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Unread 09-14-2008, 12:35 PM   #1
theswan
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Default Libido annd lower dose?

Hello

I have been on 16mg taken in 4mg doses every 4-6 hours approx.
My libido is close to nothing but has been this way for over a year. While on pure agonist opioids, I accepted this as a side effect. My hope was that the suboxone would be more forgiving in that area.

Sadly the answer is no.

My question is "Will a reduction help?" I must add that I plan to stay on Suboxone for quite a while as I have chronic pain and the sub works well. I must also note that I am on 'Androgel" testosterone replacement as my levels of testosterone were way, way below the normal.

the Androgel helps but I still am only about 10% (f one could actually measure a %) Androgel is also a $45 co-pay and that is a lot for a fixed income person.

Please offer any advice or expirence. Thanks

Glen AKA "TheSwan"
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Unread 09-14-2008, 12:58 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Glen, here's an older thread on that, with more links in it to other threads:

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=17855

In short, a lot of people find that it returns when they're dose is lowered.
Have you tried 2mg for pain control? Some find that that works just as well as 4mg.

Nancy
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Unread 09-14-2008, 01:11 PM   #3
OhioMike
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I can tell you at 1mg per day, well ............ things are always looking up!

As your dose goes down, other things should be going up. That seems to be the norm with most of us. Some never have problems, even at 16mg and some still have problems at 1mg.

Hang in there!

OMike
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Unread 09-14-2008, 09:49 PM   #4
theswan
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Hi Mike and Nancy

Thanks for the prompt reply to my posting. I was not too sure before but now am sure about reducing my dose.

The way I arrived at 16mg was due to the clinical trial I was on. It was inpatient sponsored by Columbia Prespyterian Hosptial. They 'induced" me and then slowly went up on the amount without me knowing. They gave me 3 pill "parts" 4 times a day. At times the dose was part placebo (sugar pill) I never knew for sure nor did the doctor or nurses. Only the pharm. knew for sure.

The researcher got the information after I left the program. I was not happy on the say, 8th day and reported feeling "high" and out of it. It turns out that on the 7th and 8th day, I was on 20 or so milligrams (I don't remember exactly but it was high) They then came back down to 16mg and therefore that is where I stand. The 16mg just seemed to fit.

My doctor said that I can start cutting my last dose in half (which is really 1 quarter) My dad ended up in the emergency room 3 times and then into a nursing home and then...Anyway, life is beyond hectic at this point so i decide against starting a "cutback" until after I move to NYC. The doctor agreed and in fact wants to see me every two weeks for a while. My emotions are very raw at this point in time and my depression is at a nadir.

I will soon start to cut down and hope for good results. At this point while cutting two milligrams should not have major negative effects, just the thought of changing things now seems too much to bear. this may be all in my head but that after all is the root of all my problems lol

Glen
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Unread 09-14-2008, 10:03 PM   #5
spoint1
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Ah, good luck, Glen.
Here's hoping that as OMikeputs it "things" will be looking UP with a reduction in dose once your life calms down.
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Unread 09-14-2008, 10:42 PM   #6
OhioMike
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Glen, when you do begin to reduce your dose, try to not focus on it and do not let that rush your overall recovery. Stay busy, enjoy life, work recovery everyday, but, do not over work it!

I found as my dose slowly came down, many of the side effects either eased up greatly or went away all together. I did not have the problem you are, but, I had others which seemed to be extreme. By the time I got below 8mg or so, I really saw some results. Of course we are each different. Most people I know do much better below 6mg with all side effects.

I know your not pleased with this side effect but remember, you cannot risk your recovery to solve it, because then it won't matter! Stick with it, you will get there and in a healing fashion.

One more thing and we posted this long ago someplace on here, but, here are some tips. Don't focus on the sex. Spend more time on togetherness in a intimate fashion (watching a good movie naked or close to it), slowly creating the mood (give her a warm coconut oil massage) and play some games. Let the moment slowly build. That has helped some. Sorry to be so descriptive or forward, but, I know other way to explain it.


OMike

Last edited by OhioMike; 09-14-2008 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: missing word
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Unread 09-15-2008, 01:50 AM   #7
theswan
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No worries Mike

I get where you are coming from and think it is good advice. We will work it out in time as we have the true-time tested love already. The sex will improve because we remain intimate. We hug and cuddle and kiss and give back rubs etc. The actual sex is not as great as I have made it up tp be anyway. To be honest-I enjoy sex. I am OK with intimacy right now and know the sex will be a non issue down the road.

