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Unread 06-01-2010, 11:36 AM   #1
TIM
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Thumbs up Great video about addiction - Disease or choice -Everyone should watch this

Learning about addiction is complicated especially when just reading about it. It’s especially hard to get a loved one to educate themselves and realize that addiction isn’t simply a choice. Videos can be a big help. In the past we’ve recommended the HBO series and link to it at the bottom of the right sidebar on this page. Here’s another one by Dr. Kevin McCauley, who was addicted himself and wondered if addiction was really a disease or not. He explains both sides of the discussion and shows how he arrived at his conclusion. It is a great video and builds on the HBO series and what we discuss here, but most importantly its another way to get through to a loved one or supporter who doesn’t understand addiction as well as you’d like them to.

I recommend everyone watch it. It is 7 short videos, only a few minutes each: http://www.youtube.com/user/kevintmc.../0/ekDFv7TTZ4I

Tim
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Unread 07-23-2010, 02:45 PM   #2
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bump- a great video to watch over the weekend.
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Unread 07-23-2010, 02:59 PM   #3
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Very interesting videos...thanks alot. It is obvious addiction is a disease. If it was a choice, we'd be able to choose to "stop"..
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Unread 07-23-2010, 05:23 PM   #4
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Have you ever seen that guy on TV peddling his book on curing addiction. He says he does not believe in the disease concept. He goes on to say that substance abuse is a symptom of underlying causes and that he takes care of the root causes. But then he says a person can never use again. Seems like a contradiction. If the root causes are taken care of and addiction is not a disease why can't a person use again, in moderation.

Is addiction a disease. One thing that used to cause me to debate the issue in my own mind was being told I did not become addicted overnight so I cannot get well overnight. It made it sound as if I had to work at becoming addicted and, but for my choosing to take pills, addiction would have never happened. Lots of diseases start with lifestyle choices. Too much sugar leads to diabetes which leads to chronic kidney disease. Too much tobacco leads to many diseases. Too much fried food leads to clogged arteries and heart disease.

Is addiction a disease. To be honest, in my own life at this point, it matters little. Thankfully recovery is a choice( albeit not an easy one at times ) and that matters greatly.

wayne
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Unread 07-23-2010, 05:31 PM   #5
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Well said Wayne.
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Unread 05-23-2011, 04:25 PM   #6
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bump
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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:20 AM   #7
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I realize this will open up a whole new can of worms, but I like discussion, so I'll throw it out there. Addiction is not a disease. Substance use is not an involuntary behavior. The adaptive pathology underlying the addictive process is analogous to other learned behaviors; the only major difference is the level of social tolerance toward the given behavior, and the practical impact of that behavior on a subjects life. I love it when those in the mainstream treatment industry present the infamous "brain scans"; as if images of the brain activity associated with a particular behavior is proof of a "disease" state.

Addiction is a learned and reinforced behavior, which can be un-learned and un-reinforced by the same biological means that it originally developed. To claim that addiction is a life-long "illness" is to deny the very concept of neuroplasticity which proponents of the disease model rely upon for their silly theory (simply put, the disease model is self-contradicting). I'm not sure how anyone with a solid understanding the inner workings of the brain can debate this, unless they're simply playing a game of semantics with the terms "disease" and "illness"...

Anyone looking for some practical, not to mention useful, wisdom in approaching their addiction should check out the tons of literature available from Stanton Peele, Jeffrey Schaler, Thomas Szasz, and Gene Heyman..
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Unread 04-27-2012, 11:22 AM   #8
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Default understanding addiction as a disease

Quote:
Originally Posted by lespaulpower View Post
I realize this will open up a whole new can of worms, but I like discussion, so I'll throw it out there. Addiction is not a disease. Substance use is not an involuntary behavior. The adaptive pathology underlying the addictive process is analogous to other learned behaviors; the only major difference is the level of social tolerance toward the given behavior, and the practical impact of that behavior on a subjects life. I love it when those in the mainstream treatment industry present the infamous "brain scans"; as if images of the brain activity associated with a particular behavior is proof of a "disease" state.

Addiction is a learned and reinforced behavior, which can be un-learned and un-reinforced by the same biological means that it originally developed. To claim that addiction is a life-long "illness" is to deny the very concept of neuroplasticity which proponents of the disease model rely upon for their silly theory (simply put, the disease model is self-contradicting). I'm not sure how anyone with a solid understanding the inner workings of the brain can debate this, unless they're simply playing a game of semantics with the terms "disease" and "illness"...

