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Unread 10-09-2007, 02:12 AM   #1
FloridaJarhead
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Hi Guys,

Have been reading this site a few weeks now and have learned alot. I am meeting with my doc on Wed 10/10 and will get all of the scoop and info to get started. I had a back injury this year and had to have surgery and have worked my way up to about 200+mg of roxicodone per day for about 9 months. Time to get off. I had 16 years clean before this episode so I'm feeling real guilty about what I am going through. I am hoping that the induction won't be too rough and I can get stabilized rather quickley. Any body else been in my shoes with same type of drug and can fill me in on what to expect and how long to feel miserable before I get stabalized? Thanks in advance. This is a great group.

Jarhead
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Unread 10-09-2007, 02:19 AM   #2
flier1
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Jarhead

DONT feel guilty, you took that first BIG step and that is to get help. Make sure you are in Mild to Moderate WD'S I went 14 hours and I was taking 40 percocets a day and did very well. Try to start if the Dr will let you at the lowest dose possible. But you should do very well. Please if the first few days of trying to get stabilized is hard hang in there but you hopefully will go right in and do this with flying colors. I want to WELCOME you and on the 10th keep coming to the board and post someone is always here and we will help you as much as we can good luck to you and be proud of yourself for taking that first big step the best is yet to come.

Helen
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Unread 10-09-2007, 02:34 AM   #3
Fish
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Hey MARINE, welcome to the site. If you're anything like me, induction will go pretty easy. My guess is that you will feel instantly better and won't believe that you found this drug. Thinga will get better for you. Imagine never worrying again if you are going to run out.
Best
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Unread 10-09-2007, 02:51 AM   #4
FloridaJarhead
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Thanks guys, I meet with the doc this Wednesday and will bring my scripts home and will start my induction on Saturday night (after waiting the proper wd time) while my wife is here to assist me. I have BC & BS PPO of Florida and was wondering about how much they will pay on the meds. I printed out a few of the discount cards that I found in some of the other posts on this forum and wonder if I can use them instead of BC & BS? I found the "AAA Prescription Card" listed and cut it out, the "FreeDrugCard.US" card. I realize that these are not insurance but BC &BS is just a dscount card also. Anybody in SE Florida can recommend the cheapest place to get my sub? I see the stuff can really be expensive if you dont shop around. Flier1 & Fish, thanks for the hardy welcome. I already feel at home here at this site. That is wonderful.

Semper Fi'
Jarhead
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Unread 10-09-2007, 03:41 AM   #5
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Welcome!
I have found walgreens to be cheapest with the freedrugcard.
The biggest difference in pricing is also depends on the quantity you pick up as well.
Have read that walmart is cheap as well..
The best price for me (panhandle FL) has been 4.75 for 30 8mg suboxone at walgreens.
Best of luck!
Michelle
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Unread 10-09-2007, 04:12 AM   #6
Mike
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FloridaJarhead

....and will start my induction on Saturday night (after waiting the proper wd time) ...
Just so you know TIME is only for estimating the onset of withdrawal symptoms, go by the symptoms themselves regardless of time when actually doing the induction. Many things can affect the time it takes. Going by the induction sheet here will ensure a smooth induction:
http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf

Welcome to the board!!
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Unread 10-09-2007, 11:08 AM   #7
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Hi FloridaJarhead and welcome! You might want to check with your BC/BS PPO to see how much they cover of the bupe prescription. I found this site, but you'd have to log in, etc.
http://www.bcbsfl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.home

Also, you can get a list of some of the bupe-carrying pharmacies from our local page:
http://www.naabt.org/local/
You might want to make some phone calls ahead of time. But as Michelle noted, the price will also depend on the quantity. Sometimes the smaller 'mom and pop' stores are actually less expensive also, so it helps to call around.

Congratulations on taking the steps you already have!
Nancy
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Unread 10-09-2007, 11:38 AM   #8
sandfrog
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FloridaJarhead

Hi Guys,

Have been reading this site a few weeks now and have learned alot. I am meeting with my doc on Wed 10/10 and will get all of the scoop and info to get started. I had a back injury this year and had to have surgery and have worked my way up to about 200+mg of roxicodone per day for about 9 months. Time to get off. I had 16 years clean before this episode so I'm feeling real guilty about what I am going through. I am hoping that the induction won't be too rough and I can get stabilized rather quickley. Any body else been in my shoes with same type of drug and can fill me in on what to expect and how long to feel miserable before I get stabalized? Thanks in advance. This is a great group.

