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Unread 03-21-2008, 12:43 AM   #1
Mr. T
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I have been lurking this site since I was inducted on suboxone july 5, 07. I am 23 and have a five year on and off history with opioids.
My addiction began with hanging around with the wrong people. I used
hydrocodone recreationaly with the people I associated with. In about
the summer of 03 my father had many teeth extracted by a oral surgeon because of gum disease. Like a soldier, he only occasionally used his narcotic pain relievers when he could not bare the pain anymore; this resulted in many leftover meds and his doctor gave him so many refills. Their were about 200 Norco 10/325 hydrocodone tablets and
about 5 refills. This was more than enough for me to become emotionally and physically dependent; genetic and environmental factors were also at work. Besides my father, everybody in my family has a history of substance abuse; particularly alcohol. Also, depression haunts both sides of my family. I have general anxiety; every little thing bothers me. I also used to have severe OCD, but it went away when I started high school; it occasionaly will come back, but not as severe as it was when I was in junior high school. After I took my dads meds I begged and pestured a older experienced opioid user, who was also a good life long friend for a drug connection. After six days of constant phone calls he gave in and gave me a phone number to a oxycontin peddler. Lets call my friend George. George was my partner in crime; we also knew each other since we were little because we went to the same Kindergarden-8th grade school together. As my addiction gotten worst I met a very bad man named Eric who was on the methadone program; this guy really took advantage of my addiction with his methadone take home supply. Soon he had me doing his job which consisted of a lowly paper route in the middle of the night in exchange for a 80mg. bottle of methadone which I happily excepted at the time. This went on for the whole summer till everything went to hell. He lost his paper route job and started selling his medication to me for a dollar a milligram. By the end of the summer I was very physically dependant; I always thought Eric did this to me on purpose to get me hooked but he always denied it.
I eventually lost touch with Eric; from what I last heard he was either dead of some complication or living in his mothers house. To this day since nov. 13 04 I never heard from him again. In between doing methadone I also used oxycontin, which has always been my DOC.
When I couldn't get methadone or oxy's I would go to the dirty south side of Chicago and score heroin. I never used intravenously though; I always thought it was the difference between life and death. On nov. 13, of 2004 I managed to quit cold turkey for 13 months. My dad took my car and locked me in the house but it still required work on my part. On dec. 25, 0f 2005 I relapsed at a christmas party by overhearing the home owner talk about vicodin. I was under the influence of alcohol when I relapsed that night. I went into the home owners master bedroom medicine cabinet and took 8 5/500 hydrocodone tablets. The home owner or my family never found out luckily.
Through Jan. of 2006- oct 31, of 2006 I managed to use opioids recreationally. I was only using methadone and hydrocodone, that is probably how I kept my drug use recreational. On oct. 31. 2006 this all changed when me and George split a Oxy. 80mg tablet. Snorting oxycontin was always a very pleasurable experience for me and was difficult for me to get the will to recreationally use it; for me, I used oxycontin every chance I got. In june of 07 I could no longer find oxycontin and I started to use heroin. I finally said enough is enough and found a Suboxone doctor and got inducted. Through jan. 06 -
july 07 I always had little breaks of a few weeks to six weeks but always ended up relapsing. When I wasn't using opioids I used cannibis and GBL(GHB). I never liked GBL but George always had it and I always felt like sh*t so I took it. Ever since starting Suboxone my life had changed for the better. I am more stable but still get mood swings. I work out regularly and live a healthy life style; this helps immensely. My starting dose was 8mg.; I did manage to taper to 2mg. basically withdrawl free. I decided I wasn't ready to get off just yet and started craving to take more suboxone. My doctor and me decided to go back up to 8mg.'s again. I am planing to go to 4mg.'s for now and we will see what happens in the future.
I recently just started Wellbutrin XL for mood swings, adult ADHD, and
because the drug has very tolerable side effects. I would appreciate some feedback about wellbutrin? I was thinking it might make it easier to taper. My future posts will not be this long; I just wanted to tell my story. Mr. T (Mike) Chicago IL.
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Unread 03-21-2008, 04:37 AM   #2
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Hi Mr. T, and welcome to the NAABT site! I am glad that you decided to post, this is a great place and lots of good people who have much to share about their experiences. However, you will get more responses if you post on the main support site. You are in the "Sticky Topics" which generally do not get new posts. So, I am just suggesting you move your post over and then I am sure you will get responses. Again, welcome aboard and best wishes!
Nan
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Unread 03-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #3
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Hi Mr. T and welcome. Congratulations on putting your addiction into remission!

If the Wellbutrin helps with your general overall well being, then it stands to reason that it could help with your taper. But the best tapers are done slowly, giving time to adjust between each drop, and not overthinking the process.

