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Unread 03-02-2008, 11:18 PM   #1
NancyB
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Default Welcome New Member: I_shall_rise

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quote:Originally posted by I_shall_rise

I have a question...I am also on 16 mgs a day. 8 mg in morning, and I take my other 8 at about 5. I am wanting to cut myself down to 12 mg total, but I have a question about how to dose it? I would cut each 8 mg tab in two, and then I'd have to take 4 mgs. 3 X a day. When you're dosing back does it matter what time you take your sub and/or how many times a day you take it? For instance, when I eventually get down to 4 mgs, will it be 2 mgs twice a day, or can I take it all in one dose? I hope this isn't as confusing as I made it sound! Just curious about dosing and times and amounts, that's all.
Thanks a bunch.
J
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Unread 03-02-2008, 11:20 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi I_shall_rise and welcome. At that dose, many people don't have a problem dosing once a day.
It eliminates the clock watching and need to dose more than once as was with the former DOC.

Just remember that bupe has a long duration of action, so you may not notice a drop for two or three days if you do notice one at all.

I hope that helps.
Nancy
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Unread 03-03-2008, 05:27 PM   #3
I_shall_rise
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Hi Nancy, thank you. So to be sure I have it correct... If I go down to 12 mgs this week then taking it one time a day is okay? If it's going to affect the efficiency of the medication then I don't mind taking it 2 or 3 times a day. I guess the confusing part for me was just that I would be cutting the 8 mg. tabs in two, and 12 mgs would be taking that 3 halves, so I just don't know WHEN to take each half. But I'm pretty sure you answered my question, it sounds like it doesn't really matter when you take it.

My second question I hope some people can chime in on because I've been searching message boards endlessly for the answer. With my opiate use (oxy,vic,perc,morphine,benzos...anything else I could get my hands on that might make me a babbling idiot...even though I thought it made me extra sharp..lol...illusions!) Anyways- with all that poison in my body, in addition I was a food addict, and when my disease was active it was in full swing, so I also binge ate with the pills. Obviously this caused a huge weight gain, like 70 lbs in 2 years. Well now that I'm no longer using I have been taking some major steps at dropping the weight, i.e. weight watchers, and watching what I eat altogether- and the weight is not coming off. It's so frustrating because before I took pills whenever I would go on one of my crazy yo yo diets I could drop 10-12 lbs in the first week, and 5 lbs a week on average. My body just has a huge fluctuation...(I can get on the scale at night and be 10 lbs heavier)...however, I noticed that this time, while really trying and making the effort to lose weight it's coming off SOOOOO slow, if at all. I'm wanting to blame it on the suboxone because I've never had this problem until I started taking it. The last time I detoxed off opiates (cold turkey without suboxone) I lost 20 lbs in a month, of course as we all know....EVERYTHING runs right through you, literally! So I'm frustrated with this, being that my drug use was majorly based on trying to cover up my emotional sadness about my body image and being overweight, now I don't have the drugs to mask the pain...and the weight is getting worse! Sorry this is so long, I just hope that someone can relate and maybe there is hope after suboxone!!!
Thank you for welcoming me- it's true what they say about you nice folks on this website, you really are all supportive!
Thanks again!
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Unread 03-03-2008, 06:05 PM   #4
Douglas
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I shall rise,

Yes you will. I think dosing is something you experiment with. If 4mg all at once works, great. If 2mg AM and 2mg PM work, that's great too. I do the latter. I believe my body is so saturated with Suboxone after 11 months, that I could go two-three days without feeling any withdrawals, like Nancy says.

Remember, before they even came out with Suboxone, they had an injectable form of buprenorphine called Buprenex. It was only 0.3mg and they equated it to 15mg of morphine. That's why they say, buprenorphine is 50 times more potent than morphine. It's just a play on numbers. But buprenorphine is a strong opiate, and a long slow taper is best for good results, IMO

Doug
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Unread 03-03-2008, 06:10 PM   #5
I_shall_rise
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Thanks Doug. If you don't mind me asking, how many mgs do you take after 11 months? With the weight issue I'm having I was going to talk to my Dr. about starting to taper even though it's only been a couple months. But the more I hear and read, it sounds like it may be better to give it a longer run.
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Unread 03-03-2008, 11:50 PM   #6
I_shall_rise
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That's also kind of another question I have about the sub. Everyone says they didn't really feel anything as far as w/drawals go jumping from 16 to 12, or 12 to 8, but that it gets harder once you get down to 2 and .5...well then why not go from 16 (my dose now) straight down to like 6? If it's going to be the same. My nurse shunned upon me even tapering at all being so fresh into treatment, but somtetimes I think the doctors don't know what they're talking about anyways. I swear I learn more on these message boards than anything my doctor's told me. He even told me there is absolutely no chance of withdrawals when getting off suboxone....I was like "oh yeah, you want me to show you about a million people who've said different...and actually have been on it!"...So it seems silly to go from 16 to 12, if there's no difference, maybe I should just jump right down to 8? Has anyone ever halved their dose?
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Unread 03-04-2008, 06:54 PM   #7
Douglas
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I shall rise,

After 11 months I am on 2mg of Suboxone a day. Now I'm doing 2mg every other day. So far so good. I started, like most, on 16mg for 8 months. Then one day I did 8mg, didn't feel any difference. Then I went to 4mg and didn't feel any difference. So now at 11 months, I'm at 2mg and getting ready to free myself of this physically dependent drug.

