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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:20 PM   #1
Stringz
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Default Just started Suboxone - problems/questions

Hi everyone,

Well as the subject implies i have just started suboxone and i have some questions and concerns. ive been on subutex for the last two days or so and suboxone for about a day now as my doc just switched it... anyway, the thing is.. i keep feeling as if im still in minor withdrawal. im not even able to sleep more than an hour each day and even that is barely sleep and i wake up with the sheets sticking to me and im all sweaty.. even just laying in bed i have the sheets sticking to me and im so hot and these hot flashes keep coming on.. why is this happening?

my doctor said one 8 mg pill is equivalent to about 10 to 20 vicodin, 2 is the 30-50 and 3 is up to 90.. which doesnt make sense to me anyway since doubling and tripling would just be the double and triple of the initial amount. and i just realized i didnt think to question the actual mgs of the vicodin equivalent.. would that be 5 or 7.5 or 10 mgs? or is what my doc told me not so accurate? im trying to figure out why im not feeling well, maybe its just not enough.. maybe its something else.. i dont know, but i hope someone can help me.. id really appreciate it..

also, i have another question.. proglumide, even though there is tolerance to it theres definitely no withdrawal from that right? just making sure.

ok, i hope someone responds soon, id really like some support
thanks
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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:33 PM   #2
gwen
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hi stringz, sorry you're not feeling well. i guess my first question is how much are you taking? sorry if i missed it in thre somewhere... peace- gwen
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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:33 PM   #3
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hi stringz, sorry you're not feeling well. i guess my first question is how much are you taking? sorry if i missed it in thre somewhere... peace- gwen
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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:37 PM   #4
Jake
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Welcome Stringz,
The conversion relationship is actually different for everyone. How the sub effects you depends on many factors. There were some studies that showed 16mgs of sub was as effective as 60mgs of methadone at keeping people off other opioids.

How much suboxone are you on?

I don't know anything about proglumide..sorry
Jake
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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:37 PM   #5
Jake
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Welcome Stringz,
The conversion relationship is actually different for everyone. How the sub effects you depends on many factors. There were some studies that showed 16mgs of sub was as effective as 60mgs of methadone at keeping people off other opioids.

How much suboxone are you on?

I don't know anything about proglumide..sorry
Jake
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Unread 12-31-2005, 06:35 PM   #6
Stringz
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oh, sorry.. thanks for the replies.. i mean im trying to play with the amount and figure out what works best so anywhere from 10 to 20 mgs for now.. i dont know yet.. ive had up to 24 mgs at once and that still kept me feeling the same with that minor withdrawal type feeling..
i read about precipitated withdrawal though and how people who were on large doses of longer lasting full agonist opioids/opiates could switch to suboxone and have that happen where they have to go through some withdrawal for a few days or week or whatever and have dysphoria and such for a little while until the body acclimates.. so maybe thats whats going on.. but my doctor didnt tell me about that..
thats my best guess though, let me know what you think.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 06:35 PM   #7
Stringz
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oh, sorry.. thanks for the replies.. i mean im trying to play with the amount and figure out what works best so anywhere from 10 to 20 mgs for now.. i dont know yet.. ive had up to 24 mgs at once and that still kept me feeling the same with that minor withdrawal type feeling..
i read about precipitated withdrawal though and how people who were on large doses of longer lasting full agonist opioids/opiates could switch to suboxone and have that happen where they have to go through some withdrawal for a few days or week or whatever and have dysphoria and such for a little while until the body acclimates.. so maybe thats whats going on.. but my doctor didnt tell me about that..
thats my best guess though, let me know what you think.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 06:53 PM   #8
SomeDayBFree
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Greetings ~

What was your DOC and how much were you using prior to initiating buprenorphine therapy?

In my own situation for example, I have had two experiences with buprenorphine (I know...should have "gotten" it the first time). The first experience left me feeling wonderful within 24 hours. The second time, although the most challenging withdrawal symptoms were tackled, I still felt not quite right for about 3-4 days. I was certainly functional and no one else would have suspected anything to be out of the ordinary, but I wasn't 100% by any means. Of course the second experience was after a relatively short (6months) but very heavy period of abuse - much more so than the first time. I am inclined to think that might have been part of it.