Here's a thread with taper stories all in one spot:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5324

Hope this is helpful.
Nancy
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Unread 03-21-2008, 06:09 PM   #4
Mr. T
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Thank you for the warm welcome. I am having a problem posting on the main support site because the 'new topic' icon is locked along with everything else. Also, can somebody please explain to me how to move my post over to the main support site; thank you.

I am a little confused about the main support site; I don't know how to find it. Is it called the 'Main support site'. I will try to tinker with this. Sorry about the unrelated subject matter of my last few posts; I will just try to figure out what I am doing.
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Unread 03-21-2008, 06:34 PM   #5
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Mr. T,

I think you are on the main support site. Not unless I've been posting on the wrong site for 12 months.

First of all, welcome. Opiate addiction is a nasty habit, but more than that, it seems to mess with a persons brain. Once bitten, it's always hard to shake that feeling we felt, even years later.

Wellbutrin was first prescribed for depression. It was also packaged as Zyban (Wellbutrin), to help people quit smoking.

Wellbutrin is related to Teunate (Diethylpropion), which is a stimulant and is given for weight loss (Schedule IV). Wellbutrin is Bupropion, and is given for depression, but hardly has any of the stimulant effects that Diethylpropion has. It has been on the market long enough for it to be considered relatively safe.

Welcome to the board,

Doug
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Unread 03-21-2008, 06:42 PM   #6
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Hi Mr. T, I'm sorry, I moved your thread to here - the Support board. So it's good where it is.

Nancy
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Unread 03-22-2008, 04:01 AM   #7
Mr. T
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Thank You Nancy, moments after I posted my confused thoughts I caught on; no worries.
I started Suboxone in July 5, 2007. My doctor is flexibile to whatever I want; he also expresses compassion and a decent understanding of addiction.
The first few weeks of treatment was very euphoric for me. Not that I was high, I felt sober; but my opioid related anxiety issues were gone.
Now that I look back, I think I felt euphoria because I finally put my addiction in remission and I have to admit; it was exciting just feeling stable. The first month of treatment was so enjoyable I barely felt the need to sleep. I just was enjoying going to work, having coffee in the morning, and watching the morning news. I had never been able to feel normal since I was 19; so it was euphoric just to be on a nice level plain.
Sure enough, these feelings faded away and I started to feel like the old, nit pick every little damn thing in life Mike T. I sleep normal now, and I know little need for sleep is a symptom of mania. I don't have bi-polar; I had never had all the symptoms of mania and manic depression. I am rather crazy in my opinion; I feel a little nuts. My mood swings are do to nit picking on things that bother me; stuipid, unnecessary things. I had a superficial scar that measured less than 3mm drive me ill once. Me and my doctor determined it was my OCD manifesting into a form of Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I always had self image problems despite being as attactive as hollywoods elite. I don't want to brag but it is the truth. I even had issues with penis size despite being well above average in length and girth; and getting great feedback from women and girlfriends.
You probably don't want to here about that, but this is what drug abuse has done to my brain; it has distorted my outlook on every little aspect in life. I only hope Suboxone maintenance can help me pick up the pieces of my life and focus on more important things in life. One of my problems today is unnecessary surfing and research online; the internet can put my life on hold sometimes.
Since starting suboxone I have become a real estate sales person and appraiser. I did it rather quickly; Opioids robbed me of going to college.
I am contiplating going back to school; I have a reoccuring dream about being in a class room and feeling a state of panic because I did not prepare for a final exam. I am currently doing well at work and at the gym.
I started wellbutrin xl; I just want to feel happy. I am tired of losing interest in things and tired of feeling tired and lazy. When I am at the gym sometimes, it seems like I am just going through the motions; I hate that. When I go to work out, I like to work out like a professional athlete; I told you I am little crazy. This is my second day on wellbutrin xl; hopefully it's not influencing this post. I do not feel jitery or anxious; so don't think I am having a manic relapse. I look forward to posting again; thank you for listening. I wrote this post in a manner were my personality is a little exposed; feel free to possibly understand what may be wrong with me, if anything. My father always said I have to much time on my hands, which is true.
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Unread 03-22-2008, 08:47 AM   #8
OhioMike
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Welcome to the forum Mr. T

Mike
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Unread 03-22-2008, 12:43 PM   #9
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I welcome any man who is well above average in length and girth AND too much time on his hands!

Stace
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Unread 03-22-2008, 12:51 PM   #10
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Hi Mr. T, Do you go to a counselor/therapist? You mentioned a doctor, but I didn't take note of your mentioning a therapist, but if not, that might be a good avenue to take to learn how to modify your behavior. Medications like Wellbutrin are great, but oftentimes they need to be paired with psycho-social therapy to get the best results.

Nancy
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Unread 03-22-2008, 04:44 PM   #11
Mr. T
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Stacey

I welcome any man who is well above average in length and girth AND too much time on his hands!

