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Unread 01-17-2007, 11:33 PM   #1
ExOpiate
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Default Start sub wed/will i die????

thank you all for being here!!!!!!!!!
what can i expect? how horrible is the withdrawal before? i take a small quantity of oxy's (as i am supposed to)- but enough to make me uncomforatble when i do't take them . i have cut myself back from 220 oxycontin to 40 on my own - but the depression, etc is just too much.

i am affraid i will die when i go in for sub treatment at my psychiatrists office.
what are the benefits od sub? please tell me what i have to look forward to instead of what i fear.

i want to hear the good stuff and ways to keep myself healthy once i start and alos what to expect during the detox period.

KIND thnaks, e
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Unread 01-17-2007, 11:52 PM   #2
imNOTconfused
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Ex,

Much like you, I was feeling the exact same way when I started suboxone 8 days ago. You aren't going to die. I know what you mean about the depression, and depression can trigger anxiety- so it's no doubt you're a little anxious. I walked into my doctor's office absolutely terrified. That, combined with being in withdrawl didn't help my state of mind.

Most Dr's like to start people off on 4mg or 8mg of suboxone. My advice would be to ask him to start you out on a lower, rather than a higher dose. Ask him to give you 1mg, or 2mg to start. Too much suboxone and you can feel a little sick. Each person is different and different people require different amounts of suboxone. The first few days may be a little rocky until you get your dose where you need it.

Within 30 minutes of taking suboxone you will feel better. I promise you. Within 2 hours you will be feeling great. Just make sure you are in withdrawl when you go in. You will be able to tell. Check for large pupils, runny nose, nasal drip, yawning, and runny eyes.

Make sure you are completely honest with your doctor about other medications you are taking. Some medications have severe interactions with suboxone. Be very clear and honest.

There is a chatroom on here. I strongly encourage you to join the chat. There are a lot of informed people in the chat. They are a great help.

Best of luck to you. I know how scary it can be.

Hang in there.

-Brent
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:11 AM   #3
ExOpiate
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brent - i so thank you for your input and advice - IF i can figure out how to chat i will be there.
better get going on how to make the chat work.
not too computer savvy.
if you don't see me there...thank you.
e
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:12 AM   #4
Bassdad
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I think this is a great time for the newest people in recovery to speak about 'How it was' so to speak.I believe your taper will serve you well at this time.I came off 900mgs of Oxycontin to Buprenorphine,so I do know what it's like.Replace that fear with joy,the joy of being free from your DOC.

Bassdad
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:18 AM   #5
gotoffmdone
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ex,
I went from methadone at 400mgs a day straight to sub. Did I go into wds yes. Did I feel like hell, yes. Was it the worst experience of my drug life, yes. Did I die, no. I am now 4 months clean after ten years of methadone. I only wish I had been coming off of oxys instead of methadone. My induction would have been so much easier. You will do fine. What you are putting youself through right now is going to be worse than the "event" itself. Good luck.
Wayne
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:36 AM   #6
ExOpiate
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thank you both. i am going to need all the support i can get. coming this far down on my own is a major victory for me - but unfortunately the others in my life think it is nothing. from 220 to 40!!!!? all on my lonesome - not speaking a negative word or having a bad mood to ruine other's day? i AM alone in this. i feel shame.
gonna try to figure out how to get to the chat - i think it will help me....and hopefully i can help others who have enjoyed sobriety for a while.

kindly, e
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:38 AM   #7
bam55
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exOpiate
These are real people here who have been where you are right now and today are happy ,healthy ,and in a safe comfortable recovery.You will soon join us.It really is quite simple and painless.Some take a few days to get stabalized,many feel great almost immeadiatly but either way we all agree it is a great place to be,in recovery with the help of Sub.
There is lots of work do to fully beat your addiction and Sub will do its part to give you some space ,WD and urge free,to work those things out.
Relax,easier said than done,you will do just fine.
Bill
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:50 AM   #8
imNOTconfused
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Ex,

Don't feel ashamed. Do people with asthma or diabetes feel shame? No.
You have an illness, not a character defect. Don't beat yourself up. I know what you mean about being alone in this. We have all been there. There are a lot of people here who will do what they can to help you, and share their experiences. As far as getting into chat, just click on the link to enter chat.

