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Unread 12-20-2009, 07:09 PM   #1
k3pain
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Unhappy anesthesia didnt work

i recently had a gastroscopy, a tube/camera shoved down your throat to look into your stomach, and was given fentanyl/iv to put me to sleep. well that didnt work, he kept giving me more and nothing happened, i just laid there, finally he said ive given you enough to knock out 3 people and can't give you anymore, so we will have to go ahead and you shouldn't feel anything. WRONG I felt everything, i gagged, threw up into the tube/camera and then had to swallow it, what didnt come out my nose. It was terrible, painful and torture. Ive had this done before several times, but not on suboxone. I specifically told the doctor and the surgery center my meds and told them my concern and they said there would be no problem. I assumed they were going to gas me, when he told me that he couldnt give me anymore i asked for the mask and then he told me they iv 250 mgs of fentanyl through my iv, then i knew i was screwed. i felt like crap for two days. now im afraid to go through another surgery, this was minor, what happens if i have major surgery, in a accident, will i wake up in the middle. Should i have warned the doctor specifically. What have others done before surgery, i hate to taper off and start again on morphine for a couple days before and after, it would be like starting all over again.
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Unread 12-20-2009, 08:17 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi k3pain, sorry to hear of that horrible experience. If you need something else done, it's always best to have your Suboxone doctor speak with the surgeon and anesthesiologist so they can work on a plan on what will work best.

This link has a bunch of information on managing pain with surgery or in an emergency:
http://www.naabt.org/emergency

The Suboxone won't block anesthesia. In your case it was blocking the fentanyl.

Many people have either tapered down before surgery, were switch to full agonists a week before surgery, or just have foregone any full agonist and used other methods to manage pain.

Hope you're feeling better.

Nancy
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Unread 12-21-2009, 10:36 AM   #3
toms
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I have had anesthesia with no problems while on suboxone, but it requires adjustment. I had a raft of doctors who simply gave opiates on top of suboxone until my bupe doc intervened. Even then, the pre-op meds (fentanyl and versed) didn't have much effect and I went into the OR alert.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 10:48 AM   #4
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Hello, Procedures are in place for suboxone patients who will be undergoing surgical procedures. I have attached a link that explains everything and also provides for print outs to carry/and-or/give to your drs. It is up to you, the patient, to make sure all drs are aware that you are taking suboxone and to also make sure the drs know how to proceed and if they do not then give them the information so they can get the needed information. There is no reason to suffer through procedures just because you are on suboxone. But, you have to let them know ahead of time.

Nan
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=51

Last edited by nan; 12-21-2009 at 10:52 AM..
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Unread 12-21-2009, 01:01 PM   #5
toms
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Still, we fight an uphill battle with some doctors' egos. I have encountered opposing reactions to providing info like that contained in the link. Good doctors (thankfully my internist is like this) are happy to see this kind of info and adjust accordingly. On the other hand, some doctors are of the know-it-all breed and won't tolerate someone who dares to question their actions.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 02:54 PM   #6
murphyluvnlife
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That sucks. I am scared this will happen to me in a few weeks when I have invasive eye surgery. I will be under sedation like you. I guess I will just stop my sub before surgery. I know everyone one talks about 37 hr halflife. I must be diff because about 34 hrs after my last dose I satrt to feel sighns of WD creeping in. I just dont wanna exp any WD. I wander if my surgeon would switch me to a full agonist the week bfore?
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Unread 12-21-2009, 03:48 PM   #7
NancyB
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Hi murphyluvnlife, first of all, does your surgeon know about the Suboxone? Has s/he talked with your Suboxone doctor? That would be the best thing to do.

As far as the 37-hour halflife, that is an average, and as with all averages, there are higher and lower ends that make up that average.

But please, think about having your surgeon, anesthesiologist and Suboxone doctor talk with each so they're all on the same page.

Nancy
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Unread 12-21-2009, 05:16 PM   #8
toms
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I'll second that! You have the luxury of knowing in advance what is coming. Its obviously something you are concerned about, so why not be proactive? Tell your suboxone doc what is coming and follow their directions. They can tell you what to do, and perhaps consult with the surgeon. I suspect the peace of mind you'll gain will be well worth the effort. Facing surgery, anesthesia, and possibly pain control should not cause us to live in fear, especially when options are available.
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Unread 12-23-2009, 12:46 PM   #9
suboxfreedom
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K3 I'm really sorry you had to experience this

Medical emergencies and accidents are the things I hate most about subs.

I am prone to kidney stones and was on methadone for many years and never had a problem. Now that I'm in my 50's and living alone... this could be a big problem. I'm aware of the pre-planning and id's but don't like to have to use these.

At least with methadone, they can give you narcotic analgesics in an emergency with no fear of going into precipitated withdrawls.

I've asked my Dr to give me subtex but he refuses because I used needles 25+ yrs ago. Unless I want to Dr shop and PAY [I get free meds from VA] I'm stuck with Subs. I doubt that subtext would be the answer anyway since Bupe itself has antagonist properties.

