, but my body tells me otherwise right now. Writing down a taper is fine, but it isn't in stone as Nancy said. I commend you for your determination, but take care of you, the paper is just that, a piece of paper. Feel better Amy!! Hugs!! Julie
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Unread 07-15-2013, 08:24 PM   #32
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Hi asouth,
Thank you for finding my thread and helping me. I just didnt want to ask you a bunch of ?'s on someone elses post and feel like I was "hijacking" it.
I agree, one week is not enough for sub treatment. My cousin was just detoxed for a week on subs for H while in rehab and as soon as he got out he started using again. Every one is different. I just wish I would have started my taper after the 1st year instead of going on year 4, but cant change it and just have to my best now.
I know what you mean about the cramps every month. I have stage 4 endometeosis and the pain is so bad with the subs. I am scared to see what it feels like w/out them, but I'm sure I will work thru it somehow.
I so wish I could throw myself into music. I use to LOVE music. Ever since starting subs is it like it has dulled everything. Music doesnt sound the same or touch me in the ways it use to. It really sucks. I am hoping as I get lower and lower on my dose that I will start to relate to music again. I really miss it. I still like music, but its not the same.
I will def try to find a hobby that intrests me. I think I will def try gardening. I do think I would enjoy it. I use to just get those hanging flower baskets and would be so proud when they stayed alive and budded the most beautiful flowers. It gave me a sense of worth. I think I may like knitting also. Its something I think I will try this winter. I am a stay at home mom and while my toddler does keep me busy it is still easy to get lost in my thoughts and anxieties. It is def differnt from working away from home and getting out of the house everyday. Unfortuantely right now my diagnoses and disorders prevent me from being able to wrok at this time, but I am working with a counselor and hope to get rid of these irrational fears and at times crippling depression soon.
I can really relate to alot of what you said. When we go to my inlaws I am always the one who wants to not go out to dinner or the movies. I just want to be alone with the comp or tv. This is something I really have to work on.

You def have helped. Thank you! I will be giving music a try again and exploring new songs and artists. I also will get back into reading as I miss that alot too.
Again, Thanks!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 08:30 PM   #33
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Hi Julie,
Thank you so much! I really feel inspired and supported when I hear from you along with Nancy. You guys are awesome.
I went down to 6mgs today! Feeling good at the moment, and I know it could be a few days before I would notice anything but I think I'll be just fine.
I promise to follow my body and not my paper.
I am feeling better. We spent the day at my moms with my family. Went swimming and had a family dinner. I really needed that support and love and it took my depression episode away for the most part.
Proud of you for being on 2mg. Just take your time. No biggy that you cant skip days. 2mg is still potent and skipping days just sounds scary to me at this point. I will prob try the 2-1-2-1-2-1 type thing when I get to that point. I may end up on 2mgs for a couple months. As we know, its impossible to say as long as we are following our bodies. I am sure your body will let you know when its ready for a change in dose.
Keep doing you, your doing great!
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Unread 07-15-2013, 09:39 PM   #34
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Thanks Amy. I am glad you are on this forum. I can totally relate to you. Music is not the same, I don't really want to go and do things, like movies, etc., and when I do it is such a chore. Just getting through school is about doing me in, but THAT is the one thing I will not let subs take from me. I am a great student and if I have to push my self beyond exhaustion then so be it. I mean I am very grateful to this medication for getting me off the opiates, but I am so mad at myself for not getting of after a year or even less. It is well over three years now and I am sick and tired of feeling like a dead person. I will listen to my body and eventually try 2-1-2-1-2, etc....Good luck and you are doing awesome as well!! Keep it up!! Julie
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Unread 07-16-2013, 10:59 AM   #35
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Hi Amy, that's a good thing you didn't notice anything yet with reducing to 6mg. Just remember that you were likely on way too high of a dose, so don't even think about how quickly you got to where you were. That's just your body pretty much letting you know that you were on too high of a dose. That could also be why you felt so disconnected from things - too high of a dose can do that. When you start feeling withdrawals from a reduction is when you'll know that you're a little too low and to go back up 1 or 2mg.

