Addiction Survivors

Notices

Reply
Unread 05-11-2011, 03:49 PM   #1
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Smile Suboxone and AA/NA

Hi Folks

I've read many post's on this issue and feel a need to chime in. Many here confess their sub use to folks in AA/NA then feel like outcast's. Well is it really necessary to admit this? I mean if I'm on seizure meds or diabetes meds, must I tell all? I do not see a need to make it know to anyone but one's sponsor or if admitting it may help another sufferer.

Now if one's sponsor has a hard time with sub use, then Hey! good news-they are not good sponsors! get one that shares their story and offers help not judgement. AA/NA has traditions that make clear we are not to get into controversy nor get into issues that are considered "outside" issues. If a person makes an issue of your sub use point them to one who knows and use's the traditions in their life (yes the traditions cand be part of one's recovery)

So to sum up: Unless it is of benefit to someone, or to your sponsor, keep sub use to yourself. Also ask why is it important that you are accepted sub use and all? is it not insecurity or an effort to have a whole fellowship bend to your needs? (just questions we should ask of ourselves not a judgement as some "confess" their sub use for any number of reasons)

Do you hear anyone say to the group-Hey I take Amaryl and wonder how you all feel about that? or "I take this or that medication" No of course not. Same same with suboxone-it is between you and your sponsor and of course doctor.

if we follow this, we need not worry about judgements and if you are judged, good! that's their issue not your's. Find a group and sponsor who trully practice the 12/12

Glen AKA the swan
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
6 Users Say Thank You to theswan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (02-21-2015), Thank You (06-21-2011), Thank You (11-08-2014), Thank You (05-11-2011), Thank You (05-11-2011), Thank You (01-07-2015)
Unread 01-01-2012, 04:22 PM   #2
peaceman
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Default Trouble with acceptance on suboxone

I have been in recovery for 6-7 years. I went through i .o.p. once about 6 years ago, and managed to quit pot for two years, but as soon as i was no longer being pee tested i went back on the pills. some time later i was busted by my wife again and went back to iop for the second time. even while there i used opiates to keep from getting sick and so that i could work. I was up front about this and my counselors agreed that i was a good candidate for the suboxone treatment. I had done some advance research on this and was apprehensive about trading one drug for another. when i finally got in to consult with my dr., i voiced this concern and he was pleased to hear me say this.I have been on 8mg a day for 2 yrs now and they do the trick for the most part. I have had a couple of one day relapses, nothin major, over the last two yrs and several times i have taken more than prescribed. Now my wife gives me my meds daily. I am grateful to her for staying with me and grateful for my dr who actually seems concerned that i attend meetings and is concerned about my relationships with my wife and 4 kids. I have been attending some na meetings daily and the other day i let it slip that i was on suboxone. the reaction i got was not good, abstinence from ALL drugs is required. This sucks, i really need the meetings. I wish i could find a local meeting in the louisville ky area for sub patients. i really had a difficult time w/o suboxone and since i have been on it, my life has been stable. I have been working at a good job for a year, getting all the bills caught up, interacting with the wife and kids. I must have spirituality in my life, and i need a twelve step program as the centerpiece of my recovery. Previously i had been attending AA meetings and it seems i got more compassion there and less Nazi based recovery like i feel from NA. anybody got any advice? I am afraid that i will likely need to b on sub for quite a while. I have been an opiate abuser for over 30 years.
peaceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #3
nan
Senior Member
 
nan's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,398
Default

Hi Peaceman! Congratulations on being addiction-free and being a good dad/husband!

You said, " abstinence from ALL drugs is required" at the NA you attend. Do you mean no one can be on any medication? No blood pressure meds, no a/d's, no cholesterol meds,etc, as these are medications prescribed by a dr, the same as suboxone is prescribed for you. Of course not, they want to put a stigma on the use of suboxone only. That is so wrong!!!! What medication you take is between you and your dr. It is no one's business what your medical history is, or what medicine a dr prescribes for you. It is too bad that you divulged the information and that the reaction was so negative. Neither NA nor AA have any say so in what medicines a dr prescribes! You need to find another group and keep the info to yourself. AA has been shown to be far more open about suboxone-although there are AA groups that condemn it also. That is why we say to keep the matter between you and the dr.

