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Unread 05-31-2009, 06:19 PM   #51
jerryg
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1418,
Not surprising is it? Unfortunately.
Hope you are doing well.
Jerry
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Unread 06-03-2009, 12:38 PM   #52
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1418

Your husband may get worse before (if) he gets better. This is a big blow to him and how does he know how to cope? He drinks....

It's great to hear that your son is adapting well. Is this still the case?

Keep holding up your end of the bargain and provide him with a stable life. That's what he needs most. Update when you can!

SLynn
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Unread 06-04-2009, 05:39 PM   #53
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I just found out that my husband is seeing somebody else. Now it makes sense why he had wine at his house (he isn't a wine drinker)... I just hope he keeps her away from our son while our son gets adjusted to everything. He should - he has always been a good father.... and hopefully he will be happier with somebody else and then (hopefully) he won't say nasty things about me to our son when he is drinking.

At first when I heard this news, I was kind of upset and jealous. Not becuase I want to be with him, but because I want to be with somebody - but not now. I am not ready and my number one focus is my son. It was/is a strange feeling to feel "alone." I knew this was coming, but didn't realize it would be this soon.

At least I don't have worry as much regarding how my husband is coping with things - looks like he has moved on!! Now he can be somebody else's problem!!!!
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Unread 06-05-2009, 02:54 PM   #54
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Hi 1418-

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It seems that you are the one moving on, not your ex. You are doing the healthy approach with detaching from him and taking care of your son. He is trying to hide from his problem by "thinking" he can replace the life he had with you. He is not moving on, he is hiding and avoiding his issue by starting a new relationship. Don't second guess yourself or your decision. You are where you need to be right now. He is at a stand still. But you are right that your son does NOT need to deal with a new woman in his life. Have you thought about whether he should have custody at all? I know you said he is a good father, but if he is drinking while he is with your son and with another woman, I would re-think allowing my child to be with him. I know you already have a lot on your plate, but you may want to think about what is good for your son. Hang in there.

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Unread 06-10-2009, 09:01 PM   #55
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Hi 1418,

This is my guess, I think it is in the realm of possibility that he needs an enabler, I have seen this happen before. It still probably stings to hear that he is seeing someone regardless, but remember he has not changed.

Fielder and Slynn brought up some very valid points. You have come this far, I am sorry he is complicating things even more.

I do hope your son is doing well with this, I know you are working hard to provide stability. Keep moving forward - you will make it to the other side ! Hang in there. Take care, Carly
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Unread 06-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #56
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Hi Everyone,

Thank you for your comments. So far, so good. I was talking with my son last night and he asked how long we've been divorced. He has also asked me if I am going to date (I told him no, not right now - that I am focused on him right now). He asked me if his father was going to date, and I told him that I didn't know the answer but my guess it that yes, he will. I think it is good that he is talking about the situation and asking questions.

This summer will be "interesting". My husband is planning on watching our son all summer while doing his business (landscaping) on the side. Our son is all for this, because it in essences means hanging out at the pool with his friends. My attorney is working on a financial settlement becuase I will either need to take him to court and force him to get a job (which will upset my son) or he will need to sign the agreement. I suspect he will just sign it, but you never know.

As it relates to his drinking - I am apprehensive about our son spending so much time with him. Again, I'm not sure what to do about this. I think I will ask his mother to check in on him regularly and I'll do some "pop-ins" as well just to check on things.

I have to say, I am the happiest I have been in a LONG time. Spending time with my son is a blast - we have a ton of fun together. We laugh and laugh together - it is very healing.

Take care,
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Unread 06-11-2009, 11:59 PM   #57
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Hi 1418,

I am happy for you, I know this has been a long journey and I am so glad to hear how well everything is going, you deserve it - as does your son.
Your plan sounds feasible, I do hope your husb. cooperates . I think having the grandparents/family keep an eye on your son and your pop -ins - this summer may give you some added peace of mind.
I hope you and your son have a great summer. Thanks for keeping us posted, take care and be well : ) Carly
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Unread 06-13-2009, 07:23 AM   #58
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1418

I couldn't be happier that your son seems to be moving forward with such resilience. As I've said before, I recall when my parents split up and it was like a weight was lifted off me. I didn't realize how much stress it was giving me so i'm sure your son is feeling some of the same way. He's on a new adventure in some ways.

Kids know...they're smart. He may already know his father is dating. He may hear things, phone calls, etc...when you may not know he's listening. He'll be fine though and your plan sounds like it can work for the summer.

I'm sorry your husband has 'moved on' so quickly be he really hasn't moved on. He's right where he was before if not a few steps back.

I'm proud of how far you've come.

SLynn
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Unread 06-27-2009, 09:05 PM   #59
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Hi Everyone,

Just checking in. I continue to move down the path of divorce... I'm half way there (in terms of the mandatory waiting period before you can establish a final court date).

For those of you out there thinking about making a change in your life, you will know when it is time to make the change - and when you do - yes, it is scary and sometimes lonely, but I would much rather be alone than be in a relationship where I feel responsible for constantly watching over somebody (when will he be home, is he safe, etc.).

Anyway - wishing everyone a safe summer!!
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Unread 06-27-2009, 10:43 PM   #60
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1418, Good luck on your decision to divorce. As a drunk I always put the drink before my family. I ended up giving away a lot so I could continue to drink. Three divorces & putting my kids in dangerous sitiuations when they fled 2,500 miles away from me. I have been sober for a few years now & have made my amends. Some have accepted them, some have not. I did not lose anything. I gave it all away.
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Unread 06-29-2009, 06:33 PM   #61
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Hi 1418

Thanks for the update...I was thinking about you. While I'm sorry your situation is ending in divorce, I'm at least happy to see you going on with your life. You're making a new life and sometimes that's all you can do.