Anyone looking for some practical, not to mention useful, wisdom in approaching their addiction should check out the tons of literature available from Stanton Peele, Jeffrey Schaler, Thomas Szasz, and Gene Heyman..

You make good points and I wish more people studied the condition as thoroughly as you have, but the changes to the brain that you mention is the disease rather than proof it’s not. I think we have more common ground than you think and really it comes down to what is the definition of the term disease. Consider this; first let’s look at disease; dis- ease – the opposite of ease, a state of not being in ease- broadly put any condition that could put the body out of a state of ease can be called disease. Although we commonly think of disease as contagions and recognizable physical aberrations, trauma such as a broken arm would fit the broad definition. As would brain abnormalities or malfunctions such as depression, bipolar, PTSD, schizophrenia, or Alzheimer’s.

You are correct in that addiction is in part a learned behavior and for it not for the individual’s choices and actions no one is born addicted or destined to become addicted, or somehow catches addiction. We also cannot ignore the science that shows genetic predispositions that make some people more susceptible to addiction. These consist of genetic differences within the brain that, separate from environmental influences, greatly increase the odds of someone becoming addicted. These are physical differences in the brain.

Whether someone possesses the genetic predisposition or not and has learned or has conditioned themselves into addictive behavior, the brain pathways they created, that are responsible for the cravings and compulsive behavior is not representative of a body in ease. It is these changes in the brain, the ones you point out resulting from reinforced conditioning, different from someone not addicted, which influences behavior in a negative way, that is the disease. Physical changes to the brain, regardless of the cause, that affect the person in an unhealthy way can be called disease. Again, I prefer the phrase “medical condition” because of the reasons stated and peoples’ narrowed definition of the term disease.

Some people misinterpret what is meant by disease and use it as an excuse to absolve themselves of any responsibility for addiction’s development, their actions while addicted, and ongoing and future actions to resolve the problem. This is offensive to people hurt by addiction or those who have made significant sacrifices to overcome or cope with it. The first reaction is a visceral response to the notion of addiction as a disease and don’t take the time to understand what was originally intended with the disease designation.
“…Addiction is a learned and reinforced behavior, which can be un-learned and un-reinforced by the same biological means that it originally developed…” –lespaulpower
Yes, this is basis for recovery, and incidentally, why detox treatments don’t work. Stated differently, recovery is a deliberate reconditioning effort, which effectively undoes the changes to the brain caused by repeated and reinforced unhealthy behaviors. The reconditioning effort consists of learning new healthy patterns of behavior, avoiding behaviors associated with active addiction, and gaining experience with these new patterns effectively rewiring the brain back closer to normal. Buprenorphine stops cravings and withdrawal allowing the person to engage in this effort. But if someone does nothing but take the medication they are doing little to change burned in behaviors and thus little to recover. Essentially that person would be simply pausing the addiction until the medication ends. The disease is the collection of abnormal brain adaptations, this is not contradictory to what you are asserting.

As to the lifelong part; Unlearning something is not always possible. Imagine trying to unlearn how to ride a bike, or play a musical instrument. People with severe long-term and deeply ingrained brain adaptations may never be able to undo or unlearn enough to remain both addiction-free and medication-free. The constant cravings resulting from the remaining brain adaptations would either lead to relapse or the need for lifelong medication. Current science believes this is the minority and most people can achieve sustained addiction remission without lifelong medication.

I think we have more areas of agreement than not with the main contention being how the term disease has been misused by some as an excuse distorting the true meaning. We agree that the fundamental problem (call it what you will) is the abnormal brain adaptations which now negatively influences behavior by causing severe cravings. We also agree that treatment of the problem largely consists of a reconditioning effort. What matters most is that people understand that recovery from addiction requires a deliberate effort to alter patterns of behavior, not to simply avoid drugs.

Please take this in the spirit of healthy debate not argument,
Tim
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. Voluntary Disclosure: Timothy L. is the President of The National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine treatment. (NAABT.org) The views and opinions of Timothy L., or any poster, are not necessarily the views of AddictionSurvivors.org. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider Any information you read here should only serve to inspire you to investigate further with credible, verifiable referenced sources or your doctor.
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Unread 06-05-2012, 10:22 PM   #9
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Wow really good wish the world would view this...
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Unread 06-06-2012, 07:47 AM   #10
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http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org...-a-disease.htm
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/162933.php
http://dionysus.psych.wisc.edu/lit/A...reekM2005a.pdf

Addiction sure isn't a choice for most, these video's should be burned!