I will never understand why any group would condemn a medication that allows one to get their life back and function. It really comes from ignorance about the disease of addiction and modern treatments.

You said you had been attending AA and found more compassion there, so I say go back to those meetings.

Suboxone is not evil, addiction is!

nan
nan is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to nan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (01-03-2012)
Unread 01-01-2012, 07:05 PM   #4
stp747
Senior Member
 
Posts: 206
Default

peaceman, Maybe you could check and see if there are any Celebrate Recovery meetings where you live. These meetings are usually at churches, and I have heard from some of my client's that they liked them. Good luck, Steve
stp747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-03-2012, 12:01 AM   #5
amber.4.14.11
Senior Member
 
Posts: 153
Default

theres a group of us here where I live, that go to a local AA meeting, we all know each other's on suboxone, but nobody says anything "out loud" in the meeting. we tried going as a group to NA, and same thing happened. all 8 of us got a huge lecture.
well, its been 8 months on sub for me and about 5 going to this particular AA meeting with my 'group' from the doc office, and we feel more than comfortable.....
there is a couple people we see from time to time that were at the original NA meetings we attended, and they dont say ANYthing either.
I dont know what it is, I definitely feel way more compassion at the AA mtgs.

it sucks not to say anything, but this is a very small community and we go for the support, not to talk about our meds, kinda like what Nan said. and they dont really seem to care. maybe its becuase of the anabuse they used to give alcoholics (maybe still do?) Im not sure. but I'd give it a try and just use your other lifelines to share your feelings about the use of medication,and for that matter not being able to say anything about it.

GOOD LUCK whatever you decide......keep fightin the good fight
amber.4.14.11 is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to amber.4.14.11 For This Useful Post:
Thank You (01-07-2015)
Unread 10-17-2014, 10:11 AM   #6
Beldargon
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1
Default

Just to chime in very quickly.

I understand NA's philosophy regarding complete abstinence. The issue I have is in the approaches that they take as I have read on this thread.

I believe there is a lot of wisdom in tapering down through replacement therapy with Suboxone. Further, I believe that dismissing it as something that is simply an excuse to pretend not to deal with your problem is definitely not an appropriate mindset when considering what I believe an Addict is essentially truly craving: Happiness and in my opinion, Happiness is always derived from Love.

I firmly believe that people who are going through Addiction Therapy and 12 Step Programs require Love more than anything else. I believe that dealing with Addiction Issues and being met with derision based on what are essentially Philosophical Differences and the rejection that follows can only cause the underlying issues with addiction to become much more deeply embedded in an Addict.

Love is the answer, showing compassion and concern is treating the underlying issue behind all Addiction in my honest opinion: People use to fill a gap in their lives that they feel can not be fulfilled without Drugs, Happiness.

Last edited by Beldargon; 10-17-2014 at 10:17 AM..
Beldargon is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to Beldargon For This Useful Post:
Thank You (10-17-2014), Thank You (11-10-2014)
Unread 11-08-2014, 01:27 PM   #7
eem
Junior Member
 
Posts: 24
Default my thoughts

I don't see the problem with using a drug the right way. Of course taking 20 painkillers a day isn't the right approach. But if something like suboxone helps a person not have to go through cold turkey with drawls then whats the problem. Alcoholics have it in there mind that any substance is wrong because that's how the blue book says it should be. But, there is more than one way of doing things.
eem is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Users Say Thank You to eem For This Useful Post:
Thank You (02-21-2015), Thank You (11-15-2014), Thank You (11-08-2014), Thank You (11-10-2014)
Unread 11-13-2014, 10:08 PM   #8
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

The so called blue book or Alcoholics Anonymous does not say that any substance is wrong. Unless there is another book you mean. AA in fact says to avail ourselves of psychairtrists and doctors which can be seen as tacit approval of taking what a doctor orders-I see to remember the line "we are not doctors" and we should use them.