Keep going through your process here. It helps more people than you may know.

SLynn
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Unread 06-30-2009, 01:23 PM   #62
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Now that people are finding out that we have split up, I am hearing things about my husband that I wish somebody would have told me. As an example, I have heard that it is fairly well known that my husband would start his day by pouring out half of a full can of soda, and then filling it back up with alcohol. WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY TELL ME??? I suspect it is similar to when a person is having an affair - nobody wants to be the "bad guy" and tell the spouse, but I wish people would NOT ASSUME that the spouse knows. I suspected as much of him, but I wish somebody would have told me. It is so hard to tell when he has been drinking and when the drunk is telling you that YOU are the one that is paranoid and YOU are the one that is suspicious and YOU are the one (not them)...... it is tough to believe in yourself. It would have helped me and would have increased my confidence level if somebody would have shared that "well known fact" with me.

Thanks for listening.
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Unread 07-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #63
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1418,

The addicted individual creates a distortion field that tends to take advantage of people not wanting to "rat" on someone. It would have been nice if someone had told you. Then again you knew something was going on. It is sad and you have anger about it.
It may take a while to get over it, I hope you have an appropiate place to vent and sort it out.
I am sure many things about your husband's behavior will be revealed, and you will likely be angry by what you hear.
Sometimes you are left with lessons that help you in future relationships.
I hope you are grateful for you present situation and the effort you made to be where you are.
Sort meaning out of chaos and confusion. Anger is part of the process but rarely solves a problem. That's the challenge.
All the best,
Jerry
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Unread 07-06-2009, 07:05 AM   #64
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1418

I'm sorry you're hearing supporting information about your husband. You knew it was happening and can see where the outside reinforcement could have given you more courage to take care of things sooner. BUT on the other hand, you knew....you just had to move at your pace. You'll never really know how that may have changed things, if at all. Forgive those who chose to stay out of your 'family business'. I can see how they would choose that option, too.

I'm wondering if over time you'll hear more and more 'evidence' and if that's even beneficial to you at this point? Sometimes it's just more salt in your wounds. If your relationship broke up over infidelity, would you want to hear others bringing up other instances to you that you didn't know about? Just a thought I had. I guess that's just how I feel about it.....sometimes more information is just more information.

I hope you and your son continue to settle into your new life with some peace.

SLynn
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Unread 07-11-2009, 01:44 PM   #65
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Hi SLynn,

I think your point about if it was infidelity, would I want to hear about each and every instance (versus his drinking)... The answer is no - I wouldn't want to hear about it. Thanks for helping me put it into perspective.

Our son is doing pretty well, but I need to be careful. My soon to be ex (STBE) and I are getting along better than ever (the weight on my shoulders has been lifted) so our son sees us getting along and Im' sure he wishes that we would get back together. As an example, I stopped over at the house today to drop off some things for our son. My STBE asked me to stay, asked me over for dinner this evening, etc. I don't think that is such a good idea. Even my mil mentioned that she is concerned it is confusing for Luke.

My MIL has been fantastic. She is all about our son and making sure he is as happy as possible. I just love her for that (which I told her)...

For those of you dealing with wondering if you should leave or stay - you will know when it is time (took me ~ 7 years)... especially if you have kids - I think it may end up taking longer. You will know when you are ready, but I can't tell you how wonderful it is to decide that I am worth having a relationship with somebody who doesn't like to me/put booze ahead of me, etc..

Take care everyone - YOU ARE WORTH IT - whatever "IT" is. That could be going to counseling for yourself, it could be leaving - it could be as simple as not helping him hide the drinking. Baby steps are steps - and you ARE WORTH IT!

Take care,
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Unread 07-11-2009, 02:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
For those of you dealing with wondering if you should leave or stay - you will know when it is time (took me ~ 7 years)... especially if you have kids - I think it may end up taking longer. You will know when you are ready, but I can't tell you how wonderful it is to decide that I am worth having a relationship with somebody who doesn't like to me/put booze ahead of me, etc..

Take care everyone - YOU ARE WORTH IT - whatever "IT" is. That could be going to counseling for yourself, it could be leaving - it could be as simple as not helping him hide the drinking. Baby steps are steps - and you ARE WORTH IT!
Thank you, 1418.

This is well-timed for me. I think I've come to that point of saying "Get help or I'm gone, but I need to prepare myself emotionally for his response. I think I already know that he'll choose the alcohol, but it's the only option.

We're not married and we have no children together, so you would think it would be easier. Logistically and legally, maybe - but not emotionally. I have to get past the feeling that I'm throwing him to the wolves, even though they are his wolves.

My biggest concern is his kids (whom he sees alternate weekends). I can remove myself, but they can't - and the people around him turn a blind eye when he drinks around his kids.

Anyway - I don't want to monopoloze your thread (LoL - there's enough of this in my own thread ), but I want to say thanks for your comments.

