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Unread 11-11-2009, 10:35 AM   #1
lizzy1961
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Default horrible anxious feeling

Good morning everyone,
I have been on sub for a few weeks now and am still having problems getting used to it. I get this really tingly horrible anxious feeling down the back of my neck and across my shoulders about half an hour after it melts. I don't know if I am not taking enough, or too much but it really feels awful. It makes me really edgy like I just drank 20 cups of coffee. I am currently taking 8 mg. I would take more if i thought that would help but I don't want to make it worse, or maybe aI am taking too much.

If there is anyone else out there that feels like this please let me know because I can't work like this, I feel erally horrible and just want to quit this whole thing, but I know where that will lead to.

thanks,
Lizzy
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Unread 11-11-2009, 12:36 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Lizzy, sorry you're having such a hard time.
At the 8mg are you having any cravings or withdrawals?
How long does this edginess last?

Nancy
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Unread 11-11-2009, 12:52 PM   #3
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Hi Lizzy, Well, good to hear from you, sorry for the difficulties you are having! The Here-to-Help number does not work in Canada. However, they gave me a Canadian toll-free number to call regarding questions etc on suboxone. It is 1-800-463-5442. . So why not give that number a call and find out what support you can get through them. It sounds like it is a like a here to help program for Canadians. The number won't work for me here in the States so I cannot tell you anything about it but why not give them a call and find out what they can offer.

Don't know if you ever experienced anxiety/edginess previously but sometimes those things have been covered up during the medication misuse time and surface when minds are cleared up with suboxone. Perhaps talk to your dr about adding a medication for these symptoms-at least speak to the dr about your concerns and see what he suggests. The important thing is you are seeking answers. Please call that phone number and see if they can give you more information regarding your symptoms. Quitting suboxone should not even be in your vocabulary right now as I really believe it is not the suboxone that is causing these symptoms-I understand you are struggling because of many things right now, and I know I sound like a broken record but you must focus on beating this mental thing and finding answers other than quitting suboxone and going back to the old way. Are there any good parts of your day where you are feeling ok? I will be curious as to what you find out from that toll free number. I hope it is good stuff!

Nan
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Unread 11-11-2009, 03:55 PM   #4
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Hey Lizzy. I noticed the same thing. It improved a lot when I started taking less. I started on a high dose like yourself because at the time I had been taking a high amount of oxy a day. Similar to your daily use if I recall correctly. I found that once I had been on sub for a few weeks,taking less made me feel better. It can be hard to really grasp the whole less is more when it comes to this medicine, as it is the exact opposite of what we are use to. You may feel better as well by lowering your dose a little. I know it's suggested to take it once a day, but I found that splitting my dose into two had very positive results. Anyhow, glad to see your looking for answers, you've come a long way IMO and you should be proud.
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Unread 11-11-2009, 10:52 PM   #5
theswan
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Hi

I did not get anxiety for the first 9 months at a high dose of 16mg but as time went on I began to get it. Now many other factors can be at work like the aforementioned "covered up anxiety coming to the fore" or a number of other guess;s.

All I know is that when i got down to under 2mg the anxiety abated. So do not rush but maybe less will be more!

God bless

Glen
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Unread 11-12-2009, 01:58 PM   #6
lizzy1961
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hi everyone,
thanks for the advice, I really don't know what is going on but it is getting worse. I tried taking 4 mg but felt the same way, and really don't think I should be that low yet. I"m still having huge cravings and want to use so badly, i honestly don't know what is wrong with me. Why would I want to do something that has only caused me pain and been so horrible? Yet, I still do.

Nan, I called that number and so far all I got was a message saying to leave a detailed mesaage and someone would get back to me in 24 hours. That kind of ticked me off, but then again everything does right now. I have never felt so negative. I just don't get it. I keep reading about all these people taking sub and it seems to be working for them, but now for me. I actually feel okay before I take it, and then about half an hour to an hour after I take it, I get this horrible creepy, tingly feeling down my back, and feel so anxious I want to scream. I have never had a problem like this before.

Anyway, I feel really badly being so negative on here, and that is why I am not posting very much. I would hate for someone to read my post and be hesitant about taking sub for that reason. I know it works really well for so many people, but .....?????