Jarhead
Semper Fi Jarhead and permission to come aboard is granted! [8D]

I was in your same position a little over a month ago with the roxicodones and percocets and went through detox. With the help of NA, counseling and Suboxone I am now living a great life that I never knew was possible as I was addicted for 12 years and my only concern was getting and using more pills.

Glad you are hear and we are all here to support you.

Amazing how a little pill can take down the toughest of the tough, huh? [B)]

Mike
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Unread 10-09-2007, 08:38 PM   #9
FloridaJarhead
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all of the warm welcomes. I already feel at home here. I have been going over the induction sheet with my wife for a few days now. I actually went into WD early this morning Unplanned, just wasnt thinking straight I guess). Let me explain what happened and I would appreciate any feedback and advice as this is how I was planning on doing my induction this coming Friday night (by getting as much sleep as I can to pass the time). OK, here goes:

Yesterday, I took a dose of 120mg roxi's at about 1PM in the afternoon. That was enough for a great buzz all afternoon, killed all of the pain, got me through the evening, reading this site, watching TV etc. and I took a heavy dose of sleep meds and went to bed at around 11PM. I really don't like to take any higher dose of roxi's than that at any one time. Well at 4am this morning I woke up starting to go into WD. I was shaking all over, could not lay still tossing and turning, ran to the bathroom twice with diareah, moaning my butt off, some sweating. I did not look at my pupils but I am sure that they were still pinned (does that matter?). Did not measure my pulse either but I could tell it was elevated. I was very agitated and very miserable. Today after looking back on it and counting the score on the COWS chart (I was stingy) with the the score and it worked out to be about a 13 or so (bordering mild to moderate). I had to get up and take 60mg of Roxi's and it took me about an hour or so to settle down to the point where I actually felt semi-human again and managed to go back to sleep for a few hours. Boy, that took a toll on my mind and body though. (now that I think about it, that was a rather stupid thing to do) (From the time that I took the roxi's at 1pm in the afternoon until I woke up at 4am in WD, that was about 15 hours). My question is....is this enough of a score (or time lapse between doses) to start my inducion or should I wait until I actually feel worse to sort of raise the score because I read that if I start the induction too early that I will actually go into worse WD's? All advice, suggestions and criticisms will be taken with respect. Thanks again guys as I meet my doc tomorrow morning as the time is fast approaching and plan on doing the inducton some time this Saturday morning after I wake up from a long sleep. Is this a good plan (sleeping through as much of it as I can until I start the induction)?????

Jarhead
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Unread 10-09-2007, 08:44 PM   #10
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all thats required is mild to moderate wds..and sounds like you were sure there..and sleeping is actaully the best thing to do if possible..
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Unread 10-10-2007, 06:02 AM   #11
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Jar Head
As I mentioned above I was about 14 hours and was acting just like you were.
I scored a 13 when I was inducted so it sounded just like me, so I think you could of IMO had started Sub then if you were to have had it. I have Anthem BC BS and my meds are paid with my co pay of 30 dollars. Good luck tomorrow and we will be here for you anytime you need, just keep us updated

Helen
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Unread 10-10-2007, 09:29 AM   #12
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Hi Jarhead,
Welcome, glad you found us here!!

I think you'll do good on your induction, I was in the MILDEST of wd's, having taken a 5 mg lortab just a few hours before induction. My pupils were big, and I was straight instead of being buzzed as usual and just a little bit sweaty and irritable. My usual daily dose of hydro was 150-200 mgs/day. The doc started me on 4 mgs and after fifteen minutes sent me on my way [with instructions to take another 4 mg in four hours.] About an hour later I felt FANTASTIC!! I'm down to 16 mg/day from 24 mgs since July 20, '07.

I have a few questions for you if you don't mind--When you woke up in w/d's you said you were sure your eyes were still pinned--don't you mean dilated (big)?
And you said you came off 16 years sober, were you in recovery before? Did you use AA or NA or just willpower? Was it opiates before? I'm asking because I just had 3 1/2 yrs clean and sober before I slipped on the pain meds (my only DOC) and ended up on sub.

Again, welcome, hope your induction goes great, and let us know okay? Good luck to you!! Sandra A.