One could say addiction is a choice to cure a disease, if not a disease on its own. To me this seems a better cover for the package.

Read the first page of www.opiods.com , this might give you another/ better perspective. And see how subs, as a partial mu-agonist and kappa-antagonist, might ease underlying causes/reasons for our drug seeking behavior and/or our opiate addiction (beside gene-defects and/or 'bad genes' of course):

More controversially, adding customised opioids, enkephalinase-inhibitors and kappa-antagonists to our therapeutic armamentarium may prove critical to boosting response- and remission-rates towards 100% in the decades ahead. Crudely, whereas dopamine mediates "wanting", mu opioid agonists mediate "liking". Both systems can be fruitfully enhanced. Depressive and dysthymic people often suffer from a dysfunctional opioid system and anhedonia - an incapacity to experience pleasure. Sometimes orthodox "antidepressants" may even make them feel worse. Yet controlled clinical trials of designer narcotics for refractory and/or melancholic depression, let alone their use by "normal" people with "ordinary" mood-disorders, are not imminent.

Some of us choose to ease mental discomfort (disease or not) with an addictive substance. There's nothing wrong with that when one chooses the right substances and knows how to deal with them.
Many of you might choose to stay on subs for the rest of their life because they might find out that it deals with some of their problems and keeps them from relapsing.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #11
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I don't understand stuff like this. I quit cold turkey, from a super high does--because I chose to do so. No doctors, no rehabs, just me and my power to choose. I haven't relapsed and I don't plan on it. How is it not a choice if I chose not to do it and succeeded?

Not trying to be rude, it just genuinely confuses me. I believe it's a choice, just like obesity is a choice. Granted, it's really hard to make the right choice--if it was a disease, wouldn't it stand to reason that no one would EVER quit? Because you're basically saying people can't choose to quit--yet people choose to quit literally ever day--and a lot of them make it.

You can make the choice to not eat that cheese burger, and you can make the choice to not do drugs. I did. What would you say to someone like me?
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Unread 06-07-2012, 02:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIM View Post
You make good points and I wish more people studied the condition as thoroughly as you have, but the changes to the brain that you mention is the disease rather than proof it’s not. I think we have more common ground than you think and really it comes down to what is the definition of the term disease. Consider this; first let’s look at disease; dis- ease – the opposite of ease, a state of not being in ease- broadly put any condition that could put the body out of a state of ease can be called disease. Although we commonly think of disease as contagions and recognizable physical aberrations, trauma such as a broken arm would fit the broad definition. As would brain abnormalities or malfunctions such as depression, bipolar, PTSD, schizophrenia, or Alzheimer’s.

You are correct in that addiction is in part a learned behavior and for it not for the individual’s choices and actions no one is born addicted or destined to become addicted, or somehow catches addiction. We also cannot ignore the science that shows genetic predispositions that make some people more susceptible to addiction. These consist of genetic differences within the brain that, separate from environmental influences, greatly increase the odds of someone becoming addicted. These are physical differences in the brain.

Whether someone possesses the genetic predisposition or not and has learned or has conditioned themselves into addictive behavior, the brain pathways they created, that are responsible for the cravings and compulsive behavior is not representative of a body in ease. It is these changes in the brain, the ones you point out resulting from reinforced conditioning, different from someone not addicted, which influences behavior in a negative way, that is the disease. Physical changes to the brain, regardless of the cause, that affect the person in an unhealthy way can be called disease. Again, I prefer the phrase “medical condition” because of the reasons stated and peoples’ narrowed definition of the term disease.

Some people misinterpret what is meant by disease and use it as an excuse to absolve themselves of any responsibility for addiction’s development, their actions while addicted, and ongoing and future actions to resolve the problem. This is offensive to people hurt by addiction or those who have made significant sacrifices to overcome or cope with it. The first reaction is a visceral response to the notion of addiction as a disease and don’t take the time to understand what was originally intended with the disease designation.
“…Addiction is a learned and reinforced behavior, which can be un-learned and un-reinforced by the same biological means that it originally developed…” –lespaulpower
Yes, this is basis for recovery, and incidentally, why detox treatments don’t work. Stated differently, recovery is a deliberate reconditioning effort, which effectively undoes the changes to the brain caused by repeated and reinforced unhealthy behaviors. The reconditioning effort consists of learning new healthy patterns of behavior, avoiding behaviors associated with active addiction, and gaining experience with these new patterns effectively rewiring the brain back closer to normal. Buprenorphine stops cravings and withdrawal allowing the person to engage in this effort. But if someone does nothing but take the medication they are doing little to change burned in behaviors and thus little to recover. Essentially that person would be simply pausing the addiction until the medication ends. The disease is the collection of abnormal brain adaptations, this is not contradictory to what you are asserting.