Think about starting to look into some hobbies now that you can continue when you move. Gardening, I think, is very therapeutic. Plus it can be good exercise. I know you're running after your little one, but see if you can set aside some exercise time too. Yoga might be something to look into. It can be great for both physical and mental wellbeing and you can get some DVDs and do it at home and maybe if you like it, look into a class when you move.

But most of all, pat yourself on your back! You're doing great and we're really proud of the progress you've made!

Nancy
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Unread 07-16-2013, 02:39 PM   #36
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Thank you so much Nancy!

I cant even begin to explain how grateful I am that I have found you guys! I know you will be a huge part of my recovery and living completely opiate free.
Its amazing that I can take 2mgs in the morning and feel perfectly fine until around 3pm. Thats when I take the other 4mgs. Trying to condition my brain to not needing a evening dose. So I take it by 4p now. I still want once a dosing and think I will get there soon. If I would've tried 2mgs in the am just 2 short months ago my mind would have made me thought I was in w/d. Its amazing how quickly I have been able to change my way of thinking just from being here a month. Everyone is so positive and inspiring and it has changed my whole way of thinking.

So thank you, thank you all of you!
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Unread 07-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #37
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I had a weird and disturbing dream last night. It reminded me of when I was in active addiction. Ok, so today is day 3 at 6mgs and so far everything is all good. Anyways, I cant remember all the specifics, but I actually dreamed about subs last night. Now I have had many dreams in the past about oxy, coke and H and have had them during my recovery. I would almost wake up feeling high after those dreams. This time was different. It was like I almost had a craving for sub when I woke up. I woke up in the middle of the night and fell right back to sleep, but this dream was odd.
What do u think it means? I think I was trying to find subs in my dream, but dont remember the specifics.
Maybe because I am tapering and its in the back of my mind at all times??? or Does this mean that I may be more than physically dependent on this med???
I know it could mean absolutely nothing, but with past dreams of drugs it was always from the addiction standpoint and about getting high.
It just kind of struck a nerve with me.
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Unread 07-18-2013, 03:14 AM   #38
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Hehe, I was low on cigarettes one night. I knew that I had to get up early in the morning and make a run to the cigarette store. This was before I rolled my own, which if anyone smokes saves a crap ton of money and they are basically the same as commericial made ones. Anyways, I got up that next morning laughing my ass off. I dreamed of dancing cigarettes. It looked like there was people dressed up like cigarettes and they were dancing. It was because I went to bed thinking I have to get up early in the morning and go to the store. I think alot of times dreams are basically whatever we go to bed with what is on our minds.
I will definitely agree with you, where you are tapering it is lingering in the back of your mind. The best thing that you can do is let the taper come natural. I did that, and somehow I dropped down 2mg's and sometimes 3mg's on good days. I average 5-6mg everyday, sometimes I dont cut them accurately. That is my fault, but it is a process like learning to roll your own smokes.
I basically said the taper will come naturally for me. I know that it will, i just have to give it time. I know that in some cases people are on it so long that they have to make themselvs taper. I wish I could explain it better. Somehow, I just started taking less and less. I know that in a couple of months I will be under 4mg's. It will come naturally. My goal is to get down to taking 2mg pills/films instead of cutting up 8mg's.
I try to not dwell on it, I think that is what gets alot of people down. They sit and constantly dwell on the fact that they are taking it yet again. I look at it this way. I am not taking whatever my DOC is, I am taking something that is changing me into a better person. Think of it as no more than a blood pressure pill, dont dwell on the fact of what it actually is. It is just like any other medication for a disease, something to make you better over time. I would not rag on my husband for taking his BP meds, I actually rag on him if he misses a day of taking them. It is not that I am trying to be mean, I want him around for a LONG time.
That is something that aggravate me about most marriages that we are close with, like my mom or my aunt, the lady that lives out the road. I dont understand how someone can live with another person that they can't stand every day. I know that I did it for seven years, but once I got away from it now I cant understand how I did it even. I think that i might just have gotten used to that person being around and their stupid ways. I wish that I could get my mother away from my stepdad, or I like to call him the bastard that she is living with. He makes my ass sick. Pardon my language. I just can't stand to be in the same room with him. I have my reasons. She would be so much happier, I know she would. It would take some time, but I know she would be better off. I guess that is how she thought when I was with my ex husband. She begged me to get away from him. Oh well, just something that bugs me from time to time. Something to talk about another day, it is crazy late and I just can NOT stop watching Dexter. Dang show is addictive.
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Unread 07-18-2013, 07:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy412 View Post
I had a weird and disturbing dream last night. It reminded me of when I was in active addiction. Ok, so today is day 3 at 6mgs and so far everything is all good. Anyways, I cant remember all the specifics, but I actually dreamed about subs last night. Now I have had many dreams in the past about oxy, coke and H and have had them during my recovery. I would almost wake up feeling high after those dreams. This time was different. It was like I almost had a craving for sub when I woke up. I woke up in the middle of the night and fell right back to sleep, but this dream was odd.
What do u think it means? I think I was trying to find subs in my dream, but dont remember the specifics.
Maybe because I am tapering and its in the back of my mind at all times??? or Does this mean that I may be more than physically dependent on this med???
I know it could mean absolutely nothing, but with past dreams of drugs it was always from the addiction standpoint and about getting high.
It just kind of struck a nerve with me.
Hi Amy, I would imagine at this point you're all set at 6mg. Most people notice something by the third day of a reduction and you're good, so that's good.

