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Unread 11-30-2009, 01:24 PM   #1
lily29
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Default Withdrawals or sickness? Anybody know?

Hi everyone,

Ever since I have been on Sub, (5 months) my quality of life has VASTLY improved, but there is a question that has been rattling around in my mind for awhile and I thought some of you may be able to answer it.

Sometimes I have days where I wake up, take my sub exactly as I usually do, but feel like I'm in mild withdrawal. Nothing like those "I wish I were dead" ones, but runny nose and eyes, body aches, cold sweats, slight fever. I guess what I'm asking is;

Is this some kind of withdrawal efffect or just a regular cold or flu? If it is regular illness, I'm ill FAR more often than a normal person, but rarely if ever VERY sick, like can't get out of bed sick. Has this happened to anyone else and what do you do about it?

Thanks in advance for always being there for me when I have questions. You guys are the best!
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Unread 11-30-2009, 03:02 PM   #2
ex-opiatelover
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hi lily!! i have been on sub to for 5 months!! i know exactly what u are saying!! ive noticed anxiety has started real bad for me! but back to u, im not sure if its withdrawls, because u been on sub long enough that u have definitely stabilized! i wonder if u have allergies? sorry if thats not spelled right! i said somthin to my sub dr about it, an he told me that he thought i might have allergies! but i dont know ! caus it seems awhole lot worse than normal! he also said to try an take a extra 1/2 of sub when it happened! i dont know how your dr prescribes your sub, but mine always gives me a few extra just in case somthin happens! but u probally want to talk to your dr before u start adding doses! i was just givin u my information i had got!! hopefully nancy will see this an can be awhole lot more helpful!! good luck!!!
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Unread 11-30-2009, 03:15 PM   #3
lily29
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Thanks for the quick response!

I don't think I have allergies, but I do have the nasal spray and the claritin just in case that's what it is, but it never seems to work very well. Definitely not on the achy feeling-that's what feels the most like withdrawal. That and the awful sweats!

It also doesn't help when I take extra sub, for me the "less is more" thing seems to work, although I probably wouldn't know, my doctor won't prescribe me more than 12mg a day.

Maybe my body is dysfunctional and won't ever work right again? That's scary.
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Unread 11-30-2009, 06:27 PM   #4
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Hi lily29, has this been happening the whole 5 months? How often?

I don't know if you've seen this, but it might help with absorption of the medication, just in case that's varying and causing some instability. From:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=21609

• Tips for taking Suboxone.
-No caffeine or nicotine for at least 30 minutes before taking your Suboxone – both may constrict the blood vessels that the medication is absorbed through.
-Right before taking it, rinse your mouth out with as warm water as possible – this may dilate the blood vessels for better absorption.

Thought I'd throw that out there in case it's helpful.

Nancy
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Unread 11-30-2009, 07:56 PM   #5
lily29
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Thank you Nancy!

I did noticed that it didn't seem to work as well when I smoked, and each time I quit it has been helpful, so there's probably something to that. I am on day 11 this time and have been feeling much better.

Also I've noticed that where before I could have a couple glasses of wine and feel fine the next day now it seems like I get the worst hangovers and they last for days, and they kind of put me in a mental fog and depression. It'd probably make me feel better to just not drink at all. Is there anything written about the effects of mixing alcohol and sub, if it's just a glass of wine or two?

There's my addiction again, trying to justify having a "glass of wine or two" when obviously I'd feel much better just not drinking at all! It feels so weird to not have any vices!
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Unread 11-30-2009, 08:30 PM   #6
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Hi Lily,

I have had that happen to me too. I first started sub last June....I started at 12 mgs/day then tapered to 10, then to 8. I have been on 8mg for the last 3 months or so. After I tapered to the 8 I did notice some days in the afternoon I would feel something that felt like mild w/d. A little chills, some stomach upset, really mild but noticeable. For me, I am thinking I did not stay on the right dose for long enough. If you have been reading any of my recent posts you know I slipped up last week. So obviously, for me, 8 was too low.

You may want to talk to your Dr, maybe even going up just 1 mg might help. Maybe your body processes chemicals really quickly (????) Im not a medical professional or anything...IDK. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone, I have experienced the same thing....I am now going to be on 16mgs for awhile. So it will be interesting to see if the same thing happens still. Ill let you know....and let me know if you figure it out.

Good Luck,

Fran
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Unread 11-30-2009, 08:36 PM   #7
lily29
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My doctor, while being very nice, is adamant about 2 things, he will NEVER go above 12mg/day, and he will never allow benzo's to be taken with sub. Both of which don't work for me, but I'm too scared to try and find a new doctor, what if I couldn't and then he wouldn't see me anymore?

