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Unread 07-07-2010, 05:51 PM   #1
jpotts
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Hello everyone,

Just a quick question, but I have been hearing alot about spitting out the extra saliva after we disolve our subs. I have really been lucky to not have any bad side affect, but the past 2 weeks I seem to be really itchy on my legs and mostly my arms, almost like bug bites but theres nothing there. The past 2 days I have tried spiting instead of swollowing to see if it helped at all.

So my question is when I spit it kind of chunky, not pieces but thick, am I not waiting long enough? or is that what it should look like? Also one more question has this happened to anyone else?

More than likely its the sun, dry skin or bug bites, but when I first started taking oxys and percs I would get itchy so thought maybe it could be related.

Well thanks and sorry for such a werid question
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Unread 07-07-2010, 09:28 PM   #2
lizzy1961
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Hi j,

First of all, there are NO weird questions. We discuss anything and everything here and there is NO question that is weird, or bad. If you are having an issue with anything, it's best to ask about it, because there is always someone that can relate to what you are going through.

What dose are you on? Sometimes side effects are due to your dose bing too high. Are you having any other side effects at all, like lack of energy or a foggy feeling?

Like you, when I was taking percocet and oxycontin, I was always itchy, so it may just be something that is related to opiates for you. I have not experienced being itchy on Sub, but I am pretty sure I have heard of a few others that have.

When you are spitting out the leftovers, you should wait until everything is dossolved. I am not quite sure if there should be a chunk left, because Sub in Canada is a little different and dissolves very quickly and there is really nothing left after it is dossolved, ( I have NO idea why Sub is different in Canada because it is made by the same company. Our Sub is also white with a strong, nice lemon flavour and comes in blister packages of 7 ).

So, when you spit out the leftovers, did you notice any difference? If this itchiness continues, you should mention it to your doctor next time you see him, just to rule out that it is NOT caused by anything else.

One more question, how long do you wait until you spit out the leftovers? Just asking because if there is any chunk left, you may possibly not have waited long enough to dissolve everything.

Hope this helps,
Lizzy
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Unread 07-07-2010, 09:54 PM   #3
jpotts
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Hi lizzy,

I read your posts often they are always very helpful, so wanted to thank you quickly!

I take 10-12mgs daily spilt 2 times a day. I feel pretty good physicly, mentaly a few issues, but it is getting better daily. I don't feel hazy or tired at all, even when I do feel tired I try to push through it.

I wait untill there are no pieces left then try to wait a few extra minutes then spit. It just seem like my spit is really thick. Who knows it could be I mentally feel like i'm wasting it{that addictive personality}.

It may be a little better, but I have been useing lotion also. But when I start itching I can't stop, sometimes I itch so bad I draw blood. It could also be from the sun, its been really hot, although I don't have a burn, but maybe just really dry.

Anyway thanks again for your help, I hope you have a great evening!
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Unread 07-08-2010, 12:53 AM   #4
lisa226969
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Hi jpotts- I just wanted to check in on ya, and see how you are doing. Are you still having itchy legs, and arms?? I, like both you and Lizzy, used to itch myself too, when I was taking percs, or any opiates. It was usually a "tell-tale" sign that I had taken too much. Have you noticed any difference after "spitting" out the saliva?

I too had to start spitting the saliva out, because of head aches, and itchy, burning eyes. I also noticed that it was really thick. However, it is important to make sure that it is completely dissolved, like Lizzy mentioned. Sometimes I have a harder time than others, when I try to dissolve the Sub. I actually took an 8mg Sub, and broke it in half, which gives you the 4mgs. Then, I took that and broke that in half, to give me 2mgs. Anyhow, when I broke it into 2mgs, I was able to dissolve it a little faster, and then I took the other 2mgs. As long as I try to maintain a steady amount, each day, I seem to do ok. I also started spitting just the saliva out, as I was dissolving, because it got SO thick, I couldn't hold it. And I am sure I probably ended up spitting some of the Bupe out.