As for your dream, maybe you're still overthinking the whole process. I know you said that you tend to overthink things, so don't take too much stock in the dream. The medication has been on your mind a lot. The tapering, the trying to get to once-a-day dosing. Now that you're at 6mg, see if you can just relax a bit now. Don't worry about the twice-a-day dosing. If it happens, it happens; if not, you're tapering, so it might actually work to your advantage during tapering. You can at one point eliminate the second dose, or reduce it or spread out the time in between doses and reduce that way.

But for now, you've done a heck of a job with your taper, so relax and your body will start giving you signals when it's time to try another reduction.

I'm really proud of you!

Nancy
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Unread 07-18-2013, 05:29 PM   #40
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Hi asouth,
I LOVE Dexter. I have been hooked since the very 1st episode. So sad that this is the final season. I will def miss it. I have been wanting to start watching breaking bad and thought ondemand would have it, but they dont. I'll have to see if my netfilx has it. I have heard its also an addictive show. I am a TV addict. LOL

Haha, your cig dream is hilarious! Ya, I think I have just been over thinking this whole taper thing. I am letting it come naturally but I also want to be done asap, yet I dont wanna push my body. As you can see, very confusing things going on in this brain. Gonna try to just relax and just go with the flow. The reason I want off asap it to try to get pregnant. I suffer from infertiltiy and it took 3yrs, a ton of $$$, treatments and finally surgery to concieve my son. I have no idea what it will take for #2 or if we will even be blessed with a 2nd child, but I have to try and in order to try I need off the sub. I cant put another baby thru what my 15 month old son went thru the first 4wks of his life. I am 31yrs old. I know that its on the younger side, but fertiltiy decreases alot after 30. :/

I am also a smoker and I want to quit. I know that I prob wont quit anytime soon, but am thinking of trying one of those e-cigs. I have one, but it is very old (from when they first came out) and dont like it much. My hubby bought it for me. The set was $100 and I feel bad that I dont like it and dont use it. Hoping a dif brand may work since the technology has prob improved in the last 4yrs.
I feel so guilty for spending close to $6 a day on smoking. I may have to give rolling my own a try. I smoke malboro menthol lights. Any recommendations that would be close to those? I am picky. Ha, picky with cigs. UGH