Wishing you peace and happiness,
gf67
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Unread 07-12-2009, 04:10 PM   #67
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Hi 1418,

I am glad things are going well, especially with your son and that you and STBE are getting along. Thank you for keeping us updated, you have been through so much and made tough decisions, but the right decisons for you and your son.
Your posts are so helpful , esp. for those who are in similar situations. None of it is easy, but it helps to know you are not alone, that others have been down that path and survived it !
And so wise too.... : ) I love your quote : "Baby Steps are Steps and You are worth It ! "
I wish you well 1418, take care, Carly
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Unread 07-13-2009, 11:01 AM   #68
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I think I jinxed myself. Things got ugly this weekend. STBE called me on Sunday while I was out (boating) with friends. He DEMANDED to know who I was with, etc. He accused me of being a cheat/slut, said I am killing him/he never wanted this, I'm not spending enough time with our son (because I work during the day...) so all I do is pick him (our son) up and put him to bed, and more. He said this ALL IN THE PRESENCE OF OUR SON who was in the same room watching TV. I told my STBE that it is COMPLETELY unacceptable to have this conversation in the prescence of our son and that I was hanging up.

I ended up calling my MIL and she went down to the house to check on our son. She said he was okay - was watching tv, and my STBE was "resting" in bed. My guess is that he had been drinking (he usually isn't nasty but he was on this call) and he was sleeping it off.

Also this weekend, I caught my STBE doing a "drive by". My street doesn't go anywhere - it is one big U shape. As I was leaving to go grocery shopping, he was pulling in. I asked him what he was doing, he said he was going to a bar to meet his friend. I told him I was going grocery shopping... I left my phone (accidentally) at home when I was shopping for groceries - there were 8 missed calls from him within ~1.5 hours. I called him back and he was worried that I was angry with him. I told him that I didn't understand why he was checking up on me. He said he misses me and he drives by sometimes.

His behavior gives me the creeps, and I told him so. Maybe that was a mistake, but I'm not holding back. If he is acting creepy - I'm going to let him know. I now park in the underground parking and I don't get out of my car until the garage door is completely down. I was thinking about buying a house, but that is now on hold. I want the security of being in a building that requires a person to be buzzed in and where neighbors can hear me if I need help.

I am going to talk wtih my son (I have him starting tonight) and then determine if the two of us need to go to counseling or not.

The STBE's behavior again confirms for me that I made the right decision to get a divorce. My heart just aches for our son, but I am confident with the in-laws, my parents, and with me watching out for him (our son) and loving him, that he will be okay.
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Unread 07-13-2009, 04:07 PM   #69
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Hi 1418,

I hate that he did that.
You are moving on and STBE is stuck, by his own choice. It is unfortunate, he is miserable, and he is attempting to make you feel bad while enjoying your weekend, or even neglectful, he is grasping at straws, imo. I am thinking this is not acceptable, you should not have to deal with that while you are just out with friends. And It is none of bussiness, who you are with, especially when this was his time to spend with his son. I guess you should try to steer him towards focusing on the welfare of your son.

I am glad you are ensuring your safety, do whatever it takes, hopefully he will move on, but - worst case scenario... if he becomes more unstable, you need to have proof if you need to involve the authorities/courts.

Is his family still encouraging him to get help, I still hold out hope that he will one day get sick and tired of being miserable and want help, which would benefit everyone, esp. your son. But right now, I think you are doing your very best to make your son's life stable.

For what it is worth, I do believe that most children are resillient. When I worked for CPS, I was amazed at what children had been through,( things that would make you sick) but when removed from the situation, provided stability, counseling, and love, so many of them were able to overcome it and go on to live a happy life.
I know it is different when it is your own child, but imo , watch for signs, if he displays behavior that concerns you, seek help as to how best handle it.

I hope this week goes smoothly,also, glad you have an ally with your MIL !
Take care, Carly : )
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Unread 07-13-2009, 10:12 PM   #70
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1418, He is acting creepy. I hope it does not escalate. Carly O gave you some good advice. Keep your head held high. Good Luck, R. Lee
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Unread 07-16-2009, 06:25 AM   #71
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1418

I wondered if things were going too smoothly. Is he still with that girlfriend? I'm wondering if they broke up and he had time to obsess about you since his time may not be occupied. Just a thought since this seemed to happen out of the blue. Or maybe it's not out of the blue? Maybe he's been doing this all along and is just getting sloppy?? One can only guess....

Great idea to stay in the safe building with security. It's a horrible way to NEED to live but at least you have the option. His stability is certainly in question and you must take the appropriate steps.

I think counseling for you and your son is a good idea. I feel like any child going through a family crisis should have an outlet that's neutral. I'm not a child expert but as the child of a divorced family, I recall not knowing who to talk to if I was angry at parents because I didn't want that to breed hate in them because everything always did.

You're a smart girl. You're doing all the right things and you'll get through this. Keep your eyes and ears open, though.

SLynn
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Unread 07-16-2009, 09:47 AM   #72
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Hi Everyone,

I don't know if my STBE is still with his girlfriend or not. I don't think they are still together becuase he said something about being lonely/not having anybody. I wish he would start talking with her again.

I saw the STBE on Monday evening at my son's baseball game. He pretended like nothing ever happened, which is fine I guess.

Last night I saw my STBE at my son's baseball game (which lasted from 8-10:00pm)!! The ball park shuts off the lights shortly after the game leaving the park pitch black so I wanted to get to my car before they shut off the lights. I waited after the game, gave my son a huge hug/etc.. and then walked quickly to my car. My STBE caught up with us (because my son caught up to me while my STBE was packing up the ball equipment) and we were standing there together when the lights were shut off. He said some crappy things (thanks for saying hello, that is just cold, that is crap, "NICE") which I comletely ignored. I told my son I loved him and that I would see him tomorrow.

Then my STBE called me at 10:30 pm. He told me his feelings were hurt becuase I didn't say hello. I explained I was cold and I don't like when the lights are shut off - it had nothing to do with him. I can't remember what he said, but I basically ended the conversation. He was also calling to see if we could switch nights around this weekend iwth our son. I said yes.