Lizzy
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Unread 11-12-2009, 02:19 PM   #7
nan
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Hey lizzy! I am sorry that the number didn't work, at least that it was not answered by a human. That is why I don't like to post a number without trying it first and finding out how it works, etc. because getting a message like that is not useful to anybody! Sorry, but it doesn't work in the USA so thanks for trying. Did you leave a message at all?

I sure don't know the answers for you but I do know you should be taking more than 4 mg if you are getting huge cravings and want to use. I am not really sure that you have ever really stabilized on one dose, have you? I know you say your dr doesn't know anything about sub but have you talked to him about your feelings of anxiety?

If you have felt crappy at all dose levels and have kept changing maybe you could at least try taking 16mg and staying at that for a week. See if it takes care of your cravings. If it makes you too sleepy try taking it at night just before you go to sleep. Perhaps that would help the anxiety thing you feel right after taking it?

It is ok to feel negative as you are getting this worked out. I am just sorry that it seems to be taking awhile for you. Get rid of the cravings and then hopefully you will not relapse. You can do anything as long as you stay away from the bad stuff-really you can. Keep in touch.

Nan
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Unread 11-12-2009, 02:40 PM   #8
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Hi Lizzy, taking 4mg for one day isn't going to make much of a difference because of the halflife of Suboxone. Most people don't a notice a difference for a couple/three days.
But if you're having cravings then you shouldn't be reducing your dose anyways.

As Nan also wondered, have you stabilized yet? Meaning have you taken the same dose every day for more than 7 days in a row? Going up and down on a dose can give a patient the ups and downs as with their former drug of choice.

Are you going to therapy - I think you mentioned it once? You probably are experiencing all your emotions full on because you no longer have anything to deaden them. You're going through a lot right now and perhaps the fact that you can't self-medicate is making things even more accentuated.

If you're not going to therapy, find a therapist and go. You need more help than just taking Suboxone. You need to find different ways to deal with why you want to self-medicate. Besides learning that to do that, you're also on your own now. So that, in itself, would be a reason to get into therapy.

Please keep posting. It doesn't matter if it's negative. Life is full of negatives and positives, and to suppress the negatives is only a recipe for disaster.

Nancy
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Unread 11-13-2009, 01:01 PM   #9
lizzy1961
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Hi everyone,
thanks so much for responding. Today, honestly I feel worse than ever. I am still seeing my therapist, saw her last night after work. I told her how badly I was feeling, but she has had no other experience with suboxone. Actually her advice to me was to get off it, that it doesn't seem to be helping me, so I'm not ever going to complain to her about sub again, sure don't want that getting back to my doctor. I do have a doctor's appointment on Monday morning, but that is just to get another script. I really doubt he has taken the time to read any of the stuff I printed out for him. So, other than you guys, I am pretty much on my own.

I have no idea why I feel so awful, actually only felt good for a couple of days. I do not want to go off sub, because I know exactly where that will lead Maybe I need to take more???? Ugh!! I just don't want to feel worse. Every day i wake up and feel okay, not horrible, take my sub and within an hour get that horrible feeling. The last couple of days I've been taking some oxazepam and that helps a little but I certainly don't want to start taking that every day.

So, basically I am in the same place, praying that it will get better, and willing to do anything to help. More sub?? less sub??? but at the same time as Nancy has said should stabilize on a dose so trying to stick to 8 mg every day.

thanks again to everyone, I"m not going to give up on this,

Lizzy
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Unread 11-13-2009, 06:11 PM   #10
pitbull
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Perhaps the reasonable thing to do here, instead of playing with your dose and experiencing such extreme side effects, would be to locate a physician that is certified and experienced in the administration of Suboxone. I'm certain some of the senior members have the link to where one can be instantly located by zipcode.

I'm certain that others on this site have the best intentions when recommending dosage adjustments, ect. This, however, falls SOLELY in the realm of a licensed doctor...not even a therapist, nurse, or couselor. It is certainly beyond the scope of an internet forum and its contributors--no matter how knowledgeble and well-meaning they may be. Please don't jeapordize your life on some anonymous post. Find a good doctor immediately.
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Unread 11-13-2009, 07:27 PM   #11
NancyB
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Hi pitbull, unfortunately Lizzy is in Canada and her doctor doesn't know that much about Suboxone and hasn't read any of the literature that she has brought to him.