I am very curious about your reference to proglumide. I do a great deal of reading of this nature in my profession and this is not something I have come across. I did look it up and found it to be of significant interest. How did you come about learning about it?

BTW - Welcome to the board! You will find that newcomers are very welcome here and there is a great deal of objective, fact oriented learning going on!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 12-31-2005, 06:53 PM   #9
SomeDayBFree
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Greetings ~

What was your DOC and how much were you using prior to initiating buprenorphine therapy?

In my own situation for example, I have had two experiences with buprenorphine (I know...should have "gotten" it the first time). The first experience left me feeling wonderful within 24 hours. The second time, although the most challenging withdrawal symptoms were tackled, I still felt not quite right for about 3-4 days. I was certainly functional and no one else would have suspected anything to be out of the ordinary, but I wasn't 100% by any means. Of course the second experience was after a relatively short (6months) but very heavy period of abuse - much more so than the first time. I am inclined to think that might have been part of it.

I am very curious about your reference to proglumide. I do a great deal of reading of this nature in my profession and this is not something I have come across. I did look it up and found it to be of significant interest. How did you come about learning about it?

BTW - Welcome to the board! You will find that newcomers are very welcome here and there is a great deal of objective, fact oriented learning going on!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 12-31-2005, 10:07 PM   #10
Stringz
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DOC? you mean like what was i on or no? i dont know what you mean, sorry. I have had pretty heavy abuse though and for nearly two years id say at pretty high doses.

My situation sounds similar to your second experience. though i havent even slept more than a few hours in the last three days and to me it feels worse than just a little out of normalcy. i mean its not even as bad as mild withdrawal to me.. well that depends on how mild mild withdrawal is cus that could still be brutal for someone with a huge tolerance compared to others.. but i dont even think this would be as bad as mild withdrawal from not not so heavy use so eh.. i dunno, its like i almost feel ok but i cant get any sleep, my body is really hot all of the time and im like sticking to the sheets and getting them a little wet.. when i do finally get to sleep for maybe a half hour then i wake up sweating and hot and feeling like i was just in bad withdrawal or hot flashes type stuff and then that feeling goes away.. but that also comes off and on throughout the day.. its pretty aggravating considering i wanted to get on this stuff to not have to go through any more withdrawals and stuff.. not even anything remotely like it even if it is very minor.. i dont want to have to feel this anymore.. and this not sleeping thing is really bad..

Oh, the proglumide.. well ive known a great deal about it for years just from reading about it from sites and so on as well as word of mouth and message boards, stuff like that.. and i was actually able to acquire a large amount of it late in my abuse, unfortunately it was too late to really help me much since i was that far out. its really sad that everyone cant use that right from the beginning to help avoid tolerance and make doses stronger and longer. but most people arent even aware of it and its pretty difficult to acquire. and about my question concerning withdrawal to proglumide, im almost positive theres no withdrawal cus its just not that type of drug but i just wanted to be sure since im in the situation i am in with suboxone. i know tolerance can form if there is continued use though.

what is your profession?
age? where ya from?

so far i think you guys are pretty cool
and thanks for the welcome!
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Unread 12-31-2005, 10:07 PM   #11
Stringz
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DOC? you mean like what was i on or no? i dont know what you mean, sorry. I have had pretty heavy abuse though and for nearly two years id say at pretty high doses.

My situation sounds similar to your second experience. though i havent even slept more than a few hours in the last three days and to me it feels worse than just a little out of normalcy. i mean its not even as bad as mild withdrawal to me.. well that depends on how mild mild withdrawal is cus that could still be brutal for someone with a huge tolerance compared to others.. but i dont even think this would be as bad as mild withdrawal from not not so heavy use so eh.. i dunno, its like i almost feel ok but i cant get any sleep, my body is really hot all of the time and im like sticking to the sheets and getting them a little wet.. when i do finally get to sleep for maybe a half hour then i wake up sweating and hot and feeling like i was just in bad withdrawal or hot flashes type stuff and then that feeling goes away.. but that also comes off and on throughout the day.. its pretty aggravating considering i wanted to get on this stuff to not have to go through any more withdrawals and stuff.. not even anything remotely like it even if it is very minor.. i dont want to have to feel this anymore.. and this not sleeping thing is really bad..