So Saturday evening I have a bday party to go to for a friend turning the big 40! I would like to ask a male-friend to go along with me, but our city is rather small and I suspect this information will get back to my STBE.

My question for you is - do I do what I WANT to do and ask the friend to the party? I do I do what I "should" do and go alone? The "should" is in response to my temper tantrum throwing STBE. Part of me thinks I shouldn't ask anybody becuase it will just stir things up more (and I dono't want that for my son), but then part of me thinks I shouldn't let my STBE have any influence over what I do..

I would appreciate your input. THANK YOU!!!!!
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Unread 07-16-2009, 04:31 PM   #73
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Hmmmm...interesting dilemma.

My first thought is to live your life for you and not in fear of what HE may think or do. This time is coming no matter what. That being said....be prepared for the fall-out should he get upset about it.

I hope you have fun!!

SLynn
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Unread 07-19-2009, 11:33 PM   #74
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Hello,

I ended up going alone to the party and had a great time. I saw many people that i have not talked with in a long time. It also helped me define a little bit more as to who I am/what I want.

There were many very wealthy people at the party... as I watched and listened... Alcohol that is overused with anybody is just not very pretty. One woman fell down... at the end of the evening, many of the women were all huddled on a couch talking about some poor person.

I sound all high and mighty and I don't mean it. At one point in time (before I decided to get a divorce), I probably would have had too much to drink at the party. I am learning that i can have fun at events, by myself, have one or two beers (over 4 hours) and have a fantastic time!!!

It is a very empowering feeling.

I tried to stay away from my STBE this weekend. I was pretty successful. Friday evening he wanted me to come over for dinner, but his golfing went late so I was able to avoid him.

My attorney requested a court date from the judge... hopefully this will all be said and done in early September... Only ~1.5 more months!! Not that all that much will change, but it will be nice to legally close the chapter on our marriage.

Thanks for listening!
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Unread 07-20-2009, 10:42 PM   #75
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I think my STBE is drinking again. tonight at our son's baseball game, I could tell that he (STBE) was angry. He called me over because he wanted me to take his money and buy him as well as our son a few bottles of water. When I went over to him, I noticed his fly was open (actually there was a 5 inch piece of string/inside of his shorts hanging out). I told him that his fly was open and he said something like, "It's about time you looked there." or something like that.

After I gave him the water, he came over to sit near me. I could tell that he was angry/upset. He ended up slapping the back of my calf and walked away.

After the game, I waited for my STBE and son. We walked out to the cars together. My son asked if I could go to the house for dinner and I said no - that I have things I need to do tonight. Then Dave asked me a few minutes later adn I again told him no - I have thigns to do tonight. On my way home from the ball diamond I called my Mom and told her we were headed for another blow up.. that the tension was building.

My STBE called at about 8:30, very angry because he only has one pair of underwear for ou son (as if I am hoarding our son's undergarmets!)... i looked around and called the STBE back and told him i have 3 pairs - and then he gets all angry and demands to knwo where the other pairs are (as if what - I am sleeping all over the place with men, draggins my son with me an leaving our son's underwear at strange men's houses)?

Then the STBE starts saying how "this SUCKS" that he puts on a really good front, but he is struggling... who is thinking about him, who is thinking about his feelings, i'm just sitting in the stands having a high and mighty time while he is struggling and it SUCKS. I told him I really didn't know what to say and that I didn't think I could be the one to help him. He kidn of yelled, "yes you are" then he said something about not wanting me back, but that he feels discarded, that I am making him feel discarded like an old newspaper.

He ended the conversation by saying something about that's okay, he will be fine (martyr..)...

Does anybody have suggestions? I think he is tryiing to suck me back in and make me feel guilty/bad/whatever. I'm not sure what he can do to hurt me....he is a bit creepy. He really didn't need to call me this evening.. he wanted to know if I was home or not in my opinion.

I wish he would hit bottom already. Or hook up with his special friend or go do SOMETHING... other than focus all of his anger towards me.

I hope he doesn't hurt our son. I am scared that one of these days he is going to do somethign really stupid. I don't think he would hurt our son, but he may do something stupid enough to get himself killed....

I don't want to hold an intervention - at least not until the divorce is legal.... does anybody have any other thoughts on how to deal with a very angry and manipulative drunk?
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Unread 07-21-2009, 12:11 PM   #76
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Magic question....how to deal with a very angry and manipulative drunk. I think you find post after post of people all trying to find out the same thing. Some have tried and failed and some have had a little success. Trial and error, I would guess. Each person can react to things different on any given day....especially if they're drinking. What may work one day may not work the next.

I don't like how he's gone from passive to aggressive, though. I doesn't sit well with me at all. It's almost like he's addicted to you now. PLEASE be extra careful and cautious, ok? His behavior and drinking could escalate and you need to be ready for anything. I see you're already thinking along these lines and that's a good thing. I just want you to know I see red flags, too.

He's going to try anything....any tactic...to try and manipulate you. The fact that you're aware of it is a huge advantage. Don't fall victim to his ploys. Don't lead him into thinking something is there or is possible that isn't. Keep exposure at a minimum all the while keeping a relationship with he and your son. What a balance act, huh?

I wish I had magic answers for you, I really do. The only thing screaming in my head right now is your safety.

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Unread 07-21-2009, 01:24 PM   #77
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Hi SLynn,

Thanks for your comments. My gut is telling me to be very careful as well. You helped me identify what makes it so creepy - and that is the huge swings from super friendly and supportive to very angry and manipulative. And I agree - I think he is sitting at home all day, watching our son, and thinking about "us".