I know one thing for certain... Suboxone is one of the most politically developed and dispensed drug ever given to Americans. Yes it is highly theraputic and addicts recover with it... but we are also extremely controlled by our Drs and govt while on Subs!

Last edited by suboxfreedom; 12-23-2009 at 12:52 PM.. Reason: forgot something
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Unread 12-23-2009, 03:52 PM   #10
toms
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You're right....but at least it is a step in the right direction! What I hope is that the regulation continue to relax, and that ORT gains acceptance.
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Unread 01-04-2010, 07:31 AM   #11
arnella75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3pain View Post
i recently had a gastroscopy, a tube/camera shoved down your throat to look into your stomach, and was given fentanyl/iv to put me to sleep. well that didnt work, he kept giving me more and nothing happened, i just laid there, finally he said ive given you enough to knock out 3 people and can't give you anymore, so we will have to go ahead and you shouldn't feel anything. WRONG I felt everything, i gagged, threw up into the tube/camera and then had to swallow it, what didnt come out my nose. It was terrible, painful and torture. Ive had this done before several times, but not on suboxone. I specifically told the doctor and the surgery center my meds and told them my concern and they said there would be no problem. I assumed they were going to gas me, when he told me that he couldnt give me anymore i asked for the mask and then he told me they iv 250 mgs of fentanyl through my iv, then i knew i was screwed. i felt like crap for two days. now im afraid to go through another surgery, this was minor, what happens if i have major



surgery, in a accident, will i wake up in the middle. Should i have warned

the doctor specifically. What have others done before surgery, i hate to
taper off and start again on morphine for a couple days before and after, it
would be like starting all over again.
It is very sad that any human should have been treated un human.no one should have to go through surgery like that.I think in todays society your labeled a drug head as soon as you tell them your own suboxone,I myself have found that that soon as you let a doc know it get treated indifferently,by most docs not all.I unfortantely was lucky enough to find a doc that was educated.I remember when I had my gall bladder surgery,I went through the same or deal I had a surgeon who did me wrong.He knew I was own it but didnt care.the pain was unbearable.
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Unread 01-08-2010, 11:53 PM   #12
lala
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Oh my gosh, that is terrible! I am definitely going to be checking out that link and printing some info to bring with me to the hospital when I have my baby! I have delivered normally twice before, but I can't imagine needing a c-section and feeling the pain of that... <shuddering> So sorry this happened to you guys!
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Unread 01-09-2010, 10:44 AM   #13
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I know one thing for certain... Suboxone is one of the most politically developed and dispensed drug ever given to Americans. Yes it is highly theraputic and addicts recover with it... but we are also extremely controlled by our Drs and govt while on Subs! suboxfreedom
Yea, and quite a majority of doctor's missed "the disease of addiction 101" It always gets them when you ask them if they missed that class. This majority still thinks that addiction is a choice. When I had that procedure done, I was told I had to lay still for hours, but the anesthesia did not work, I was called a "junkie"...and walked out right after the tubes were taken out, as I was wide awake. Problem here is that doctors must know what meds we are taking, bigger problem is finding doctors that actually are schooled in this disease. I am extremely lucky to have found doctors that do their homework.
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Unread 06-27-2010, 08:53 PM   #14
ironman
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Not to split hairs here and this is an old thread and all but maybe the topic will be read by folks newer to this site. First, you called the Fentanyl/versed the 'anesthesia'. I haven't had surgery in almost 40 years and Fentanyl/Versed I believe are newer drugs. They used to give 'Demerol' 'pre-op' and 'Sodium Pentathol' was the actual anesthesia (that knocks you out). A guess here but after reading up on Fentanyl and Versed it seems that these would be considered the new pre op meds (as was Demerol years ago). They serve as a hypnotic cocktail, no ? Conscious sedation ? The thing being that many are worried about emergency surgery and the anesthetic not working. A scary thought to be sure (one I always struggle to keep submerged way back in my brain). Anyhow,what you had was a recommended/scheduled 'procedure' not 'emergency surgery' correct ? For the procedure to be done correctly they needed you to be as conscious as possible, no ? This is way different than most surgeries done after an accident or for acute appendicitis for example. Of course the surgeon/anesthesiologist needs to be on board with your Sub Tx but I would think they would still knock you out the old fashioned way for any major surgery.
*Side note: I had a friend who was on methadone back in the late 70's. He had emergency gall bladder removal (the old fashioned way) and he says he was awake through the entire operation but could not move to signal that he wasn't 'out'. I always wondered if he didn't 'dream' the whole thing while in the recovery room !
Anyhow, Fentanyl is a synthetic opiate from what I've gathered so the Sub would create difficulties. The Veresed a 'hypnotic' - the combination would serve to keep you relaxed, calm and make the time go by as if the entire procedure only seemed to you to last but a moment - the Fentanyl would also serve to control pain as you were having a difficult procedure done. They needed you to be 'out' but not 'out' which is quite different than the la-la land you're sent to when having serious major surgery. I'm guessing at all this so anyone that knows for sure please chime in and tell me if I'm wrong. I just want people new to Sub Tx not to get freaked out thinking they'll be awake through real surgery/slicing/dicing (as opposed to a 'procedure').
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