When do you start your bupe treatment? If its not for a few days then I would increase your oxy dose until you feel compfortable. Just make sure you are in WD when you go in.

Just relax. I know, easier said than done.

Take care.

Brent
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Unread 01-18-2007, 05:53 AM   #9
ExOpiate
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thank you brent - so funny you should say this - b/c i was thinking just the opposite....i would scrounge my way down to the least and then go in.

my time is wednesday - one week from now. i sooooooo hope for relief and stability from the caos. i have bags and bags and bags full of oxys 10,20,40 tens of thousands of dollars worth (not to mention the bags of percs)- but all i want is my health, sanity and stability. i tried to donate them to the World Health Organization - but never got an answer. it is ilegal to flush them i heard. i don't care - they don't tempt me - i have had them here forever. oh well - until wednesday...i will give all my meds to my doc and let him deal with it. lol - i hope he doesn't need a roto rootor to flush them. WHAT could he POSSIBLY do with all of that? WHY does it have to go to waste when there are so many who suffer out there and for leitimate reasons need them?????
What a F***ed up world we live in. Kindly, Me, e
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:46 AM   #10
snipes
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E....

You made the first huge step....to seek sub treatment for your addiction! Everything will get better from here. Just remember, to be in mild withdrawals before you take your sub medication. That is very important. The benefits of sub...You wont have to take pills every 2-4 hours or whatever your doing right now...Instead you will have a medication that most only have to dose ONE TIME in the morning. I have also experienced anti-depressant effects. Many seem to get this benefit also. Many have said that sub works better then ANY anti-depressant on the market. Dont be worried about your induction.. You will do fine...And I cant wait to hear about it! Good luck!

-Tim
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:58 AM   #11
Brett
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ExO,
One thing to consider,
The sub is stronger then your oxy addiction, once you get the sub in your system you will soon forget that oxy
good luck
Brett
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Unread 01-18-2007, 12:52 PM   #12
NancyB
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Hi ExO, Glad you came into chat last night. I hope you're feeling better about your decision to start.
Things will be fine.

Nancy
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Unread 01-18-2007, 05:20 PM   #13
nemo123
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Ex,
I can almost assure you that you will be pleasantly surprised at how good you're going to feel on the sub. It's like a miracle drug for most of us. Hang in there and good luck - you're going to do great!!
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Unread 01-18-2007, 09:31 PM   #14
wil
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ExO, I'm glad you're seeking info and are going to give subutex a try. As far as what to look forward to, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, it is very possible that sub can be the answer to the three main areas of your situation. Caution, this post may get rambling and too long but I'm going with it anyway. Certainly sub will take away the cravings for oxycodone while relieving or eliminating any withdrawal from it. Your pain situation could very well be taken care of with dosing sub more than once a day. This pain control area is sort of a hit or miss deal. Some, including myself, are getting total pain control from sub, others only partial control, and regrettably, there are some that sub does not deal with the pain. Likewise, the relief for those suffering from depression is also a hit or miss thing with the odds in your favor. Matter of fact, the odds are in your favor for sub to just about take care of all of it. I wish that for you. As far as folks around you understanding what it means to reduce or, God forbid, have to go into any degree of withdrawal, forget about it. I don't believe anyone not physically dependant on opiates will ever understand the degree of this discomfort, pain, ache, fear, or what have you that goes with this absolute dependence on a daily/almost hourly need for a drug. They only focus on our seeming mental desire to have the drug. So be it. On the practical side, is your Wednesday appt for induction or to discuss it with your psychiatrist? If it's to discuss, fine, he will probably inform you of a few things. If it's for induction I hope he went over the stopping DOC prior to coming in. In the days leading to induction you could try to reduce a little but don't put your self in any discomfort. It's only important to stop DOC and be in some discomfort in the hours prior to induction. If you're in sufficient wds when you take your 1st dose of sub everything will be miraculously OK. From my deal with oxycodone, I don't think your have to be in major, absolute full blown wds. I stopped the oxy about 7 PM one night, went to sleep a few hours later and thankfully slept to around 6am or so. I then waited as long as I could for dilated pupils and other signs of WD. Finally around 9AM I started taking 2 to 4 mg an hour till I got relief. Regretfully it took a few hours to reach the amount needed but usually you get relief fairly quick. One point I will make, I was snorting oxys which make them short acting. If you are taking your oxy whole as directed they are longer acting. A couple of days before induction I would change over to the short acting percocet or crush and carefully only take the oxy as short term needed until I quit about 14 to 18 hrs before seeing the sub doctor. Utmost and foremost about all the above is it is my experience and opinion only. Please do double check, modify and refine the opinions in it and hopefully you will come up with a very easy workable plan you will feel comfortable with. Only then will you be relieved of your dread, fear, and anxiousness about this deal. Stay calm, your going to be fine. All the best, Wil
PS Personally, I would not get rid of, dispose of, or dump my entire extra sh**. Wait a couple of weeks, stabilize on sub with a clear head with no anxious desperate or valiant vows to stop everything, and then make a decision. With a calm cool head you will then do the right thing and have no regrets. IMO, Wil
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:14 PM   #15
flier1
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My DR. advised me to flush all mine in the toliet, so I dont think it is against the law, but I do live in the country and we have a well so maybe there is a difference if you live in town.