Only 3 more baseball games, which should help limit the interactions with the STBE. I wish he would go get help/find somebody to talk to.

Thanks,
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Unread 07-22-2009, 01:52 AM   #78
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Hi 1418,

Slynn is spot on. As you say too- trust your instincts, intuition.
One thing I did think of, you mentioned MIL is being supportive of you and your son, is this something you can confide to her? That you are concerned 1. that he is drinking again and imo- ( if had stopped drinking completely - you would know it.) 2. you are worried about his erratic behavior and how he is handling the split and the effect on your son.

Just something I wondered would it help or hinder - make him angrier ?
Be safe, Carly
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Unread 07-26-2009, 02:17 PM   #79
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Hi 1418,

Just checking in, I hope you had a peaceful weekend : ) Carly
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Unread 07-26-2009, 06:52 PM   #80
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Hi Carly,

Thanks for checking in on me!! I had a fantastic weekend. My STBE called me on Friday evening and asked me to come over for dinner (he had our son for the weekend). I told him no thank you, that I was going out to happy hour with friends from work... I haven't heard from my STBE since.

I had a fantastic time on Friday evening - just out with friends, but laughed and laughed!!!

We now have a court date (where the divorce will be final) in early September. I'm not sure how things will play out between now and then, but at least we have a light at the end of the tunnel in some respects.

I can't remember if I wrote this or not, but I ended up contacting my STBE's best friend. My STBE was calling me crying, and it was so difficult. So I reached out to his best friend who got in touch with him.

Based on the feedback from his best friend I will NOT be going over there for dinner. I will be staying AWAY from the house as much as possible. I think my STBE was reading into things, even though it was to show our son that we can still get along.

Only 2 more baseball games (Monday and Wed) of this week, so that should limit my interactions even more with my STBE (who is coaching the team).

I just heard about somebody who's STBE attacked her while dropping off the kids. I pray that doesn't happen to me, but I must say I am prepared for anything with him.

His father told my mother that he (FIL) is snooping all arouond the house in all of my STBE's hiding spots and that my STBE hasn't been drinking for at least 8 months. MY ANKLE!! If that is what they need to believe - so be it.

Again, THANK YOU for checking in on me. I really appreciate it.

Take care,
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Unread 07-28-2009, 10:00 AM   #81
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This up and down, happy/sad, furious/happy stuff is exhausting. Last night I went to our son's ball game. My parents were there, so were my in-laws. My MIL has been acting cold/distant the past 3 weeks or so, but I just figured it was part of the process. I continuted to say hello, etc.

My parents stopped over to say hello, and my MIL told my mother that she was very upset w/me and that she is going to talk with me about it - something about me saying things in the baseball stands and I don't know what else. My Mom told me that my MIL was "seething" and her voice was shaking.

I took our son home with me after the game (my STBE was giving me the silent treatment - except for when he said sarcastically, "you must have had a FUN weekend!").

Later that night when my son was in the shower, I called my MIL. I told her that I heard she was upset with me, and she said that she is but doesn't want to discuss over the phone. I asked if she woudl at least tell me why..... and then the flood gates opened:
-How can I do this to their grandson? She would never do such a thing. When she got married once you had kids that was it. Was it really that bad? Was I being beaten or anything?
-I lied to her because I told her the breakup was mutual (I didn't tell her that - her own son told her that). But her son still loves me so here she is telling people it was mutual but he still loves me.
-When her husband drank IT WAS HER FAULT because she wasn't at home to take care of him (yes - she honestly said this out loud).
-How can I leave somebody in the midst of this economically difficult times?
-They want to enjoy retirement but now they can't because of me.
-They don't knwo if they can go on their trip in August because they are so worried about their grandson and son.
-She doesn't believe in counseling, she doesn't think that it does anything.
-I talk in the stands like having an "ex" is cool or hip
-I lied to her when I told her that 'everything would be fine" but it wasn't... I shoudl have told her because she may have been able to do something (but yet, I shouldn't talk to my own mother abou tthings - I know this is my MIL's way of dealing with her anger - but gimme a break!)

My responses to her:
-I apologized if I said something in the stands that made it sound like splitting up was "hip". I told her that this sucks, but her son and I DO NOT MAKE EACH OTHER HAPPY. That we have tried for years, but it was't working. I told her my goal it to make sure everyone knows what a great father and good person my STBE is. (this silenced her for a few awkward moments)
-I told her (and this I wish I had not told her) that I aksed my STBE to do 4 things (counseling, alcohol assessment, deal with the failing business and find a new career) and he didn't want to do any of them AND I give him A TON OF CREDIT for having the guts to say no! To which she said it isn't guts it is being chicken, how we may be book smart but we aren't smart when it comes to relatinoships.
-I told her what my STBE needs right now is her unconditional love and support (I told her this at least 2 times). To which she replied that what he needs is a kick in the pants.
-I told her I am trying to be supportive to my STBE without leading him on, and that I can't really be the person to be there for him right now, it is too confusing and that is why I am now trying to stay away.
-When she pushed for details regarding my STBE's finances -I told her I had already betrayed him by sharing the 4 things I asked him to do with her - and I'm not going to discuss anymore. She can talk to him if she wanted to.
-My response to her when she was telling me that I am damaging our son was that I am counting on their love, as well as my parent's love and support to help our son get through this with as little damage as possible. She jumped on that and said something like, "see - you admit it." To which I responded that our son would have been impacted by an unhealthy marriage as well.

She kept on saying that she is just trying to understand it. Again, I know she is working through things, but this SUCKS.