I don't think she has any option for another doctor either, which is a shame. She absolutely could benefit from a knowledgeable doctor, especially at this point with the troubles she is having.

And, from what she said about her therapist just telling her to stop the Suboxone, it appears as if she's getting no support there either, unfortunately.

One thing is for certain though, a patient must stabilize on one dose before even a doctor can begin to try to find out if it is the Suboxone or something else that is causing her anxiety.

You're absolutely correct, no one should rely on the internet for medical advice. That's why we have as part of the disclaimer: "NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist."

Thank you for reminding people of that very important advice. : )

Nancy
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Unread 11-13-2009, 11:43 PM   #12
OhioMike
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Lizzy, in regard to anxiety, though many will disagree with me on this, I feel that we can experience PAWS in the sense that post symptoms begin to take place, even while on Suboxone.

I went through this. Shortly after beginning treatment I began to have random anxiety attacks, very harsh ones. Prior to this I didn't know what anxiety was.

My doctors tried treating it with more Sub, but, that would not help and not a surprise there.

So they treated it as a separate issue and I have been fine since, taking Cymbalta for it.

Please consider discussing with your doctor that this may be a byproduct of the disease and might require being addressed as it's own issue.

Mike
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Unread 11-14-2009, 11:16 AM   #13
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Thanks Omike. I knew I wasn't the only one. PAWS can affect people taking sub, I wish more Drs were aware of this an how to treat it.
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Unread 11-16-2009, 12:11 PM   #14
lizzy1961
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Good morning everyone,
thnks again for the advice. i saw my doctor this morning and he said that if oxazepam helps when I take it, that is okay. At this point I am really hesitant to add any other drug to the mix. He wants me to add 2 mg just in case I am not taking enough and see if that helps. If after an hour or two, I am still feeling so badly I can take 1 15 mg oxazepam. He has been prescribing me oxazepam for years and I have taken it off an on, I've never had a problem with it. I didn't even know about the difficulties with benzos until I got on these forums and ever since I've been really careful that I only take them occaisionally. I really hope that I don't need them every day but we will see.

i do feel a little better better today than I have been. I had a really quiet restful weekend and even managed an good long talk with my husband so i think that helped.

thanks again to everyone. I"m looking forward to getting stable so I can start enjoying life again. I had a few glimpses of that this last weekend that I actually caught myself laughing and it has been a very long time since that happened.

Lizzy
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Unread 11-16-2009, 10:29 PM   #15
bobbyxx
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is it at ALL possible that you are having an allergic reaction to the nalaxone in the suboxone?

just a thought...


maybe have your Dr. switch you over to Subutex for a little while and see if that helps?


I've heard stories of some people having a bad reaction to the nalaxone, which would make sense, that later on or before you take it you feel fine. The nalaxone goes away and the sub stays in your system..


Just a theory..


Good Luck and take care!

BBX
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Unread 11-17-2009, 10:08 AM   #16
lizzy1961
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hi bobby,
thanks for the suggestion but we do not have subutex at all in canada. i had my doctors appointment yesterday but didn't want to complain about it too much or he would have taken me off it.
i feel much better today, and i have not taken any oxazepam so that is good. i did increase my dose by 2 mg so am now taking 10 mg so we will see if that makes a difference, too.

thanks for all of your help.
Lizzy
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Unread 11-17-2009, 10:35 AM   #17
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Hi Lizzy, glad you're feeling better today. Most people when they're hypersensitive to the naloxone generally have swelling of the joints, rashes, hives or other things like that. So, it's probably unlikely that the depression/anxiety is stemming from the naloxone.

Since you're increasing your dose, please try to stay with that same dose for a week. Then you'll best be able to tell if it's helping or not. Also remember that Suboxone is only indicated to alleviate withdrawals and cravings at the right dose. Nothing more, and nothing less. You might benefit from speaking with your doctor or therapist about starting an anti-depressant to see if that helps you.