Helen
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:29 PM   #16
bam55
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ExOpiate
Flush those suckers! There is no law against it,anywhere,anytime.Out of sight is the way to go.Your Doctor will not be able to give them to someone else anyway.Chain of possesion,how would he know where they had been.Flush,flush,flush!
Bill
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:49 PM   #17
gotoffmdone
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Getting the drug situation under control will allow you to work on the guilt and shame issue. But you are definitely not alone in that department. I was 30 years old before I got addicted. I thought since I had never succumbed to any addictions prior to pain pills, that I had all the willpower I needed to conquer anything that came my way. But then my addiction to a tiny little pill that was controlling and that I had no control over created in me an enourmous amount of shame. The things I resorted to sustain my addiction and to keep myself from being dope sick, created in me an immense amount of guilt. Those things, the guilt and shame do not go away during detox like wds do. It takes alot of work to forgive yourself and that work only begins with stopping the oxy use. I am trying to get to that point and have not made it there yet. The fact that YOU know within your own heart, even if no one else in your life sees it or gets it, just what an accomplishment this has been for you thus far with the lowering your oxy intake will help the shame because you do have something to be very proud of.

At 50 years of age most of my guilt and shame has been replaced with regrets and fear of the future as to where I go from here and how am I going to get my life back. I had 30 years of a very succesful life as far as career, social life and just plain old general sense of well being was concerned. Now I am stuck in the "if only's" and the "what if's" and the "woulda shoulda coulda's". Stopping the drug use is a goal, recovery is more like a journey.

But right now all you need to focus on is the stopping of the drug use. These other things like the shame and guilt will wait for you to find a resolution. I hope sooner, rather than later, you do find that inner peace we are all looking for and that some of us have found. I am not in that category as of yet but am still working on it.

Good luck to you and please let us know how you are doing, always.

Wayne
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Unread 01-18-2007, 11:58 PM   #18
NancyB
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Hi exO, this is the FAQ I was chatting with you about in chat.
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#70

The times are guidelines, you know best about your WDs. The doctor is recommending 24 hours because of the OxyContin taken as prescribed, not breaking the time release.

Please let me know if you have questions.

Nancy
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Unread 01-19-2007, 12:41 AM   #19
wil
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Nancy's post reminds me to emphasize or clear up something I posted about crushing oxys. It does make them shorter acting and preferable to long acting opiates coming out of your system prior to induction, however, and I'm sure you know this, it makes them more potent. Therefore, I repeat carefully do this if your not in the habit of this use. It would be better to achieve the shorter acting approach to stopping by going to your percocet to get you by a couple of day till quitting. Just a clarification and I still want to encourage you to be calm, relax and have all the best. Wil
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Unread 01-19-2007, 09:59 AM   #20
ExOpiate
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omg - i am unable to sleep due to tapering off. i have gotten so much info from all of you. THANK YOU. i also have sick dogs who can't sleep.
YES i am affraid and worry that i can make it through the induction process......never thought i was this far down the scale.
love e

i am so grateful for all the advice written above. i sincerely feel cared about. and mostly NOT ALONE. right now i am so depressed it is hard to even check my email or talk....too much efort. so this message of gratitude to all of you is my major undertaking of the day. no way to thank you. kindly e
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Unread 01-19-2007, 06:50 PM   #21
flier1
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Hang in there, you are not alone I promise, and you will make it thru the induction phase of this, will email you later