I do have to say though - although this compeltely stinks right now - it is STILL worth it. I am still better off and I honestly believe our son will be as well, becuase I am so much happier not being married to my STBE.

I am so much more relaxed when it is just my son and I at my apartment, hanging out, and laughing.... I have to believe that those laughing moments will become more frequent and our relationship will be better off.

Thanks for listening. I"m exhausted right now.
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Unread 07-31-2009, 02:02 AM   #82
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Oh my 1418, what a conversation with MIL. I am proud of how you handled the conversation with MIL.
imo- Your responses were appropriate.
I thought she knew about his drinking and the family wanted him to get help?

Based on what she said, it seems she is old school, stay in the marriage no matter what. According to her: as long as he is not beating you - you should have stayed with him ? WOW !

I suspect STBE has been venting to MIL about your weekends, do not feel guilty, if you go back and read your posts - you tried everything in your power to make it work.
IMO- STBE and his family are in denial about the real issue- the alcohol issues, the requests were not unreasonable, but alcohol can be an obstacle to accomplising them. He has refused help at every turn, so what choice did you have? Continue being miserable?

Stand by your decisions, you have been so careful with each step, sometimes agonizing over each one. You are moving on, he will need to come to grips this.
He needs to find his own way. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I think this is his wake up call and adjustment period. Eventually, he has got to make peace with the divorce, but MIL is defending her son, you are getting the brunt of it, it is her son, however misplaced her loyality may be.

I hope the in laws will focus on your son, and what he needs, and his family gets educated about alc. and like you said suports him ( but not enable him ) copy info from the family links for them to read- when the time is right.

Hang in there, you deserve to be happy, at peace - keep pushing forward and take care, : ) carly
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Unread 08-03-2009, 06:44 AM   #83
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HI 1418

Seems like your whole family (on the ex's side) is going through the stages of break up. It also seems they are stuck in denial. What may have seemed like a good idea several weeks/months ago has changed probably because they see their son suffering and need to assign blame. Surely this can be THEIR son's fault, right?......

You know you're doing all the right things. You know you're doing what you feel is right. I believe in marriage but I don't believe in misery or abuse. A quality life should come first for you and your son. Primarily your son. Hopefully you STBE will have some quality at some point, too.

I hope you had a good weekend that's drama free.

SLynn
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Unread 08-07-2009, 05:34 PM   #84
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I don't like weekends. I feel like I am going to throw up. Tonight I have to go over to my STBE's house for our son's birthday party. My parents are not in town, so it will be my STBE, his parent's, me, and then 7 boys... This is crazy. I feel ill just thinking about going over there. My adrenaline is raging right now. Do alcoholics have ANY idea how much stress and anxiety they cause?

I have no idea if my STBE will have been drinking or not. My guess is that he will be sober because of all the other kids around and because of his parents. I am dreading finding a way to leave. I am going to pick up dinner (pizza), bring it to the house at 5:00, and then stay for an hour or two. I am planning on telling him I have a headache (which is true) and that I'm going home. I shouldn't have to stress out about leaving his house. I just know that he is going to yell at me about how I don't give enough to our son, how selfish I am, how he doesn't want this - that I'm the one who wants it.

The man has not admitted he has (or had) a drinking problem. It must be so much easier to blame me than to admit he has a problem and to deal with it. It is absolutely frightening to see how he can take things and twist them around to support his point of view. Is alcohol that powerful? Must be.

I am praying this won't be as bad as I think it is going to be, but I have a gut feeling tonight is going to be another blowup night.

This really stinks.
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Unread 08-07-2009, 08:31 PM   #85
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Quote:
The man has not admitted he has (or had) a drinking problem. It must be so much easier to blame me than to admit he has a problem and to deal with it. It is absolutely frightening to see how he can take things and twist them around to support his point of view. Is alcohol that powerful? Must be.
Yes, alcohol is that powerful! And NO, alcoholics do not realize how much stress and anxiety they cause because they are consumed with self pity or being the center of attention.The alcohol becomes a shield around them, where reality just bounces off.It is so damaging to the brain and body, and everyone else is left to deal with the mess this addiction has created.
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Unread 08-07-2009, 10:17 PM   #86
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1418, Your STBE has you where he wants you. His actions are driving you crazy. He is turning people you love against you. Don't react to him. Maybe you are going to have to limit the times you are around him even if it involves you son. Take this birthday party for your son. It is only natural for you to want to be there, but maybe it would be best to celebrate your sons birthday another time away from your STBE. Good luck, R. Lee
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Unread 08-07-2009, 10:44 PM   #87
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Thank you for your posts. I went to the bday party, and stayed for about 1.5 hours. My STBE kept on coming up from behind me and giving me hugs (creepy). I finally knew I had to leave. My son was outside playing with his 8 friends (it was pure chaos - in a very good/youthful and healthy way)... I didn't want to pull my son away from his friends just to say goodbye, so I said goodbye to my STBE and left. I texted my son two nice messages, saying i loved him and would touch base with him tomorrow.

I thought I smelled alcohol on my STBEs breath.. but wasn't sure until I got home. I knew I would be receiving an angry phone call. I just sat here, waiting for it, and sure enough it came. He called and wanted to knwo what I was doing. Then he said something about sitting home alone was better than hanging out "with us". Then he said something about, "do I repulse you that much?" I really didn't have anythign to say to him, and told him that I don't feel comfortable hanging out as his house, and that I felt I needed to leave. I told him I would see him in the morning (I need to drop off a few papers for my son so he can pick up his football equipment).