If you are still itching, I would definately check with your doctor. Did you change laundry detergents lately? I know it sounds silly, but I am just trying to figure out why you are itching so badly. Just be careful with any lotions you try right now, especially if you have broken skin. Anything with perfumes, or dyes, can make it worse. Sorry I am not much help. If I think of anything else that might help, I will be sure to let you know. I will check back in and see how you are doing. I hope you fell better soon. Hang in there......Lisa
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Unread 07-08-2010, 07:12 PM   #5
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Hello Lisa and Lizzy,

Hello and I really hope you both are having a great day. As far as the itching its not any better, but really not that big of a problem. I didn't spit out the saliva today because I took it while driving to work. I really think it may be from the sun, its been really hot here. As far as the laundry soap or soaps I didn't change anything that was what I was thinking to.

It gets really bad at night maybe cause I think about it more. During the day it doesn't bother me much.

Hope you both have a good day! Stay cool, its so hot here 95 degrees!
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Unread 07-08-2010, 09:33 PM   #6
lisa226969
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Hi jpotts- I hate to hear that you are still dealing with the itching. I also completely understand it being worse at night. That is when we are "shutting" down for the night, and our minds are no longer occupied with the challenges of daily life. We become more aware of things that we tend to NOT think about during the day.

The heat is unreal right now. Almost everyone I have spoken to, even in different parts of the country are saying how HOT it is right now. The humidity here has just about took me over the edge. I don't know if you have ever tried it, but, our health food store sells Aloe Vera, in liquid form, and I keep a spray bottle of it in the fridge. Anyhow....anytime one of us has been out in the sun, we use the Aloe. It really helps when it is this hot out. I spray it on any place that is irritated. Just a thought. That is why I tossed out the idea of you possibly changing detergents..because I tried a new laundry detergent, one time, cause it was cheaper that my usual brand...OH WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE. I never dreamed something that minor, would cause such major issues. I sure hope you start to feel better. Once again, thanks for everything...take care, and keep in touch...Lisa
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Unread 07-09-2010, 10:25 AM   #7
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For the itching there is an OTC cream that once was prescription only, it's called clortrimizole. Even a cortisone cream will help. I get it as well but it's not from the sub it's because of this other health problem I have and in addition I love to work in the garden and (oh lucky me) came across some sumac (sp) that I didn't see and yep all over me. The clortrimazole is pretty strong stuff, ask your Doctor or pharmacy, and the cortisone cream is good for healing and the itch.
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Unread 07-13-2010, 05:23 PM   #8
nikkigz1985
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try this i dissolve it under my tongue but i let my spit build up and dont swallow the whole time its dissolving and when its all dissolved swallow it down with a drink
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Unread 01-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #9
Xtrasmall73
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Hello Everyone. Somewhere I read on here that if You spit out early, Then really what Your doing is getting all the Buprenorphine (The Opiate) but Your basically spitting out the Naloxone (The medicine that keeps You from "craving") From what I've read,The Naloxone takes longer to disolve the the Buprenorphine.Basically Your just unintentionally taking a Subutex instead of a Suboxone.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtrasmall73 View Post
Hello Everyone. Somewhere I read on here that if You spit out early, Then really what Your doing is getting all the Buprenorphine (The Opiate) but Your basically spitting out the Naloxone (The medicine that keeps You from "craving") From what I've read,The Naloxone takes longer to disolve the the Buprenorphine.Basically Your just unintentionally taking a Subutex instead of a Suboxone.
Hi Xtrasmall, welcome. the naloxone is considered 'clinically insignificant' unless it's injected. It's only in the Suboxone to deter IV injection misuse. It's actually the buprenorphine itself that stops cravings and withdrawals and blocks other opiates from reaching the receptors.

The naloxone has very poor bioavailability both sublingually and, if swallowed, in the GI tract. Naloxone is Narcan which is injected to bring people back from opiate overdoses.