Oh, the proglumide.. well ive known a great deal about it for years just from reading about it from sites and so on as well as word of mouth and message boards, stuff like that.. and i was actually able to acquire a large amount of it late in my abuse, unfortunately it was too late to really help me much since i was that far out. its really sad that everyone cant use that right from the beginning to help avoid tolerance and make doses stronger and longer. but most people arent even aware of it and its pretty difficult to acquire. and about my question concerning withdrawal to proglumide, im almost positive theres no withdrawal cus its just not that type of drug but i just wanted to be sure since im in the situation i am in with suboxone. i know tolerance can form if there is continued use though.

what is your profession?
age? where ya from?

so far i think you guys are pretty cool
and thanks for the welcome!
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Unread 12-31-2005, 10:34 PM   #12
SomeDayBFree
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So sorry about the abbreviations... Sometimes people tend to think that everyone that shares a similar history would know certain abbreviations, although that is truly an unfair assumption. "DOC" means Drug of Choice; In other words, what was your drug of abuse, as well as in what quantity were you ingesting it?

From what I have seen on this and other websites, as well as my own experiences, most people feel pretty good (not necessariy 100%) in 24 hours or so. However, a large number feel so-so with some transient symptoms such as yours for a few days. Almost everyone feels pretty good by the end of the first week - so give it some more time. Another suggestion related to sleeping difficulties: Many people tend to take a dose in the evening, thinking it will get them through the night. It has been my experience, both the first and the second time using buprenorphine, that if I take a second dose anytime after 5pm, I have difficulty with sleeping.

Most people find that after the first week, once daily dosing in the morning or early afternoon is preferable to divided doses unless there would be a medical reason or personal preference to do otherwise. This also helps to alleviate the sleep issue.

Don't hesitate to ask whatever questions you may have. Also, if you are so inclined and don't have a lot to do on this New Year's Eve, take a leisurely stroll throughout the entire website. There is a vast amount of information and resources for the taking. When I first found the site, I spent some time reading everything there was here. I particularly appreciate the fact that the information made available is fact and research based, and there are prescribing physicians who post and share their experiences also. We can all learn a great deal from each other and everyone's shared experience is valuable, so feel free to become active and involved. It's a support group in and of itself!

Congratulations on a grand start to a New Year!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 12-31-2005, 10:34 PM   #13
SomeDayBFree
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So sorry about the abbreviations... Sometimes people tend to think that everyone that shares a similar history would know certain abbreviations, although that is truly an unfair assumption. "DOC" means Drug of Choice; In other words, what was your drug of abuse, as well as in what quantity were you ingesting it?

From what I have seen on this and other websites, as well as my own experiences, most people feel pretty good (not necessariy 100%) in 24 hours or so. However, a large number feel so-so with some transient symptoms such as yours for a few days. Almost everyone feels pretty good by the end of the first week - so give it some more time. Another suggestion related to sleeping difficulties: Many people tend to take a dose in the evening, thinking it will get them through the night. It has been my experience, both the first and the second time using buprenorphine, that if I take a second dose anytime after 5pm, I have difficulty with sleeping.

Most people find that after the first week, once daily dosing in the morning or early afternoon is preferable to divided doses unless there would be a medical reason or personal preference to do otherwise. This also helps to alleviate the sleep issue.

Don't hesitate to ask whatever questions you may have. Also, if you are so inclined and don't have a lot to do on this New Year's Eve, take a leisurely stroll throughout the entire website. There is a vast amount of information and resources for the taking. When I first found the site, I spent some time reading everything there was here. I particularly appreciate the fact that the information made available is fact and research based, and there are prescribing physicians who post and share their experiences also. We can all learn a great deal from each other and everyone's shared experience is valuable, so feel free to become active and involved. It's a support group in and of itself!