About 2 minutes later I received my next angry call. He started out the call by saying he was sorry, and then he said that he gets it that I'm not comfortable being there, but that it is our son's bday and how coudl I be so selfish? He said that "it is all about you, isn't it?" He started in on me that I am selfish and if I really cared about our son that I would have stayed no matter how uncomfortable I was. I told my STBE that I didn't want him to call me anymore unless it was an emergency and our son was hurt, and I hung up.

I am going to go over to the house early adn drop off the papers in the mail box.

I am so close to this... Am I being selfish? Or is he twisting it around back onto me? He says that I don't spend enough time wiht our son. I have our son 50% of the time, but i work outside the home and put in time at the office. My STBE is home "because he has to be there for our son"... but the reality is that nobody will do business with him anymore because he doesn't return phone calls..

Ug - I think he is under the influence of alcohol this evening. My game plan going forward it to stand outside while I wait/pick up our son and/or wait just inside the door. No more going in and talking. I am limiting our interactions significantly... but please tell me, is that going to hurt my son in anyway???? I do not say anything negative about my STBE, infront of my son or otherwise (except on this anonymous post)... but what I write here is the truth.

I am all twisted up. I would appreciate your insight. Thank you.
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Unread 08-07-2009, 11:18 PM   #88
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Hi 1418,

I think that when you first left he was in such denial that now he is waking up to what he lost or as Rlee says Gave away - YOU and the family.
Remember you did everything in your power, tried to get him help, he did not want it- his choice, these are his consequences to his actions.

Above all else be safe, you know him, if you think he is drinking, steer clear of him when possible. It sounds like he has major issues that need to be faced regardless of actively drinking or not. Can you make sure your concerns are adressed when you go to court . i.e have it part of your agreement ?

I also thought - Maybe he is going through his own grieving process... Denial,anger, bargaining, depression, - I pray he makes it to acceptance for everyone's sake. IMO he needs professional help.

You do what you need to keep you and your son safe. Sounds like a good plan to set boundaries, stick to them.

You are not being selfish, as someone who has been where he is- if you had given me an inch- I would have taken a mile and not thought twice about it. Not proud of it, but that is how destructive this disease is!

Try to have a good weekend, don't buy into the guilt, you have nothing to feel guilty for. Take care, Carly : )
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Unread 08-08-2009, 02:35 AM   #89
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Hi Carly

Thank you for your comments. It is hard sometimes to realize the power alcohol has. As somebody who (thank goodness) could take it or leave it - sometimes you just think to yourself, maybe the alcoholic is right (about whatever topic). I do know (and thanks for the reminder) that I did do lots for him to help him (went to the AODA counselor on my own twice to see if there was anything I could do, told his parents to get their support, offered to go to counseling with him, agonized over what to do when I found his hiding spots, sat up worried when he didn't come home - but then when he did come home - be in the bedroom scared because the lock on the door didn't work).... Yes, no matter what happens, it still is better now. I just pray that this isn't making things worse for our son.....

Is making it somebody else's fault part of the disease or is it a part of my particular STBE?

It is also ironic that he claims that I am the selfish one (something he has claimed before).... but yet he is the one that could have made changes to keep us together. I would have gone to counseling... he chose not to go/wouldn't go/refused to go. Isn't THAT selfish?

Again - i am wondering if turning his own traits around and projecting them onto me is part of the disease, or is it unique to my STBE?

I would appreciate insight from anybody who has thoughts. It is hard to see where the disease ends and where the person begins.
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Unread 08-08-2009, 07:21 AM   #90
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1418

No, your STBE is not the inventor of the blame game. It's a well orchestrated trait that comes with alcoholism or addiction in general. The brain is poisoned and twisted and what is rational to a sober person is much different to someone under the influence.

It hurts to hurt. If you get mad/angry and blame people, it seems to be easier to cope, for lack of a better word, on any given day. And if he blames you, then he doesn't have to blame himself.

I don't think your choices are selfish. I can see how other may see it that way BUT there comes a time when you have to do things to preserve yourself. Does that make any sense? Perhaps three birthdays from now you will be able to 'handle' spending more time there......but right now it's not what is good for you or what you need. There is a difference. You have to take care of you and the fact that you're doing that now has him in knots.

He will always try and poke you in your soft spots. BE AWARE OF THAT and take it for what it's worth.

SLynn
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Unread 08-08-2009, 09:45 AM   #91
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1418-

I think the best course of action is to have as little personal interaction with your STBE as possible.You made the decision to end the marriage and that is something that takes a great deal of courage.Being consistent is very important, and it seems you are doing just that.
Your son is surely torn.Is there any possibility of having total custody on a temporary basis? Until your husband gets help? The most important thing is your son's well being and living with an alcoholic is never good for a child.
As I go back and read your posts, it is so clear to me how sick the family is from alcoholism.From your MIL's comments to your confusion about decisions, alcoholism affects the entire family through codependency, guilt, and blame. I hope you are at least considering help for you and your son in the form of therapy.
Everything that comes out of your STBE's mouth is poisoned from the drinking.Keep in mind that alcohol causes brain damage, and the longer someone drinks- the more severe the damage becomes.
When I started to study addiction, my first class was split into 2 sections.One directly related to alcohol and one to all other drugs.The text books were set up the same.Even I was amazed that alcohol caused so much destruction to the human body.I don't think there is an area of the body it doesn't affect.I tell you this because it is important for you to understand how serious this is and how you are not to blame for what comes out of his mouth at any time.The more you know about the disease itself, the better.
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Unread 08-08-2009, 11:46 AM   #92
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Thank you both for your comments. I am going to look into finding a good therapist for my son (I already have one). I may try to educate myself more on what alcoholism does to a person's brain - but I have to be honest. Right now I am exhausted, and I don't care to research it. I greatly appreciate your comments and your willingness to educate me. I just feel like my STBE doesn'ot deserve any more time or attention (I'm angry)... and researching alcoholism is somethign I can't do right now.