Suboxone does save lives, methadone saves lives, jail saves lives. But the weight problem eludes me. Are you saying you overeat on Suboxone or opiates in general. Weight has never been a problem for me, because I really don't eat a lot. A little breakfast and dinner and I stay away from sugar and bad carbs. I'm pre-diabetic, so I really have to watch what I eat. I'm 210lbs and 5'10", and have a 35 inch waist, so I'm a little overweight.

As far as going from 16mg to 8mg I would do this. Take 8mg in the AM, and at night if you feel you don't need it, why take it. But If you need it take it.

Suboxone has a half-life 24-72 hours (37 is the mean). What that means simply, is that it stays in your system for about 3 days before a person will really feel withdrawals. After 11 months, I bet I could go a week before I felt any withdrawals, and at 2mg, (which really only 1mg gets in my system with a 50% bioavailability) I think I could kick much easier than methadone. I cold turkeyed on 128mg of methadone for four months. My friend stopped at 8mg and he said he had withdrawals for 5-7 days, and after that the physical w/d's were pretty much gone.

Hang in there, and watch what you eat - protein, corn, beans, half cooked potatoes and many other things that will help you lose weight and remain healthy.

Best of Luck,

Doug
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Unread 03-05-2008, 03:14 AM   #8
I_shall_rise
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Thanks Doug,
see that's the thing... compared to how I used to eat pre-suboxone and how I eat now is like night and day. I am so much more health concious now, but for some odd reason the weight just isn't coming off the way it typically does. And as I said before, I heard of a lot of people saying they were constipated and/or retained water while on sub, which to me is an indication there could be weight gain. I just wanted to know if this is the experience of a lot of people or not. so You think it would be okay to drop from 16 to 8? I was going to do 16 to 12, but as I also mentioned before, what's the difference if they say you don't really feel a drop until you get down in the single digit mgs...
I just want to be completely and totally drug free before summer. With the sweating that the sub causes, I don't think I'd be able to handle those w/drawals on the sub when it's so hot outside...so I really want to be completely off by spring. Which only puts me at about 6 months altogether on suboxone. I'm thinking of not telling my doctor that I'm tapering so that he can keep prescpribing the larger amounts in case I need it while I'm tapering. I don't know the whole things is so confusing, Why us? It's crazy that these little man made pills could have had this much an affect over my entire life! It really boggles my mind.
Thanks for listening to me ramble yet again, think I'm changing my name to rambling queen.
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Unread 03-07-2008, 05:03 PM   #9
I_shall_rise
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Okay well my intention was to go from 16 to 12, but last night by accident I only took 8. So I'm going to go with that. I thought maybe halving my dose would be too much of a drop, but if I'm going to do it in a timely manner the way I've been saying I want to, then why wait? Like you said, if I'm uncomfortable I'll just take more. (or tough it out) That's the interesting part about suboxone, you say it has about a 36 hour half life, yet you can take it and feel better almost instantly. That's odd to me.
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Unread 03-07-2008, 05:33 PM   #10
lynnj726
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Shall rise
Welcome! Just wanted to ask you how long you had been taking your DOC prior to starting on sub? I also would really like to set a goal of being off of it by the summer time. I am taking 8mg. daily right now. You caught my eye when you mentioned about not telling your dr. about the taper. I have considered doing the same, for the same reasons, I would like to be free of the sub. but it would be nice to have extra incase I would need more for some reason, that would save me a trip, office visit and money of getting another rx! I am not trying to be devious or lie, I just feel like often times I find more help and real answers to real problems here than through my doctor, and I think that I know myself and what I need better than the textbook answer that doctors are given and passed on to me. Just curious as to when you started the sub. and what your previous history was. Thanks and best wishes!
Jaime
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Unread 03-07-2008, 07:30 PM   #11
I_shall_rise
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Jaime-
Thank you for your interest, glad you could relate to my story. I started using Vics and percs like most people, really small doses, maybe a couple a week, then one a day, then I started making rules for myself which by the way is one true characteristic of an addict, such as saying I'm only going to take these on the weekends. But then Monday came and I really wanted that nice little buzz again, "but I'll for sure quit tomorrow"....Mind you, when I had back surgery back in 03, I never took any pills once. I didn't like the way they made me feel, boy if I knew then what I know now. So At any rate I continued on with that "rule making" behavior, and then without trying to sound like I'm making excuses I lost 5 family members within one year, and also lost a very professional and serious career opportunity, this sent me into a tailspin of depression and I realized "hey these little things don't only take away my back pain, but this mental and emotional pain seems to subside too!"