Glad that you are happy with your Hubby. I agree, its very important to like your partner. I have days that it feels like me and hub are roomates, but I do like him and most of all love him more than anything. Marriages will have its ups and downs, but mine has more ups than downs. I cant totally relate cause my mom use to pick the worst men ever! Abusive, mean and didnt give a s*** about us (kids at the time). She is now married to a man that treats her well. Me and him dont get along great and fight alot, but as long as he is good to her and treats her good that is all that matters. I try to be nice to keep her happy cause my mom deserves to be treated like a queen. She is an amazing person. So I am happy that she finally found a somewhat decent partner.
I hope your mom gets to be happy one day soon!
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Unread 07-18-2013, 07:25 PM   #41
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Thank you so much Nancy!
As always, the intellegent voice of reason.
I think u are right. I am way overthinking this. I need to just go with the flow. I am going to stop with the pressure on myself. I know I will be off these eventually. Its harder on my mind when I think about a super slow taper, as I mentioned before, one of the main reasons I want off is to try to get pregnant. I feel a loss each month when I realize that "maybe this could have been the month that I got pregnant, but cant cause of my med". Its a bad cycle and I need to stop it, and have complete faith in God and know that He is helping to guide me in the right direction.
Thank you again Nancy! You help make this 100x easier then it would be on my own.
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Unread 07-18-2013, 08:51 PM   #42
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Hi Amy, yes! Definitely stop pressuring yourself. Each month, maybe instead of feeling a loss, switch it up and see how much healthier you are getting for when you do get pregnant.

Also give yourself a whole lot of credit. You're doing everything, we're just here supporting you and cheering you on, which is our pleasure!

Nancy
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Unread 07-23-2013, 11:52 PM   #43
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Just need to vent....
I started having another one of my major depression episodes today. It was so weird as I was fine all day and it hit me while I was taking a shower. The episodes seem to be getting stronger and more frequent since I started tapering. Maybe the higher doses where helping to keep some depression at bay, I dunno. So I have decided to call my pshyciatrist tom and try to get an appt asap. I am going to give the anti depressents a try. I feel defeated with starting AD, but right now my quality of life needs to be better for myself and my family. Its pretty bad when you have to force yourself to take a shower every 3 days cause you just dont care and making your hubby go to the grocery store cause you dont want to leave the house. I have the most amazing 15 month old son and I want his life to be full of positive expierneces and great memories. That will be pretty hard to do if I dont get help.
I am scared of being dependent on another med. I am afraid of the w/d when coming off the AD and also the possible side effects. I am already depended on 3 meds right now. The thyriod med will be for life. I dont know about the klonopin, maybe once I am stable on the right AD my aniexty may start to improve. Hoping to be off the sub by early next year. Who knows it could happen in 3 months, it could take 6 months or more with the sub taper. I just know I am not rushing my taper because I want to do it right the first time.
I am dx with major depressive disoder, anxiety and PTSD. Anyone have similar dx? If so, have you found an anti depressent that has helped with your depression? I am on welbutrin, but it isnt helping. I am suppose to take effexor but the side effects were horrible and I couldnt do it. Dr has mentioned cymbalta. Maybe I will give it a try. I just feel desperate right now with my depression and need relief. I dont think I'll be able to taper properly if I dont fix my depression. Ugh, just alot going on in my mind.

My taper is going well. I did 4mgs yesterday, 6mgs today. Will do 4mgs tom, then 6mgs and then stay on 4mgs a day until I am ready for another drop. I am really proud of myself so far and need to stay as positive as possible.

Thanks!
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Unread 07-24-2013, 08:21 AM   #44
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Hi Amy, please try not to be 'scared about being dependent on another med' and certainly do not feel defeated! You're diagnosed with three things that can be extremely debilitating, as you know. If you can take a medication once a day to help balance that and help you get the best quality of life possible, that's what they are for. You're not taking the medication because you're trying to get high and you're not addicted to them - you're taking them to improve your quality of life - to help with chemical imbalances in your brain. Maybe if you look at it more medically rather than with the need to not be 'dependent' will that will help?