Congratulations on a grand start to a New Year!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:22 PM   #14
Stringz
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Thanks a lot. Yeah I'll see what happens in the next few days or so. Hopefully things get better.

So, what was i taking? Mostly Vics/Percs for the last year and a half or so, maybe a little longer. With some other opioids on the side used far less in frequency. Then for the last three months or so I had a hard time getting those so i had to take other longer lasting opiates/opioids and that continued to raise my tolerance as well. when i was on the vics it was probably an estimated 50 pills - 10mg .. but i went farther when i stopped those so my tolerance could have gone up quite a bit since then as well. i cant really say my dose of what i did after the vics for those months afterward and id rather not get into that anyway, doesnt matter either way but yeah my tolerance definitely went up more during the last few months as well.. so i dont know exactly how many in equivalence to vics but its somewhere up there over the 50 pill level.. could be 70, could be 80, could be more, could be less... dunno..

Yeah, I was doing a lot of reading from the FAQ before and the dosing guide and some other stuff.. i'll probably read some more later. I dont think im going to do anything tonight. actually its kinda depressing thinking that im not going to do anything while everyone else is. im not sure yet, but not feeling too well is also deterring me. my doc said it was fine to drink. i saw some posts on here saying otherwise, but im sure as long as its not heavy drinking itd be alright. dunno if im going to at all yet or not though so eh..

what are you doin tonight? (if you haven't left already)


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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:22 PM   #15
Stringz
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Thanks a lot. Yeah I'll see what happens in the next few days or so. Hopefully things get better.

So, what was i taking? Mostly Vics/Percs for the last year and a half or so, maybe a little longer. With some other opioids on the side used far less in frequency. Then for the last three months or so I had a hard time getting those so i had to take other longer lasting opiates/opioids and that continued to raise my tolerance as well. when i was on the vics it was probably an estimated 50 pills - 10mg .. but i went farther when i stopped those so my tolerance could have gone up quite a bit since then as well. i cant really say my dose of what i did after the vics for those months afterward and id rather not get into that anyway, doesnt matter either way but yeah my tolerance definitely went up more during the last few months as well.. so i dont know exactly how many in equivalence to vics but its somewhere up there over the 50 pill level.. could be 70, could be 80, could be more, could be less... dunno..

Yeah, I was doing a lot of reading from the FAQ before and the dosing guide and some other stuff.. i'll probably read some more later. I dont think im going to do anything tonight. actually its kinda depressing thinking that im not going to do anything while everyone else is. im not sure yet, but not feeling too well is also deterring me. my doc said it was fine to drink. i saw some posts on here saying otherwise, but im sure as long as its not heavy drinking itd be alright. dunno if im going to at all yet or not though so eh..

what are you doin tonight? (if you haven't left already)


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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:24 PM   #16
gwen
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stringz, i'll echo SomeDayBFree on the taking the sub later in the day also. i can't take it in the afternoon or else i can't really sleep well at all. so i take it all in the a.m. now. i started at 16mg in june, down to 12mg. didn't have any problems besides the not sleeping and once i took it all in the a.m. i did ok. maybe that would help you get some sleep. sorry i can't help with the proglumide. i had to look it up! never heard of it before. hopefully someone will have more insight with the amount you're taking than i can. once again sorry . but hang in there, things will get better. peace- gwen

oh, one more question. were you in withdrawal when you started with the sub? just wondering if you weren't if that would have any lingering effects for the couple of days.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:24 PM   #17
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stringz, i'll echo SomeDayBFree on the taking the sub later in the day also. i can't take it in the afternoon or else i can't really sleep well at all. so i take it all in the a.m. now. i started at 16mg in june, down to 12mg. didn't have any problems besides the not sleeping and once i took it all in the a.m. i did ok. maybe that would help you get some sleep. sorry i can't help with the proglumide. i had to look it up! never heard of it before. hopefully someone will have more insight with the amount you're taking than i can. once again sorry . but hang in there, things will get better. peace- gwen

oh, one more question. were you in withdrawal when you started with the sub? just wondering if you weren't if that would have any lingering effects for the couple of days.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:53 PM   #18
SomeDayBFree
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Stringz states, "Then for the last three months or so I had a hard time getting those so i had to take other longer lasting opiates/opioids"

If you were on some type of sustained release opiates it is quite possible that this is the reason for your "slower" response. Sustained release opiates generally require a longer period of abstinence before the initiation of buprenorphine therapy than do the shorter acting variety such as Vicoden. Still, you are likely to be doing quite well within a couple of days, or even less.