Stace
You do, well that's nice to know; not to mention, I am very handsome.
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Unread 03-22-2008, 04:48 PM   #12
Mr. T
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I briefly saw a theripist about two years ago, but I didn't like him.
I think I may find a new one, but don't really want to.
I am just trying to live a healthy productive lifestyle right now.
But I need some kind of therapy; perhaps I should go to meetings.
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Unread 03-22-2008, 05:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Mr. T

I briefly saw a theripist about two years ago, but I didn't like him.
I think I may find a new one, but don't really want to.
I am just trying to live a healthy productive lifestyle right now.
But I need some kind of therapy; perhaps I should go to meetings.
It's important to understand meetings are not therapy. Meetings are peer support, although important too, different from therapy with a different purpose and different goals.

Peer support is communicating with people with similar experiences and learning from how they dealt with it. These relationships can be extremely helpful especially during stressful times. Having support of people who understand exactly what you are going through is very helpful.

Counseling/Therapy, helps you change by applying science. It teaches you cognitive tools that will help you retrain your brain and reprogram yourself to not require the addicting substance. Sometimes this could be totally unrelated to addiction. For example supposed the addiction originated as a way to escape from overwhelming financial burdens. Financial counseling could help you reduce this stressor I your life. Or suppose a traumatic experience from the past would fuel the compulsion to escape, a therapist can help you learn tools to identify these things and put them out of your mind or find other ways to deal with them. There is also a comfort in understanding how this all happened to you and a therapist can provide some insight to that. What therapy is not (or shouldn't be) is someone telling you all of reasons why you shouldn't do drugs, as if they are trying to convince you that you don't, won't or shouldn't have cravings.

So by putting together a treatment plan that includes peer support, therapy, medication, and family and friend support, you'll have the best chance at making the necessary changes in your life that will ensure your addiction remains in remission forever.

Tim
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Unread 03-22-2008, 11:13 PM   #14
Mr. T
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Tim, that makes so much sense. I feel so alone in this battle sometimes.
My own father, who loves me very much try's to convince me why I shouldn't have cravings all the time. I have educated him immensely, but if I start to talk about suboxone, long-term maintenance, triggers, genetics, environmental conditions, and all the facts, there is only so much he can stand. He actually yells at me at times if I talk about my plan to fix myself and medications to much; usually he will shut me out after one minute of listening to me speak about that subject.
It seems sometimes that all he wants me to do is focus on selling condos.
My addiction is partially my fathers falt. I know this is a bold thing to say, but he was my enabler. My father is pretty wealthy. Every time I used to ask him for forty, eighty, even one hundred dollars, he would not hesitate. He even did this when he knew I had a problem with opioids.
He tried to cut me off, but I stole gold jewlrey and pawned most of my prized items. I guess enabling me was for the best; it seemed nothing could stop me from using, especially when I first started using oxycontin. I recently confronted him about why he kept enabling me and his words were " I wasn't ready to admit my son was a drug addict"; but he knew what was going on. A parent knows. The problem was I always lied, and lied well; I sometimes think I actually believed my own bullcrap. Thats how addiction is.
This one time he locked me in the house and out of desperation I called my dealer Eric to deliver me some methadone in exchange for a treasured Oris watch which my dad gave me for a high school graduation present. I used the watch as collateral, and Eric always told me I could buy it back; I never did because all the money I would later get went to getting more opioids.
I still think about that watch. My dad recently gave me a Rolex submariner for getting my life together and obtaining a realtors license. I feel guilty almost every time I look at my new watch. Sometimes I imagine running into Eric again and chopping is hand off with a cleaver and getting my Oris back.
I hope time heals what I have done to myself. It feels good posting; maybe this is a first step for me to getting the therapy I desperatly need.
I am 23, and soon if I don't relapse will have a new condo. I think moving away and being more independent will help me. I am emotionaly addicted to the comfort zone my father enables me with. He pays for all my medical needs. I am a new realtor and actually sold my first unit on my first showing; maybe this is a start for me decalaring some independence, I will be happy just paying my own bills for now. I just feel like such a loser sometimes. I just want to control my own money. I will always eat of my fathers plate; he even tells me everything he does is for me and my sister.
My dad is a real estate developer and is starting to accumulate some serious wealth; I estimate his net worth will exceed 15 million dollars by 2010. I just want to be good guy and stop thinking about medications.
The reason why I stopped my taper is because I don't want to relapse.
I was four months into treatment when I made it down to 2mg. of suboxone, but I started to feel some anxiety and restlesness. I talked to my doctor and he told me just to take the original 8mg. I started with. I was taking random doses between 4mg. and 6mg.; this is why it had to go to 8mg again.
In a perfect world I would be taking 4mg. right now. I could taper withdrawl free to 4mg. but chose not to for some reason. I tell myself I will taper when I am ready. Maybe someone can tell me why I don't want to taper. I have been having mood swings, low energy, and mild depression; this is why I started wellbutrin xl. I am on day four and things are starting to seem more clear already. I am pretty sure I am going to be fine, but definitly need to get to the source of my issues.
Thanks for listening. Mike
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Unread 03-23-2008, 06:05 AM   #15
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i wish u the best man. sounds like my story, but i robbed alot of peoples med cabs lol. and i took the whole bottle , not just a pinch. anywho man he really ripped u on that methadone. methadone is like .50 cents for the 40mg wafers at the pharm. but they dont make them anymore. liquid is cheaper. anyways. ive been on bupe for 21 months. i havn't touched anythign else inbeteween. well i had a diludid shot for a kidney stone, but it was blocked. so yea. best.
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Unread 03-23-2008, 08:51 AM   #16
Mr. T
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Thank you for reading my story mikells43. It is nice to know I am not alone.
I only hope time can help me forgive and forget.
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Unread 03-23-2008, 09:10 AM   #17
Mr. T
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Were can I find a good therapist or counselor for a low cost?
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Unread 03-23-2008, 10:30 AM   #18
OhioMike
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Begin by contacting your local health department.
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Unread 03-23-2008, 11:27 AM   #19
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Or can you can use this link on NAABT.