I am going to focus on 4 things - my son, myself, and my job, and my spiritual self - that needs some TLC as well. The rest of it will have to take care of itself.

Thank you so much for your comments. I can't tell you how much I value this site and the input from others.

I hope everyone has a good weekend.
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Unread 08-08-2009, 12:30 PM   #93
R. Lee
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1418. My problem when I was drinking was I always put myself 1st. However I was able to manipulate my wants was ok with me. I learned through a support group that my drinking was just a symptom of my problem. My real problem was my thinking. I have to work on my thinking & actions every day. I have not had the urge to drink for a few years, but I have to watch my selfish thinking & action every day.
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Unread 08-09-2009, 08:06 AM   #94
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Thanks R. Lee for your comments. I am curious - do you see my actions as selfish?

I am also wondering - when you were drinking, did you think that everyone's actions revolved around you/your drinking? It seems my STBE interprets all of my actions based on HIM. As an example, when I left one of my son's baseball games to get home early, my STBE thought it was because I wanted to get away from him (and at that time we were getting along just fine). It wasn't - it was becuase I was exhuasted from work - that is why I wanted to leave the game.

Thanks again for your comments and perspective.
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Unread 08-09-2009, 08:47 AM   #95
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Hi 1418,

I just saw you post - I can tell you for me, that I was often very irrational when I was in throes of my addiction. That is how insidious this disease is. And yes, for me, I was the center of the universe.
Slynn is spot on about him pushing your buttons now. imo, for me, it was much easier to blame others for my unhappiness, I simply did not know how to cope with emotions, failures, life issues, I had to learn all of that as The damage was done, I had numbed myself for so very long. I did not know which way was up, wanted help but was not willing to do the work involved. Lashed out at those closest to me or isolated. After working on my issues, giving everyone a respite from me, I did rebuild those relationships, but it took a lot work.
I still struggle at times, life can certainly throw curve balls, but that is where a support system is important, whether it is a counselor, group etc... the substances may be outta my system but I still have to watch myself.

I think Rlee says - it is not only a drinking issue but a thinking issue, that sums it up, simply but accurately. imo
Don't fall into his trap, you have been held hostage by his disease in the past. You have tried your best.
I will always pray that he does get help for the sake of everyone, especially your son, but until that happens, as others have posted - limit your interaction, IMO - he has got to move on, at some point, probably when he realizes he cannot push your buttons and get the response he wants.

I hope this helps, Rlee hope you don't mind me jumping in here : ) it is all quiet in the house so I have to post when I can.

1418, be safe, keep pushing forward, I was glad to hear you say that your situation, even when STBE is acting out, is still better than when you were together. To me that says you made the right decision for yourself and your son. So, trust your instincts where he is concerned. Take care, carly : )
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Unread 08-09-2009, 08:49 PM   #96
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1418. No I do not think your actions are selfish. I was speaking from the alcoholic's side. Always putting themselves 1st. A lot of Alcoholic's hate themselves. They become paranoid thinking that everyone is out after them. They get the poor me's. Blaming everyone else for their downward spiral. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind & body.
Carly gave you some great information. Good luck, R. Lee
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Unread 08-10-2009, 10:47 AM   #97
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Thanks again for your insight. I greatly appreciate it. I was thinking about my comment that it is hard to tell where the person stops and disease starts. I now think that the two can't be separated. I think the disease is in his DNA and he and the disease are woven together - just like if a person had cancer - it is in their DNA. I still think my STBE and others with any disease (cancer, alcoholism, etc) can beat it... I worked for a biotech company that did amazing things with DNA in terms of diagnosing diseases... so I know that just because something is in your DNA it doesn't mean the disease will win. The disease CAN be beaten. It certainly isn't easy, but I believe it can be done.

Scientists are doing amazing things with DNA, not only in terms of diagnosis but also in terms of treatment. If a person attacks alcoholism with both the thinking aspect as well as the physical aspect, I beleive it can be treated and beaten into submission.

Thank you so much for your support.
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Unread 08-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #98
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So very true. I respect your feelings 100% . You have every right to feel anger about the situation and your focus being where it is currently is right on target.You have to take things one step at a time, when you are ready!
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Unread 08-10-2009, 03:46 PM   #99
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1418,
May I add. The peculiar thing about this "disease" is that it is a disease of behaviors and belief systems. As much as there is a genetic physiological component there is a way of thinking and lifestyle that must be addressed and changed. As much as science contributes significant aid in the treatment of addiction, most success stories attribute a personal transformation. That is a broad statement but in my experience it is a significant factor.
Interestingly enough, in my experience I have witnessed "miracles". Where people have arrived at this realization of the need to change almost out of the blue and unexpectedly. It humbles me when I have witnessed it in someone struggling with recovery. Someone who I had almost given up on!
Do what you must to care for yourself, no doubt in that. But always be prepared to witness a miracle. Seriously, you never know.
All the best,
Jerry
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Unread 08-10-2009, 07:52 PM   #100
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1414, We alcoholics can recover from alcoholism. We can never be cured. Alcohol is cunning, bafalling & powerful. It is always waiting for you to let your guard down. I keep it simple working on it 1 day at a time. I no longer worry about staying sober the rest of my life. I just worry about working my program 24 hours at a time.
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