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Unread 01-25-2011, 02:42 PM   #13
Carlos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toms View Post
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the 12 steps. If it isn't for you, what is the point of picking at it?


Because I am not too sure that it is really good for anybody. We keep hearing. If it isn't for you? It may be good for someone else. I use to believe that too. We have had lot of answers but we do not have many results do we? We have grate explanations why we do not get better. Many of the things that we think are true about treatment for alcohol and a drug is what we have been told by 12 Step treatment centers. All I am asking is to start to question it. That is the way science and treatment results get better.

Another answer to your question is: Because everything in the world gets to be question, like you just asked me a question about my reasons. I could say, if you do not understand what I am saying, why are you asking me? But I am civil enough unlike twelve steppers that it you ask them a question. They ask you sarcastically how long you being clean? or how many times you being to treatment? As if it was a relevant issue. At the same time manage not to answer your question. I think that you have the right to ask questions without getting and intimidating sarcastic answer. If they do not know the answer, then they should shot up, rather than insult the patients.

Simply because we know very little about science. The twelve steps make people think that they become amateur psychologist and know all kinds of things that are not true. And when you hear members or 12 Step staff members why else? Because they are a dominant group that is keeping real treatment from coming to terms. It is archaic, amateur and lead people into believe that they are getting a service that they do not. Members become abstinence and they think that now automatically they become experts at

The 12 Steps simply does not work and give people the illusion that they are getting something for nothing. Unfortunately our brains have a tendency to lie to ourselves, and there is a whole bunch reasons I have difficuties explain to you. but I hope that you are tolerant enough to put up with some of what I am saying. I think you are asking because you really want to know, although perhaps annoyse you a little.

Again, we have the right to get treatment that has been scientifically, and rigorously study empirically. In the same way all other medical treatment from an antibiotic, surgery, x ray, anything imagened has in medical treatment has gone true rigourus testing .

Imagine going to a doctor for an infection and he ask you to start working the steps. You do not realized it but there is a lot of people being harm for not getting appropriet treatment. Is call medical error, look it up.
Read the steps, no of them give you an idea about how to become abstinense from alcohol or drugs. It is about inductrinating you to get a "Spiritual Awakening" (as the results of this steps)

But let me tell you something, I am not just down about the 12 Step. I am down at anyone in my profession that keeps making all kinds of grandiose claims and spit out information that are not true and it is based on any scientific methodology. I think I have the right to protect the patients and the profession. Don't you think you have the right to good treatment based on fact not on religion? You have been buying everything you know at face value, and I am asking for you to become an educated consumer and start question everything, I mean everything that have been told to you in the past 30 years about substance abuse treatment and drug education. Some things are accurate, but you will really be surprise how much garbage they have been telling us and we have been buying at face value.

And this so call "professionals" give a bad name to those that are working real hard and studying their scientific journals to make sure they can provide us with the best service they can. While this lazy asses, have not read a Scientific Journal of their professions since the left college. They think that they have some kind of trained intuition or hunches that gives them the right to make up shit and call it treatment, whether it harms the patient or not. We are being ripped off and you do not know it.

But the may reason I an picking at this is because I think you deserve and answer worthwhile to considered.

Find out the characteristics of pseudoscience and beging to look at the 12Steps as a treatment protocol and then tell me if it does not meet chritieria.

Hope you understand what I am saying. Trust me I am not bitching just for bitching. I am concern for all of us in treatment.
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