Helen
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Unread 01-19-2007, 09:04 PM   #22
momof4
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I start my sub on Monday and I'm scared to death. When should I stop my DOC? I dont know what to do!!! I have 4 kids and need to be ok for them but I need to be in WD right?
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Unread 01-19-2007, 09:06 PM   #23
NancyB
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Hi momof4 and welcome.
Please read through this FAQ:
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#70

The times are guidelines, you know best about your WDs. It also has a link to the Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale (COWS). One of the best ways to gauge your WDs is by checking your pupils in regular light. The larger they are, the further into WDs you are.

Please let me know if you have questions.

Nancy
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Unread 01-19-2007, 09:19 PM   #24
bam55
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momo
Welcome to THE place to be for great info and support.
Nancy is already on your case and that is a very good thing.
Don't worry about the WD's before induction.You need to be in slight WD's.If you sre using short acting opiates,not the time release o.c's swallowed whole(like who does that?)you should take your last dose 12-24 hours before induction.The COWS scale will be proof that you are in significant,adequate WD's but you do not need to be in full blown,painfull WD's.Doctors will error on the side of caution and suggest longer sometimes but 18 hours is sufficient.
Good luck,you are soon to be very pleased that you made this choice,promise.
Bill
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Unread 01-20-2007, 01:19 AM   #25
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As long as you are on short acting opioids, you realy only need about 4-6hrs. off, if any time is needed at all. The key is not to let the doctor give you to much suboxone, which he will usually do. You should start at 1mg. or less and go up from there. I'm not a doctor, but this is true, and is what I have experienced and what other experienced doctors have told me.

People will say I am being iresponsible, but I hate to see people stress over this precipitated withdrawal, which doesn't happen unless you practically OD on sub--which is what usually happens because doctors are taught to start at 4mg. The reason for this, I assume, is that doctor's goals are to give you enough to block other opiates, which is usually way more than you need to feel comfortable. IMO True, some may need this much, but there is no harm in starting lower.
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Unread 01-20-2007, 01:32 AM   #26
Broken4you
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God Speed ExOpiate! Amazingly, relief is just around the corner. One piece of advice that I would like to offer. Read! Read! Read! There are so many members here to support you and to help to educate you concerning everything to do with this treatment.

I can't believe how incredibly supportive everyone has been to me. It has made all of the difference in the world. Reading about so many others experiences helped me to understand and anticipate what I was going through. Be sure and check out the "patient stories" They will really encourage you.

There are two things to remember: 1) The boat won't sink and 2) the storm won't last forever.(author unknow) You are on your way to getting your life back and being free from the narcotics.

Blessings to you,
Bill
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Unread 01-20-2007, 01:33 AM   #27
Sub-Zero
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ExOpiate,
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by ryannnn65

People will say I am being iresponsible
Ryan is being irresponsible. He is taking his experience combined with an incomplete understanding of what causes precipitated withdrawal and ending up with a faulty conclusion. His advice often is opposite of what doctors, scientists, FDA, and most people on this board say. He means well but jumps to conclusions without all the facts.

You don't want to risk precipitated withdrawal, it is uncomfortable and unnecessary. To avoid it be sure you are in some withdrawal before you begin buprenorphine treatment, like everyone else is saying.

sub
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Unread 01-20-2007, 02:20 AM   #28
flier1
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Sub exactly right you need to be in at least 12 hours which I was and went on the sub really well but the Dr knows they do a point scale at least they did on me and if I didnt pass it he would not have started until he thought i was and he said everyone which there are 20 of us know all have been 12-16 hours, but IMO I wish some people would not scared the new ones who are now starting with facts that may not be right.
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Unread 01-20-2007, 06:03 AM   #29
OhioMike
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Ryan, I'm not going to say your irresponsible. I say your an idiot. This has been covered with you time and time again. Or maybe you simply get off on watching people suffer!