About the drinking - I posted on another thread about my own experience with drinking only one glass of wine while on Suboxone. It was not pleasant. I ended up with a raging headache and felt generally unwell, just from the combo of Sub and one glass of wine. I imagine it's not really a problem for everyone, however I think it's important to weigh the pros and cons of imbibing at this point in your journey.

You asked about my plans for the evening. I'm a mom with 4 kids, and the youngest two (ages 14 and 16) are hosting a New Years Eve party for about 15 friends. My husband and I have always chosen not to go out and I am quite happy knowing that my own kids are safe and secure at home. Anyone that comes to our party (this is the 10th year we've done this, since the oldest was 15 - he's now 25!) is required to bring a sleeping bag and pillow and spend the night - so that I don't have to worry about any of our "guests" getting home safely. Hubby and I do an all nighter so that everyone is thoroughly chaperoned. There will be lots of food, loud music, dancing, games and laughter. They're all great kids and we've never had even one ounce of a problem in all these years. It is quite possible to have a grand time with no mind altering substance of any kind and my kids have proven that, time and time again! I'm a very fortunate mom. Of course, I DO have to worry about the two oldest boys who are now on their own in the world, living a couple of hours away in opposite directions. I know that they have their acts together however, and they're sensible young men. Still, it's a mom's job to worry!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 12-31-2005, 11:53 PM   #19
SomeDayBFree
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Stringz states, "Then for the last three months or so I had a hard time getting those so i had to take other longer lasting opiates/opioids"

If you were on some type of sustained release opiates it is quite possible that this is the reason for your "slower" response. Sustained release opiates generally require a longer period of abstinence before the initiation of buprenorphine therapy than do the shorter acting variety such as Vicoden. Still, you are likely to be doing quite well within a couple of days, or even less.

About the drinking - I posted on another thread about my own experience with drinking only one glass of wine while on Suboxone. It was not pleasant. I ended up with a raging headache and felt generally unwell, just from the combo of Sub and one glass of wine. I imagine it's not really a problem for everyone, however I think it's important to weigh the pros and cons of imbibing at this point in your journey.

You asked about my plans for the evening. I'm a mom with 4 kids, and the youngest two (ages 14 and 16) are hosting a New Years Eve party for about 15 friends. My husband and I have always chosen not to go out and I am quite happy knowing that my own kids are safe and secure at home. Anyone that comes to our party (this is the 10th year we've done this, since the oldest was 15 - he's now 25!) is required to bring a sleeping bag and pillow and spend the night - so that I don't have to worry about any of our "guests" getting home safely. Hubby and I do an all nighter so that everyone is thoroughly chaperoned. There will be lots of food, loud music, dancing, games and laughter. They're all great kids and we've never had even one ounce of a problem in all these years. It is quite possible to have a grand time with no mind altering substance of any kind and my kids have proven that, time and time again! I'm a very fortunate mom. Of course, I DO have to worry about the two oldest boys who are now on their own in the world, living a couple of hours away in opposite directions. I know that they have their acts together however, and they're sensible young men. Still, it's a mom's job to worry!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 01-01-2006, 12:04 AM   #20
Stringz
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Sounds fun, I hope you have a great time!

Alright, well I'll talk to ya later, thanks a bunch

peace
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Unread 01-01-2006, 12:04 AM   #21
Stringz
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Sounds fun, I hope you have a great time!