As to the lifelong part; Unlearning something is not always possible. Imagine trying to unlearn how to ride a bike, or play a musical instrument. People with severe long-term and deeply ingrained brain adaptations may never be able to undo or unlearn enough to remain both addiction-free and medication-free. The constant cravings resulting from the remaining brain adaptations would either lead to relapse or the need for lifelong medication. Current science believes this is the minority and most people can achieve sustained addiction remission without lifelong medication.

I think we have more areas of agreement than not with the main contention being how the term disease has been misused by some as an excuse distorting the true meaning. We agree that the fundamental problem (call it what you will) is the abnormal brain adaptations which now negatively influences behavior by causing severe cravings. We also agree that treatment of the problem largely consists of a reconditioning effort. What matters most is that people understand that recovery from addiction requires a deliberate effort to alter patterns of behavior, not to simply avoid drugs.

Please take this in the spirit of healthy debate not argument,
Tim
This cleared a LOT up for me! Great freaking post. I've always had a huge problem with people calling addiction a "disease," especially once I was able to quit cold turkey and live to tell the tale! I had concrete proof to reinforce the idea that it was a choice.

The way you explain it makes a lot of sense, and in a way, I agree. However, I'll explain my biggest sticking point.

"Some people misinterpret what is meant by disease and use it as an excuse to absolve themselves of any responsibility for addiction’s development, their actions while addicted, and ongoing and future actions to resolve the problem. This is offensive to people hurt by addiction or those who have made significant sacrifices to overcome or cope with it."

This, a million times this. That bold paragraph is why I've always fought against calling addiction a disease. It is literally the biggest, most crippling scapegoat on the planet. You have no idea how many rabidly addicted friends I've had tell me, "Oh, it's just a disease--I can't help it!" It makes me sick, but mostly it makes me sad! I believe giving it the distinction of "disease" really lets people off the hook--it's just like calling obesity a disease--it just lets you off the hook to gorge and not feel guilty about it. Hey, I've got an idea... stop eating to many cheese burgers! I know that seems rude, but it's the honest truth. Most addicts just run with this knowledge, and use it as an excuse to keep right on abusing drugs--and not feeling guilty about it to boot!

I guess I would now ask a follow up question: Do you think addiction being medically understood as a disease does more to help or hurt most addicts? Because I think it is roundly and undoubtedly hurting addicts. I think it is painfully obvious that looking at it as anything other than a choice is going to be detrimental to someone that is trying to quit. I can honestly say, the knowledge that this was a disease often made me feel hopeless like, "If this is a disease, I'm never going to be rid of it!" In the disease scenario, I feel powerless; In the choice scenario, I feel totally empowered. What would you say to someone like me? How would you defend the disease hypothesis? (I'm not saying it's wrong, just that's it can be very detrimental, especially to addicts like me!)

It kind of ties into the whole reason I hate the 12-step program. The fact that the first step is "admitting you're powerless over the drug," literally cracks me up. Isn't that the last thing you'd ever want to admit? Like I said, I recently quit Suboxone at a 24 mg a day dose, cold turkey, after taking it for 2 years, following a 3 year intravenous-heroin addiction. Yeah, cold turkey. I was sick for almost 60 days! I didn't go to rehab, or even see a doctor. You know what the first step in MY program was? Admitting the drug is powerless over ME! That step literally sealed the deal for me. Once I understood that it was indeed a choice, that my sobriety was in my, and only my, hands, it really empowered me to beat it. It was like a moment of clarity... "You're in control of your body. It's time to be a better door man. This is all on you. You have no one to blame if you fail, and conversely, no one to steal your glory if you succeed!" I think most addicts are looking for someone else to solve their problems--it's why were all so addicted to forums like these--it's why people are so addicted to going to rehab in general.

It was like a light-bulb moment--and I feel the 12-step program, of thinking about addiction as a disease, had denied me that will-to-power for a long time. And I resent it. There should at least be another, competing program, for people like me.

Also, I'm an atheist, so I had huge, huge qualms with the "find a higher power" step as well. (I know you don't have to pick "God," but it's still really implied. Like, I can pick Nature, or Love, but how is nature or love going to solve my problem? That's just silly.)