Edited for spelling errors
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Unread 10-10-2007, 04:28 PM   #13
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I'm sure going to keep an eye on this thread! I begin my Suboxone treatment tomorrow, (10/11/07) at 2:00pm. My (new) Dr. said for me to take nothing (narcotics) from this afternoon (today) to have 24 hours without drugs. I should be in some kind of WD's by 2:00pm tomorrow! I don't foresee any sleep tonight! I'm used to taking about 20-30 #10 oxys plus 100 to 150 mg's of fentanyl a day. Today I'm only taking 50 mg of fentanyl to be ready for tomorrow. God, I hate WD. Does any one know how much Suboxone the Dr. should give me? Will the Dr. give me something to help me sleep (thats the worst, not being able to sleep)? I have been to de-tox's before and I know that a full 7-8 hours sleep comes slowly over several months, but I'd like at least 4-5 hours sleep a night. I SO much want this to work! I can't ween myself off the durgs anymore. I have hit my own personal bottom. I have no one to talk to about this, except this forum. The people in my NA group looks up to me, (I'm a hypocrate). I was told by 6 newcommers, that if 'I' ever relasped, then they feel that there's no hope for them! I've told the that it's the program that works for you, not one person. I plan to get honest with them, after I'm honest with myself. I want to get, and STAY clean. Then there's my wife, who WOULD leave if she found out I'm doing drugs again. As I said, the only support I've found is here. Thank you. If some one could please answer the two questions; a) How much Suboxone should I start with, and b) could I take any thing for sleep. I'm verry, very nervous about starting this program. But I know that I MUST begin living clean, to stay alive, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I plan on being an active participant on these forums in hopes of learning, and in 'assisting' to help other people like me. Just to let others know a little about how well I manipulate others, (and what a liar, cheat, and user that I am), I have been invited to take the classes, free of charge, to get my 'FULL' credited doctumentation for a drug and alcolhol abuse councilor (CASAC) from my last rehab. I don't give a urine sample till Feb., 2008. What a crock I am, and thats probably why I'm still married. I've read here that Suboxone has turned others live's around, maybe (say?) it will work for me.

God bless you all,............najohn
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Unread 10-10-2007, 07:29 PM   #14
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bump.
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Unread 10-10-2007, 08:08 PM   #15
CTCheryl
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John I relate a lot to your situation, I was very much the loner and alone when I was using. I fiercely protected my secret use of drugs for over 3 straight years. By the time I found NAABT I was up to 60+500mg vicodin and norco per day and 10 online pharmacies I juggled. Yup, per day and I am 5'8" and was down to 135 pounds,(skeletal) my hair was starting to fall out and I bled like crazy from a simple cut and I was looking bad. I am back to 150 now and feel great. Anyway, I too was convinced my husband would leave me because he is a recovering alcoholic sober now 15 years and I was the doting wife, never a problem, working full time running a household successfully. On the surface, I appeared to have it all together but in private I spent all my free time securing enough drugs (spending $$ I didn't have)to stay out of WD. When I finally made the decision to go on bupe, I stopped using everything at 5pm, by 3:00 or 4am, I woke up sweating profusely and my pupils were huge. I knew I was starting withdrawal. I have such a fear of WD, I took my first 8mg of sub and went back to bed. I slept a few hours, got up at 6am, was shaking and sweating so I took another. I WENT TO WORK but my job is not physical in any way so I melted another at noon and worked the rest of the day just fine. I had headaches the first week and didn't sleep well and hated the taste. But other than that, really no side effects to speak of.

I felt so free. So free in fact, I decided to tell my husband and although it took many months and couples counseling, we have made many changes in our marriage and my girls have also become more accepting of my new life but no, he didn't leave me. I still feel free, it's been a year and I've gone from 32mg a day to 20mg a day and am holding there. I feel no need to mess with perfection at this point but hope to stick to my doctor's 3 year plan of getting off completely. I want to do this in a way that ensures as much as possible that I don't relaspe. Coming to this site every day and going to my weekly bupe group and going to a step AA meeting help that happen as well. I love my group, we confront each other when we need it and validate each other too. We are like family, better than family because we are honest with each other. We come from all walks of life and addiction, from heroin and methadone to pills.

What were your deciding factors to do this? I know Fla, you had 16 years clean and I'm curious to see your answers to Sandra's ?'s. John, make sure you find out about the fentanyl use before you make the change over, I know there is some long acting drug that needs you to step down from and I'm not sure if it's fentanyl or oxi, it may be both. Check first, ok? I was a counselor for 15 years and had to get out completely from that field because of what a farce I had become. Plus the age of crack had dawned so there just didn't seem to be anyone getting off of it back then. You can tell it was a long time ago because truly, crack had just gotten popular when I quit. I worked in an evening treatment program for alcohol for about 5 years, loved it in the beginning but......you can put that decision off too for awhile can't you? You have a great deal of pressure on you and I hope some can be alleviated while you tackle your demons.