Just remember, you're going through alot of changes right now that can be depressing. You're no longer self-medicating to dull your emotions, especially now when you and your husband are separated. I think you should keep going to your therapist. If you feel she's not helping, then find a new one. Also think about journaling. Sometimes just writing things down helps so much.

I hope that the increase helps, since you were having cravings, and I hope that you can start laughing again!

Nancy
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Unread 11-17-2009, 09:51 PM   #18
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Hey Lizzy,
I've been following your thread, glad you sound to be doing better. I want to share with you that when I went on Suboxone I had really weird, hard to describe anxiety. I could not tell if I was taking too much, too little or what the heck was going on. When I went in for the 2week follow up with the Sub Dr. she thought I might be manic b/c I was in bad shape still, having racing thoughts, sweating, falling all over myself when talking etc.. But I've never been manic, so again wtheck?

The best thing I did was that I kept careful records of how much and what time I was taking the Suboxone. I could look it over and analize what was going on. My Dr. also did not have a problem with me taking klonopin(a benzo like oxazepam) I had been on it at a regular dose for years under my neurologist , never abused it and never knew it was all that abusable til' reading online.
For me, it ended up that I was taking too low a dose of Suboxone, first week was around 9mgs and eventually went up to a total of 24mgs daily. It became clear from my daily records, that I felt better, less anxiety when I took more sub and that I was underdosing. I'm not saying that is the case for you, that's just how it ended up being for me. I could really tell after a few weeks b/c I would get rolling waves of anxiety, and a similiar feeling to withdrawal a couple hours after taking the Sub, that would go away if I took more. So obviously my problem was being on too low. But at the time I was very scared that the Suboxone was causing the anxiety and that taking more would make it worse. It was a relief to get it figured out. So you know I've since tapered off the Suboxone.

Some people seem to have a harder time getting evened out. It seems to take a longer time to get adjusted. I also had the problem that if I took it all at once it wore of and I had withdrawals so for some reason it worked much better when I split it up 3 times, then 2 times daily. I have no idea why, but that is how it always felt for me.

It sounds like you are getting it figured out. I'm happy you are better and had a relaxing weekend.

Take Care
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Unread 11-19-2009, 04:42 PM   #19
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It is refreshing to hear of suboxone patients who are able to get their anxiety treated. Some of us have suffered at the hands of so-called "addiction specialists" who absolutely refuse to even consider any controlled substance no matter what you experience.

My downfall from methadone was a direct result of this kind of crap. After a death in the family combined with a couple other extreme difficulties, my anxiety skyrocketed and I experienced terrible insomnia. The standard clinic line was "take benadryl and let us know if it doesn't help". This did not work and I was left twisting in the wind and eventually self-prescribed a benzo which caused a positive drug screen, etc.

After going to suboxone, I have a doc who refuses to consider alternatives, pushed Seroquel, and forced me to jump through hoops for nothing. Thankfully, my internist prescribed ambien which is inexpensive and effective.
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Unread 11-26-2009, 03:06 PM   #20
lizzy1961
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hey nan,
thanks so much for checking on me. i come on here and read every day but i still don't post very often. i have to be very careful in my classroom. one day i left this on when i went out fro lunch duty and another teacher saw it. i told her i had no idea how it got on my screen but i don't think she believed me.

anyway, i'm feeling okay, a little better every day. still trying to sort through the mess i made, it's going to take a long time to "fix" things. some things will never be the same. i still have problems going out and tend to isolate myself, but i try to at least go one place after work, even if it is just to the mall christmas shopping, or to my therapist.

i have been an addict for a very long time and i honestly have no idea what i even like to do. i gave up so many things. i used to play guitar and piano, decorate all my friends houses, paint and I used to love to cook and loved to have company come over so i could try new things. i tired to do a few things and all it did was make me really upset, so ,i don't know, will take a while i guess.

so, thanks again. hope you are enjoying your holiday. today is just another work day, whcih is good with me, holidays are way too stressful right now. I'm already stressing about christmas and it's a month away. lol

Lizzy
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Unread 12-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #21
follydad
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I had that anxiety, especially at higher doses and immediately following a melt. It was almost as if it overrode my effexor and my anxiety disorder reared its head. I countered it with a tiny bit of xanax.
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