I am in no way able to handle being off sub. But that did get me thinking...I wonder if they way I'm feeling has more to do with the tapering of the benzo's than the sub? I'm doing it quickly, too quickly in my opinion. Whenever I get that sick feeling I do always have heart palpitations and sweats. Maybe it's anxiety?

Ok enough rambling for me. Thank you guys
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Unread 11-30-2009, 09:07 PM   #8
NancyB
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Hi lily, you're not rambling!

It probably wouldn't hurt to see if there are other doctors available around you. You can ask them about both going over 12mg and the benzo taper. Your current doctor wouldn't know you're looking, and you could end up with someone who understands your situation better.

That could be from the benzos WDs. It's just such a shame you have to do this so quickly because that doctor doesn't understand nor want to understand.

Think about just taking a peek to see who's out there.

Nancy
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Unread 12-01-2009, 11:22 AM   #9
ex-opiatelover
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hi lily! i didnt know u was on benzos! yeah those feelins describe the benzo withdrawl! as nancy said u might be able to find a dr that understands u awhole lot more! as not all sub drs are oppossed to taking benzos while on sub! as many has said in here, if benzos are takin the right way with sub, it can work! an same here my dr will not go over 12 mgs! well he said he would if i was hooked on heroin! but he fEELS 12 is plent for a pill addict! so good luck!! EX--!
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Unread 12-01-2009, 12:58 PM   #10
lily29
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Thanks so much for all your responses!

I think I am going to try to find a new sub doctor. What I'm worried about is if I see a new doctor and he has the same policies as my old doctor, can he call my first sub doctor and tell him about the benzo's? Then I would have no doctor!

I think the problem is my entire life is in upheaval, I just moved, started a new job, am basically friendless because all my friends in AA won't talk to me unless I stop taking sub, and my mom, while great, just doesn't understand it very well. So I don't have any support system (besidess you guys, who are great!) and it's probably not the best time to do a quick taper off benzo's or not be able to have as much sub as I need.

Does anyone have experience with switching doctors? Good or bad?

p.s. Ex-does your doctor have you on a timeline as well? Like mine won't let me be on sub for more than 13 months.
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Unread 12-01-2009, 01:31 PM   #11
ex-opiatelover
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yep! the first time i went in there he said it will take 6 to 9 months! i thought it was wierd! because everybody is different! i thought, what if im better before then? "which im not", but i thought about it anyway!or what if it takes longer than that! i dont think drs should put u on a timeline like that! its almost like pressure! an god knows us addicts have enough pressure as it is!! but he told me at my last visit that he plans on cuttin me back in january! im scared in a way, caus i dont think im ready! so im gonna talk to him about it next visit, an see what i can do! EX--!
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Unread 12-03-2009, 07:41 PM   #12
lily29
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Hey everyone,

Just an update-

I started taking Lyrica for my joint pains, and taking that, my sub and anti-depressant seems to be working, as long as I am taking the valium. I don't really want to get off it, is that bad? I hate having anxiety, and those anti-depressants that are supposed to help never do. In fact I started taking xanax because of the severe withdrawals from Effexor.

Anyways, I haven't had any of the weird lyrica side effects yet but we'll see. I'm just getting nervous though, I hate having a time frame to taper. I am so not ready. If I had to do it now I know I'd relapse.

Just wanted to thank everyone!

-Lily
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Unread 12-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily29 View Post
Thanks so much for all your responses!

I think I am going to try to find a new sub doctor. What I'm worried about is if I see a new doctor and he has the same policies as my old doctor, can he call my first sub doctor and tell him about the benzo's? Then I would have no doctor!

I think the problem is my entire life is in upheaval, I just moved, started a new job, am basically friendless because all my friends in AA won't talk to me unless I stop taking sub, and my mom, while great, just doesn't understand it very well. So I don't have any support system (besidess you guys, who are great!) and it's probably not the best time to do a quick taper off benzo's or not be able to have as much sub as I need.

Does anyone have experience with switching doctors? Good or bad?

p.s. Ex-does your doctor have you on a timeline as well? Like mine won't let me be on sub for more than 13 months.
Why won't your friends in AA talk to you unless you stop taking subs. I was thinking about going to an NA meeting. Is it not a good idea to go to NA when you are on subs?
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Unread 12-04-2009, 12:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily29 View Post
Thank you Nancy!

I did noticed that it didn't seem to work as well when I smoked, and each time I quit it has been helpful, so there's probably something to that. I am on day 11 this time and have been feeling much better.

Also I've noticed that where before I could have a couple glasses of wine and feel fine the next day now it seems like I get the worst hangovers and they last for days, and they kind of put me in a mental fog and depression. It'd probably make me feel better to just not drink at all. Is there anything written about the effects of mixing alcohol and sub, if it's just a glass of wine or two?