so my pill usage started to get very serious about the end of 05. Every day, every morning, middle of the night, 5 10's at a time...chasing my high, passing out on the road, 3 overdoses, serious business. So in April of 07 I went to a treatment center and quit cold turkey ( or with their version of w/d meds) did my 21 days, felt like I was on top of the world and didn't need a pill ever again. Got out, got home

...reality hit. I was back in the same situation, same place, and my phone was still ringing with "GREAT DEALS" on these little man made pieces of evil destruction, and I found myself unable to say NO. So as soon as I believe it was June (think I had 40 days sober) I went and got my first street script, and thought to myself....and once again thought I could control my use, but one day I took a few more than I intended to take, so I asked my sister to hold them, and please only give me one when I really need it for my back pain. She agreed, and then I found a way to manipulate her of course, master manipulator I am, into giving me not only some pills, but the whole bottle back. It was over after that. Percs, Hydros...30 a day....but then I found Oxy, way easier...only needed one 80 a day....and then 2, and so on.....

My mom came and visited me while living in Seattle and my sister let her in on my little secret and even TOLD her where my stash was, so after I went to sleep...yeah right, Calling it what it is- After I PASSED OUT one night she went in my purse and sure enough found my nice little variety pack of all kinds of different goodies, different colors, shapes, sizes....Most of them were the same thing due to the way the pharmacies have different brands, but imagine as a mother totally naive to this all she could think is "oh my goodness, what is all this??!?! she's going to die!" So my mom drug my 26 year old ass back to my hometown and I was devestated....but I knew that there had to be a breaking point at some point. I researched suboxone, only to realize the lack of doctors in the area that prescribe this medication and the huuuuuge waiting list I would be on.

But that sounded like music to my ears because in that case I could be on the list with intentions to quit, but in the meantime get high as a kite while I "waited" to get better. It worked out perfect,until induction day actually came! LOL. So I started out on 16 mgs starting January 8th. Feel pretty good besides the serious fatigue, and weight gain. So Monday this week (March 3rd) I started on 12, and yesterday I forgot to take my last piece of 4mg. So I've decided to just take it down to 8mg. And we'll see how that goes.

Now when I explained to my doctor that I wanted to possibly drop half my dose, he was totally and completely against it and said that was not only too much of a drop, but that it's still too early in recovery. This is also the same doctor that said there are no withdrawals from suboxone, OH YEAH- this is also the SAME doc that has not had one patient get off suboxone successfully yet. Well I plan on being that first patient. But you have to ask, if he doesn't have one sucessful case, and he's only been prescribing sub for about a year, and HE isn't taking it, so how knowledgeable can he actually be?? He's a wonderful man, bless him, he's really great and very intelligent, but when it comes to the sub, I think the medical reports he's reading are a little too technical and are not considering actual personal experience. That's why I've claimed to learn 1000X more info on this website than anything I've read on the sub website (who's just trying to sell it) and from his office. I brought up all the people on the message boards that have problems weaning off sub, and he said those people are people that don't do it right, etc etc. Who knows? I can only go off my experience.

As far as not telling him I'm doing this. I already had one discrepancy with his nurse where she was looking at the calendar wrong and thought I should have more than I did. I was literally out, and she was saying "you're not supposed to be out till the 30th" ....so I said "what??! I can't help that, I'm out and I need more, what would I have even done with them??!" and she informed me they are a hot commodity on the street implying that she was convinced I sold them, which really is a dumb thing to tell an addict in the first place! But then she went back and did her math and realized that I was right, so without any apology or admittance of guilt she got me more....however, I don't want to ever go through that again, so of course I'm going to make sure I have back up.
How many mgs were you on before 8?

Thanks for once again taking an interest in my story and hopefully I didn't bore you to death.
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Unread 03-08-2008, 06:01 PM   #12
lynnj726
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Not boring at all! It is always good for me to hear of others stories, it makes me feel like I am not alone! I did the same things, telling myself that it was only going to be on the weekends, or after work, and then there was always a reason to take more, an event, rough day at work, fight w/ my boyfriend...you know the story! And then ofcourse it became all day everyday! I was started on 12mg a day for only a week before I realized that one 8mg a day was sufficient, that was in Jan08. I have started to alternate days of 4mg a day, without a problem. So I am thinking that I may be able to take the plunge and just stay at 4mg a day. My drug history was off and on for about 2 years, but it wasn't until last year that it became uncontrollable. I would say I had one full year of it being a problem. I don't know if thats considered on the lower end of addiction ( or however you would classify it) so maybe I wont have such a long treatment w/ suboxone. I know everyone is different, and I know I have an addictive personality, but it would be nice if there was some kind of equasion that would factor in the length of your addiction and give you an idea of the suggested time of suboxone treatment. When did you start the treatment? hope you are continuing to do well!
Jaime
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Unread 03-08-2008, 06:25 PM   #13
I_shall_rise
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Jaime-
I started January 8th. So a little over 2 mo's ago. And my goal is to be completely done by May/June (the really hot months I DO NOT want to be going through serious withdrawal!) I already sweat on this stuff like crazy and I can't stand it!
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