http://www.naabt.org/local/

Plug in your zip code and it will show you local doctors, pharmacies and counselors in your area.
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Unread 03-23-2008, 11:51 AM   #20
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Mr. T, another place to gain information on "low cost" therapy is at a local AA meetings. There will be people at these meetings who have been around and know all of the correct information for your area. They are use to working either for themselves or with others who have very limited funds. Help is out there, don't give up and use as many resources as possible.

Mike
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Unread 03-23-2008, 01:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Mr. T

Tim, that makes so much sense. I feel so alone in this battle sometimes.
My own father, who loves me very much tries to convince me why I shouldn't have cravings all the time. I have educated him immensely, but if I start to talk about suboxone, long-term maintenance, triggers, genetics, environmental conditions, and all the facts, there is only so much he can stand. He actually yells at me at times if I talk about my plan to fix myself and medications to much; usually he will shut me out after one minute of listening to me speak about that subject...
That is a common problem, the family doesn't know what their support role should be, so they do what they think is helping and try to make an argument and convince you that you shouldn't be addicted. It ends up frustrating both parties.

The role of family support is to help you change your life. They can help with the logistics of your treatment, such as making and getting to appointments, filing paperwork for payments, helping with payments, giving you what resources they can that will help you make the changes in your life that will keep your addiction in remission. The main role is to distract you from recovery and remind you what happiness there is in life. Going to a baseball game or fishing with your dad is a great way he can support you. The subject of drug or addiction never has to come up. Let your family be your refuge from thinking about recovery from addiction. It's all about quality of life and the more your life is filled with things that make you happy, the less room there is for addiction. Eventually, less time will be spent in therapy, counseling, peer support, or on medication, and hat time will be replaced with career, family, and the other important things in your life.

Family members are willing to help they just don't know what to do and often do the wrong thing. Once they understand their role in your recovery, they can leave the therapy and medical part to the experts.

Moving, is a great idea. Major changes like that will help rewire your brain. New things and new places that don't remind you of active addiction will all help immensely.

I agree with you about not even thinking about tapering until everything else in your life you have any control over is fixed and you don't have as much guilt, or stress, anxiety or depression, and only then think about tapering. If you take this in stages and have the right support team things will work out.

Best of luck and congratulations!!

Tim
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Unread 03-23-2008, 09:27 PM   #22
Mr. T
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Thank you. It is nice to finally talk to people who see things the way I do.
My dad cares about my treatment, but doesn't like dealing with it becides financialy because he likes to pretend that I am not a addict. I hope one day that he realizes what I am up against. Unfortunatly, moving is not an option; my business is in the suburbs of Chicago. All of my fathers and his partners properties are in this location. I will have to deal with the temptations of my town; however, I do not ever really get urges anymore, suboxone has truly worked wonders for me, but not miracles. Long term maintenace is my only option. I may have been an on and off opioid user, giving myself decent breaks, but always exchanged one substance for another. If I wasn't using opioids I was smoking marijuana daily and occasionaly using GHB/GBL,
alcohol, and rarely cocaine and zanax. There was one time I was completely sober, it was for about six months. I was doing really well, but had some anxiety issues and started drinking; which lead to severe depression and ultimately led to a relapse. I think it is in my best interest to stay on a level plain for a while, but I am not sure how long.
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Unread 03-24-2008, 09:14 PM   #23
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I just reread your post Tim and undestand what you meant about moving.
I do hope to move to a new home. It would be nice not to have the temptations of a old house. Just a little confusion on my part.
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