I look forward to both of your returns. Read, read, and then read some more. There is so much amazing information here and so many amazing people...
Welcome
Cheryl
(sorry for the ramble)
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Unread 10-10-2007, 08:41 PM   #16
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Oh Cheryl, that wasn't rambling. It was good advice! thank you. I told my Doc. about the Fentanyl and the Oxys. She didn't seem concerned. Said that she has helped 100 people like me, and all succesful. I'm just afraid of WD! I'm lookin forward to telling my wife, and my NA group about my lies. I WANT to be honest. Say, I feel well enough tomorrow after my first treatment, I would like to tell all on this forum on how it went. After hearing about all the success's of this miracle drug, I feel VERY positive! Thank you again Cheryl!.............najohn
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Unread 10-10-2007, 11:30 PM   #17
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mom and pops drug stores tend to be cheaper than chains, just my experence
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Unread 10-11-2007, 12:30 AM   #18
FloridaJarhead
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Hi Guys,

Well, I just got home from my doc appt. He wrote me a script for Subuxone 8/2 (qty #30 for 1 week). I explained to him what I explained to you guys about my 15 hour WD and he said that was perfect for induction. I will take my last large dose on Friday 10/12/07 afternoon around 1 PM and try to do it the exact same way this week. (wake up Saturday moring in WD). He said to first take half a pill, then wait 2 hours and then take another half of a pill, then another half of a pill every 2 hours until I find the dosage that keeps me out of WD.That sounds reasonable but just hope I dont have to go through too much miserable before I get to my needed dosage. He said the trick is to find that precise dosage and then take the whole amount the same time each morning and I will be fine for 24 hours. Sound right?

Sandra,

I joined AA in 1991 because of booze and pills and remained clean until this year when I fell into the trap with the pain meds at my pain clinic. Before I had my back surgery, no amout of pain meds would help me but after my surgery I am recovering very well physically. The next step is to kick the addiction to the roxi's which I will start this weekend. Sandra, when I say my eyes were still "pinned", I mean they were not dilated but still very small even though I was in WD. BTW, the price of 30 pills was $147.00 at CVS.

Any other tips before I start induction would be helpful. Thanks again guys for the nice welcome and tips and I will definitely let you guys know how everything goes on Saturday.

Jarhead
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Unread 10-11-2007, 12:54 AM   #19
FloridaJarhead
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NAJohn,

You will get clean, have faith my friend. I wsh you the best of luck. This drug may not be a miracle drug but from what I have read it is the closest thing to it. Like I said I could never have imagined myself ever getting to the point of 16 years clean and sober, but I did (one day at a time) just like everybody in the rooms and in this forum. If my back surgery would not have been successful, then I would be alot less optimistic. I am healing nicely and going through some very deep muscle and bone maninulation therapy that is also painful. I report back to my SUB doc 1 week from today and after I get stabilized then we will talk about what other medications if any I can use for back pain. BTW, I am lucky as this particular SUB doc is also in recovery so he understands what I (we) are all going through. I signed up for a 6 - 8 week program through a "drug rehab outpatient program" which wasnt cheap and that is how I ended up here at this website. I would have never know about SUB if it wasnt for them.
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Unread 10-11-2007, 02:50 PM   #20
CTCheryl
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Hey flaJar

Excellent news! I am thinking if you can hang in there another hour or so, your pupils will be dilated. I am wondering if you could start anyway even if they aren't because all of your other symtoms sound like full withdrawal. I am hoping Nancy can jump in here and verify that fact. Like I said in my post it took me approx.11 hours after my last hurrah to be in full withdrawals and that day I had taken more Norco than ever before because I got this un-expected delivery and said WTF may as well take them all! I gave about 10 of them to a dear friend over Bloody Mary's to take home with her and ditch. So I was drinking on top of around 80 of them that day. By that time though, I was never getting high anymore. Just grinding my teeth and eyes wide open!

I wish you the best today and tonight, here's a tip DRINK, DRINK & then when you think you will float, DRINK some more WATER- H2o -fluids any kind but booze. Staying hydrated is so key I can't emphasize it enough. Also I know many people have taken like a benadryl to sleep the first few nights.

Anyone?