Also, lastly, I noticed you mentioned other diseases: As would brain abnormalities or malfunctions such as depression, bipolar, PTSD, schizophrenia, or Alzheimer’s. For all of these diseases, it would be highly recommended you go see a doctor immediately. But here's the kicker: Addiction seems like one of the only diseases you can cure without ANY medical knowledge of any kind--no doctors, no hospitals, no experts. I did it. (Not that I'm cured, but I'm on the road to recovery. And that's not to say you don't need support, you do, you just don't need doctors or hospitals or "experts.") I often say to my friends, "If it is a disease, I'm really thankful to have one I that I don't need any medical knowledge to combat. I can literally sit around all day, play video-games, write about my addiction, and be cured--so long as I don't ingest any drugs."

That's a pretty sweet disease to have, in the grand scheme of diseases, if you ask me.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 05:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellennn View Post
I don't understand stuff like this. I quit cold turkey, from a super high does--because I chose to do so. No doctors, no rehabs, just me and my power to choose. I haven't relapsed and I don't plan on it. How is it not a choice if I chose not to do it and succeeded?

Not trying to be rude, it just genuinely confuses me. I believe it's a choice, just like obesity is a choice. Granted, it's really hard to make the right choice--if it was a disease, wouldn't it stand to reason that no one would EVER quit? Because you're basically saying people can't choose to quit--yet people choose to quit literally ever day--and a lot of them make it.

You can make the choice to not eat that cheese burger, and you can make the choice to not do drugs. I did. What would you say to someone like me?
People can have food addictions, just like drug addictions. Its the dopamine release that the brain has, whether it be any sort of reward. Food, sex, gambling, drugs...all can become addictions.
I believe addiction is a disease, and while you are in recovery it is considered that the disease is in remission. Just like you can have cancer, but if its treated and your lucky enough to rid your body of active cells, you are in remission from cancer as well.
You are one of the fortunate ones, having been an IV heroin user for 3 years. Only 1% of heroin addicts stay away from it for life without any treatment. Some people say the hard part isnt getting "clean"....its staying "clean".
I would say in your case stopping suboxone at 24mg, and not relasping is almost a miracle, you should be very proud(and maybe even believe there IS a God), all I can say is I wish you continued strength on your journey. best wishes, Deanna
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #14
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People can have food addictions, just like drug addictions. Its the dopamine release that the brain has, whether it be any sort of reward. Food, sex, gambling, drugs...all can become addictions.
I believe addiction is a disease, and while you are in recovery it is considered that the disease is in remission. Just like you can have cancer, but if its treated and your lucky enough to rid your body of active cells, you are in remission from cancer as well.
You are one of the fortunate ones, having been an IV heroin user for 3 years. Only 1% of heroin addicts stay away from it for life without any treatment. Some people say the hard part isnt getting "clean"....its staying "clean".
I would say in your case stopping suboxone at 24mg, and not relasping is almost a miracle, you should be very proud(and maybe even believe there IS a God), all I can say is I wish you continued strength on your journey. best wishes, Deanna
I really, really hope you take this in a good light. You recently posted in my thread, and it meant a lot to me. I am NOT trying to be mean, or claim I'm smarter than ANYONE else. I am in no way trained in the neurological repercussions of addiction. I'm simply an addict, and that's what I base my opinions on--personal experience.

That being said, I love debating, and this subject is close to my heart, so I'm going to refute what I can as polite as I can.

To me, just because you can become addicted to something, does not make it a disease. I always bring up love, because I think it's the best example of why this thinking in flawed. The experience of love is caused by excessive dopamine production. When you're in a prolonuged relationship with someone you really love, you will have a prolonged period of slight elevations in your dopamine levels. When this person leaves, you stop producing as much dopamine... and thus you get a feeling of sadness. I feel like it fits all of your parameters: you can become addicted to it, and it effects you on a neurological level. It even functions the same. You constantly run back to toxic relationships compulsively, even when you know they will be harmful. By your definition, I think you could classify love as a disease--even though no one does.

I just don't think it's so cut and dry as: addiction = disease.

People often misconscrew what I mean when I state I don't think addiction is a disease. They instantly jump to the conclusion that I must think it's "easy" to quit. Quite the contrary. It isn't! It's the hardest thing I've ever, ever, ever, ever, ever done. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still a choice. My grandmother didn't choose to get Alzehimers, my brother didn't choose to get Schizophrenia--I chose to do drugs! To me, you can't choose a disease, a disease chooses you. That's just how they work in my medically illiterate brain. But, like I said before, I'm no expert. In fact, the way you guys explain it makes sense medically, but I don't see how you couldn't then say that love is a disease, or working out is a disease.