Alright, well I'll talk to ya later, thanks a bunch

peace
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Unread 01-01-2006, 10:27 AM   #22
estaban
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STringz, first of all wellcome.I have been on sub for a couple of years now.I do remember getting the sweats in the beginning,allmost like hot flashes,weird.It will lessen and eventually go away with just an occasinal one here and there.Everybody needs a dose that feels right.I take 12 mgs and I feel great my life is incredible because it also helps my depression and I have the freedom to do what I want.I am not controlled by "programs" or having to cop.Drug addicts want instant fixes,this one may take a while to adjust to give it a chance,we are all in this boat together keep talkin..

Estaban
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Unread 01-01-2006, 10:27 AM   #23
estaban
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STringz, first of all wellcome.I have been on sub for a couple of years now.I do remember getting the sweats in the beginning,allmost like hot flashes,weird.It will lessen and eventually go away with just an occasinal one here and there.Everybody needs a dose that feels right.I take 12 mgs and I feel great my life is incredible because it also helps my depression and I have the freedom to do what I want.I am not controlled by "programs" or having to cop.Drug addicts want instant fixes,this one may take a while to adjust to give it a chance,we are all in this boat together keep talkin..

Estaban
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Unread 01-01-2006, 10:34 AM   #24
estaban
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Stringz, I just realized I never addressed the problems your having with sleep.My experience was just like yours.Ya it will get better(just what you wanted to hear) I finally got some trazadone from my doc who also prescribes my suboxone.Also tylenol p.m. works and also dyphenhydrides,,like allergy meds. hope this helps


Estaban
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Unread 01-01-2006, 10:34 AM   #25
estaban
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Stringz, I just realized I never addressed the problems your having with sleep.My experience was just like yours.Ya it will get better(just what you wanted to hear) I finally got some trazadone from my doc who also prescribes my suboxone.Also tylenol p.m. works and also dyphenhydrides,,like allergy meds. hope this helps


Estaban
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Unread 01-01-2006, 02:31 PM   #26
Jaywalker
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This is all good stuff....

I'm slated to start Sub on Tuesday (about 48 hours to go) and over the last few days this forum has been extremely helpful. I'm concerned about the MS-Contin and have been cutting back about 15 mg a day now for the past three days.

All your experiences here and the sharing has been tremendously helpful and inspiring. Many thanks to all of you, and I'll keep you posted on mine as well. Right now, all I am is nervous....

Thanks and be well....
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Unread 01-01-2006, 02:31 PM   #27
Jaywalker
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This is all good stuff....

I'm slated to start Sub on Tuesday (about 48 hours to go) and over the last few days this forum has been extremely helpful. I'm concerned about the MS-Contin and have been cutting back about 15 mg a day now for the past three days.

All your experiences here and the sharing has been tremendously helpful and inspiring. Many thanks to all of you, and I'll keep you posted on mine as well. Right now, all I am is nervous....

Thanks and be well....
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Unread 01-01-2006, 04:08 PM   #28
SomeDayBFree
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Jaywalker ~

I just want to emphasize the importance of discontinuing use of the long acting opiods/opiates well in advance of your first dose of buprenorphine. You need to be in mild to moderate withdrawal and be sure to check those pupils! They are the best indicator. You will undoubtedly be somewhat uncomfortable in the interim (between ceasing your pain meds and initiating buprenorphine) but this is necessary - and of course, short-lived! I only have a few moments or I would search out the appropriate reference material for you. It's all here somewhere. We absolutely want you to be successful in your transition.

On another note, although I am on bupe for narcotic dependency, that dependency began as a "side effect" of chronic pain. I have four herniated discs that like to announce their presence regularly, unfortunately. When I opted to start bupe, I was aware that it had pain relieving properties, but even my physician was uncertain whether it would be a helpful adjunct due to it's ceiling. My experience has been nothing but positive in the area of pain management - as well as the successful intervention for comorbidity of addiction and depression.

I now take Subutex rather than Suboxone (personal preference and physician agreed) and have made a discovery that might be to your benefit. I had initialy attempted the once a day dosing, but found that my pain was poorly managed this way. I started dividing my dose - 2mg around 8am, 2mg around 1pm and then another 2mg around 5pm. This works beautifully for me! I am not pain free and I don't ever expect to be. However, I have less pain now with Subutex than I ever did with the standard fair of narcotics. To be honest, I am quite amazed. I function at about 85% now - even in the morning when I get up, which was always a real problem for me.