There's my addiction again, trying to justify having a "glass of wine or two" when obviously I'd feel much better just not drinking at all! It feels so weird to not have any vices!
I know you are not supposed to drink much on subs. My friend's doctor said not to drink at all. My doctor said a couple drinks onece in a while wouldn't be a big deal for me. I do know what you mean. There have been times where I just had 2 or 3 beers and I wake up feeling really crapy like I drank 12. And I feel depressed too. Thats why I try not to not to drink hardly ever. I feel I shouldn't be doing anything to alter my state of mind, especially if I'm having a bad day. Then I feel even worse about myself the next day.
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Unread 12-04-2009, 12:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily29 View Post
My doctor, while being very nice, is adamant about 2 things, he will NEVER go above 12mg/day, and he will never allow benzo's to be taken with sub. Both of which don't work for me, but I'm too scared to try and find a new doctor, what if I couldn't and then he wouldn't see me anymore?

I am in no way able to handle being off sub. But that did get me thinking...I wonder if they way I'm feeling has more to do with the tapering of the benzo's than the sub? I'm doing it quickly, too quickly in my opinion. Whenever I geto that sick feeling I do always have heart palpitations and sweats. Maybe it's anxiety?

Ok enough rambling for me. Thank you guys
I think you might be right. You might not be feeling good because of tapering off the benzo's too quick. Also I know at least with me, Sometimes if I'm feeling strong feelings of being stressed, depressed, or a lot of anxiety I've noticed that I don't feel good. Like I don't sleep good, stomach aches, back and body aches, feeling drained of energy. So sometimes those feelings can cause stuff like that for me.
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Unread 12-04-2009, 04:03 PM   #16
lily29
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Why won't your friends in AA talk to you unless you stop taking subs. I was thinking about going to an NA meeting. Is it not a good idea to go to NA when you are on subs?
I don't want to generalize, but the creed in the AA and NA programs that I have gone to have been, abolutely no substances, even non-mind-altering ones. So my friends said, when you're ready to get off "the drugs" call us. I think it's ridiculous, and the behavior almost reminds me of a cult. They don't have any, (IMO) legitimate reason for this, it's "just the way it is".

So I'm lonely, but physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually I'm in a better place then I've ever been. I don't have the luxury to spend 2 months in bed going through withdrawals and then trying to slowly get my strength back. This has made it so I can stop the destructive behavior of using while still maintaining a "normal" life.

And the people around me, like my co-workers, definitely notice. I get "you look so much better/happier/healthier" everyday. I thought no one knew when I was using-they may not have known exactly what it was, but they knew I didnt have my shit together and I was a mess!!

I know I say this all the time, but having you guys here makes such a big difference in my life. You are the best. Really
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Unread 12-04-2009, 04:10 PM   #17
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The only way anyone in NA/AA would know of the medications you are on is if you chose to tell them. The reality is that it is none of their business, and the ones who might act as though it is are way out of line. You might reminds these chumps that (as is stated in the Big Book), "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking (using)".

Most alcoholics have abused one or more drugs (as if alcohol is somehow "different") and many are quick to go off on new members who talk about their use. One of the techniques to success in the program is learning how to take what you need from the program while ignoring that which is irrelevant. I have experienced the same kind of sermonizing as you, so I know it can make you uncomfortable and left out. It is important to stick to your guns, learn your lesson, and carry on!
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Unread 12-04-2009, 04:55 PM   #18
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You're right, but I never shared my sub treatment in meetings, I figured it was none of their business!

It was my best friends that I told, the 6 people who knew me inside and out, who I trusted with everything, whom I spent practically every day with, holidays with, weekends away with, you get the picture.

Now that I'm shunned, I can't even go to the meetings to get anything out of them, thankfully I did just move and maybe can find some where I don't know anyone. And I have started drinking again, but it doesn't go well witht he sub, which is definitely a good thing!
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Unread 12-04-2009, 07:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily29 View Post
I don't want to generalize, but the creed in the AA and NA programs that I have gone to have been, abolutely no substances, even non-mind-altering ones. So my friends said, when you're ready to get off "the drugs" call us. I think it's ridiculous, and the behavior almost reminds me of a cult. They don't have any, (IMO) legitimate reason for this, it's "just the way it is".

So I'm lonely, but physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually I'm in a better place then I've ever been. I don't have the luxury to spend 2 months in bed going through withdrawals and then trying to slowly get my strength back. This has made it so I can stop the destructive behavior of using while still maintaining a "normal" life.