Your depression may have been somewhat masked by the high dose of bupe that you were taking, and as you taper, it's being unmasked. So that might be why it's getting worse as you reduce your dose. As for Cymbalta, there have been people here before who found it worked very well for both depression and anxiety. So that might be a good one to try.

I'm glad you're going to call your doctor today. Please keep us posted. Oh, and be damn proud of yourself for the fabulous tapering job!

Nancy
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Unread 07-24-2013, 12:38 PM   #45
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Hi Amy412! Ditto to what NancyB said! The quality of life is what is most important, not the medications doctor's have prescribed to help. Be thankful that there are medications that can assist us when we need them. Before thyroid medications people just died when their thyroid did not work!

I know how tricky it is to find the correct medication for depression, and that can be discouraging in itself. But, you must keep trying because there will be one that will help the imbalance you have. I am glad you are contacting your psychiatrist and will discuss all of this with him! The key to success is to keep looking for solutions as they are out there. That is what you are doing, and good for you!

Another member on here takes Buspar(Deanna) and she says it has helped her anxiety. I copied a bit about Buspar:
BuSpar Oral Uses

This medication is used to treat anxiety. It may help you think more clearly, relax, worry less, and take part in everyday life. It may also help you to feel less jittery and irritable, and may control symptoms such as trouble sleeping, sweating, and pounding heartbeat. Buspirone is a medication for anxiety (anxiolytic) that works by affecting certain natural substances in the brain (neurotransmitters).

NancyB mentioned the higher doses of suboxone could have masked your depression so that is something to think about. Usually tapers help with depression, not the other way around. That is because to treat depression with suboxone the prescribed dose is very low. Clinical studies are ongoing with using suboxone to treat depression so it is still in the study phase, yet it is reported to help at low doses. So I am saying the lowering of your suboxone is not causing the depression, just in my opinion.

I am glad you are stabilizing at 4mg-that should take some anxiety out of the mix, just take the 4mg and forget about the suboxone taper for awhile until you get some other issues handled. ok?

nan
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Unread 07-24-2013, 12:50 PM   #46
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Hi Nancy,
Thank you so much. You are so supportive, educated and have good common sense. I really appreciate you.
So of course after I wrote all that out last night I started to feel better. I feel good today. Its hard to pinpoint exactly what is going on with me. I keep going back in forth in my mind- "just wait until the move cause I will be surrounded by family. I will be able to take nice, long walks in my new neighborhood. My friends and family will give me that extra boost that I need." and then when I am having an episode its- "I need to get on an anti depressent. I should have more of a zest for life. Something just isnt right." I decided to just wait for my normal appt which is less than a month away. By that time we will be in our new home, in our new neighborhood. Maybe all I need is to join a gym and get active.

I have been doing research on anti depressents and from what I have found it seems like they are hit or miss with more miss then hit. If that makes sense. I was reading web md and it says that in a AD and placebo study ppl with moderate depression where not helped by the AD and of course when you google something you find all the bad stories cause no one ever posts about positive expireneces.

I am thinking of trying some guided mediation. I just need to find a good cd set or whatever to buy. There are so many out there and its hard to know which ones are good. Plus they arent cheap. I would love to get this controled with a holistic approach. I just dont know who to get advice from. I guess I can try my current therapist even though I dont feel any kind of positive connection with here.

Still searching for therapist who specializes in addiction. I think I will make some calls today and see if I can find someone.

Writing is definately theraputic (sp?). I feel better after journaling in my notebook and writing on here. So I will keep doing that in the meantime.

I was reading thru the taper stories and found a post from twinmom. It was about how she finally was able to start loving herself. It had me in tears as I realized that I dont fully love myself and that could be causing alot of my issues. I just am unsure how to start loving me.
Still got lots of work to do for me.