Ryan is wrong. Please read all of the educational material on this site and please listen to your doctor and work closely with them. Then you will be fine and you will see that this process is pretty simple.

Mike
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Unread 01-20-2007, 12:39 PM   #30
bam55
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by OhioMike

Then you will be fine and you will see that this process is pretty simple.

Mike
OMike
I think that the message that this process is "pretty simple" can not be emphasized enough and often gets lost.
Particularly people who are about to begin treatment can be overwhelmed with information and advise,I remember it well.
Your post was a great reminder to me that some of the best advise you gave me when I was new was "keep it simple and relax".
Something for all of us here to keep in mind.

Bill
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Unread 01-20-2007, 02:24 PM   #31
OhioMike
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Thank you Bill. It is easy for us to "over work" our recovery plans and that in it's self can cause us to fail. Also have fun! Take time to seek out new or old hobbies and enjoy life and recovery. From reading your posts Bill you clearly are doing just that and that helps me, as it always reminds me as well. Life goes on and we cannot let the bumps in the road hold us back, we must always keep moving forward.

Mike
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Unread 01-20-2007, 05:14 PM   #32
ExOpiate
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hi all: i am supposed to stop on tuesday mid morning and my doc apt is on wednesday at 9 for the script THEN i have to wait until 3PM to go to his office!!!!!!! how am i going to do this? i am supposed to call him at 6pm on tuesday evening - he gave me his cell phone number. OMG. I need strength. I will be a sick wreck by then.
I WILL need the strength of God to help me. I am stin in WD from the tapering! thanks for listening and your concern.

by the way - can i take a benzo to help take the edge off during w/d????
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Unread 01-20-2007, 08:51 PM   #33
Brett
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I wouldnt take anything during the withdraw time, just tough it out, help is around the next turn, you can do this, we all have been where you are going.

Brett
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Unread 01-20-2007, 09:38 PM   #34
OhioMike
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You know,I know as well as most here do what it feels like to lay on my cold basement floor, puking and s***ting myself and with enough jerks to bring down a mountain. Frankly putting myself into mild w/d to begin Sub was easy, damn easy. In fact, I welcomed it, as I knew what was about to change for me. Please, you only need to be into mild w/d if you are coming over from a short acting opiate. Please do not let anyone work you into worrying and please do not work yourself into that. It truly is not that bad at all. You just want to make your appointment at a time when you can get your w/d timing lined up with it. In other words, you don't want to begin your w/d at 4mp for an induction set for 4pm the next day and you don't want to get to your doctors and then have to wait an extra 2 hours before he induct you. For some the anxiety of that would be most bothering. Then again I put myself into 20 hours of w/d and did not find it all too bad. In fact, I was so looking forward to beginning treatment, I did not even feel a third of what I normally would have. In most cases I would have been down on the floor by then curled up and suffering. Ah the mind can play it's games.

Mike
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Unread 01-20-2007, 10:07 PM   #35
bam55
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ExOpiate
Thirty hours is what your looking at.Probably one uncomfortable night.When you consider the rest of your life not using your doc it is not a big deal.You will be fine.Take a couple hot baths Tuesday night,rent a movie to watch if you are not able to sleep and know that very soon you will feel fine ,probably better than fine.
Bill
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Unread 01-20-2007, 10:31 PM   #36
ExOpiate
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mike:
thank you for sharing your expereince. the scenario of me seeing the doctor in your worst experience is what i am doing. i see him at 3PM on wednesday.

BAM: you are RIGHT. BUT (there is always a BUTT!!!!) i feel i have been in mild/moderate w/d for so long that i dread going further down teh scale. right now i just want some relief and I WILL NOT give into taking more to make this easier.
i am stubborn. i should have made my screen name something about stubborn or sincere in what i set my mind to.
i will suffer this out until wednesday and HOPE that i can stay stabilized at about 2-4mg since my use is so comparatively low. it hurts all the same as if it were 2000mg - WD is WD! what a horrible misconception! one can't be "a little addicted" addicted is addicted! i didn't fool myself into thinking that i didn't take as much as some and follwed the instructions to the "T" that it would hurt any less - that my stomach and orafactory senses were any less effected. oh, no. i am as humble as they come.
thank you again. e
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