Theoretically, if the film or tablet is dissolved, then it's pretty safe to spit out the saliva is someone doesn't want to swallow it. Some people do that to avoid getting naloxone into their systems if they are allergic to it.

Here's some links that help explain it:
"How Buprenorphine Works"
http://addictionsurvivors.org/vbulle..._subscriptions

"What is the Naloxone for?"
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=64

Applied Pharmacology of Buprenorphine and Abuse Potential (along with other information):
http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/about.html

From "Abuse Potential" in that link:
Naloxone is added to buprenorphine to decrease the likelihood of diversion and abuse of the combination product. Sublingual buprenorphine has moderate bioavailability, while sublingual naloxone has poor bioavailability. Thus, when the buprenorphine/naloxone tablet is taken in sublingual form, the buprenorphine opioid agonist effect predominates, and the naloxone does not precipitate opioid withdrawal in the opioid-addicted user.

Naloxone via the parenteral route, however, has good bioavailability. If the sublingual buprenorphine/naloxone tablets are crushed and injected by an opioid-addicted individual, the naloxone effect predominates and can precipitate the opioid withdrawal syndrome.


I hope that helps.

Nancy
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Unread 01-20-2013, 04:43 PM   #11
asouth32
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Well I dont know if any of you guys had this problem when you was on opiates, but when I would take a Lortab or whatever, I got the itches. My nose felt like it had poison ivy on it and I couldnt scratch it off quick enough. Being that Suboxone is in itself a opiate, I still have this problem. Its not so bad now that I am on a lower dose, BUT if I was to take both of my 8mg strips at once, I would get the itches again.
Some people get the itches when they take pain pills, not sure why but I know that I have done it and my husband has done it when he was on Lortab's for his foot.
NOW, you might have a allergic reaction to something that you have switched in the house maybe? I cant be around that orange cleaner because my nose closes up and my face gets puffy and red. I cant smell it, but I KNOW when I am around it because I get all out of whack.
The air is dry around here too and there is many factors with dry skin making you itch and other things like that.
I honestly think that it might be the pain pill itches. Or well, the Suboxone itches. I was on three a day at one point, and for a few days I did take three a day and I felt like I was going to tear my nose off my face. I wasnt high, but I still had those opiate itchies.
If you are spitting out the Naloxone, which is basically what you are spitting if its just spit and nothing chunky or thick you should be fine. If it doesnt bother you to swallow the rest of it, that is what I would just do is swallow all of it.
And I dont know where yall are at, but its freaking chilly outside here right now. Its supposed to be 32 here tomorrow and 11 tomorrow night, but this is my kind of weather. It allows me to wear my winter hats and my hand made gloves hehe.
I crochet pretty much everything just for this time of the year, and the colder that it gets the more stylish I get hehe. I can make blankets, ponchos, gloves, scarves basically anything for the cold weather.
However, Im rambling, but that is my best guess for the itching. My mother does that and I try to tell her but she doesnt listen to me about the pain pill itching. I dont know if its an allegic reaction to something in the makeup of the Suboxone or pain pills, but I know if I take alot of Sub at once it starts it up.
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Unread 05-06-2013, 09:51 PM   #12
CaymanGt2
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I was thinking try to take an anti- histamine(sp?). Whatever is from that may help, right?
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Unread 12-07-2016, 07:03 PM   #13
RTR1408
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If the naloxone is innate as you say it is then why suggest that the excess be spit out? If it's innate in suboxone then why suggest switching to subutex. I have several crazy symptoms...heart palps, anxiety, depression, sweating, felling faint, dizziness, etc. I agree that it's probably from the naloxone but I find it hard to believe that it is relatively innate...otherwise why not tell people hey you can't be sensitive to naloxone because you the naloxone won't be active if taken as prescribed and not injected...by telling people to spit or switch it sounds like you do receive the naloxone...I'm confused
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Unread 12-07-2016, 07:12 PM   #14
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Furthermore if the bioavailability is low in the gi tract then why not swallow it anyway?
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Unread 12-07-2016, 09:43 PM   #15
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Hi RTR1408, welcome. Subutex had only buprenorphine - no naloxone. Buprenorphine is the active ingredient in Suboxone; the naloxone was put into the formulation to try to deter IV misuse of the Suboxone. When injected, the naloxone can cause precipitated withdrawals. When it's sublingual or swallowed, because of the poor bioavailability, it doesn't cause precipitated withdrawals - thus it being deemed 'clinically insignificant'. But if someone is allergic to it, spitting it out seemed to help instead of swallowing it, limiting the contact with the naloxone as much as possible. For some it didn't work because they were more hypersensitive than others.