And the people around me, like my co-workers, definitely notice. I get "you look so much better/happier/healthier" everyday. I thought no one knew when I was using-they may not have known exactly what it was, but they knew I didnt have my shit together and I was a mess!!

I know I say this all the time, but having you guys here makes such a big difference in my life. You are the best. Really
Thats why I have been kind of hesitant on going to a NA meeting. I want to be honest if I do go and I think people will get down on me about being on subs. I have been very open minded about trying new things, but from what I've heard and read about it, some of it reminds me of being a cult atmosphere in a way and I have a hard time with some of the twelve step stuff. Some of it I don't really connect to. My Dad goes to Ga for gambling and my brother goes to AA for alcohol. It has really helped them a lot. They have suggested I try NA out but I feel my situation is a little diffeferent from there since I'm on subs. But I guess I can't say too much about it since I've never been. I do relate to you about taking the time out of your life to go through withdrawals and the time it takes to get your strength back. I have done it numerous times in the ten years that I've been an adict. It is so hard to go to work, deal with your everyday responsibilities, and live your life while you are going through withdrawals! On top of that everytime you get clean than relapse and try to get clean again, it gets harder and harder. At least for me. I also have felt a litlle lonely since I've gotten clean and moved. I cut a lot of people out of my life, which was good and I needed to. But I am also feeling physically, mentally, and emotionally so much better! And I still do have some good friends and a great family.
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Unread 12-04-2009, 09:44 PM   #20
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The thing about AA or NA is that the people get what you're going through, and it depends on the person. Some people just go to meetings, some think that if you don't work the steps you're an untreated addict/alcoholic. I actually had a sponsor, did the steps, all that. Made some wonderful friends and they all understood. It was wonderful. I made the decision to tell them and that was either a huge mistake or the smartest thing I've ever done, I haven't decided yet.

You can get alot out of the 12 step programs, just work them your way. You make friends that stay away from the destructive patterns you are used to, and you don't have to explain yourself all the time.

It's just up to you ultimately. I'm so lonley for my friends...but I refuse to go off this just to please them. I've got my life back finally.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 10:43 AM   #21
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Sounds like you got a hard lesson on why anonymity is so important. Your "friends" had no business revealing anything about you without your permission. That is their problem, not something you caused. No one can kick you out of a meeting. If you are too uncomfortable to confront them and continue that meeting, go elsewhere.

I have never cared for NA, but a lot of folks love it. AA was the first of the 12-step programs and is what I have always preferred. The other programs use the same steps and some folks simply attend whatever is handy. You must learn to take what you need from the programs and to not get hung up in someone else's garbage. The problems are caused by individuals, not the program. Most of us didn't go willingly and were eager for any reason to say "its not for me". This happens to all of us and is something that must be overcome. In the beginning, most of us simply have to force ourselves to go....eventually we'll get to where we enjoy it!
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Unread 12-05-2009, 02:58 PM   #22
lily29
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I didn't like N/A either, it was a little too lax-one meeting that I went to said if you have to use go use in the parking lot. I was like WHAT? AA can be a little narrow minded, but it often depends on the individual.

I wish there was a sub support group, that would be the perfect balance!
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Unread 12-05-2009, 03:38 PM   #23
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Most groups seem to have a personality, and that changes over time. Therefore, most general statements like "AA is more narrow-minded" are false.The only way to find a group that suits is to try a lot of meetings over time.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 11:28 PM   #24
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wouldn"t it be great if we all lived within driving distance of each other... that would be some live support group..

just me dreaming..

sarah jane
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Unread 12-06-2009, 12:56 AM   #25
lily29
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Quote:
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Most groups seem to have a personality, and that changes over time. Therefore, most general statements like "AA is more narrow-minded" are false.The only way to find a group that suits is to try a lot of meetings over time.
Did you read the whole post?

First I said, "I don't want to generalize, but the creed in the AA and NA programs that I have gone to have been, absolutely no substances, even non-mind-altering ones."

And then I said, "AA can be a little narrow minded, but it tends to depend on the individual."

I was speaking of my individual experiences. Please read the whole post before you comment.

Thank you.
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Unread 12-06-2009, 06:21 PM   #26
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Toms,

I hope I didn't sound bitchy up there. I just hate generalization and I try not to do it so I get a little sensitive when I feel like somebody is accusing me of it. Hope there are no bad feelings!

-Lily
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Unread 12-07-2009, 10:30 AM   #27
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Not at all, but I appreciate your comment. Usually I'll read a post and, while I try to address a point within, most that comes out is stream-of-consciousness. While its nice that things we say can sometimes be helpful to others, what is ultimately most important is taking care of ourselves. If everyone agreed with us and told us what we wanted to hear, what good would that be?
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