Again, thank you Nancy. Hope you know how awesome and appreciated you are!
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Unread 07-24-2013, 02:18 PM   #47
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Hi nan,
Thank you for your help.
I actually thought buspar was welbutrin, but I just looked it up and it is not the same as welbutrin. So I will ask my physciatrist what she thinks of buspar for me. I like my physicatrist but sometimes I feel she doesnt really know much about the rx's that she gives me. I am not good with a whole lot of change at one time and with the big move coming and having to find a new pcp and therapist and pedi for my son I think I will stick with her for a while, but may need to find a new physciatrist eventaully.

I am very thankful for modern medicine. Sub has done wonders for me, as has klonopin with my extreme anxiety and if I didnt have synthriod then who knows what I would be like. Hypothriodism is no joke. Its amazing how the little thyriod has so much effect on the whole body. So yes, I will do my best to change my way of thinking. For some reasons AD's have always scared me. I have no idea why they are so scary to me, but they are.

I know I should maybe hault my taper but I dont want to. I think I will continue the taper and find the lowest possible dose that keeps me comfortable. Once there I will stay there if needed for a bit until all of this depression is under control. So for now I will not be thinking about jumping off I will just be trying to get to the lowest dose that will keep me stabilized. Maybe it will be 4mgs, maybe 2mgs, maybe 1mg. I will just go with the flow for now and have my depression be my main focus for now.

Thank you nan!
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Unread 07-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #48
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Hi amy hope things start looking up for you. I agree that quality of life is the most important thing. You only live one life so make it a life worth living. Medications are there to help us even tho sometimes they may cause other dependancies. I just recently started suboxone and am in awe of how well it has done for me. I hope everything looks up for you. You are not alone in this fight and have many people that are concerned and that are hoping and wishing the best for you. I hope this gives you some type of encouragement for the day!!! Bye
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:32 AM   #49
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Hi Amy, I'm glad to know you're feeling better - writing sure can be a cathartic experience. That's great that you're journaling and posting here.

I think the move will help too. New home, you'll be around family. Joining a gym or maybe even look into adult education classes in your new town. Where I live, they have adult ed classes from painting to languages to exercise. There might be something that piques your interest and will be nice to meet people in your new town too. But working in some exercise sure will help I think anyways.

As for the Buspar, as nan mentioned, deanna takes it now and it really has helped her tremendously. She was hesitant to try any anti-depressant meds, but I'm glad she did. Maybe it will work as well for you too, if you and your doctor decide to give it a go. I also think you hit the nail on the head with your research on anti-depressants - you mostly read negative stories because not that many people search out forums when they're having a good experience. Kind of like with tapering. We read so many negative stories. That's why I'm thankful we have so many people here with positive stories.

Twinmom's thread is really inspiring. She's a sweetie. I found this and thought you might like to read it.
"21 Tips to Release Self-Neglect and Love Yourself in Action"
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/21-tips-t...elf-in-action/

I also found this. "Free Guided Meditations"
http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22

Maybe that's a start with the guided meditation without having to spend any money.

With your taper, maybe just don't pay attention to it for a bit and pay more attention to yourself the things you mentioned - the self love and guided meditation. You won't be stopping your taper, because your body will let you know when you need to lower your dose naturally, but it will be one less thing on the top of your mind. If that makes sense.

Let us know how you're doing!

Nancy
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Unread 07-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #50
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Thank you Nancy for the links with the free guided mediation. I am really enjoying them. I think I will benefit from guided meditation. Its really relaxing. I just had a aniexty related stomach ache, get them all the time, and the meditation helped to relieve it a bit.
I do want to find a really good set for stress/aniexty and depression. Not worried about the $ if it is going to help me.
Started to get anxious about closing on the 2nd and then the big move. I am excited, but still anxious. I am so looking forward to vacay at the outer banks in early Sept.!

Doing good with my taper. Day 3 on 4mgs. I also have decided to get motivated and force myself to leave the house at least every other day. All around sense of feeling happier is starting with in me.
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