AA/NA's problem is more a indvidual "take" on the steps and traditions rather then what is actually written (one tradition states we do not get involved with outside issues)

I love AA and wish I had the zeal for it I once had so even though I rarely go, my heart still loves AA.

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2014, 10:21 AM   #9
Sam Bailey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,630
Default

Folks,

Not to be too picky, though maybe I am?

Anyway.

A couple of posts, in reference to AA/NA, refer to the organization's principal reading material as the "Blue Book."

Actually, the book is called the "Big Book."

Just an FYI.

best,

sam b
Sam Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2014, 10:12 PM   #10
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

Well, well Mr Picky

I'll have you know the blue book is called "Alcoholics Anonymous" it is of course know affectionately as the big book (You knew that I'm sure just having fun!)

(side note) my dear friend who was very much dependent on opiates for pain entered out patient suboxone treatment. I took him over and back to the doctor-she charged $200 which is not really too high for New York as I have read-By rights insurance should pay but the money is worth it for him to get well. He is not sure if he will stay on it for pain but we will see (he has major pain issues and we can take the pain only so long)

Sam, Sorry I've not been on too often

Happy holidays

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2014, 11:14 AM   #11
Sam Bailey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,630
Default

Hey Glen,

Merry Christmas to you too! I hope your Holiday Season is just terrific...and filled with good health...and your Christmas stocking is filled with way-cool presents. Expensive ones, too! Ha! Just kidding.

Actually, I remember the "Blue Book" very well. Back in MY day, we "all" used that book to learn the prices of Used Cars. Hyped as the "Bible" for Used Cars, the "Blue Book" was nearly indispensable for us poor 60s era Okie kids.

But know what? I just looked, and my "Big Book" is, like, actually BLUE. Ha! The cover/binding/etc., I mean.

So the "Big Book" IS the "Blue Book," right? Making everyone correct. Sorta. HaHa!

Best to you, Glen.....and to Mrs. Glen.

Also.

Great health 'n happiness to all my friends and neighbors here on AddictionSurvivors!

sam b
Sam Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2014, 10:14 PM   #12
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

Yes it is a rare case where we are all correct

I forgot about the used car blue book. I use it whenever I buy (After the fact dont know why just to see if I got ripped off lol)

My best to you and all here on AS

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2014, 10:43 PM   #13
drummerboy7
Junior Member
 
Posts: 13
Default

I here ya on that. But there is also a part in the back that says they are neither doctors or psychiatrists and it is not the fellowships place to prescribe or to tell a person not to consult a doctors care. Alot has changed since 1939 and I believe Bill W. would be ok with Suboxone. He battled depression for many years and was even in a government sponsored program to test LSD for depression! But yes ...there are still those Nazis that :won't even take an aspirin"! Well good for them I say. Doesn't mean we all have to adhere to there belief. My sponsor even says so.
drummerboy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #14
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

Some old timers (hey I guess I am one being sober since 1987) are in AA and they smoke and drink coffee like hard core addicts. They can be quite sarcastic and downright mean. Their lives in effect are miserable! I'd be wrong to say they are better off drunk because we all know active addiction is a special kind of hell however, they are far from being "reasonably happy" as the Big Book says.
These are often the "big book" thumpers who judge others because of the fact they use medication.
I'd not be too upset at them and their ilk judging me. I am sure early in sobriety I'd be upset but people usually change for the better over the years and not to sound prideful, I have had some positive growth in humility and tolerance. I no longer judge what a person does to get and stay sober as long as their lives are improving.
I know of no one who is not living a better life on suboxone compared to active addiction. If nothing else suboxone makes it possible to start changing because we are no longer dreading the horror of WD and for most anyway, we are not addled by the drug itself. (some do feel "clouded" or not quite "normal" on suboxone but I have not heard of people being "stoned" or "out of it" on bupe)

So as I have said, keep you sub use to yourself unless there is a valid reason to self disclose.