There is advantage to being celebrate as well. We get to see who we really are while not getting hung up on sex. I am patient and will accept what comes.

I will keep you'all informed as to my "drop"

Take care

Glen
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Unread 11-25-2008, 11:49 AM   #8
bskal03
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I have actually had a higher drive since cessation of pain pills. Why? I am on Suboxone, but I can feel the feelings of 'wanting to' coming back. Strange.....
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Unread 12-06-2008, 12:00 PM   #9
rossisub
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Does anyone know -- Is Viagra or Levitra effective when on Subs?
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Unread 12-06-2008, 01:17 PM   #10
NancyB
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Hi rossisub, Suboxone shouldn't interfere with either.

Nancy
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Unread 12-06-2008, 04:37 PM   #11
follydad
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Hey Rossisub, I'm on day 3 of sub and have experienced a complete blockage of lower body functions (I still haven't done a dooker since Tuesday) but you'll be happy to know that rocket fuels like Levitra and Viagra simply don't take no for an answer. I took just half one this morning when I heard my wife doing extra brushing and gargling in the bathroom and the shuttle took off right on schedule. I'm going to take a laxative in a few minutes to jump start the #2 situation, but even if that doesn't work, I'm so thrilled to not be taking my DOC that I don't care if I ever go again. What's so cool is that I haven't even thought about my Sub today. Definitely not my DOC. This path really frees your mind up.
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Unread 12-06-2008, 04:38 PM   #12
follydad
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Correction, DAY 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Unread 12-08-2008, 11:12 PM   #13
postman
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...just read that last post again. It's fricking funny. No transition from nook to duke. Hilarious.
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Unread 01-30-2009, 03:01 AM   #14
Alaska
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I have been on Methadone for 20 years and the whole time I was trying to have as much Sex as possible, but it became impossible. I just learned to be a giver and not a receiver. I am 47 and thought I would never enjoy it again. I just assumed I ruined myself and burned off the nerves that gave pleasure. I came off of 600 mgs a day of Methadone in 6 months to 50mgs on Jan 3rd 2009. I started the Sub on January 7th after flying home from a very cold and remote place in Alaska. Within 1 hour I was entering the most severe withdrawal that Docs at the ER and my Sub doc had ever seen. 10 days of violent wretching and other terrible things that I will never ever forget, but I will hate them and draw strength from that experience. I am now on 23 days on sub and I am doing it(sex) 2 or 3 times a day.I feel like a 18 year old kid and I am so grateful not just because my wife stuck with me and held on when she didn't have to, but I didn't destroy anything, it was always there I just had to want it bad enough. Sub is way different than Methadone, but is much much safer and way less menacing to me. I loved my Methadone yet I can't believe I am not jonesing for it at all because I have a full plate with all the new stuff(sex) that I am busy with. Good luck to all of you in your quest for peace of mind and soul. It is there if you want it bad enough.

Brett
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Unread 01-30-2009, 11:17 AM   #15
theswan
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Hi Alaska and welcome

Happy to hear of your positive expirence's. I am also diabetic amd suffer depression ( and 56 ) these thrown into the mix are also factors for low libido.

I started testosterone therapy and have had some sucess but not a whole lot. It may take time as well as reducing my sub dose. I'll keep updating as need be.

Glen
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Unread 01-30-2009, 11:52 AM   #16
Alaska
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I am also on Testosterone therapy. I give myself a IM injection every 2 weeks of 1 1/2 cc. I have tried all of the other ways of getting the hormone i.e. patches, creams etc. Injection is the most effective. In fact when I went through the WD from Methadone I forgot and didn't feel like giving mysels a couple of shots during that time. I had blood work done because of some other medical stuff and my Dr. said that I needed to increase the amount of T. I actually gave myself a double shot 3 cc and 4 days later redid the blood and It was normal level. I only suggest what works for me, but patches suck if you work physically like I do. They are expensive and because of where you are required to place them they roll up and fall off. Good luck


Brett
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Unread 01-30-2009, 12:26 PM   #17
theswan
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Hi Brett

Yes I agree. After three days post injection, I got an-can I say it? Well you know. I got that morning thing going.
I also had a few twinges of libido so, I feel the injections are better. I did not get this with the gel until I swabbed that sruff all over-like 10 pumps!