Also - if your issue with narcotics is strictly a rising tolerance in an effort manage your pain rather than a true addiction, you might be better off all the way around with Subutex rather than Suboxone. Often, physicians will start an individual off with Subutex anyway for a few days and then switch to Suboxone. This switch is done primarily to prevent the injecting of pure buprenorphine in an effort to abuse the drug. I had used Suboxone initially for about 10 months during my first experience with it. My second go around, I used Suboxone for about a month and I noticed that I had a low grade, but chronic headache. My doctor suggested that I switch to Subutex as some of his patients had also experienced headaches. It worked like a charm! No more headaches! Personally, I would rather take as few chemicals into my body as possible now, so the change to Subutex was a step in the right direction for me.

One last thing - I think I recall that you mentioned your physician was not up on "all things buprenorphine", so to speak. If you feel that he/she is a willing learner, provide this website for referencing and make sure and let him/her know that there are physicians actively involved. There is even a forum strictly for the docs (I truly wish it was open to other higher level medical professionals also - on an individually considered basis, at least... This is a hint to those in charge who might be reading...!)There is so very much to be learned here!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 01-01-2006, 04:08 PM   #29
SomeDayBFree
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Jaywalker ~

I just want to emphasize the importance of discontinuing use of the long acting opiods/opiates well in advance of your first dose of buprenorphine. You need to be in mild to moderate withdrawal and be sure to check those pupils! They are the best indicator. You will undoubtedly be somewhat uncomfortable in the interim (between ceasing your pain meds and initiating buprenorphine) but this is necessary - and of course, short-lived! I only have a few moments or I would search out the appropriate reference material for you. It's all here somewhere. We absolutely want you to be successful in your transition.

On another note, although I am on bupe for narcotic dependency, that dependency began as a "side effect" of chronic pain. I have four herniated discs that like to announce their presence regularly, unfortunately. When I opted to start bupe, I was aware that it had pain relieving properties, but even my physician was uncertain whether it would be a helpful adjunct due to it's ceiling. My experience has been nothing but positive in the area of pain management - as well as the successful intervention for comorbidity of addiction and depression.

I now take Subutex rather than Suboxone (personal preference and physician agreed) and have made a discovery that might be to your benefit. I had initialy attempted the once a day dosing, but found that my pain was poorly managed this way. I started dividing my dose - 2mg around 8am, 2mg around 1pm and then another 2mg around 5pm. This works beautifully for me! I am not pain free and I don't ever expect to be. However, I have less pain now with Subutex than I ever did with the standard fair of narcotics. To be honest, I am quite amazed. I function at about 85% now - even in the morning when I get up, which was always a real problem for me.

Also - if your issue with narcotics is strictly a rising tolerance in an effort manage your pain rather than a true addiction, you might be better off all the way around with Subutex rather than Suboxone. Often, physicians will start an individual off with Subutex anyway for a few days and then switch to Suboxone. This switch is done primarily to prevent the injecting of pure buprenorphine in an effort to abuse the drug. I had used Suboxone initially for about 10 months during my first experience with it. My second go around, I used Suboxone for about a month and I noticed that I had a low grade, but chronic headache. My doctor suggested that I switch to Subutex as some of his patients had also experienced headaches. It worked like a charm! No more headaches! Personally, I would rather take as few chemicals into my body as possible now, so the change to Subutex was a step in the right direction for me.

One last thing - I think I recall that you mentioned your physician was not up on "all things buprenorphine", so to speak. If you feel that he/she is a willing learner, provide this website for referencing and make sure and let him/her know that there are physicians actively involved. There is even a forum strictly for the docs (I truly wish it was open to other higher level medical professionals also - on an individually considered basis, at least... This is a hint to those in charge who might be reading...!)There is so very much to be learned here!

SomeDayBFree
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Unread 01-01-2006, 04:54 PM   #30
Jake
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jaywalker, I second everything Somedaybfree said!
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Unread 01-01-2006, 04:54 PM   #31
Jake
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jaywalker, I second everything Somedaybfree said!
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