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to theswan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (02-21-2015), Thank You (11-16-2014)
Unread 11-16-2014, 03:02 PM   #15
drummerboy7
Junior Member
 
Posts: 13
Default

Thanks swan. I appreciate the wise advice. Its nice to hear an "old timer" with your point of view. I remember when I tried AA in the early 90's and got reprimanded by an old timer for mentioning marijuana and how it related to my drinking! AA seems to have evolved maybe? thx again
drummerboy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to drummerboy7 For This Useful Post:
Thank You (11-19-2014)
Unread 12-30-2014, 08:52 PM   #16
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

I hope AA has gotten better-well the people in AA afterall the program is quite inclusive in it's principles

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2015, 09:24 AM   #17
mminvi1
Junior Member
 
Posts: 6
Default Meetings

I also attend meetings to supplament my medical treatment. For me, it is critical to continue to work the 12 steps on a daily basis. Meetings are also a good way to get out of yourself and stay active. I don't think most people there have a problem with the medication. If they do, that's their progative. You have to do what is best for your recovery. If you have a problem at a particular meeting, I would just attend different ones until you find one that fits your personality. Good Luck
mminvi1 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to mminvi1 For This Useful Post:
Thank You (01-12-2015), Thank You (01-12-2015)
Unread 02-03-2015, 06:51 PM   #18
Dan458
Senior Member
 
Posts: 483
Default

Collectively, AA and NA doesn't have an opinion on medical assisted treatment. It's an outside issue. Of course individuals will have their opinions. I think its wise not to volunteer info about one's medical treatment.
Dan458 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2015, 10:20 AM   #19
kabby123
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Default

I am starting suboxone on Monday. I need it to help with my recovery. I do not plan to discuss this at my NA meetings to avoid judgements.Y
kabby123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2015, 01:14 PM   #20
kabby123
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Default

I am starting suboxone on Monday. I need it to help with my recovery. I do not plan to discuss this at my NA meetings to avoid judgements.Y
kabby123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-08-2015, 03:23 PM   #21
Eliza12
Senior Member
 
Posts: 676
Default

Hi kabby,

Good luck starting on Suboxone. I don't blame you for keeping it to yourself at meetings. It's between you and your doctor. Remember less is better when it comes to sub, so hopefully your doc won't start you at too high of a dose. Please let us know if you have questions or just need to talk.

Best,
Elizabeth
Eliza12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-18-2015, 02:46 AM   #22
kimloves
Member
 
Posts: 1
Default

This is quite common in typical AA meetings. People keep hush about meds they’re on all the time. It’s sad. I also go to aftercare group sessions organized , where I had rehab, and although they heavily stress on the importance of the 12 steps, they are open to medical treatments and meds. Wish AA was the same.

In some cases of dual diagnosis, addicts can’t do without narcotics like suboxone. It’s reasons like these that cause a number of people to disregard AA and the 12 steps .
kimloves is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2015, 08:51 AM   #23
MattC42286
Senior Member
 
Posts: 140
Default

I think if it is someone that matters like a sponsor or something you should but if not its nobodys business but yours. Just my 2 cents... Thanks! -Matt
MattC42286 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-04-2015, 02:09 AM   #24
theswan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,617
Default

To be fair to AA/NA they have a tradition of keeping outside issues out of its focus. This is a good thing because history has shown that groups that become too wide in scope lose their primary purpose. Anyone can chat after a meeting or to their sponsors about any topic but the meeting itself ought to remain clear on it's purpose-getting and staying sober.

I suppose it is well and good to "wish" it were different but when one tries to force one's will upon a fellowship, the fellowship does not suffer but that person may fall by the wayside with hurt feelings when all the fellowship wanted was to remain pure to its purpose.

AA has worked with some success since 1935 and will continue to work as long as it is guided by the traditions, world concepts of service and the latter's warranties of service.

Glen
theswan is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to theswan For This Useful Post:
Thank You (09-04-2015)
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2014 Addiction Survivors