I hate to ahve to go every two-three weeks but it is worth it. My doctor wrote books on testosterone. You can google him but I don't know if that is allowed here.

His first name anyway is E.Barry------

He swears by it for many, many disorders.

I'm a little afraid of needles so I will not inject myself but insurance has no co-pay for visits so I have it made.

Good luck to you,

Glen
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Unread 01-30-2009, 01:17 PM   #18
NancyB
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Hi Glen, if you think it'd be ok with your doctor, you can put his name here. It could be helpful to others.

Good to hear you're doing better.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 01-31-2009, 05:02 PM   #19
Alaska
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I want to offer another thought. Along with the T IM shots and I am taking a very small dose of Bromocriptine once a day. Your Pituitary Gland regulates a chemical called Prolactin. This chemical is what regulates the level of T in your system. Doing research on my own I discovered that people on long term high dose Methadone usually have high Prolactin levels which reduce the amout of T. I was finally able to find an Endocronoligist that would work with me and not give me the same old shit. You can't get it up because your on Methadone if you want a sex life quit it. Easy for them to say. Long story and I finally was put on Bromocriptine and along with the shots I have beconme T normal again. My hope is that with Sub I might see this fix some of the long term damage done by the super high dose of Methadone I was on(600mgs for 6 years)totally crazy. I already feel like getting wood when the wind blows now so I know things are getting much much much better. I just hope the 20 years of depriving my beautiful wife that she will be ready for me when I get back from my 2 month work in Alaska. She has no clue what she is getting back when I come home. From a nodding, limp shell of a man to an awake, thinner, hornier old man. HEHEHEHE.

Brett
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Unread 02-18-2009, 01:00 AM   #20
ironman
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I can tell you that with me there is a specific dose threshold that makes the difference.
I'm on 2mg x 3 daily. No libido - zip, zero, nadda. If I skip a dose here and there or only take one 2mg - well, the next day I have a real problem ! My libido returns in spades !
Its problematic in that it does not allow for "spontaneity".
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Unread 02-18-2009, 01:47 AM   #21
theswan
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thanks ironman

I guess! information is power even if it's not what you want to hear

Glen
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Unread 02-19-2009, 01:02 AM   #22
ironman
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Glen,

This may help - I did find that although I had no interest in sex, once involved in the process things worked out fine ! I was mentally unwilling or, more accurately, just not interested. This lady had a few drinks in here and decided to "share" some of her earliest sexual experiences with me. Her "boyfriend" is my friend. He happened to be on an errand. I think she was just messing with my head to see what I'd do - I'm 20 years her senior. It finally got to the point that I had to tell her to change the subject
as her very descriptive story was having an obvious physical effect on me and I didn't want to have to hide in the bathroom when "he" returned home ! Thats the best way I can put it on a "family friendly" website LOL !
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Unread 02-19-2009, 01:04 AM   #23
ironman
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That should read:

"This lady had a few drinks in her...".

I have to type fast here tonight !
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Unread 02-21-2009, 01:54 AM   #24
Kate1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman View Post
That should read:

"This lady had a few drinks in her...".

I have to type fast here tonight !

I can totally relate. I'm on a low dose of subutex and my libido is back and in full action. I have no partner (sadly,) but if I did, he would be very very happy. I've had issues with sex (prior abuse and such,) but now I'm up for it. I feel like I need to have sex, but I don't want to be irresponsible so I turn to my little vibrating friend. Anyhow, I'm sorry to be graphic, but I hear you!
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Unread 02-21-2009, 11:35 AM   #25
theswan
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Hi

I still take care of certain needs once in a while. I do it out of boredom rather then desire at most times.

The testosterone does get me to a point where I have some libido but on a scale of 100, it's about 10.

I hope to reduce the sub some more this Spring as my depression gets better as the wheather warms

Glen
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Unread 05-20-2009, 02:58 PM   #26
ironman
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Kate1978,

Probably too late for a response here - I can only visit this site once in a great while. I always feel bad though when I see someone has taken the time to respond to my post and I don't/can't acknowledge it. Anyhow, just didn't want you, or anyone else for that matter, whose response
I've missed, to feel I'm 'blowin' you off'. Take care.
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