The biggest problem is that many doctors would not prescribe the bupe only formulation because the naloxone wasn't present to deter misuse. So people who were allergic to the naloxone were kind of stuck with Suboxone only, unfortunately, and had to try to find ways to alleviate the allergic symptoms. I hope that helps.

If I may ask, what dose are you currently taking and for how long have you been on that dose. Some of the symptoms you mention - particularly depression, anxiety, sweating - might be from too high of a dose.

Nancy
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Unread 12-08-2016, 12:40 PM   #16
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4mg...I understand how it works and I understand that there is a difference in suboxone and subutex. The difference is the naloxone. I believe the naloxone is what causes the majority of the symptoms and when people are told to switch to subutex because of the sensitivity to naloxone I believe that's true. I have nearly the entire laundry list of symptoms...symptoms I never had before suboxone...it has to be because of the naloxone but I refuse to believe that the naloxone is only active if you use it interveneously otherwise it wouldn't matter what you got subutex or suboxone. Also is the naloxone is innate and I take a whole bunch of opiates then I take suboxone will I be in precipitated withdrawal? That's not something I'm gonna do but if I did I would go into withdrawal because of the naloxone in the suboxone. I would kill to switch to subutex but nobody will switch...I bet you I've had 90% of the symptoms on the list on the brochure packet on suboxone. My point to all this is I don't understand why people are being told to spit it when they have a headache or spit it when they're having symptoms listed on the box of possible side effects. If the naloxone is so innate I might as well stay with suboxone because they sound the same...I know they aren't but all these threads I read telling people that the naloxone is innate cannot be true
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Unread 12-08-2016, 01:41 PM   #17
NancyB
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How long have you been at 4mg?

The point of spitting out the saliva is to lessen the amount of naloxone that gets into the system by swallowing it. That has helped a lot of people who used to swallow the saliva because it lessened the allergic symptoms for them (headaches, hives, flushing, sweating).

I apologize, but I'm not understanding what you mean by 'innate' when referring to naloxone.

If you took buprenorphine (with or without naloxone) too soon after taking opiates, you would likely go into precipitated withdrawals. It's the buprenorphine that causes it - not the naloxone - unless you injected the naloxone. That's why people have to be in mild to moderate withdrawals before starting bupe:
https://naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf

To precipitate withdrawals using naloxone, the naloxone needs to be injected or sprayed into the nose - naloxone is narcan that is used to reverse opioid overdoses.

It's being brought up to try because of what you've said - not many doctors allow people to take the buprenorphine only product. And if someone is allergic to the naloxone, if it works, then that's a huge help instead of suffering with those symptoms.

Nancy
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Unread 12-20-2016, 06:38 PM   #18
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i never realized that my hot flashed could possibly be from the use of suboxone i really thought i had some type of hormonal issues. LOL but when i think back this has been going on since starting it. Headaches is another. And feeling fatigued but i would rather have these occasional problems than suffer with the withdrawls for sure.
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Unread 12-28-2016, 08:26 AM   #19
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Hi Jpotts!! No question is a dumb question except for the one hat is not asked!! I also have felt itchy at times. Nothing that has made me uncomfortable. Also i did spit the saliva out at first because it upset my stomach but mow it is no bother to swallow it. Hope this helps and good luck!! Thanks!! -Mayt
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