Keep in touch, there is always someone around here to help,
Cheryl

John?
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Unread 10-11-2007, 03:01 PM   #21
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Jarhead
Cheryl has it nailed there.Nancy has hammered the hydration deal into us so much we all make sure we mention it whenever possible.Once you dial in your dose you will do great and your Doctors advise so far sounds right on.
Good luck,
Bill
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Unread 10-11-2007, 04:01 PM   #22
Fish
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Hey Jarhead and Najohn,

Pretty soon you will be waking up in the morning feeling absolutely normal and ready for the day. This drug gave me my life back.
Please keep us posted.
Fish
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Unread 10-11-2007, 05:10 PM   #23
gotoffmdone
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I think being clean for 16 years is amazing. By feeling guilty about these past months on Roxicodone it could be easy for you to discount those 16 years. You should very proud of yourself being clean that long. Do not look at taking Sub to get off Roxicodone as having to start over but rather picking up where you left off.

Once a person becomes addicted or dependent on opiates, it does appears that, regardless of how much clean time they have, it takes virtually no time for their tolerance to shoot skyward, once they have to start taking them again. Once the threshold of addiction is crossed, it's as if it is always just waiting in the wings to be unleashed.



Wayne
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Unread 10-11-2007, 06:23 PM   #24
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Another great example as to why sub should be a lifetime experience for most true addicts. Relapse is a very big part of opiate addiction, why take the chance? 16 years is a long time, he was lucky some people relapse and die.
I know my opinion on this is in the minority, but we cant all have the same opinion

My advise to anyone who comes off sub is never let your gaurd down, stay active in fighting this disease, have some type of fighting tools in place for life, We have short memories, we forget how easy it is to become addicted, time is our enemy. Stay focused. For me and some others, its easier to remain on sub then do the other things it takes to remain addiction free.



Brett
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Unread 10-11-2007, 06:53 PM   #25
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Brett,

Sadly as we both know, many feel that if you are on Sub then you are still 'dirty' as they like to call it. Sadly many simply do not understand how the recovery process can work in conjunction with Sub. Taking Sub or Methadone does not mean that you are not living a productive life in active recovery.

A person should never rule out the fact that they may need some level of Sub for life and they should not feel bad or guilty about that. It is not a goal of mine, but, it could be my reality and frankly I would have no problems living with that reality.

We cannot not put limits on what it might take for any of us to live in active recovery and active addiction free. It is going to vary and the only absolute is that recovery is taking place, the method for most parts really should be a non issue.

Mike
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Unread 10-11-2007, 09:29 PM   #26
FloridaJarhead
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""Do not look at taking Sub to get off Roxicodone as having to start over but rather picking up where you left off.

Mike,

I did not plan this as it was just part of my life experience with unbearable backpain and ultimately back surgery so I am just picking up where I left of in recobery/sobriety. I am not beating myself up over it (or trying not to anyways). Tomorow is my last day on roxie's and Saturday morning I start my Suboxone

Jarhead
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Unread 10-11-2007, 09:32 PM   #27
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Good luck jarhead!
let us know how you are doing!
Michelle
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Unread 10-11-2007, 10:10 PM   #28
CTCheryl
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"This drug gave me my life back"
Fish


AMEN!
Cheryl
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Unread 10-11-2007, 10:18 PM   #29
letgoletgod
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My Best to you Jarhead for a good week-end!
Susan
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Unread 10-11-2007, 10:31 PM   #30
gotoffmdone
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Mike, you are right in that some people, whose opinion I have come to value less and less, consider people on Sub as being "dirty". As far as I am concerned, I have not felt this "clean" in 20 years. Heck, as of now, this drug doesn't even show up during regular drug testing for opiates.

Sure, if we did not have to be dependent on any drug, which, in its absence, would cause us to have to contend with witdrawals, that would be ideal.


That being said, that ideal is an unrealistic goal/expectation for a lot of people. I believe, for such persons, Sub becomes the ideal.



Brett,
I bet you are not as much in the minority as you may think. Just a gut feeling I have.

Jarhead,
I forgot to say welcome in my last post. So, WELCOME!

Wayne
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Unread 10-11-2007, 11:16 PM   #31
FloridaJarhead
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Thanks for the well wishes guys. I'm actually excited about getting going on this. As I said, my main goal is to get as much sleep as I can Friday night (sleep meds) and wake up in WD's and then not have long to go before I take my first dose of Suboxone. My doc thought that was a good idea also.
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