I just feel like calling it a disease gives it too much power. I know I'm probably medically wrong, but I feel like it's a very unhealthy way to look at it. It's the most blatant form of scapegoating there is, in my opinion.

Lastly, this is something I wrote: (and I know you have already read it, but most haven't, so I'll post it anyway)

But it's not all good. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, the longer I've been clean, the more I have what I believe people call "cravings." And I only say this to warn people. It is very tempting, once you feel 100% better, to use again. You tell yourself, "I'll just do it this once, and everything will be fine!" I don't want that to scare you, I'm just being honest, so people know what to expect. It's not just the physical withdrawals, that's only the beginning. It's a prolonged battle. But it's one I've grown increasingly comfortable fighting, and It's honestly not something I really worry about anymore. I have cravings and then just giggle to myself and think, "Oh, you silly brain. If I listened to you and your short sighted compulsions all the time I'd be dead in a ditch somewhere."

I'm well, well aware the hardest part is staying clean, so I could still fail. I could still be wrong. My will power could lose out and I could relapse. But this frustrates me. Why? Because when does my opinion count? Should I just not contribute until I've been clean a year? Two? Where does the line get drawn, where does my experiene start becoming credible? I know it's only been 114 days, but man, I'm doing it! I just wish that counted for something. I feel like I'm not counted in the conversation until enough time has passed, until my sobriety has somehow been legitimized--and that's frustrating. It's an unfair point that I can't refute, except by waiting.

Well, that's it. I love you Deanne. I love all the mods of all these forums because what you guys do is freaking awesome. As someone that was wholly taken advantage of by doctors, it's great what you guys do for the addicted populace. I've gotten more good advice through forums than I ever did from PhD's.

And, to be honest with you, about the God thing... It made it all the sweeter to make it on my own. I literally had no magical being I could call upon for help when I felt the worst. I had my willpower exclusively. It made the success all the more rewarding knowing that it was something I acquired through my own indomitable spirit. I didn't have to share that victory with anyone. It's the same thing I think when someone posts on Facebook: "Just landed safely in New York, thank God!" My first thought is... shouldn't you thank the pilot first?

Regardless, I don't debate religion anymore. It hurts feelings and it's not something I'm really into anymore. As much as I wish I could confidently express what I believe and why I believe it--I don't like stepping on toes.
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Unread 06-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #15
kellennn
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Also, I know people get all worried when I say I'm doing this with "no medical help of any kind." It kind of invites the thought of: Oh, he'll relapse, he's not keeping himself accountable.

Just so you know, I consider stuff like this my prolonged therapy. I post on addiction forums incessantly, and I feel like it functions in the exact same way as NA. It allows me to air my grievances, be reminded what it's like to be an addict, to keep myself accountable, and to witness to other addicts.

This is my therapy.
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Unread 06-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #16
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I totally appreciate your response, and in no way take it offensively. As a matter of fact, I like a good debate because it helps me see another persons perspective. I get what you are saying, the whole addiction=disease thing....I just think you can debate that whole subject forever. I dont personally think Love can be in that category though. You fall in love and yes, its a dopamine rush for a while, and you always feel great, but you cant put it into that category, because the only way it becomes an addiction is if you do the whole "Fatal Attraction" thing on someone. Addiction is compulsive behaviors despite negative consequences.
But anyways, I didnt mean to sound harsh when posting about your "miracle" as I stated. It sounded a little rough when I reread it. I really do feel like this is going to be a life long commitment for me, and for all of us and I just hope you make it. I read so many stories here about relapse, it scares me to death. And I have seen it with my son right before my eyes, and I afforded him doctors care and medication and he still chose drugs. He is doing good now...coming up on 6 months.
Oh, and about me being a moderator.....Im not. I am a survivor of opioid addiction. I am just another recovering addict here at A.S. I have been trying to taper off suboxone for over a year now and have not done it yet. I am on 1.5mg a day, and Ive been on sub for over 3 years.
And lastly, I have to address the pilot thing. People thank God instead of the pilot because God is in charge of everyone and everything...pilots included. lol!!! I have a good friend Mary that comes here and she is a Pagan, not a christian and I love her dearly. She is a recovering heroin addict, and took sub for a year and has been medication free and addiction free for 6 years. We can all get along even though we have different beliefs
Take care. Deanna
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Unread 06-18-2012, 12:45 PM   #17
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thanks for the video, i can relate to alot of things on it and it makes me glad that im on the right track now.
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